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(Link thanks to LC Buck)

(CNSNews.com) - A new ruling from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is prompting cries of judicial activism.

On Wednesday the court dismissed a lawsuit brought by California parents who were outraged over a sex survey given to public school students in the first, third and fifth grades.

His Majesty can certainly see where asking 6 and 7-year-olds about sex might be cause for outrage. As a matter of fact, if His Steyrness were ever to find out that the Heirs had come home from 1st grade after being cross-examined about their private parts and how many times they played with themselves, he believes that “outrage” would be an exceedingly mild way of describing his resulting state of mind. But there’d be a few job openings at the local school immediately thereafter. Once the funerals were out of the way, that is.

Among other things, the survey administered by the Palmdale School District asked children if they ever thought about having sex or touching other people’s “private parts” and whether they could “stop thinking about having sex.”

All fantastically relevant and important things to ask a 7-year-old, to be sure. If you’re the kind of teacher that would like to hang out with Scott Kiddy Diddle Ritter, that is.

The parents argued that they — not the public schools — have the sole right “to control the upbringing of their children by introducing them to matters of and relating to sex.”

…and in this they are, sadly, mistaken. Once you hand over your kids to the brainwashing centrals that are our publik skools, you effectively waive all rights regarding your young’uns. It shouldn’t be that way, seeing as how you too are footing the bill for the “No Teacher’s Salary Left Behind” Act, but that’s the way it is. This is one of the many reasons why His Rottieness supports school vouchers. Let the parents decide where to send their kids, then watch the publik skool “teachers” sit around and throw spit balls at each other in empty classrooms.

Until then, can you say “homeschool?”

We knew you could.

But on Wednesday, a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit dismissed the case, saying, “There is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children…Parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students.”

Judge Stephen Reinhardt, writing for the panel, said “no such specific right can be found in the deep roots of the nation’s history and tradition or implied in the concept of ordered liberty.”

It’s truly amazing, isn’t it? They can somehow easily find non-existent “rights” to kill unborn children or “rights” to deny children the right to pray in school (in spite of the fact that the Constitution actually is very clear on the subject of “free exercise of religion”), but they can’t find a single miasma of a penumbra of an emission suggesting that maybe parents should have a say in whether or not their kids can be introduced to fisting at the tender age of 10. One might almost suspect them of having an agenda.

“Anyone who wonders why pro-family organizations like ours have been so concerned about activist courts only has to look at this case,” said a spokesman for Focus on the Family.

Carrie Gordon Earll, an issues analyst with Focus on the Family Action, called the ruling “one of the most abhorrent examples of judicial tyranny in American history.

“The 9th Circuit did more than rule against parents who were upset that their elementary-school-aged children were being asked explicit questions about sex in class. They told all parents they have no right to protest what public schools tell their children.”

And that’s exactly it. Look at that last sentence once again, then look at the “ruling” of the 9th Circus Junta of Judicial Tyranny again. They didn’t just leave it at surveys about sex for 7-year-olds, they actually issued a blanket ruling stating, unequivocally, that parents have no rights whatsoever when it comes to what their children are being “taught” in skool!

What those black-robed judicial tyrants are decreeing has nothing to do with schools, they’re degenerate madrassahs of liberalism.

Anything goes, and you have no say whatsoever when it comes to what your kid is exposed to.

You’ll just have to shut up and like it, but if your 7-year-old is quietly praying while “teacher” instructs her in how to properly administer a blowjob or how to fist her friends, she’ll be expelled for violating the mythical “separation of church and state.”

Judge. Rope. Tree.

Some assembly required.

And it’s loooooong overdue.

I just can’t WAIT to see those degenerate sickos dangling in the wind, excrement from their flapping sphincters slithering down their scrawny legs.

55 Responses to “More Judicial Activism from the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals”
  1. Unregistered Comment by hitnruni95 UNITED STATES

    In fairness, if “common sense” and “parental rights” were the best the plaintiff’s lawyers could come up with…well, they should have known that wasn’t going to fly. The Federal Government is not familiar with either of those concepts, certainly not the Ninth Circus Court.

    I wonder why Child Abductive Services and the like wasn’t used in the argument. If an obese black woman with 2 years of City Community College can be a social worker and tell me how to raise my kids and can abduct them if I don’t comply, surely the sanctity of children must have some value that has to be respected.

  2. Apollyon Comment by Apollyon UNITED STATES

    Outrage doesn’t even describe what I felt reading this. I live in this fucking banana republic of demented hippies and depraved socialists called California. I would probably beat the shit of the teacher to the point just under death if this was done to my child. I’m not interested in lawsuits; they’re going to literally feel my rage. Then I would hunt down the principal and drag him/her by the hair naked while repeatedly kicking them in the face and teeth. Then I would chain this toothless dreg to a tree by a major street and with a permanent marker write on their naked beaten body: “This liberal piece of shit taught first grade children about sex and asked if they thought about touching other people’s private parts.”

    The parents that brought the lawsuit obviously should have won. The 9th Circus Court of Appeals is the most overturned court in the land. It should be bombed. Also Ahhnolds many initiatives, especially the tenure one, are critical.

    Californians:

    YES on73
    YES on74
    YES on75
    YES on76
    YES on77

    FUCK THE SOCIALIST PIGS!!!!

  3. Unregistered Comment by Orion UNITED STATES

    This has GOT to be someone’s idea of a sick joke.

    IT’s a crime to provide ‘age-inappropriate material to minors’…And that’s surely what this would have been.

    Orion

  4. Unregistered Comment by JakeTheSnake UNITED STATES

    It’s for exactly this reason that I homeschool my son. He got one year of gubmint indoctrination. Kindergarten. That’s it. They start working on your kids the second you hand them over to them. What’s yours is not yours, but everyone’s. That kind of crap. I pulled him out 4 years ago and started homeschooling him. He’s now 9, reading at high school level. And, is studying computer animation, along with his regular curriculum. I highly recommend it. Public schools today aint what they used to be when we were younger.

  5. Unregistered Comment by Krondax UNITED STATES

    I agree totally with Orion. Might as well put on a XXX movie in health class to teach sex ed the way that these things are going.

    And why the fuck did some pervs get elected to the 9th..oh waith, you can smell the doo from a mile away, its covered so thick on their faces from the ass kissing they ahve been doing to the dems.

    However, i dont think that Hanging’s good enough for them. and if i wasnt so tired, i woudl think of something else.

  6. Unregistered Comment by Rowane UNITED STATES

    Judge. Rope. Tree.

    Haha, I’d rather see a lot of cases of Judge…crosshairs…fire.

    If it keeps going like this I predict that this will start happening soon, either that or a lot of teachers buying the farm from interfering with a family’s moral structure.

  7. Unregistered Comment by brnko UNITED STATES

    First, add my seething outrage to the mass of anger over this. This is a crime against innocence. Those who perpetrated this act are vile and deserve a most severe punishment. This is a despicable siezure of power over the lives of little children, and I believe it has a dark, satanic purpose…

    In explaining, I must say that I believe the core morality of a nation is mostly determined by women. This does not diminish the contribution of men, but works in this way: If women remain virtuous, and demand morality and strength from men, then men will strive for greatness. If, however, women are ‘feminized’ (that is, weakened by leftist treachery), and abhor decent and strong men, then many young males will be tempted into being weak creatures in order to obtain the approval (i.e. easy sex) of the morally damaged females (can you imagine the pathetic twits from Green Day having any success 100 years ago?). Some men of honor will never stoop to this; but a life of limited opportunity for companionship and marriage will dissuade many if not most. In the end, frivolity and deviance win. Some women of strength and virtue will also resist, but these will be called “traitors” and “slaves of men”. At that point, a civilization is weak and ripe for destruction by a determined barbaric foe (i.e. islam). I believe that, due to public school’s indoctrination into the leftist deviant culture, many women do not see the power that they actually have in being women. If they demand strength from men, we will strive to be strong. And no strong man desires a timid, submissive, burka-wearing slave. He desires a partner. This assault on children, a true, honest-to-God attack on them, especially girls, is the left’s way to destroy that final spiritual bond that the Soviets couldn’t quite kill: the eternal bond between man and woman. They convince children that “strength” and “liberation” are found in the abortion clinic and the beds (or cars) of dozens of “lovers”. Marriage between man and woman is a “capitalist oppression”. The Church discourages pre-marital sex because it is a “cheauvinistic oppressor”. And when life is worthless (sex loses its powerful beauty, babies are considered parasites, the Church is banned as an institution of hate, men must be weak leftist creatures to have any chance for sexual relations, everything capitalistic or Christian is a hate crime) then there shall remain only one saviour - the State. I believe this sexualizing of children, and the parallel indoctrination into the “sex without thought or consequence” ideology of the left is more than a desire for easy prey; I believe it is a method of destroying the institutions that have traditionally opposed the Total State.
    Of course, there is never any mention of the loss of intimacy from frivolous sex, the diseases, the murdered unborn, the physical and psychological devestation from abortion, the breast cancer link, the risks of sexual predators and psychopaths, date rape drugs and enormous loss of self esteem. But life, liberty and happiness never mattered to the left; only the destruction of virtue and the triumph of the “vanguard elite”

  8. Unregistered Comment by NewMexican UNITED STATES

    This is…this is so far beyond the pale I don’t have a word for it.

    This is dancing on the line between “time to work within the system” and “time to start shooting people”.

    If anyone involved in this decision ever sleeps again, it can only be credited to the seemingly unlimited stupidity of leftists. I’m neither a parent nor a Californian, and I’m tempted to take a knife for a very brief discussion with each of them.

  9. Unregistered Comment by LCkschlenker UNITED STATES

    brnko,
    Your reasoning sounds like what the Islamofascists use to stick burkas on women. I am vastly insulted, both as a woman and the mother of three young women, that you think every ill of the world should be laid at the feet of females.

    You are also implying that men can’t be trusted to be virtuous, that their personal behavior is the result of their genital equipment. Tell me, why aren’t you ticked off at men who drop their pants for bimbos and sluts? Aren’t these men sluts and bimbos too?

    I am no radical feminist. I am a long time married conservative Republican ex-4H leader and mother. I also happen to believe in PERSONAL responsibility. If someone screws up, it is their own damn fault, no one else’s. That means both men and women.

    I hate it when someone tries to tell me how to behave. My PARENTS raised me, thank you.

    Which brings us back to the topic at hand:
    As to this decision of the 9th Circus Court, I hope the parents have the funding to take this beyond that court. Though the 9th did not find that parents have a right to the teaching of their children, they also haven’t really explained how the state does have the right of teaching the children. (The brief says, in essence, that the state has a vested interest in the education of the future citizen. It doesn’t explain how the state came to get this right or where it is stated in the Constitution that the state’s right supercedes that of the parents.)

    Since this isn’t in the Constitution, I don’t think the Roberts Court will allow this ruling to stand.

  10. Unregistered Comment by LC Sterm26 UNITED STATES

    I printed this out to show my co-workers….a bunch of apolitcal drones…and they didn’t understand my outrage. I try to be an optimist, but today I fear for America.

    I’ve seen on some righty blogs that this decision, while repugnant, is actually “constitutional”. This is why I bang my head against the wall almost every night. I’m forced by circumstance to send my daughter to public school, but I do my damdest to make sure that she’s not indoctrinated…the 9th Circuit just said that my efforts are unconstitutional.

    THIS is why we need “right wing” justices on the Supreme Court.

  11. Unregistered Comment by Y2Dray CANADA

    Just out of curiosity, I would like to see that “questionnaire” before I pass judgement of my own.

    Sex education is a double-edged sword: on one hand, kids would like to know where they come from, and teens would like to know how to deal with it (and avoid pregnancy); on the other - it could be hijacked by “special interests” to propagate and perpetuate certain agendas (watch eMpTyV to find out).

    By the looks of it, the ACLU must be pwning the 9th Court in this case. Are they planning to lower the consent age to 14 (as in Canada) as well? God forbid.

    As for brnko - relax. Have a beer. Saner headcases shall prevail.

    Yankee Two Delta

  12. Unregistered Comment by NewMexican UNITED STATES

    “…You are also implying that men can’t be trusted to be virtuous, that their personal behavior is the result of their genital equipment. Tell me, why aren’t you ticked off at men who drop their pants for bimbos and sluts? Aren’t these men sluts and bimbos too?…
    Comment by LCkschlenker — November 4, 2005 @ 3:32 am”

    I read that post not so much as absolving men of responsibility for their actions as stating that long-term, the womens’ choices will have more impact on the actions of the next generation.

    The assumption behind it is that virtuous women inspire men to be virtuous, but not vice-versa. If this is true, if a disporportionally large number of men behave virtuously, they suffer for it whereas a change in the porportion of virtuous women does not hurt them, since the men will respond to meet the need. This in turn would tend to make any efforts to improve “men” as a whole self-limiting, since the more men changed the less chance there would be for any particular virtuous male to find a partner, and simultaneously the greater the chances would be that a non-virtuous male would be able to find a partner or partners. This doesn’t absolve any given individual of responsibility, but it would mean that women had a greater effect on long-term morality in a culture as a whole.

    I’m not sure I agree with that assumption in the absolute sense. In our time and culture, I would say that because young women are taught that any virtuous male is actually a controling chauvanist whose actions somehow violate all womens’ freedom there is some validity, but I don’t know that the principle would apply without the femenist pressures for women to reject the virtuous philosophy, so to speak.

  13. LCBrendan Comment by LCBrendan AUSTRALIA

    I read that post not so much as absolving men of responsibility for their actions as stating that long-term, the womens’ choices will have more impact on the actions of the next generation.

    I think what is lost on the ACLU , and many others, is that we are all responsible for our choices..man or woman regardless.

    Fifty years ago the pendulum swung one way, now it comes back the other..somewhere in the middle there is balance.

    The hard part is finding it…and knowing what that balance means.

    Waxing a little philosophical tonight:)

  14. Unregistered Comment by purrfect_mamma UNITED STATES

    To brnko,

    To some extent, we are all limited by our biology and to that extent you have a point.

    But we are attempting to be civilized, not animals. Therefore, we must each be responsible for our actions.

    I went to high school when the responsibility for virtue WAS the girl’s responsibility. The upshot was that boys wanted to date bad girls and wanted to marry good girls. And girls were warned not to put out because boys would not buy the cow if the milk was free. But even though she was the same tender age as her boyfriend, it was forgiven for him to pressure her to have sex but not okay for her to give in. And if she got pregnant, it was her problem, she was the slut. The boy was rarely punished, but if he was, the punishment was he had to marry the cow. And boys could date the bad girls and then when they were ready to marry, could marry a good girl and be washed clean. While a bad girl generally was considered a bad girl forever.

    The solution is to teach girls respect for themselves. That sexuality is a gift to girls as well as to boys (as opposed to the cute but trite idea that a girl’s virginity is a present to her husband on their wedding night), but that gift has a purpose and should not taken for granted or abused. That girls have a right to self-determination as well as boys, but that having children too early and without a husband will limit their choices and make it very difficult to achieve their dreams.

    Boys need to be taught the same thing. They also need to be taught that women are not sex objects but are people in the world just like boys. Some of the women they meet may be girlfriends or lovers and probably one of them will be their wife. The rest will be friends, co-workers, neighbors, whatever, but they are not pleasure objects created for men’s amusement and boys who flock to the bad girls are just as bad as the girls.

  15. Unregistered Comment by tripleneck UNITED STATES

    Git ‘em, yer Majesty!!!

  16. Unregistered Comment by NewMexican UNITED STATES

    “Boys need to be taught the same thing. They also need to be taught that women are not sex objects but are people in the world just like boys. Some of the women they meet may be girlfriends or lovers and probably one of them will be their wife. The rest will be friends, co-workers, neighbors, whatever, but they are not pleasure objects created for men’s amusement and boys who flock to the bad girls are just as bad as the girls.

    Comment by purrfect_mamma — November 4, 2005 @ 5:31 am”

    The problem with that is that it’s exactly the same line that feminists use now. It’s used as an excuse for “sexual liberation”, and the result is that it’s now meaningless. Guys look at who’s whining about the objectification of women and put that saying in the mental file marked “hypocritical bullshit”. The only acknowledgement this kind of statment gets now is from guys who decide that it’s worth playing along with the bullshit to get laid, which isn’t exactly the response you have in mind if your goal was actually to foster respect between men and women.

    Once that happens, the only “cure” is women worthy of respect. And, as brnko said, not so many women seem to be stepping up. I mean, for fuck’s sake, Oprah is actually considered a role model for women. How sad is that?

  17. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil UNITED STATES

    Parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students

    Amazing! “Due Process” is what I named my 12 gauge Browning, and “Privacy” is my pet name for the .357! (”Watering can” is what I call the .45.)

    How do they do it?

    Now, come try this shit in Virginia…

  18. LC Gutshot Comment by LC Gutshot UNITED STATES

    This is getting so repetitive. What is it going to take for our elected representation to grow some cherries and excise this cancerous blob from our country?

    The author of that rejection, Stephen Reinhardt, has an interesting history. Not only does he find ways to use the “right to privacy” only when convenient to his own agenda, he finds ways to strike down absolute rights defined in the Bill of Rights, for instance, the 2nd Amendment

    Sorry Misha, no matter how fulfilling a lynching would be, I’d rather see him suffer more. I think he should be tied to a tree, while the Bible is read to him verse-by-verse. For a liberal, that would be the highest form of torture imaginable!

    OK, you want to see a hanging…we’ll let you do it after the Bible reading. We’ll call you when we start Revelation.

  19. Unregistered Comment by purrfect_mamma UNITED STATES

    New Mexican,

    Just because an argument is used by people with whom you disagree (including feminists like me) does not mean it is incorrect. That’s an ad hominem argument and is a logical fallacy.

    Of course part of the cure is women worthy of respect. My argument is the rest of the cure is that men need to worthy of respect as well and not use the lack of virtue of some women as an excuse to be unvirtuous themselves.
    Brnko’s argument presumes that either men can’t control their urges or shouldn’t be expected to when a willing woman is around. Just as a girl should say “no” to a boy who is pressuring her, the boy shouldn’t be pressuring her in the first place and he should say “no” if a girl pressures him. It takes two people to have sex. If women don’t step up to be virtuous, but men do, haven’t we solved the problem?

    And why should every woman be considered unworthy until she is “tested” and found worthy. Girls should not have to be taught that every boy is going to pressure her to have sex and it is her job to fend off his urges and if she doesn’t, she is unvirtuous and he was just doing what boys do. Boys should be taught that it is not okay to pressure girls to have sex or to accept it when offered. Sex is way too powerful to put that all the pressure for virtue on one person, especially a teenage girl. If we expect both the boy and the girl to be “virtuous,” then if one is weak on one occasion, the other can be strong and vice versa. But if they both give in to the weakness, they are equally at fault.

    I don’t like where we are. But where we were wasn’t so great either, because it objectified women and relieved men of responsibility and, worse yet, assumed men are incapable of virtue or self-control. And it didn’t really stop pre-marital sex. If you don’t believe me, compare birthdates and wedding dates for your family in the 50s and 60s–there will probably be a few that are suspiciously close together. If we’re going to try to fix things, why not try for a better solution?

  20. TexanPatriot78 Comment by TexanPatriot78 UNITED STATES

    OK, here’s my take on this freakshow ruling by the courts. It comes down to standards and how liberals want none but their own.

    Here’s my FISKING of the 9th Jerkit Court of Shlameels.

    LET’S TALK ABOUT SEX, BUT NOT WITH PARENTS
    LINK: http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/11/2/22125/7274

    “There is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children.” The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which has previously ruled that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional, has again thrust a dagger into the heart of the American way of life — and has this time attacked the very institution which has kept the foundation of this country secure — the family.

    Well, the Ninth Jerkit Court of Shlameels, or Circus Court is at it again. When do they not hear a controversial and loaded case? But, for once, it’s not ruling against God and Country. This one is targeted at your kids….

    Fields v. Palmdale School Dist., — F.3d– (9th Cir. 2005), was decided today by the court. In that case, parents sued the Palmdale School District for giving a survey, which included ten questions of a sexual nature, to students between the ages of seven and ten.
    The School District sent a note home to parents asking for parental consent to engage their children in a survey of early trauma. The survey was prepared by Kristi Seymour, a volunteer “mental health counselor” at Mesquite Elementary School while she was enrolled in a master’s degree program at the California School of Professional Psychology. The School District, collaborating with the School of Psychology and Seymour, developed and administered the questionnaire to first, third, and fifth grade students. While parents were informed that the survey would cover “baseline . . . exposure to early trauma (for example, violence),” it specifically did not mention sex. In fact, the survey asked seven year olds to “rate the following activities” among which were these:
    Read on . . .

    Nov 2nd, 2005: 22:01:25
    8. Touching my private parts too much
    17. Thinking about having sex
    22. Thinking about touching other people’s private parts
    23. Thinking about sex when I don’t want to
    26. Washing myself because I feel dirty on the inside
    34. Not trusting people because they might want sex
    40. Getting scared or upset when I think about sex
    44. Having sex feelings in my body
    47. Can’t stop thinking about sex
    54. Getting upset when people talk about sex

    Seven year olds were asked these questions.

    Seven year olds? Frickin seven year olds? OK, in junior high, it’s time for THE TALK, but seven? WTF are these liberals thinking? Don’t kids get confused enough without introducing graphic terms and questions about sex? And what if some of the kids had been molested? Ready to open that can of worms?

    Another reason why the state ought not to play nanny with our kids. I’d sooner trust that British nanny with the kid shaking perclivity over these idiots. And this ruling, is from the Board and School District. I do wonder which promiscous or twisted liberal parent thought this was a good idea.

    OK, in Kindergarten Cop, a kid said; “Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina.” That was funny at the time, but like then, Arnie is not laughing. Many parents are not laughing. And I don’t blame them. Shall we let the teachers explain intercourse and mid-coitis to der kinder also?

    The parents of the children learned of the survey questions when their children started telling them about the survey. Horrified, the parents complained to the school, arguing that had they know the true nature of the survey, they would have never offered their consent.

    You’d be pissed off also, but the state would never admit fault. They’re perfect, right? (chuckling)

    The school district rebuffed the parents, and the parents sued.

    About time the parents woke up and did something. And who does the school board think it is? True, we entrust bureaucrats to make teachers play second parent. But when that trust is breached, there is a time and place for reform or cleaning house in the education system. Where was the ACLU for the parents, this time? People for the American Way? No comment, again….

    The trial court rejected the parents arguments and today, in stunning language, the Ninth Circuit affirmed the rejection.

    What a shock, the Marxist Kangaroo Court ruled for the state. This is the same court that ruled against the Pledge of Allegiance, One Nation Under God, protects terrorists, cop killers, and pedophiles. What a fine bunch Clinton appointed in his tenure….

    In fact, the Ninth Circuit, in its opinion stated
    The district court dismissed the federal causes of action

    “for failure to state a claim upon which relief could be granted and dismissed the state claims without prejudice to their right to re-file in state court. We agree, and hold that there is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children, either independent of their right to direct the upbringing and education of their children or encompassed by it. “

    Translated: We’re taking over and there’s nothing you can do about it. We don’t want em to say God, we don’t want patriotism, and we want the state to educate them on sex and other private acts of intimacy……

    “We also hold that parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students.”

    Translated: If we want to, we reject your rights. Granted, you birthed and are raising the kids, but they are ours now. And you may not challenge your own school board, which you voted for in the elections. You cannot change it, since you the people are under us, the mighty court.

    Son of Jor-El, kneel before Zod! Says the court. Snootchie Bootchies! Hehehe. Bunch of Potheads…..

    Interestingly, while the court ruled that parents have no “right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which children might be exposed,” the public schools, according to the Ninth Circuit, can only expose children to sex. Exposing children to prayer or the Pledge of Allegiance would indoctrinate the children unfairly.

    OK, it’s fine to make kids learn what fellatio, reacharound, and other weird crap is, but they cannot say ONE NATION UNDER G-D! What the fuck is wrong with these shitbags? Are they so stupid and so callous to throw a blatant double standard and think we WILL NOT challenge it?

    More hypocrisy. It’s fine to expose them to sex and weirdo behavior, but God forbid we let them see or talk about God, or patriotism. Idiots. Roland Freisler and Judge Vishinsky would be proud of these kangaroo socialist judges. Rubber stamps for the time warp stuck hippies and rapists of this country.

    Indoctrinate unfairly? So Christian and conservative Orthodox kids ought to be “fairly exposed” to homosexuality which goes against their own private families and religious teaching? Well, these morons on the 9th Circus will run out of steam, and will push their luck one time too many…..

    As a legal matter, the case was most likely rightly decided based on the law. But, we should all be outraged at the lack of respect the Ninth Circuit showed to parents — who should be the the only party introducing seven year olds to issues of sex. As Neodanite said, if the town pervert had grilled the seven year olds on masturbation, it would have been a crime. In the same way, I can hardly imagine the Ninth Circuit upholding a law that would give parents the exclusive right to education their children about sex. And that is just not right.

    Bravo on the article, RedState.Org. And to rip off George Clooney and retake an honest love of America phrase, Good Luck America, and Good Night…..

    And to read the moonbats justification of this BS, click here…..

    Angry Young Conservatives…..

  21. Unregistered Comment by LCkschlenker UNITED STATES

    NewMexican,
    When I was in jr. high and high school, guys would run up and grab my breasts because I was (and am) very busty. This stopped in high school after I strangled one attacker into unconciousness even though he outweighed me by 80 pounds. He walked around with bruises on his neck for weeks, which was only fair, since I had worse bruises under my bra. I was suspended from school for protecting myself.
    Don’t be telling me that I am fault for the way those boys behaved. Their lack of respect came from how they were brought up, not from anything I did. I was the top of my class, National Honor Society, the whole bit. And I reported it every time. I was told, Boys will be Boys and I should ignore the assaults.
    Oddly, after I nearly killed someone, the guys respected me. It wasn’t virtue, brains, or ability that they respected–it was violence.

    Now that I am good and pissed off, I think I am going to go hunt bunnies…with a 12 gauge…from very close range.

  22. Unregistered Comment by Skank UNITED STATES

    And this is the reason I foot half the bill for my niece to go to private school. If I could get a job that pays half as good I would get the hell out of California for good. My son went to public school as I didn’t have this job when he was growing up, lucky he was and seems to be resistant to there crap I don’t know how or why but he did good. I thank G-d for that.

  23. Unregistered Comment by ahightower UNITED STATES

    Two words: Home School. Or is it one word, “homeschool”? Maybe I am not qualified to teach it after all… But surely I can do better than this. You simply cannot trust the public schools any more. I’m only 26, but when I was going to public school in the 80’s and 90’s, there was still such a thing as community standards, and respect for parental authority. Heck, I even got spanked by the principal in elementary school with a big wooden paddle. Now corporal punishment is off limits (that’s child abuse!), but condoms are free… The sex ed class I went to was not until 8th grade, and it was just a dry, scientific explanation of erections, sperm, eggs, and fallopian tubes. No condoms, oral sex, masturbation, etc. The times have changed, evidently. For a variety of other reasons, I can’t even trust the Catholic schools to meet my standards (or afford them). I am a little intimidated by the thought of my wife and I educating our children at home, what a huge responsibility. But with God’s help, we will at least protect their innocence.

  24. Unregistered Comment by Emperor Palpatine UNITED STATES

    Judge. Rope. Tree.

    Some assembly required.

    And it’s loooooong overdue.

    Heh.

    And HOW true

  25. Unregistered Comment by LC Inspector Callahan UNITED STATES

    Parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students

    As much as I hate this decision’s long-term effects, I don’t see what’s legally wrong with the decision. The Ninth circuit was actually dead on with this one.

    We conservatives have complained for years that there is no “privacy” right in the Constitution, and for good reason - it doesn’t exist. This non-existent right was used to justify the national legalization of abortion. “Privacy” was the basis of the plaintiffs’ legal filing in this case. In a complete backflip, conservatives want to apply this non-existent “privacy” right to what is taught in public schools.

    If we’re going to be consistent, we have to apply the law properly in ALL contexts. There as NO activism in this decision by the 9th circus - for a change.

    If we don’t like the schools passing out racy questionnaires, we should run for the school board, agitate at board meetings, or lobby our state reps. Demanding that the U.S. Court of Appeals overturn a ruling based a set outcome smacks of the same activism we accuse liberals of.

    TV (Harry)

  26. Unregistered Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Well there is always that old standby, Parochial School…

  27. Unregistered Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Inspector Callahan (#25) makes the following seemingly logical comment:

    We conservatives have complained for years that there is no “privacy” right in the Constitution, and for good reason - it doesn’t exist. This non-existent right was used to justify the national legalization of abortion. “Privacy” was the basis of the plaintiffs’ legal filing in this case

    So if parents don’t have exclusivity over their children in this case how is it that women (especially married women) can have exclusivity over the unborn child?

    Am I mixing apples and oranges here?

  28. Unregistered Comment by brnko UNITED STATES

    Alright - first of all, LCkschlenker, I do not believe that we fundamentally disagree. I believe you misunderstood my point (which may be my fault). I am not blaming women at all - read carefully - I am saying that the left targets young girls in order to destroy the unity between men and women (notice my point - if women choose weak men, then many, but NOT all men will be weak). The point of self respect is essential here - I am NOT saying that we are ruled by biology. I am saying the contrary; we can strive to be virtuous, decent. The left wants children to succumb to biological urges. Also if you noticed, I wrote “a strong man does not want a burka-wearing slave - he wants a partner”. If you had noticed that part, perhaps you would not have accused me of being like the mohammedans. What is a partner to a “strong man”? A strong woman of course. A major point of the entry is not that “women should bear the burden of morality” but that the evil sexualization of children, especially little girls, will have a tremendously destructive effect on the future. I am saying that YOU, the parents, should teach children morality, not the leftist-run schools. And I am sorry you left insulted, that was not my intent. What the left is doing is a crime against children and their attempt to make “sluts” of males and females will evoke the evils that I mentioned at the end of my post.

    And New Mexican, you wrote that girls are not pleasure objects. Is that not an underlying theme of my post? I stated that the left attempts to sexualize children in an effort to destroy morality and moral institutions. I stated that in doing so, they remove the beauty and spiritualism of life and replace it with the total state. Again, I do not believe that on a fundamental level we disagree. Since this topic became a bit of a tangent (I was specifically mentioning the leftist attack on little girls), I must mention that of course it is the responsability for ALL males, boys and men, to be moral and just. They alone will make that decision; I do believe there are influences, however, and one of them is the desire to be accepted by the opposite sex (I believe that for males, speaking from experience and from other’s experience, this influence is especially powerful). Based upon what you said about raising your family, LCkschlenker, if everyone followed your model (” I also happen to believe in PERSONAL responsibility. If someone screws up, it is their own damn fault, no one else’s. That means both men and women.”) this world would be a much better place. But the public school influence is powerful over children, and combined with the other influences can result in severe damage to a child’s sence of right and wrong (nocite how many children “support” teachers’ attacks on the US Army). As I implied (but perhaps should have made explicit - if so my apologies) both men and women are responsable for their own morality, but I do believe that in primarily targeting little girls, leftists are attempting to plant a seed that will weaken BOTH women and men.

  29. Unregistered Comment by LC Inspector Callahan UNITED STATES

    Juandos,

    Let me clarify my point. Robert Alt, from the corner, said it better than I could:

    The problem with Judge Reinhardt’s opinion is that it quite simply does not comport with his own Substantive Due Process jurisprudence. This is a judge who has found a Substantive Due Process right to commit suicide and for prisoners to ship semen (with the facilitation of prison officials) to their girlfriends so that they can procreate while behind bars. Yet somehow when he is confronted with a case that seeks to extend in a far more modest way some of the earliest Substantive Due Process cases—cases which recognized a right to send your child to private school and preventing the state from dictating private school curricula—he finds religion. Again, I think that he reaches the right decision based on the law, but I also think that he is disingenuous when he states that the court makes this decision based on law rather than policy preferences. Based on the rank inconsistency in Judge Reinhardt’s Substantive Due Process jurisprudence, the only reasonable conclusion is that his decision was predicated specifically on his liberal policy preferences.

    In other words, the decision was correct - this time. But the judge is inconsistent, probably BECAUSE it had to do with religion, and the fact that he’s the most notoriously liberal judge in the U.S. Courts of Appeals.

    To answer your question - no, you’re not mixing apples and oranges; it’s a logical point. You can thank the same, backwards, judicial activism in Roe v. Wade (and it’s antecedents) for that being the case. Roe was a bad decision, based on activism by the USSC.

    Overturn Wade, and these things will fix themselves in the state legislatures.

    TV (Harry)

  30. Unregistered Comment by Perro Malo UNITED STATES

    This is one of the many reasons why His Rottieness supports school vouchers. Let the parents decide where to send their kids, then watch the publik skool “teachers” sit around and throw spit balls at each other in empty classrooms.

    Until then, can you say “homeschool?”

    Here’s an interesting link regarding some of the underpinnings of the Publik Scrule system foisted on our society. The Bellamy cousins spoke out loudly for a school system that was designed to influence children to be militaristic socialist robots. They envisioned a school system of indoctrination where students were taught to be pliant to the will of the system rather than free thinkers.

    After 113 years of this socialist indoctrination while parents dozed, is it any wonder that our children are now assaulted with this latest phase of social engineering?

  31. Unregistered Comment by Rowane UNITED STATES

    the core morality of a nation is mostly determined by women

    Sorta like a T-shirt I saw the other day, “I have the pussy, I make the rules”

  32. Unregistered Comment by THANOS UNITED STATES

    ahightower mentioned that he was taught sex-ed in 8th grade….myself it was 10th grade…high school….and it was much like he said…very simple and dry sex-ed…just the very basics….i can just imagine what it is now….why not just put in a xxxrated movie and let the kiddies wacth that, eh leftists????….when does it stop, when does it end???….from what i get from reading the article is that sex-ed, or whatever they call it now, is taught to elementary age children, and its much more explicit if youre asking them, boys and girls, if they masterbate,touch each other, or whatever these sick liberals want to know what little kids do….sounds more like the left is commiting child molestation and this should be stopped forcefully….id knock the teeth out of any persons mouth, man or woman, if they asked my son if he touches himself, since its none of youre goddammned business and its a sick fucking question to ask, so be prepared to visit a world of pain….How the fuck did the liberals/leftists get control of our school systems???…and when do we, the conservatives decide that enough is enough and put a stop to it all before our children are morally bankrupted by these sick, twisted people???…..the liberal/leftists in this country are trying so hard to get our children ready for the hoped for Islamification of the US by making the boys into soon to be rapists and the girls into soon to be baby machines…thats were the conection lies as far as i can see….Islam and the liberal left….partners in crime…time to bring the big hammer right down on their heads before its too late

  33. TexanPatriot78 Comment by TexanPatriot78 UNITED STATES

    Speaking of perverted sex and weird stuff, wonder if Caspian would try to post here? That goose would be all over this. Sex, kids, be on this faster than Michael Jackson after taking a speedball.

  34. Unregistered Comment by JakeTheSnake UNITED STATES

    ahightower….I had the same fears. Go for it, brother. You will not regret it.

  35. Unregistered Comment by NewMexican UNITED STATES

    “Don’t be telling me that I am fault for the way those boys behaved. Their lack of respect came from how they were brought up, not from anything I did. I was the top of my class, National Honor Society, the whole bit. And I reported it every time. I was told, Boys will be Boys and I should ignore the assaults.
    Oddly, after I nearly killed someone, the guys respected me. It wasn’t virtue, brains, or ability that they respected–it was violence.
    Comment by LCkschlenker — November 4, 2005 @ 7:27 am”

    You aren’t. Women as a gender are. It doesn’t matter how early you start or how often you repeat it, as long as guys who treat women as objects are rewarded, guys will learn to do so.

    This doesn’t mean that every woman is to blame for this. And it also doesn’t mean that every man is to blame when women are objectified on a societal level. It’s just the way it is - as long as women in general aren’t worth respecting, men in general won’t respect them. Whining about it won’t change it - it’ll just make you look whiny.

  36. tweell Comment by tweell UNITED STATES

    My youngest children go to a decent charter school here in Arizona. The sex talks are left to parents, holding hands is grounds for detention, and grabbing gets the perpetrator expelled. To the surprise of some parents, these rules are strictly enforced. The school handbook enumerates these and other rules, to enroll both the student and a parent must sign a statement saying they have read, understand and will abide by those rules. Thank G_d for teachers who couldn’t take public schools any more and decided to make a school of their own!

  37. Apollyon Comment by Apollyon UNITED STATES

    Thank G_d for teachers who couldn’t take public schools any more and decided to make a school of their own!

    Hopefully this will be a trend that spreads throughout the US and makes it way to the Peoples Republic of California.

    THE NEA/LAUSD IS A CRIME SYNDICATE!!

  38. maxxdog Comment by maxxdog UNITED STATES

    Parents are responsible for everything to do with their children!
    No due process, my ass! We’ll see. This has to go to the USSC where it will be overruled as so many decisions of these fuggin liberal idiot judges from the 9th are. Absolute lunacy!

    Do you heat the tar up before spreading it on and applying the feathers? Just wondering

  39. Unregistered Trackback by Stop The ACLU UNITED STATES

    9th U.S. Circuit Court Rules In Favor of Schools to Teach Seven Year Old Children About Sex, Parents have no Say So

    (CNSNews.com) - A new ruling from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is prompting cries of judicial activism.
    On Wednesday the court dismissed a lawsuit brought by California parents who were outraged over a sex survey given to public school stude…

  40. Unregistered Comment by purrfect_mamma UNITED STATES

    You aren’t. Women as a gender are. It doesn’t matter how early you start or how often you repeat it, as long as guys who treat women as objects are rewarded, guys will learn to do so.

    To New Mexican,

    You’re missing the point. If a person leaves her house unlocked, are we to excuse the thief who breaks in? Do people lock their houses to make the thieves honest or to protect themselves against thieves? Do you teach your children that it is the fault of the homeowner if he gets robbed? If you teach your children to be honest, they can walk through an entire city of houses with doors wide open and no one will be robbed.

    You wish to place the major responsibility for virtue on women, arguing that if women were virtuous, men would be virtuous too. But you could make the opposite argument, if MEN were the ones assigned to protect virtue, women would have to be virtuous as well.

    The problem with both arguments is that if you don’t assign virtue to both genders (regardless of the virtue of individuals you may encounter), you’re simply locking the thieves out, but you’re doing nothing to actually make the thieves honest, they’ll just keep looking for another house. And men ought to object to this even more than women, because it has to lead to the inevitability that women must view all men (regardless of the worth of an individual) as thieves of their virtue.

    Assigning men responsibility for their own virtue would also innoculate men against women who would take advantage of them (can you spell Kobe Bryant?) If men believe that it is okay to have sex with “bad” women, are they so naive as to believe the women are only bad with their SEXUAL virtue? If men were responsible for their own virtue, there would be no issues of consensual v. rape. Men couldn’t be “tricked” by women who claimed to be using birth control. If someone breaks into an unlocked house and steps into a booby trap, how sorry should we feel for him?

    LCkschlenker talked about having her breasts grabbed and you blamed women. Well I was in eighth grade in the early 60s and had the same thing happened to me. I was walking the midway at the county fair in broad daylight with a group of friends, and a boy walking the opposite direction grabbed me and then disappeared into the crowd with this group of friends. He was a kid, younger than me. I heard him and his friends all laughing. My friends wanted to go after him and I wanted to sink into the ground. Where did he get the idea that this was okay? The sexual revolution hadn’t hit yet. Girls were still responsible for guarding virtue. But we were still just objects to be grabbed.

    You cannot make one person responsible for another’s virtue. You cannot make a whole gender responsible for the other’s virtue. Both genders need to be taught to respect the other from the outset and the dis-respect is earned one on one–not the other way around

  41. Unregistered Pingback by Stop The ACLU » Blog Archive » 9th U.S. Circuit Court Rules In Favor of Schools to Teach Seven Year Old Children About Sex, Parents have no Say So UNITED STATES

    […] Anit-Idiotarian Rottweiller has more outrage! […]

  42. Unregistered Comment by NewMexican UNITED STATES

    In response to Comment by purrfect_mamma — November 5, 2005 @ 6:22 am

    What you miss is that I seperate cause from morality, and reality from idealism.

    Is sexual harrasment right? No. Is telling men that “women aren’t sex objects”, even if you start telling them when they’re 5 and keep on ’til they are dead going to make even a tiny impact on the incidence of sexual harrasment? It will make none whatsoever. There is no way to “train” all men to respect women. All that can be done on a societal level is arm women to protect themselves.

    Telling men not to be “thieves” in your analogy is stupid. Some men choose to be thieves, some choose not to; those who choose not to would not steal regardless of whether they are asked not to and those who choose to steal do so no matter how much their victims complain. The only solution is to change how rewarding the thieves’ occupation is - for example, by locking your damn house.

    To extend your analogy to what I’ve been saying, my point is that if all houses were adequately protected (i.e. all women were virtuous), thievery would not be a lucrative occupation and men in general would have to find productive jobs. However, many if not most women not only leave their houses unlocked, they leave the door open. The result is that “thievery” is indeed a lucrative enterprise, and those who fail to protect themselves from it will suffer.

    When you say that men should be “taught to respect women”, it’s no different from telling people not to steal - it has no effect whatsoever.

    This does not in any way absolve each individual of his responsibility to act righteously. All will answer for their own choices, ultimately. What it does mean is that if you want to have an actual impact on the incidence of “thievery” you have to change the factors that support thievery, not just announce that you don’t like thieves.

    Let me put it this way: Men as a gender pursue sex, and don’t give a fuck what whiny feminists think of them, except when pretending to give a fuck gets them more sex. If you want to control their actions, you have to control who gets sex. Since women as a gender refuse to cooperate with what you want, you’re what we call “shit out of luck”. Men who choose to respect women will continue to do so, and men who want sex will continue to obtain it from the majority of women who are unvirtuous.

  43. Unregistered Comment by Tuning Spork UNITED STATES

    There’s a related article here.

    The survey was conducted by an outside health services consultant who was conducting research for her dissertation, and Gyves said the questionnaire given to the students “was not the version of the survey that had been approved by the district.

    Apparantly the kids were guinea pigs for some couthless hack’s research project. Way to f*ck with their heads to find out that **gasp** pre-pubescent children just don’t understand sex.

    UPDATE: I decided to read the comments before posting this just in case someone else brought out the fact that this a survey from a researcher. Someone did, of course. But, I’m going to post this anyway jus’ ‘cuz this might be the first ever UPDATED comment. Heh.

  44. Unregistered Comment by purrfect_mamma UNITED STATES

    To New Mexican,

    Congratulations. You have achieved the nearly impossible. You have rendered me (nearly) speechless.

    Maybe I am a stupid, whiny feminist. But I have more belief in the basic goodness of men than you apparently do.

    If you are right and I am wrong, it would make me very very sad.

  45. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    OK, I think we’ve spent enough time throwing blame at each other, so here’s the real deal: We’re ALL to blame.

    Men who force themselves upon women are, obviously, responsible for their own actions. Unfortunately, this wonderful and permissive society that we’ve built has made sure that they’re not HELD responsible for their own actions. There was a time when treating a lady like that would get you slapped in the face by a gentleman’s glove and you’d have to face the consequences at dawn. There was a time when young men were brought up to understand that not only did sex come with commitment, but also that if you didn’t understand this simple rule, you’d likely find some other guy’s fist in your face. If you were lucky. You also learned that if you ever, EVER saw another man behaving like a boor, it was you damn DUTY to defend her honor, or you’d be just as bad as he, in every sense.

    All that changed with the Pussification of the Western Male. As women were taught that traditional marriage was a tool of “patriarchal oppression” (thank you, feminists) and that gender roles were a thing of a dark, medieval past, they started behaving in just the way that men, in their private, wet dreams, had always wanted them to behave. Sex on demand, no commitment, use it and trash it, the works. At the same time, our young men were taught that behaving like gentlemen was just another way of oppressing women and that they ought to behave more like girls instead. Obviously, they couldn’t be taught to not be male, but they COULD be taught to forget being protective of women and responsible in their dealings with them. So we ended up with raging testosterone factories minus the societal constraints.

    But hey, at least we got “Sex and the City”, so it wasn’t a complete loss, was it? I believe it was.

    Now, don’t get me wrong, I fully agree with the early goals of feminism, which was to level the playing field and provide women with the same equality of opportunity that we’d finally, after centuries of struggle, managed to offer everybody else. What I don’t agree with was that the feminists apparently felt that, in order to succeed, they had to burn down the entire fucking village to save it. No, I don’t see anything wrong in women deciding, for themselves, that they’d rather pursue a career in, say, business than be housewives. I don’t understand why, but that’s most likely because I never quite understood what was so gorram wonderful about a 9 to 5 that made it so much more desirable than raising a family. It doesn’t matter. If women want it, they should be allowed to, just like everybody else.

    But why they had to heap scorn and derision on traditional family values in order to get there, I don’t know. Why they had to throw filth in the face of hard working housewives, calling them all the foul names they could think of, I don’t know. Perhaps they were secretly envious of their happy and full lives? It certainly would explain a lot.

    So we taught our girls to be whores and our boys to be rapists, and now we’re wondering what’s wrong with them?

    Pull the other one, because I ain’t buying.

  46. Unregistered Comment by NewMexican UNITED STATES

    “But I have more belief in the basic goodness of men than you apparently do.

    If you are right and I am wrong, it would make me very very sad.

    Comment by purrfect_mamma — November 5, 2005 @ 7:35 pm”

    Which is where we differ.

    I’ve seen too much to have any belief whatsoever in the “basic goodness of men”. I’m not saying all men are evil. Rather, I’ve seen much to indicate instead a balance of good and evil within men, and the evil must be overcome before any goodness is seen. Most men have never chosen to fight it at all.

    Some men choose to walk a righteous path. Those I have known all suffered for it. As long as this remains the case, such men will be the exception and not the rule.

    I expect it would have been easier to do what was right when it was expected as a matter of course. Those days are gone, and few are willing to accept the disadvantages in this life for nothing but an honor that the rest of the world sneers at.

  47. Unregistered Comment by purrfect_mamma UNITED STATES

    To Emperor Misha and New Mexican,

    Okay, this is getting complicated and I’m tired. But thanks for having the discussion with me.

    I am a feminist, but my brand of feminism is not the radical feminism that you are railing about. As a shortcut, I would say that I find myself often in agreement with Wendy McElroy who writes a column for foxnews.com.

    The extreme of making women rely on the protection of men is Sharia law. You both seem far better informed than I am about current events, so I’m sure you have seen some of the films about Afghanistan under the Taliban. Single women and widows starve because they are not allowed to work and they don’t have a man to protect them. A woman from Pakistan is currently visiting this country who was gang-raped as a punishment to her brother (bad grammar but I’m too tired to fix it).

    We will never have that extreme in this country and I’m not trying to say we ever have or ever will. But to a lesser extent, women in the 50s and 60s suffered from a societal expectation that they would be protected by men. Because women who didn’t have men to protect them or whose men failed to protect them were screwed. The best-paying jobs were closed to women and even if a woman did get hired for the same job as a man, she was often paid less. It was assumed that a man was taking care of us. But if she were single, or widowed or divorced, or her husband was unable to work or didn’t make enough to support the family, she still faced the same situation.

    And if a woman was raped, it was nearly ALWAYS blamed on her. Oh sure, the man might be tried and even go to jail, but she would always be suspect. And heaven help her if she had ever had sex with a man before she was raped–because it was assumed that if had ever said yes to one man, she must be a whore and therefore had no right to legal recourse should if she was raped.

    Women cannot afford to depend on men for protection. Even when they choose a traditional marriage (which has many benefits), they must have the ability to support themselves and their children should it become necessary.

    The feminist revolution was necessary for these reasons and more. And the pill was a big part of it for both good and evil. A woman cannot truly control her destiny if she can’t control her reproduction (and don’t tell me she should have just said no, because wives were expected to submit and there was no recognition of the concept of marital rape, much less any laws against it. Not to mention that sex is good for marriage even if it’s not time for children.).

    But as with any revolution, a lot of bad happened. Women are not men and the experiment of trying to be like men, instead of forging a new female identity in a newly-equalized society, failed. And the pill certainly enabled women to behave like tomcats. And we are all paying the price, especially our children. We need to change direction. But not by simply turning back the clock.

    I am actually seeing hope–at least in middle class families. I am seeing young women leave high school, go to college, work, get married, have children–and then often either work part-time or be stay-at-home moms. I am seeing young dads who interact with their children in ways that were rare in earlier generations–and finding it a joy. And I’m seeing some families where dad stays home and mom has the main bread-winning job.

    All I have really been trying to say is that as we try to change things, we should not return to the past, but should build a better future.

    I hope you do not believe that I have been blaming men for our current situation because I do not. I simply am unwilling to let them–as a gender or individually–off the hook for being part of the solution.

    And now I am going to bed.

    P.S. If you want to know why women want to work outside the home, one reason is because it is valued. Think about what you do at home and how often you get thanked, told good job or feel truly appreciated. When you have an outside job that is rewarding to you, you don’t necessarily feel like you need recognition to mow the lawn. But when your only job is to do home things and when many of things you do to keep things working are actually invisible to the rest of the family, you can feel unappreciated and undervalued. In fact, instead of getting recognition for fixing supper, you might get complaints about what it is. It is not selfish to feel this way. It is not selfish to want your efforts to be recognized–it is human.

  48. Unregistered Comment by purrfect_mamma UNITED STATES

    To New Mexican,

    If you believe that men behave the way they do because they are rewarded for being bad and punished for being good, why do you not grant women the same indulgence?

  49. Unregistered Comment by NewMexican UNITED STATES

    To New Mexican,

    If you believe that men behave the way they do because they are rewarded for being bad and punished for being good, why do you not grant women the same indulgence?

    Comment by purrfect_mamma — November 5, 2005 @ 11:01 pm

    It has nothing to do with “indulgence”, which implies that I excuse the actions in question. (I do not.)

    Both genders pursue what they want. Women cause men to treat them as objects by using men to get what they want emotionally, socially, or financially. Men cause women to do so by giving them what they want in return for sex. Both genders are equally guilty.

    The reason that you seem to think that I “blame women” or whatever caused you to take exception is that we were discussing the reason that men objectify women. If we had instead been discussing why women manipulate men, I would have said “Men as a gender cause this by giving women power, money, and social standing in return for sex.”

  50. Unregistered Comment by Kit UNITED STATES

    JakeTheSnake:

    I’m thinking of homeschooling my son, who is 8. Can you contact me via email? I’ve got a few questions for you. =)

    kit.jarrell@gmail.com

    Thanks!

  51. Unregistered Comment by Kit UNITED STATES

    OMG. MISHA. Your comment was spectacular. Thank you, thank you for saying it.

  52. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    Good points, purrfect_mamma, and I think that we agree quite a bit on a lot of things.

    I would never suggest that it’s selfish for a woman to choose a career over staying at home. Like I said, if that’s what floats a particular woman’s boat, there is absolutely no reason why she shouldn’t be allowed to pursue that dream just like any man would. I just don’t always understand what’s so miraculously wonderful about earning a paycheck. Any idiot can find a job and get paid. I should know, because I’ve been able to do so for all of my adult life. It takes a whole lot more than that to keep a home together and raise responsible adults.

    Sure, it’s true that sometimes what you do at home goes unappreciated, but that’s a problem with the other half of the household being an idiot not realizing what he has. Besides, don’t ever mistake a paycheck for being valued or appreciated. You’re selling a product (your work) and you’re being paid for the goods. That’s not appreciation any more than I’m appreciating the local grocery store by paying for the goods I’m carting out of there. Appreciation is when your boss pats you on the back and says “good job”, something that’s worth any number of monetary bonuses as far as I’m concerned. The paycheck itself is nothing more than what you’ve earned and what keeps you from walking out the door.

    Also, I don’t expect women to have to rely on the good nature of men. I wouldn’t want anybody to have to rely on anybody’s good nature. Sometimes you can, but if you’re betting your life on it you’re a fool. What I am saying, however, is that society and feminism has done its damndest to breed the protective nature out of men. It’s our job to be protective. It’s our duty to be protective. It is that for any number of reasons, chief among which are the fact that we’re stronger than women and thus better suited for the task of protector and, just as importantly, that we need women, there are so many things at which you’re infinitely better than we are thanks to your genetic hardwiring, just like there are things that we’re better equipped to do than you are, for the same reasons, and we’d be a bunch of blithering buffoons to not realize that that means that we need to take good care of you and keep you safe, fed, protected, loved and respected.

    Please understand that when I or men like myself refer to you as the “weaker sex”, we’re not doing so out of a sense of superiority, nor are we secretly wishing for dependent, spineless women who can’t stand on their own two feet. We’re simply using our own frame of reference, a frame of reference shaped by the harsh realities of life and the part that we play in it. We do not want you to be our slaves, if we did we’d never have abolished the practice, but we also realize that when it comes to brute strength and endurance, we’re better equipped on average than you are. This comes with the responsibility of keeping you safe, fed, and loved.

    Call it sexist if you like, but that’s the way it is. G-d (or nature, if you prefer, it’s the same concept) made it that way. We’re NOT the same, we’re two different parts of a whole and neither part can succeed without the other.

    Here’s an example: I don’t know how you women do it, but your ability to multitask is nothing short of phenomenal. It’s a mystery to me. I’ve seen it here at home and I’ve seen it in other people’s homes as well. You can keep fifteen plates spinning in the air and at the same time keep a perfect tab on what every kid in the household is doing, and you can do so effortlessly. I can do it to an extent, but I have to WORK at it. Women just do it.

    What I can do in return is to make sure that there’s food on the table and that my little clan is safe, should an intruder ever be stupid enough to try his luck. Not much, when you think of it, is it?

    But it’s my job, and I’m happy with it. It’s hard coded into me. You can strip me down to my barest essentials and you’ll find the core programming to be “protect women and children.” It was programmed so effectively into me when I was a kid that, to this day, I CAN’T hurt a female. I’ve been in enough situations in my life where it would’ve been understandable if I’d done so, but I just couldn’t. Couldn’t as in “I saw the need for the action, but something stopped me dead in my tracks and I got myself hurt as a result.” I wouldn’t have it any other way.

    I wouldn’t have it any other way because the last thing I’d want to unleash on this world would be my male instincts and abilities to hurt and maim unchecked by societal norms and hard programming, any more than I’d want my military training unleashed upon society without the extensive “brainwashing” that comes with that job.

    That analogy is actually a very good one. You see, in the Armed Forces we train people to become very efficient, ruthless killing machines. We have to, because a soldier is worthless if he can’t flip on “The Machine” and become a killer at a moment’s notice. Of course, everybody realizes that that’s not something you want running around unchecked, so you install a whole bunch of mental fail safes or override switches in training. The military is often maligned by idiots who don’t know any better for this “brainwashing” and conditioning to follow orders, but trust me: The last thing you want is a finely honed killer without an “off” switch.

    So where does this tie in with maleness and traditional upbringing? Ever seen males of different species in nature? The thing is, when you’re born with a penis, you’re already programmed to be dominant, strong and, to top it off, when you hit puberty you get the urge to hump anything you please, whenever you please. That’s the way nature has wired us. Unlike soldiers, we don’t learn those traits, we’re born with them, whether we like it or not, so there’s no “conscientious objector” option for us.

    The way society used to deal with that was through our upbringing. We were taught to use those traits only in the right way, never to abuse them, and to be forever aware of the fact that they were there. Nobody denied the existence of our maleness, any more than anybody denied the laws of gravity, it was dealt with. So we taught our male children a code of conduct, we taught them a way to channel their natural male aggressiveness in a productive as opposed to destructive manner, we taught them that their natural superiority in matters of strength and endurance was to be used only to protect the weaker females, ALL females, and that we were to punish immediately and forcefully any males breaking the rules, because we, as males, were the only ones naturally equipped to do so.

    Then along came the permissive society, equality (in all things) of the sexes, and the credo that to even suggest that it was any different was “wrong” and “sexist.”

    But the maleness didn’t go away. We just removed all the failsafes. We thought that we could teach males to not be males, that we could somehow deny nature by simply saying that it was a bad idea. It doesn’t work that way. You might as well try to teach elephants that they’re hummingbirds simply by telling them that they are. What’s worse, we removed the channels into which all of this natural aggression and strength could be sent. We handed a loaded weapon to somebody and neglected to teach him the basics of gun safety.

    All of the wishful thinking in this world won’t make the differences between men and women go away.

    We tried, and we’re dealing with the consequences today.

  53. Unregistered Comment by purrfect_mamma UNITED STATES

    It’s been a good discussion. Thank you.

  54. sig94 Comment by sig94 UNITED STATES

    It is kind of sad that God has been pretty much written out of the equation here. We have discussed the self control exercised by a soldier as an example of manly behavior, and well we should. As any Western man well versed in the rules of-war, we should be aware that St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologicae) and other men of God (here and here) developed those rules which continue to be examined and taught today.

    But what about ALL aspects of manliness? Do we omit the Creator in these discussions? At no time was this country ever perfect, but there was a common acknowledgement of God and His precepts as a basis for all behavior.

    Purrfect_mamma and LCkschlenker, there have always been fools, jackasses and cowards; society will never be rid of them. That’s a fact of life. But society’s acceptance of this type of behavior is a great problem. The common culture has been corrupted by pornographic images (and that includes soft porn) in movies, magazines, television, etc. Prostitutes and porn queens now vie for attention as “professionals” on Oprah. And we wonder how woman come to be considered as sex objects?

    Boorish behavior is considered “cool” and glorified as something to be emulated. So why are we surprised that when our young people grow up and become teachers and researchers, they see nothing wrong with presenting questions to children that forty years ago would have had hordes of angry parents reacting. Forty years ago there may not have been lawsuits, but there would have been beatings…

  55. Unregistered Comment by palyne UNITED STATES

    Well, I’m a woman, and I personally think the whole liberal brainmelt of the last few decades has screwed feminism more thoroughly than any gangrape could have managed. Total lack of personal responsibility has been taken to such an extreme you’d think being female equated to being communist. The ‘activists’ I have seen in print and video disgrace women to the point it embarrasses me. These people need to get real jobs, or real families, or get really, really well laid. There are serious issues facing women in our culture but some whiny sort who obviously couldn’t find her hairbrush that morning is not gonna be the one to change it, I am fairly sure. The modern incarnation of feminism has as much to do with the feminine as islamofascists have to do with with a religion of peace. In fact the term at this point carries so much negative baggage it oughtta be ditched and something better come up with, for the few sane women who want to support the cause and not be lumped in with the other fruitloops.

    (Misha your comment 45 was fabulous.) I did the single executive life, I’ve done both the married and the single mom life, and I’ve lived in six states so have gotten a small taste of the cultural variances even inside the USA. There are cultural and educational things we could do to improve the gender situation in this country, sure, and I could complain all damn day about several things women face (and a couple men do in fact, while we’re at it), but aside from specific gripes, I think the core issues go beyond gender. Personal responsibility is a core even below that.

    Anybody remember that dude who broke into a animal shelter, with a sawed off baseball bat, and murdered/mutiliated/injured most the animals there for fun? The news interviewed all kinds of people, including his family, who said brilliant things like, “Come on, they were just cats.” Put a bullet in that dude before it’s your children, morons. Jesus H. The worry should be for the sanity of anybody who thinks it might be excusable for any human to act like that without being court-ordered to years of therapy. (Shock therapy. Or therapy with a sawed-off baseball bat! :-))

    I’m appalled the teachers involved didn’t react to that questionnaire. You have to ask yourself, even if the consultant was a total bonehead, even if the parents weren’t informed, even if the administration wasn’t aware of the changes in it, WTF were the teachers thinking?? Heh. Try to run that through a rural Oklahoma school and even the teachers would kick your ass. I hope.

    My nine year old has probably been over-exposed to stuff that in a perfect world, I’d do better with the next kid if there were one. Partly as a result of the difficulty of seeing almost any non-disney movie/cartoon that doesn’t have sex or at least making out. Partly because at NINE she–and her classmates who are older–are just starting to develop. (It would be abusive if I locked her away for her own safety till 18, right? ;-)) And partly due to the enormous popularity of dolls-and-everything they call BRATZ, which in case you don’t know, are kind of like what Barbie would be if she were a hybrid-alien hollywood hooker on meth. I answer anything she asks, but a couple times have told her some answers would have to wait till she was older. I would be SO angry if anybody but me was talking to her about sex, though. I would consider it child abuse. In fact, if I went next door and talked to the little girl and boy about sex, I bet the authorities would say it WAS child abuse on my part. I wonder why it’s ok at school.

    There are no private schools around me. I couldn’t afford a carden or montessori even if they were. The homeschool options are infested with religion I don’t want to indoctrinate her with either. And given I work for a living, homeschooling in the day would be impractical to say the least–plus, I really DO want her to at least have the socialization that school offers. My biggest gripe is that this new edu idea of making sure kids are really grounded in 1-2 grade (a good and noble idea I support) causes so MUCH repeating (more money for the school system!), plus there is now a level “between” K and 1, that my kid is in 4th grade with only 1 other 9 year old, and all the others are 10 and 11! It’s like I skipped her ahead 2 years but I didn’t. She’s shorter and less coordinated than kids 1-2 years older and socially it just sucks, and that’ll only get worse as she gets older. Even many of the kids a grade behind her are older than she is. I am not sure what I’ll do. Seems like it oughtta be something. (By the way anybody interested in education in America might read John Taylor Gatto’s books (he has a lot free online). Some of the history that led to our schooling is astounding.)