Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Page::start_lvl() should be compatible with Walker::start_lvl($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 581

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Page::end_lvl() should be compatible with Walker::end_lvl($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 581

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Page::start_el() should be compatible with Walker::start_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 581

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Page::end_el() should be compatible with Walker::end_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 581

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_PageDropdown::start_el() should be compatible with Walker::start_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 600

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Category::start_lvl() should be compatible with Walker::start_lvl($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 699

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Category::end_lvl() should be compatible with Walker::end_lvl($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 699

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Category::start_el() should be compatible with Walker::start_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 699

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Category::end_el() should be compatible with Walker::end_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 699

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_CategoryDropdown::start_el() should be compatible with Walker::start_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/classes.php on line 724

Strict Standards: Redefining already defined constructor for class wpdb in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/wp-db.php on line 57

Strict Standards: Redefining already defined constructor for class WP_Object_Cache in /home/misha/public_html/2006/wp-includes/cache.php on line 404
Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » THIS is What We’re Fighting For???

Last night on the show, we got an update on the proceedings in the case of the seven Marines and one Navy Corpsman that have been held on murder charges at Camp Pendleton. It was an update that floored the both of us to the point where neither of us knew what to say.

Well, I’ve now had a chance to cool down or, more accurately, shift from a state of furious, red hot, spitting anger to a state of cold, focused, laser beam hatred. At least that allows me to type somewhat coherently. I’m no less infuriated, I can assure you of THAT, it’s just that the urge to flail about and pound holes in the drywall has turned into something worse and, I hope and pray, much much more effective.

So what’s it all about?

Well, the JAG-offs running the kangaroo court have decided, in their Shariah wisdom, that counsel for those eight men won’t be allowed access to witnesses or forensic evidence.

That’s right. You didn’t read me wrong. Go here if you don’t believe me and, quite frankly, I won’t blame you one little bit if you’re having trouble accepting what I’m saying. Surely I must have gotten something wrong?

Nope. Not one little bit.

In other words, the Marine Corps has decided that our own soldiers, the ones fighting and dying to defend our liberties and the Rule of Law, aren’t entitled to Due Process.

Sure, they can have counsel, only their counsel won’t be allowed to, you know, DEFEND them.

Because the Corps has apparently decided that those eight men must die and there’s no way in Hell they’ll allow them to have their day in court, lest they should be found innocent.

That’s the kind of “justice” you find in Iran. That’s the kind of “justice” you find in North Korea. That’s the kind of “justice” you found in the Soviet Union.

Obviously, certain parties in the Marine Corps believe in it too.

At the same time the Supreme Court decides that you cannot treat terrorist captives in an “undignified” (whatever the Hell they may later decide that that means) manner, after we had months of outrage over a few terrorists paraded around with panties on their heads, we now learn that our own soldiers can’t expect due process if charged with a crime.

They can, instead, expect a drumroll court martial and a rope. A mock trial the likes of which would make Saddam Hussein, Mahmoud Ahmadinnerjacket and Josef Stalin blush with embarrassment.

This is an outrage. This is so far BEYOND “outrage” that there are no words that properly describe it.

IT. MUST. NOT. STAND.

If it’s allowed to stand, if the JAG-weasels get away with murdering those eight men, because MURDER is what it IS, then we might as well just pack up and declare the Great American Experiment over.

We will, TRULY, have become that which we fight. The terrorists will have finally won, because why would we want to continue fighting for an ideal that has been tried, dragged outside and summarily shot?

I need your help. Those eight men need your help. Our nation and all that she USED to stand for needs your help.

Get the word out. Write your Congresscritters, write the Corps, write the press and DEMAND that they put the spotlight of publicity on this travesty of justice. Shout it from the rooftops, repeat it until you’re blue in the face, tell your neighbors, your friends, your families, your coworkers, then tell them again.

As to the worthless wastes of human DNA perpetrating that abomination, the ones responsible for trying to turn this country into that which we claim to fight a war against, I have only this to say:

You are lower than excrement. You are no better than the ululating swine we fight. You are the very reason that we have the words “disposable” and “useless” in the English language. If there were any justice, you rear echelon motherfuckers would be dragged from the safety and comfort of your mahogany desks in your airconditioned offices, poured into combat fatigues and made to walk point in the Sunni Triangle with nothing but a toothpick for your personal protection.

Then, when the cavemen we’re fighting would capture you, you could think long and hard about the crimes against our nation you’ve committed as you crapped your pants, listening to your captors sharpening their knives in the background.

You would be receiving the exact same kind of “justice” that you are willing to afford our own soldiers, but you, unlike them, would deserve every second of it.

You are a disgrace to the nation and to the uniform that you wear.

Thatisall.

LC & IB Kit has more.

25 Responses to “THIS is What We’re Fighting For???”
  1. RobH Comment by RobH

    Before rushing to conclusions, as a former career military officer (NOT a JAG, but a Naval Aviator!), believe that Article 32 is merely a “hearing” to determine facts, findings, and NOT the final say in what will happen.

    That said, I’m not pleased with ANY limitations on the accused, and don’t understand why ANY evidence, for good or ill, isn’t allowed to be introduced.

    Something doesn’t pass the “smell” test here.

    And for those who serve, doesn’t bode well for the warfighters who protect us every day.

    Can someone on active duty pls comment on what’s going on here, preferably a Marine?

    God Bless you all!

  2. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    That said, I’m not pleased with ANY limitations on the accused, and don’t understand why ANY evidence, for good or ill, isn’t allowed to be introduced.

    That’s all that it boils down to for me too.

    Due process.

    It used to be the Law of the Land.

    (Oh, and seeing as how I’m clearly guilty of JAG-slamming here, it should be pointed out, in the interest of fairness, that for every unmitigated asshole, there’s an opposite called “opposing counsel.” Never forget the Good Guys.)

  3. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    A copy of your post just went out to everyone on my mailing list….now time to write both my senators, one rep and ask just what the hell is going on here?

  4. Unregistered Comment by twolaneflash UNITED STATES

    Four years of liberal education, followed by three years of liberal law education, steep in legal cesspool for indeterminate period, pin butter-bars on uniform, call yourself a military-lawyer. America’s warriors get the same mouse vs tiger defense that the average American Joe gets when defending themselves against the IRS or Federal prosecutors who have unlimited resources and assistants. It just ain’t fair in the best of circumstances, but to hamstring and handcuff the defendant’s attorney is plain evil. Justice is supposed to be operating in blindness, not the accused.

  5. RobH Comment by RobH

    Was just thinking about twolaneflash’s post - I’ve been out of the loop since I retired over 8 1/2 years ago from the navy - I wonder if the JAGS are going into the military without having had any real experience in the real world, or the real military.

    In time of war.

    Would love to hear from any JAGS, or any lawyers who read here, just WTF is going on!

  6. LC Horrabin Comment by LC Horrabin

    Aw, shit.
    I was just dropping by to say I was still a Loyal Citizen (albeit not around much lately) and I see this bullshit.
    As a veteran, I’m glad I was “RA, Drill Sergeant” in my day rather than “US” or “NG”, but back then the DI and everyone else would have my back (1970). Seems it’s not so now.
    We are sunk. There are way more retards than there are cognizant humans in this country now. When the Military goes PC, it’s over, Rover.
    RIP, USA.
    Shit on a stick.

  7. LC Beaker Comment by LC Beaker UNITED STATES

    Misha, here is a link to the US Senators on the Personnel Sub-Committee of the Armed Forces Committee.

    They should be contacted as well. This injustice cannot be allowed to stand.

  8. DANEgerus Comment by DANEgerus UNITED STATES

    Seen the movie Breaker Morant?

    Uh… huh…

  9. I hate liberals Comment by I hate liberals UNITED STATES

    Why is it that the terrorists have more rights than our marines??
    Why would they want to do this to our guys??
    That guy that fragged his superiors in kuwait got his rights, is it because he was a muslim and he only killed americans?
    This makes me sick!

  10. Unregistered Comment by pfc Nick Fury UNITED STATES

    My wife and I attended a fund raising picnic for one of these Marines two weeks ago near Matlock, Washington - a rural area that doesn’t have much more than a lumber mill and a store. The gas pumps are 1970’s vintage. But that day nearly one hundred people, some from 60-70 miles away raised a few thousand dollars towards this young man’s defense. We met his mother, some of his high school friends and many other pissed off citizens. The general consensus was, “what the hell has happened to the Marine Corps?” No. 6 nails it - pc military equals bye bye U.S.A.

  11. Unregistered Comment by thefrollickingmole

    Morant was a movie, about as factual as bowling for Collombine. His name is still shit in the regiment he used to serve in, the movie took a huge amount of liberties with the facts. (sorry for the quibble)

    So its come to this, terrorists officaly have more access to the full “due proccesses” of the American legal system than those sworn to defend it do.
    If someone wants some fun they could post the same story at a lefty site and change the names to a group of jihadi scum in Guantanimo.
    It would be priceless to hear the whining and squealing, then drop in it it American troops copping the rough end of the pinapple.
    Make a nice comparison.

  12. Unregistered Comment by resro CANADA

    That’s the kind of “justice” you find in Iran. That’s the kind of “justice” you find in North Korea. That’s the kind of “justice” you found in the Soviet Union.

    That’s the kind of “justice” you guys had no problem with when it was applied to someone in Guantanamo. Or do Arabs not deserve fair trials?

  13. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    That’s the kind of “justice” you guys had no problem with when it was applied to someone in Guantanamo. Or do Arabs not deserve fair trials?

    Thank you for predictably showing up with a rather amusing display of utter ignorance of the various and sundry laws and customs of war as well as both Hague and Geneva, trying to hijack the thread and misrepresenting the facts at hand.

    I was beginning to wonder what took you so long.

    Really. You need to do better next time.

    Back into the water with you, fishie.

  14. Unregistered Comment by Lisa Gilliam UNITED STATES

    I think it is time for the military to take a closer examination of their officer corps.it seems that in the last 10 to 20 years,they’ve produced a poor quality especially the JAG officers corps.It used to be that they had to have combat experience before becoming a JAG,what has happened in the 10 years or so,to change that,it seems more and more beauracracy has taken over,and if the Marines keep this up they won’t have a Marine Corps.

  15. Unregistered Trackback by Homemade Sin

    Marines Rock……

  16. Unregistered Comment by resro CANADA

    Thank you for predictably showing up with a rather amusing display of utter ignorance of the various and sundry laws and customs of war as well as both Hague and Geneva, trying to hijack the thread and misrepresenting the facts at hand.

    If “sundry laws and customs of war” say “due process for me, but not for thee” then they have absolutely no bearing on any actual justice. Justice is treating all accused as equal and innocent until proven guilty. That includes these soldiers, POWs, “enemy combatants,” and everyone else.

    Now I can understand if you think that there are some circumstances where the proper exercise of justice must be set aside, but don’t call locking people up without trial or charge “justice.”

  17. franklaughter Comment by franklaughter

    This is a serious matter but its just the tip of the iceberg. Look at PFC Edward Richmond’s story and others. Its bad and getting worse. Also see: If You’re Not Pissed, You Should Be

  18. Panzermann403 Comment by Panzermann403 GERMANY

    I just read the three sections Kit wrote over at Euphoric Reality. I’m not quite sure I understand how this can be happening.

    If a civilian was handled like that by a civilian court/prosecution, his lawyer could have the whole case dismissed easily and eventually claim damages for his client.

    The basic proceedings and values of civilian court should hold true for a military tribunal. Otherwise it would be impossible to guarantee soldier’s civil rights.

    In fact (and purely informational) the German military since 1945 has no military criminal tribunal althogether. All soldiers are subject to civilian court at all times, whether at times of war or peace.

    So it seems to my foreign eye that the Marine Corps or the US military in general wants to make an example of how swiftly and harshly it deals with aledged war criminals. This can only be an effort to win Hearts and Minds in the Arab World and to work against the political left in the US which might use accusations like that against the war effort in general if the US military would not react to them quickly and seriously.

    BUT !!!
    Denying access to evidence ?
    Not giving enough counsel capacity ?
    Prosecution deciding what kind of evidence is admissable to court or accessible to counsel ?
    Shackled incarceration for three weeks ?

    I don’t mean to offend your great nation, but that sounds like a military tribunal after the fashion of the German Reich in 1944/1945.

    This is show justice. It has all the signs of a sacrifice of pawns. This can not be allowed to happen. If the Western World does treat their fighting men/women like that, then Our Way is doomed.

    I pray to Allvater Odin, lord of Battle and of Law that these eight men are not sacrificed to the vile PC establishment.

    After all, we are in a fight AGAINST the Sharia and not FOR it. HELL NO !!

  19. Unregistered Comment by suboptimal UNITED STATES

    resro,

    Can you please tell us all what the Geneva convention tells us is the proper treatment of non-uniformed combatants?

  20. Unregistered Comment by resro CANADA

    Suboptimal,

    Could you please tell me what the Geneva conventions have to do with justice? Just because it’s law, doesn’t mean it’s just. Why do you expect me to use the Geneva conventions to defend my point?

    The Third Geneva Convention says nothing of non-uniformed combatants, which is why it is not applicable to the situation in Guantanamo, but just because there is no law saying that “enemy combatants” deserve due process, it doesn’t mean they don’t.

  21. Unregistered Comment by LC The Humble Devildog, Imperial Scholar UNITED STATES

    resro,

    The Third Geneva Convention says nothing of non-uniformed combatants, which is why it is not applicable to the situation in Guantanamo, but just because there is no law saying that “enemy combatants” deserve due process, it doesn’t mean they don’t.

    er, sorry, but…you’re WAY wrong on that one.

    NO war fought since the Geneva Conventions were created has EVER had enemy combatants getting “due process”.

    The FACT that the Bush Administration even bothered calling them “enemy combatants” is FAR better treatment than they are allowed under the Geneva Conventions.

    As non-uniformed combatants, they can be shot, out of had, as spies. As non-regular combatants, they can be shot out of hand, as potential escape risks. Uniformed, regular combatants are to be treated on par with the treatment the capturing military uses for its own troops.

    In addition, do you expect the military to obtain search warrants, and justify everything by “probable cause”, before they conduct an operation? Fuck no. Well, sorry. YOU probably do, but, those of us with a Clue;&trade don’t.

    A person puts the uniform on, they take their chances, and hope their opponent follows the rules. A person takes up arms against someone in uniform WITHOUT putting on the uniform, they better hope they’re lucky enough to be fighting against the US, since the US is the ONLY country to have EVER found a “right to due process” for enemy combatants.

    Fucking morons. You fight wars to win. You win them by causing death and destruction where every you can. There ain’t nothin’ “due process” about it.

  22. Unregistered Comment by LC The Humble Devildog, Imperial Scholar UNITED STATES

    oops….

    PIMF

    That should be a Clue™, not the mangalation I typed.

  23. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    Ah…restroom, non-uniformed combatants have always traditionally been shot. A belief I share. Is that why they aren’t mentioned..or is that a matter of convenience? Especially considering I haven’t yet seen a terrorist uniform. Now it is interesting to note not one word has been raised by the left in defense of these Marines….but volumes in defense of these terrorists. I would love a religiously sensitive breakfast, say steak and eggs, taters, coffee, juice and toast. Enough to bring any man back to God. But the most telling line……

    Just because it’s law, doesn’t mean it’s just. Why do you expect me to use the Geneva conventions..

    I don’t…for all those Gitmos prisoners would have ended up as either the hour hand on a tall sundial or a backstop for a rifle range. And being the law does not necessarially mean its just. True enough………..not that this has stopped the left from using it in whatever warped, distorted, opportunistic fashion they can.
    But if somebody haven’t got the fucking guts to don a uniform………..don’t cry to me regarding their treatment. I used to wear one……

  24. Unregistered Trackback by Blue Star Chronicles UNITED STATES

    Demand Justice for the Pendleton 8…

    Seven Marines and one Navy Corpman were arrested in May 2006 following accusations that they had been involved in the murder of a man in Iraq. The accusations were made by Iraqi locals. This accusation came immediately after the accusations that Mari…..

  25. Unregistered Comment by suboptimal UNITED STATES

    resro

    Could you please tell me what the Geneva conventions have to do with justice? Just because it’s law, doesn’t mean it’s just. Why do you expect me to use the Geneva conventions to defend my point?

    The Geneva conventions more or less govern our behavior in combat. Uniformed enemy POWs are treated differently than accused criminals for a reason. If you don’t understand that what that reason is, I will be happy to spell it out for you.

    The Third Geneva Convention says nothing of non-uniformed combatants, which is why it is not applicable to the situation in Guantanamo, but just because there is no law saying that “enemy combatants” deserve due process, it doesn’t mean they don’t.

    I see, so you would have preferred that we had simply shot each of these persons as they were found? That is the usual process for spies and others engaging in combat operations when wearing other than a military uniform.

    Were we to have taken this course, there would be no prisoners at Guantanamo, and you would have had to find something else to whine about.

    Meanwhile, our uniformed service members are being denied thier due process rights as delineated by the UCMJ.