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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Sadam gets the hang of justice

LC Scott uploaded a video to YouTube:

[youtube]DRywCJ5reG8[/youtube]

245 Responses to “Sadam gets the hang of justice”
  1. Lc Scott Comment by Lc Scott UNITED STATES

    Hay DJ I’ve got A video of this on Youtube.

  2. Lc Scott Comment by Lc Scott UNITED STATES

    It stops too short for me but o-well.
    In till some one leeks the video to the web this will have to do.

  3. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Any word of the full version yet?

    And I don’t suppose there is any chance of remastering it in 6.1 DTS? I wanna here the “SNAP” through my centre speaker and feel the “CRACK” through my sub woofer.

  4. Unregistered Comment by NR Pax UNITED STATES

    Not a peep of anything having to do with U.S. support of Saddam, before, during, and after most all of his worst crimes.

    No one here has ever denied that the U.S. used to support the man. But back in that day, Iraq was in a war with Iran and it was in the U.S.’s interest to support Iraq.

    Not a peep about how, with the help of the C.I.A., he was put into power in the first place.

    Any references? Or is this just posing?

    Not a peep about the illegality of the war in the first place.

    What illegality are you referring to? Iraq was defeated and promised to abide by the terms of the surrender. Iraq refused for twelve years to comply and nothing was done by the U.N.. So Sadaam was free to kill people by the truckload and nothing was done.

    And trust me, the media has brought out every criticism of President Bush and the war in Iraq that you can think of.

  5. TDCG23 Comment by TDCG23 UNITED STATES

    Can we get a TROLL cleanup on aisle, err, comment #4 please? :guns_tb:

    And +1 on Tiberius’ request too. :thumbup_tb:

    It’s going to be a Happier New Year!! :clap_tb:

  6. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    TROLL ALERT!

    Hmmm, could this be yet another indication of just how poor public education world wide has become?
    Not a peep about how the U.S. helping him gas the Iranians. Not a peep about how, with the help of the C.I.A., he was put into power in the first place. Not a peep about the illegality of the war in the first place.“….

    Funny how this particular fool showed no credible sources (as if he/she actually had any :razz_wp:) for this ridiculous rant…

    Speaking of ridiculous the Roman Catholic Church is again giving us yet another of its demonstrations of how it can’t come to grips with the real world:

    The Vatican spokesman on Saturday denounced Saddam Hussein’s execution as “tragic” and expressed worry it might fuel revenge and new violence.
    The execution is “tragic and reason for sadness,” the Rev. Federico Lombardi said, speaking in French on Vatican Radio’s French-language news program.

    Hmmm, how appropriate that the Church spokesfool should use the French language in their appeasement statement…

    Apparently the Church forgot that part from the book of Matthew: 22:21: They say to him: Caesar’s. Then he saith to them: Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God, the things that are God’s….

  7. Master Sergeant Comment by Master Sergeant UNITED STATES

    Can we get a TROLL cleanup on aisle, err, comment #4 please?

    Hardly surprising to see that this troll flies the meatball flag — the scurvy pennant of an ungrateful pack of sneaky little backstabbing thugs who merrily claim that the US started WW2 and should pay for the “war crimes” at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And, not incidentally, still perhaps the most racist, xenophobic nation on earth.

    Consider the source. And also consider reinstating our nuclear testing schedule in that area.

  8. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    trollNR Pax said:

    “No one here has ever denied that the U.S. used to support the man. But back in that day, Iraq was in a war with Iran and it was in the U.S.’s interest to support Iraq.”

    Yes, this is a nice copout. It’s been used to support many of the most brutal dictators of our times, as well as throughout history. Perhaps we should be reconsidering whose interest we should be supporting, say, perhaps, the vast majority of the population of these countries. Just a thought.kb

    “Not a peep about how, with the help of the C.I.A., he was put into power in the first place.”(kb)

    “Any references? Or is this just posing?”

    Would you like references? They’re only all over the place. But if you want me to do the work it’ll take all of 1 minute. Are you denying this?kb

    “Not a peep about the illegality of the war in the first place.”(kb)

    “What illegality are you referring to?”

    It’s technically illegal to invade another country. Period!kb

    “Iraq was defeated and promised to abide by the terms of the surrender.”

    Yes, defeated by an illegal invasion. Sort of skipping the basics, aren’t we?kb

    “Iraq refused for twelve years to comply and nothing was done by the U.N.”.

    What do you mean “nothing was done”? What time period are you talking about? Bush 1 and the U.S. were giving him money up until the day before he invaded Kuwait, which, incidentally, is arguably a part of Iraq anyway. Another topic rarely discussed as it’s too revealing. After the weapons inspectors did a pretty thorough job of getting the weapons that DID exist, until they were ran out for obvious reasons, and after years of sanctions, Iraq was of NO threat to anyone, including both Iran, Kuwait, and the other surrounding countries, all of whom had even started to make new relations. This surely couldn’t be allowed. I don’t know what time you’re referring to.kb

    “So Sadaam was free to kill people by the truckload and nothing was done.”

    When? Kill whom? You can’t possibly mean the gassings. Who are you talking about? Those killed following the assassination attempt? Slightly less than the number of U.S. troops killed already for oil. Do you have “any references”?kb

    “And trust me, the media has brought out every criticism of President Bush and the war in Iraq that you can think of.”

    The corporate-controlled and quite conservative media brought up nothing of importance. That they make slight statements about Bush, all of which are far too easy on the man, are for the most part meaningless. It’s as if they criticized him for his Bushisms rather than what he’s actually done wrong. The media ALWAYS does this. What’s revealing is that even THIS nothingness is viewed as being overly critical to the president when it’s actually less than zero. Here’s a Christmas present for you:(And there really are actually people who believe the media are liberal, too, you know)::

    Right Wing Media Critics: Seeing Things Which Aren’t There

    MSM: “Today the President twisted his ankle while jogging.”

    RWMC: See?! There they go again with their liberal bias! Trying to make the president look bad again. Why didn’t they point out all of those steps he had taken earlier when he didn’t twist his ankle? There were many more of these steps. They only point out the negatives. This was taken out of context. They’re trying to make him look bad! They always do this! The signs couldn’t be more obvious!

    KB: Huh? What the hell are you talking about? They said he twisted is ankle. Everything else is emerging from your warped imagination.

    RWMC: Well, of course this is what we’d expect YOU to say, you’re a liberal. You just can’t see it because you think like they do. It’s just sooo obvious. Ask Coulter, she’ll tell you.KB

    KB: Actually, this was an example of conservative bias. Had the media told the entire story they would have pointed out that the reason Bush twisted his ankle in the first place was that he was trying to run a protestor off the jogging trail and twisted his ankle when he pushed the protestors wheelchair into the pond while screaming “So what if it was for oil!”

    The End

    Kropotkin Beard

    There! THIS is the way the media actually works, and those who study the media are quite well aware of this. And by study, I hardly mean the comic book drivel places like Accuracy in Media puts out. This is little more than The National Enquirer.kb

    This takes us to the next…uhh…whatever :TDCG23 who says:

    “Can we get a TROLL cleanup on aisle, err, comment #4 please?”

    Can we have a challenge of some sort instaed of the usual call for banning the righ wing blogs are famous for, please? I consider discussing the issues in detail, especially details which your type runs from, IS not trolling at all. I’d consider trolling as someone who comes to a blog to scream pseudo-patriotic nonsense, cheerleading, and thinking this somehow makes them…uhh…special? It doesn’t. Make an argument or go to a knitting blog and complain about trolling there.kb

    “And +1 on Tiberius’ request too.”

    (snore)kb

    “It’s going to be a Happier New Year!!”

    Yeah, really. Now you can just flush all of the other inconvenient facts down the memory hole which probably would have emerged had Saddam been spared and squeezed for more information. But this is not quite accurate. This infers that you knew the facts to begin with and I doubt this very much, especially the uncomfortable facts. You know, the kind your type beleives is a demonstration of ones “anti-Americanism” simply because they know the facts.kb

    NEXT! juandos said:

    “Hmmm, could this be yet another indication of just how poor public education world wide has become?”

    You mean that the other commenters didn’t even seem to be aware of the basic facts which I mentioned above? Yes, you are probably correct.kb

    “Not a peep about how the U.S. helping him gas the Iranians. Not a peep about how, with the help of the C.I.A., he was put into power in the first place. Not a peep about the illegality of the war in the first place.“….(kb)

    Yes, these are only a few of the basics.kb

    “Funny how this particular fool showed no credible sources (as if he/she actually had any ) for this ridiculous rant…”

    Sources? For what? I didn’t say anything the least bit controversial that would need any sources. I say that the eath rotates around the sun, and not vias versa as the right still believes, with referring to Copernicus, too. Was there something I said which you found controversial? Nothing I mentioned is the least BIT controversial. Not even any issues at all. Did you have something YOU wished to challenge, or were you just going to whine like the other fellow, call me a troll, and hope that I’m banned in typical totalitarian/authoritarian manner, which would be similar to Saddam’s style actually?kb

    “Speaking of ridiculous the Roman Catholic Church is again giving us yet another of its demonstrations of how it can’t come to grips with the real world:”

    Oh, like it thinks killing is wrong? Yes, how “un-Christian” could they be. I mean, what were they thinking? After all, they used to kill people, too, right and left before they grew out of this diseased phase.kb

    “The Vatican spokesman on Saturday denounced Saddam Hussein’s execution as “tragic” and expressed worry it might fuel revenge and new violence.”

    Well, that it will cause more violence isn’t a serious question at all. Of course it will. You weren’t inferring that it wouldn’t, are you? You aren’t thinking that the entire country of Iraq is going to be jumping up and down cheering, are you? I mean, given that 80-90% or so view the U.S. presence as an occupation, NOT a liberating force, AS WELL AS the moajority wanting the U.S. out, yes, I’d say there’s a pretty good chance that the violence will get worse.kb

    “The execution is “tragic and reason for sadness,” the Rev. Federico Lombardi said, speaking in French on Vatican Radio’s French-language news program.…”

    Yes. Killing people is wrong. Or at least it is to moral people. And supporting killers is wrong, too, as the U.S. did, before, during, and after he “gassed his own people”. Oh, and to the commenter above who thought that at the time this made it okay, we didn’t really quite get the results we were looking for in either place, huh? Haven’t even gotten into what business we had there in the first place. None.kb

    “Hmmm, how appropriate that the Church spokesfool should use the French language in their appeasement statement…”

    Yes, those horrible French who gave you the Statue of Liberty. It’s just too bad that you pseudo-patriots haven’t a clue as to what democracy means, and are constantly hostile to it.kb

    “Apparently the Church forgot that part from the book of Matthew: 22:21: They say to him: Caesar’s. Then he saith to them: Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God, the things that are God’s….”

    Yes, the Bible says lots of things. So does Harry Potter.kb

    [blockquotes added to make this more readable — DJ]

  9. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    We have the clueless TROLL back… :lol_wp:

    Yet another indicator how this piss skined rice monger (meatball flag after all) is still living on his/its inability to come to grips with reality: “I didn’t say anything the least bit controversial that would need any sources“…

    Apparently not saying anything, “FACTUAL” isn’t a problem with you either, right?

    Still the piss skined rice monger persists in his/its inane stupidity: “Yes. Killing people is wrong. Or at least it is to moral people” unless one is a terrorist towel head apparently…

    I’m wait for sharia to come to your town so you too can feel the kiss of the plastic shredder… :lol_wp:

    Meanwhile back in the real world, a world where piss skined rice monger apparently fears to tread we have the following: “I saw fear, he was afraid,” Ali told NEWSWEEK minutes after returning from the execution

  10. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

    Not a peep about how, with the help of the C.I.A., he was put into power in the first place.”(kb)…“Any references? Or is this just posing?”…Would you like references? They’re only all over the place. But if you want me to do the work it’ll take all of 1 minute. Are you denying this?kb

    Um, Yeah. Nice dodge. Instead of piously pontificating, how about providing a legitimate source to back up your dubious claim.

    It better be good troll-san, else I blindfold you with dental floss!

  11. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Would you like references? They’re only all over the place. But if you want me to do the work it’ll take all of 1 minute.

    Well come on then, dipshit. I’m pretty sure it’s been more than 1 minute.

    Fuckwit.

  12. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    Oh Jeebus, where to begin? (And the coffee’s not even finished brewing yet.)

    kb, for starters LEARN TO USE THE LITTLE FUCKIN’ “B-Quote” button up above the comment box. (It makes keeping your idiocy separate from the coherent arguments a lot easier on the eyes. Wouldn’t want to have someone get confused and mistakenly think that you could have typed a sentient thought, when you were only quoting someone with a functioning cerebral cortex.)

    Secondly, what flavor is the Kool-Aid® you’ve been drinking these many years? Or do you prefer the Variety Pak®?

    Not a peep of anything having to do with U.S. support of Saddam, before, during, and after most all of his worst crimes.

    Apparently they didn’t go over a little thing called “The American Embassy Hostage Crisis in Iran” during your so-called “education“.

    Not a peep about how up until the day before Kuwait Bush I gave him another billion.

    It was called “Purchasing Oil To Run American Industry & Cars”. We were also just trying to keep his “Baby Milk Factories” up and running. Ya know, we’re kinda suckers when it comes to helping keep The Chiiiiiiiiildren™ fed.

    Not a peep about how the U.S. helping him gas the Iranians.

    :lol_wp: Helping him use Soviet/Fwench chemicals and machinery to manufacture the gas and Soviet gunships to deliver it?

    Not a peep about how, with the help of the C.I.A., he was put into power in the first place.

    Hmmmmmmmmmm. That’s a new one. Which way do you want it? Do you want Sod’em in power or not? Make up your mind, you drooling retard.

    Not a peep about the illegality of the war in the first place.

    Which war would you be referring to, my little oxygen-starved friend? GWI or its continuation, GWII? Also, since you seem to be the Font of All Knowledge™ when it comes to Illegal Wars™, would you mind letting us all know precisely what constitutes a Legal War™?

    How about Sod’em invading Iran and murdering at least 1,000,000 Iranians (With a HUGE number of them being teenagers.) in his 8 year-long war with them? What about his invading Kuwait, murdering thousands of Kuwaitis, looting the entire country and then, when he was getting his ass handed to him by a coalition military, creating the worst man-made environmental disaster in history?

    Yea! Whoopee! We helped kill a killer who we supported!

    If the family dog comes down with rabies & starts biting the neighbors and snarling at you when you go to feed him, you just have to put him down. It’s sad, we know, but sometimes you just have to do what you have to do…

    (More to come…)

  13. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Gateway Pundit notes: “If Ever You Needed Proof of Insanity of America’s Left- Look Now!

    The Butcher of Baghdad who murdered and tortured and raped hundreds of thousands of Iraqis is dead today and the left is Upset(?)

    Don’t ever allow a Leftist to lecture you on human rights again… Ever.

    Amen!

  14. Mope, Imperial Knucklehead Comment by Mope, Imperial Knucklehead UNITED STATES

    You sure use a lot of bandwidth. I certainly hope you have the decency to place a few Yen in the donation box.

    Yes, those horrible French who gave you the Statue of Liberty. It’s just too bad that you pseudo-patriots haven’t a clue as to what democracy means, and are constantly hostile to it.kb

    I’d be glad to trade their statue for the remains of our guys buried over there. You know, the guys that died so the Fwench didn’t have to live under the yoke of Nazism.

    As for being a “pseudo-patriot”, it is preferrable over pseudo-traitor.

  15. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    “Holy Sheep Shi’ite, Batman!” This one sucks more bandwidth than Rosie O’Donut’s shadow… Such much idiocy, so little time…

    kb, do they package & sell your particular brand of Uber Sooper Stoopid™? :dunce_tb:
    One could make a veritable fortune at a St. Shitcan, The DitchBitch™, Anti-Testicle Festival.

  16. Unregistered Comment by Clarion UNITED STATES

    kb — Generally, if you make a statement, it’s incumbent on you to provide the references. In the world of debate, saying that they’re so obvious that you should be able to find them yourself usually means that you don’t have any.

    So, provide the ref’s please, or your argument will be ignored as mindless bloviating.

    Now, as to the argument — illegal war? That statement has always given me the eyerolls. When in history has any war been “legal”? The UN makes a war legal? Then why aren’t you wailing and moaning about the Thai military coup? Or Darfur? Or the Maoist insurgency in Nepal? Ever heard of any of these? Funny, I don’t think the UN actually gave permission to any of these nations to engage in any of these activities. In fact, the UN has stood by silently while genocide takes place. Hmm, funny about all that posturing.

    Also, Saddam violated 17 UN Security Council resolutions, repeatedly and systematically. Some of those resolutions authorize the member states to use force to enforce them. So, rather than defying the United Nations, we’re actually enforcing the resolutions.

    I’m on vacation this weekend so may not be able to debate in a fast or timely fashion, but surely even you understand that Hussein needed to hang? Mass graves? People fed into shredders? Halabja? Hellooo out there.

  17. Unregistered Comment by Clarion UNITED STATES

    Wow, I forgot to close a tag. Fixy, nice mods? Please?

  18. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    St. Shitcan, The DitchBitch™, Anti-Testicle Festival

    Wow! Yet another excellent display verbal fisticuffs by the BC Imperial Torturer

    Dang! You do have a way with words IT Man… :clap_tb:

  19. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    Storm, put the URL in a comment and I’ll fix it. It was missing in the “Edit” mode. ;)

  20. LC Jackboot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC Jackboot IC/A-OBR UNITED STATES

    #20-

    Dang it, the other janitor beat me to it.

    Nice Mods“…who would that be in here?

    :devil_tb:

    Surely you must be confusing us with another site?

    …stop..calling me Shirley, dammit.

  21. Lady Heather Comment by Lady Heather UNITED STATES

    BC,

    That bitchslapping above is a thing of beauty™.

    KB,

    Invest your yen in a (real) World History course, instead of spewing the usual leftist, anti-American talking points that get regurgitated around here far too often. Frankly, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

    Or are you just upset with us because we executed Tojo?

  22. Dick Comment by Dick

    KB, it’s early.
    Do us all a favor and suck on the business end of a .45, would ya? By the way, you’re starting to look a bit silly walking around wearing a dunce hat and all.
    Just saying…

  23. Unregistered Comment by CKO1986 UNITED STATES

    What the Kurds do on his grave won’t pass for flowers neither. ;)

    Happy New Year, Your Majesty. :)

  24. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    Apparently “kb” is still furiously Googling™ for those CIA connections to Sodamned Insane’s bloody coup. That’s one loooooong minute there, my little neuronically-challenged helmet-wearer.

    “Type faster, little monkey! Type faster!”

    :lol_wp:

  25. Light29ID Comment by Light29ID

    juandos, you think the Huffies are pissed? Take look at what the DU is saying (bows to the DUmmie FUnnies)

    Tasteful execution. Jesus. What have we become? I have been looking for the comparison figures on how many Iraqis Saddam killed, versus how many have died in Bush’s illegal war.

    I would rather see Saddam live to testify in Bush’s war crimes trial. I imagine this is why Saddam received such a speedy trial, sentence, rejected appeal, and execution date set before congress changes hands.

    I can hardly think about it….discuss it… I feel like our entire society has become the mob that would sell postcards of a lynching… I feel so damned nauseated. But yes, if it comes down to it, I wish Saddam would act to “steal their thunder” too.

    Fine bunch…fuckers

  26. LC Jackboot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC Jackboot IC/A-OBR UNITED STATES

    Well ‘kb’ whatsa mattah? Google-Jap server not workee?

    Guess since he’s from an alternate universe the minutes don’t convert correctly.

    I would rather see Saddam live to testify in Bush’s war crimes trial.

    Give us an addy and we’ll have the Kurds ship his rotting carcass to you for the “trial witness”. Weekend at Bernies technique to depose the witness would work for you, no?

    Nauseated? Swilling jugs of that socialist shit-tainted semen will do that to you. What does Lenin’s left-testicle taste like?

    Two monkeys- One Monkey Fuck

  27. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    Well, that it will cause more violence isn’t a serious question at all. Of course it will. You weren’t inferring that it wouldn’t, are you? You aren’t thinking that the entire country of Iraq is going to be jumping up and down cheering, are you? I mean, given that 80-90% or so view the U.S. presence as an occupation, NOT a liberating force, AS WELL AS the moajority wanting the U.S. out, yes, I’d say there’s a pretty good chance that the violence will get worse.kb

    This is the part where you lost me, KB. While you are correct that 80-90 percent of Iraqis view us as occupiers and would rather see us leave, there is about an equal number who would have cheered if Saddam had been dipped in a mild acid and run slowly through a wood chipper. This isn’t a case of either they hate Saddam or they hate us, neither is exclusive to the other.

    Those who like Saddam will probably step up their violence in retaliation for his death, but that is a very small percentage of the Iraqi violence. The rest will step up their violence just because they can. The death of Saddam will not be the reason.

    Still the piss skined rice monger persists in his/its inane stupidity: “Yes. Killing people is wrong. Or at least it is to moral people” unless one is a terrorist towel head apparently…

    Aside from the obvious racism in that statement, aren’t you making an assumption that KB is a “piss skinned (sic) rice monger” based on the only fact that he/she just happens to be posting from Japan? Egads man, couldn’t you find some other non-racial slur to call him/her?

    “I saw fear, he was afraid,” Ali told NEWSWEEK minutes after returning from the execution…

    Thus spoke Captain Obvious. Of course you would expect to see fear from someone having a noose tightened around their neck knowing that the laws of gravity was likely to become suddenly responsible for their death. I think that anyone here would be afraid too.

    kb, for starters LEARN TO USE THE LITTLE FUCKIN’ “B-Quote” button up above the comment box. (It makes keeping your idiocy separate from the coherent arguments a lot easier on the eyes. Wouldn’t want to have someone get confused and mistakenly think that you could have typed a sentient thought, when you were only quoting someone with a functioning cerebral cortex.)

    I fixed that for you, BC.

    “Nice Mods“…who would that be in here?

    I’ll claim that title if nobody wants it. :lol_wp:

    juandos, you think the Huffies are pissed? Take look at what the DU is saying (bows to the DUmmie FUnnies)

    I’m starting to suspect that there are more Right-wingers going to DU than there are Left-wingers who contribute to that site.

  28. TPCrasher78 Comment by TPCrasher78 UNITED STATES

    KB, here’s an official quote by an officer, when Harry Truman asked if we should drop the atomic bomb.

    ‘Yes sir, by all means! Drop THAT FUCKER, twice!’

    Forecast for Hiroshima, August 6, 1945. Cloud cover, mushroom shaped. Gusty winds of over 200 mph and a daytime high of 2 million degrees.

    So sorry.

    Sorry are we for dropping the bomb on the Japanese

    So sorry you bastards weren’t for:

    PEARL Fucking HARBOR! December 7, 1941 you treacherous swine bombed sleeping US naval and army personnel on a Sunday, before and during church services. Fuck you!

    The Rape of Nanking- over 100,000 Chinese murdered and mutilated.
    Genocide in China- resulted in over 10 million dead.
    Medical experiments in Manchuria- gas, chemicals, bullets, and dissecting live POWs just to see live organs pulsate, for fun.
    The Bataan Death March
    The Railway of Death
    POW treatment in general
    Beheading and eating captured airmen and other prisoners
    The Manila Massacres
    Corregidor
    Wake Island
    Guam

    Fuck you, you Jap bastard!

    And fuck you for killing my great uncle on Luzon when he tried helping liberate the Phillippines from you slant eyed motherfuckers!

  29. Wild-Eyed Charlie Comment by Wild-Eyed Charlie UNITED STATES

    It better be good troll-san, else I blindfold you with dental floss!

    Or a windshield…

  30. Unregistered Comment by Flaming Liberal UNITED STATES

    Me again, back after a prolonged absence. Hopefully the joy of the season, the celebration of the birth of humanity’s greatest moral leader, has left you with residual goodwill toward men. ALL men (women and children).

    SO, Saddam’s dead. This is a good thing, IMHO, yes, lib that I am.

    Nonetheless, I’m not certain that anyone reading this who has actually READ the New Testament - and believes it to be the revealed Word - can as fully rejoice. Jesus was transformative because his was a vision of love. It ultimately brought down the Roman Empire that put him to the cross (see the Emperor Constantine). It ain’t an easy course to follow - and times like this show us why. Love your enemies? Tough under this circumstance. Then again, as a Godless liberal it’s easier for me.

    I’m just saying, please leave any pretense of being an Actual Christian at the door if you come to this bloodthirsty I’m Glad He’s Dead party. And don’t think you can just pick it up again on your way out.

    He’s keeping score.

  31. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I UNITED STATES

    To return to the subject of the post for a second (and then, by all means, continue your righteous ClueSlapping of our new troll. It is ever so delightful to watch), can I just say how much I love your choice of headline, DJ?

    Perfect, I tells you.

  32. Unregistered Comment by Azygos UNITED STATES

    Interesting that the press can show Nick Berg getting his head sawn off but can’t show a brutal dictator who is responsible for maybe 1 ½ million deaths getting hung?

    Liberal

    Seem to remember Jesus saying something about he had come to fulfill the law, nothing about discarding it. So please take your righteous spew back to the bible and read a little closer.

  33. LC Mrs. M Comment by LC Mrs. M

    aren’t you making an assumption that KB is a “piss skinned (sic) rice monger” based on the only fact that he/she just happens to be posting from Japan?

    Oh geeez!! I KNOW it’s time for caffeine when there is something Allen said that I have to agree with.
    He might be showing he’s in Japan guys…but he sounds way too much like a San Franciscan Edumacated Moonbat if ever there was one. You know I’m generally one to jump on the insult wagon along with the rest of you, but maybe you should back off the “Jap” references on this one.

    Besides…it looks like kb is a hit and run troll. He blew his wad on that long screeching screed and he’s passed out on the floor sucking his thumb.

  34. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    I’d have to agree with DJ Dave & Mrs. M. :ponder_tb:

  35. Kristopher Comment by Kristopher UNITED STATES

    Someone will put the whole thing on the intarWeb thingy soon enough.

  36. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    can I just say how much I love your choice of headline, DJ?

    Saddly, I cannot claim it as my own. That actually came from the Boston Herald. They say imitation is the best form of flatery. (or is is flatuence?)

  37. Trooper THX1138 Comment by Trooper THX1138 UNITED STATES

    I have to agree here. While Japan was responsible for all atrocities mentioned above, in comment #29, methinks they paid the full penalty for them. KB is an asshat, yes, but can’t we simply confine our insults to that realm, rather than stooping to racially inflaming insults? I get enough of being stereotyped as a racist hate-monger at work.

  38. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    Interesting that the press can show Nick Berg getting his head sawn off but can’t show a brutal dictator who is responsible for maybe 1 ½ million deaths getting hung?

    From what I understand is Iraq has yet to release the entire video. I am sure that within seconds of the full release, it will be splashed all over the ‘net.

    Liveleak has more of the video:

    Then there is the after view:

    And if you like Hyenas:

    And for BC:

  39. Trooper THX1138 Comment by Trooper THX1138 UNITED STATES

    And those who wish for a play-by-play recount, visit this link: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53570

  40. purple raider Comment by purple raider UNITED STATES

    KB said:

    The corporate-controlled and quite conservative media brought up nothing of importance.

    Anyone who thinks the mainstream media is conservative is living in a dream world, and cannot ever back up his claims.

    Next time KB, use Reynolds Extra Heavy Duty Foil.

  41. Unregistered Comment by ClimbingFreeman UNITED STATES

    It’s getting sickening watching the wailing & gnashing of teeth over this from the liberals. I guess they’ve conviently forgotten that even Clinton had outlined plans for ousting Saddam from power in Iraq. And all those crimes Saddam and his regime commited aren’t worth the price of justice that justice demands; no, it’s more of a punishment to let Saddam live in prison, to be able to critsize his enemies, write his trashy romance novels and eat Dorritos than to let the Iraqis hang him.

  42. Master Sergeant Comment by Master Sergeant UNITED STATES

    Or are you just upset with us because we executed Tojo?

    It was probably a mistake not to hang Hirohito and most of that royal family of myopic dwarves, who were just as guilty as Tojo but didn’t have the guts to do the honorable thing like Anami or Murai.

    I suspect our troll is one of those mindless little robots who regularly pays his respects to the Class-A war criminals at the Yasukuni shrine.

    You must be patient while he collects his research material. It takes a lot of time to peel off that many bumper stickers.

  43. Unregistered Pingback by Right on the Right » Saddam Hussein Coverage Part 2

    […] Update2: The entire execution isn’t online yet, but there is video of Saddam being prepared to death. The picture below, with his noose fitted, is seen in the video. Misha has the video. […]

  44. Master Sergeant Comment by Master Sergeant UNITED STATES

    I’m just saying, please leave any pretense of being an Actual Christian at the door if you come to this bloodthirsty I’m Glad He’s Dead party. And don’t think you can just pick it up again on your way out.

    As an equally godless conservative, I find it interesting that you try to use your interpretation of the New Testament to argue against capital punishment, particularly since the overwhelming majority of Christian scholars never found that particular interpretation until fairly recent times. Like most Biblical interpretations, it tends to follow popular culture more than any real scholastic research. Like adding “New! Improved!” to the packaging, it’s all about marketing the product in this secular age.

  45. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

    MS, I went surfing on an entirely unrelated blog and look who’s the first commenter. :surprised_tb: :wallbash_tb: :thumbdown_tb:

  46. Trooper THX1138 Comment by Trooper THX1138 UNITED STATES

    It’s odd, I could swear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it says that the State has not only the right, but the duty in some cases, to demand the ultimate punishment for certain crimes and persons. Kinda hard to make the case for leniency for Saddam Hussein, or any of his ilk.

    Should we cheer at his death? I dunno. I tend not to do so, but I find I have to make an exception this time. I do feel a great deal of satisfaction that justice has been served. (and far more quickly than here in California.)

    Just remember that the Vatican’s spokesholes most often speak from their own biases (which can be considerable, as they sometimes lose sight of their duty to God in pursuing their political goals.) They don’t speak from a position of infallibility or with any more moral authority than any other priest.

  47. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    MS, I went surfing on an entirely unrelated blog and look who’s the first commenter.

    Maybe KB is a Trollbot? You know, kinda like a Spambot.

    Just kidding though.

  48. Mike M Comment by Mike M UNITED STATES

    Maybe KB is a Trollbot?

    For what it’s worth, it dropped the same load over at Ace of Spades - a regular little Johnny Appleseed of trolls.

  49. LC Mrs. M Comment by LC Mrs. M

    Well he’s got the cut and paste function down….but chances are he never really wrote all that drivel in the first place. Any bets on his having swiped it from another moonbat? Even I will change lines and structures when I’m posting to similar articles and threads, instead of just pasting the same thing over and over. But then these empty headed Kool aid drinkers don’t have too much imagination.

  50. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit UNITED STATES

    San-Fran Moonbat, Japanese national or even Godzilla’s love-child, doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t do our case and position much good to degenerate into petty racism you honky-cracker sons of bitches! :)

    I’ve no vast love for the actions of Japan during WWII, being as they butchered their way across my grandmothers home of Burma forcing her to displace on foot at an age most of us aren’t even ready to start school.

    However, that is in the past. Are we going to go down this path and have everything our forebears did thrown in our face as “proof” of current misdeeds?

    I’m pretty sure the English side of my heritage has been everywhere there is and left corpses and sorrows aplenty, it’s part of having an Empire after all….. Does that make me a bad person, madman or criminal? And while we’re digging up old crimes, does anyone know what happened to all those tribes of folks who used to be around here? You know the ones with all the horses and stuff?

    By all means, tear KB the Clueless a new arsehole, then pack it with nails and napalm before you send it on it’s way…… But resorting to racial slurs based on assumptions is not only lame, it’s too fucking lazy for you lot. Originality people, originality!

  51. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    I’ve no vast love for the actions of Japan during WWII, being as they butchered their way across my grandmothers home of Burma forcing her to displace on foot at an age most of us aren’t even ready to start school.

    However, that is in the past. Are we going to go down this path and have everything our forebears did thrown in our face as “proof” of current misdeeds?

    Exactly.

  52. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck


    By the way, we were winning more hearts and minds in the Middle East with our music and technology than losing them PRIOR to Baby Bush’s invasion.

    Posted by: civil behavior on December 30, 2006 12:31 PM

    Ace gets the trolls’ trolls! :wacko_tb:

  53. LC Ranger 6 Comment by LC Ranger 6 UNITED STATES

    does anyone know what happened to all those tribes of folks who used to be around here? You know the ones with all the horses and stuff?

    We’re still here, we just traded our horses and stuff for poker chips.

    All your casinos are belong to us!!

  54. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    All your casinos are belong to us!!

    Don’t we pale faces know it! :lol_wp:

  55. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    And in other news…a badly mangled troll was found under the bridge of The Imperial Castle, the troll appears to have been beaten with a Cluebat…sources close to the investigation say that several rotts are suspected in the mauling, other witnesses also report a rabid toy poodle (DJ) joined the fray…The Imperial press room had no comment.

  56. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    Hey whoever came up with the little flag from whatever country you post from…that’s pretty f’n cool…!! NOW do you people believe I live in Kuwait?…HA!

  57. sig94 Comment by sig94 UNITED STATES

    Capital Punishment is in the New Testament also.

    Romans 13
    1 Let every soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God.
    2 So that the one resisting the authority resists the ordinance of God; and the ones who resist will receive judgment to themselves.
    3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same:
    4 for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil.

    We are to submit ourselves to the authority God has placed over us. The Governor isn’t baring the sword in a strip tease. That’s “bearing” the sword preparing to take your head off. Gubmint is supposed to do the avenging in God’s place. God says “Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay” (Heb. 10:30).

    Saddam just got paid in rope.

  58. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    Hey whoever came up with the little flag from whatever country you post from…that’s pretty f’n cool…!! NOW do you people believe I live in Kuwait?…HA!

    That be me, of course. (who else would it have been?)

    Now it makes you wonder about KB. Is he stationed in Japan? The assumption by some here is that he is Japanese, but the only certainty is that whoever he or she is, he posted out of Japan.

  59. sig94 Comment by sig94 UNITED STATES

    How come LC Mrs. M doesn’t have a little flaggie thingie? Is she the woman without a country or does her ISP have an identity crisis?

  60. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    How come LC Mrs. M doesn’t have a little flaggie thingie? Is she the woman without a country or does her ISP have an identity crisis?

    That’s a pretty good question. Lemme see what is up with the script.

  61. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    That be me, of course. (who else would it have been?)

    DJ,
    Well since you ask …. you like any “webmaster” are so called …because there’s a reason the term “master” is used..it’s all hocus pocus voodoo black magic ..you people that do this stuff??
    ..I firmly think also practice witch-craft and chant mysterious phrases while sacrificing small animals in the wee hours of the morning….you are truly “masters” of the black arts…J/K…nice touch as always.

  62. jaybear Comment by jaybear UNITED STATES

    Sig94 sez:

    How come LC Mrs. M doesn’t have a little flaggie thingie? Is she the woman without a country or does her ISP have an identity crisis?

    During the Civil War, the leaders never carried the flag except in very dire situations…like the entire color guard being shot down…maybe Mrs M has more authority here than we know…..

    (said as I throw a salute her way )

  63. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    That’s a pretty good question. Lemme see what is up with the script.

    Nonsense!! What he really is doing is going out to kill yet another chipmunk and offer it to the ISP gods so LC Mrs. M’s flag will magically appear and all of us mere mortals can go..”oooo…..ahhhhhh”….

    :lol_tb:

  64. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    DJ,
    Well since you ask …. you like any “webmaster” are so called …because there’s a reason the term “master” is used..it’s all hocus pocus voodoo black magic ..you people that do this stuff??
    ..I firmly think also practice witch-craft and chant mysterious phrases while sacrificing small animals in the wee hours of the morning….you are truly “masters” of the black arts…J/K…nice touch as always.

    Harry Potter and the Rott?

  65. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    Harry Potter and the Rott?

    Ummm…Not so sure it will pass the “Childrens Book” test..but it does have a nice ring to it. LOL

  66. Light29ID Comment by Light29ID

    A couple of comments:

    a) Didn’t anybody teach those guys to tie a good hangman’s noose? And where did they get that rope in the first place? You could tow a semi with that thing…

    b) When and where can I buy the t-shirt?

    I am an evil bastard :devil_tb:

  67. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Now it makes you wonder about KB. Is he stationed in Japan? The assumption by some here is that he is Japanese, but the only certainty is that whoever he or she is, he posted out of Japan.

    Or, he’s going through an anonymizer in Japan?

  68. LC Mrs. M Comment by LC Mrs. M

    How come LC Mrs. M doesn’t have a little flaggie thingie?

    I’ve been wondering that myself Sig. *sniff* (letting one single feminine tear roll down her cheek)
    *hey…it works on M pretty well*

    During the Civil War, the leaders never carried the flag except in very dire situations…like the entire color guard being shot down…maybe Mrs M has more authority here than we know…..

    You ah of cawse reeferin to the Wah of Nawthun Awgressun Dahlin. Ah Deah Leadahs most certainly put themselves in the midst of battle when it was necessareh, but they knew NOT to carry anything that would point themselves out to the enemeh.

    That’s a pretty good question. Lemme see what is up with the script.

    Thanks Allyn, I also have no way to get to my account stats so I can upload an avitar. There USED to be a link there, but it seems to have gone the way of my flaggie thingie. :lol_wp:

  69. Mope, Imperial Knucklehead Comment by Mope, Imperial Knucklehead UNITED STATES

    Light29ID said:

    Didn’t anybody teach those guys to tie a good hangman’s noose? And where did they get that rope in the first place? You could tow a semi with that thing…

    You know, I noticed that, too. The knot is supposed to be wrapped thirteen times. I counted it twice and only came up with ten. I say do it again and this time, do it properly.

    Also, isn’t it like the Kos Kiddies to complain when he was hanged with a brand new rope?

  70. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911 UNITED STATES

    You ah of cawse reeferin to the Wah of Nawthun Awgressun Dahlin.

    swoon

  71. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    Also, isn’t it like the Kos Kiddies to complain when he was hanged with a brand new rope?

    Oh, as in a virgin rope? They do seem to have issues with these things. As for the left? I expect nothing else, they do a fine job of living down to my lowest expectations.

  72. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    troll

    juandos drooled:

    “We have the clueless TROLL back…”

    Who are you talking about? ALso, you’ve never defined what you mean by “troll”. Most often the label is used by people without arguments to divert attention away from them not having arguments. It’s pretty much on par with pointing out how many commas weren’t used. Anyway, if you think you wish to try and make an argument, go for it.kb

    “Yet another indicator how this piss skined rice monger (meatball flag after all)”

    Awww…Isn’t that sweet? He can call names, too. Notice how he hasn’t even approached trying to make an argument of any sort yet, just the usual right-wing whining.kb

    “is still living on his/its inability to come to grips with reality: “I didn’t say anything the least bit controversial that would need any sources“…”

    Yes, this is correct. I DIDN’T say anything the least bit controversial, at least to those who know the facts. Example: Two days ago Saddam was alive. Today he’s dead. Now, that was difficult. Shall I give you sources for this, too? I can, you know? Probably about as many as the other factual data which I mentioned. Simply because you may be clueless as to the facts of certain topics there’s not really a reason why you should start squealing like a little scorned child. I’d advise you to start this thing called reading. Ever heard of it?kb

    “Apparently not saying anything, “FACTUAL” isn’t a problem with you either, right?”

    You can say all the non-factual things you want. Doesn’t really matter much to me as I’m into factual materials. You can claim the world is flat and that the sun rotates around the earth if you want, but you’d better have evidence to back it up. I have evidence, plenty of it, to the contrary. Same with anything else I’ve mentioned thus far. Were you going to make an argument sometime before global warming killed off all live on earth, or just keep whining and drooling on yourself?kb

    “Still the piss skined rice monger persists in his/its inane stupidity: “Yes. Killing people is wrong. Or at least it is to moral people” “

    This quote is a demonstration of “stupidity”? Well, I guess if you’re Charlie Manson, Son of Sam, Hitler, or any number of other folks it could be viewed as a demonstration of stupidity.kb

    “unless one is a terrorist towel head apparently…”

    Not a racist comment here, eh? “Towel head”? I’d say that a knitting blo for bored housewives, or perhaps a blog where angry right-wingers can go to share their feelings with each other about the how’s and why’s they view the world so negatively simply because they were raised see everything as fallen by nature (themselves being somewhat good indicators that there may be something to the argument), can all sit around and whine and cry together. I mean, after all, reading is probably out of the question, yes?kb

    “I’m wait for sharia to come to your town so you too can feel the kiss of the plastic shredder…”

    How poetic. Are you referring to those folks who YOU supported for many years without knowing about it, or are you talking about those other fellows who you supported for many years without knowing about it? You’re as clear as right wing mud tends to be. Still no argument, just babbling and whining.kb

    “Meanwhile back in the real world”

    As of this sentence you have given no indication that you’re the least bit aware of the real world. Maybe it’s just a little further down the page. Let’s see.kb

    “a world where piss skined rice monger apparently fears to tread we have the following: “I saw fear, he was afraid,” Ali told NEWSWEEK minutes after returning from the execution…”

    What’s this supposed to mean? Someone who was about to be hanged may have been scared? Duhhh. Actually, I just heard an interview with one of the judges who was there that said Saddam wasn’t afraid at all until the end. Either way, doesn’t really matter and is a diversion from you accepting responsibility for your having supported him for many years, during, which should not be forgotten BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER his by far worst crimes. I thought you right wingers were into people taking responsibility for their actions. Hypocrites! Can’t even do it on something as non-controversial as your supporting a murdering dictator for years while he’s killing his own population. By the way, there are MANY more examples of similar support having taken place with other murdering criminals. Would you like a list of these, too, as I’m sure you’re completely oblivious to knowing anything about them. (Here’s your first bit of homework: See John Stockwell video stream ‘Six Million Killed’) I’ll be waiting for some sort of response. However, if you’re just going to call names because you haveno game, just stay in the toilet with your vile Ann Coulter poster for another week.kb
    ——————————————————
    Radical Redneck said:

    “Not a peep about how, with the help of the C.I.A., he was put into power in the first place.”(kb)…“Any references? Or is this just posing?”…Would you like references? They’re only all over the place. But if you want me to do the work it’ll take all of 1 minute. Are you denying this?kb

    “Um, Yeah. Nice dodge. Instead of piously pontificating, how about providing a legitimate source to back up your dubious claim.”

    Well, first of all my claim is about as “dubious” as the claim that the world is round. Secondly, since when do right-wingers insist on evidence for anything? I mean, I think it’s great that you have, if, in fact, you’ve broken rank with the other 99.99999% of the right and demaded evidence, but I DO hope you plan on making some sort of effort at looking at it, or even better, trying to investigate it for yourself, otherwise it will still just be me sittinghere dishing out the basics, and who guys whining because the facts clash with your mis-perceptions about what’s been happening in the world for decades. Mind you, and this is where we probably lost juan from above, you WILL have to read something other than the usual propaganda drivel which would have impressed Stalin or Hitler. Actually, it DID do this as Hitler mentions, but that’s another topic If you’d like to get into U.S. propaganda I’m game. Ive been studying it for more than 20 years. Let me know.

    Oh, before I forget, here are just a few of the hundreds of places where you can find a few of the basics:
    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html
    http://www.representativepress.org/CIASaddam.html
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0420-05.htm
    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/husseinindex.htm

    There! That took all of one minute to find. I can give you other links where you can find out about the earth going round the sun, too, if you’d like.kb

    “It better be good troll-san, else I blindfold you with dental floss!”

    Actually, it’s better just to call people trolls who know what they’re talking about becuase you have no game than to actually try and make an argument and just whine. I guess this would be a whining troll. Neither you or the drooler from above have made an argument of any sort yet. Were you going to?kb

    Two babblers down and nothing yet. I DO hope there is at least ONE person below who tries to make some sort of argument rather than just the usual right-wing whining.

    End Part 1

    [KB, I don’t know if you can see the buttons above the textbox (it could be that you don’t have JavaScript enabled on your browser), but if you would enclose quoted material inside of the <blockquote>   </blockquote> tags, it would make it so much easier for people to follow along.  — DJ]

  73. Wild-Eyed Charlie Comment by Wild-Eyed Charlie UNITED STATES


    Saddam’s Version of Hell

  74. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    Hartford Web Publishing?
    Representative Press?
    Common Dreams?
    Global Policy Forum

    Sorry fuckwit, but 9/11 conspiracy tossers, communist apologists, anyone quoting anything by Fisk, and the other assorted mootbat morons you’ve quoted as “sources” don’t count in the real world.

    Hey I know - let’s get in an argument about the JOOOOOOS so then you can quote the Protocols of Elder Zion and Mein Kampf as “proof” that what you say is true….

  75. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    You call those “sources”? :lol_wp: :lol_tb: :flush_tb:

  76. LC Mrs. M Comment by LC Mrs. M

    You know kb you might almost have a minutely small chance of convincing folks that you have more than two sentient neurons to rub together if you would take the time to USE THE DAMN BLOCK QUOTE.

  77. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    Jesus, part one….. Somebody needs to get a life. I’m long past throwing links around or letting these cretins dictate the tone of discourse. I simply tell them that to run my life and dictate my affairs, they had best know how to use weapons. All I hear beyond that point is insults and such, but never a confrontation…. All in all, they are just throwing a panty wah after Saddam got his neck stretched. Again, to get a life..l..they never learn.

  78. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Don’t you know? Block Quotes are a CIA tool to spread Bushitlers empire. Or something. In fact, I’ll bet the Block Quote button is what got Saddam set up in the first place!

    Ahem.

    Sorry. I was channelling a fucking moron for a moment.

  79. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    Oh, and that “minute” turned into almost 11 hours and that’s all you could come up with?
    :doh_tb: :lol_wp:
    You sure you’re not William Rivers Pitt from the Demented Ungulates & Truth(BeDamned)Out.Org?
    (Hint: “24 business hours”)
    :smoke_tb:

    kb, you’re so unbelievably dense that you almost make me wish for the days of “Um Yeah” and his boxing glove-wearing buddies.

  80. jaybear Comment by jaybear UNITED STATES

    kb bleats:

    If you’d like to get into U.S. propaganda I’m game. Ive been studying it for more than 20 years. Let me know.

    ohhhh….we got ourselves a subscriber to the NY Times.

  81. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Ive been studying it for more than 20 years.

    Studying it for 20 years and still not learned a fucking thing.

  82. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    Hey Jaybear! Thanks for the card, Bro’. You’re good, you know that? Yeah, our latest addition, a dime a dozen, throw a tantrum when we don’t play by their rules. Life’s a bitch. Seen ‘em come and seen ‘em go. And this one isn’t near as good as some of the others. I just sigh sometimes. Won’t play their silly assed games either. They are no threat to us, simply a hemorroidal irritant. True to the self-hatred expoused by their kind, they simply irritate to the point of being booted, then scream about our intolerance and such. Same game over and over. Nice thing about being part of a pack, rather than a herd. We choose to be here because we want to be here. As for the herds…….others here far more qualified than I deal with that. Thanks again for the card and friendship, Jaybear.

  83. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Are you referring to those folks who YOU supported for many years without knowing about it, or are you talking about those other fellows who you supported for many years without knowing about it?

    And which people were these in the first and second issues?

    And while we are on this subject, are you next going to claim that we (the United States), supported the Soviet Gulags due to the fact that aides to Senator Kennedy were in contact witht he KGB during the
    Cold War? Or that the US is responsible for Tiananmen Square because Nixon made a state visit to China during the early 70’s?

    It was common knowledge during the 80s amongst my circle of friends that the US was supplying Iraq with intelligence information during the Iran/Iraq war, and that The Soviet Union and France were supplying him with weapons and chemical warfare equipment and supplies. Oddly enough, what I hear from my sources on the ground in Iraq is that nearly everything they find that is not indigenous to the country is either French or Russian. (With the exception of two crates of Uzi subguns that turned up in one of the palaces. I suppose that this means the ISRAELIS were supplying Hussein with weapons and technology, at least in your rattlingly empty, cut and paste skull.)

  84. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Studying it for 20 years and still not learned a fucking thing.

    Minds are like parachutes, Tiberias. And his(?) is OBVIOUSLY not open.

  85. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    You call those “sources”?

    To be fair, BC, wouldn’t you consider any source that talks about this stuff as being a “bad source”?

    This is a problem for both sides. If a publication or source says something that you don’t agree with, then it is obviously a bad, or biased source and it is discarded.

    KB offered a few sources of his own, but I doubt anyone even bothered to get past the source itself before passing judgment. Maybe if you would take the time to actually read what the source said, then offer up rebuttal sources of your own?

    I have always maintained — and still do — that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and that the facts can be interpreted by whatever spin you want to use.

  86. LC Mrs. M Comment by LC Mrs. M

    Well it looks like he’s going to have to have ANOTHER 11 hours to come up with part 2. Takes time to surf the Moonbat Central Honor Roll Of Koolaid Blogs to get all his talking points in order so he can cut and paste again.

    Now if we can just get the asswipe to use the

    DAMN BLOCK QUOTE.

  87. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    Oddly enough, what I hear from my sources on the ground in Iraq is that nearly everything they find that is not indigenous to the country is either French or Russian.

    Does this necessarily mean that France and Russia supplied them? Aren’t there independent arms dealers who operate on a global scale?

    Remember, for twelve years the United States didn’t do any kind of business with Iraq, and certainly not selling him weapons. So is there any surprise that there wouldn’t be a large stockpile of US-made weapons to be found in Iraq?

    Now if we can just get the asswipe to use the

    DAMN BLOCK QUOTE.

    Mrs M, it is possible that KB can’t see the quicktag buttons. Not everyone has JavaScript enabled in their browsers. I posted an adendum to his latest comment explaining how to use the <blockquote> </blockquote> when quoting someone else’s comments.

  88. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    I told you, block quotes are a tool of the evil Amerikkkan Kapitalistic military industrial complex who go around supporting dictators, oppressing the little people, and preventing the little people experiencing the joys of communism.

    It’s right up there on his list of evils alongside logic, facts, reality, courage, honour, and probably personal hygiene.

  89. Light29ID Comment by Light29ID

    May I say kb welcome to the Empire. You have just experienced your initial intellectual wedgie from the LCs of His Majesty’s Realm. Please, do stay, sit and enjoy the scenery as we prepare the Imperial Torture er, Game Room for our pleasure. :devil_tb:

  90. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    troll and bandwidth intensive one at that.

    LC & IB Tiberius said:

    “Would you like references? They’re only all over the place. But if you want me to do the work it’ll take all of 1 minute.”(kb)

    “Well come on then, dipshit. I’m pretty sure it’s been more than 1 minute.”

    No, it was about one minute. Are you so helpless that you’re unable to Google up a few thousand sources? My sources are usually C.I.A. officials, U.S. government documents, plain old history which you probably have never read, and the usual places where anyone wishing to learn about a topic goes for information. Sorry, I don’t read the National Enquirer, listen to Rush, Coulter, or Hannity, or any of the other outlets of dis-information you folks depend on to unwittingly pollute your minds. Poor things. Are you going to be #3 who doesn’t try and make an argument of some sort? Are you just going to whime and call names? Let’s see.kb

    “Fuckwit.”

    PING! That didn’t take long. Now, while you, juan, and redneck are dabbing up each others drool, I will go back to studying about the topic so that I can come back here later and bitchslap you some more with simple ole’ basic facts.kb

    ======================================================
    Imperial Torturer said:

    “Oh Jeebus, where to begin? (And the coffee’s not even finished brewing yet.)”

    AT the beginning would be fine. I mean, after the coffee is finished, of course. I DO hope you plan to make an arguement of some sort and aren’t just going to be #4 who saying nothing.kb

    “kb, for starters LEARN TO USE THE LITTLE FUCKIN’ “B-Quote” button up above the comment box. (It makes keeping your idiocy separate from the coherent arguments a lot easier on the eyes.”

    You mean like this? No it doesn’t. I’m not concerned with trivialities. So, for starters, why don’t you shut up about style and start focusing on content. Two sentences in and already trying to divert attention away from substance. Do you guys go to school to learn how to do this, or does it just come natural? I mean, I know most of you were kicked out of your home-school because you never came to class, but this is ridiculous. Too much whiskey in that there coffee of yours partner?kb

    “Wouldn’t want to have someone get confused and mistakenly think that you could have typed a sentient thought, when you were only quoting someone with a functioning cerebral cortex.)”

    More name-calling and no argument. Hey, I can do this, too, you know, but why lower myself to your sub-par standards. This is what distinguishes the left from the right for the most part. An argument? Anywhere? Any example of where I haven’t typed a “sentient thought”? Nope. Nothing. Zero. Hot air.kb

    “Secondly”

    “Secondly”, you haven’t done anything yet. Oh, you mean, second round of name-calling? Yes, well, that’s to be expected when one has no game. Was there something you wished to discuss other than cerebral cortexes?kb

    “what flavor is the Kool-Aid® you’ve been drinking these many years? Or do you prefer the Variety Pak®?”

    For those of you who are unaware, this “koolaid” reference is to LSD from the 60’s and is to infor that there’s little reality regarding what’s being said. Hence, it’s little more than another attempt at avoiding anything of substance. May as well just ask someone if they drink too much and if that explains their irrational behavior. Notice that there has STILL been no evidence given. This is common for most on the right who begin to shrivel when their cognitive dissonance begins kicking in when exposed to actual facts instead of the propaganda they’ve been indoctrinated with. This is the 4th commenter and thus far NONE have made an argument. ALL have done little more than shout bad names from the bleachers and run for cover. Zero. Nothing.kb

    “Not a peep of anything having to do with U.S. support of Saddam, before, during, and after most all of his worst crimes.”(kb)

    “Apparently they didn’t go over a little thing called “The American Embassy Hostage Crisis in Iran” during your so-called “education“.”

    What does this have to do with anything having been discussed thus far? The “Hostage Crisis” which took place in 1979 helped put Saddam into power in 1963 or before? Apparently you also flunked out of your home-school.kb

    “Not a peep about how up until the day before Kuwait Bush I gave him another billion.”(kb)

    “It was called “Purchasing Oil To Run American Industry & Cars”.”

    I just wish the not-even-close-to-being-liberal media would actually say things like this then. I mean, if the government and the media would just report the turth, which is supposedly their jobs, like that it was for nothing more than oil, then at least all would know the basics and could then decide if we thought we should be meddling half way around the world, getting folks killed, supporting murderers, etc…This is what a real democracy would be doing. Instead, it’s quite informative that so much effort must go into hiding the actual reasons. The justifications and pretexts for the invasion of Iraq is such a glaring example that only the most indoctrinated could have missed it. It is, however, a demonstration of how well the propganda machine is working in that it has been missed by so many, especially from the right. But then again, they’re always the easiest to lead around by their noses.kb

    “We were also just trying to keep his “Baby Milk Factories” up and running.”

    You mean the ones which were destroyed and led to the deaths of 500,000 children? Don’t know what time period you’re refering to. You apparently do not either. “Hostage Crisis”? Geez! Here! Here’s your homework. You can Google, can’t you? I mean, you can block quotes so you can probably do this, maybe. See anything regarding:

    “Count Hans von Sponeck is a German career diplomat. He resigned his position as UN humanitarian co-ordinator in Iraq and director of the oil-for-food program on February 13. He had occupied the position since the resignation of his predecessor, Denis Halliday, a former UN assistant secretary-general, who quit the post in September 1998 under similar circumstances. Doctor Jutta Burghardt, head of the UN World Food Program in Iraq, followed von Sponeck the next day.”

    All quit because of the genocidal nature of what they were being asked to participate in. See, in the world I come from, this would be a sign of their if not superior at least noble morality. You probably lost little sleep over the fact that you supported and contributed to the killing of 500,000 children. However, this is probably an underestimate if you factor in the lingering affects which don’t show up until years later. Want more evidence to not read? Okay. Why not?

    Well, how about a direct quote for starters:

    Lesley Stahl: “I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. & ・and you know, is the price worth it?” Madeline Albright, “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price ・we think the price is worth it.”—– Former U.N. Ambassador Madeline Albright, responding to reporter Lesley Stahl as to whether the over half a million Iraqi children killed by the UN sanctions against Iraq were “worth it.” CBS May 11, 1996

    http://www.whale.to/b/iraq500.html
    http://www.whale.to/b/pilger9.html
    http://www.whale.to/b/davidsson.html

    And on and on…..The data is all over the place. It almost takes work NOT to find it. Perhaps you guys are spending a little too much time on porn sites instead of studying something you may actuallyhave a chance of getting some day. I mean, like FAR away, but still a chance.kb

    “Ya know, we’re kinda suckers when it comes to helping keep The Chiiiiiiiiildren™ fed.”

    You mean when we’re not trying to slaughter them? Yes, maybe we do this from time to time. Did YOU wish to give any examples, or is this just for those who think differently than yourself? Actually, I don’t need any examples. I’m quite well aware of the aid given, the conditions under which it is usually given, the amount of aid which is supposedly given for one thing which ends up being for something else, as well as many other aspects. Care to discuss any of them? Care to discuss military aid to Israel, etc…You know, where most foreign aid goes?kb

    “Not a peep about how the U.S. helping him gas the Iranians.”(kb)

    “Helping him use Soviet/Fwench chemicals and machinery to manufacture the gas and Soviet gunships to deliver it?”

    What does this have to do with the U.S. supporting him in using chemical weapons and gas? You want data? Well, how about a long list of government documents to support everything I’ve said thus far? Will you actually read them, or is the threat of reality justtoo scary? Anyway, for those of you who really ARE interested in facts, go here. This is the most comprehensive site for actual details that I’m aware of:
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

    “Not a peep about how, with the help of the C.I.A., he was put into power in the first place.”(kb)

    “Hmmmmmmmmmm. That’s a new one.”

    On the contrary, it’s not new at all. This is old and this is one of the basics. If you’re unaware of even this basic fact you probably really have no business discussing this topic at all, unless it is an honest willingness to try and get some education.kb

    “Which way do you want it?”

    What is this supposed to mean? I was for ousting Saddam when he was first put into power, as were many from the left who knew him as an assassin, his previous job, and felt it was probably not a good idea to support this type of person in the first place. There were many folks from the left supporting the anti-Saddam democratic resistance before, during, and after he committed most of his crimes. And, if you remember, which obviously you wouldn’t, it was illegal to do so at the time. One was basically forced to support Saddam. Not only that, you had the indoctrinated pseudo-patriots such as yourself calling the leftists “anti-American” because they didn’t support Saddam. So, I ask YOU the question, which way do YOU want it?kb

    “Do you want Sod’em in power or not?”

    No one from the left EVER has, only the right. Well, actually, even some of the the more naive and ignorant left, but by this I mean about 1 degree left of center. You seem to infer that you have some right or authority to remove him from power, especially after having supported him for so many years. On the contrary, the U.S. has less than zero right at all regarding his removal, and should feel lucky that they’ll probably be able to weasel out of being charged as accomplices to him for so long, as the entire planet is well aware of with the excpetion of the indoctrinated in the U.S. Your logic is pathetic. It’s as if a mafia don had allowed one of his murdering goons to get out of line, thinking he was too big for his pants, and start trying to take over some other area which the don also controlled. Then, the don tries to make the goon look bad because he didn’t follow orders, and decides to remove him himself, and expects to get some sort of praise for it. Nothing ever being mentioned of the dons support for years, turning his head to the goons killings of his own crew or people within his assigned territory, etc…This hardly gives the don any sort of position to make a decision. He has less than zero right to do anything at all as it’s all been illegal and criminal from the start. As a matter of fact, the don is the one most responsible for the crimes which took place and should be held accountable, too, which, in the real world, they are. Take responsibility for your actions for Goddess’s sake.kb

    “Make up your mind, you drooling retard.”

    What’S there to make up? No one every wanted Saddam in power in the first place. No one form the left that is, as I said. However, it’s not your responsibility to do it, nor do you have the authority to do it, nor is it the intelligent way to do it, and on and on…Saddam posed no threat at all for the last X number of years. No one in any of the surrounding countries were scared, not even Kuwait. Saddam never posed a threat to the U.S., but then again why would he since we had been his sugar daddy for so many years? So I’m a “drooling retard” because I’m aware of U.S. support for Saddam during his worst crimes, and that the U.S. should have no say so whatsoever in doing anything in Iraq given our having supported the murderer. This, again, is as if the mafia don told the courts he didn’t need them because it was his responsibility to try and clean up his own mess, expecting the judge and the proper authorities to ignore his contribution to the crimes. And not only this, expecting to be rewarded a receive praise for his valor. No, sorry, it doesn’t work that way in the real world.kb

    “Not a peep about the illegality of the war in the first place.”(kb)

    “Which war would you be referring to, my little oxygen-starved friend?”

    Well, obviously your brain is the one which is lacking oxygen because up to this point we’ve only been talking about Iraq, so I can see how you may think we were talking about the Spanish Civil War.kb

    “GWI or its continuation, GWII?”

    There all the same one. The only difference has been in the variations, times, places, and pretexts of the aggression.kb

    “Also, since you seem to be the Font of All Knowledge™”

    I do? Well, I was unaware of this, but thanks for the confidence. To tell you the truth though there are many subjects I know little or nothing about. On the other hand there are some subjects I know something about, and even a few I might know quite a bit about. What I’ve been discussing here isn’t really all that deep or complex. These are the basics. I mean, it’s like probably a pretty good idea to know the alphabet before you start leaning to read, yes? Well, the only things I’v mention thus far are simply the alphabet. We haven’t even gotten into any of the more complicated aspects yet, of which there aren’t really all that many. If you’re unaware of these basics then I suggest a reading course. Or, perhaps, go back to first grade just before you were kicked out burning those books during show and tell.kb

    “when it comes to Illegal Wars™, would you mind letting us all know precisely what constitutes a Legal War™?”

    Yes. On which meets the requirements of whatever the international community has decided would make one legal. Perhaps you weren’t aware, but there are already laws all over the place which state specifically exactly what the rules are. Perhaps you should study these a little so that you’d know when you’re unwittingly supporting international crime and criminals and then you could stop doing so. Take the concept of “preventive war”. This is by definition illegal and criminal. It is also an apologetic for any terrorism which occurs. If one accepts this doctrine, then one has just said that acts like that of 9/11 are justified and that there was nothing wrong at all. Is THIS the position you want to put yourself in? Personlly, I don’t.kb

    “How about Sod’em invading Iran and murdering at least 1,000,000 Iranians (With a HUGE number of them being teenagers.)”

    You mean when we were supporting him? Yeah, exactly, that’s pretty bad that you would support someone doing such a thing. Are you now going to attempt to show sympathy for Saddam’s victims just after having supported him through the worst of his crimes? Talk about not taking responsibility and hypocrisy. And I’m sure your sympathy runs so deep for the Iranians that you surely haven’t said anything bad about them recently, huh? You guys would be funny and amusing if you weren’t so sad.kb

    “in his 8 year-long war with them?”

    With our support, you forgot to say.kb

    “What about his invading Kuwait, murdering thousands of Kuwaitis, looting the entire country”

    Oh, yes, I forgot about the “democratic” country of Kuwait. Yes, invading countries is wrong. So? What does this have to do with you or the U.S.? Also, just to let you in on a little secret, it’s probably a good idea to look at the history of where Kuwait came from in the first place. Why do you think Kuwait even exists? See, you’re not the least bit familiar with these topics at all, so I’d advise you to go read for about 10 years and come back when you have something moderately intelligent to say. That, or buy another Coulter poster.kb

    “and then, when he was getting his ass handed to him by a coalition military, creating the worst man-made environmental disaster in history?”

    And? So? Are you consioucly trying to help me here, or are you just less than alert? There wouldn’t be any connection between the U.S. going in and trying to remove him and his burning of the oil, would there? I don’t recall him just going into Kuwait and start burning until after the U.S decided he was no longer following orders appropriately. You guys and your lack of responsibility is pathetic. Why on earth wouldhe have gone into Kuwait (Actually a previously confiscated part of Iraq) and started burning all of the money he was sure to get? This was a reaction to something, NOT a cause of something. You guys and your cause and effect disorder surely need help.kb

    “Yea! Whoopee! We helped kill a killer who we supported!”(kb)

    “If the family dog comes down with rabies & starts biting the neighbors and snarling at you when you go to feed him, you just have to put him down.”

    The problem is, is that this dog had rabies for years, and we gave them to him, and ignored when he was biting the neighbors, making excuses for his behavior, etc…In the real world, the owner bears much more responsibility and would probably go to jail for his support of the dog, the hiding of it’s crimes, etc…Next time you’d better try and have a better analogy. This one just bit YOU on the arse.kb

    “It’s sad, we know, but sometimes you just have to do what you have to do…”

    Yes, and sometimes you should take responsibility for what you do. If you support a terrorist, you are a terrorist. I think someone moderately famous, though intellectually handicapped, was even aware of this much. Well, fi you think Saddam was a terrorist, which no doubt he was, and if you think that supporting him is supporting a terrorist, then YOU, my friend, are also a terrorist. It’s your choice. Or, you could just run from responsibility and pretend thathe was your enemy all of those years you were supporting him, hypocrite. Here some more educational material for you:

    Here are some from an actual American who has an actual understanding about democracy, what it entails, what’s bad for the country, etc…No doubt that you’d consider this “anti=American” given your upside down worldview.kb

    http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2422
    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20040125.htm
    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20030313.htm
    http://www.monthlyreview.org/1101chomsky.htm
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5411.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran-Iraq_war

    “(More to come…)”

    You haven’t started yet. You haven’t made an argument. You haven’t challeneged a word I’ve said. And challenging doesn’t mean “No! You’re wrong! Uhh…uhh…I don’t know why, but you’re just wrong!” It means, at least to educated people, taking something I’ve said and trying to demonstrate it’s not accurate. Hey, that’s possible. It’s just that you haven’t, nor have any of the other fellows done it at all. You’ve simply given your opinions that my assertions were incorrect. This means nothing other than you don’t think they’re correct. Perhaps you think the earth is not round like I believe, too. Well, that’s fine, but you’re simply saying that I’m wrong will need to be proven, NOT just disagreed with. I’m interested in the facts, and much less your opinion. Especially when you seem to have not ever even tried to find the facts. I mean, they’re not all that hard to find out.kb

  91. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    troll

    juandos said:

    Gateway Pundit notes: “If Ever You Needed Proof of Insanity of America’s Left- Look Now!“

    Wow! That’s all the evidence I needed. I mean, if “Gateway” says it, it must be something to put stock into. Still nothing little juanita..to? Just the assertion that the left is “insane”? Yes, well, that’s possible. So, when are you going to prove it? Your saying so means squat. Where’s your evidence? It doesn’t exist. It’s not there. You have challenged nothing yet. But you’re in good company. None of the other drunken rabble above did either. Perhaps you guys are all in the same frat?kb

    “The Butcher of Baghdad who murdered and tortured and raped hundreds of thousands of Iraqis is dead today and the left is Upset(?)”

    Why would the left be upset? Oh, you mean because they left are against murder? Yes, well, that’s the left for you. You know, thinking that killing is wrong and all. How immoral of them. The left is also wondering about why the cognitive dissonace prevents folks like you from acknowledging basic facts such as why you supported Saddam BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER his worst crimes, and how the impending denial can be so strong. You just don’t like to talk about this, do you? Sort of like an alcoholic in denial not wanting to discuss his drinking problem, or blaming it on others, or trying to make excuses for his bad behavior when drunk, and on and on….Anything but facing the facts. Let’s blame my drinking problem on the liberals because……uhh…uhh…hmm…they make up the vast majority of the folks working in rehab facilities…or…uhh…just because. This remonds me of a little diddy which pretty much applies to all of your type. It comes from a source with experience in these sorts of things:

    “Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY.”

    –Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

    Sound familiar juan? Sure does to me. You guys are playing out to almost the letter how propaganda works. You are the victims of it and you have no clue that you are. This is why I’m taking it easy on you now. Unlike the right, it’s not really my style to beat up the hanicapped. Rememebr? I’m a lefty. We work for handicapped folks, minorities, elderly, women, etc…to have rights. Perhaps you’ve heard about our work. Nawww…kb

    “Don’t ever allow a Leftist to lecture you on human rights again… Ever.”

    Why? Because the left was against Saddam when you were supporting him? Yes, this guy’s logic is as solid as a strainer, too. On thge contrary, you should shut the hell up and ONLY let the left lecture you on human rights as you have no clue what this concept entails, as has been proven time and time again throughout history. Personally, I just don’t see how it makes the left look bad because the right was spooning with Saddam for years. Perhaps your logic was purchased at Wal Mart? Get a refund.kb

    “Amen!”

    Uhhh…Sorry, but youhave little business invoking anything remotely religios here unless it’s to ask for forgiveness for your support of the murderer for 20+ years. Do you think Godess is going to forgive you simply because you took out the guy 20+ years after having supportyed him BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER his worst crimes? Maybe. But if I were you I’d start shopping for a flame retardent suit. Still no challenge from anywhere. Still waiting.kb

    [C’mon, KB.  I like what you are saying, but you are starting to piss me off by making me go back and add the fucking <blockquote> tags!  I will give you a fucking trollcap myself if you don’t start using the <blockquote> tags.  Ask anyone here — I am not one to get easily pissed off. Get with the program!]

  92. jaybear Comment by jaybear UNITED STATES

    kb sez, and I put in “blockquotes

    Here are some from an actual American who has an actual understanding about democracy, what it entails, what’s bad for the country, etc…No doubt that you’d consider this “anti=American” given your upside down worldview

    chomsky??? you’re referencing chomsky??? yeah, I’ll bet he knows all four verses to the Star Spangled Banner too..

    As for the destruction of the “baby milk factories” during GW1, you must mean “factories” like this right?:milk plant

    kb, if you’re so interested in pursuing facts, stay away from the conspiracy websites and buggers like noam chomsky m’kay???

  93. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Why would the left be upset? Oh, you mean because they left are against murder? Yes, well, that’s the left for you. You know, thinking that killing is wrong and all.

    Are you even fucking trying anymore? If you are, that is pathetic. So the left hates killing does it?

    Then perhaps you can explain their support for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Pot, Ahmadinnerjacket, Arafat, Hamas, Hizbollah, and basically every other mass murderer in history.

    Ooops. Forgot all that, didn’t you dipshit?

  94. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    Jeezus, man. Can you even begin to pull your head out of your ass and actually try to come back from the Far Side of Stoopid™? Your obfuscation of the facts with rambling screeds doesn’t even begin to address the factual rebuttals of the fallacies of your supposed “arguments“.

    :rolleyes_wp:

    Answer just ONE question straight-up, you fuckin’ retard: “Is it A Good Thing™ that Saddam is finally gone and the people of Iraq have at least the chance of bettering their futures according to their own hard work and self-determination?”

    It’s a simple question that requires only a one word answer: “Yes” or “No”. C’mon, you know you can do it for us, so that even us lowly, knuckle-dragging ReichWingers™ can understand.

    Someone else can flash the light into this comatose hippie’s eyes to see if his pupils eventually dilate, but I’m done wasting my electrons on someone who, by his “sources“, believes everything posted and linked to from here.

    BTW, Dave, anytime someone links to “Common Dreams” as a source, they’re automatically dismissed as a bib-wearing lunatic, in my book. That’d be like one of us using The Weekly World News as a “source“.

  95. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911 UNITED STATES

    Sez da troll:

    Who are you talking about?

    Doesn’t take much to get ‘em confused.
    I see that the notion of post hoc ergo propter hoc retains higher relevance to the troll than percieving the full scope of the historicas situation/strategies that actually occured.
    Without lying (yes, deception by omission is a LIE) the conclusions go unsupported and must be repeated to achieve any penetration.

    Copy and pasting the same scrip across other blog pages smells spammish.
    Must not have had any upbringin’ that forced interface with reality,, 20 years without visible signs of intellectual capability, strategic cognition, hell, just showin’ up on this page shows us this troll is freakin’ lost.

    They won’t consider anything you have to show, ‘get deeper conversation from a mynah bird.
    To his credit, the troll is tangental and verbose.

  96. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    How come this cock keeps posting his bullshit and yet my shit keeps getting caught by the spam filter?

  97. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    troll

    Mope, Imperial Knucklehead said:

    “You sure use a lot of bandwidth. I certainly hope you have the decency to place a few Yen in the donation box.”

    I think a better charge would be the less you say, the more you pay. This way juan, redneck, and the other guys could probably buy the entire internet, or at least rake in enough money to feed all of the hungry in the world, if not several other planets as well. Maybe even the ones they live on. Now, are YOU going to say anything of relevance or just talk about my lenght?kb

    “Yes, those horrible French who gave you the Statue of Liberty. It’s just too bad that you pseudo-patriots haven’t a clue as to what democracy means, and are constantly hostile to it.”(kb)

    “I’d be glad to trade their statue for the remains of our guys buried over there.”

    Why are “our guys” there? Which time period are you speaking of? Surely not WWII when the U.S. resistantly bacame involved way late in the game. You know, there wer more important things to consider, like Bush’s grandfather’s relationship to the Nazis, etc….See here:

    http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/bushnz1.htm
    http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/new_world_order/bush_nazis.html
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html
    http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/bush_nazi.html

    Many other places as well. Why don’t you guys ever talk about this? Why don’t you ever discuss ANY of these things? They just sort of don’t compute, huh? I mean, if you found that Clinton’s grandfather had supported the Nazi’s I would have no problem at all saying that he had. Data is data. Whether or not you like it is irrlevant unless you’re simply going to dismiss it because it doesn’t fit your fairy tale.kb

    “You know, the guys that died so the Fwench didn’t have to live under the yoke of Nazism.”

    So, you’re going to give all the credit to the U.S. for coming in late in the game, after the Soviet Union had already done most of the fighting, and lost millions? Yes, the U.S. played “a” role. So? Howard Zinn the great historian was a bombadere in the war against the Nazi’s. So? Perhaps Bush’s grandfather shouldn’t have been helping assist them in their ascent. Perhaps the leftists who were warning against this guy from earlier on, you know, the usual leftists, should have been listened to instead of being criticised because, well, they were leftists. Perhaps the U.S. shouldn’t have immediately started using the Nazi manuals on “counter-insurgency” which are still in use today. So what? Are you now going to try and make an argument that the left supported Hitler, too? Hitler was described bythe U.S. government as a “moderate” standing between the two extremes. SO was Saddam. So was Suharto. So was any number of other killers who we supported. You guys really don’t like taking responsibility, do you?kb

    “As for being a “pseudo-patriot”, it is preferrable over pseudo-traitor.”

    “Traitor”? In what sense? That I care about what the country does and say something about it instead of blindly cheerleading any action simply because it’s my team? Your funny. You remind me of some guy who is a fanatic about his team at school. He’s sitting on the bench, of course, and scraming constantly that the “other team” is fouling, cheating, the refs are wrong, etc…He thinks he’s a patriot for his team. Then there is the rational guy sitting next to him. He’s probably a leftist, just to let you know. He sees that not only that it is HIS team which is fouling, cheating, etc…but that this is bad for his team in the final analysis. He mentions that it WAS a foul by their own teammate only to be ridiculed that he’s a traitor to his team. Later when they watch the game again on video, they both see their own team member clothes-lining someone from the other team. The leftiy says “See?! John clothes-lined him!” the other guy, you, says “See?! That guy ran into John’s arm! He didn’t foul him! You’re a traitor!” You’re a traitor! You should move to a different team unless you plan on internalizing my mis-perceptions about reality and then stand behind them willing to fight! Communist!” YOU probably see this second guy as the patriotic team member. Sorry, but his position is NOT good for the team. He’s basically a simple idiot and liar. Also, this statement itself of your’S and what you’re inferring is a totalitarian concept which demonstrates that you haven’t a clue as to what democracy means. Do you think it’s democratic to assert that you either think like I do or you’re a traitor? Sorry, that is the antithesis of democratic thinking. Hitler and Stalin would have both been proud to have your support though.kb

  98. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    troll

    Well, I was just unable to use the necessary albeit meaningless format request as it would appear that I have been banned.kb

    [Of course, we note the paradox created by actually reading a post from a commenter that’s been banned-JB IC/A]

  99. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    BTW, Dave, anytime someone links to “Common Dreams” as a source, they’re automatically dismissed as a bib-wearing lunatic, in my book. That’d be like one of us using The Weekly World News as a “source“.

    Actually, my boss does a lot of writing for Common Dreams.

  100. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    Actually, my boss does a lot of writing for Common Dreams.

    ‘Nuff sed, Dave.

    :lol_wp:

  101. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911 UNITED STATES

    Yep, DJ, that’s the genre
    I read around for few,, saw lots of stuff that bugged them, but not a hint of feasible stategy, other than going after folks that go after terr’s.

  102. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    Hello?

  103. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    This is a problem for both sides. If a publication or source says something that you don’t agree with, then it is obviously a bad, or biased source and it is discarded.

    DJ,
    I’ll agree in part to this, but one huge difference in my view is this: The left is far more adamant about decrying sources then the right.

    There’s no doubt that a majority of the left are now “baby boomers” who have raised thier children in little cookie cutter images of themselves.

    These so called Boomers were the flower children of the 60’s and early 70’s. You can clearly see thier influence on the younger generation & thier children, one only needs to look at the fascination of todays youth with such pop culture icons as Bob Marley , Che, looser and in some cases non exsistant moral compasses, even right down to the resurgence of tie-die clothing apparel.

    Back then in the flower children age you really only had one source of news, the MSM, unlike today where there are multiple information outlets such as talk radio, the internet, cable news network news..etc.

    Having said that the left has an instinctive negative knee jerk reaction to anything pro war, or pro government and it is telling in the anti-war movement inside the country’s major news sources and across university campuses nation wide. The’ve never grown out of that knee jerk reaction. When we invaded Iraq it was “we support the troops but not the war” but now even that smoke screen has cleared.

    Secondly, The left refuses to acknowledge anything positive of the Iraq situation, although there is a well established history begining to develop proving that aside from the insurgent attacks and Sunni muslim strife being propagated heavily there ARE positive developments inside Iraq. The left 100% denies this…show me one source in the Nation Moveon etc that has put ONE positive message out on the situation in Iraq..fact is you probably can’t. Contrast that with websites such as Townhall.com..who like Fox news and Susan Estrich and even here on the Rott allow an opposing view point.

    Case in point the Kurds released a video actually thanking the U.S. for thier role in the liberation of Iraq. Not a peep from the left about this and unless you’re up at the wee hours of the morning..chances are you wont see it. Explain again the mantra there is no bias in the media?

    Another point is the term “Iraq War” is seriously dated yet it is continued to be allowed airtime and be used by both sides across the political landscape…why is this?
    Bush declared an end to hostilites on that Aircraft carrier and the Left screamed bloody hell that it was publicity stunt, and raised the roof. But they now insist on calling it a war, which is it? You can’t have it both ways, either your damning the man for declaring a cease of hostilites or your damning him for an “illegal war”..does anyone else see the contradiction here?

    And in the end why is it that none on either side except maybe a few die hard conservative types will put the ongoing issues in Iraq in the proper context, and place the blame squarley on the forces responsible for it…the facsit muslim elements that cause it, and Iran.

    Why is it still almost three years after the offical cease of hostility by the commander in chief it’s still all Bush’s fault or America’s fault…yes we invaded, yes we missed the WMD, but we also tried to do something positive for a country that went from one of the most advanced in the region and in 15 years ended up being worse off then any of it’s neighbors by far.

    Why then wont the left and Dems at least give that much credit? Why do people like KB automatically veer off on something like “we gave him a billion dollars the day before he invaded Iraq” but wont admit the fact the man and his government were a menace to not only Kuwait but Iran and the entire region as well? FACT..Saddamn had the 4th largest army in the WORLD…and he was willing to use it to achive his goals as history has now proven beyond any reasonable doubt…why can’t the left acknowledge that? Mention the mass graves they are still finding, I think I saw an estimate of 180,000 people gone under the Sdaam regime and you get called a liar it is “Bush propaganda” The facts are what they are..why can’t the left at least acknowledge them?

    Lets look at the “war for oil” mantra a litte while we’re at it. Saddam could have shut down the Arabian gulf rather easily as demonstrated in the destruction of Kuwaits oil infrastructure.
    It doesn’t take much to damage millions of dollars of Oil processing equipment as evidenced by the ongoing problems with Iraq’s oil industry, It would take years to fix the damages and untold trillions of dollars not to mention the impact to the environment here…But it’s always a “US War for oil” so let me get this straight …the U.S. is the only country on the face of the planet that uses Arabian gulf oil? Hmmm I wonder then… where does France, Germany, Japan, Denmark, Sweden, Russia, Korea, Australia, Italy, Spain, China, etc all get thier oil?

    By protecting our interest in the region and promoting a democratic Iraq are we not also helping the very same countries so harshly criticizing us by keeping the oil markets from going ballistic? Why is there NO acknowledgement of over all when looked at thru a wider lens the U.S actions in the ME are actually helping other countries as well? Why cant the left see that if Oil hits 100 dollars a barrel (or higher) because of some madman like Saddamn or Iran’s president shutting down the gulf, not only does America suffer ..but fledging democracies, and emerging socites in the third world (both pet causes of the left) are going to fail hard in short order?

    Make no doubt the left is screaming loud and hard for us to withdrawl…and if we do Iraq is going to implode, what will be the “talking points” for the left then..how it was America’s fault because we pulled out too soon…??

    The left pulls this chamelon play endlessly, not to mention the fact many of the lefts “sources” are so over the top and willing to twist the facts to fit thier agenda…(the lebanon conflict anyone?) in my view, it’s no wonder those of us on the right view anything used to support a liberal’s stance is viewed with mistrust.

  104. Unregistered Pingback by Inoperable Terran » The only IoT-approved snuff video

    […] If you haven’t seen it yet, Saddam’s trip to meet up with his sons is here (and probably everywhere else). Posted by Ian S. in […]

  105. TDCG23 Comment by TDCG23 UNITED STATES

    Just made it back here after my first comment.

    When I referred to comment #4, it was a DIFFERENT comment #4!!

    I wasn’t talking about NR Pax!!

  106. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    Hey, what happened to KB’s comments? Like mine on another thread a few days ago, they just disappeared. Is this what happens now when someone says something that someone else doesn’t agree with?

  107. Master Sergeant Comment by Master Sergeant UNITED STATES

    The knot is supposed to be wrapped thirteen times. I counted it twice and only came up with ten. I say do it again and this time, do it properly.

    Also, isn’t it like the Kos Kiddies to complain when he was hanged with a brand new rope

    At least up into the 60s, when I first enlisted, the Army still had a field manual on executions, though I think it was on restricted distribution since theoretically it wouldn’t be used below theater or Army level. I never saw a copy, but have read references to it, and as I recall its two major parts covered the firing squad procedures and the hanging procedures. Hanging was to be done with a one-inch, stretched hemp or manila rope — the pre-stretching to prevent unseemly, springy bouncing by the guest of honor. When hanging was a relatively common punishment in the U.S., I believe some of the more proficient practitioners recommended the rope be “oiled,” though I don’t know exactly why or how.

    The 13 turns are traditional, though I doubt it makes much difference past the fourth or fifth turn, if the idea is that the thick “lump” to one side helps in breaking the neck properly.

    The Iraqi’s rope does indeed look about one-inch, but the loops don’t seem to make more than about ten turns.

    The old Army manual supposedly contained some useful weight & height tables for calculating the proper drop for individual clients. I suspect some militaria collectors probably have copies of this thing sitting around somewhere and eventually it’ll turn up on eBay.

  108. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I UNITED STATES

    Hey, what happened to KB’s comments? Like mine on another thread a few days ago, they just disappeared. Is this what happens now when someone says something that someone else doesn’t agree with?

    I don’t know what happened to yours, DJ. I checked Spam Karma as soon as I was alerted to it (through the comments), and your comments weren’t in there for moderation.

    However, in kb’s case it’s just because he “snowballed.” New user, tons of comments, automatic send to the moderation queue, retroactively.

    I’ve fixed it now and, hopefully, Spam Karma will focus its attention elsewhere.

  109. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Yeah, this kb clown must have a tough time getting a grip on reality:

    Wow! That’s all the evidence I needed. I mean, if “Gateway” says it, it must be something to put stock into. Still nothing little juanita..to? Just the assertion that the left is “insane”? Yes, well, that’s possible

    kb also must be incapable of reading and or understanding what’s been shown in the links at Gateway Pundit’s site…

    Then again if one gets the spanking Jim of Gateway lays on the libtards then I guess its understandable why kb is whining like a whipped dog… :lol_wp:

  110. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Actually, my boss does a lot of writing for Common Dreams

    :lol_wp: :lol_wp:

    So now we know what sort of person pens some of the nonsenes on, “Common Psychotics“… :lol_wp:

    Thanks Dave… I needed a laugh this morning and you have done a great job of providing it…

    BTW your boss, well what a crackpot!

    What’s next? Black helicopters landing on his front yard?… :lol_wp:

    Thanks to Ollie North we have a good description of your boss: It’s hard to say exactly when the Democrats decisively left the reservation for the parallel universe that exists only in their own imaginations. In their world, Bill Clinton was impeached solely because Republicans were “trying to overturn the election”; Al Gore would be president today if only Jeb Bush hadn’t stolen the election in Florida; and Osama bin Laden is a CIA operative who orchestrated September 11 to justify the end of civil liberties in the United States. This litany of conspiracy theories barely scratches the surface of the paranoid mentality that currently infects American liberals.

  111. Unregistered Comment by NR Pax UNITED STATES

    When I referred to comment #4, it was a DIFFERENT comment #4!!

    I wasn’t talking about NR Pax!!

    No offense taken, TDCG23. I was comment #5 anyways.

    Gotta admit that the firestorm on this thread has been impressive. And I’m proud that I got in on the ground floor with my effort to be polite to kb.

  112. Unregistered Comment by NR Pax UNITED STATES

    Gents, after some consideration, I feel I should answer some of kb’s earlier statements to me. If this is an instance of “feeding the trolls” feel free to delete the comment.

    Yes, this is a nice copout. It’s been used to support many of the most brutal dictators of our times, as well as throughout history.

    OK, that bit of rudeness was a touch out of line. I have not insulted you, nor baited you in any manner here. I simply answered your statement.

    And it’s not a copout. U.S. foreign policy, and presumably the foreign policy of any country with elected representatives, tends to be a bit short-sighted. It comes from worrying more about getting re-elected than trying to implement a long-term plan. Besides, Sadaam was considered an ally and then he was not. Things change, administrations change, new facts come out and the people who run the CIA change.

    Perhaps we should be reconsidering whose interest we should be supporting, say, perhaps, the vast majority of the population of these countries. Just a thought.kb

    Actually, we need to worry more about our own country in terms of our foreign policy.

    Would you like references? They’re only all over the place. But if you want me to do the work it’ll take all of 1 minute. Are you denying this?kb

    You post a long-winded tirade that comes across as a conspiracy theory, so yes I am going to ask for sources. And your saying that it wasn’t until several comments later that you could post references? I’m sure that post #9 took about five minutes on your part. You could have spared another minute.

    It’s technically illegal to invade another country. Period!

    I agree.

    It’s definitely illegal.

    Yes, defeated by an illegal invasion. Sort of skipping the basics, aren’t we?

    Again with the uncalled rudeness. But no, I am not skipping the basics. Sadaam invaded Kuwait, his country was defeated. As a result, the terms of his surrender were spelled out quite clearly.

    He refused to comply, he allowed his people to starve, his ground stations targetted U.S. planes that were enforcing the No Fly Zone and the U.N. did nothing. The only thing that was different was that President Bush finally called upon the U.N. to do what they had promised.

    Slightly less than the number of U.S. troops killed already for oil. Do you have “any references”?

    That’s only fair.

    Here.
    (By the way, isn’t it illegal to have a mass execution and bury the bodies in mass graves?)

    Here

    and even Here

    So far, all the research is proving is that the death toll under Saddam’s regime is in the six figures, which is far more than the number of U.S. troops that have died over there.

  113. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    I don’t know what happened to yours, DJ. I checked Spam Karma as soon as I was alerted to it (through the comments), and your comments weren’t in there for moderation.

    And, lest any of the semi-accusatory types (no, not you, Sire - never you) care to point a finger in my direction, let it be pointed out that my comments got torched, too (in fact, I was the first one to point it out).

    I’m not in the habit of hosing my own stuff - it’s too damned good.

  114. Mope, Imperial Knucklehead Comment by Mope, Imperial Knucklehead UNITED STATES

    That I care about what the country does and say something about it instead of blindly cheerleading any action simply because it’s my team?

    That’s fine, KB, but just once in a while could you toss a bone for the good things we do? Could you just name one thing the U.S. has done?

    Your funny.

    You’re edumacated.

    You remind me of some guy who is a fanatic about his team at school. He’s sitting on the bench, of course, and scraming constantly that the “other team” is fouling, cheating, the refs are wrong, etc…He thinks he’s a patriot for his team. Then there is the rational guy sitting next to him. He’s probably a leftist, just to let you know. He sees that not only that it is HIS team which is fouling, cheating, etc…but that this is bad for his team in the final analysis. He mentions that it WAS a foul by their own teammate only to be ridiculed that he’s a traitor to his team. Later when they watch the game again on video, they both see their own team member clothes-lining someone from the other team. The leftiy says “See?! John clothes-lined him!” the other guy, you, says “See?! That guy ran into John’s arm! He didn’t foul him! You’re a traitor!” You’re a traitor! You should move to a different team unless you plan on internalizing my mis-perceptions about reality and then stand behind them willing to fight! Communist!” YOU probably see this second guy as the patriotic team member. Sorry, but his position is NOT good for the team. He’s basically a simple idiot and liar.

    When you have have the second string team whining and sniveling about how poorly the first string is at passing, dribbling and shooting, and how well the opponents are playing, somebody has to take them into the lockeroom and give them a swirlie before it affects morale. If allowed to fester, it becomes evident that half the team is on the other side.

    As proof, let me offer how well the Ethiopians are doing against the Islamists. No whining there. They’re just kickin’ ass and takin’ names.

    Now, how about telling ‘the team’ one thing the U.S. has done that you appreciate?

  115. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    And, lest any of the semi-accusatory types (no, not you, Sire - never you) care to point a finger in my direction, let it be pointed out that my comments got torched, too (in fact, I was the first one to point it out).

    I wasn’t pointing in any particular direction, Spats. I know that you and I both had comments disappear. I was just questioning why.

    With the high levels of rebuttal on this site, there is really no reason for anyone to want to delete any content here — unless it is truly offensive, illegal, or subversive.

  116. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    With the high levels of rebuttal on this site, there is really no reason for anyone to want to delete any content here — unless it is truly offensive, illegal, or subversive.

    Which is something rarer than low-fat food on Michael Moore-on’s plate on the Left side of the InterWebNeTubes®.

    :smoke_tb:

    (Note to Dave: That’s for our little Che-adoring, Nipponese flag-bearing Chimskyite. Not you.)

  117. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    I just installed an audit-trail plugin here. It will track all actions here, and allow for recovery if needed. For example, I just found out that Misha did the following:

    misha Edit comment 68162 2006-12-31 15:13:39

  118. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    I wasn’t pointing in any particular direction, Spats. I know that you and I both had comments disappear.

    Oh, no, Dave.  I didn’t think you’d done any pointing, for that very reason.  No worries there.

    For some reason, though, some of the LCs like to yell at me whenever something like that happens.  I’m just being proactive, is all.

  119. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    For some reason, though, some of the LCs like to yell at me whenever something like that happens. I’m just being proactive, is all.

    Well, now there is a plugin that will tell us who did what and when. For example, I know that you just edited your last comment:


    (Click to enlarge)

    Now you can tell someone they can shove their accusations up sideways if they blame you for something…

    It will do other things, too, like tell me who or what is trying to hack into the site.

    Hopefully, this will put an end to unfounded speculation, and at the same time let those of us with admin powers to determine what is going on behind the scenes a little better.

    Coming very soon: a couple of new plugins/features everyone might find interesting.

    (no, it isn’t a virtual gallows, firing range, or anything like that. You will just have to wait and see. But first, I have to finish playing with my new Audi A8…)

  120. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    Now you can tell someone they can shove their accusations up sideways if they blame you for something…

    You should know me better’n that by now.  I do that anyway

  121. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    You should know me better’n that by now. I do that anyway.

    And you do it in so many different languages, too. I am always impressed. :lol_wp:

  122. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    Hello? This is a test. I’ve responded to several folks, but seem to have been..uhh…disrupted. I’m sure it wasn’T an attempt to disallow any responses and comments. I mean, REAL AMericans, those who know anything about freedom of speech wouldn’t even think of doing such a thing. Probably just a techincal difficulty. Yes?kb

  123. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    I’ll respond to this example as I’m sure that a similar deduction has been made by a few others who have little to offer.

    “Mrs. M”

    “aren’t you making an assumption that KB is a “piss skinned (sic) rice monger” based on the only fact that he/she just happens to be posting from Japan?”

    Probably. It’s okay though. When little boys can’t quite keep up with the big boys they often allow name-calling to take the place of intelligent debate. In the case of the fellow you quoted, his racism also
    happened to slip in this time. Most intelligent folks realize that this is just lurking beneath the surface anyway. It’s just nice to hear it actually pop out in a time of honest “clarity”. Doesn’t bother me at all to be called names by you folks because I know and you know that this is all you can offer. Can’t make an argument, attack the messenger.kb

    “Oh geeez!! I KNOW it’s time for caffeine when there is something Allen said that I have to agree with.
    He might be showing he’s in Japan guys…”

    Yes, I AM in Japan, guys. So? Is this supposed to mean something? What are inferring here? That because I’m in Japan, for 9 years now, and Taiwan for three before this, means that I would have different ideas or something? Please “try” and explain yourself.kb

    “but he sounds way too much like a San Franciscan Edumacated Moonbat if ever there was one.”

    Actually, I DID live in and around San Franciso for 8 years before going to Taiwan. So, once again, I’ll ask what your statement above is supposed to mean.
    What sounds “San Franciscan”? What do you “think” you see which would indicate this sort of education? Sorry, I had most of these ideas LOOOONG before I went to San Francisco after growing up in the Bible belt. And your ilks use of the term “moonbat” is rather juvenile, don’t you think? Can’t you even make up your own derogatory terms and insults? And besides, would you rather be hanging around with openly racist “boys”, than supposed “moonbats”, even though there is no evidence given for just what makes them qualify as moonbats? If you would rather hang out with the boys what does this make you?kb

    “You know I’m generally one to jump on the insult wagon along with the rest of you but maybe you should back off the “Jap” references on this one.”

    Good to see a little liberal sensitivity seep in after the seemingly proud claim of jumping on the insult bandwagon. Perhaps it’s because your a female, sort of, maybe. Just a San Franciscan guess.kb

    “Besides…it looks like kb is a hit and run troll. He blew his wad on that long screeching screed and he’s passed out on the floor sucking his thumb.”

    Now, to respond to the deduction which often comes after one has been silenced for whatever reason (98% of the time for making comments contrary to the opinions of the masters liking). As of this comment no one has given an example of trolling, another diversion word so as not to have to deal with issues. Or perhaps your type feels that any analysis at all is trolling, and especially if there are any more than two consecutive thoughts in the same response. So, I’ll allow you to give evidence for this non-issue as well. Perhaps you even think what I’m doing right now is trolling, yes? I mean, after all, I’ve asked several questions which actually relate to something happening here. I’ve used more than nice little empty of content soundbites to express my thoughts. I’ve now asked you to try and respond if you think you can. What more evidence for trolling could one ask for. Oh, and just to let you know, I WILL be responding A LOT now that the Berlin Wall has been lifted. I have a lot of catching up to do so that other folks won’t think I’ve taken off because I was so intimidated by your by your intellectual prowess. You know, like the “passed out on the floor sucking his thumb” drivel. Of course THIS isn’t trolling. THIS is an example of worthy contribution to trying to debate and make an argument. Orwell is sitting here beside me now crying from laughing so hard. I’ll be waiting for more “enlightening comments”.kb

  124. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    I’ll start at #75 because my responses to earlier comments fell long after they were made, thereby creating a large gap I don’t really feel the need to return to. However, if you responded to something I said, or made a comment you’d like a response on before #75, please let me know which number, or leave the comment again and I will answer. I mean, if my comments mysteriously aren’t accepted again. Oh, and you don’t really need to leave the troll icon near my name as it’s rather juvenile and there has been no evidence yet presented. Perhaps you can just leave an “Don’t know how to comment because I’m unable to challenge anything kb has said in a reasonable manner” icon. Is that too long? Anyway, back to the drawing board.kb

    LC & IB Tiberius (’Caesar Salad’ for short)said:

    “BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!”

    Should have stopped here when they were still on two an three letter sounds and offering something more than last time.kb

    “Hartford Web Publishing?
    Representative Press?
    Common Dreams?
    Global Policy Forum”

    Uhh…Yes? Were you going to challenge something with the content of the links I left, or do what the right usually does and just try and criticize the sites you don’t like? I’ll be waiting for some challenge from at least one of them. Oh, and by challenge, I don’t mean that the color of their wallpaper is off.kb

    “Sorry fuckwit, but 9/11 conspiracy tossers”

    Okay, here we go. Let’s demonstrate my point. Let’s see how many things he challenges and how much evidence he gives for his childish comments. No eivdence of “conspiracy tossers”. Nothing there. Maybe it’s further down the page.kb

    “communist apologists”

    Nope. Nothing here either. Just an old empty charge with nothing to back it up. Perhaps lower?kb

    “anyone quoting anything by Fisk”

    Nothing here either other than an example that intelligence and honest are to be derided. Fisk is one of the most respected, intelligent, informed, and knowledgable folks on many of the topics at hand. He tells the truth, this clashes with the western propaganda and the indoctrination which it’s supposed to have so as to produce comments like the one above, and this is presicely why he’s despised by the victims of propaganda. It demonstrates how well the U.S. propaganda services are working. AT least you don’t need to worry that all of the money which you are unaware that you give the military and related agencies for the expressed purpose of producing comments like yours is going to waste. You’re living proof that they are getting their money’s worth.kb

    “and the other assorted mootbat morons you’ve quoted as “sources” don’t count in the real world.”

    Well, there we have it. Lots of babble and not one shred of evidence for any of his assertions. However, being the gentleman I am, I’ll allow you to produce whatever evidence you can for coming to the conclusions you have regarding the factual content of the sites presented. I’ll be waiting.(This will probably be the last we ever hear from this little man with the big mouth. I mean Caesar? How appropriate.) Maybe it’s lower.kb

    “Hey I know - let’s get in an argument about the JOOOOOOS so then you can quote the Protocols of Elder Zion and Mein Kampf as “proof” that what you say is true….”

    Hey, let’s just try and respond to the items I’ve pointed out first, and then, after you’ve failed to produce anything there, I can ask to explain your shallow inferences here, not that it’s necessary. I just want to see if you can do it. Well, can you?(snore) Speaking of Mein Kampf, Hitler does recognize how well the west’s propaganda worked in WWI and said he would be using it next time around. At least he was aware of how it was used by the west on the unsuspecting folks like yourself in order to produce the exact results which we’ve seen here. That’s pretty pathetic and sad that even a wimp like Hitler recognized things about the west which you are obviously unaware of as has been shown here.kb

    Well, there we have it folks. I guess he was so fired up on that pseudo-patriotism that he just forgot, well, to try and prove anything. I openly left a very small sample of where I get a small bit of my data from. Where’s yours? I’m sure you get your ideas from somewhere, yes? I mean, thus far I can find most of the ideas you’ve expressed in the toilet stall of pretty much any truck stop in the U.S. Were you ever planning to demonstrate that these links were all of the things you’ve so cynically claimed above, or just demonstrate how often you eat at Taco Bell by blowing similar quantities of wind? Just curious.kb

  125. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    When little boys can’t quite keep up with the big boys they often allow name-calling to take the place of intelligent debate.

    When you prove you’re a big boy, maybe we’ll take you a little more seriously.

    Until then, you’re nothing but a pansy-ass.  And a pretty pathetic one at that.

  126. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    Comment by BC Imperial Torturer

    “You call those “sources”?”

    Uhhh….Yes. You call your response some sort of evidence that they are not sources? It’s okay. I’ll wait for you to demonstrate what’s wrong with them. Meanwhile, why don’t you give me a few of your own so that I can determine if you and Caesar are studying the same toilet stall walls for your data. I mean, I’m SURE that neither of you would be getting your data from the “liberal media”, right? You wouldn’t be that blatently hypocritical now would you. Well, where do you get your data? Simple answers to the questions would be most appreciated. I mean, I wasn’t really expecting any other kind anyway, but, I think answer slightly longer utterences than the two and three letter sounds like Caesar did in his first “comment”, even if it was his best.kb
    ======================================================
    LC Mrs. M said:

    “You know kb you might almost have a minutely small chance of convincing folks that you have more than two sentient neurons to rub together if you would take the time to USE THE DAMN BLOCK QUOTE.”

    Really? My not using blocks quotes really has this much significance? I’d have to question someone “sentient neurons” who thought that using block quotes matter so much. Actually, this is the first site I’ve ever been on which was so concerned about this non-issue. “Who cares if the car has an engine as long as the nody looks good.” THIS is your logic and concern? I think I’d be worried a little more about saying something intelligent and responding to something worthwhile than worrying about whether or not I use a few icons. Get your priorities straight. Next she’ll be pointing out my typos because, well, she has nothing else to offer. Perhaps it’s difficult for just one brain cell to have anything at all to rub against. If I put a little “troll” icon by my name up there will you feel better? Is THIS important, too?kb
    ======================================================
    HJ Caveman82952 said:

    “Jesus, part one….. Somebody needs to get a life.”

    I agree. So, tell the last few folks I’ve responded to to start doing something, like reading, and then come back in a few years when they have something to offer. Jesus!kb

    “I’m long past throwing links around or letting these cretins dictate the tone of discourse. I simply tell them that to run my life and dictate my affairs, they had best know how to use weapons. All I hear beyond that point is insults and such, but never a confrontation…. All in all, they are just throwing a panty wah after Saddam got his neck stretched. Again, to get a life..l..they never learn.”

    And they are dictating nothing as far as I’m concerned. Oh, sure, they’d like to, as dictatorial tendencies seem to be a part of their natures, but I think you may be giving them too much credit if you think they’re dictating anything. And the comment that they’ll never learn, while true for the most part, isn’t always true.. I’ve met five or six folks from the right who almost had a few of the weapons you referred to above, and even one or two who did they almost unthinkable and actually read ONE or two of the sources I left. I even had one guy, and tell me this isn’t radical, who, after mouthing off a few incorrect assertions about Chomsky, was challenged by myself to read several of his works which would demonstrate that his comments were nonsense. Now, you probably know as well as I do that it rarely even comes close to getting this far, but it actually happened, once. He read them. And better yet, he came back to the same blog and started slamming the anti-Chomskyites for making the same dumbass assertions which he had previously been making. I gave him credit for his honesty and effort. I mean, asking someone from the right to read anything besides Guns and Ammo or the Victoria’s Secret catalog is, well, you know. True, he WAS slightly less indoctrinated than the folks I’ve seen drooling here, but he wasn’t THAT much less. He still has some functioning faculties. I could ask a really deep question like “You have made some incorrect comments regarding Chomsky’s position on several things. Have you read him?” You know, a really deep one like that, and he answered, and this is what I couldn’t believe, “No, I haven’t.” He actually admitted the obvious truth. He automatically went up to the top 2 percentile of right-wingers I’ve met. He then went one step further and agreed that it was probably a good idea to actually read something about the man if he was going to be discussing him. Yes, yes, I know what you’re thiniking; “He must not have been a true right-winger in the first place or he would never have allowed himself to slip and take such drastic and uncharacteristic actions at all.” Perhaps.kb

  127. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    Really? My not using blocks quotes really has this much significance?

    Actually KB, it does. While I am the lone person here who actually agrees with much of what you are saying, the fact is, because you are replying to many different people at a time, it is a lot easier to separate your thoughts from someone else’s. It just makes it easier to read, that’s all.

  128. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    Fisk is one of the most respected, intelligent, informed, and knowledgable folks on many of the topics at hand.

    :lol_wp:

    Dave, no further proof is needed. KB can now go back to trying to figure out how HalliBusHitlerCo™ used HAARP to create Hurricane Katrina, steer it towards NOLA and force the po’ black folks from their homes so that the Eeeeevil Rethuglicans could come in, tear down their houses and put up casinos.

    KB, you really should put down the bong at least once every decade or so.

    Buh-bye.

  129. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    :lol_wp:
    Christ on a crutch, this turkey never quits, does he…….. I’ve had time to clean my garage, detail a car and build a lumber rack……BC, I understand your frustration. Nothing sinks in, absolutely nothing.
    :lol_wp:

  130. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Un.Fucking. Believable.

    How can anyone be so fucking stupid? No conspiracy theorists? On the frontpage of Representative Press we have:

    Hiding 9/11 Motives: Big Media “Plays the Game”
    (This is the same media that leaks sensitive information in a time or war and deliberately uses false information and outright lies to try to influence elections) and

    Bush Is Lying about the Motives Behind 9/11

    not to mention quotes from Chomsky (as big a liar as Fisk) and the obligatory “Evil JOOOOOOS” stories.

    From Hartfrod Web Publishing we have, under their World History Archives:

    Over 12000 searchable documents to support the study of world history from a working-class perspective.

    Working class persepctive? That is leftist codespeak for “showing how evil Capitalism and America is and how much better things could be with collectivisation” or more simply (and/or cynically) “Communist Propoganda”

    Common Dreams? The progressive community? See above. Communists, eco-terrorists, lies, spies, and traitors. Nothing coming out of their mouths is worth anything. You even have on bitch, telling those Iraqis in Michigan (many of whom had relatives tortured and murdered by Saddam) that they are disgusting for celebrating his death and telling them that is was not worth it for the imaginary 650,000 Iraqi deaths.

    And the Global Policy Forum? Please. All about the evils of America, Global Warming, The WTO, World Bank, IMF, Multinational Corporations etc. And their ultimate agenda?

    …a stronger role for the UN in global social and economic policy.

    Does your mommy know you are wasting so much of your time on the computer?

    As Lord Spatula suggested, show us you can argue like self-thinking adult and we’ll take you more seriously.

  131. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    KB is un-fuckin-believable. I have read all of his comments. Every one (yes my eyes are bleedin). He site as sources obviously biased, leftist sources, and when he is challenged on their credibility all he can offer in retort is that we are all brainwashed by “propaganda”, without backing up his counter claims against our sources.

    His arrogance typifies the left. Their beliefs are so self apparent that they don’t need to vet their sources or validate their claims. They are true simply because they say it is, they believe it, and it therefore must be. Kind of turns Voltaire on his head.
    A lot of the pot calling the kettle black and all that. (oops, does that make me a racist because I said “black”. Probably in KB’s eyes it does).

    I’m still waiting on a valid source from KB that the CIA put Saddam in power. I may be just a simple grunt, but it seems to me that the CIA isn’t going to do anything to help an avowed socialist come to power anywhere in the world during the height of the cold war. Especially a socialist who belongs to a known anti-west political party, IE the Baathists’.

    KB, back up your sources, discredit ours (once you acknowledge that they may come from an actual real world view learned the hard way, paid for in blood in some cases), or shut the f up and go away.

  132. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    Amen, crunchie. Something about these people so disgusting and venal as to defy description. I didn’t expect anything different and so far haven’t been disappointed. The same twisting of our words and such, same old shit. Unlike some of the ego driven day trippers I have things to do around here. I’m fighting to hold on to a second house we bought as a rental, built things here today, just doing domestic stuff. Now to write a letter to a soldier in Iraq. I am his soldiers angel and he is down in the dumps…it’s called doing for others, and I have a soft spot big as the world for soldiers……but then again, look at the entertainment value these people provide….the juvenile goading and such. I’ve laughed like hell.

  133. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    LC & IB Tiberius said:

    “Don’t you know? Block Quotes are a CIA tool to spread Bushitlers empire. Or something. In fact, I’ll bet the Block Quote button is what got Saddam set up in the first place!”

    Wouldn’t know anything about this. I’m interested in fact, not fairy tale. But if you have any evidence for your assertion, you know, that stuff which as of this sentence you haven’t produced for anything else, I’d be more than happy to look at it. Meanwhile, here are a few actual links to a few actual C.I.A. folks who actually know what’s been happening over the years, because, well, they were right in the middle of it. (For those of you who could easily be led to not taking the time to even consider what these gentlemen have said below, simply because a few illiterates (above) have tried to keep you from learning anything real by trying to shift your focus away from the substance and content onto the name-calling and empty criticisms they’ve offered thus far, you know, like criticizing the name of the link, as if they know anythihg about them in the first place, I’d say to notice the credientials and then decide, NOT allow Caesar and the other comics try and divert your attention with their dis-information strategies. Actually, this isn’t a correct use of the term, disinformation. Disinformation assumes that there has been incorrect information consciously passed along to the unsuspecting, i.e., most of the right, and even some of the left, to try and sway their thinking in the preferred direction. This can usually be quite easily recognized by most anyone with even one eye open. Take Caesar, right now. Rather than challenging anything, he tries to prevent YOU from even considering going as far as actually reading the materials, learning and knowing what they say, and then, perhaps, trying to make an educated challenge to any of them. This is allowing things to go too far. Having read both sides of an argument, one could potentially be led to a position as to be able to weigh and compare the information from both sides and possibly come to some informed position. It’s of great importance never to allow thought to get to this dangerous point as the potential for losing another blind pseudo-patriotic cheerleader is being greatly enhanced. So, let’s see how many of you angry loudmouth right-wingers here can actually read for yourselves, learn what some opposing ideas actually say in their own words, NOT those cliches which you learned in right-wing cliche class, and make some sort of argument. We can start with these guys, whose credentials are probably slightly more impressive than to the sad, pathetic, little peewee calling himself Tiberius (probably because he’s a small weak man with a God complex, even though I doubt God herself would be much impressed) and try and make arguments with them AFTER you’ve finished reading. Here are few folks and their credentials:

    John Stockwell:
    “John Stockwell, former CIA Station Chief in Angola in 1976, working for then Director of the CIA, George Bush. He spent 13 years in the agency. He gives a short history of CIA covert operations. He is a very compelling speaker and the highest level CIA officer to testify to the Congress about his actions. He estimates that over 6 million people have died in CIA covert actions, and this was in the late 1980’s.”
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm

    Ralph McGehee:
    “a former officer of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). He worked for the CIA from 1952 to 1977 yet went on to be a critic of the agency.”
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/Deadly_Deceits.html

    He joined the Central Intelligence Agency in 1957 and worked as a case officer in several Latin American countries.
    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKagee.htm

    “I spent 21 years in the CIA as what’s called a case officer. That means that I went overseas and served overseas almost all the years I spent with the CIA, meeting with what we call agents. Those are foreigners who spy for the CIA. And you write up their reports and send them back to Washington. So I was a field officer, in short.”
    http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/09/12_baer.html
    http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpWESSEX/Documents/EnergyAug2006.htm

    That’s enough for now. Now, let’s hear something other than whining. I’m going back to bed. Ahem.kb

    “Sorry. I was channelling a fucking moron for a moment.”

    Had you learned anything from the left you would have known that you don’t usually channel yourself. Perhaps throwing chicken bones and reading them, or reading the skid marks in the front of your Hello Kitty underwear might help.kb

  134. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    LC & IB Tiberius said:

    “Don’t you know? Block Quotes are a CIA tool to spread Bushitlers empire. Or something. In fact, I’ll bet the Block Quote button is what got Saddam set up in the first place!”

    kb replied: Wouldn’t know anything about this. I’m interested in fact, not fairy tale. But if you have any evidence for your assertion, you know, that stuff which as of this sentence you haven’t produced for anything else, I’d be more than happy to look at it.

    Heres a link for you to read KB

    http://www.answers.com/topic/sarcasm

    :lol_wp:

  135. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Awwww. Isn’t that cute?

    He’s trying to return fire.

    Pretty bold making physical claims about someone you’ve never seen (fyi - 184cm, 102 Kg).

    And thinking I’m god? So what you’re saying is that I think I don’t exist? Nice work, dipshit.

    And you might want to take a closer look at history.

    If you knew about Tiberius Caesar’s disdain for the Senate and the “nobles” who thought themselves better than everyone else, and you had the brain power to realise that it is leftist fuckheads today that think they are better than everyone else, you would then see why I chose Tiberius.

  136. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Just saw the link you posted crunchie!

    Fucking classic :laugh_tb:

  137. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Aw shucks, thanks Tiberius :embarrassed_ee:

  138. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Caveman re #133, say hi to your soldier for me and all my clan, tell him God Bless, he is loved by a lot of people he has never even met.

    And God Bless you for being a Soldiers Angel. You’re doing a damn good thing.

  139. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    Had you learned anything from the left you would have known that you don’t usually channel yourself. Perhaps throwing chicken bones and reading them, or reading the skid marks in the front of your Hello Kitty underwear might help.

    My, but you’re awfully brave hiding behind your daddy’s skirt all the way over there in Japan, aren’t you, dickweed?

    Shame you’re over there and we’re over here.  I’d almost pay real money to have you bring your swishy chickenshit ass over here and say that to one of our faces.

    Even money says you’d piss and  shit your pants at the prospect.  That, of course, owing to the fact that you’re quite the little pussy, y’know.

  140. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    BC Imperial Torturer said:

    “Oh, and that “minute” turned into almost 11 hours and that’s all you could come up with?”

    On the contrary, it was less than a minute. You wish for quick responses, don’t talk to me about the delays. I entered the data when I said I would. Now, rather than whining about it, why not shut up, read the links, and challenge something?kb

    “You sure you’re not William Rivers Pitt from the Demented Ungulates & Truth(BeDamned)Out.Org?
    (Hint: “24 business hours”)”

    Nope. Don’t know the fellow. Is he a “lfety”? I don’t go to left blogs very often, so I wouldn’t know. Why would I go to them?kb

    “kb, you’re so unbelievably dense that you almost make me wish for the days of “Um Yeah” and his boxing glove-wearing buddies.”

    Perhaps, but as of this sentence you sure have not done one thing to demonstrate this. I WILL, however, give you the opportunity to do so if you think you can. You know, like after you’re finished with the “dense” statements. Personally, I consider itdense when someone calls someone else dense and doesn’t provide any evidence for it. But then again, I’m a lefty, and this is one of the ways we differ, by definition I should say.kb

    ======================================================
    jaybear said:

    “kb bleats:
    If you’d like to get into U.S. propaganda I’m game. Ive been studying it for more than 20 years. Let me know.”

    “ohhhh….we got ourselves a subscriber to the NY Times.”

    Nope. But the N.Y.T has sure helped in the past. I mean, serving as a mouthpiece for state power. I can see where you’re probably already going, so I’ll recommend a few books for beginners so that you can begin your education. And I don’t want to hear any whining about who the authors are, how thick their glasses are, or any of the other reasons for the typical right-wing laziness to act as an excuse to keep you from educating yourself:

    1)Propaganda by Edward Bernays
    2)The Father of Spin by Larry Tye
    3)Rich Media, Poor Democracy by Robert McChesney (This is a MUST for anyone seriously wanting to be aware of even the basics of the media)
    4)Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky and Herman
    5)Beyond Hypocrisy by Edward Herman
    6)Public Opinion by Walter Lippmann
    7)20 Years of Censored News by Carl Jensen
    8)Wizards of Media Oz by Solomon and Cohen
    9)Necessary Illusions by Noam Chomsky

    That’s enough for now. Now, after you’ve finished these I’ll give you next years assignment.kb
    ======================================================
    LC & IB Tiberius said:

    Ive been studying it for more than 20 years.(kb)

    “Studying it for 20 years and still not learned a fucking thing.”

    On the contrary, I’ve learned a lot. And your comments are actually helping to demostrate my points, though I doubt you’re quit equipped to recognize this. With most every passing comment you make it become all the more apparent. This is why I DO hope you keep offering similar comments. You’re one of the best sources for evidence to support my thesis that I’ve come across in a while. I mean, why do you think I actually come to right-wing blogs?kb
    ======================================================
    LC Guido Cabrone said:

    “Are you referring to those folks who YOU supported for many years without knowing about it, or are you talking about those other fellows who you supported for many years without knowing about it?”kb

    “And which people were these in the first and second issues?”

    Read and see. Doesn’t really matter much either way though as you’ve been supporting either of them, plus many more, probably without knowing.kb

    “And while we are on this subject, are you next going to claim that we (the United States), supported the Soviet Gulags due to the fact that aides to Senator Kennedy were in contact witht he KGB during the Cold War?”

    Why would I do that? True Truman had nothing against Stalin either and said he could work with him as long as the U.S. got theior way at least 80% of the time, and this was AFTER the Gulags, and most of the other worst crimes, but why would I do that? Here. How about a few quotes. Go here and study a little:

    “It was not Stalin’s crimes that troubled Western leaders. Truman noted in his diary, “I can deal with Stalin,” who is “honest — but smart as hell.”
    (How often do you hear this quote)

    “Truman went much further. When Germany attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941, he commented that “If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany and that way let them kill as many as possible.” By 1943, the US began to reinstate Fascist collaborators and sympathizers in Italy, a pattern that extended through the world as territories were liberated, reinstating the tolerance for fascism as a barrier to radical social change. Recall that Soviet aggression was not an issue prewar, nor anticipated postwar.5
    http://www.zmag.org/CHOMSKY/year/year-c03-s03.html

    “Or that the US is responsible for Tiananmen Square because Nixon made a state visit to China during the early 70’s?”

    No connection that I’m aware of, but there could be one somewhere. Would have to do a little research and find out, huh. This is what scholars do, see. What they DON’T do is run from factual data so as to perpetuate the preferred myth.kb

    “It was common knowledge during the 80s amongst my circle of friends that the US was supplying Iraq with intelligence information during the Iran/Iraq war, and that The Soviet Union and France were supplying him with weapons and chemical warfare equipment and supplies.”

    I’d have to say that you and your circle of friends was quite limited in relation to this knowledge being known by the majority of the general public. The question is why? Why wasn’t this known by the mass of the population? Why wasn’t it known by the mass of the population that the U.S. supporting Saddam from the beginning, and before, during, and after his worst crimes? I mean, after all, their tax dollars are paying for it. One would think they might like to be told what they’re helping to pay for, yes? How about a Congressional Report for some background data:
    http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/s092002.html
    http://www.counterpunch.org/dixon06172004.html

    “Col. Walter P. Lang, a senior defense intelligence officer at the time, explained that D.I.A. and C.I.A. officials “were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose” to Iran. “The use of gas on the battlefield by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern,” he said. One veteran said, that the Pentagon “wasn’t so horrified by Iraq’s use of gas.” “It was just another way of killing people _ whether with a bullet or phosgene, it didn’t make any difference.”
    http://www.counterpunch.org/boles1010.html
    http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorbkgd/uscorpsiniraq.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_warfare
    http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2422
    http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2177

    “Oddly enough, what I hear from my sources on the ground in Iraq is that nearly everything they find that is not indigenous to the country is either French or Russian.”

    What the hell do you think they’re going to say? That they’ve found, “lots more U.S. manufactured and supplied weapons”? Let’s at least attempt to be a little serious. The U.S. supported him for 20+ years, giving him aid of all sorts, weapons of all sorts, etc…and you are going to try and say that these things just don’t exist? Yet another attempt to refuse to accept responsibility. Don’t you guys EVER get past this apologetics stage, or is it so deeply ingrained that it dispossess you of even minimal rational thought? I can just hear some Nazi apologist claiming that there were no German weapons found in any of the countries they invaded, or in any of those countries in which they supplied the weapons to so as to impose fascism.kb

    “(With the exception of two crates of Uzi subguns that turned up in one of the palaces. I suppose that this means the ISRAELIS were supplying Hussein with weapons and technology, at least in your rattlingly empty, cut and paste skull.)”

    You have demonstrated nothing thus far, other than you aren’t even capable of cutting and pasting where you’ve gotton your data. But to respond to your nonsensical blurb above, Israel, as far as I recall, never went to Iraq, became buddies with Saddam, supplied him with weapons for 20 years, including chemical weapons, which, as has already been demonstrated, he used on many people. So, why should I think Israel supported Saddam? I mean, true, there probably could be a few Israeli arms dealers who would have little problem indirectly supplying him if a buck could be made, you know those arms dealers. It would actually be pretty easy. Some dealer from Country X, whic isn’t on such hostile terms with Israel, expresses an interest in purchasing some of the Israeli manufactured weapons. Israel says sure. The dealer takes them to Saddam, hikes up the price, Saddam asks one of the presidents from the U.S. for some money to buy these great new weapons which they need to fight against Iran, or whoever, the U.S. gives Saddam YOUR money to buy them, and he uses them to fight against Israel, etc… at some later date. Hardly need an MBA to figure out business deals this basic.kb
    ======================================================

  141. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    What the hell do you think they’re going to say? That they’ve found, “lots more U.S. manufactured and supplied weapons”?

    Are you accusing the troops on the ground of lying or of being part of some great conspiracy, reaching all the way down to the PFC and LCpl level? Which is it?

    Iraq had no US supplied weaponry of any sort, not even an f’ng 1911A1. And guess what, they still don’t! They had so much surplus Soviet junk laying around we don’t even have to give em anything new. EVERY, and I mean EVERY piece of Iraqi weaponry is of Soviet or French (the more sophisticated anti-armor, anti-shipping, and anti-air weaponry) origin. Show me one source showing US or coalition troops with captured Iraqi weaponry of US origin. Can’t do it can ya?

    We never supplied them with chemical weapons, period. The slime Hussein used was generally known to be Soviet manufactured Phosgene and Sarin. This was common knowledge during the Iraq/Iran war to everybody, even down to my grunt level. It was one of those “the sky is blue” moments.

    KB, you’ve lost your novelty as a new chew toy. Your counter points are so vapid and devoid of coherence they stopped making sense along time ago. You’re not even fun anymore. Maybe if you could pick up on the not so subtle sarcasm and wit that the LC’s have used on you, you might be able to have a good time debating your “points” here. As it is you are too stupid to even have any fun with.

    Tell ya what. Take Noam Chomsky’s cock out of yer mouth, and Lenin’s embalmed prick out of yer ass, pick up an AK and a shemagh, and join the hajis. At least then I could actually respect you for picking a side.

    FOAD

  142. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    That’s enough for now. Now, after you’ve finished these I’ll give you next years assignment.

    Trust me, pussy - you’re not gonna be around that long.

    You’ve just about worn out your welcome here.  I strongly  suggest you dial it down about five notches before The Management™ wields his trusty axe and kicks your swishy ass all the way to Okinawa.

    You know, where you can join your mommy in doing the geisha girl thing.

    On the contrary, it was less than a minute. You wish for quick responses, don’t talk to me about the delays.

    We’ll talk to you about whatever the fuck we feel like.  What do you think you’re  gonna do about it, hm?

  143. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon UNITED STATES

    I don’t know how you guys have the time to read all this. I just skimmed a bit, and I didn’t see much arguing on either side. Then again, I only read the end, you guys probably got tired of talking to a brick wall after a few tries…

    I wonder if it ever penetrated his meter-thick skullbones the possibility that maybe, just maybe, even IF all of his assertions actually were true (not bloody likely, but hey lets be generous when playing devil’s advocate) maybe just maybe that was the PAST!!! I mean get a grip, does the retarded moron maybe consider the possibility that maybe in the past Sadaam might have been the lesser of two evils and a pragmatic (read, intelligent) person might have said “OK we think this guy is pretty stinking rotten but he isn’t as bad as this guy who is completely rotten so we’ll tolerate him for now.”? And then when the situation changed our tolerance for a person who no longer seemed like such a minor evil changes? DUUUUUHHHHHH…

    And IF his assertion that we put Sadaam in power WAS actually true (again just playing devils advocate) that would make it ALL THE MORE imperative that we REMOVE him now! It’s called cleaning up your mistakes, dumbo. Much preferable to pissing in your panties and moaning about “oh woe is me we made a mistake now the sky is falling and the world is going to end.” etc etc etc.

    Sheesh. What a retard.

    RH

  144. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    C Guido Cabrone said:

    “Studying it for 20 years and still not learned a fucking thing.

    Minds are like parachutes, Tiberias. And his(?) is OBVIOUSLY not open.”

    Wow! That’s deep. And your comment demonstrates this how? At least I have a parachute. You’ve obviously jumped with an umbrella. A cheap one at that.kb
    ======================================================DJ Allyn, ITW said:

    “This is a problem for both sides. If a publication or source says something that you don’t agree with, then it is obviously a bad, or biased source and it is discarded.”

    I would agree to a certain extent, though I find that FAR more often those from the right do NOT even make an attempt, and that most on the left do. I, for instance, almost always leave a few of my sources, as well as asking the right for their sources. I’d say that in the past 4 years I’ve received a total of less than 5 sources, including publications, books, or anything else. Why on earth would any lefty not be interested in what the “other side”, or anyone for that matter, have to say as it’s exactly knowing this which has probably lead them to their positions in the first place. I learn every time I hear a right-winger say that the earth is flat and that their notion comes from listening to some backwater preacher who dances with snakes and talks in tongues. I can then pretty much assume that their sources aren’t really what I’d consider worthy or credible. This is exactly WHY I read the right-wing literature, so that I can learn from it. On the other hand, trying to get someone from the right to actually read and understand opposing thoughts is virtually impossible.kb

    “KB offered a few sources of his own, but I doubt anyone even bothered to get past the source itself before passing judgment. Maybe if you would take the time to actually read what the source said, then offer up rebuttal sources of your own?”

    Thank you. That would be rather refreshing for a change. Hey, I will say right now that every single sentence I’ve uttered could be 100% incorrect, or that all of my sources could be incorrect, like Chomsky, etc…but this needs to be demonstrated with a little more evidence than “His glasses are thick”, “You call those sources”, and the usual attempts at avoiding substance. There is a qualitative differece you see between someone making the charge that some site, reference, etc…are worthless based on having knowledge of those sites, references, etc…and THEN comparing them to the others, etc…and THEN coming to the conclusion that groups like Accuracy in Reporting are little more than National Enquirer rags, while groups like F.A.I.R. are probably a little more in touch with the real world. This is little to do with opinion at all. It has to do with making better arguments, based on better sources, etc…Here’s basically the difference:

    KB: F.A.I.R. reported x,y,z.

    Caesar: You call F.A.I.R. a source?

    KB: Yes. Ever read anything by them? Do you want to challenege their claim regarding x,y, and z?
    (Now, it rarely, almost never, gets past this point, but if it did this is pretty much what you’d see)

    Caesar: Sure. Well, for starters according to D…and according to F…..etc. This demonstrates that your sources were incorrect.

    (KB, after considering the evidence provided by Caesar comes to the conclusion that Caesar’s arguments, data, etc…seems better and more comprehensive and says…)

    KB: Gee, Caesar, I think you may have something here. Okay, I’ve now changed my position until the next piece of evidence comes along to demonstrate otherwise.

    Now for something like this to take place, first, Caesar would need to do something other than saying “Is that your source?” Like I said, it rarely gets past even this minimal step. Secondly, the notion that Caesar would actually read my sources, really learn them, and THEN make his criticisms are all but impossible, at least in my experience, which has not proven to be otherwise here either. Forget the actual data for the moment. I’m talking about how ANY of the data is obtained, used, changed, etc…by either side. I could really care less if this person considers themselves a lefty or a righty. I mean, if some guy who discovered that Geoge Washington was a flaming cross-dresser was from the right or the left would make zero difference to me. On the other hand, folks like Caesar would probably spend many sleepless nights trying to prove that the sources was a liar, had an agenda, was a “moonbat”, etc…all because he felt that this new knowledge was nothing more than an attack upon his country. He’d probably call the guy “anti-American”, say that he was hurt because Saddam was hanged, etc…and all the usual nonsense, even though he had voted for every Republican since the time the names were changed, that he was a member of the American Enterprise Institute, and that he had a Rush cell phone strap. He would STILL now be considered “the enemy”.kb

    “I have always maintained — and still do — that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and that the facts can be interpreted by whatever spin you want to use.”

    And that’s probably not a bad idea. However, in order to even come close to being able to recognize what the middle is, it helps to have some idea of what the supposed “other side” actually thinks, why, where they get their data, if it seems reasonably well put together, etc…What you DON’T do is to run away from the other side, thinking you know what all of their positions are when there is little or no evidence which would indicate that you do, and just start screaming and whining. Folks who do this are the exact folks who I’ve mentioned regarding pseudo-patriots and victims of propaganda. Their indoctrination disallows for there to even be a consideration of data from ANY opposing side. This IS actual evidence which supports the thesis I’ve made thus far. I have many concrete examples of this at work if anyone is interested. Let me know.kb
    ======================================================
    LC Mrs. M said:

    “Well it looks like he’s going to have to have ANOTHER 11 hours to come up with part 2. Takes time to surf the Moonbat Central Honor Roll Of Koolaid Blogs to get all his talking points in order so he can cut and paste again.”

    And yet another example of what someone flunking out of home-school would come up with; “moonbat”, “koolaid”, “cut and pasting”, blah, blah, blah…See? Nothing there. Not a challenge to anything. Not even a reason why cutting and pasting data is bad. Zero. Zilch. Hot air. Oh, and on that cutting and pasting thing, see, if one were to ask me of the definition of idiot was, and I jumped to the dictionary on my p.c., copied the definition, brought it back to them and pasted it, would you consider that this is a bad thing. I mean, with the exception that your name was the first word in the definition? I’d call it doing a favor for someone. But then again many of you folks from the right are so anti-knowledge and anti-education that this favor probably would be looked at with suspicion. You know that this paranoia isn’t healthy, don’t you? The communists really aren’t coming.kb

    “Now if we can just get the asswipe to use the DAMN BLOCK QUOTE.”

    Yep! She has her priorities straight.kb
    ======================================================

    “Mrs M, it is possible that KB can’t see the quicktag buttons. Not everyone has JavaScript enabled in their browsers. I posted an adendum to his latest comment explaining how to use the

    when quoting someone else’s comments.”

    Actually, I CAN see them. I just didn’t use them. I never have on any other blog and was unaware of how sensitive some folks are to style over content.kb
    ======================================================
    LC & IB Tiberius said:

    “I told you, block quotes are a tool of the evil Amerikkkan Kapitalistic military industrial complex who go around supporting dictators, oppressing the little people, and preventing the little people experiencing the joys of communism.”

    Yes, this sounds like something you might say. Personally, I wouldn’t, but that’s because I’m a lefty. Did you just add those little things above like the “kkk” insertion into American because you doubt that the U.S. has gone around supporting dictators, or hasn’t supported dictators who have suppressed their own people, or that the military industrial complex doesn’t exist, or that the left likes communism? Is this supposed to infer that you know better regarding some topic? Perhaps, but you have done nothing to demonstrate this so far. You HAVE, however, given further credence to support my thesis on how propaganda works. Gonna’ challenge anything before 2008, or just whine?kb

    “It’s right up there on his list of evils alongside logic, facts, reality, courage, honour, and probably personal hygiene.”

    And yet more empty charges with no evidence provided, no references, no examples, no, well, anything. The current method being employed by Caesar is the opposite of what it takes for a person to learn anything about anything. This is important when trying to keep the “rabble”, or “the great beast”, as an earlier president referred to the population of the country as, from NOT becoming involved in poolitics. The more they know, the more dangerous it is. Folks like Caesar unwittingly provide this service, i.e., demonstrating that they are also the primary victims of the propaganda. I mean, at least those in charge of, or working on, concoting the propaganda so as to influence thought know that they’re doing this. It’s just sad to see their workers doing this without the benefit of even getting paid for their services. I guess this is an example of American volunteerism at it’s finest.(For a great example of how this has worked in recent times, see how the charges of Iraqis putting babies of the floors of the hospitals was concocted with the help of one of the usual PR firms in charge of doing these type of things. Again, it takes about 1 minute to find this data, but I’ll bet a few folks above, rather than just doing the search themselves, will wait for me to do it for them, again. So, this time, YOU do it. I want to see if you can. But on a good and hopeful note, at least when Reagan tried to re-start a propaganda agency, enough of the American public upon finding out about it raised enough hell so that it was squashed, maybe.)kb
    ======================================================Light29ID said:

    “May I say kb welcome to the Empire. You have just experienced your initial intellectual wedgie from the LCs of His Majesty’s Realm.”

    I have? Well, I guess my T-back was thinner than I thought because I didn’t feel anything. On the contrary, there has been nothing even remotely resembling anything “intellectual” from anyone I’ve head thus far, other than the brief observation earlier which stated that both sides should probably consider the other sides sources before making arguments. Oh! I see! You’re of the sect which considers saying “moonbat” as being intellectual, or perhaps NOT responding to challenges as being intellectual.kb

    “Please, do stay, sit and enjoy the scenery as we prepare the Imperial Torture er, Game Room for our pleasure.”

    No problem. I wished that I felt at least a little intimidated, but, sorry, I just don’t at all. Sort of like I feel when the six year old comes over and wants to play one on one basketball.kb
    ======================================================

  145. Mope, Imperial Knucklehead Comment by Mope, Imperial Knucklehead UNITED STATES

    Crap. Maybe I wasn’t cogent. One more time…

    KB, can you cite one instance where you agreed with the United States’ foreign policy in the last one hundred years?

  146. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    ======================================================
    Comment by jaybear

    “kb sez, and I put in “blockquotes”

    And THIS is the important thing.kb

    “Here are some from an actual American who has an actual understanding about democracy, what it entails, what’s bad for the country, etc…No doubt that you’d consider this “anti=American” given your upside down worldview”(kb)

    “chomsky??? you’re referencing chomsky??? yeah, I’ll bet he knows all four verses to the Star Spangled Banner too..”

    Yeah, I’m sure he does, too. But what would that prove if he didn’t? I’ve heard him say in an interview that he gets up at about 6 a.m. every year with his family and grandchildren during one certain holiday, you can tell me if you know which one, where there is a fake battle between the British and, that there other group, of, well, British and assorted rabble (my words, not his). I’d bet a years salary that he knows triple what you do about your beloved, and his to mind you, country. But if you have any evidence to the contrary I’d be more than happy to see it. Even better, why don’t you do something that I have yet to meet one right-winger do and that is to write to him and ask him some questions which would demonstrate your thesis had any merit. None. Zero. Zilch.kb

    “As for the destruction of the “baby milk factories” during GW1, you must mean “factories” like this right?”

    “kb, if you’re so interested in pursuing facts, stay away from the conspiracy websites and buggers like noam chomsky m’kay???”

    See? Here it is again. Nothing. “Stay away from the conspiracy websites”. I do. That’s why I referred to Chomsky. He’s anti-conspiracy theorist and always has been. But of course give your thorough knowledge of his work (wink, wink)I’m sure you already knew this basic fact, yes? However, if you have any evidence, I’d be more than happy to look at it. By the way, what books of Chomsky’s have you read? Let’s start with a nice list.kb
    =====================================================
    LC & IB Tiberius said:

    “Why would the left be upset? Oh, you mean because they left are against murder? Yes, well, that’s the left for you. You know, thinking that killing is wrong and all.”(kb)

    “Are you even fucking trying anymore? If you are, that is pathetic. So the left hates killing does it?”

    Are you going to give me any evidence which would indicate that I’m not? And, yes, the left hates killing, as does most of the more civil right, as does most people on the people on the planet outside a few idiots which tend to try and make things worse because they believe that it’s “just human nature”, and other such disease-ridden and pathological notions. Is this an issue?kb

    “Then perhaps you can explain their support for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Pot, Ahmadinnerjacket, Arafat, Hamas, Hizbollah, and basically every other mass murderer in history.”

    The left supported Stalin? Really? No one I’m aware of did. And Mao? Who, outside a few Maoist wannabes living in Berkeley, supported Mao? I mean, true he ID do many great things for the country before making a few dumbass decisions, which, along with nature led to the deaths of many folks, a lot of which were simply thrown in as an example of what “communism leads to”. A most gross display of propaganda as well.
    Ooops. Forgot all that, didn’t you dipshit? And Castro? Why on earth would everyone NOT have supported him from the start? This is the real question. He stood up to a dictatorial criminal who was screwing the population, and who no one liked, outside a few other criminals and a few big U.S. businesses, and kicked the guys sorry ass out, with the support of the vast majority of the population. I thought that having lived in the U.S. you would be one to appreciate democracy and try and support it, instead of supporting the impending terror to which Cuba has been subjected to from then till today. He even approached the U.S. to which the U.S. responded by trying to kill him several times, blowing up planes, etc…Oh, and just to put things in perspective, Castro, if looked at objectively, would be considered almost a Saint compared to the murdering dictators the U.S. openly, as well as secretly, supported in the same neck of the woods. Not even close to the same crimes. Would you care for the list, again? Here:

    Banzer, Colonel Hugo —Bolivia
    Batista, Fulgencio —Cuba
    Branco, General Humberto —Brazil
    Cedras, Raoul —Haiti
    Cerezo, Vinicio —Guatemala
    Cordova, Roberto Suazo —Honduras
    Christiani, Alfredo —El Salvador
    Duvalier, Francois —Haiti
    Duvalier, Jean Claude—Haiti
    Martinez, Maximiliano Hernandez —El Salvador
    Noriega, General Manuel —Panama
    Pinochet, General Augusto —Chile
    Montt, General Efrain Rios —Guatemala
    Somoza, Anastasio Jr. —Nicaragua
    Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. —Nicaragua
    Stroessner, Alfredo —Paraguay
    Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas —Dominican Republic
    Videla, General Jorge Rafael —Argentina
    http://www.betterworldlinks.org/book73e.htm

    I’d pretty much have to say that Castro has done nothing even remotely coparable to most of these folks on sheer number killed. Not even close.

    And Pol Pot? The U.S. fought to get him a seat at the U.N. I can’t believe you’re unaware of things even this basic:
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/UncleSam_PolPot.html
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/US_PolPot.html
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Global_Secrets_Lies/Friends_PolPot.html
    http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/hermansept97.htm
    https://zmag.org/ZMag/articles/hermanjune98.htm

    Arafat? Mass murderer? Evidence. And Hamas, or any of the other groups fighting against Israels illiegal occupation for years? The perhaps you can show the numbers killed by Israerl while you’re looking for these, yes?

    You’re funny. You’re so indoctrinated that if God herself came down to earth right now and said you were wrong about everything you’ve just asserted, you wouldn’t believe her, or charge her with killing the real god because she was a communist, or something else equally as intelligent.kb
    ======================================================
    BC Imperial Torturer said:

    “Jeezus, man. Can you even begin to pull your head out of your ass and actually try to come back from the Far Side of Stoopid™? Your obfuscation of the facts with rambling screeds doesn’t even begin to address the factual rebuttals of the fallacies of your supposed “arguments“.

    Notice how he has STILL not challenged anything here. He’s simply said that I was wrong. I can play that game, too, watch: “Uhhh..No, I’m right!” There! That was easy. I like the way you right-wing folks play. It’s much easier. Now, I can just sit back, not read, not try and prove anything, make all the outlandish comments I want knowing I’ll never have to provide any evidence for any of them, and simply say, with my finger about two knuckles up my nose, “Uhhh….You’re wrong…and…and…you’re a moonbat!” Maybe I’ll write a pseudo-patriotic right-wing blather fest and get rich in about an hour, twice the time it will take me to write it.kb

    “Answer just ONE question straight-up, you fuckin’ retard: “Is it A Good Thing™ that Saddam is finally gone and the people of Iraq have at least the chance of bettering their futures according to their own hard work and self-determination?”

    I don’t really think Saddam being gone makes much difference, if by gone you mean dead. The Iraqi people would have had a far better chance 20 years ago before the U.S. helping into power and supported him before, during, and after his worst crimes. Are you the least embarrassed that someone who is supposedly retarded would be aware of such a basic fact and you aren’t? If I’m retarded, what does that make you, and retarded retarted? You, nor the U.S. in particular, have any reason whatsoever to act as if you’ve somehow liberated Iraq and done them a favor. You helped create the monster in the first place, hypocrite. Do we cheer and put praises upon mafia dons when they whack one of their own simply because the guy got out of line? Hardly. We try and prove that not only did the don whack the criminal underlying, which is also a crime regardless of his own criminality, but that the don supported the underlying when he whacked 35 other people before. The don is responsibily and gets into trouble, as he should, for his participation in criminality. You seem to think he should be lauded. I thought you hypocrite right-winger were the “tough on crime” folks. Well, where they hell are you now? I know, I know, it’s only crimes when other people do it, not when we do it. Yes, this is the way most criminals think.kb

    “It’s a simple question that requires only a one word answer: “Yes” or “No”. C’mon, you know you can do it for us, so that even us lowly, knuckle-dragging ReichWingers™ can understand.”

    No one from the left has ever wanted Saddam in power, you have. And there were MANY ways to remove Saddam without our own contribution to killing hundreds of thousands in the process. The easiest way would have been not to support him in the first place. THIS is the REAL preventive medicine. Secondly, after having supported him before, during, and after his worst crimes, someone may have recommended that it probablty wasn’t such a good idea. Wait! That was posed, but the U.S. said that no, we want him to stay in power. So, when he did his first real crime, in the eyes of the indoctrinated, by invading Kuwait, he became a monster overnight. Anyway, I’ve already answered this question about 20 times now. Read for god’s sake. By the way, most of the population today in Iraq felt things were better even with him in power. Last I heard the majority of Iraqis are living in far more fear now than when Saddam was in power. (p.s. Just for your little brain, this wasn’t an apologetic for him either)kb

    “Someone else can flash the light into this comatose hippie’s eyes to see if his pupils eventually dilate, but I’m done wasting my electrons on someone who, by his “sources“, believes everything posted and linked to from here.”

    Given that you seem to have no electrons, or at least you have yet to demonstrate that you do, I don’t really think you need to worry that much. Just sit there and rub your little piece of velvet and keep on drinking from the village idiots cup. I mean, if you haven’t drunk it all already.(Notice how he STILL challenges nothing. All he does is to whine about the sources. And why should I NOT believe them, especially given all of the evidence they provide? You have done nothing to prove them incorrect, or change my mind, other than call me moonbat, and make wittiless little comments about neurons. And as of this sentence I’m writing now you have NOT produced ONE source of your own. Slight oversight, yes? I mean, especially since you keep talking like you’re big on sources or something. Perhaps you’re sources are just divinely inspired? Do you receive your answers and knowledge in a vision? Did Warren Jeffries send one of his under-aged wives to give you a message? Where?kb

    “BTW, Dave, anytime someone links to “Common Dreams” as a source, they’re automatically dismissed as a bib-wearing lunatic, in my book. That’d be like one of us using The Weekly World News as a “source“.”

    BTW, Dave, anytime someone can’t respond to a simple challenge because they can’t read anything other than the fairy tales that they get from…uhh…well…hmm….I’m not really sure where because they never tell us this, they should be dismmissed as an illiterate, probably ate his own bib, coward.kb
    ======================================================
    Cheapshot911 said:

    “Sez da troll:

    Who are you talking about?”

    So I ask again, who are you talking about?kb

    “Doesn’t take much to get ‘em confused.”

    Doesn’t take much for the left to get confused from the ramblings of the right? Yes, that’s probably somewhat accurate. I mean, look at the material we have to deal with; no sources, no references, name-calling, basically, nothing. Now, the reason that it’s confusing isn’t so much that they’re not saying anything, that’s obvious. It’s more because they “think” they are. THAT’S the confusing part. Example:

    kb: The U.S. supported Saddam before, during, and after his worst crimes.

    Caesar: Moonbat! Uhh…jdbcwuebhcouduncdid! And for your sources, well, ysxguwvxutys. There! Not only that, but iwgxcweyxbw!

    Imperialist: Yeah, Caesar! I understood everything you just said. I agree 100%.

    kb: But he didn’t say anything. He didn’t demonstrate anything. He didn’t give and sources, quotes, references…nothing.

    Imperialist: You moron! Can’t you read?

    The End

    “I see that the notion of post hoc ergo propter hoc retains higher relevance to the troll than percieving the full scope of the historicas situation/strategies that actually occured.”

    Sorry, but perhaps you aren’t aware of this logical notion then. In logic this is the fallacy of thinking that since X followed W that it was therefore the result of W. Nothing I have said falls into this fallacy. Nice try. There is also a think in logic called deduction, cause and effect, and many other such notions. These say that when X does Y, and Y does Z as a result, X caused Z to happen. The other fallacy is primarily used by folks to try and weasel out of the cause/effect relationships by trying to make the connections dubious. This is one of the basic notions from which most apologetics are usually made. Do I smell some coming? I mean, Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Reagan, or any other tyrant could have done this quite easily, and did. Usually they had others who were versed in such things to do it for them. Their usually referred to as government historians, or more recently “think tanks”, something.kb

    “Without lying (yes, deception by omission is a LIE) the conclusions go unsupported and must be repeated to achieve any penetration.”

    Couldn’t agree more. That’s why I’ve referred to the sources I have and have made the challenges I have, most of which are precisely pointing out the things which have been left out and lied about, such as U.S. support for Saddam before, during, and after his worst crimes. Hey, I’m all for getting this basic information out. That’ all I’ve been doing here.”kb

    “Copy and pasting the same scrip across other blog pages smells spammish.”

    Then get your nose fixed. It’s called saying the same thing in more than one place. I’ve said “the” on most every blog I’ve ever written on, too. Wanna’ whine about that? If I have data relevant to the topic which is under discussion, and the topic happens to be on more than one blog, is there some sort of blog rule which says you can’t use or refer to the same sources? This is little more than childish babble on your part. I hope you have something more down below. But what smells funny to me is that someone may be jumping around looking for someone who has used the same sources or references more than a few times to express the same points related to the same topics as if this were bad somehow. Perhaps your time could be better spent trying to make an argument rather than searching to see how many times I’ve left a the same link and usually not getting a response as I haven’t here. Hey, if you guys would read every once in a while perhaps I wouldn’t have to keep repeating myself.kb

    “Must not have had any upbringin’ that forced interface with reality,, 20 years without visible signs of intellectual capability, strategic cognition, hell, just showin’ up on this page shows us this troll is freakin’ lost.”

    Still nothing. Zero. Zilch. See, one of the the differences between you folks from the right and I is that I have been demonstrating my assertions as valid the entire time on the this blog thus far, with your unwitting help and cooperation. You’ve just done it again here by making the comment you have and not saying anything at all. It’s really bad when you have your make-believe adversary trying to help you to make better arguemnts against him because he feels a little sorry for you, and you STILL don’t do it.”


    They won’t consider anything you have to show, ‘get deeper conversation from a mynah bird.
    To his credit, the troll is tangental and verbose.”

    Oooo…”tangential” and “verbose”. Now we have a guy with a slighty bigger vocabulary not saying anything. For those of you lower order rightwingers I’ll do a translation for you: tangental and verbose = moonbat. There! Do you understand? Same content so don’t be intimidated becuase he listened to a Teaching Company lecture, once.kb
    ======================================================
    LC & IB Tiberius said:

    “How come this cock keeps posting his bullshit and yet my shit keeps getting caught by the spam filter?”

    Perhaps the spam filter has been updated and grown a brain which now enables it to recognize real spam and easily recognizes most of your wothless comments, correctly, as just that, spam. Not only that, rotton and moldy spam.kb
    ======================================================
    BC Imperial Torturer said to Dave:

    “Actually, my boss does a lot of writing for Common Dreams.”

    “‘Nuff sed, Dave.

    And again my point has been reconfirmed. Dave admits that his boss writes some things for Common Dreams and instantly this explains Dave. I guess Dave will now be the enemy, too huh? I mean, come on, “Common Dreams”? “What a horrible notion that is. It almost sounds communistic to me, of course. You know, like uhh…I have a dream….and uhh…like you have a dream…and like..uhh…they’re sort of the same…and we can relate to each other and and maybe decide together, also bad, that war is bad, slavery is bad, destroying the environment is bad, and that education is bad, and that…well…you know…all of those things which are actually good, but which are bad because…uhh…well…I’m not really sure but they are? Yes, this is really bad.kb
    ======================================================
    Cheapshot911(Actually ‘Shooting Blanks’ is his real name)said:

    “Yep, DJ, that’s the genre
    I read around for few,, saw lots of stuff that bugged them, but not a hint of feasible stategy, other than going after folks that go after terr’s.”

    Then this proves that you don’t read anything from the left. Most every article I read says MANY things about how to deal with terrorism, the first and foremost being NOT to participate in it in the first place. And there is an important inference in your statement. That is that YOU, or the U.S. government for that matter, are the ones to decide what constitues terrorism. And given the record of the U.S. sponsoring it far and wide I don’t really think they’re probably the best suited to decide what it consists of. It shouldn’t be forgotton, if it was ever known in the first place, that the U.S regarded the ANC as terrorists when fighting against our allys, the white rascist apartheid government. Mandela, Biko, etc..were considered the terrorists then. Well, were they? Was it wrong for them to fight against the government? Was it right for the U.S. to keep supporting the rascist government LONG after it was know what they’d been up to for years? Does the U.S. bare no responsibility for this support either? In fact, I don’t recall a single example of someone from the right admitting that the U.S. has ever done anything wrong in it’s entire history. In psychoology there are special names for people who think they had never done anything wrong, as well as terms for the attempts to explain away their bad behavior once it has been brought to their attention.kb
    ======================================================
    CiSSnarl5.7 said(part 1):

    “This is a problem for both sides. If a publication or source says something that you don’t agree with, then it is obviously a bad, or biased source and it is discarded.(dj)”

    “DJ, I’ll agree in part to this, but one huge difference in my view is this: The left is far more adamant about decrying sources then the right.”

    I would say two things to this. One is that perhaps it’s because the right rarely give any. It’s hard to decry them if they’re nowhere to be found, as I’ve demonstrtaed, with their assistance, on this very post. Secondly, on the rare occasions that they DO give the left any references, or where they get their information from, it most often IS qualitatively worse, which, too, is usually easily demonstrated. Does any serious literate person believe that the data compiled and presented by someone like Chomsky is comparable to that put together by Ann Coulter? Sorry, but there IS a qualitative difference.kb

    “There’s no doubt that a majority of the left are now “baby boomers” who have raised thier children in little cookie cutter images of themselves.”

    As opposed to what? Beaver Cleaver? Fortunately, there are enough folks from the sixties still around to hopefully have even more lasting affect over the young. Ahhh…The 60’s. Probably one of the gretest periods of modern American history, if not it’s entire history. Hence why it’s so despised by much of the right who insist on conformity, anti-democracy, blind pseudo-patriotism, and any other number of such related diseases.kb

    “These so called Boomers were the flower children of the 60’s and early 70’s.”

    This comment alone shows how little this chap knows about the time period. The flower children were a small part of the entire left. And regardless of some of their reckless behavior, itself probably occuring in response to the vile hypocrisy and nonsense they saw going on before them, were still able to affect great change for the better. The Civil rights movements, women’s rights, minority rights, environmentalism, etc…yes, all bad in the eyes of the depraved right. What more of an example could one ask for as evidence of a bad generation. Virtually every positive stride made in the cultural advancement of the U.S. occurred during this time, and NOT with the assistance of the right. On the contrary, most of the time it was in spite of the right, who weren’t much interested in these topics, in fact, mostly hostile to them, as can be seen in this commenters ramblings.kb

    “You can clearly see thier influence on the younger generation & thier children, one only needs to look at the fascination of todays youth with such pop culture icons as Bob Marley , Che, looser and in some cases non exsistant moral compasses, even right down to the resurgence of tie-die clothing apparel.”

    Sorry, Dude, but these are the intelligent offspring. The biggest problem with the youth today is a moving away from this and back to the apathy which the original movement sprang from in the first place. I’m glad to hear that some of the youth are wearing Bob Marley shirts, as well as any freedom fighter shirts, like Che. This shows a cultural advancement as well. Were they wearing Pat Boone and Hitler shirts I’d be a little more concerned.kb

    “Back then in the flower children age you really only had one source of news, the MSM, unlike today where there are multiple information outlets such as talk radio, the internet, cable news network news..etc.”

    And a great part of the reason many started breaking out was precisely because they started challenging the MSM, which was even more of a mouthpiece for the state than it is today. I mean, it STILL pretty much performs it’s function of not informing the public to much of anything, but here and there some things slip through. It took the anti-war movements of the 60’s 6 years into the war to gather momentum before the protests began. With Iraq they began before the war started, as Chomsky, Zinn, and others correctly note. THIS shows an improvement. Of course the right would consider it an improvement to get people back to where they were unaware that there was even a war going on until 6 years after it had been going on. Yes, we most definitely have a different idea of what progress means. (To be continued…..)kb

  147. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    That’s why I referred to Chomsky. He’s anti-conspiracy theorist and always has been

    Ahhhh, now this is just to funny for words… :lol_wp:

    Thanks KB, I needed the laugh…

    Chomsky has ALWAYS been long on conspiracy and short on substance… This is what happens when political correctness of MIT trumps real world accomplishments…

    Apparently your ability to read and comprehend hasn’t gone past fourth grade level…

    Still it seems that you have yet to comprehend what the the words, “credible sources” means….

    Your idiotic comment: “Does any serious literate person believe that the data compiled and presented by someone like Chomsky is comparable to that put together by Ann Coulter? Sorry, but there IS a qualitative difference.kb” is easily fisked since Ms. Coulter has extensive notes that can be checked for validity of what she says where as Chomsky is apparently expecting the libtard audience he plays to to accept his words out of hand…

  148. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    CiSSnarl5.7 said(part 2):

    “Having said that the left has an instinctive negative knee jerk reaction to anything pro war, or pro government and it is telling in the anti-war movement inside the country’s major news sources and across university campuses nation wide.”

    I don’t consider being anti-war as the least bit kneejerk. What IS kneejerk, on the other hand, is jumping for the first gun you see and start shooting anything that moves based on easily demonstrated lies, and without any forethought, as is easily demonstrated with what’s been happening in Iraq since before day one. War is supposed to be the absolute last resort for settling conflict. War is a sign of failure, not of anything to be proud of. And this goes for any country. ANd most of the MSM, being major corporations themselves are anything BUT hostile to the war. I mean, you have shows called “This Week at War”, like it’s a game show or something. I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone from the left on TV more than a few times who had a chance to express the thought of most of the left, and not only that, most of the country. What you have are three supposed experts like Jeff Greenfield, and the few other talking heads who have no excpertease at all as far as I’m aware telling people what’s happening in the world. How often do we see folks with actual knowledge like Charles Glass, Robert Fist, etc…on the tube. These guys should be on every day. Instead they’re on for 30 seconds at 3 a.m. Anyway, it’s well known that more conservatives have their pundits on the tube than does the left, isn’t it? Read here. And no whining about the source. Just read and answer:
    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2447

    “They’ve never grown out of that knee jerk reaction.”

    Being anti-war isn’t something to grow out of, it’s something to grow into, like intelligence. When children are young and someone does something they perceive as wrong, they lash out in a violent physical manner. Eventually, hopefully, they grow out of this stage. Most folks who are interested in war are simply those who haven’t grown out of it most of the time.kb

    “When we invaded Iraq it was “we support the troops but not the war” but now even that smoke screen has cleared.”

    What smokescreen? No one from the left who I’m aware of has ever been against any troops from any war outside a few idiots from the left who took their anger out on the some of the returning troop coming home from the slaughter instead of asking for the real criminals in the war to be handed a fair sentence for war crimes. The troops have almost nothing to do with any of this at all, though one could make an argument that they DO consiously choose to allow themselves to be used in certain acts which they may not be fully aware of, and which, if are found to be criminal acts, should be held accountable as well as the ones directing the crimes. Most troops can probably legitimately argue plausible deniability as they’re just following orders from above. On the other hand, those giving the orders should have a little more accountability. Are they guilty of shooting people, or not? If they shoot people for reasons which they’re not entirely aware of, does this
    excuse them or not? If they DO know why they’re killing people, and the reasons are actually correct and known, is this somehow different? These are questions to debate. I’m game.kb

    “Secondly, The left refuses to acknowledge anything positive of the Iraq situation, although there is a well established history begining to develop proving that aside from the insurgent attacks and Sunni muslim strife being propagated heavily there ARE positive developments inside Iraq.”

    There were positive developments being made in Hitler’s Germany, too, one could argu. So, let’s look at all of these positive developments, as if this excuses the illegality of the war somehow.kb

    “The left 100% denies this…show me one source in the Nation Moveon etc that has put ONE positive message out on the situation in Iraq.”

    Why on earth would they? How many leftist magazines or papers in Germany were putting positive spins on what the Nazis were doing? I’d have to say few, hopefully. Grow up. Every mass murdering dictator throughout history can point to what they believe positive developments occurred under their rein, and sometimes some of the things actually happened. This hardly excuses their criminality. Simply because Ted Bundy gave money to the Girls Scouts and mowed his elderly neighbor lady’s lawn, I mean, when he wasn’t supporting the Republican party, which he was, hardly excuses his crimes.kb

    “fact is you probably can’t.”

    In fact, you probably could, but I would hope they wouldn’t waste their time and have enough moral stature not to start constructing apologetics for state crimes, especially international war crimes, and even more so when it’s their country which is carrying them out. This is all the more reason to be critical of the state. I mean, assuming that you care about your country.kb

    “Contrast that with websites such as Townhall.com..who like Fox news and Susan Estrich and even here on the Rott allow an opposing view point.”

    Huh? The vast majority of the media doesn’t allow opposing points of view at all. They’re most all slanted toward making apologetics for U.S. actions, as usual. Here’s a good example from a while back about just how “liberal” the media is. Let’s look at a study of the New York Times. Is THIS the liberal media you speak of?:

    “Let me gives on more example of the powerful propaganda system at work in the U.S.–the congressional vote on contra aid in March 1986. For three months prior to the vote, the administration was heating up the political atmosphere, trying to reverse the congressional restrictions on aid to the terrorist army that’s attacking Nicaragua. I was interested in how the media was going to respond to the administration campaign for the contras. So I studied two national newspapers, the Washington Post and the New York Times. In January, February, and March, I went through every one of their editorials, opinion pieces, and the columns written by their own columnists. There were 85 pieces. Of these, all were anti-Sandinista. On that issue, no discussion was tolerable.”
    http://www.zpub.com/un/chomsky.html

    Here’s a little more.
    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199005–.htm

    “Case in point the Kurds released a video actually thanking the U.S. for thier role in the liberation of Iraq. Not a peep from the left about this and unless you’re up at the wee hours of the morning..chances are you wont see it. Explain again the mantra there is no bias in the media?”

    Sure there is bias. And, as already mentioned, is most often favorable to the government. I have yet to see one report in the “liberal media” of U.S. support before, during, and after Saddam gassed the Kurds. Where is it? And this isn’t even a controversial or debateable fact. It’s just a simple fact. Now, are you meaning to tell me that there are NO Kurds well aware of this fact, and that they’re just all cheering their liberators? Of course there are. What’s funny is your ability to allow yourself to be willing duped by propaganda which most third-graders could constuct. There were a few folks I recall cheering Hitler when he came rollin into town, too. Shall we watch the videos of them and conclude that he was therefore their noble liberator? I would hope that the media were intelligent enough not to allow themselves to be used by the government to spread propaganda. And you are probably one of the folks who actually think having “embedded” journalists is a sign of how free the press is. This is the antithesis of what the press ought to be doing in a free country. In Soviet Russia or Hitler’s Germany I could understand. This is overt and blatent propaganda and the indoctrinated still se it as being too liberal. THIS shows how fanatically to the right they are. Blatent and overt state propaganda isn’t even enough. Now this is scary.kb

    “Another point is the term “Iraq War” is seriously dated yet it is continued to be allowed airtime and be used by both sides across the political landscape…why is this?”

    Actually, the term is absurd, and has been from the beginning. A war usually consists of at least two countries with armies battling each other. Iraq had none. They had been starved by sanctions for years which killed hundreds of thousands. Had most all of their weapons taken away by the quite effective inspection teams before they were stiffled so as to give the pretext for invasion a better shot. I mean, if you’re going to lie and say it’s because they have WMD you’d better make sure that there are some actually there when you invade. Couldn’t even pull this one off. What’s great though from a propaganda point of view, is that it didn’t even matter. The indoctrinated are so thoroughly indoctrinated that they just changed their reasoning overnight and the sheep all just bent over and said “Awwww”.kb

    “Bush declared an end to hostilites on that Aircraft carrier and the Left screamed bloody hell that it was publicity stunt, and raised the roof.”

    It was nothing but.kb

    “But they now insist on calling it a war, which is it? You can’t have it both ways, either your damning the man for declaring a cease of hostilites or your damning him for an “illegal war”..does anyone else see the contradiction here?”

    Well, whether or not one wishes to call it a war is simply a matter of definition and is relatively unimportant. I’d say that it was more like the gang wars happening in the U.S. every year. Perhaps the numbers of deaths in the U.S. from gangs, just “ordinary people” shooting each other every day, etc… is perhaps the same as the number of civilian deaths in Iraq at this time related to the conflict. Last I heard there were about 16,000 gang related deaths per year in the U.S. and that about the same nummer of civilians had been killed since the U.S. invasion, according to the lowest estimates I could find. Over 100,000 civilians killed according to Les Roberts and Gilbert M. Burnham of the Center for International Emergency, Disaster and Refugee Studies at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore; Richard Garfield of Columbia University in New York; and Riyadh Lafta and Jamal Kudhairi of Baghdad’s Al-Mustansiriya University College of Medicine which consider this to be a conservative number because “because they excluded deaths in Fallujah, a city west of Baghdad that has been the scene of particularly intense fighting and has accounted for a disproportionately large number of deaths in the survey.”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

    “And in the end why is it that none on either side except maybe a few die hard conservative types will put the ongoing issues in Iraq in the proper context, and place the blame squarley on the forces responsible for it…the facsit muslim elements that cause it, and Iran.”

    Perhaps because that isn’t where the blame should lie. Once again you are attempting to make everyone else responsible other than yourself. You charlatans are pathetic and sad. I don’t recall much killing between this factions within Iraq before the U.S. invasion. But I’m sure this would have had nothing to do with it.kb

    “Why is it still almost three years after the offical cease of hostility by the commander in chief it’s still all Bush’s fault or America’s fault…”

    You mean you believe the fault should change simply due to the amount of time it has dragged out. I would assume that you’re not the type who would think that three years after Ted Bundy had committed his crimes that you would be whining about why he’s still getting all the blame, yes?kb

    “yes we invaded, yes we missed the WMD, but we also tried to do something positive for a country that went from one of the most advanced in the region and in 15 years ended up being worse off then any of it’s neighbors by far.”

    It declined precisely because of the U.S. war against it. And who do you think you are that you have any right at all to be doing anything there? Do they have a right to be doing whatever they want to make America better? I mean, if they looked at the 16,000 gang related deaths by guns each year, more than 20,ooo if you count the other killings with guns, and decided that they could make America better by invading and taking the folks guns away would it be okay with you? Personally, I could probably think of a few good arguements for such an invasion if this were the goal. However, I don’t really think it’s probably the best way to deal with OUR problems, do you? What’s telling here is your blatent imperialist thinking and assumptions. You assume a priori that you have some sort of right to be there, as if this is a given. This is a classic example of one the the typical assumptions of imperialist thought, that you just have some right to be there, wherever you are. Do other folks have this right, too?kb

    “Why then wont the left and Dems at least give that much credit? Why do people like KB automatically veer off on something like “we gave him a billion dollars the day before he invaded Iraq” but wont admit the fact the man and his government were a menace to not only Kuwait but Iran and the entire region as well?”

    Frankly, because it’s not true. He’d been a menace before, during, and after the U.S. supported him. Stating a simple fact that Bush I gave him another billion dollars isn’t “veering off” at all. It’s the exact opposite of “veering off”. Veering off is ignoring the basic facts and what they mean. This is incredible. We have someone here openly declaring that facts should be avoided and steered clear of. Oh, by the way, after the first Gulf War no one in the surrounding region was afraid of Saddam at all, not that they were much before this.kb

    “FACT..Saddamn had the 4th largest army in the WORLD…and he was willing to use it to achive his goals as history has now proven beyond any reasonable doubt…why can’t the left acknowledge that?”

    He did? Where were they? They weren’t anywhere to be found when the U.S. went into save their anti-Democratic friends in Kuwait(actually a part of Iraq anyway if you want the truth), which they liberated in a matter of a few days. Yes, they were a force to be feared. Unfortunately, most of their force had been used before, during, and after the U.S. and supported them, by far that is. North Korea has a one million man army. I don’t really know of anyone that afraid of them, though they should probably be feared much more, even though they’ve never shown any designs to do anything outside their closed borders which was the least bit threatening. Anyway, at least most of the population in the U.S. feels that overt propaganda isn’t a good idea. You know, the kind you don’t know you’re swallowing even when it’s thick enough to choke a sperm whale.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1227/dailyUpdate.html

    Mention the mass graves they are still finding, I think I saw an estimate of 180,000 people gone under the Sdaam regime and you get called a liar it is “Bush propaganda” The facts are what they are..why can’t the left at least acknowledge them?”

    You are confused you poor thing. These mass graves were accumulating primarily before, especially during, and after the support of the U.S.kb

  149. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    CiSSnarl5.7 said(part 3):

    “Lets look at the “war for oil” mantra a litte while we’re at it.”

    This is a mantra for one simple reason. It happens to be one of the most basic facts of this entire issue. To pretend that there is ANY other reason is simply to have your hear buried in the sand, or someplace worse. Non-issue. Oil is the only reason we’re anywhere near that part of the world.kb

    “Saddam could have shut down the Arabian gulf rather easily as demonstrated in the destruction of Kuwaits oil infrastructure.”

    Why would he have done that, he was on the U.S. payroll. And he set fire to a few oil wells. Yes? Perhaps the reason he did was because the U.S. had no clue that one of their favorite killers was about to do anything and simply weren’t prepared. I mean, given the nonveering off fact that he was given a billion dollars the day before the invasion I’d say it was a pretty good indication that the U.S. wasn’t prepared to do anything, not that they have any right to anyway. Just more evidence of how pathetic intelligence was.kb

    “It doesn’t take much to damage millions of dollars of Oil processing equipment as evidenced by the ongoing problems with Iraq’s oil industry, It would take years to fix the damages and untold trillions of dollars not to mention the impact to the environment here…But it’s always a “US War for oil” so let me get this straight …the U.S. is the only country on the face of the planet that uses Arabian gulf oil?”

    No, but what does that have to do with anything? This doesn’t excuse the illegality of the invasion at all. And there are MANY more benefits to ruining the country. We give big contracts to fellows like Cheney’s friends to come in and repair it. We get a discount on the oil which we now indirectly control, if not outright control. We have a U.S. presence there which will prpbaby stay forever, as this is one of the main benefits. There are MANY reasons why we’re there, but they all are related to oil. Period. Non-issue.kb

    “Hmmm I wonder then… where does France, Germany, Japan, Denmark, Sweden, Russia, Korea, Australia, Italy, Spain, China, etc all get thier oil?”

    Irrelevant.kb

    “By protecting our interest in the region”

    Who gives a rat’s ass about what you think your interest is in the region? Do other countries have the right to set up shop in the U.S. for their interests? Or even spead their versions of democracy, whatever they may be, some of them no doubt being able to teach the U.S. a thing or two? If not, why not?kb

    “and promoting a democratic Iraq are we not also helping the very same countries so harshly criticizing us by keeping the oil markets from going ballistic?”

    And “markets” are the important things, huh? “Who cares if a few hundred thousand ragheads are killed in the process. I want me cheap oil so that I can drive my Hummer!” Besides, the U.S. has a long history of supporting folks who were anything BUT democratic. This was even recognized by A Reagan insider. Here, perhaps this will put a crack in your indoctrinated cataracts:

    “The author is Thomas Carothers, who combines scholarship with an “insider’s perspective,” having worked on “democracy enhancement” programs in Reagan’s State Department. Carothers regards Washington’s “impulse to promote democracy” as “sincere,” but largely a failure. Furthermore, the failure was systematic: where Washington’s influence was least, in South America, there was real progress towards democracy, which the Reagan administration generally opposed, later taking credit for it when the process proved irresistible. Where Washington’s influence was greatest, progress was least, and where it occurred, the U.S. role was marginal or negative. His general conclusion is that the U.S. sought to maintain “the basic order of…quite undemocratic societies” and to avoid “populist-based change,” “inevitably [seeking] only limited, top-down forms of democratic change that did not risk upsetting the traditional structures of power with which the United States has long been allied.”
    http://www.zmag.org/Zmag/articles/chomskysept97.htm

    “Why is there NO acknowledgement of over all when looked at thru a wider lens the U.S actions in the ME are actually helping other countries as well? Why cant the left see that if Oil hits 100 dollars a barrel (or higher) because of some madman like Saddamn or Iran’s president shutting down the gulf, not only does America suffer ..but fledging democracies, and emerging socites in the third world (both pet causes of the left) are going to fail hard in short order?”

    Uhh…because it doesn’t usually happen that way. I’ve never seen anyone work so hard at trying to make excuses for criminal negligence, criminality, and failure on many levels. This IS iperialist apologetics. “Why can’t they just see how good we are for them, how much we really care about them, how much we wantthier oil for ours……Oops! Scratch that last part. We just want them to be democratic like us. THIS is what we care about (que: violins)kb

    “Make no doubt the left is screaming loud and hard for us to withdrawl…”

    You damn right. Then we can start on the war crimes tribunals.kb

    “and if we do Iraq is going to implode, what will be the “talking points” for the left then..how it was America’s fault because we pulled out too soon…??”

    Ues, this may happen if the U.S. pulls out from it’s illegal invasion, NOT liberation. And, yes, the “implosion” WILL be directly a result of the U.S. having invaded in the first place. And if anyone says that the U.S. should have stayed longer, they are no leftist friend of mine. Anyway, this is a strategy as old as history, too. Invade somewhere, commit the troops, claim that it will be worse if we pull out, and in some cases this may actually happen, and then use this is the pretext for staying indefinitely. I think now the only reason we’re there is that Bush is waiting for some convenient moment to oull out himself, but be able to save some face, especially now that even the right is waking up from their usual slumber.kb

    “The left pulls this chamelon play endlessly, not to mention the fact many of the lefts “sources” are so over the top and willing to twist the facts to fit thier agenda…(the lebanon conflict anyone?)”

    Evidence anyone?kb

    “in my view, it’s no wonder those of us on the right view anything used to support a liberal’s stance is viewed with mistrust.”

    Precisely. And this is what good indoctrinated puppets are supposed to think and see. It&’s so predictable that if we all claimed today that we thought that Bush should stay forever, increase the troops by 500%, give as many contracts to Haliburton as possible, etc…you VOP’s (Victims of propaganda) would immediately jump to the other side. If the left were really smart this is what they’d do, if for no other reason than to get you to vote for the right guy on election day. I mean, you’ll never know you’ve done it until it’s too late.kb

    END

  150. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    juandos said:

    “That’s why I referred to Chomsky. He’s anti-conspiracy theorist and always has been(kb)

    “Ahhhh, now this is just to funny for words… Thanks KB, I needed the laugh…
    Chomsky has ALWAYS been long on conspiracy and short on substance… This is what happens when political correctness of MIT trumps real world accomplishments…”

    Really? That’s odd. As I’ve already mentioned, I’ve read all of his books, some more than once, listened to hundreds of hours of lectgures, seen many lectures, corresponded with him, and I’ve never seen anything remotely close to resembling a conspiracy theory. On the contrary, he has written lots of anti-conspiracy theory stuff, but I guess that’s just part of the conspiracy, too, huh. Sorry, but I know his work, and you don’t, and if you’d like my to prove it quite easily just make a challenge. Here, start trying to educate yourself.
    http://blog.zmag.org/node/2779
    http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/articles/oldalbert19.htm

    “Apparently your ability to read and comprehend hasn’t gone past fourth grade level…”

    Because I know his work and you don’t. Yes, this is surely the logic of a right-winger. Here, I’ll give you a few of the basics: He isn’t anti-American nor has ever inferred such. He isn’t anti-Semitic, nor has ever inferred such. He isn’t a Pol Pot apologist, nor a Holocaust denier nor has ever even onferred such. And there is much more, too. If you wish to discuss Chomsky, you will have to at least know his actual positions before trying to challenge him. THESE, are a few of the basics. If you don’t know these, then you will not be able to even begin making worthwhile arguments. Period. After you have reacherds this minimal level of understanding of his actual positions, not those attributed to him by illiterate liars like Oliver Kamm, David Horowitz, and a few other unworthy specimens of humanity, THEN you can make an argument and I might listen. Until then you’re blowing gas.kb

    “Still it seems that you have yet to comprehend what the the words, “credible sources” means….”

    Still seems that you don’t comprehend what the words “demonstrate that these are not credible sources” means. You’re funny.kb

    “Your idiotic comment: “Does any serious literate person believe that the data compiled and presented by someone like Chomsky is comparable to that put together by Ann Coulter? Sorry, but there IS a qualitative difference.kb” is easily fisked since Ms. Coulter has extensive notes that can be checked for validity of what she says where as Chomsky is apparently expecting the libtard audience he plays to to accept his words out of hand…”

    You actually DO think Coulter is in the same league, don’t you? How about Harry Potter? Coulter offers nothing. Zero. ANyway, you don’t know the first thing about Chomsky so there is really no reason to discuss this topic any longer. On the other hand, I know his works inside and out, as well as having read Coulter. It’s like saying that Beavis is on the same wave length as Einstein. Anyway, your admissions here have pretty much settled your case. Your out. Strike three. Go back to the locker room and clean it out. Wait! You are the bat boy anyway. Well, well, get out of here anyway. Coulter? How embarrassing. I’m embarrassed for you.kb

  151. Demosthenes Comment by Demosthenes

    Kb,

    I have a simple assignment for you if you’re up to the task. Please name at least one major weapon system/hardware (AA, tanks, aircraft, artillery, etc.) in the Iraqi order of battle that had its point of origin in the United States.

  152. Demosthenes Comment by Demosthenes

    As far as Chomsky is concerned, he is by far the most prominent hagiographer of the Khmer Rouge in the world. Make of that what you will.

  153. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    I have a simple assignment for you if you’re up to the task. Please name at least one major weapon system/hardware (AA, tanks, aircraft, artillery, etc.) in the Iraqi order of battle that had its point of origin in the United States.

    Preferably in 65 words or less.

  154. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    “Oddly enough, what I hear from my sources on the ground in Iraq is that nearly everything they find that is not indigenous to the country is either French or Russian.”

    What the hell do you think they’re going to say? That they’ve found, “lots more U.S. manufactured and supplied weapons”? Let’s at least attempt to be a little serious. The U.S. supported him for 20+ years, giving him aid of all sorts, weapons of all sorts, etc…and you are going to try and say that these things just don’t exist? Yet another attempt to refuse to accept responsibility. Don’t you guys EVER get past this apologetics stage, or is it so deeply ingrained that it dispossess you of even minimal rational thought? I can just hear some Nazi apologist claiming that there were no German weapons found in any of the countries they invaded, or in any of those countries in which they supplied the weapons to so as to impose fascism.kb

    As below, particularly in response to the bold portion. As Crunchie pointed out above, we are talking about guys on the ground passing on this information. Two in particular have a knowledge base nearly as extensive as my own, which is reasonably broad. One, an E6 currently on his second deployment, informed me that the closest approximation he had seen to US made weaponry was a rack of AR-18s, produced in Singapore. The second, an E5 who just returned from his first deployment over to the great litterbox, (he re-enlisted in his 50’s, just to go over, and why he didn’t go contract, I have NO idea), reported seeing a number of German and Austrian weapons, in addition to the usual shoals of Soviet and French stuff. Most of the small arms he encountered were of Russian or former Soviet Bloc manufacture. Most of the aircraft ordnance he personally encountered was of French manufacture. Ammunition was of multiple sources, and, when identifiable as to source, was Russian or French.

    (With the exception of two crates of Uzi subguns that turned up in one of the palaces. I suppose that this means the ISRAELIS were supplying Hussein with weapons and technology, at least in your rattlingly empty, cut and paste skull.)”

    You have demonstrated nothing thus far, other than you aren’t even capable of cutting and pasting where you’ve gotton your data. But to respond to your nonsensical blurb above, Israel, as far as I recall, never went to Iraq, became buddies with Saddam, supplied him with weapons for 20 years, including chemical weapons, which, as has already been demonstrated, he used on many people. So, why should I think Israel supported Saddam? I mean, true, there probably could be a few Israeli arms dealers who would have little problem indirectly supplying him if a buck could be made, you know those arms dealers. It would actually be pretty easy. Some dealer from Country X, whic isn’t on such hostile terms with Israel, expresses an interest in purchasing some of the Israeli manufactured weapons. Israel says sure. The dealer takes them to Saddam, hikes up the price, Saddam asks one of the presidents from the U.S. for some money to buy these great new weapons which they need to fight against Iran, or whoever, the U.S. gives Saddam YOUR money to buy them, and he uses them to fight against Israel, etc… at some later date. Hardly need an MBA to figure out business deals this basic.kb

    I will respond to the bold portion above. There is no way to do a cut and paste of a coversation held with a company commander over steaks. Now, as to whether I would trust this source? Well, yes, seeing as I have known him for over thirty years, and that, in the world that I live in, you dont lie to the guy that kept your ass from drowning, yes, I think I would. If he were under orders of any sort to NOT talk about what he had seen or done, he just would have told me “I can’t talk about it.”

    Yes, you’re right, it would be extremely easy for an unscrupulous arms dealer to divert any number of weapons to any place. However, the money that was supplied to Iraq was coming from American CORPORATIONS for the purchase of oil. Just like the money that Japan sent there, and Great Britain sent there, and just about every other country in the world that did business with Iraq. It was purchases of OIL.

    Tell you what. You go back through The Congressional Record, or the previous budgetsof the last thirty years, and you find EVIDENCE Military Assistance Program money going to Iraq during the time that Saddam Hussein was in power, and I will believe you. If not, just piss the fuck off. No, I am not going to “just search for it, you’ll find it!”

    You are the one making the claims, it is up to you to prove them.

    Show me the money trail.

    BTW, don’t try to claim that it’s true because some former CIA geek says it is. If the CIA tells me that the sky is blue, I’m gonna fucking look. Just remember, your friends in the “anti-war (bowel) movement” are the ones screaming that “The CIA lied!”. Now, you want to quote them as a credible source?

  155. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Should have been bold above. My Oops.

    What the hell do you think they’re going to say? That they’ve found, “lots more U.S. manufactured and supplied weapons”?

  156. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    The Civil rights movements, women’s rights, minority rights, environmentalism, etc…yes, all bad in the eyes of the depraved right.

    Please look at the AUTHORS and SUPPORTERS of the Federal legislation on civil rights. Hint: You will not find the the surname of “kennedy” in those lists. Particularly to The Civil Rights Act.

    The troops have almost nothing to do with any of this at all, though one could make an argument that they DO consiously choose to allow themselves to be used in certain acts which they may not be fully aware of, and which, if are found to be criminal acts, should be held accountable as well as the ones directing the crimes. Most troops can probably legitimately argue plausible deniability as they’re just following orders from above. On the other hand, those giving the orders should have a little more accountability. Are they guilty of shooting people, or not? If they shoot people for reasons which they’re not entirely aware of, does this
    excuse them or not? If they DO know why they’re killing people, and the reasons are actually correct and known, is this somehow different? These are questions to debate. I’m game.kb

    Please review the Uniform Code of Military Justice. You will in it a section on “Lawful Orders”. This was an outgrowth of Nuremburg Trials. If a soldier at any level recieves orders which believes to be unlawful, illegal, or not in conformance with the UCMJ, it is that soldier’s DUTY to not only not carry out those orders, but to bring them to the attention of the Judge Advocate General’s office. We did not allow “I was just following orders ” to be an excuse for committing atrocities in World War Two, and we do not allow it to be an excuse now.

    And he set fire to a few oil wells. Yes?

    A few THOUSAND, perhaps? Or is it just that Red Adair and his crew took several months per wellhead fire? As I recall, they were there for three or four years.

    He did? Where were they? They weren’t anywhere to be found when the U.S. went into save their anti-Democratic friends in Kuwait

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/medina.htm
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/rg.htm

    (actually a part of Iraq anyway if you want the truth),

    Do you have a source for this? (Oh, BTW, if you want to put in a claim for it being “a part of Iraq”, based on it being a part of a previous “Kingdom of Mesopotamia, (or whatever you want to call it), prior to 1945, then, by the same token, you will have to recognize the Israeli claim to the land of Israel, since that one goes back to before 1945 also.

    One other point. Concerning the “Anti-Democracy” status of the Kuwaitis. Kuwait is, to my knowledge a rarity in the Middle East. When the royal family of Kuwait nationalized the oil production of that country, the money that was taken in by the government was actually passed on to the PEOPLE of Kuwait in the form of employment, infrastructure, and living expenses. Rather like the North Slope oil revenues in Alaska are paid out to the citizens of Alaska.

    One other point, http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1615474,00.html

    In cmplete contrast to the monies which Iraq received under the UN Administered “Oil for Food”conspiracy, in which members of the UN bereaucracy received massive kickbacks, while Saddam got the rest.

    Or do you really believe that the two hundred odd “Presidential Palaces” were just freely donated by the happy kite-flying children of Iraq???

    We give big contracts to fellows like Cheney’s friends to come in and repair it.

    I’m sick of this one. KBR is hardly making tons of money from the contracts, and the only reason that KBR got the contracts in the first place is because they were the ONLY company that had the brains to comply with the laws passed under the Clinton Administration concerning having bid employees cleared to level of Secret and Top Secret. Look it up.

    We get a discount on the oil which we now indirectly control, if not outright control.

    Where is this oil of which you speak? I sure haven’t seen any of it!

    We have a U.S. presence there which will prpbaby stay forever, as this is one of the main benefits.

    And this is a bad thing in what way? It’s an area of the world in which we have needed a presence for quite some time, for more than we need to have troops stationed in Germany. (Although the Fwench will probably be very ungrateful the next time we have to bail their asses out from an invasion. (Like the one they are undergoing now…)) Personally, I rather like the idea of moving them to Poland. At least the Poles are willing to understand that sometimes you have to do things that are unpopular.

  157. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    Masterbater Sergeant said way back:

    “Can we get a TROLL cleanup on aisle, err, comment #4 please?”

    Why don’t YOU try and remove me?

    “Hardly surprising to see that this troll flies the meatball flag — the scurvy pennant of an ungrateful pack of sneaky little backstabbing thugs who merrily claim that the US started WW2 and should pay for the “war crimes” at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.”

    Of course the U.S. should pay for war crimes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not to mention the rest of Japan. Bombing women and children indiscriminately is called terrorism. Either that or you have just made an unwitting apologetic for bin Laden and have admitted that there was nothing wrong with 9/11. Well, which is it hypocrite? Oh, by the way, the bombing did NOT stop the war, as has now been demonstrated time and time again, so you can put that fairy tale apologetic back in your footlocker. If you even have one of the participants admitting that he’s a war criminal for the bombings, why can’t you admit it/(See Fog of War video)kb

    “And, not incidentally, still perhaps the most racist, xenophobic nation on earth.”

    I can think of a few others. But take heed, there are xenophobes to be found even in countries like the U.S. as one can easily see from many of the comments on this blog, yourself included. You’re not tough so quit acting like it. Now! Get down and give me 50, Pile!kb

    “Consider the source. And also consider reinstating our nuclear testing schedule in that area.”

    Woooo. How manly. I’m shaking. :lol_wp:You aren’t reinstating squat anywhere. Your type makes me laugh. You think you’re all tough or something. You remind me of the guy who loses it and caps himself in the bathroom in Full Metal Jacket. Now, relax, go sit in the sofa on your front porch, drink another Pabst, go beat your 4th wife (She’s the one with the ‘War is Good’ tattoo on one fat butt cheek, and ‘Where is my husband’s Dick’ on the other. Oh, and her upper dentures are still in that paper cup next to the Jim Beam, Bible, and gun.kb

    (Sorry, I regressed on this one just for practice. Awww…Sometimes it feels good to get down in the trenches with the pseudo-patriots and bitchslap them at their own game)

  158. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I UNITED STATES

    Masterbater Sergeant said way back:

    Listen, pal. I don’t care that you’re a frothing moron, I don’t give a fig about what else you think about the MSGT, nor do I intend to intervene in anybody’s insult-flinging matches…

    But you WILL respect the ranks of the armed forces and their proper names if you wish to continue posting here.

  159. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant said:

    “I have a simple assignment for you if you’re up to the task. Please name at least one major weapon system/hardware (AA, tanks, aircraft, artillery, etc.) in the Iraqi order of battle that had its point of origin in the United States.”

    Do you mean conventional weapons, or can the far worse, not to mention illegal (war crimes worthy)chemical weapons be included? Hell, let’s just do them all. Well, let’s start with a few of the worse ones:

    “Reports by the US Senate’s committee on banking, housing and urban affairs — which oversees American exports policy — reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.”

    ” The Senate report also makes clear that: ‘The United States provided the government of Iraq with ‘dual use’ licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programs.’”

    “This assistance, according to the report, included ‘chemical warfare-agent precursors, chemical warfare-agent production facility plans and technical drawings, chemical warfare filling equipment, biological warfare-related materials, missile fabrication equipment and missile system guidance equipment’.”

    “Riegle added that, between January 1985 and August 1990, the ‘executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record’.”

    But I’ll assume that you plan on trying to use the “dual-use” qualification as a sort of plausible deniability simply by saying “Well, we thought it was for crop-dusting.” or something equally as worthless. Don’t bother.kb

    “According to Ritter, between 90% and 95% of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction were destroyed by the UN. He believes the remainder were probably used or destroyed during ‘the ravages of the Gulf War’.”
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm
    (All quotes above come from this article. And I don’t really care what you think of Common Dreams. Deal with the issue and substance)

    Anyway, let’s proceed. How about a list of companies as well as the type of items they sold(Sorry, may be over 65 words, but I think even folks from the right can get up to 75 or so before they start convulsing:

    Key

    A = nuclear weapon program
    B = biological weapon program
    C = chemical weapon program
    R = rocket program
    K = conventional weapons, military logistics, supplies at the Iraqi Ministry of Defense, and building of military plants

    USA

    1. Honeywell (R, K)

    2. Spectra Physics (K)

    3. Semetex (R)

    4. TI Coating (A, K)

    5. Unisys (A, K)

    6. Sperry Corp. (R, K)

    7. Tektronix (R, A)

    8. Rockwell (K)

    9. Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)

    10. Finnigan-MAT-US (A)

    11. Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K)

    12. Dupont (A)

    13. Eastman Kodak (R)

    14. American Type Culture Collection (B)

    15. Alcolac International (C)

    16. Consarc (A)

    17. Carl Zeiss - U.S (K)

    18. Cerberus (LTD) (A)

    19. Electronic Associates (R)

    20. International Computer Systems (A, R, K)

    21. Bechtel (K)

    22. EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R)

    23. Canberra Industries Inc. (A)

    24. Axel Electronics Inc. (A)

    “In addition to these 24 companies home-based in the USA are 50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises which conducted their arms business with Iraq from within the US. Also designated as suppliers for Iraq’s arms programs (A, B, C & R) are the US Ministries of Defense, Energy, Trade and Agriculture as well as the Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories.”

    Now, this took me all of two minutes to find via Google. Do you folks not know how to use Google, or does your indoctrination prevent you from even knowing what sort of words to enter so as to lead you to places with actual information? “Let’s see..Hmm…Since I don’t really believe that the U.S. does anything wrong, ever, of course, and…uhhh…hmm…and I’ve never learned anything about this topic by listening to and reading all of my right-wing sources, or even the non-liberal MSM…uhhh…I’m not sure what to enter.”
    http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm

    (Now, in all fairness, this site does, corrctly, list those weapons supplied by other countries, too. THIS is NOT YOUR concern. You are responsible for what YOU have sold to the criminal/friend, so I don’t really need to hear about the sales from other countries. It’s irrelevant)

    Any other questions?kb

  160. Michael Comment by Michael UNITED STATES

    Bombing women and children indiscriminately is called terrorism.

    So what do you call manufacturing armarments of war? You do know by that time of the war armarments production was decentralized due to B-29 raids which sadily at that time we didn’t have these wonderful GPS guided munitions.

    Anyway- You begin to manufature war materail in your house you loose any protection. You become a legitimate Target.

  161. Michael Comment by Michael UNITED STATES

    All quotes above come from this article. And I don’t really care what you think of Common Dreams. Deal with the issue and substance

    Really? Its called Reliable sources- Commondreams and Editopedia aren’t valid sources but keep going back there to masturbate with the other leftards who believe it.

  162. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I UNITED STATES

    “According to Ritter, between 90% and 95% of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction were destroyed by the UN. He believes the remainder were probably used or destroyed during ‘the ravages of the Gulf War’.”
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm
    (All quotes above come from this article. And I don’t really care what you think of Common Dreams. Deal with the issue and substance)

    OK. So, on one hand, we have just about every single intelligence agency on the planet and, on the other, we have a pedophile, postulating prick desperate to sell a book.

    It’s damn well impossible to pick which one to believe under those circumstances, but I’m not surprised to see which one Common Delusions chose.

    As to your list, that’s all very fine.

    Now, if you’d kindly provide us with specific examples of the items that were sold (lest we get the idea that Eastman Kodak were dumping cheap Polaroid cameras on the Baghdad bazaars, or perhaps multi-channel biochemistry analyzers for use in hospitals) and the quantities thereof, you might actually have something at least vaguely resembling an argument.

  163. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    I have a simple assignment for you if you’re up to the task. Please name at least one major weapon system/hardware (AA, tanks, aircraft, artillery, etc.) in the Iraqi order of battle that had its point of origin in the United States.

    Answer the fucking question, asshat.

    Oh yeah, when you start spouting about “Administrations”, keep in mind who writes the laws in this country, and consider what party was in control of that particular branch of goverment during that time period.

    THIS is NOT YOUR concern.

    Wrong. I decide what is my concern.

    Now, since you have decided that you are the “Master of Google”, perhaps you can tell us just how many of the people of Cuba your “peaceful revolutionaries” Castro And Gueverra stood up against a wall and shot for being “members of the intelligentsia”.

    You know, like the parents of my customer three weeks ago. The one who escaped to the United States, went to medical school, and became a US citizen after watching his parents shot by Che.

    Now, got similar numbers for Batista?

    Didn’t think so.

    You, my friend, are an idiot.

  164. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Really? That’s odd. As I’ve already mentioned, I’ve read all of his books, some more than once, listened to hundreds of hours of lectgures, seen many lectures, corresponded with him, and I’ve never seen anything remotely close to resembling a conspiracy theory

    Well now there’s two painfully obvious problems here…

    Your command of the English language must be at best abysmal if you have listened to over a hundred hours of that fool Chomsky and can’t figure out bullshit when you are listening to it…

    The same problem applies to reading the libtard’s books…

    Then again if your entire existence is spent on mommy’s basement real world experience is NOT your forte…

    It means you lack the ability much like Chomsky to get a grasp on history (not the revisionist crap Chomsky keeps grabbing for) and context of events…

    Just one example of Chomsky’s inability to come to grips with reality is on display here: On the US-Israeli Invasion of Lebanon

    Chomsky doesn’t believe in conspiracy theories, eh?… :lol_wp:

    Here’s Chomsky’s delusion on parade here: Latin America and Asia Are at Last Breaking Free of Washington’s Grip

    The most hilarious thing about Chomsky’s drivel is that the man has no sense of shame about the lack of substance in it…

  165. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    :lol_wp: :lol_wp: Gawd! Look what I missed at work! The usual long on rhetoric, short on substance, the link king. I’m lovin’ it. Classic obsession, a persistent, irrational fixation with a given creature, concept or object. He’s just waitin’ to get booted so he can whine and scream how we won’t play by his rules. This boy needs a rubber room, a love jacket and some happy pills pronto! Question his sanity? Naaah, why belabor the obvious……gives the term redundant a new and terrible meaning. :lol_wp:

  166. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    gives the term redundant a new and terrible meaning.

    Department of Redundancy Department, perhaps?

    Actually, I suspect you are entirely correct. He/She/It wants to annot people until H/S/I gets banned from the Rott. Then he can go back to Demoncrapfilled Underwear or TehDailyKough and proudly brag to all of h/s/i’s little buddies about being “too much for the Rott to handle”…

    Of course, h/s/i just keeps running off on tangents, and cannot accept what the people on the ground in Iraq have to say. Hmm… Maybe that (Altered)-Reality Based thing has something to do with it?

  167. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    Woooo. How manly. I’m shaking. :lol_wp:You aren’t reinstating squat anywhere. Your type makes me laugh. You think you’re all tough or something. You remind me of the guy who loses it and caps himself in the bathroom in Full Metal Jacket.

    You’re real brave hiding behind that keyboard in Tokyo, pussy.  The smart money here says you’d piss your panties if you ever had to back up your bombastic bullshit.

    But just in case you ever grow balls larger than helium atoms and you find yourself in this hemisphere:

    18959 Lina St, #601
    Dallas, TX

    Anytime, chickenshit.  Let’s see how big those papier-machés  of yours really are, pansy-ass.

  168. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    Here ya’ go, Dave. It was only a matter of time before the weasel let the mask slip:

    Arafat? Mass murderer? Evidence. And Hamas, or any of the other groups fighting against Israels (sic) illiegal (sic) occupation for years? The (sic) perhaps you can show the numbers killed by Israerl (sic) while you’re looking for these, yes?

    :flush_tb:

    Had to wade through all of the other vast amounts of LefTardian propaganda that the moron has shat upon the Emperor’s carpets. (You have to hand to Chomsky & Fisk, they’ve really turned this one into a well-indoctrinated little Socialist shit-sniffer, haven’t they? Goebbels would have been proud of the results of this one’s “education”.)

  169. Unregistered Comment by I love fellating pink elephants (aka TheLeftIsWrong) UNITED STATES

    [No, JBitchboy, I don’t think so.  You keep forgetting you’ve been banned from here, remember?  -The Management™]

  170. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    It was only a matter of time before the weasel let the mask slip:

    Damn, BC, I’d forgotten to go back and slap on that one.

    as well as any freedom fighter shirts, like Che.

    But did you catch this one? #147.

    Yes, Marxist, Terrorist, Rapist, Murderer, = freedom fighter.

    It’s all for the CHHHIIIILLLLLLDRRREEEHNNNNNN, don’t you know.

  171. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Jeez. Is this fuckwit still digging?

    There are easier ways to get to China than that, but first you will have to take Chomsky’s cock out your mouth.

  172. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    BWAHHAHAH! Fucking priceless! An accurate description of the people who read this blog!

    Nice to see that you read this blog, TheLeftIsWrong. :lol_wp:

    Sometimes you fuckheads just make it too easy.

    Upudate: Well, I see that The Management™ deleted the above-referenced quote from JizzBoy. Carry on.

    [Sorry, BC.  Didn’t realize you were working on ripping ‘im a new one. (g)  -The Management™]

  173. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    There are easier ways to get to China than that, but first you will have to take Chomsky’s cock out your mouth.

    He’s trying to take the “Great Circle Route” so he can go do Arafat just one more time, Tiberius.

  174. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    You know KB, I’m still feel a little neglected here, you’ve totally ignored me in all of your “rebuttals”. Whatsamatta, don’t like me? :glurps_tb:

    Oh well. Listen, this “debate” has gone all over the place so lets narrow it down to just one topic shall we? You have claimed consistently that this is an illegal war and that Bush and co. should be tried for war crimes.

    Tell ya what. Give a specific example of a war crime committed during the battle in Iraq that was ordered as part of official administration policy or DoD directive.

    Then list what statutory authority determines the legality of a war, and what specific law was violated by the US when hostility’s commenced.

    Us against you debating these two points, minus the tripe and drivel seen thus far.

    Whatta ya say there KB? Up to some real debate?

  175. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant said:

    No I didn’t, dumbass.  I  said:

    Preferably in 65 words or less.

    And like the incompetent, fuckwitted boob you are, you couldn’t even manage that.  Not only did you not answer the question, you had to take wayyyyy  more than 65 words to not answer it.

    Even your honeyboy Chompshitski doesn’t get paid by the word, y’know.

  176. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    Should be interesting to see how long this thread is tomorrow. I think back to what my Dad told me about WW2 and the treatment afforded Allied POWs. For you see, we had the sheer gall to go ahead and win the damn thing. Something the self-haters simply cannot abide. For what they cannot control they seek to discredit or destroy. Fortunately they remain capable of neither. Nite all, gotta’ work…..

  177. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    LC Guido Cabrone said:

    “Please look at the AUTHORS and SUPPORTERS of the Federal legislation on civil rights. Hint: You will not find the the surname of “kennedy” in those lists. Particularly to The Civil Rights Act.”

    Do you guys from the right actually go to school at any point in your lives? Hey, I don’t claim to know much either, but usually when I don’t know anything at all I shut up, read, listen, and learn a little before I start ranting nonsense which I could have learned in two minutes time. I mean, if I just have the vaguest notion of what a basketball game is, I don’t stand up in the middle of a freethrow and scream “Kick the ball! Kick the ball! Get a homerun!”
    But to answer your question regarding Kennedy, uhh…because he was dead?kb

    Kennedy’s Civil Rights Bill
    The bill was promised by President John F. Kennedy in his civil rights speech of June 11, 1963,[1] in which he asked for legislation that would provide “the kind of equality of treatment which we would want for ourselves.”
    He then sent a bill to Congress on June 19. Mimicing the Civil Rights Act of 1875, Kennedy’s civil rights bill included provisions to ban discrimination in public accommodations, and to enable the U.S. Attorney General to sue state governments which operated segregated school systems, among other provisions.
    The bill was sent to the House of Representatives, and referred to the House Judiciary Committee, chaired by liberal New York Democrat Emmanuel Celler. After a series of hearings on the bill, Celler’s committee greatly strengthened the act, adding provisions to ban racial discrimination in employment. The bill was reported out of the Judiciary Committee in November 1963, but was then referred to the Rules Committee, whose chairman, the segregationist Virginia Democrat Howard W. Smith, indicated his intention to keep the bill bottled up indefinitely.
    It was at this point that President Kennedy was assassinated. The new president Lyndon Johnson, who hoped that support for Kennedy’s civil rights bill would help him gain support outside his native South in the upcoming 1964 presidential election, indicated his support for the bill. Johnson utilized his experience in parliamentary politics, and the bully pulpit he wielded as president, in support of the bill.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#Kennedy.27s_Civil_Rights_Bill

    And I guess all of those poor black folk and civil rights leaders just liked him because of his haircut. The right throughout history and never done a damn thing to improve much of anything regarding human rights and welfare, so quit trying to pretend to be some sort of agent of moral virtue. The left, and this is within most every country, are the ones who are usually fighting and dying for humanitarian causes. You probably wouldn’t know anything about this though. For the most part, the right have fought against anything progressive at all. And, oh, civil rights IS, by definition, progressive. From slavery, to women’s rights, etc…the left has always fought much of the right. However, in all fairness, there were a few from the right who suppressed their rascist views enough for political advantage thereby giving the illusion that they weren’t really the rascist monsters that they were. There were even a few from the left, who given their regions, sold out to satisfy their rascist constituency. And there is a qualitative difference between one selling out for political gain and one being against progress because, well, their rascist. This is old, so don’t even start trying to make arguments about how humanitarian and moral the right have been historically. I’m into non-fiction.

    “The assassination of John Kennedy in November 1963 left most civil rights leaders grief-stricken. Kennedy had been the first president since Harry Truman to champion equal rights for black Americans, and they knew little about his successor, Lyndon Baines Johnson. Although Johnson had helped engineer the Civil Rights Act of 1957, that had been a mild measure, and no one knew if the Texan would continue Kennedy’s call for civil rights or move to placate his fellow southerners.
    But on November 27, 1963, addressing the Congress and the nation for the first time as president, Johnson called for passage of the civil rights bill as a monument to the fallen Kennedy. “Let us continue,” he declared, promising that “the ideas and the ideals which [Kennedy] so nobly represented must and will be translated into effective action.” Moreover, where Kennedy had been sound on principle, Lyndon Johnson was the master of parliamentary procedure, and he used his considerable talents as well as the prestige of the presidency in support of the bill.”
    Perhaps because he was dead?
    Oh, and just to let you know, after a president has been assassinated one could probably get LOTS of sympathy votes, as happened in this very case, against the desires of many. http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/39.htm

    “The troops have almost nothing to do with any of this at all….(kb

    “Please review the Uniform Code of Military Justice. You will in it a section on “Lawful Orders”. This was an outgrowth of Nuremburg Trials.”

    Yes, I agree. And you have just supported Chomsky’s thesis regarding the fact that if the Nuremburg Laws were actually in affect every post war president would have been hanged. Where do you think he gets his information from in the first place?
    http://www.doublestandards.org/uswarcrimes.html
    http://www.chomsky.info/talks/1990—-.htm
    http://www.paktribune.com/news/print.php?id=109580

    “If a soldier at any level recieves orders which believes to be unlawful, illegal, or not in conformance with the UCMJ, it is that soldier’s DUTY to not only not carry out those orders, but to bring them to the attention of the Judge Advocate General’s office. We did not allow “I was just following orders ” to be an excuse for committing atrocities in World War Two, and we do not allow it to be an excuse now.”

    Sounds good, in theory. I’m just not sure how much a scared 18 year old who hardly knows how to zip up his pants, who has been trained to submit to authority and unquestioningly take orders, would actually act if even if he felt something was wrong. He’s probably slighty concerned about being blackballed if he doesn’t follow orders, even if he thinks they may be questionable, I would think. And then if he DOES follow the orders, and it turns out that they were, in fact, criminal, he’ll probably take the fall as a out of control and undisciplined country boy soldier. Perhpas a scenario might help to clarify your position.kb

    “And he set fire to a few oil wells. Yes?”(kb)

    “A few THOUSAND, perhaps? Or is it just that Red Adair and his crew took several months per wellhead fire? As I recall, they were there for three or four years.”

    And? What’S your point? That because the U.S. decided to attack their buddy for disobeying orders thereby causing him to start lighting the oil wells that the U.S. stopping the burning was noble or something? Like, if a guy who I’ve been supporting for 20+ years, who has gassed his own people, which didn’t affect my supporting him, decides to go into a neighborhood and take over a house which he used to previously own anyway, but lost a while back due to an imperialist takeover, and I decide that I want him out and start to go kick him out, and he decides to burn down the house rather than let me have if for my own exploitation, but I get there in time and put out the fires, that makes ME the hero? Hardly.kb

    “He did? Where were they? They weren’t anywhere to be found when the U.S. went into save their anti-Democratic friends in Kuwait”(kb)

    And what were the links to demonstrate?kb

    “(actually a part of Iraq anyway if you want the truth)”

    Yes. Many. There all over the place. Here, another two minute, actually 9 seconds, search:

    “As the victors of World War I, France and Britain dismantled the Ottoman Empire and the Arab nation for their own colonial purposes. The Iraq Petroleum Company was created in 1920 with 95% of the shares going to Britain, France, and the U.S. In order to weaken Arab nationalism, Britain blocked Iraqi access to the Persian Gulf by severing the territorial entity, “Kuwait” from the rest of Iraq in 1921 and 1922. This new British colony, Kuwait, was given artificial boundaries with no basis in history or geography. King Faisal I of the new Iraqi state ruled under British military oversight, but his administration never accepted the amputation of the Kuwait district and the denial of Iraqi access to the Persian Gulf. Attempts by Faisal to build a railway to Kuwait and port facilities on the Gulf were vetoed by Britain. These and other similar British colonial policies made Kuwait a focus of the Arab national movement in Iraq, and a symbol of Iraqi humiliation at the hands of the British.”
    http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/iraqkuwait.html
    http://members.aol.com/XPUS/Iraq.html

    There are hundreds of places where one can find out about the basics of history. And that you seem to be unaware of them is quite interesting. One would think that if they’ve been ordered half way around the world, or even supported the policy of going half way around the world, to kill people, that they probably should have some idea of why they’re there, yes. I would think that keeping the fact from people that Kuwait was an imperialist creation that was little more than a ME gas station for Britian might be important to know. Perhaps it may add a little color/reality to the reasons, rationalizations, excuses, pretexts, etc…that one goes half way around the world to potential be killed or to kill others, yes? See, if the government was just up front with the population and said “Hey, Kuwait is actually a part of Iraq, and even though the folks there aren’t remotely close to being democratic, we want to protect the oil on their land that we have claimed for ourselves against the wishes of the population of the region so that you can buy and drive Hummers which also help to create more air pollution at a lower price.” Then, after being informed of the basics, we, as a country, could decide whether or not this was worth it. My hunch is that the majority of the population is much too moral and decent to kill based on this reason. Hence this is exactly why the true reasons aren’t to be discussed, and fairy tales have to be inserted instead, like “fighting for democracy and freedom”, “fighting terrorism”, and the rest of the nonsense.kb

    “Do you have a source for this? (Oh, BTW, if you want to put in a claim for it being “a part of Iraq”, based on it being a part of a previous “Kingdom of Mesopotamia, (or whatever you want to call it), prior to 1945, then, by the same token, you will have to recognize the Israeli claim to the land of Israel, since that one goes back to before 1945 also.”

    Yes, well, an argument could be made, but I think your attempted comparison here will fall flat quite quickly and can be appllied to most countries, especially the easily identifiable way the U.S. was created. Oh, and by the same token, to use your logic, the U.S. should have tried to kick out the Israelis when they came back to claim “their land” then, too. If you wish to open this box perhaps we can. The reasons, details, and features are much more complex and actually quite different in many ways, but it’s interesting to look at.kb

    “One other point. Concerning the “Anti-Democracy” status of the Kuwaitis. Kuwait is, to my knowledge a rarity in the Middle East. When the royal family of Kuwait nationalized the oil production of that country, the money that was taken in by the government was actually passed on to the PEOPLE of Kuwait in the form of employment, infrastructure, and living expenses.”

    Where on earth should the wealth go? And what does this have to do with being democratic? The right in the U.S. right now is attempting to demonize Chavez precisely because he is attempting to take the oil money to the people. And Venezuela I’d have to say is slight more democratic than Kuwait. And then there’s Saudi Arabia, which is our biggest buddy, and probably the most fundamentalist country in the world. What about our concern for democracy there? “Let’s see…Hmm…oil or democracy?…hmm….oil or democracy….uhh…just a minute…OIL!!!!! Now if you just lower that price by another dollar a barrell, I won’t look when you lop the head off that kid who looked at a photo of a naked lady, friend. Could you imagine if Saudi Arabia ever did anything to piss off the U.S. enough to invade? Can you imagine the list of “crimes they’ve committed against their own people” and how it will be used to justify the invasion? It would probably look pretty much the same as Iraq. The right would be oblivious to the fact that most all of the crimes were committed DURING the time they were our friends, and make the usual apologetics, pseudo-patriotic chants about defending democracy, liberating the people, etc…and the left would be saying the same thing, too. “Why the hell were we supporting them in the first place if we minded their human rights record?” and anticipating the blowback which will inevitably occur.kb

    “Rather like the North Slope oil revenues in Alaska are paid out to the citizens of Alaska.

    Hey, I have nothing against the people using their resources for themselves, and NOT simply a few. Why would I? This is a basic tenet of being a lefty. They should do it much more. You should be looking at your own country’s history of supporting the very people who did NOT do this at all. On the contrary, they’ve often supported the very people wo kept the money from the people.kb

    One other point, http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1615474,00.html

    “In complete contrast to the monies which Iraq received under the UN Administered “Oil for Food”conspiracy, in which members of the UN bereaucracy received massive kickbacks, while Saddam got the rest.”

    First, I would ask since when is anyone from the right concerned about the immorality of kickbacks? That’s already quite funny. It’s like a mafia don complaining that crime in his town is out of control. Secondly, if there were any illegalities committed then the guilty should be punished accordingly. If your point is to denigrate the U.N. because it represents a civil attempt by humanity at getting along with each other, and does a far better job than religion ever has, you should just exclude yourself from the world community, as many of the fanatic right would love to do anyway. Hey, I don’t call for all of Christianity to be closed down because some right-wing Christian fanatic speaking in tongues snake dancer screws his flock out of their money to buy a big car in the name of God, as well as actually screws the secretary. And the paltry amount in this “scandal” pales in comparison to the money which Saddam recived from the U.S. Anyway, here’s an easy answer to this “challenge”. Perhaps you can see a little of the right’s rationales discussed here:
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200412070005

    “Or do you really believe that the two hundred odd “Presidential Palaces” were just freely donated by the happy kite-flying children of Iraq???”

    Since when is the right concerned about how Saddam spends his money? I mean, he was our buddy, remember, when he was spending all of this money. It’s actually quite a good illustration of what the friends of the U.S. have often done in the opast. I think there are slightly more important things you should be concerned about anyway, like the hundreds of thousands of children who died due to sanctions. YOU are responsibile for thesekb
    http://www.countercurrents.org/us-chomsky080604.htm
    http://blog.zmag.org/ee_links/oil_for_food_farce

    “We give big contracts to fellows like Cheney’s friends to come in and repair it.”(kb)

    “I’m sick of this one.”

    Yeah, me too. That’s why the illegality of it should be stopped. Insider trading, cronisim, etc…are all illegal, and the criminals should be prosecuted.kb

    “KBR is hardly making tons of money from the contracts, and the only reason that KBR got the contracts in the first place is because they were the ONLY company that had the brains to comply with the laws passed under the Clinton Administration concerning having bid employees cleared to level of Secret and Top Secret. Look it up.”

    You’re STILL assuming that the U.S. has some right to do anything there at all. Where the hell do you think you got this right? The U.S. has no right being there at all, much less deciding who should and shouldn’t get contracts so as to further exploit the misery they’ve helped to create. Why not let the 300,000+ young men who have lost their jobs because of the war start working and rebuilding the country we’ve helped destroy instead of sitting around waiting to join what amounts to little more than a street gang to shoot at U.S. troops?kb

    “We get a discount on the oil which we now indirectly control, if not outright control.(kb)”

    “Where is this oil of which you speak? I sure haven’t seen any of it!”

    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/contractindex.htm
    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm
    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/contract/2006/1211occupation.htm
    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/contract/2006/1205census.htm

    There’s also a water issue, but that’s a different story:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/wells05162003.html

    “We have a U.S. presence there which will prpbaby stay forever, as this is one of the main benefits.”(kb)


    “And this is a bad thing in what way? It’s an area of the world in which we have needed a presence for quite some time, for more than we need to have troops stationed in Germany. (Although the Fwench will probably be very ungrateful the next time we have to bail their asses out from an invasion. (Like the one they are undergoing now…)) Personally, I rather like the idea of moving them to Poland. At least the Poles are willing to understand that sometimes you have to do things that are unpopular.”

    We “need”? I’ve raely heard such an open call for imperialism so strightforward before. Let me ask you a very basic question. Do other countries have the same rights? If the think they have “needed to have a presence” in the U.S. are you going to just sit back and say “Sure, why not!” And will you think it a little odd, when upon hearing your desire that they not come into your country, for them to act surprised and perplexed, because they just assumed that they had some right to be there, and couldn’t understand why you wouldn’t be cheering them for their presence? And then when they started giving their buddies from back home contracts to fix the places they destroyed in your country, you would just gaze in wonderment at their magnificance? Somehing tells me that you would not. Anyway, for a good read full of facts about U.S. imperialism as it now stands and is developing, see:
    The Sorrow of Empire by Chalmers Johnson.
    May as well read Blowback while you’re at it.

    Thanks for the links. You’ve now broken rank with every single person from the right I’ve talked to thus far on this blog. And you didn’t call me “moonbat” either. At least not yet.kb

  178. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    LC & IB Tiberius still with nothing to offer drooled:

    “Jeez. Is this fuckwit still digging?
    There are easier ways to get to China than that, but first you will have to take Chomsky’s cock out your
    mouth.”

    Well, first of all, I don’t really need to dig to get to China as it’s only a few hundred miles to the west of here. Being aware that I was in Japan I would have thought you would have been aware of this fact. Just more evidence that the right hasn’t a clue about direction, regarding, well, much of anything. Secondly, did you wish to challenge something regarding Chomsky’s work, or just cry and whine and call literate people names because they can read, make arguments, etc…and you can say “fuckwit”, “moonbat” and those other things which reveal your incompetence?kb

  179. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    Oh, and Salad(Tiberius), one more thing. Were Chomsky’s cock actually in my mouth, what relevance would that have to whether or not his arguments, or my quoting of them, were any less correct? I mean, just wondering. Now, if you’d get off your mother’s back and make an argument perhaps this would go somewhere.kb

  180. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Oh my god. You are so fucking stupid it is almost unbelievable.

    First you miss the obvious sarcasm about block quotes, and it took crunchie to point it out to you.

    Now you again miss it. Of course it is fucking easier for you to fly to China from Japan - meaning you don’t have to publicly dig your way there in a huge hole of stupidity as you are doing in this thread.

    Tell me guys, the rest of you got that joke didn’t you?

  181. Demosthenes Comment by Demosthenes

    Kb,

    I asked for weapon systems sold by the US government to baathist Iraq. What you have given me is a list of private companies that may (or may not have) sold components that may have been used in the design of WMD. Now please, the Iraqi order of battle please.

    Bonus question: Also, please provide evidence of direct American military aid to the Iraqis during the Iran/Iraq war. If you can find any reference to aid other than intelligence reports about Iranian troop movements in the Shatt al-Arab provided to the Iraqis, please list them.

  182. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    Tell me guys, the rest of you got that joke didn’t you?

    We got it, Tib, no worries.  Kaffiyed Bongsucker’s just an abject dumbass of a fool, is all.

  183. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Hey Guido and Tiberius, what kind of troll bait are you guys using? He really seems to have taken a likin’ to you two, but I don’t even get a nibble. Guess I’ve lost the touch. Or maybe my avatar just scares him. Guess there won’t be any troll meat in the freezer this trip huh?

  184. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    He seems to be ignoring Demosthenes too. Probably can’t pronounce his name, to many vowels or something. Couldn’t possibly be that KBis scared of Demos’ challenge, could it?

  185. LC Ranger 6 Comment by LC Ranger 6 UNITED STATES

    You guys are trying to explain color to Helen Keller. kb obviously lacks the capacity of rational thought.

    You’ll never convince him that he is wrong. Commonly known as Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts

  186. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    You guys are trying to explain color to Helen Keller. kb obviously lacks the capacity of rational thought.

    No, R6, he is capable of rational thought, it’s just that he is very persistent in creating a world in which everything the United States has ever done is wrong, and every action ever taken by his heroes, Che, Castro, Stalin, Arafat, (and probably Osama, but I haven’t seen that statement yet, so I won’t attribute it to him/her/he/she/it. Yet.), is perfectly fine.

    He is under the mistaken illusion that the United States government somehow created Saddam Hussein out of whole cloth, put him in power, and then kept him there, and that the only reason we enforced the United Nitwits resolutions was because he had been a naughty little boy, and we weren’t gonna let him get away with it.

    Somehow, he thinks that international trade in commodities is simply evil capitalism in action, and no one whould under any circumstance buy anything from anyone. Expecially from a country run by some evil dictator who not only (allegedly) managed to shoot all the Marxists he could find, but then became, (and this is a reality disconnect for him, being an apparent proto-Marxist h/h/h/s/iself), for all intents and purposes a Soviet client.

    Now, and this is where things get really convoluted, and I have obviously not consumed sufficient illicit substances to follow kb’s reasoning.

    If the CIA had installed Sodomized in power in the first place, and he had turned his back on us to take up with our declared enemies, why didn’t the CIA take his ass out, or, why did the CIA not produce an IE during the 1991 Gulf War showing that we would be in far better shape if we just kept right on rolling and removed him then? I am willing to bet good money that, if one were to go digging about in the filing cabinets at Langley, one could find any number of documents and IEs showing just that.

    More to the point, IIRC, Bush Sr. had some pretty close ties to the CIA. It would have relatively easy for someone he trusted at Langley to get a meeting with him in 1991 and say, “George, buddy, we gotta take Saddam out, and this is why.” So, if that were the case, and Hussyain had sold out the CIA rather than filling his end of the bargain, (and I will be the first to admit that the CIA does seem to operate even more like an organized crime syndicate than the REST of government does), why didn’t they do it?

    Simplest explanation? He wasn’t theirs to begin with.

    And, if you note, he still hasn’t answered the question about naming a major weapon system built using American technology or components. And he never will.

    Iraq got most of it’s off the shelf stuff from Russia and France, the vast majority of it’s technology from Europe, (as I recall, Osirak was built by the French, just for an example, and all those nice bomb shelters by Germany), and minor tech transfers from the US.

    Come to think of it, weren’t the NorKs selling him missiles, too?

    And, Crunchie, I dunno, can’t explain it. Must be the hair. :lol_wp:

  187. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Guido I’m thinking it’s your cologne :smile_wp:

  188. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    NR Pax said:

    “Gents, after some consideration, I feel I should answer some of kb’s earlier statements to me. If this is an instance of “feeding the trolls” feel free to delete the comment.”

    Still no one has given me a defintion of a troll. Thus far it’s only been used by folks who don’t like my ideas, or that I haven’t kept them to three word soundbites emoty of content, like “He’s a moonbat. Na nana nanaa na! I sure got him!” If trying to get into details is trolling then fine, I’m a troll. Whoopie!kb

    “Yes, this is a nice copout. It’s been used to support many of the most brutal dictators of our times, as well as throughout history.”(kb)

    “OK, that bit of rudeness was a touch out of line. I have not insulted you, nor baited you in any manner here. I simply answered your statement.”

    Fine.kb

    “And it’s not a copout. U.S. foreign policy, and presumably the foreign policy of any country with elected representatives, tends to be a bit short-sighted. It comes from worrying more about getting re-elected than trying to implement a long-term plan.”

    Then if by changing the system we can prevent the short-sightedness which would, in turn, prevent us from becoming involved with folks like Saddam, and this would reduce the umber of people killed, then we need to change the system and quitpretending that the structure is graven in stone. Nothing is. It can all change.kb

    “Besides, Sadaam was considered an ally and then he was not. Things change, administrations change, new facts come out and the people who run the CIA change.”

    Yes, this is correct. He was considered an ally up until the day before he invaded Kuwait, LONG after his worst crimes were committed, and then the next day he was not. He was Satin. He was Hitler reincarnate. Now, how many seconds would it take a rational person to deduce that and change from favored murderer to Hitler overnight was a little odd? Tyhat only one day earlier we had given him a billion dollars, and now he was Hitler. Well, what does that make us? And what would it say about us that for the past 20 years he was doing all of his killing, and we were making excuses for him. It’s not like he changed into a monster overnight, and no rational person would think so, by definition.kb

    “Perhaps we should be reconsidering whose interest we should be supporting, say, perhaps, the vast majority of the population of these countries. Just a thought.(kb)

    “Actually, we need to worry more about our own country in terms of our foreign policy.”

    Well, I’ll agree with you 100% on that one. And this is precisely why invading Iraq was NOT a good thing, increased the threat of terror, has killed thousands of people, created more disdain for the U.S. than we already had, etc…THIS is NOT good for the country. This cowboy “We’ve got big guns and we’re coming into town” dumbass mentality. The U.S. might be powerful, but it’s not THAT powerful. We presumably have the greatest, most advanced, military in the world and we can’t even get a country which was decimated by years of sanctions, which has no army, who the right claims wants us there, in spite of all polls which say otherwise, etc…to do our bidding. Just think if several countries with actual armies decided to fight. Yes, the U.S. is strong, but every empire in history which was built on thinking might makes right eventually failed. It’s just a fact. So, in my opinion, any notion which even resemble wanting to move in this direction are little more than another nail in the coffin and are detrimental to the country.kb

    “Would you like references? They’re only all over the place. But if you want me to do the work it’ll take all of 1 minute. Are you denying this?”(kb)

    “You post a long-winded tirade that comes across as a conspiracy theory”

    There’s nothing I’ve said which remotely resembles a conspiracy theory, nor has anyone demonstrated otherwise. Actually, I haven’t really said anything much but the basic and obvious facts so far. Perhaps it only sounds conspitorial to those who have never hear the data before, and incorrectly deduce that it must be made up, or a conspiracy theory. Sorry, but the folks I get data from, like Chomsky(I just wanted to say Chomsky again because Tiber hates it so much because he’s never read him, but he magically knows his thought anyway), are anti-conspiracy theorists. Many have written about this entire notion at length. But you’d have to actually read them to know what they said. And I’m sure a few would think this, too, is part of the “conspiracy”. Anyway, this is a non-issue as was recognizing that Michael Jordan was a great basketball player was a non-issue. For those who know both, there is no issue. The only people I’ve ever heard mention Chomsky and conspiracy in the same breath are folks who either know nothing about him because they’ve never read him, or have read a little and STILL know nothing about him. Those are the only two choices. I’ve been keeping up with his work for MANY years, so it IS a topic I’m familiar with. Anyway, here are a few things to read if you want to see where at least some of the left get their data. And, as Chomsky often says, you shouldn’t believe anything he says anymore than you believe what anyone else says. YOU have to do your own work, look at evidence presented by whoever, ask questions, challenge things, etc…and come up with your own answers. I can’t even remotely conceive of someone from the right advising such notion. If they did, they’d be many more folks from the right reading many more things from the left if for no other reason so that they’d have some idea of what they think they’re against, which they usually don’t.kb
    http://www.chomsky.info/onchomsky/20031209.htm
    http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/articles/oldalbert19.htm
    http://www.rense.com/general74/dismiss.htm

    “so yes I am going to ask for sources. And your saying that it wasn’t until several comments later that you could post references? I’m sure that post #9 took about five minutes on your part. You could have spared another minute.”

    It wasn’t until later that I could post anything because my comments weren’t being accepted at all, NOT because I was having difficulty finding any. Never do. Never have. You think I’m worried about not being able to post references? That’s funny. I usually do without anyone having to ask. And as you can see, I am criticsed for doing this as well. I’m thinking about stopping from doing this at all because I’d say that less than 1% of the folks from the right actually read anything I leave, or anything at all that I can discern. I mean, why would they, they already know what it says, somehow, magically, even though when discussing it they rarely get it right.kb

    “It’s technically illegal to invade another country. Period!”

    I agree.

    It’s definitely illegal.

    Yes, defeated by an illegal invasion. Sort of skipping the basics, aren’t we?

    “Again with the uncalled rudeness. But no, I am not skipping the basics. Sadaam invaded Kuwait, his country was defeated.”

    His invasion of Kuwait has nothing to do with the U.S. taking it upon themselves to do anything at all. Zero. Nothing. Same goes for Afghanistan. Same goes for Iraq II The U.S. doesn’t determined who is going to do what , to whom, and when. The U.N. does. But this is part of the new American agenda which is causing most of the problems in the first place. Afghanistan is point in case. The U.S. determined, without Security Council agreement, to go in a start bombing based on little or no evidence. They probably could have gotten it, but they didn’t bother. This was a demonstration to the rest of the planet that the U.S. didn’t need international rules, laws, etc…and would simply act as a rogue state. I mean, true, there have been many similar instances in the past, such as Reagan’s terrorist war against Nicaragua, where the U.S. was charged and found guilty with unlawful use of force(terrorism) by the World Court and ordered to pay over a billion dollars in reparations, etc…to which the U.S. ignored the ruling and extended the terror, and said it would no longer observe the court’s rulings or authority. See, to law abiding citizens around the world, this open display of contempt for international law, rules, etc…shows that there is something to fear. A lawless state which is armed to the teeth. By the way:

    “…if you think the World Court and Security Council and international law have some significance. Well, in 1986, the International Court of Justice condemned the United States for international terrorism — “unlawful use of force” — in its war against Nicaragua. Again I am going to keep to the guidelines, bend over backwards, and allow this to be interpreted just as international terrorism, not the war crime of aggression. So we will call it “international terrorism.” The court ordered the United States to terminate the crimes and to pay substantial reparations, millions of dollars. Congress reacted by instantly escalating the war by new funding… Nicaragua took the matter to the Security Council, which debated a resolution calling on all states to observe international law, mentioning no one but everyone knew who was meant. The U.S. vetoed it. Nicaragua then went to the General Assembly which passed similar resolutions in successive years. The United States and Israel opposed and in one year they got El Salvador [to join them].”
    http://www.chomsky.info/talks/200202–02.htm

    What kind of message to you think this sends the world? Or do you care? Personlly, I do. We all live on the same planet, and should all respect each other as much as possible. And while this may seem a little sentimental to those who like to pretend they don’t give a rat’s ass about anyone but themselves, and cynically pretend that it’s cool to do so, I believe that these folks are few, far between, and should grow up. Anyway, if broken U.N. Resolutions are going to be your argument as a rationale for the U.S. going in, then I believe you’re putting yourself into a corner. Besides, it wouldn’t matter if Saddam broke every resolution in the book, the U.S. has no authority to do anything by itself. None. Zero. Unless it wishes to be breaking international law, or even committing war crimes, as is specifically stated in the U.N. Charter. Here, I want you to read these few pages from who some may say is the most “radical of the left”, though personally I think he’s quite conservative, and point out where mistakes have been made. Some of these are old, so please take that into consideration, but this is also good in a way so that one can see what was being said at that time, and how things have, or haven’t, perhaps, transpired. Fellows like Tiber, Juanita, and the like, won’t read them because their channel told them that they didn’t need to, but you seem rather resonable so far, so perhaps you can read. And, by all means, and I ALWAYS ask for this, feel free to forward any links, book recommendations, etc…you know of. Actually, I’d be interested in some of the main military journals or blogs if you know any names. I’ve looked around, but there are so many choices that I’m may be wasting time on fluff when there are more serious ones arond. Perhaps you know?
    Regarding Iraq and U.N.
    http://www.chomsky.info/onchomsky/1999—-02.htm
    (I’ve put this first because I think it gives a rather thorough background of where Chomsky as well as many other on the left are coming from. Oh, and will be sticking primarily to Chomsky because I rarely get any responses beyond the usual name-calling ones like that of Tiber, Jand the other fellows,. Oh, and because they hate him so much. This makes all the more pleasuable. Now, if I could just get them to know why they hate him. But that would entail reading, and, well, you know….))kb
    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20041217.htm
    http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199802–.htm
    http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199510–.htm
    http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/19980312.htm

    “As a result, the terms of his surrender were spelled out quite clearly.
    He refused to comply, he allowed his people to starve, his ground stations targetted U.S. planes that were enforcing the No Fly Zone”

    Yes, and this doesn’t mean the U.S. has any right to do anything. That’s the point of the U.N. IT decides what actions will be taken, NOT the U.S. And the “no fly zone” is itself breaking international law.kb
    http://www.representativepress.org/noflyzones.html
    http://www.fff.org/comment/com0211h.asp

    “and the U.N. did nothing. The only thing that was different was that President Bush finally called upon the U.N. to do what they had promised.”

    Are you sure about that? Where are you getting your information? References, please. And may I ask a question? If we discover that what I say is, in fact, accurate, are you willing to concede the point, or are you going to keep defending your current thesis till the grave? Hey, I’m willing to change every position I have on everything if the evidence presented is good enough. I don’t really believe in anything so much that better facts can’t adjust my thinking, hopefully. I AM, however, pretty sure that calling folks “moonbat” won’t help anything though. Not that you’re doing it, but we know who is.kb

    “Slightly less than the number of U.S. troops killed already for oil. Do you have “any references”?”

    That’s only fair.
    Here.
    (By the way, isn’t it illegal to have a mass execution and bury the bodies in mass graves?)
    Here
    and even Here

    Where?kb

    “So far, all the research is proving is that the death toll under Saddam’s regime is in the six figures, which is far more than the number of U.S. troops that have died over there.”

    Higher than U.S. troops, perhaps, but I’m not talking about only U.S. troops, I’m talking about people dying in Iraq. Remember, Iraqis are people, too. And, once again, most of the killing was done when we were still supporting him. Anyway, the estimates vary quite wildly as can be seen here:
    http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr14/0.php
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project

    There have been many criticisms, but that a more presice accounting seems to be so complicated is interesting in and of itself. What’s the difficulty? When it comes to U.S. casualties we usually get it down the every last person. However, what often happens is that the U.S. prohibits, and prevents objective researchers from trying to do studies at all by saying that the areas are too dangerous, etc…The numbers are purposely kept vague and measures are often taken to make sure the actual numbers are never revealed. This is NOT, mind you, a conspiracy either. This is VERY common. I mean, when you even have leaders saying things like:

    “Gen. Tommy Franks, the top officer in the U.S. Central Command for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, summed up the American military’s attitude when he told reporters during the Afghan campaign, “We don’t do body counts.”
    In fact, the Pentagon stopped counting the people killed by its soldiers after the Vietnam war, where the numbers publicized were often inflated by field commanders and Pentagon officials in attempts to show the war was going better than it was. Those attempts ultimately backfired when the body counts provided fuel for the anti-war movement.
    But the U.S. military, like the British, does count its own dead and wounded, even if it has tried to limit the public’s awareness of those numbers by preventing the media from covering military funerals or the coffins returning from Iraq.”
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/casualties.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3672298.stm
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0420-07.htm
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A26305-2003Apr14?language=printer

    Good reading! Maybe I could get Helen Keller to tell Tiber and Juanita what all of this meant were she still with us. It’s pretty bad when a blind and deaf socialist like herself has more clue than do a few folks with supposedly all of their faculties working, though there’s not really any evidence yet that they have been.

  189. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant squirted:

    “When little boys can’t quite keep up with the big boys they often allow name-calling to take the place of intelligent debate.”(kb)

    “When you prove you’re a big boy, maybe we’ll take you a little more seriously.
    Until then, you’re nothing but a pansy-ass. And a pretty pathetic one at that.”

    Well, I actually already have on many occasions, such as eliciting this very response from you and proving my point. Did you care to make an argument of some sort or were you just going to sit there, cry and whine that I’m wrong without giving any evidence, call names, and pretend that you’ve accomplished something other than further demonstrating your ignorance? You see, I HAVE given evidence for most everything I’ve mentioned thus far(especially your ignorance). Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong. But you have done zero to prove either one, including the very comment above demonstrating, yet again, that you’ve failed to do anything at all beyong scratching your butt. Every try knitting? I mean, why are you here? You have offered nothing thus far. And you had the nerve to call me a troll? That’s funny.kb

  190. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    BC Imperial Torturer said, barely:

    “Fisk is one of the most respected, intelligent, informed, and knowledgable folks on many of the topics at hand.”

    “Dave, no further proof is needed. KB can now go back to trying to figure out how HalliBusHitlerCo™ used HAARP to create Hurricane Katrina, steer it towards NOLA and force the po’ black folks from their homes so that the Eeeeevil Rethuglicans could come in, tear down their houses and put up casinos.

    Yes, further proof is needed because you have given none yet. You dispute that Fisk is a well respected journalist, but you give no evidence at all that he isn’t, nor have you for anything you’ve said thus far, as I’ve pointed out/demonstrated in virtually every comment thus far. Your simple-mindd opinion means squat. If I wanted that I could go talk to the light pole outside. Probably get more answers anyway. So, were you going to give any evidence for anything you’ve asserted since I’ve been coming to this blog, or just keep blogging off. It WILL make you go blind(er) Tiber told me when he was buying his black glasses and cane? Just to decend a little into your realm of vulgarity, you guys remind me of a cartoon I once saw where there was a blind guy spanking his monkey while his seeing eye dog was looking at a porno magazine for him. I’ll assume this is how you get your references, too.kb

    KB, you really should put down the bong at least once every decade or so.

    Buh-bye.

    Posted on January

  191. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Then if by changing the system we can prevent the short-sightedness which would, in turn, prevent us from becoming involved with folks like Saddam, and this would reduce the umber of people killed, then we need to change the system and quitpretending that the structure is graven in stone. Nothing is. It can all change.kb

    And what exactly are you offering to change our Republic KB? A monarchy, a socialist utopia, outright dictatorship? Your leftist beliefs to the contrary, democracies are inherently peaceful peaceful and don’t wage wars of aggression, especially not on each other. As far as our structure of government being graven in stone, it is. It’s called the Constitution of the United States and many of the LC’s here have sworn oaths and often times bled to defend it.

  192. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Ah crap, that posted before I was done for some reason. Management, please remove that last paragraph, the quote from KB.

    [Done, sir.  And if the little pansy-assed chickenshit doesn’t show some respect in a hurry, it won’t be the only paragraph of his that goes bye-bye.  -The Management™]

  193. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Yes, this is correct. He was considered an ally up until the day before he invaded Kuwait, LONG after his worst crimes were committed, and then the next day he was not. He was Satin. He was Hitler reincarnate. Now, how many seconds would it take a rational person to deduce that and change from favored murderer to Hitler overnight was a little odd? Tyhat only one day earlier we had given him a billion dollars, and now he was Hitler. Well, what does that make us? And what would it say about us that for the past 20 years he was doing all of his killing, and we were making excuses for him. It’s not like he changed into a monster overnight, and no rational person would think so, by definition.kb

    Hussein was never an ally as much as a lesser of two evils, a useful pawn on the international chess board to counter other adversaries in the region. We never made “excuses” for him. Our mistake in ME foreign policy, admitted to by W BTW, was that we sought stability rather than freedom. That has changed now as we realized that stability isn’t stable. Free people don’t war on each other, don’t fly planes into buildings, and free government’s don’t encourage or harbor those that do.

    This cowboy “We’ve got big guns and we’re coming into town” dumbass mentality.

  194. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    LC 0311 crunchie drooled:

    “KB is un-fuckin-believable. I have read all of his comments. Every one (yes my eyes are bleedin). He site as sources obviously biased, leftist sources, and when he is challenged on their credibility all he can offer in retort is that we are all brainwashed by “propaganda”, without backing up his counter claims against our sources.”

    Blah, blah, blah…This means nothing. You haven’t challenged a line from any of these “biased” sources, so whoopie! I’m not really interested if you perceive them to be leftist, rightist, centrist, or from Mars. I’m interested in whether or not what they assert is fact or not. And, as of my writng this sentence, there has been NO evidence that a single line from a single one of the sources is incorrect. Once again, your simply saying so means squat. Prove it. And, no, saying it isn’t proof. You guys are REALLY having a difficult time wit this one, huh? Here, let me try to dumb it down for you, though I’m not really sure of I can get that low:
    1)I assert something a leave a quote, or a link, or something(already more than any of you pseudo-patriots have done).
    2)You demonstrate with you own sources, and as I said before this doesn’t mean your opinion, I mean, actual sources where you’re getting your information.
    3)I will attempt to challenge this with my counter-arguments
    4) You can attempt to challenge that with your counter-arguments
    5)repeat 3 and 4 ad infinitum

    Now, personally, I really don’t see why this is so difficult for you guys, especially given that the sources I’ve been supplying you with are so bad, yes? Should be quite easy to pick them apart. But you seem to be having so much trouble even doing it once. What does this say about you? I’ve say I’ve left about 40 links thus far, and you haven’t responded to a one. Now, how would you expect a rational person to react (this is already an absurd question given the recipient)when person A gives 40 links with lots of data, which may or may not be correct, and person B just says, all of person A’s data is wrong “just because”? Sorry, but I’ve given more evidence than you, even if it does happen to be all wrong, which it isn’t, or at least this hasn’t yet been demonstrated. Your references are in the negative category so far.kb

    “His arrogance typifies the left.”

    Oh Christ! Here goes the “arrogant left” drivel one usually gets to when they’ve been called on their nonsense and challenged with really deep and analytical requests like “Do YOU have any references of your own?” or “Can you demonstrate that my references are weak with anything other than an opinion?” Yes, this is the kind of thing that sure “typifies the left”. And making this lame-ass assertion is pretty much typifies the right. In this case, I’m glad I’m on the left, or wherever you “think” you see me. I don’t really consider anything I’ve mentioned as left so far. But for the indoctrinated extremists, anything left of Hitler is “way to the left”. This can easily be demonstrated even using current popular activists like Michael Moore. If ANYONE thinks that he’s some osrt of way out lefty, they are probably hovering around the same realm as bin Laden or Pat Robertson, sort of alike in many ways, though I don’t recall bin Laden calling for the assassination of a foreign leader. Moore would have probably been considered slightly to the right of center not all that long ago in U.S. history when there were millions of folks in the labor movements, hundreds of labor newspapers, etc…before we became less civilized in this regard. What’S scary is that you guys aren’t the least bit aware of how extreme you’ve become. You probably perceive yourselves as just run of the mill white guys who are the norm, and don’t consider yourself extreme at all. Yes, well, this is also how most folks in Germany felt when they heard Hitler’s message, thought that this was just normal conservative patriotic talk, heckled those warning of the tendencies which were easily visible to the left, swallowed propaganda like beer on a hot day, and then stand there scratching their heads with one hand and their butt with the other wondering “How did this all happen? We didn’t know. No one told us.” and on and on….YOU, my friend, should be careful because you are going full on in the same direction.kb

    Their beliefs are so self apparent that they don’t need to vet their sources or validate their claims. They are true simply because they say it is, they believe it, and it therefore must be. Kind of turns Voltaire on his head.
    A lot of the pot calling the kettle black and all that. (oops, does that make me a racist because I said “black”. Probably in KB’s eyes it does).

    I’m still waiting on a valid source from KB that the CIA put Saddam in power. I may be just a simple grunt, but it seems to me that the CIA isn’t going to do anything to help an avowed socialist come to power anywhere in the world during the height of the cold war. Especially a socialist who belongs to a known anti-west political party, IE the Baathists’.

    KB, back up your sources, discredit ours (once you acknowledge that they may come from an actual real world view learned the hard way, paid for in blood in some cases), or shut the f up and go away.

  195. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    This cowboy “We’ve got big guns and we’re coming into town” dumbass mentality.

    If that was actually the case Iraq, except the oil fields, and all of Afghanistan, would be glass parking lots and renamed Exxon. As is is we have shed far more blood trying to stabilize Iraq and Afghanistan and advance freedom over tyranny than we did in toppling the regimes in the first place. That isn’t a dumbass mentality, that’s fighting for your beliefs.

    We presumably have the greatest, most advanced, military in the world and we can’t even get a country which was decimated by years of sanctions, which has no army, who the right claims wants us there, in spite of all polls which say otherwise, etc…to do our bidding.

    We DO have the greatest most advanced military in the world. But you see we are not trying to make Iraq do our bidding, we are allowing them to make their own decisions and help them to stand on their own. If we wanted them to do our “bidding” as you state, see above. All we have to do is unleash the dogs of war and wipe out any village that stands in our way. Thats the way your heroes do it. We do it the right way (as in morally right) and therefore the hard way. And as to the Iraqis not wanting us there, there are tons of polls and first hand accounts from boots on the ground saying otherwise.

    Yes, the U.S. is strong, but every empire in history which was built on thinking might makes right eventually failed.

    First off I disagree with your assertion that we are an empire. The only we are imperialistic is in an empire of convictions and belief. We are now trying to advance and support the cause of freedom and liberty, not our own nations financial interest. If this war was for empire only we would have stopped our advance after the Basra oil fields and leveled the rest of the country. Therefore because your basic premise that we are an empire is false, so is the rest of your premise. Lastly, we don’t believe might makes right. Liberty makes right. Our might is used to advance liberty, not only ours but the concept of liberty for all men.

    The U.S. doesn’t determined who is going to do what , to whom, and when. The U.N. does.

    Wrong. The UN does not determine who may or may not act in their own self interest or self defense. Thats called sovereignty. Like it or not nations have the right of self determination, the same as individual human beings do. I know that is contrary to your socialist beliefs, but tough. Thats why socialism is evil. It subjugates the God given right of individual humans to the collective will of the state. That is evil, period.

    Afghanistan is point in case. The U.S. determined, without Security Council agreement, to go in a start bombing based on little or no evidence. They probably could have gotten it, but they didn’t bother.

    The U.S. didn’t need anyones approval. We were attacked and had the basic right of self defense. An unprovoked attack on your nation is, always has been, and always will be casus belli. As far as evidence goes, the announced admission that Al Quaeda was responsible and the Talibans refusal to hand over the guilty parties is evidence enough.

    such as Reagan’s terrorist war against Nicaragua, where the U.S. was charged and found guilty with unlawful use of force(terrorism) by the World Court and ordered to pay over a billion dollars in reparations, etc…to which the U.S. ignored the ruling and extended the terror, and said it would no longer observe the court’s rulings or authority

    Reagans terrorist war? Thats to stupid to even respond to. If the World Court found us guilty of unlawful force for that, then why wasn’t the Soviet Union found guilty a hundred times over for it’s proxy wars of enslavement er excuse me “liberation”. Bias maybe? If any ruling body, and in referring to the World Court and the UN I use that term very loosely, is to be respected, it must be fair. And for any “ruling body” (again see above disclaimer) is to be legitimate, it must have the consent of the governed and be established to have authority by the governed. Hence the UN’s irrelevance. It has proven itself totally incompotent at best, absolutely corrupt at worst. If the member nations therefore decided to reject iot’s authority, they have that right, as do the citizens of any government have the right to alter or abolish the government when it no longer fulfill sits obligations to them. If some of those words or concepts sound a little familiar, they are from the Declaration of Independence. Hows that for a source KB.

    es, and this doesn’t mean the U.S. has any right to do anything. That’s the point of the U.N. IT decides what actions will be taken, NOT the U.S. And the “no fly zone” is itself breaking international law.kb

    First you state that the US has no right to do anything, only the UN (patently false, but lets stipulate). Then you say that the “No Fly Zone” was illegal. Which is it? The NFZ was established as part of the cease fire agreement between the coalition an Iraq after GW1, a UN sanctioned and authorized use of force to remove Iraq from the sovereign nation of Kuwait. If only the UN has the right to determine lawful actions then the NFZ was totally lawful. You’re contradicting yourself KB. And yes, I said the SOVEREIGN nation of Kuwait. Kuwait was established by decree of the victorious side of a war, duly recognized by other nations, and fully accepted into the community of nations. Thats the way it works in the real world. Other wise Germany’s claims on Poland in 1939 were legitimate, just to name one of possibly hundreds.

    n fact, the Pentagon stopped counting the people killed by its soldiers after the Vietnam war, where the numbers publicized were often inflated by field commanders

    In fact they were grossly underestimated. Official US estimates placed the enemy death toll at around 1.2 million. By the North Vietnamese own admission it was over 3 million. See “Unheralded Victory” by Mark Woodruff in which he cites the official Vietnamese statistics. So if the official admission of a communist govt is 3 million, the truer numbers are probably significantly higher.

  196. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    Oops! I didn’t finish with the rookie:

    “Their beliefs are so self apparent that they don’t need to vet their sources or validate their claims. They are true simply because they say it is, they believe it, and it therefore must be.”

    Ahhh….I love it when you guys do your damndest to try and support my points. THIS statement above is called projection in psychology. As a matter of fact it’s pretty much at textbook example. All I’ve done is to leave sources, references, etc…He, on the other hand hasn’t left a ONE that I recall. Zero. Zilch. Neither have any of his cheerleader friends. ZERO. Also, it is exactly HE who is expecting us to believe him, as I have demonstrated by showing that he hasn’t left ONE reference. Now, look at what he does. Everything HE is ACTUALLY doing, he is accusing me of doing. We leaned about this in probably the first week of psychology class in university. I guess he majored in beer or something. Sad. Really sad.kb

    “Kind of turns Voltaire on his head.”

    And he demonstrates here that he knows nothing about Voltaire, who would probably agree with everything I’ve just asserted, not to mention many other things.kb

    “A lot of the pot calling the kettle black and all that. (oops, does that make me a racist because I said “black”. Probably in KB’s eyes it does).”

    Probably not consciously rascist anyway, just ignorant. I’d say for you it would be more “The black calling the kettle pot”. Your turn.kb

    “I’m still waiting on a valid source from KB that the CIA put Saddam in power.”

    I’m still waiting for you to demonstrate that there is even one of the sources I’ve mentioned which isn’t valid. Once again, you’re saying they’re not means squat. You must demonstrate they’re not. THIS is the starting point. (Note the projection on his part again. He says he’s waiting, and yet I’ve already given him 40 references for things from A to Z and it is I who am waiting for the reply. Nothing so far.) BUt just for the fun of it, if Saddam himself said they had nothing to do with it, they said they had nothing to do with it, God said they had nothing to do with it, would this somehow in your little mind excuse our supporting him for the next 20+ years while he was killing the people you’ve started to care about so much only recently? Not one damn bit of difference. Actually, this is almost a completely irrelevant issue, whether or not it’s true, which it is, as I’ve demonstrated. Here, I’ll hold your dry hand again while you pee:
    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html

    We’ll just keep it to one siource for you to challnge as I know how that reading more than three consecutive words “makes your eyes bleed”. Now, after you’ve “tried” to read this, I don’t really care about your opinion on who said it, when they said it, why they said it, how they said it, whether or not they are a “moonbat”, a “conspiracy theorist”, or anything else. I want you to demonstrate what’s wrong with it. And if your response is worthy, even a little, I may give you the pleasure of another of my “arrogant” responses. Until then I’ll stick to responding to civil folks, or maybe another idiot from time to time just for practice.kb

    “I may be just a simple grunt”

    Geez! He even has no qualms about cutting down “simple grunts”.kb

    “but it seems to me that the CIA isn’t going to do anything to help an avowed socialist come to power anywhere in the world during the height of the cold war.”

    Yes, well, you were the one that called yourself a simple grunt. You’gve just demonstrated it with this very statement, as I’ve demonstrated with the link I left a few lines up. You know, it’s one thing if someone just doesn’t know because they don’t know. But to act so arrogant yourself as if you do(another projection incidentally)is what bothers me most about you clowns. I mean, I don’t go to a physics blog and start screaming about Einstein really being a woman who sucked at math, was Catholic, and played on the Chicago Bulls when she wasn’t playing banjo at het country music show in Branson Missouri. And then, when one of the psysicists demonstrates, with references, sources, etc…that I was wrong, keep insisting on it. I believe there is a problem here which may be a little too much to be working on over the internet. So, as a favor, I’m recommending hitting the couch as soon as possible, 5 days a week if possible, for at least 10 years, followed by 20 more years of reading, oh, and this doesn’t mean only things from the right, or wherever you guys get your data, which has yet to be determined, and nice long walks around a large lake wearing a lifejacket over your Polo straitjacket. No crossing bridges either.kb

    “Especially a socialist who belongs to a known anti-west political party, IE the Baathists’.”

    See above.kb

    “KB, back up your sources”

    “discredit ours”

    Where are they?kb

    “(once you acknowledge that they may come from an actual real world view learned the hard way, paid for in blood in some cases), or shut the f up and go away.”

    I’ll acknowledge nothing until you’ve demonstrated that one word I’ve uttered is incorrect. And don’t give me any pseudo-patriotic crap about paid for in blood. The only blood you should be worrying about is the blood on your own hands from supporting Saddam, as well as MANY other monsters, as I have also demonstrated. As far as “shutting the F up and going away” I’d have to sit down right here, laugh, and keeping making you look like an idiot, with your assistance, of course. When you guys talk like this your right-wing anger just shines right through. I saw a very good documentary which reminds me of you guys called “Blood in the Face”. When you’re renting those 35 porn movies tonight, which you do almost nightly, you should go way out on a limb and see this documentary made about just your type.kb

  197. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    You haven’t challenged a line from any of these “biased” sources, so whoopie!

    And you haven’t backed up your claims that we, simply because we believe differently than you are “brainwashed by propaganda”. We have rejected your sources as credible, and not because we haven’t read them, we have and found them to be false and biased, and working from preconceived notions that we reject as factual. Your sources validity have been challenged, prove their validity or stop using them and use another.

    I don’t really consider anything I’ve mentioned as left so far.

    You really should reread some of it then.

    2)You demonstrate with you own sources, and as I said before this doesn’t mean your opinion, I mean, actual sources where you’re getting your information.

    Opinions are formed through life experience and knowledge. This a forum for debate and opinions are the heart of that. Otherwise just quoting “sources” is a purely academic exercise. BTW, if opinions are not valid, then neither is any of Chomskys writings. Or any other writings for that matter. Ideas are what is debated, not sources.

    But for the indoctrinated extremists, anything left of Hitler is “way to the left”.

    hate to break this to ya there KB, but Hitler was a socialist. Remember National SOCIALIST Workers Party.
    Here, http://russp.org/nazis.htm

    they are probably hovering around the same realm as bin Laden or Pat Robertson, sort of alike in many ways, though I don’t recall bin Laden calling for the assassination of a foreign leader.

    Then you really haven’t been paying attention.

    Moore would have probably been considered slightly to the right of center

    :lol_wp: :lol_tb: :lol_wp: That made my entire f’ng year!

    Yes, well, this is also how most folks in Germany felt when they heard Hitler’s message, thought that this was just normal conservative patriotic talk, heckled those warning of the tendencies which were easily visible to the left, swallowed propaganda like beer on a hot day, and then stand there scratching their heads with one hand and their butt with the other wondering “How did this all happen? We didn’t know. No one told us.” and on and on….YOU, my friend, should be careful because you are going full on in the same direction.kb

    You’ve called Che a freedom fighter, praised Castro, Stalin, Pol Pot and Bin Laden, and made excuses for every vile act of Hussein, and you are going to warn ME of a slippery slope of propaganda. You are arguing FOR ideologies that have murdered close to 150 million people last century and are going to criticize the US for defending and advancing freedom and liberty. KB, you have long since crossed the line from free speech and dissent into outright sedition and treason. Just pick up a fucking AK47 already, or better yet strap on an explosive belt and martyr yourself, just fail in killing innocent “infidels” when you do.

  198. Demosthenes Comment by Demosthenes

    And the “no fly zone” is itself breaking international law.

    Somebody should have mentioned that fact to the UN, since they authorized the NFZ in the first place. UNSCR
    688
    to be precise. As far as the legality of the war is concerned, you’ll discover that the “first gulf war” never actually ended. Saddam and his generals were told that they would need to meet three criteria before the war would officially end…disarm, complete disclosure of WMD programs and cessation of agressive acts against the Kurds. Of course, Saddam never did comply with any of those conditions, hence the implementation of the no-fly zones. It should also be noted that fire was regularly exchanged on both sides during this time. In the end, the war settled into a state of permanent cease-fire, but it was never “officially” over.

  199. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    I guess he majored in beer or something.

    Actually I majored in putting a 5.56mm round through a gnats ass at 500 yards in the real world instead of being mind buggered by some leftist prof. Thats where my beliefs come from, the real world.

    And he demonstrates here that he knows nothing about Voltaire, who would probably agree with everything I’ve just asserted, not to mention many other things.kb

    Proof? Sounds like that damn opinion thing you hate so much there KB.

    I’m still waiting for you to demonstrate that there is even one of the sources I’ve mentioned which isn’t valid. Once again, you’re saying they’re not means squat.

    You saying they are valid means squat.

    Actually, this is almost a completely irrelevant issue, whether or not it’s true, which it is, as I’ve demonstrated. Here, I’ll hold your dry hand again while you pee:
    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html

    You cite as proof an opinion piece?

    Probably not consciously rascist anyway, just ignorant.

    Making a basic assumption that I’m white and racist there KB? Got any links for proof?

    Geez! He even has no qualms about cutting down “simple grunts”.kb

    I AM a “simple grunt” and proud to be. Come down to the south and you’ll understand the context of that there particular saying.

  200. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    Well, I actually already have on many occasions

    Bullshit.  You’ve done nothing but spew methane from your keyboard, suck Chompshitsky’s dick and post worthless, non-credible links and call it “proof” and insult our regulars here, some of whom have served in our military with distinction.

    Moreover, you’ve completely - and I would say deliberately,  had you any brains to speak of - fucked up the formatting of your comments so that few can tell what you’re saying as opposed to what you’re quoting.

    And  you’ve wasted Emperor Misha’s bandwidth in the process.  You’re damned lucky your ass hasn’t been tossed out of here yet.  But I daresay you’re square on that path.

    such as eliciting this very response from you and proving my point.

    You haven’t elicited shit, nor have you proven shit.  Except, of course, that you’re a fuckwit who talks a lot and says nothing.

    Did you care to make an argument of some sort or were you just going to sit there, cry and whine that I’m wrong without giving any evidence, call names, and pretend that you’ve accomplished something other than further demonstrating your ignorance? You see, I HAVE given evidence for most everything I’ve mentioned thus far(especially your ignorance). Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong. But you have done zero to prove either one, including the very comment above demonstrating, yet again, that you’ve failed to do anything at all beyong scratching your butt. Every try knitting? I mean, why are you here?

    A lot of us have been asking that question about you.  And I anticipate a resolution to the question before too much longer.

    You have offered nothing thus far. And you had the nerve to call me a troll? That’s funny.

    I’ll call you what I damned fucking well please.  Complain to The Management™ if you don’t like it, pussy.

    In fact, I’ll make it easy for you. Here’s his email address.

  201. Management™ Comment by Management™ UNITED STATES

    I’ll acknowledge nothing until you’ve demonstrated that one word I’ve uttered is incorrect. And don’t give me any pseudo-patriotic crap about paid for in blood. The only blood you should be worrying about is the blood on your own hands from supporting Saddam, as well as MANY other monsters, as I have also demonstrated. As far as “shutting the F up and going away” I’d have to sit down right here, laugh, and keeping making you look like an idiot, with your assistance, of course. When you guys talk like this your right-wing anger just shines right through. I saw a very good documentary which reminds me of you guys called “Blood in the Face”. When you’re renting those 35 porn movies tonight, which you do almost nightly, you should go way out on a limb and see this documentary made about just your type.kb

    That’s it.  Vacation time for you, son.

  202. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Pity. If the wee li’l lad/lass/thing coulda stayed on topic, he mighta learned something…

  203. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Pity. If the wee li’l lad/lass/thing coulda stayed on topic, he mighta learned something…

    Like how not to get banned at the very least, right Guido?

    I’m still trying to figure out him/her/it calling me a “rookie”. Should I be “insulted” or should I be laughing?

    Hey Spats, loved the link to management, a thing of beauty.

  204. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Like how not to get banned at the very least, right Guido?

    Well, yeah, that would be a start, I suppose.

    I’m still trying to figure out him/her/it calling me a “rookie”. Should I be “insulted” or should I be laughing?

    Hmm… Well, lessee, is he talking “rookie” in terms of “Village Bathhouse” behaviour? ‘Cause I’m quite happy to keep my rookie status where that sort of thing is concerned…

  205. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Hmm… Well, lessee, is he talking “rookie” in terms of “Village Bathhouse” behaviour? ‘Cause I’m quite happy to keep my rookie status where that sort of thing is concerned…

    Yeah, compared to KB, George Michael is a rookie at that. And I’m with ya 100%, I want to keep my rookie status as well!

  206. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Just outta curiousity, who turned on The Freak Magnet in the “History Keeps Repeating Itself” thread?

    Or do ya think it’s from the Vanity Fair deal, still?

  207. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    It’s a full moon Guido, the moonbats are a flockin.

  208. LC Ranger 6 Comment by LC Ranger 6 UNITED STATES

    That’s it. Vacation time for you, son.

    ’bout fucking time. It was making cb look interesting.

  209. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    cb was more coherent than KB most of the time Ranger. Definitely more concise!

  210. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I UNITED STATES

    Just outta curiousity, who turned on The Freak Magnet in the “History Keeps Repeating Itself” thread?

    Or do ya think it’s from the Vanity Fair deal, still?

    Actually, it’s much more simple than that. The post you mention got linked by the Daou Report (thanks to LC & IB EL Frederick for the tip), so we ought to have a blessing of fun little trolls pop by for a while.

    Well, we can always hope. They’re so much fun to poke and prod.

  211. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Well, we can always hope. They’re so much fun to poke and prod.

    Not to mention slap and stomp. But it’s kinda hard to get all of the little bits and pieces out of yer bootsoles afterwards…

  212. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Brillo pads work quite well Guido!

  213. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    So do pressure washers. Only problem is, I have a pair of boots with siped soles that I wear from time to time, and they are IMPOSSIBLE to get nasty things out of…

  214. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Oh well, then wear them as a badge of honor. I can see ya in a bar chattin up some lovely lass.

    “Yeah that brownish red streak at the rear of my left sole there was a moonbat name KB I stomped in a vicious fight back in aught seven on the Rott. Would you like another rooffie er I mean drink my dear”. :smoke_tb:

  215. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    Hey Spats, loved the link to management, a thing of beauty.

    (deep bow) Thanky.  I thought about putting BC’s addy in there, but he’s got some new vids in the Imperial Dungeon Game Room™, and the Jawas haven’t brought me my brain bleach yet, so…

  216. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Yeh, BC without brain bleach is a dangerous thing.

  217. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Actually, it’s much more simple than that. The post you mention got linked by the Daou Report

    Oddly enough, I first came here following a link from a moonbat site. (One of those, “Go and SEE what those Evil Right-Wing Rethuglican Deathbeasts are DOING!” sort of articles, ya know…) They knew not what they did.

  218. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Yeh, BC without brain bleach is a dangerous thing.

    Hell, Crunchie! BC WITH brain bleach is a threat to the entire system!!!

  219. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Sounds like they found ya a home there eh Guido?

  220. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Sounds like they found ya a home there eh Guido?

    That they did, that they did. Makes life a little more colorful, it does, it does!

  221. Unregistered Comment by kb JAPAN

    [We can dump ‘em as fast as you can create ‘em, asswipe.  -The Management™]

    KB has now been officially banned from this site.

  222. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    I’m still waiting for ONE challenge.kb

    The re-read #132, 142, 175, 196, 198, and 200, just for a few.

    I know that you’d love to take a punch if I were there, or so that’s what you’re thinking now, but I’d actually probably enjoy watching you pee your Hello Kitty panties when we met.

    Wouldn’t be no me takin’ a punch there KB. Two hits, me hittin you and you hittin the floor. I’ve got scars that are tougher than you.

    But tell ya what. If we ever do meet I’ll take off my gun and uniform just to make it fair, mkay. I’ll even give you a free shot. I enjoy being slapped like a girl, hell I usually pay for it! Would be nice to get it for free for once. :lol_wp:

  223. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    Just as I said it would end….he just can’t quit. This boy seriously needs to get a life and some time doing something besides chasing links. He proved nothing, stated much and accomplished even less. His statements of proof rang hollow……..just a dman shame these people can’t wise up and quit hating themselves, this country and people. I oppose his kind and always will. But unlike him, I’m not chasing links, I’m firing bullets at the range. And I’ll put my .45 up against ANY link……..

  224. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Damn management, thats some kind of new record there I think.

  225. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952 UNITED STATES

    Jesus, Crunchie…… :lol_wp: Cleaning coffee off of my monitor

  226. Management™ Comment by Management™ UNITED STATES

    Damn management, thats some kind of new record there I think.

    Management™ is not in a terribly good mood tonight, and is not suffering fools well. 

  227. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    Ya know, Crunchie, I, personally, outgrew the need to punch idiots a long damned time ago. Something that leftists do not seem to understand, is that when you grow up, you have no need to.

    Now, I believe in only inflicting damage on the idjits that are actual threats and NEED it. And kb chew toy is definitely not a threat.

    BTW, this puts this thread over the top into Number One status, if my memory is not totally shot…

  228. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    I’ll send ya a new one there Caveman.

  229. maxxdog Comment by maxxdog UNITED STATES

    WTF were we talking about?

  230. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone UNITED STATES

    WTF were we talking about?

    Well, here recently, it’s been a discussion of displays of conspicuous stupidity in a public place, to wit: “kb at The Rott.”

  231. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon UNITED STATES

    Looks like it’s time for a universal ban on the letters k and b, brought to you today by the keyboard of doom…

    RH

  232. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    “If you knew about Tiberius Caesar’s disdain for the Senate and the “nobles” who thought themselves better than everyone else, and you had the brain power to realise that it is leftist fuckheads today that think they are better than everyone else, you would then see why I chose Tiberius.”

    And this very statement, once agin, demonstrates my point. We can push the “senate” argument aside for a second given that I had been under the impression that the Republicans had controlled the Senate up until recently, and many times in the past. But if I knew anything about history…uhh…I wouldn’t know this, to use your logic.

    Hey dumbass, Tiberius is referring to the ROMAN from whence he takes his nickname. You are a stupid sack aren’t you. Further proof that reading COMPREHENSION is not your strong suit.

  233. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Tiberius

    Thanks for fielding that one, Crunchie.

    Of course I can see how it would confuse someone - after all, I am sure there are lots of Tiberius’ dealing with the US Senate….

    What a fucking moron.

    But you better watch out - he will tell you he is 8 feet tall and made of solid rock and trains 15 hours a day in the gym and is a master of every martial art known to man

  234. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Damn, I didn’t even get to finish reading KB’s last screed before it disappeared entirely. Yup, Management is in a “foul” mood tonight! :lol_tb:

  235. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Tiberius re 233, no problem, even though I screwed up the blockquotes. Must have read to much of KB’s crap.

  236. BC Imperial Torturer Comment by BC Imperial Torturer UNITED STATES

    The little Nazi-loving, Che-fellating fucktard is gone. Thatisall.

  237. Agent Orange Comment by Agent Orange MALAYSIA

    Gee, you could’ve waited until I ran through his list of “dictators whom the US supported”.
    I found it exceptionally funny that Raoul Cedras was on the list. The one who was so friendly to the US, Clinton had him kicked out and put Aristide back in?
    And Papa Doc (Francois Duvalier), too. For a dictator installed by the US (note the sarcasm), he sure seemed fond of hexing US Presidents (Kennedy).

    Many of the others were opposed by the US at at least one point during their rule. Rafael Trujillo was even assassinated using CIA-provided weapons, and Manuel Noriega deposed during Just Cause.

    In fact, I’m mildly surprised he didn’t list Hugo Chavez as a US-supported dictator. :lol_wp:

    Now I know why I can count the number of .org sites I trust on one hand…

  238. Unregistered Comment by liberalchick

    What’S scary is that you guys aren’t the least bit aware of how extreme you’ve become. You probably perceive yourselves as just run of the mill white guys who are the norm, and don’t consider yourself extreme at all. Yes, well, this is also how most folks in Germany felt when they heard Hitler’s message, thought that this was just normal conservative patriotic talk, heckled those warning of the tendencies which were easily visible to the left, swallowed propaganda like beer on a hot day, and then stand there scratching their heads with one hand and their butt with the other wondering “How did this all happen? We didn’t know. No one told us.” and on and on….YOU, my friend, should be careful because you are going full on in the same direction.kb

    KB, you hit the nail on the head with that one.

  239. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    Liberalchick, KB spent the majority of his screed here defending murderous tyrants like Pol Pot, Stalin, Hussein, Sandino, et al. To be lectured by him that WE are extremists rang more than a little hollow. If it is extreme to disagree with the Muslim belief that we should be killed, then yes we are extreme. If it is extreme to be happy that a murdering tyrant has met justice at the hands of his victims, then yes we are extreme.

    As far as his/her/it’s stating that Nazis were conservatives and the left was anti-Nazi etc., please head over to “History repeats itself” and read some of the comments there about how Hitler and the Nazis were actually leftist socialists.

    Here, a few of the more pertinent items.

    http://jonjayray.batcave.net/hitler.html

    http://russp.org/nazis.htm

    and this

    Why Are We Socialists?
    by Joseph Goebbels

    We are socialists because we see in socialism, that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state.

    Socialism is the doctrine of liberation for the working class. It promotes the rise of the fourth class and its incorporation in the political organism of our Fatherland, and is inextricably bound to breaking the present slavery and the regaining of German freedom. Socialism therefore is not merely a matter of the oppressed class, but a matter for everyone, for freeing the German people from slavery is the goal of contemporary policy. Socialism gains its true form only through a total combat brotherhood with the forward-striving energies of a newly awakened nationalism. Without nationalism it is nothing, a phantom, a mere theory, a castle in the sky, a book. With it it is everything, the future, freedom, the Fatherland!

    The sin of liberal thinking was to overlook socialism’s nation-building strengths, thereby allowing its energies to go in anti-national directions. The sin of Marxism was to degrade socialism into a question of wages and the stomach, putting it in conflict with the state and its national existence. An understanding of both these facts leads us to a new sense of socialism, which sees its nature as nationalistic, state-building, liberating and constructive.

    The bourgeois is about to leave the historical stage. In its place will come the class of productive workers, the working class, that has been up until today oppressed. It is beginning to fulfill its political mission. It is involved in a hard and bitter struggle for political power as it seeks to become part of the national organism. The battle began in the economic realm; it will finish in the political. It is not merely a matter of pay, not only a matter of the number of hours worked in a day-though we may never forget that these are an essential, perhaps even the most significant part of the socialist platform-but it is much more a matter of incorporating a powerful and responsible class in the state, perhaps even to make it the dominant force in the future politics of the Fatherland. The bourgeois does not want to recognize the strength of the working class. Marxism has forced it into a straitjacket that will ruin it. While the working class gradually disintegrates in the Marxist front, bleeding itself dry, the bourgeois and Marxism have agreed on the general lines of capitalism, and see their task now to protect and defend it in various ways, often concealed.

    We are socialists because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces. We have no intention of begging for that right. Incorporating him in the state organism is not only a critical matter for him, but for the whole nation. The question is larger than the eight-hour day. It is a matter of forming a new state consciousness that includes every productive citizen. Since the political powers of the day are neither willing nor able to create such a situation, socialism must be fought for. It is a fighting slogan both inwardly and outwardly. It is aimed domestically at the bourgeois parties and Marxism at the same time, because both are sworn enemies of the coming workers’ state. It is directed abroad at all powers that threaten our national existence and thereby the possibility of the coming socialist national state.

    Socialism is possible only in a state that is united domestically and free internationally. The bourgeois and Marxism are responsible for failing to reach both goals, domestic unity and international freedom. No matter how national and social these two forces present themselves, they are the sworn enemies of a socialist national state.

    We must therefore break both groups politically. The lines of German socialism are sharp, and our path is clear.

    We are against the political bourgeois, and for genuine nationalism!

    We are against Marxism, but for true socialism!

    We are for the first German national state of a socialist nature!

    We are for the National Socialist German Workers Party!

  240. Unregistered Comment by liberalchick UNITED STATES

    Crunchie, once again, you completely miss the point (as KB often pointed out).

    He wasn’t comparing you conservatives to Nazis. He was comparing your blind acceptance of what the government feeds you, your completely misguided patriotism and optimism in the face of real crisis, to that of the German citizens during the rise of Hitler. And he was spot-on on that front.

    Socialism was the call of the Nazi’s, but socialism didn’t require Jews to be excuted by the millions, and socialism didn’t require global domination. Socialism was just a front for Hitler to control the people and try to control the world.

    Just because the KKK invokes Christianity to support it’s message, does this mean that Christianity is to blame for their deeds? No, and neither is socialism to blame for Nazi atrocities.

  241. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I UNITED STATES

    He wasn’t comparing you conservatives to Nazis. He was comparing your blind acceptance of what the government feeds you, your completely misguided patriotism and optimism in the face of real crisis, to that of the German citizens during the rise of Hitler. And he was spot-on on that front.

    Oh he was?

    I suggest you browse this site for more articles pertaining to our alleged “blind acceptance of what the government feeds us”, then return to the conversation.

    Because, frankly, until such a time, my time would be better spent scratching my balls.

  242. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    liberalchick

    He wasn’t comparing you conservatives to Nazis.

    Yes he did, several times in fact. Just re-read his comments, I know thats asking a lot, but he called us and compared us to Nazis several times.

    , your completely misguided patriotism and optimism in the face of real crisis, to that of the German citizens during the rise of Hitler.

    Our love of country is not misguided. We don’t blame America first and moan over why “the peace loving Muslims” hate us. We recognize evil for what it is and have chosen sides. Liberals such as KB won’t outright choose a side. They will just try and undercut the last and greatest hope for mankind, the U.S., but don’t have the testicular fortitude to go all the way and actually pick up an AK 47. As for our optimism in the face of a real crisis, what would you prefer we do, piss and moan and give up because all is lost? Hell no. That’s not what made this country great.

    Socialism was the call of the Nazi’s, but socialism didn’t require Jews to be excuted by the millions, and socialism didn’t require global domination. Socialism was just a front for Hitler to control the people and try to control the world.

    Again here;

    http://jonjayray.batcave.net/hitler.html

    http://russp.org/nazis.htm

  243. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie UNITED STATES

    liberalchick

    Just because the KKK invokes Christianity to support it’s message, does this mean that Christianity is to blame for their deeds? No, and neither is socialism to blame for Nazi atrocities.

    Nice attempt at a dodge, but doesn’t hold up. The atrocities committed by the Nazis are at the very core of socialism, just as the murder of 100+ million people by socialists’ last century are at the heart of socialism. Socialism subjects the will and well being of the individual to the needs and desires of the state. Mass murder is the logical, inescapable culmination of that subjegation. Read the links I provided. They state the socialist justification of not only the Shoa, but of all the socialist holocausts perpetrated.

    BTW RE: “The Final Solution of the Jewish Question” as the Nazis called the Shoa, want to guess who originally posed the “Jewish Question”?

    Can you say Karl Marx? I knew you could.

  244. LC Ranger 6 Comment by LC Ranger 6 UNITED STATES

    *sigh* the thread that won’t die.

    I just hope liberalchick has her pit hair braided. We don’t need to be sweeping up balls of tangled pit hair once she staggers out.

    Socialism is the doctrine of liberation for the working class

    I believe this sentiment used to decorate many a gate during WWII in the German form: “Arbeit Machts Frei”

  245. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    The little Nazi-loving, Che-fellating fucktard is gone. Thatisall.

    Well, he is now.

    I’ve just completed the installation of a new banning plugin that should do the trick. Now, anyone who is banned here will get the following message.

    Take a close look at who is in charge of the “complaint department”.