We Need To Stop Playing At War
Posted by: Emperor Misha I in Imperial Thoughts, The Empire at War12:02 am
(I’m going to go on for quite a while here, so if you’re not up to it, feel free to ignore my mindless ramblings. As if I could actually force you to read it in the first place).
Just read that a former ambassador of the Taliban, Rahmatullah Hashemi, is currently a Yale student on a student visa.
The urge to bang my head against the table is powerful indeed.
This cretin, this subhuman medievalist was a ranking member of a terrorist regime that embraced torture, oppression, terrorism and fighting without regard for the laws and customs of war, and he’s studying at Yale now? Based on his history alone, he should’ve been apprehended, put before a tribunal and promptly hanged, yet he’s a freshman at Yale.
We’re not serious about this war. Sure, this Hashemi business is a minor thing, but if you look at all of the other half-measures and failures to act decisively that have ensured that we’re now stuck in the fifth year of a war with no end in sight, it’s emblematic of our complete and utter failure to take this whole thing seriously.
War isn’t something that one should enter into unless one really means it. Really, really means it. It’s dirty, dangerous and costly business but, most of all, you can’t win a war unless you’re serious about it. Hostilities might cease once everybody get sick and tired of it, but that’s not an end to the problem, it’s not even a conclusion to the conflict, it’s merely a ceasefire.
Witness the Romans. It took three wars for them to finish the Punic problem once and for all. Not until they threw out all the stops and razed Carthage to the ground did the problem go away and nobody have heard of the Carthaginians since.
Witness Prussian militarism. Two world wars it took to finally, decisively convince the Germans that aggression was a bad idea. November 11, 1918 was nothing but a ceasefire, thanks to Wilson and his limp wrist. It wasn’t until May of 1945, with Germany reduced to rubble, that the message sunk in. Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin and the Ruhr did to the Germans what Carthage did to the Carthaginians. Hiroshima and Nagasaki conveyed the point wonderfully to the Japanese.
Don’t go to war on a whim, but once you do decide to go to war, you throw everything including the kitchen sink at the enemy and you keep pounding him, brutally and mercilessly, until every last surviving soul on his side, from the very young to the very old, realize that nothing but swift and total death and destruction awaits them if they resist.
You deploy every means, every weapon in your arsenal against him without a second’s hesitation until he gets the message, which is “you have this choice and this choice only: Unconditional surrender or certain death.”
You let him know that those are his only choices, that there will be no negotiations, no “defeat with honor”, no lulls in the fighting during which he can regroup and prepare for the next onslaught and no “safe zones.”
If it’s something that aids him in his fight, it’s a legitimate target and it will be destroyed. Immediately, completely and without pause.
If he wishes to avoid this, the solution is simple: Surrender unconditionally.
After the uprising in Fallujah, that city should’ve been razed to the ground. It should’ve been razed to the ground immediately and unhesitatingly, in exactly the same fashion that you’d squash a cockroach that you happened to see crawling by. Without emotion and without pause.
The secret to winning, decisively and conclusively, is to make the enemy aware that resistance brings destruction, that there is no alternative to unconditional surrender that involves him still breathing.
Those who submit unconditionally must be treated generously and gently, those who don’t must be treated ruthlessly, mercilessly and without a second’s hesitation. Only when your enemy truly understands that those are the only options facing him will he cease to be a problem and you can declare victory.
No, he won’t respect you in the morning, but that’s not the objective of war. The objective of war is to win. Everything else is secondary at best. He might even hate you for what you did to him, but that’s also completely and utterly irrelevant, as long as he fears you or, more precisely, fears the inevitable consequences of resistance more than he hates your guts.
War is not a popularity contest, and anybody pretending to fight one as if it is would do well to stay at home and play with his goldfish instead.
To defeat an enemy, to defeat him in a meaningful and lasting manner that is more than just a temporary lull in the fighting, you must completely and utterly break his will to fight. In order to do this you must hit him with overwhelming force, and you must hit him again and again with everything in your arsenal, sparing no expense and shunning no sacrifice, shirking from no action until the very sight of your armed forces fills him with fear and that sinking feeling in your stomach telling you that you’re a dead man.
That’s how you win a war, and if you’re not in it to win, you shouldn’t be in it at all.
Of course, now that we’re already in it, we don’t have the option to stay at home anymore. Once you’re in a war, there are only two possible outcomes for you: Victory or defeat. Defeat is not an option, or at least it shouldn’t be. Don’t let anybody convince you that there is a “third way”, because there isn’t one. Once you’ve engaged the enemy, there can only be one winner.
You can do like Bush 41 and pretend that you’ve won without finishing the fight, but that’s only delaying the inevitable, as we all know by now.
So we need to get serious.
We have to, for the very simple reason that the alternative is defeat. Possibly a delayed defeat, G-d knows for how many years we can put it off, but defeat nonetheless.
Can we? Can we possibly mobilize the will to put our nation on a war footing and take the measures necessary to transform this laughable parody of a “war” into a true fight with the object of winning?
I don’t want to bash Bush unnecessarily, so I’ll be quite frank and say that I’m not sure that we can whether he wants to or not, and he can’t do anything without our support.
Let’s be honest here. He can only fight with what he’s got, and when you’re stuck with Baby Boomers and the MTV generation, you’re in a piss-poor position to pick a fight with anybody but the fwench. It’s a G-d given miracle that we have as many fine and brave soldiers as we do given those circumstances, and I cannot thank or admire them enough, but the ones they left behind are a bunch of soft, whiny pissants. I’m not sure we deserve to have soldiers like the ones we’re blessed with, but we ought to thank whatever deity we happen to believe in that we do. We are a lazy, self-indulgent people with the attention span of a hummingbird on acid. If it can’t be resolved in the time span between two commercial blocks, the majority of us will lose interest and start looking for the remote.
I’m not sure that we can now, but I am sure that we’ll have to and that we will reach the point where we can eventually.
I’m sure of that for the very simple reason that if we don’t, we’ll be hit by an attack that’ll make 9/11 look like a footnote in the history books yet to be written. Don’t delude yourselves. Our enemies aren’t going to go away. They’ve been at this for centuries, and they’re not going to stop just because we decide that we’ve had enough and go home. They’ll just follow. It amazes me that so many didn’t learn that lesson after 9/11, but there you have it: The vast majority of people are ignorant fools and a complete waste of oxygen.
We’ll be hit in a fashion that’ll make us all wish that we could go back to the “good old days” of 9/11/2001.
And then we’ll finally find the will to do what has to be done. And if not then, then when the next attack comes, or the next one.
Remember: It took the Romans three wars against Carthage to reach that conclusion, and they weren’t exactly known as the most lenient and PC of peoples.
We’ll get there.
I just wish that we could skip the bit where we get blown to pieces enough to actually wake up and do what has to be done, because I love this nation and her people dearly and the carnage is so completely, bloody senseless when you consider the fact that we’ll arrive at the same end result.
So that’s what I pray for every night. That some miracle happens and we decide, as a nation, as a people, that there’s a job to be done and that the sooner we get on with it, the less of us will have to die.
The dice are cast, there’s no turning back now, we have to win.
The only question is how much we want it to hurt before we do.
Thatisall.
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I notice you managed to make it through without mentioning the Dubai Ports World deal. how serious are we about security if we would even consider turning our ports over to a foreign government — any foreign government?
Bush and company would have us believe that they have looked at every angle on this deal and feel that all security issues have been dealt with.
I wonder, if this is such a secure and wonderful thing, then why not disband Bush’s secret service detail and have DPW handle that for him as well?
March 1st, 2006 at 12:18 amYep, Dave, the Dubai Deal would be another perfect example, but I had to limit myself or I could’ve gone on for another six pages just listing all of them.
Besides, I didn’t want this to turn into yet another discussion of that or any other of the examples. It’s not really the point of the post. Fallujah, Al-Sadr, Dubai, Hashemi, yadda yadda yadda, they’re all just symptoms of the disease:
We’re not taking this seriously.
But good point nonetheless.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:23 amWe are not fighting this war with any seriousness, and here is the proof: we currently allow people, in this country, to completely undermine our efforts. We allow them to give aid and comfort to our enemies.
We allow the open brodcasting of anti-war propaganda which does nothing but weaken our resolve and support those who would slaughter us by the millions.
Lincoln fought a war of survival. FDR fought a war of survival. In both cases, everything in society was geared towards that effort: supplies and information. If we are ever going to fight and win this war against islamic facism, we are going to have to find the resolve to deal with the domestic 5th column as well as the enemy half way across the globe.
Personally, I fear that my children are going to live in an America that is less safe and less free, because my generation didn’t have the sack to do what needed to be done. The baby-boomer generation is the worst this country has ever produced. They are spoiled and self-centered, and the sooner they get out of the way, the better.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:25 amOh, and Misha, I love your understanding of history. I agree with your take that the first Gulf War was akin to The First Punic War, and this is similar to Rome’s war against Hannibal.
I believe that it’s going to take a nuclear attack in New York or Washington to force us to finally deal with the situation. I wish it were not so, but I don’t see it playing out any other way.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:30 amUnfortunately for us, an all too sizable percentage of the country thinks Dhimmi Khadr had the right ideas when it came to dealing with our gathering enemy.
This began the day Khadr’s administration allowed Ruhollah Khomeini to get on the plane in Fwance and return to Iran without being firmly ensconced in a protective casket.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:41 amThanks. You’re too kind. I never thought much of it. After all, it’s all right there in the books for those who care to read it.
Sure, the names and the weaponry changes, but those are mere details. The core concepts and the solutions never change. They never will.
What drives me to despair is how many people are unwilling and/or incapable of learning from thousands of years of history. It’s as if they think that mankind underwent some sort of miraculous evolutionary change along the way, rendering all of the old hard-earned lessons moot.
Military strategy is the oldest discipline we know, it started when caveman A decided that caveman B’s cave had a nicer view, yet people still waste time, treasury and lives thinking that they can re-invent the wheel.
It’s infuriating, it’s senseless and it makes me wonder if G-d’s decision to create us was such a good idea after all. Dogs have a better understanding of the world we live in and the immutable laws that govern it than most of us do.
And you’re absolutely right about the second part. We’re not ready yet and it’ll cost us dearly before we wake up from our slumber and become ready.
My only consolation is that I have no doubt that we will reach that point.
But oh, what I wouldn’t give for us to be able to skip the step when we’re kicked out of our beds.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:57 amWhy does the fact a known Taliban member is studying at Yale fail to surprise me?
March 1st, 2006 at 1:26 amOh that’s right..NOTHING the Politically Correct assholes running things in this nuthouse called America do surprises me anymore.
You’re right.
If the morons in charge now had been in power after 1945, Josef Mengele would’ve been given a professorate at Johns Hopkins.
It pisses me off to the point where I want to strangle somebody.
March 1st, 2006 at 1:30 amBut we’re Oh So ENLIGHTENED here in the good ol USA, dont’cha know?
True “enlightenment” is only going to come to most of the sheeple, momma’s boy liberals, and to the rat bastards running the show in D.C. when a major US city gets turned into a smoking radioactive ruin…
March 1st, 2006 at 1:44 amOf course, it could be that this former Talibandit has convincingly renounced Talibastardy; I’m not at all familiar with the case.
March 1st, 2006 at 2:37 amIt’s times like this that I’m reminded of Lt. Colonel Grossman and his discussion of sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs.
In summary, for those who havn’t had the pleasure of reading it yet, it goes kinda like this.
People fit one of three general categories, sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. The vast majority are sheep. Simple creatures with neither intent of or capacity for violence.
The small remaining minority fills one of the other two billets, and the two appear very similar, especially to a sheep. Sheep don’t like sheepdogs, generally speaking, because the dog is a constant reminder of the wolf’s presence.
Cops, Soldiers, and other members of what, for lack of a more descriptive term I’ll call the warrior class, are sheepdogs. This group the capacity for terrible violence yet has a strong desire to protect the sheep and its own ranks.
Wolves only have capacity for violence. They were absent from class when compassion was being discussed. And they are always lurking. Always.
You can’t reason with a wolf. No discussions or concessions or wishful thinking on the part of the sheep make it go away. The only solution is for a dog to fucking rip the wolf’s head off.
Everywhere I look these days it seems like I see more and more sheep. They’re multiplying, and many are even actively burying their heads in the sand instead of merely wandering about in an oblivious condition white the whole time. Many are contemplating how best to muzzle the dog so they don’t have to listen to all that damn barking.
A truly outstanding post, Misha. You have a rare gift with words. Reading a piece like this gives me the will to put the gun and vest back on in the morning and start another shift, knowing that there’s at least one other person out there who truly gets it. Thank you, sir.
March 1st, 2006 at 3:22 amIt’s obviously too late to shut the gate.We’re going to need more wranglers.
March 1st, 2006 at 4:17 amHowever much I admire the decisiveness in roman warfare, I do not, in any way support the idea of transforming the rules of war to accommodate the roman rules of engagement. Doing so would be the same as deliberately breaking almost every directive in the Geneva Convention.
You are a keen historian so I recon that you are aware of the atrocities committed by the roman military machine. The carnage was of course accepted at the time, but today I would like to think that we distinguish between troops and non-combatants. It is true that the Romans often spared the lives of the civilian population, but they never recognised it as their obligation to do so – they did it only if a profit was in sight – such as selling them as slaves. Furthermore the supreme ruler in deciding the fate of those captured, soldiers or not, was the commander of the winning legions. He was the manifestation of the power wielded by the roman senate. Perhaps not the best person to decide, as he most likely, has just lost several men to the vanquished, enraging him beyond the edge of sane decision-making.
I do believe that you were just making a point, and it is well taken. War is serious and should be dealt with accordingly. I do not think that you would actually approve of applying roman rules of war to today’s society.
Well they did that in the second Punic war, after the battle of Zama in 202 BC between Publius Cornelius Scipio and Hannibal Barca. Rome took away the Cartheginian possessions in Spain as spoils of war. Still Carthage managed to rise again and the third Punic war broke out in 149 BC, lasted for three years, and not until Carthage was made a Roman province in 146 BC did the problem cease to exist. It was however not the destruction of Carthage that ended the Punic wars, it was the effect of being turned into a roman province with a permanent roman garrison.
When considering the US nuclear arsenal of 10.640 nuclear devices, each of them having multiple warheads I would certainly hope that if deployed, that would be a result of a little more than “a second’s hesitation” I do not think that Truman’s decision was made lightly.
March 1st, 2006 at 4:32 amThe problem is that we are focussing on the wrong issue.
We can never win a war against terror. It’s neverending.
The real issue is the totalitarian ideology of islam, which is a threat comparable to Nazism or communism.
We can fight islam and win in the same way we fought the other ism’s of the last century, and we can ban the muslims from our countries, so they can’t infiltrate us with their terrornetworks.
That’s the way to fight a real war.
March 1st, 2006 at 4:33 amhttp://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18316988-23109,00.html Good news !
March 1st, 2006 at 4:59 amTo the analogy of sheep, wolves and sheepdogs related by puddle pirate (# 11), I would add an additional category: the Judas goat. This is the filthy quisling who works WITH the wolves and leads the sheep to slaughter.* He’s the guy who runs around and tells the sheep that the SHEEPDOG is the enemy, that he’s curtailing their freedom to roam the pastures and graze where they want because he’s power-mad and is using the threat of the wolf (who really isn’t so bad, you know) for his own devious ends.
Sadly, there have been Judas goats throughout our history, and we’ve got ‘em now. Some were misguided idealists (though not a whit less dangerous for their naivete), while others were outright collaborators who knew what the enemy was doing and were all for it.
The rope for all of them, I say.
(*) OK, I know: Judas goats are used at slaughterhouses, but you get the idea…
March 1st, 2006 at 5:08 amAnother post well worth reading, thks Misha.
I realize that the softbellied appeasers that run day to day business in both US and all other western governments probably does not agree, - so much more is the reason why it should be said, shouted, written and communicated in every way possible, as often as possible, by as many people as possible: YOU CANNOT WIN A WAR WITHOUT BEATING THE ENEMY.
You have to beat your enemy into total unconditional surrender, or the war will never stop. Take a look at “Palestine”. If the Israelis had finished the job in ‘67 a lot of lives would have been spared in the following 38 years. In stead the Palestinians were allowed to “refuse” surrender, although it was clear to anyone they had lost. They were allowed to refuse to acknowledge the existance of Israel when instead they should have been FORCED to do just that - with any and all means.
The Paradox is, that if the Palestinians had accepted defeat, they would probably have had their own state many years ago, and tolerable relations with Israel. In stead they chose stage a play called “victim” - an arab speciality which has brought them (and us)nothing but grief. And still they dont get it….
March 1st, 2006 at 5:10 amA country at war has no non-combatants. The civilian population may be as innocent as the people of Hamburg, Dresden and Berlin - but armed forces of ANY nation depends on the support of the people, if not morally then financially and in terms of resources.
How to distinguish between a raging gun yielding camel jockey and a raging gun yilding camel jockey with a military rank???
March 1st, 2006 at 5:21 amThis brings up one of the biggest questions I have of the Iraq war. Why did we leave any guns in the hands of the population? There is no 2nd Admendment right to protect in Iraq and it seems it would be a lot easier to recognize and engage the terrorists if we said “Anyone seen with a firearm will be considered the enemy and will be shot….Period”.
I don’t care about the Moslem’s losing face by having to disarm. Give’em a receipt and tell them they’ll get it back when we leave.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:20 amMy friend, I would never even think of telling you how to run this place.
But I imagine I speak for all the LCs when I say - I’d best damn well see this post in the sidebar under “Imperial Edicts”. This…is required reading.
Damn fine job.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:20 amSomeone named DJ made this statement: “I notice you managed to make it through without mentioning the Dubai Ports World deal. how serious are we about security if we would even consider turning our ports over to a foreign government — any foreign government?“…
Hmmm, did you just wake up from a forty plus year coma?
Maybe Halliburton should get the ports contract…:lol:
Now here are some words of wisdom, words that the administration and many, many others should consider from the Emperor: “Just read that a former ambassador of the Taliban, Rahmatullah Hashemi, is currently a Yale student on a student visa.
The urge to bang my head against the table is powerful indeed.
This cretin, this subhuman medievalist was a ranking member of a terrorist regime that embraced torture, oppression, terrorism and fighting without regard for the laws and customs of war, and he’s studying at Yale now? Based on his history alone, he should’ve been apprehended, put before a tribunal and promptly hanged, yet he’s a freshman at Yale”
AMEN!… Abso~damn~lutely!
Well since the obviously flawed CBS poll on Bush flew with all the grace of a falling cinder block now there is the following alledged poll from the always questionable Zogby: (www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075) U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006…
I can easily imagine that most of the troop don’t want to be away from their families, their jobs, and their lives…
Isn’t this an indicator that as a nation it seems we aren’t taking this war seriously as the troops were/are?
March 1st, 2006 at 6:28 amI would agree that a country’s military forces are supported by its people, but I cannot consent to what you are insinuating - that the civilian population is fair game. If that was really so, then why risk the lives of thousands of primarily American soldiers – you could simply apply the full military might of the US nuclear arsenal. That would ensure victory without the loss of coalition lives. I hope however that this is not a course of action you would approve of.
I much more agree with SoCalOilMan. His solution include the decisiveness that Misha is seeking, while giving the truly innocent a way to survive by simply not picking up arms toward the coalition forces.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:42 amGangraad
March 1st, 2006 at 6:46 amLet me also say that I’m not against sending in multiple cruise missles and bombing from on high as an option to assist the population with the decision to turn in their weapons.
Sire, this was on my mind last night, and as usual, you put it so much more eloquently than I ever could.
We need to get serious about this war, or we’re not going to survive.
Pessimistic, doom and gloomish, but true.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:53 amNor am I. Collateral casualities is a part of war and one can only ones best to minimize those casualities by using state of the art weaponry.
March 1st, 2006 at 7:09 amPlease say you’re being sarcastic. It doesn’t mattter what the goat turd renounced. He’s an enemy combatant. He’s something you would scrape from under your shoe. I’m sure he was welcomed with open arms at Yale. The moonbats were probably fighting over who’d be first to invite him to dinner and apologize for our government’s incursion into his homeland.
But we can all relax. Condoleeza Rice has everything under control - so much, in fact, that she has had time to offer some workout tips. [Smacks head, rolls eyes].
March 1st, 2006 at 7:42 amSir I was chewing on this last night when I read this post.
March 1st, 2006 at 7:53 am[…] We’re still not serious about this war thing: a former Taliban ambassador is comfortably attending Yale. Posted by Ian S. in […]
March 1st, 2006 at 8:01 amI fear that someday when our daughters look through the netting of their burqas (must be polite, after all, and not offend) and see the mushroom cloud blooming over the US, SOMEONE who was in a position of authority will say to themselves, “I’ve had enough!”
But it will be too late. Most cannot feel the chains until they are too tight to escape.
Oh dear sire, that all could have your clarion vision. We, as a nation, will wish with all our hearts that we had fought then, because it will be too late. We will look back fondly on our past greatness as we walk toward our taxpayer funded, state mandated mosques.
March 1st, 2006 at 8:19 amMaybe we could change some (alleged) minds of our antagonist’s by building one more clause into the National Riot Act we release as the last diplomatic options are exhausted;
After we’re forced by force to do the “right thing”,, make sure that all parties involved understand that whatever we decide to flatten will remain flat until we decide it doesn’t need to be flat anymore.
Call it deterrence, paybacks, economics, whatever.
I call it an invitation to either evolve or to become extinct.
We tried (trying) to re-build level fields for free folks to operate on, like the Our Republic we’ve been so successful with, but the cost causes other’s to balk, which causes a box-car effect, tracks jumped, it’s continued application brings the feasibility of keeping this as SOP into question.
War must remain horrible, uncomprehensible, unimaginably terrible, lest it be pursued as an option.
Taking a page from Sun Tzuh,,make it so. Give ‘em something REAL to cry about.
Smash one, the other’s get smart or fossilize.
March 1st, 2006 at 9:27 amNO MORE REBUILDS
PUBLIC NOTICE
Re Comment #1: The content of this remark has been reviewed and approved for dissemination by the Democratic National Committee. For additional, similar material, please visit http://www.DNC.com and search “Talking Points” (keywords: Hackneyed+Inflammatory+Misleading+Non Sequitur).*
*nothing personal, DJ, but it does seem to fit.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:27 amTempting, but I will agree with you that it might not be the smartest thing to do. However, I still think the enemy should be hit hard no matter where he is - regardless of collateral damage. These guys are using the civilian population as a bombshield - and it works for them. Just hide behind a woman, and the enemy stops shooting. You only need to be as smart as Pavlovs dogs to figure that one out.
Now…if the enemy DOESN’T stop shooting, innocent civilians will soon find a way out of the line of fire thus leaving the terrorists to fight - and die - on their own.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:34 am[…] Courtesy of Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler: […]
March 1st, 2006 at 11:18 amHere we are dealing with barbarians, not nations. Rome fell not to another empire, but to barbarians, slowly bleeding out her soldiers defending her territory. There is no organized government to strive against here, Rome failed against what we face. Islam is a common thread, but I don’t see that nuking Mecca would fix the problem.
Bush is trying to nurture a strain of Moslems that are friendly to us. That didn’t work for Rome either, IIRC.
How do we deal with this? Do we go to option zero and attempt to eradicate Islam as a religion, killing over a billion people? Do we change the First Amendment to the Constitution, put millions of citizens behind bars for their religion? The concept of hudna is very fresh in my mind - Mohammmed said it’s okay to lie to non-Moslems.
Immediately before WWII there was a very strong isolationist attitude among the American people. I can see us going that way again; the Roman empire did not have the geographical advantages we do. Canada would either restrict access or become a protectorate. We would either take Mexico over or just slaughter illegals at the border. Europe might become the Caliphate of Islam, which would be in conflict with an expanded imperialistic China.
March 1st, 2006 at 11:36 amI can see us going for Fortress America even or especially if we get any real WMD attacks.
Bush’s success in protecting us since 9/11 has actually increased our vulnerability.
The left, in their enraged insanity at thier loss of power (see comment #1), have engaged in deliberate undermining of our war efforts and have been somewhat successful because we haven’t been hit since 9/11 to convince the population that we are making a big deal out of terrorism for political gain.
We’ll have to get hit again, and big before people will finally throw the shumers and boxers and sheehans down a hole filled with gasoline.
I am praying and burning black candles for protection in hopes that it isn’t my city and family vaporized in The Great Wake Up Call™ that is imminent.
March 1st, 2006 at 11:40 amIt would not surprise me in the least if the terror masters struck my city of work: Seattle. One of the biggest mental failures of the Left has been to imagine that if they hate Bush enough,, and show solidarity with Islamism and Islamist sympathizers enough, and decry their own country and its evil, nasty ways enough, somehow this will make them immune from attack when the jihad finally hits home.
See, the Islamists are playing the Left like a fiddle. It’s the old Useful Idiot thing. Look at the late Rachel Corrie and her parents. Useful Idiots, all. Look at Cindy Sheehan. Quintessential Useful Idiot. If I were an Islamist I would be laughing myself into incontinence on an hourly basis at how much free and eager help I was getting from the very same people I plan to eventually enslave and kill if I can actually effect my plan for global Shar’ia.
When the suitcase nukes come, they won’t be going off in Red State cities. They’ll be going off in Seattle, San Francisco, New York, Washington D.C., et al. The heart and soul of Blue America is where the damage will be done, precisely because the inhabitants of these cities have made themselves into the easiest, most willing targets. While they smile and offer flowers to their enemies, the Islamists pull out the knives.
Good post, Misha. Reflects my thinking as well. I am glad the family lives down Tacoma way. If I am lucky I’ll be home when the mushroom cloud appears over the northern horizon.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:53 pm“Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy.”
Emperor Palpatine
March 1st, 2006 at 1:09 pmStar Wars: Revenge of the Sith
I agree with Ranger. In all likelihood, it is a question of when, not if.
If we don’t get serious about winning this war.
March 1st, 2006 at 1:34 pmI keep envisioning the scene from Independence Day when the kaliforina leftards are up on the roof laughing and waving to “welcome” the aliens, who then promptly blow them to shit. It’s not an unrealistic scenario in this country. Unfortunately, our leadership in DC just keep putting their heads up each others asses and repeating “they are our friends, they are our friends” like some fucked up hippie mantra to keep reality at bay. We need to take a shit or get off the pot.
March 1st, 2006 at 1:47 pmBrillant writing Misha, I hope you do this often.
Everything you wrote I agree with you about, and have been thinking about the same things for a long time.
I keep telling myself this time, this last shock I get from learning something that the policital correct Americans do will be the last thing they do to destroy America, but then 5 minutes ( it feels like that) later there is something else. It feels like it never stops and then I wonder when the troops learn of this bs how do they keep going. How do they keep fighting and serving when they are analyzed up the wazzoo and our government wants to make nice with the enemy. How do we stay strong on one hand and turn into mush with the other??? It does not work!!!
Who the hell cares if we are liked or not. We helped many nations in the past that afterward hated us. So kissing up like in the UAE deal does not make them see us as good guys. They see us as weak.
Kissing up to the Hamas and funding any part of what they are connected to……..more weakness on our part.
I wonder if back in the old days before I was born like in WW11 and the Korean war etc. did the American people expect then to begin and end a war during a weekend? (so to speak) The left and PC’ers sure demand that now.
It used to be just the left that shocked me, now I just don’t get why conservatives think it is good to work with evil. How do those that are for the UAE deal after yesterday finding out that Dubai does not accept things from Israel. That should be enough to send those FOR Dubai reeling into rage. Where is their rage????
Political correctness, apathy, let the other guy do it, taking way too long to decide if they are for or against something that could very well like you said make 9-11 look very small in deaths.
What happened to that instant guy feeling the second one heard about the Dubai deal telling them this stinks, this is wrong, this is going to be huge truoble one day. It seems many guts are coated now with Pepto PC and we are in trouble.
March 1st, 2006 at 2:47 pmSub-Odeon: I think Seattle is right up there on the list of potential easy targets. What do you bet something happens there before 2010? If not before, then during. The ferry terminal would be dramatic.
March 1st, 2006 at 3:11 pmOn my drive into work this morning, the guys on the radio were talking about the ports deal, and how to use the grants of this kind of contract to ‘reward’ the good behavior of our arab allies. As long as this kind of thinking is perpetuated by those who have apparently failed to consider that any understanding with Islam is only going to last as long as the arrangement is convenient for the muslims. As long as people who can speak and be heard in our society possess and espouse the belief in the ‘moderate’ muslim, we will be subject to a distracted and lazy approach to our current peril. I would like to see the slumbering giant wakened, but I honestly don’t see it happening without many of our of citizen’s being murdered first.
As far as a historical view, I believe that we (judeo-christian society) have been wringling with Islam for centuries because the Isralites did not wipe out their forebears when commanded to do so, but I would have to defer to the judgement of those who may have studied the matter more in depth, like Alan K. Henderson or Mussolini. Something to consider, anyway.
March 1st, 2006 at 3:37 pmLong, interesting post. Inspired a long winded rant. Apologize for the lese majeste.
The premise that the US is not taking this war seriously is perfectly valid. I can give an example from your own blog. On the Dubai port deal, you first came out with the free trade argument but finally came down against the deal because Dubai participates in the boycott of Israel. Perfectly good peacetime reasoning, but utterly irrelevant during a war. The first question is whether this deal will do anything to improve our security. Answer, not a goddamn thing. Even Adam Smith said that defence is more important than opulence. The second question is what is Dubai doing to help combat Islamofascism. Not much: providing a liberty port is what has been in the news. Well whoop-dee-doo; some liberty port, can’t even get a decent drink, and the girls dress in burlap sacks. I think it is time that the Muslim countries generally learn that until they play by the rules of civilization all the time, they do not get the benefits ever. Run riot, burn flags and embassies, tolerate religious extremists, etc. and lose the rights to have contracts honored, send students to someplace with technological know-how, etc.
Now the premise that I cannot share is that we should adopt the methods of people like the Romans, who were, I must admit, pretty effective militarily. Are you really advocating slavery? It worked for the Romans, but is that who we are? The Nazis proved pretty effective in keeping insurgencies down. Simple, just kill in reprisal 10 hostages for every Nazi killed. Yes there was an underground in Denmark, in Norway, in the Netherlands, in Poland, in France, but in none of them did it ever really threaten Nazi control or even cause the Germans to employ many combat divisions: liberation required the US, UK, and Red Armies. I am really sure that you do not want us to be effective at occupation by becoming animals like the ones who occupied Denmark for five years. The problem in Fallujah was that the insurgents used the city’s inhabitants as human shields, and we are a little reluctant to squash such shields as though they were cockroaches. I for one believe we must maintain that reluctance despite your imperial decree.
The real problem here I believe is that we have no grand strategy for dealing with terrorism, and that is the fault of the administration. The US military did a brilliant job, tactically, operationally, and strategically, in toppling the Baathist regime in Iraq. But the administration is still dreaming the dreams of Woodrow Wilson about making the world safe for democracy. Fuck that: making the world safe for Americans is the only job a US President is elected to do.
Let’s face it: it took the West millennia to achieve democracy; it took the Brits two hundred years to establish a democratic infrastructure in parts of India (Pakistan flunked immediately, and notice that it was the Muslim part of the Indian sub-continent that flunked.) The US is not well equipped militarily, politically, or psychologically to be an occupying power or to suppress a guerrilla insurgency. Trying that is not good grand strategy, which is the intersection of politics and war and what the civil government is responsible for. We should have toppled Hussein, occupied the country while we scoured it for WMD, asked the Kurds whether they wanted to be an independent ally, captured Hussein and publicly announced his release unarmed and alone in Basra or Dahuk, and let the Arab barbarians settle things among themselves after we found that the WMDs were missing from Iraq.
This idea that we are responsible for improving Iraq is nonsense that bogs our troops down, demoralizes the home front, wastes our treasure. Remove Hussein, let his domestic enemies kill him the way Mussoloni was killed, destroy any WMD that we find along with the facilities that can make them, and move on to the next hellhole. The Iraqis have been urbanized since before 3000 BCE and have not learned a damn thing about how to live as decent human beings in 5000 years.
We are sitting targets in Iraq and for no sensible purpose. I do not give a rat’s ass whether Iraq descends into civil war, whether Shitties murder Sonfuckers or vice versa. We need to fight this war on our terms, not theirs.
Sorry for the rant.
March 1st, 2006 at 5:48 pmGood post, Misha. The problem in a nutshell is: do we have the will to win? Right now the answer is, some do and some do not. Overall there is no clear mandate to vigorously prosecute the war on terror, only to get it done with, as it is an inconvenience. America expects instant results and flawless execution, but refuses to make the sacrifices necessary for a long term strategic victory. Many of our politicians are treasonous embarassments. As you and others have stated, it will take increasing atrocities against America to wake us up. I agree with Ranger and Heather that it is not a matter of if, but when.
Don’t pound your head on the table. The World Court in the Hague will no doubt indict Ratmullah Hashweenie for Crimes Against Humanity (blah, blah..) and stick him in the same cell block with Milosevic.
Look at what we have teaching in the laughing academy, Sami Al Arian? Shit! Our universities and the identity politics they foster are our worst security risk. Madrassas running on our tax dollars.
Carthage and Rome or the three wars with Germany are valid comparisons insomuch as they clearly point to the need for VICTORY, not accommodation or armistice between deadly antagonists. Islam, even at its most virulent is in no way the menace either Germany or Rome was in it’s day. The terrorists are capable of stinging us badly, but not defeating us. Carthage fell because Rome would not quit, and Carthage relied on mercenary soldiery. The same reliance finally did in Rome. Her invaders had been its mercenaries and immigrants for years.
Pakistan has nuclear weapons and a respected military. The country is one heart beat away (Mussharif’s) from being an Islamic state in the worst sense. Iran has been sabre rattling about nukes and may have purchased the Fissile material from North Korea. It only takes about 5kg of Plutoniun 239 to make a nuke, and reprocessing is much simpler than gas centrifuge diffusion for Uranium 235. There is no doubt about it, America, and the western world is looking at a nuclear armed and very militant Islam. This all reminds me of the dithering and appeasement that guaranteed WWII. It is going to get worse before it gets better.
We do not need to persue a policy of “Mecca delendum est.” But we should make it abundantly clear we will take any and all steps necessary to protect ourselves. Afghanistan and Iraq have given the United States credibility, but nothing like staying the distance on the war on terror will. Do not look for a replay of WWII.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:17 pmIntersting thought, Alex. I’ve always thought that if it is a war, then occupation and brutal retaliation for attacks against our forces are effective ways to respond. Asshole though it may make me, if it makes American troops and American citizens safer, I have no problem with that. Citizenship should be like the American Express card: Membership has its priviledges. I have always been wary of the America as the ‘Johnny Appleseed of Democracy’ premise. Bush Sr. tried peddling that line in the first Gulf War, and I didn’t buy it then, either. They aren’t interested in democracy. If they were, they would have it. What is there will go poof about five minutes after our departure. Anyone who thinks otherwise still believes in moderate muslims; their seat is waitng at the kiddie table.
Our priority is to remove other nation’s ability to harm us. If you have a WMD program, hold on, we’re coming to releive you of that burden. We don’t give a rat’s ass about your internal politics. Getting involved will only distract and divide us, at home and abroad. For those who want to talk about nation building, bringing democracy, and all that other hearts and flowers crap, consider this: Nobody gave us our democracy, we gave it to ourselves. I can’t deny we had help, but those parties had no pretentions about bring democracy to North America. If they want democracy, then they need to clean house themselves, and keep it clean. I’d much prefer that our policy be clearly stated and clearly executed: We will do what is necessary to make our nation safe from those who would do it harm. If you’re going to act like a global asshat, expect a visit from Uncle, to make sure you can only harm yourselves. And oh yeah, tell us the truth. Don’t give me any namby-pamby bullshit about fighting for democracy for people who never have had it and are hostile to the concept. Tell me the truth: It’s about the oil, stupid. It’s about keeping the terrorists on the run there, so they can’t run around here, and other similar explanations.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:18 pmIf we made that the policy, and followed through, foreign affairs get easier, not harder. As Marcus Cole said, you get more with a two-by-four and a kind word, than with just a kind word.
Does this mean that we’re at war with Yale? It wouldn’t surprise me but I’d like to know for sure.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:40 pmTo BisW
I didn’t say reprisals against civilians were ineffective. They work just fine. I just suggested that we did not want to go there; I know that I am obviously a bleeding heart liberal.
If we fuck around trying to civilize these barbarians, then reprisals, hostages, terror bombing, etc. is what we will have to do to win. But why are we even trying to civilize them? It puts us in a position where our military advantages are minimized. Let’s choose a grand strategy that maximizes our advantages. And yes, as you say, let’s tell the truth: we plan to kill them before they can kill us; if you help them, we’ll kill you, etc. The American public would be much more positive about a nice, simple approach that shows a good promise of success.
Ahh hell, you and I are not really in disagreement. Can’t work up a good rant when you just differ over petty details.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:42 pmI’m not sure I really disagree. I don’t think we can civilize them, but we might be able to housebreak them. That, and a consistent policy for us was the point of my rant. Sorry I didn’t make that clearer. And I screwed up the Quote: “You get more with a kind word and a two-by-four, than with just a kind word. The good news is he is dead, so he can’t really take umberage with me.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:54 pmSadly, I think you are correct, Sire…from the war profiteers to the political opportunists to the domestic American haters, far too many people find it most convenient as things are now. They aren’t the ones that die in buildings, or in combat, but remain the fist in line to play the Monday morning quarterback. In truth I think it will probably remains so until no doubt remains in anyone’s mind that our national survival is literally at stake. God only knows what that will take and I’m not anxious to find out.
March 1st, 2006 at 8:20 pmWe don’t have to adopt every measure of the Romans’ Alex. Not that I have a problem with enslaving terrorists or their sympathizers, at least you could put them to some sort of use rather than wasting funds on keeping them alive in camps.
Understand this point of mine, please, because it’s at the core of everything I stand for: Once you embrace terrorism either actively or as a supporter, you forfeit all of you human rights. Every single one of them. For the very simple reason that you forfeit your right to call yourself human at all. And if you’re not human, you are to be treated no different from other rabid animals. If you have some use to humanity, fine. We’ll put you to good use. If you don’t, oh well. We’ll just put you down. I lean toward the latter option. Round them up, shoot them in the back of the head, then let their kinfolk dispose of the carcasses as they see fit. They’re not human and I’m not going to waste a single neuron on pondering the “inhumanity” of our treatment of a rabid dog. They don’t rate that kind of consideration. End of story.
As to reluctance to punish the terrorists if it means hurting bystanders? Sorry, but that’s the road to defeat. I share your reservations, but the only thing you’ll gain from teaching the terrorists that hiding behind civilians will save their hides is that they’ll do it more. That’s why they’re using mosques as arsenals and strongpoints right now.
You can’t break that cycle unless you show them that it’s not going to stop you, and you needn’t lose any sleep over it. THEY made the choice, THEY left you with NO choice. The blood of those innocents is entirely on their hands.
As to any sort of comparison to the Nazis, we can only be like the Nazis if we become the Nazis. The Nazis used tanks. Does that mean that anybody who uses tanks is a Nazi? Nonsense, as I’m sure you’ll agree.
The Nazis’ problem, and our salvation, was that they were extremely good at using the stick but they hadn’t ever heard of carrots. If they, or more precisely Hitler, had known how to reward submission and cooperation as well as they knew how to punish the alternative, I’d have grown up in Greater Germany because the war would’ve ended in 1941 when the Soviet Union collapsed. Thankfully, that never came to pass.
Our job, if we want to win this war, is to make our enemies, present and potential, piss their robes with unholy terror at the mere thought of us getting angry at them. The ONLY way we can accomplish that goal is by making an example of just what happens to those who refuse to surrender. Saying “if you do this, then we’ll do this” won’t cut it unless they truly and completely believe that we actually WILL do it, and the only way of achieving that is by doing it. If you have done it once, then your enemies have no reason to believe or hope that you won’t do it again.
Does that give you pause? Of course it does, it gives me pause too, and it SHOULD. Because if it didn’t, then we’d be going to war at the drop of a hat. Going to war shouldn’t be something you do lightly, and the reason you won’t do it lightly is because you know exactly what it entails and because you know what you have to do to win.
You do NOT win wars by “winning the hearts and minds” of the enemy, you win it by destroying both, utterly and completely. You destroy their hopes, their will to fight and their very reason to live, and you make it abundantly clear that the only hope they ever have of getting all of that back is by complete submission and unconditional surrender.
As to Mecca and Medina, I don’t believe that the best way to go about it would be to nuke them. We should take them, raze them to the ground and build giant cathedrals and synagogues where they used to be.
March 1st, 2006 at 8:26 pmI am sorry that I misunderstood you.
I do have a problem with enslaving people for their sympathies. You do not.
I do have a strong feeling against concentration camps. You do not except perhaps as a matter of expense.
I did not say that I think we can win a war by avoiding collateral damage. I said I did not think we should target civilians.
And yes, I think if we kill or enslave people for their thoughts rather than for their acts and if we kill people indiscriminately like cockcroaches, then I think that does make us Nazis or Marxists or some other form of totalitarian.
A strategy that makes us become as low as the people we are fighting is not a good strategy. So the answer is to adopt a different strategy.
I guess I ain’t gonna be part of your empire though I am a little surprised to see a Dane proposing Nazi strategy and tactics.
March 1st, 2006 at 8:56 pmI have some serious issues with how this war is being fought, I support the cause and the troops who are carrying it forward…but I don’t believe that we are fighting to win…not yet at least, and I dread the motivating act that will truly commit us to win this. If I was polled, and asked if I approve of the way “W” is handling the war…I would say “No, I don’t approve”. This answer would be misinterpreted by the usual suspects and I would be wrongly labeled as an American who doesn’t support the war. So it goes in a nation governed by polls.
If you want some good perspective on the war, check out The Museum of Left Wing Lunacy today. It really puts that bogus Zogby poll in it’s place, as well as reminding us of who the domestic enemies are.
March 1st, 2006 at 9:10 pmWell, then, please forgive us for misunderstanding you.
We want to win this war. You do not.
(It works both ways, y’know.)
March 1st, 2006 at 9:12 pmMy Dear Lord Spatula
Your logic follows only if you believe that concentration camps, indiscriminate murder, and enslaving people for their thoughts is the only way to win. It was precisely my point that we are fighting the war the way they want us to, trying to civilize the uncivilized. Stupid policy. Just fucking dumb.
Perhaps you are right, we can win only by acting just like them, no different at all, but then have we won or become them? And if the latter, what is the point?
March 1st, 2006 at 9:22 pmIt might help to know if we are talking about the same things when we use common terms. As I recall, during the Revolutionary War, the Brits considered our guerilla tactics to be unsporting and told us so using a variety of unflattering terms. The distinction to be drawn, I suppose, is to point out that we didn’t hit civilians in lieu of military targets, and we weren’t taking the battle to Britain (for the most part, I know JP Jones did his raids, but again, done by military, in uniform. By any accounts I have seen, what we are dealing with in Iraq are jihadists from other nations, and dispossessed Bathists who show no compunction about killing other Iraqis, and who prefer chaos to life under rule by other segments of Iraqi society. I am encouraged by the reaction I see in the Iraqi populace at large. Sonner or later, it is up to them to choose to make democracy their chosen from of government.
Camps? We have to put them somewhere, unless you believe in summary execution, Alex. To call them ‘concentration camps’ maybe affixing an inappropriate name on them. These people were not indiscrimately rounded up, they were taken from a field of battle where they were carrying arms against us. That’s a pretty large distinction.
Target civilians? I don’t think anyone seriously says “Damn, I’m just tired of fighting for these Iraqis, let’s just waste ‘em.”
But, if the same people continue to let themselves be used or placed in harm’s way by the mischievous minions of Mecca worshippers, then I have to wonder, out loud, if they aren’t contributing to the problem.
Enslaving people? HMMM. I guess my take is if there is no doubt that if we were to free any of these persons, their only mission in life would be to murder as many people as they possibly can, and they would even be willing to die while doing it, then they are probably beyond any redemption that reasonable men would hope for. It is important to remember that the forgiveness that comes with redemption does not mean you get out of paying the price for your mistakes. If we know they are murdering bastards, and that they’ll be murdering bastards until the day they die, I want to spend no more time on them. I would guess that an enemy combatant could be sentance to a firing squad if found guilty of murder. Slavery creates a whole host of issues that this country is not in any condition to address with any modicum of honesty or integrity.
The comparison to the Nazis is neither accurate, or appropriate.
The discussion has been stimulating. Don’t let disagreement scare you away.
March 1st, 2006 at 9:42 pm(Way Past) Time To Get Serious…
The Anti Idiotarian Rottweiler has once again illustrated why he should really be the Emperor, at least for a little while. CLICK HERE and read why it’s (way past) time to get serious about the War On Terror™. The lack…
March 1st, 2006 at 10:04 pmAlex, how dare you infer that we are running concentration camps…you’re talking about Gitmo and Abu Graibh right? where the POW’s, don’t call ‘em detainees, are given three square meals designed to be religiously acceptable? yep, that sounds like Auschwitz west to me….brush up on what concentration camps really were O.K?
Nor do we deliberately target civilians, do you have any proof to back up your claim of that? If the rat bastard terrorists choose to hide behind an innocent while firing at us…what the hell are we to do? Take the bullets and smugly die, comfortable in the knowledge that we are morally superior? Jeeez man….
My late uncle was wounded at Monte Cassino during World War II. He was hurt and came home long before the Allied high command decided to get serious about winning the battle there. Do you know what Monte Cassino was? it was an abbey dating back to medieval times, it contained lots of valuable Christian antiquities. It sat atop a mountain in Central Italy, the Germans occupied it and from the abbey, they could see our troops advancing and fire down upon them. Needless to say, they stopped the advance cold, inflicting very heavy casualties on the Allies (my uncle among them). The allies played the sensitivity game, refusing to destroy this ancient abbey out of deference to the Vatican’s wishes to preserve it….all the while having to deal with Nazi artillery raining down from it. Finally the Allied High Command had enough and bombed the abbey to rubble, amid howls of protests from around the world. Protests that were fanned by the very Nazis who occupied the abbey in the first place, believing that we as a civilized decent people would NEVER destroy such a hallowed place. Even after we bombed it, we arranged a cease fire to evacuate the abbot that the monks who lived there, and the Germans took advantage of that to dig into the rubble and hold out for a little while longer, inflicting still more casualties due to our moral superiority. I believe that it was Gurkha, New Zealand, and Pakistani troops who eventually had to climb up and dig the Germans out.
So much for my long winded history lesson (not 100% factual, I’m sure). Monte Cassino is one example of where we had to say “Favorable PR be damned, we have a war to win”. Sadly, I think we will have to do more of this kind of thing. Unfortunate, but forced upon us…just like Cassino.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:06 pmAnd if I do, sir? What the fuck of it? If it takes “concentration camps, indiscriminate murder, and enslaving people for their thoughts” (when said thoughts consist of driving Israel into the sea, and us along with them) to get them to figure out that they have not a snowball’s chance in Hell™ against us unless they come to their senses and join the civilized world - then that’s what it takes. We’re sure as shit not gonna get their attention by singing a buttload of Kumbayas with ‘em, are we? And the only thing I’m pointing towards Mecca is my ass after I’ve had some of my homemade chili.
Perhaps you’d like to show me where we flew planes into their mosques? Or where we bombed their naval vessels? Maybe where we hijacked their cruise ships and mercilessly executed their passengers and dumped their bodies overboard?
You’re damned right we’re better than they are. And we don’t need anyone’s affirmation to know that, either.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:09 pmB is W
I do not scare easily, but I must admit I get bored easily.
Let’s see. I brought up the plural “camps” because of this sentence, “Not that I have a problem with enslaving terrorists or their sympathizers, at least you could put them to some sort of use rather than wasting funds on keeping them alive in camps.” Now I will admit that it is a bit ambiguous whether the emperor is advocating jailing or killing people for their thoughts, but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt that he means only to put people in slave labor camps for their thoughts rather than to kill them outright. I’ll certainly retract my comment about camps and apologize if he meant that they should all be wasted.
Nor am I saying anything so fatuous as that guerrilla tactics are not sporting. I am saying fucking around trying to teach the Shitties and the Sunfuckers about the wonders of democracy is a goddamn waste of time that subjects us to guerrilla tactics unnecessarily. I am not much in favor of letting American lives be lost for a civics lesson.
Now I’ll be fair. I am not quite sure that I know precisely what the emperor means by “supporters” in a sentence like “Once you embrace terrorism either actively or as a supporter … we’ll just put you down” like a rabid dog. That sounds to me like wasting civilians for their opinions because the emperor has decided that their opinions constitute support for terror. Perhaps I am wrong. But so far that sounds one hell of a lot like a Marxist or a Nazi or an Islamofascist to me.
Now I suspect that the emperor and I are not all THAT far apart on the issue of collateral damage. If it is reasonably probable that someone is standing on a balcony aiming something at a US serviceman, blow them away and ask questions later. Camera? Too fucking bad, those are the breaks. The terrorists decide to take over some shitkicker’s hut, and we demolish it, killing all in side. Well, next time maybe the tribal sheik will figure that not cooperating is going to end up costing him his tribe and maybe it is better to drop a dime on the terrorists. Of course, the whole issue is sort of beside the point if there is really no particular reason to be there trying to educate the tribe on how civilized people are supposed to live. Deciding, as the emperor seems to have (though perhaps I have not understood him), that everyone in some town should be killed like “cockroaches” because there are quite likely terrorists in it goes a bit further down the collateral damage road than I think most Americans are willing to go, but I admit drawing a line on that issue is very hard to do.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:30 pmA brief correction here. In my previous post about Monte Cassino, I completely left out the Polish troops who eventually took the abbey and raised their flag over Monte Cassino.
I’m very sorry for that error.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:32 pmJaybear
I said not a fucking word about Gitmo or Abu Graib. Wasn’t even in my mind. I was responding to Misha’s words. I do not have a single problem with Gitmo or Abu Graib. These are people that definitely are or are reasonably likely to be bad actors. In fact, I would have no problem if we started shooting them for being out of uniform. That would stop the idiotic complaints about torture. Can’t torture someone who is dead. And it eliminates the tragedy of the poor dears not knowing when they get to go home.
Lord Spatula
No, we have not flown planes into their mosques or shot up innocent civilians on vacation because we do not like their thoughts. So, yes, that absolutely makes us better than the people we are fighting. But if we take up slavery, indiscriminate murder, and concentration camps we will no longer be better than them. If your moral sense cannot grasp that, it is not just chili coming out of your ass.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:42 pmI apologize for mispelling Sonfuckers in my prior post. I know how sensitive they are to slights, and I certainly did not mean to imply that they have sex with inanimate objects.
I am out of beer and am going to bed. I’ll check in tomorrow to see how many rockets have been aimed my way during the gloaming.
Night all
March 1st, 2006 at 10:58 pmOK I’ll join the fray…
After over 2 and half years in the ME and facing the prospect of another tour over there, (no I am not military, I am a defense contractor) I have to say it is my belife that issues such as collateral damage and civilian casulties in the war on terror and in Iraq are moot points.
You cannot change 700 years of intolerance, hate, bigotry, and mob mentality by anything less then overwhelming force. Period. Because that is ALL that these people are going to understand.
I’ve said it before, Muslims are damn near brainwashed from birth. The poorer the nation the worse the problem becomes.
The average Muslim in the ME is not going to negotiate, I’d wager 60% percent perhaps more of them are sympathetic to Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts, they don’t understand shit about civilization, Hate the jews, and basiclly understand only one thing; thier version of creation, the prophet and Allah. Everything else is secondaray to them. The other 40 percent are possibly “moderates” but they will jump ship in a heartbeat… they have to it’s thier religion and forsaking Islam or even appearing to side with the “infedels” is punishable by nothing less then death. Don’t belive me, Al Quida has repeatedly threatened or targeted the Saudi Royal family as well as the Emir of Kuwait…
Make no mistake they will kill you to defend thier religion without the slightest hesitation, and at the slightest provocation…in fact they don’t really even need to be provoked.
Witness the recent riots over cartoons…
Beheadings…
Dancing in the streets on 9/11 …
Does anyone really think the mobs that attacked and burned those Americans and hung them from the bridges entering the city of Fallujah were true dyed in the wool Al Queda members?
Look at the videos and you’ll see those were AVERAGE CITIZINS….those were 19 year old kids maybe younger.
I’ve seen footage that most have not, shoot from the air of hordes of Iraqi’s and by hordes I mean nearly 300 in strength enmass trying to attack U.S. Patrols, now you’re going to tell me this is all Al Quida? Please. These are every day Joe, or Momar if you will, on the street civilians.
As a foot note that particular little nasty group of folks were dispatched quite nicely with a LGB dropped point blank into thier midst..it was a shocking and distrubing thing to witness at the time, but it was 20 US troops facing almost 300 muderous fucks with one thing on thier mind..kill the U.S. Troops…Betcha it’s been a pretty quiet little area of Iraq since that day tho…
It’s also common knowledge if you reseach the issue that many wealthy muslims also support the terroist’s ideology so do they get a free pass just because of thier affluence?
To paraphrase what Misha said… once you embrace the terrosit ideology you in effect are a terrorist yourself…
Anyone that doubts this needs to go LIVE there and spend time on the street in the ME. It’s a hell of an eye opener…
Snarl
March 1st, 2006 at 11:26 pmI’m glad I can help then, by quoting myself:
You see, I’d really much rather just kill the bastards and be done with them. I don’t much feel up to running forced labor camps (or “concentration camps”, if you prefer, they’re a British invention anyway) because they’re high on maintenance and low on yield, not to mention that as long as the terrorists continue to suck air, they’re a flight risk. Nobody has yet escaped from a shallow grave.
My point being, of course, that whereas I don’t personally see labor camps as the optimal solution, I really couldn’t care less what we decide to do with terrorists and their supporters, since they’ve ceased to be human as far as I’m concerned. If we decide to tie them to crosses and light them on fire I don’t have a problem with that either, and there are no less than 3,000 reasons in Manhattan alone why I don’t give a damn and never will.
And perhaps I ought to clarify the word “supporters” a bit as well. Much as I’d love to be able to read the minds of the people we’re facing, it seems to be the only way to get an honest answer from them after all, the fact remains that I can’t and I am extremely hesitant to kill people based on what I think that they think, which is what we’d be doing if we started killing people because of their “thoughts”, which is what you seem to get from what I wrote. My bad, possibly, I admittedly don’t always get my point across as clearly as I’d like.
I don’t care at all for “thought police”, in order to be a “supporter” in my book you have to be a bit more overt than that.
If you fund terrorists, you’re a supporter.
If you harbor terrorists, you’re a supporter.
If you obstruct our pursuit of terrorists in any shape, form or fashion, you’re a supporter.
If you openly and in writing or words endorse the actions of terrorists or excuse said actions, you’re a supporter.
If you belong to any of those groups, you’re a supporter and I have ceased to be in the least bit interested in your fate, as long as it involves your demise. If you belong to any of those groups, you’re no better than a cockroach and I will feel absolutely no remorse upon learning that you’ve been crushed, nor will I hesitate a second to do the crushing myself.
Nor do I advocate the deliberate targeting of civilians. It serves precious little purpose except in extreme and very rare cases, those rare cases having to do with areas stubbornly refusing to surrender and relying on their people’s will to carry on. It’s always ugly, never easy, but it’s not always wrong. Hiroshima wasn’t wrong. Nagasaki wasn’t wrong. Dresden, Hamburg and Berlin weren’t wrong. They were horrible, brutal and the cause of much soulsearching and reflection, but they weren’t wrong.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more Japanese lives than they snuffed out, combined.
But there’s a long way from that to “deliberately targeting civilians” as in “bombing the shit out of them just because we can.”
We should’ve razed Fallujah to set an example, but that’s not the same as saying that we should’ve carpetbombed all of Iraq. What would’ve been the point? The vast majority of Iraqis get the message: We’re not their enemies unless they fuck with us, as a matter of fact we’ll be happy to help those who co-operate. But a few stubborn communities, such as Fallujah, don’t get it. In order to get them to understand it, you have to pull out the big stick and let it be known that such behavior will not be tolerated and that the punishment is far more terrible than any the terrorists could ever possibly think of.
As I said about Fallujah back when it happened, we should’ve given anybody willing to submit 48 hours to evacuate through controlled checkpoints, then we should’ve razed the city to the ground and killed anything that still moved in there. 48 hours to choose between life and surrender or certain death. No negotiations. Seems fair to me and a damn sight more fair than the treatment they gave our contractors.
That’s hardly the same as “deliberately targeting civilians”, now is it?
Oh, and I don’t much care for our “teaching the world to sing in perfect harmony” exercise either. It’d certainly be nice if we could, but the moment it starts drawing resources away from the war effort, we need to re-evaluate and we’re long overdue for a re-evaluation.
The problem is that if we just up and leave, the terrorists and thousands of the lukewarm wannabes out there will see it as a great victory, and they’ll be right. We can’t afford to hand them a victory, great or small, so leaving and letting them stew isn’t an option. Not to mention the fact that if we did, we’d probably have to come back in a few years. I don’t much care for re-taking previously hard-won ground either, particularly since it costs American lives every time we do.
So we’re left with only one option, which is to utterly and completely crush the “insurgents” as well as any notion among anybody in the region that they’ll live for more than a few days at best if they refuse to do as we tell them to do.
And the only way to achieve that is by making them fear us worse than Satan himself.
If you don’t like that, or if we as a nation aren’t up to that, I completely understand. I don’t like it either, but we should’ve thought of that before we went to war. If you’re not prepared to do anything, anything that you have to do to win, you shouldn’t go to war in the first place, because you’ve lost before the first shot is fired.
Unfortunately, now we are at war which leaves us with only one of two options: Victory or defeat. If we keep playing by the rules against an enemy who not only ignores those rules but is only too happy to use our love of them against us, we’ll lose.
It really is that simple.
March 1st, 2006 at 11:45 pmAnd you’ve just provided People Exhibit Number One™ as to why we prefer that liberals not prosecute our wars (not to mention why it scares us shitless that W will listen too much to folks like you in prosecuting this one).
If our enemy knows that there are things we simply will not do, then all they need do is withstand what we are willing to do, and they will have won.
You apparently are incapable of figuring that out - which is why you’re full of the shit that you’re so sure is coming out of my ass.
March 2nd, 2006 at 12:40 amOr will we become like them?
This argument comes up constantly and while it may not be a bad question to ask, it overlooks the reality of war. This is usually brought up with the intention of shaming us as to why are we defending ourselves and over looking the provocation that was the cause, and there by giving the orignal perpetrator a pass. War by it’s nature comes down to kill or be killed, or as the quote goes “to make the other son of a bitch die for his country”.
Will we become like them? From discussions here with the many fine veterans here (bless you all) I don’t think so. There have been many references to the “switches” installed during the training of our soldiers. These must work pretty well because my Dad came back from WWII a sane and kind man after being in the Pacific.
The second factor is the society we come from. We are not indoctrinated to hate everyone that is different, quit the opposite. We are a tolerant and generous people who really want the world to be a better place. We have raised our children, as we were raised, to believe that anyone is capable of doing good given the chance and applying themselves. We believe that other cultures do have facets that are good, and adopt them into our culture as we go along. We also reserve the right to reject the parts of foreign culture that conflict with our ideals.
The reason we will not “become like them” is that when the fighting is over, we return to the society we left. After WWII my father’s generation were not very fond of the German’s or the Japanese, but over time the animosity died out and now we celebrate Octobefest nation wide and have sushi restaurants every other block.
The examples I chose are kind of superficial, but they give the general idea. I don’t wish death upon every Middle Easterner I run into in spite of the indoctrinated hated of all things not Muslim and the attrocities committed in the name of their “religion”. I do wish for the destruction of any group or supporter of any group wishing for my destruction.
In Iraq, we’re stuck, for now, with the road we started down, to try to install a “democracy”. If we get pulled into another conflict, I hope we learn from recent history and commit overwhelming forces to the job and not stop until we have total control of the country so as not to go through this BS of constant little uprisings and the wearing down of morale that it creates.
March 2nd, 2006 at 2:01 amWell not quite… The bombing of the monastery of Monte Cassino is one of the truly great mistakes made by the allies during world war two. It just so happened that the Germans did in fact NOT occupy the monastery and it was turned into rubble unnecessarily. The only lives lost by the bombing were those of the hundreds of civilians who had barricaded themselves within the monastery, ironically enough, to live through the carnage outside.
It was General Bernhard Freyberg who asked for the bombing of the monastery despite claims from his own troops on the front line that no fire had come from the monastery. General Harold Alexander however, agreed and the US air force destroyed the monastery on February 15 1944.
As if that wasn’t bad enough the Germans advanced from the Gustav line to occupy the now smouldering ruins of the monastery. The bombing actually helped the Germans because the rubble provided much better cover than the monastery would ever have done and so several allied attempts to capture the hill were repelled. It was not until February 18 that allied forces succeeded in capturing Monte Cassino.
To those who do not miss a chance to demean the French know this. It was in fact the French under Alphonse Juin in close cooperation with Polish troops under General Wladyslaw Anders that, under heavy fire and with heavy casualties captured Monte Cassino where American and British forces had failed.
March 2nd, 2006 at 2:07 amSorry, I missed this post.
I would agree that collateral damage must be accepted in a war - but only to a certain extent. I do not believe that one should show utter disregard for collateral damage. The expected loss of civilian lives should always be weighed against the damage done to the enemy. If the loss is minor to the enemy while the expected death toll is high, one must simply await a better opportunity to hit the enemy.
I have no respect for the enemy while fighting. I too believe he should be hit hard and mercilessly, but not at every cost. I too am disgusted by the fact that he hides behind innocent civilians and by so doing protects himself.
This is not done in combat alone – it is the trademark of terrorists. They bellow about the cowardice of the west while being, themselves the worst of cowards. However much I want to hit them hard I do not believe that it justifies the killing of innocents, whenever this can be avoided.
Another example is the boycott of Danish goods in the Middle East. I would like nothing more than to pull every single cent of Danish support from Palestine, but I know that such an action would hit many more innocent civilians than it would, terrorising barbarians. And that makes me angry and frustrated, but there is nothing I can do about it. That is the course of terrorists and I must admit that they are playing their cards well. In an open struggle they would be run over and destroyed.
March 2nd, 2006 at 2:32 amMisha
I work for a living so this will be brief. Happy to see I kept people’s adrenaline running for a few hours. First time ever that someone has accused me of being a liberal.
Ahh go ahead, do it anyway. Why hesitate? You don’t have any objection in principle.
Agreed
What nonsense, but I agree that it is too dilatory and way too risky to find out whether the person that did the harboring did it voluntarily or involuntarily.
Seems a little vague. If a Danish magistrate insists on seeing evidence before incarcerating someone, that is certainly a form of obstruction, and, according to your lights, we should simply waste him. No thanks.
Well so much for freedom of speech and the press. I think if you are a real rottweiler, you can put your money where your mouth is and kill Cindy Sheehan or blow up the NY Times, both of which actions would represent a true societal improvement. But I suspect you are too chicken shit to go through with it. So while I think those actions would be morally wrong, you believe that they are morally right, but won’t perform them.
To Socal
I am sorry. I seem to have been unclear. I was NOT saying that what we are doing makes us just like them. I was saying that if we start following the path that Misha is advocating, we do become just like them.
Off to work. You guys can beat up on me for hours without a peep from me.
March 2nd, 2006 at 8:38 amTactical Cognition. Get it..USE IT
Those who don’t have it make such eloquent high-minded statements with no solution on 360 degree’s of horizon..hands firmly secured by peace-time moral’s ‘neath buttocks.
Though the concept has infinite applications and manifestations,,Here’s a little test;
A jihadi drops his rifle and raises his mit’s when he see’s you are already looking down the barrel at him, while down-range behind him, another raises his weapon, aim’s through him AT YOU.
A/ Let rip, they both die, you and your comrades behind you live.
B/ Hesitate, take a chance jihadi #2 won’t shoot, trusting in highminded fashion in his honor.
The concept is applicable in political statemanship as well as battlefield/intel’ arena’s, and the answer will determine whether I have time to engage in further discussion.
T.C. impaired: “Look! They’re runnin’ away! WE WIN”
T.C. savvy: :They’re flankin’ our ass! Watch the SIX!”
Apologies to those I’ve previously bored with this.
March 2nd, 2006 at 8:39 amCaspian?
Cheapshot911…
Yes, I understand where you are getting at. It is always easy to have the moral high ground when it isn’t yourself who is endangered. The statements that I have made all apply to the general rules of engagement – do not kill civilians when unavoidable. It is meant as a restraint on the troops in the field, not an order for them not to defend themselves if in danger. I would expect any man to do what is necessary to keep himself alive. At the end of the day - better one of them than one of us.
March 2nd, 2006 at 9:51 amBy all means, let’s negotiate.
Of course, I prefer to negotiate with my knife at my opponent’s throat, and my knee in his stomach. Makes for FAR more agreeable negotiation results. . . (evil grin)
March 2nd, 2006 at 11:08 amI think alex is ron in drag.
March 2nd, 2006 at 11:31 am“Don’t go to war on a whim, but once you do decide to go to war, you throw everything including the kitchen sink at the enemy and you keep pounding him, brutally and mercilessly, until every last surviving soul on his side, from the very young to the very old, realize that nothing but swift and total death and destruction awaits them if they resist.”
How about 6-month-old bagels? Yes, this has a story…my father’s uncle was part of the groundcrew at a bomber base in the Pacific during WW2. Naturally, his mother (my great GM) had to send her nice Jewish boy some bagels, so he wouldn’t starve. I can just imagine the ribbing he got when that package came, compounded by the guffaws when he found out that the bagels were harder than diamonds, having taken about 6 months to arrive.
OK, you’re in the midst of the most titanic struggle in human history, you’re responsible for loading high explosive bombs on to bombers riveted together in a few days and held together by unknown forces…so, what do you do? Why, of course, you tape the bagels to the bombs and drop them on the Japs! To Hell with titanic struggles, everyone needs a good laugh, plus you might even wound a few Japs with bagel shrapenel. But then…an officer found out about it (UH-OH). Except that this was a good officer, with a sense of humor…to make a long story short, he put my great GM up for a commendation for contributing to the war effort, and it ultimately got to Roosevelt’s desk where he signed it.
So, Misha, THAT is how you win wars, with stale bagels! Salting the earth, razing cities…FEH!
March 2nd, 2006 at 12:22 pmI hope you meant “avoidable” If the fire comes from their position, return fire would be “unavoidable”.
March 2nd, 2006 at 12:30 pmOh - yes, of course. My mistake. That does change quite a bit doesn’t it…
Sorry.
March 2nd, 2006 at 2:17 pmStill, your English is better than what I see on MTV.
March 2nd, 2006 at 4:04 pmIf only I could speak Dutch..*sigh*
To the “Rottweiler”
Since you put me on the spam filter to suppress my comments, I know that it is just you and me that know that you are a coward in addition to being a Nazi, pretty disgusting combination. But WE both know that you simply ran from the fight and hid behind your spam filter. A chicken shit rottweiler is really pretty funny.
Don’t worry. You can take me off the spam filter now. I only fight with people my own weight so I will not be back to embarass you again. Maybe you should change the name of your comments section to asskissers’ section just so everyone knows your rules.
March 2nd, 2006 at 4:56 pm26.
Please say you’re being sarcastic. It doesn’t mattter what the goat turd renounced. He’s an enemy combatant. He’s something you would scrape from under your shoe.
I was not being sarcastic. Not knowing the facts, I’m not afraid of the guy just because he has a reported history as a Talibandit. If he’s really a turncoat, he could be a useful resource. If, on the other hand, he wants to blow up Yale–isn’t that maybe what the Leftelite of academe really need? (Especially the Warped “Little Eichmann” Dunghills.)
March 2nd, 2006 at 5:47 pmSadly, the people who would most benefit from the lesson would be gone.
March 2nd, 2006 at 6:58 pmAnyone heard of this? (I found this over at LGF)
**Anyone want to tell me why we shouldn’t completely wipe out, mercilessly, Radical Islam???!!!***
As the mother of a 7 year old, I am to damn angry to even blog about this.
March 2nd, 2006 at 7:48 pmSure…
March 2nd, 2006 at 8:03 pmprovided that by “be a useful resource” you mean “exchange everything he knows for a less painful execution”.
Who said anything about being afraid of him?
He’s a former member of a brutal, illegitimate, mass murdering regime. I wasn’t afraid of Eichmann either, but that didn’t make me weep myself to sleep when the Israelis finally caught him and whacked his useless ass.
But I suppose we should’ve given Mengele and Eichmann scholarships instead, once WWII was over.
March 2nd, 2006 at 8:22 pmLady Heather,
It sounds to me like it is time to call Lefty and Guido, and pay ‘em to apply the “Islamic Pacifier”(tm), a.k.a. double-tap to the back of the head on 12 “Brave Soldiers of Allah” who are seeking to earn their 72 raisins by killing a little girl.
I lost my patience with these clowns months ago.
March 2nd, 2006 at 8:26 pmI don’t want the rodent here unless he is in custody, ratting out his buddies at the top of his lungs. If he is getting some “special assistance” in making that decision, I don’t have a problem with that, either.
Having said that, your remark is a little ironic. We didn’t have any trouble harboring Von Braun after the war. I know he didn’t consider himself to be a real Nazi, but that didn’t stop his participation with the German rocket program that managed to kill and terrorize civilian populations in England.
March 2nd, 2006 at 8:32 pmAgreed. I have always had problems with that as well, and I don’t really give a good shit how much of a genius he was.
Actions should have consequences. Actions MUST have consequences if we’re to effectively discourage said actions.
March 2nd, 2006 at 9:01 pmEven if it means that America would almost definitely have lost the race for the moon had it not been for Werner Von Braun?
I am not trying to delude the fact that he did develop both the V1 and V2; I am simply saying that I believe that he approached the project as an engineer rather than that of a mass murderer. It was his passion for rockets that fuelled his commitment (and perhaps the idea of a swastika impaled through his heart), which is also seen in the way he devoted himself to the construction of the Saturn V.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:09 amQuit whining, you silly twat.
You got caught by the spam filter because you triggered, inadvertently, one of its rules, putting you in the moderation queue for approval once I got the automated filter report. It has happened to quite a few other people around here in the past. Ask around if you don’t believe me.
Oh, I’m sure that you’ll now demand that I check the contents of the moderation box every five minutes to make sure that your fantastically intelligent missives aren’t delayed in the least, but if you really felt that strongly about it all you’d have had to do would be to send me an email, alerting me to the problem. It’d be a damn sight more effective than posting your complaint in a comment held for moderation, don’t you think?
Do you think? At all?
If I wanted you gone, I’d have just bumped your account. Trust me, it’d be the easiest thing in the world.
“Ran from the fight?”
G-d, but you are one obtuse little wanker with delusions of adequacy, aren’t you? What on Earth would make you think that I’d run from the likes of you? I’ve been called worse by far more eloquent people than you, and the very last thing I’d ever want to do would be to keep you from making yourself look like the ignorant bastard that you are.
There’s only one way of making you stop looking like an utter fool, and that would be for you to shut up, but I’m sure you’re already well aware of that. Unless you really are 6 years old, of course, and haven’t accumulated the necessary experience to reach that conclusion yet.
I’m not going to stop you, that’s for sure.
“Cowardly Nazi.”
Damn, you’ve really got to start working on your material, boy.
Well thanks. I wasn’t aware that I needed your permission, but thanks nonetheless. Of course, since you weren’t ON a filter to begin with, there was precious little need for me to remove you from it, but still.
Once again, since I’m sure you’ve already forgotten what I said, I generally clean up the moderation queue whenever I get the automated report, unless of course the comment in question has been submitted by someone intelligent enough to realize that filing a complaint in the moderation queue isn’t near as effective as sending me a direct WTF? in email.
Screaming and whining when you’re convinced that your comments are auto-bozo-binned is about as smart as picking up a dead receiver and cursing the phone company because you can’t get a dial tone.
But it’s truly amusing to watch, so I guess I ought to at least thank you for the entertainment.
You should check out the Daily Kos or the Dhimmicrat Underground then, since the only thing we have around here in your intellectual weight class is the script that handles the visitor counter.
Wouldn’t you have to succesfully accomplish an action at least once before being able to repeat it?
Sorry, didn’t mean to confuse you with logic.
Maybe I should install a filter keeping everybody with an IQ below room temperature from commenting? I actually thought I’d done that already by requiring users to click on “Submit Comment”, but you somehow managed to slip through a crack anyway. My bad, I suppose.
Don’t worry, I won’t make it any harder than it is already.
I wouldn’t want to miss out on the entertainment.
Dance, puppet, dance.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:22 amThat’s a hypothetical. Neither of us know for sure that that’d have been the case. Besides, the answer is “yes.”
I wouldn’t want any part of Josef Mengele either, even if he showed up on my doorstep with the cure for cancer.
Unless, of course, I had a way of getting the cure from him and THEN shooting him in the face with a load of double aught buckshot.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:27 amAnother possible reason to let him in. He might bring some badguys out of the woodwork–& maybe not realize he was set up for that purpose!
Of course, a known background as an evildoer changes the picture, but–
Even Master Sun had a use for “death agents”; my copy of his book illustrates the principle with a story involving a condemned criminal.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:30 amTweren’t me!
At least Alex is the one in drag. BTW, Alex, I got caught in the filter too, and I’m not on the reservation anymore. Only time people get banned here is for blatant trolling, or for something patently offensive to a lot of LCs(Caspian, anyone?).
I don’t think he’ll be back anyway. Sounds like he put a big ‘ol rhetorical period on his last comment.
March 3rd, 2006 at 3:47 amLemme tell you something, Alexandria, you fucking limp-wristed, pansy-assed pussy: If we had wanted you gone from here, you’d. Have. Been. Fucking. Gone. We don’t waste our time with dickhead tossers like you, chumpzilla.
Tweeeeeeeeeeet! Violation of Godwin’s Law, 25-yard penalty, repeat third down.
Maybe you shouldn’t have posted the URL of that favorite gay-goat-sex site of yours, eh, fuckhead?
Real brave hiding out there in Pittsburgh, aren’t you, chickenshit?
18959 Lina St, #601
Dallas, TX
If you think you’re such a billy-bob bad-ass, then let’s see some of it. Bring it on, wussy-boy. Anytime your balls grow past the size of hydrogen atoms, dicklick.
March 3rd, 2006 at 6:23 amcANT….sTOP….LAUGHING..Damnit.. Now I gotta clean my brandy new monitor from the coffee I just spit all over it…thanks Lord Spatula….thanks a lot!
March 3rd, 2006 at 7:24 am‘Funny how the slightest slight’s become proof of persecution.
March 3rd, 2006 at 8:14 am‘Like slammin’ the mini-jewels in the truck door then hollerin’ “I’m a TORTURED PRISONER!”
They’re making liquid crystal displays with brandy now? (r, d & g)
We aim to please.
March 3rd, 2006 at 9:32 amAhhhhh…”brandy” was used as a play on words, with the intent of sounding a little southernish ?….guess it didn’t come across too well in cyberspace..DOH!
March 3rd, 2006 at 11:31 amAlex and his silly word games and baiting. I found amusing his attempts at playing literary chess. A two bit troll in the making. Any fool can behave that way. No doubt a safe refuge. My belief? I don’t give a shit if my behavior makes me like the enemy, my belief is do what it takes to subdue or kill them. We nuked two cities, it does not mean we make a habit of it, but circumstances dictated we do what we did. I have enough faith in myself and my fellows to know such events only occur when necessary, and will cease with the ending of hostilities. He presents a recipe for disaster…but at least the neighbors won’t think your mean…..reminds me of something I said to some mealy mouthed asshole getting on my nerves once. I was not in a good mood that day to begin with, and getting hit with similar comments about sensitivities and sensibilities pissed me off. I made no friends stating “Unless you sign my check or suck my dick I entertain no compunction to give a shit what you think. And if you are eliciting my concern, or seeking to….I have a suggestion for you….” It has not been broached since. And yes, I AM an asshole!
March 3rd, 2006 at 9:17 pmShort Roundup/Tuesday Open Post…
Here’s a short roundup of a few posts that are in the “must read” category… Woody (Woody’s News and Views) pointed out Emperor Misha’s “We Need to Stop Playing at War“. Well, we do, and his post points out salient reasons why. Read ……
March 6th, 2006 at 11:25 pmDJ Allyn, ITW says: “Bush and company would have us believe that they have looked at every angle on this deal and feel that all security issues have been dealt with“…
Hmmm, just like Clinton and Cosco in Long Beach, eh?
Well maybe Bush should’ve had his own Arab version of Johnny Chung, what do you think?
March 11th, 2006 at 8:05 pm