OK, Let’s Deal
Posted by: Emperor Misha I in Blogs and Blogging, Borders? What Borders?, Politics11:56 am
Not a bad idea, Rick, and actually something I’ve been in favor of all along, so let’s take a break from the venting, raving and ranting for a bit (even His Rottieness needs a breather every once in a while) and see what can be done. I have a few suggestions.
First of all, the problem with the President’s hot air “suggestion” is that it’s offering us nothing in return for everything, which is why it’s completely unacceptable, so his little poll massaging exercise in empty rhetoric can go straight to the bozo bin. It’s useless, not even worth the paper that had to be sacrificed to print it.
No, his suggestion to send a woefully inadequate number of Guardsmen to the border with absolutely no mandate other than to be office workers and errand boys for the Border Patrol is not an olive branch. It’s so ridiculous that it’s hard not to take it as a deliberate insult.
If the Border Patrol needs office workers and errand boys, then let’s hire some civilian contractors. There is absolutely no reason why our fine,brave, well-trained soldiers of the National Guard should be wasting their time, time they ought to be allowed to spend with their loved ones after their splendid and heroic sacrifices overseas, doing menial labor. They’re soldiers. If they’re not allowed to do any soldiering, then there’s no reason why they should be ordered to sit in the scorching heat, far away from home and hearth. They’re not, or at least they ought to not be treated as pawns to be shuffled around to shore up the President’s poll numbers with empty gestures.
If they’re to be deployed to the border to secure it, they need to be given a full and unequivocal mandate to actually secure it AND they should be deployed in sufficient numbers for it to be successful. Anything less than that is a waste of their time.
Second, his hi-tech vapor fence promises won’t cut it. If we’re trying to cut a deal here, what’s offered from both sides must be specific, believable, concrete and efficient. Mumbling about unmanned aerial drones won’t do the trick. Yes, I know that we had occasional successes with Saddam’s soldiers surrendering to unmanned aerial drones, but I don’t think that it’s a serious platform to build a border security program on.
Give us some concrete offers and we can talk. I’d love to talk, but I don’t want to give an inch in return for empty blather that we all know run a huge risk of becoming nothing but a subject of endless committee discussions leading to absolutely no measurable results. Timelines, facts and hard fences. Less than that and the deal is off.
Third, there needs to be serious penalties for hiring illegals. Serious penalties as in hard time for the people responsible, not just a symbolic fine that can then be passed on to consumers. Obviously, for this to be fair and equitable, the employers MUST be given the means and mandate to thoroughly and adequately investigate their prospective employees and the ACLU can go… Well, I promised to hold back on the invective here.
All of the above is to take place before anything else. Secure the borders first and enforce existing interior laws, then we can move on to the next phase.
Then, after the above has been in effect for a few years, the hole in the border sealed and the swamp of illegal job opportunities here at home drained, we can talk about guest worker programs and how to deal with the illegals that haven’t yet deported themselves. We’ll cross that bridge when we get there, but first we have to put out the fire. THEN, and ONLY THEN can we start debating how to rebuild and redecorate the house.
Maybe our economy DOES need a guest worker program, I’m certainly not brushing that suggestion off as nonsense since I have no way of knowing for sure, but the time to implement one is AFTER we’ve made sure that the ship isn’t taking on water anymore, NOT BEFORE. If we need one, by all means let’s have one. Anything that helps our economy while keeping America strong, secure and sovereign is something I can support.
Amnesty? Not a chance. You break the law, you pay the price. I don’t care what you say about there “being too many lawbreakers” unless you also support amnesty for murderers, rapists and child molesters. No amount of legislation seems to have been able to stop those crimes so, by that “logic”, we should obviously throw up our hands and start pardoning those criminals as well. It’s still nonsensical and deeply offensive, but at least you’d be consistent about it.
If your argument is to ease the burden on law enforcement a bit, then how about this for a suggestion:
Once the borders are secure and we’re enforcing our existing laws on illegal aliens, we establish a “safe passage” period during which illegals can deport themselves, no questions asked unless they’re wanted for other crimes. Once they’ve vacated the premises, we consider the slate cleaned and they can then re-apply for entry through legal channels JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. If we have a guest worker program in place then, they can apply for inclusion in that. They can apply for student visas, work visas, you name it, JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
No preferential treatment, no rewards for having broken the law and managed to evade the consequences for five years.
Instead we offer a clean slate if they voluntarily depart and apply through legal channels.
Yes, I do realize that I’m basically offering them a pardon for their initial crime here, but I’m supposed to give something in return here as well, right? Besides, it’s just a suggestion off the top of my head. You don’t want “doors being kicked in in the night?” Well, I don’t want either and have never demanded such a thing but, under my suggestion, you can rest assured that it ain’t gonna happen.
Provided that those “decent, hard-working people” show that they have the decency to actually follow the laws of the country they wish to live in, of course, just once.
I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
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I was never in favor of a National ID card but in todays world of computer technology the government can find out anything they want to know about me anyway just by running a credit check and looking at my phone call record. So what is the big deal about a National ID card? Nothing. The ACLU can take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.
Now all that said, if this country is serious about stopping the invasion all it has to do is issue a national ID card to citizens and LEGAL immigrants with retina scans or palm prints–something that cannot be easily forged. Then jail the crooks who hire the invaders. And, jail those who provide social services to them. No jobs and no social services and no reason to be here except on vacation. I would like to see some invaders here spending money in our economy instead of taking money out of it and sending it out of country.
My new nickname for ‘Bubba Bush” is Wheaties because the sumbitch is a FLAKE
May 17th, 2006 at 12:06 pmWell the Bleeding Hearts have started. We’re going to be flooded with stories of those “poor innocent immigrants who are risking their lives to find a better life” stories. Take a gander at this one.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:20 pmThanks, Misha. I only wish this was how the debate progressed on the right. I see nothing in your post that I would fundamentally disagree with. It seems pretty spot on.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:28 pmThere can be no middle ground this time because we have had so many, so-called, “immigration reforms,” that have just led to more illegal immigration. In 65’ it led to the amnesty of about 2 million. In 86’ it led to the amnesty of 5 million. In 96’ we amnestied a few million more. Everytime we were told, that after the amnesty we would crack down and get serious about border security and illegal immigration, nothing of the sort happened the problem was allowed to grow. So now people are asking, if you weren’t enforcing the previous laws, why should we believe you will enforce the new laws. And you can tell the congress is selling us smoke and mirrors because they voted down an amendment that would have required us to secure the borders and enforce immigration laws before we should even consider amnesty and a guest worker program. As the WHO said, we won’t be fooled again!!
Also anyone in favor of a guest worker plan should have to answer these questions before it gets implemented.
1) What agency or agencies will be administering the guest worker program?
I assume it will be INS but INS is currently doing a horrific job enforcing
current laws and regulations. So it will need an enormous infusion of
funds or the creation of a new bureaucracy.
2) Is the guest worker program open for illegals already in country or for
new wokers not currently in country? Is this guest worker plan open to
every country in the world or is this strictly limited to south american
labor?
3) How will illegal immigrants take part in the guest worker program?
Will they be able to apply in-country or will they have to go to their
home country and apply?
4) Who will be able to apply, single men, men and woman, married
couples with children? What happens if the guest worker gets
pregnant and has a child or a guest worker fathers a child in-country?
5) What industries will be able to use guest workers?
6) How will employers place orders for guest workers?
7) I have heard proposals for up-to 1.5 million guest workers, once the
number has been set, will it be hard or soft cap?
Will the documentation list their country of origin, place of residence, and guest
worker occupation?
If a guest worker is fired or his job eliminated, will he have to leave the country
or will he be able to pursue a new guest worker occupation?
9) How will we keep track of the guest workers and make sure employers use
authorized guest workers only?
10) How long will a guest worker be allowed to participate in the program
before he must return to his home country?
11) Will they be allowed to pursue permanent status in-country or will they
have to return to their home country and apply?
12) What sort of boarder enforcement will be implemented?
May 17th, 2006 at 12:35 pmWe can’t have a guest worker program and still have hundreds
of thousands of illegals streaming across the boarder.
I fundamentally agree with what you’re saying, Misha. I think your idea of a compromise is about the only one that would really work.
However this sort of thing can never happen. The pro-illegal factions tend to be too rabid for reasonable discussion… they want amnesty or nothing.
If only such a compromise solution, a cessation of mud-slinging, were truly possible.
The illegal immigration issue is literally splitting the country, and it even trancends party boundaries — I know many democrats who want them gone, and many republicans who want them to stay.
One thing I have noticed, however, is that those who want the illegals to be granted amnesty… never read Gibbon. Sometimes I think the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire should be mandatory reading for any politician or pundit.
The Mexican issue is far to similar to the massive settling of the Goths (who were not assimilated as Romans) in the Roman Empire c. 370 AD on up to the sack of Rome in 410 AD. It didn’t work out too well for the Romans, and I don’t think it will work out too well for us either.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:39 pmI don’t want to appear heartless, I understand that the mexicans and other south of the boarder types (this is really who we are talking about here), are trying to escape from total shit holes that thier nice little pinko bastard governments have built. I get that. But, I see this like we are in a life boat. We can only hold so many people. We just can’t open the doors wide or else the life boat sinks and we are all screwed. Liberals don’t seem to understand simple laws of physics, so this probably explains why they have a come one come all approach.
Second, they are talking about MILLIIONS of people being allowed to come here to work jobs that “Americans just won’t do”, as if we have not ever done our own damn heavy lifting before! I work next door to Microsoft, and I can tell you that Bill Gate$$$ is just drooling to take a boat to India and pick up a few million hindus to come back and work at Microsoft (while nice qualified guys like me get ignored). Don’t get me wrong, I’m working on anohter friggin degree right now just to be able to TRY and keep a job in IT.
Illegals are now working skilled jobs, doing work that Americans used to do. They are doing bricklaying, carpentry, plumbing, and doing it for under the cost of the traditional American worker. Great if you need a new roof, bad if you are the guy on the hammer. What bluebloods and liberals don’t consider is that the reason Americans “Just won’t do” these sorts of jobs is because of the downward preasure on wages that the illegals bring to the argument.
The self same liberals that demand a sky high minimum wage, also advocate for all this nice cheap labor from illegals. What’s the goddam point then in even having minimum wage laws, OSHA laws, and any other law that regulates workplace health and safety if it’s a selective enfforcement issue? This isn’t Europe. We expect laws to be followed by everyone, not just people we want to. We go that direction, and we get nothing more than Europe/Mexico redux. If the light of America is extinguished, there is nothing left. I see illegals as a symptom of a greater cause. I just pray that we understand this in time.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:41 pmhref=”http://www.kfdm.com/engine.pl?station=kfdm&id=14706&template=pagesearch.shtml”>
Saw this on Drudge. 18.00 an hour and they can’t find qualified workers in TEXAS!!!! for 18.00 an hour???? HORSESHIT! They will probably pay them less than that, and work them 60 hours a week. This is why I don’t like all this “Cheap Mexican Labor” bullshit. We have standards in this friggin country. They want cheap exploitable labor, move the plant to Mexico.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:53 pmFlame me if you want, but the only way this country can cope with the influx of immigrants is to go completely laissez-faire capitalist. No social “safety-hammocks”, no idiotic minimum-wage laws (that drive up prices and create unemployment), no handouts for anyone (individuals and businesses alike). Creating more government offices and hiring more bureaucrats to suck up taxes to cope with the problem is useless, and will do nothing but harm.
Sure, some people come here to work and build a better life. But a great number of people comes here to be parasites. They embed themselves here and feed on the productive individuals, while pushing for more and more socialism, until this place is sucked dry and resembles the shitholes they came from. It is impossible to hunt down every parasite and send him packing. The only way to get rid of them is to drain the feeding trough.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:56 pmExcuse me, I had a typo above. It should be laissez-faire, of course.
[For you, beloved N@, you need only have asked. (mischivous, lecherous grin) :-) -S]
May 17th, 2006 at 1:01 pmI’m hearing alarming things about the currently proposed US Senate bill, “The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act,” S.2611. Apparently it will increase the number of legal immigrants per year from one million people to five million people, a large increase. And it widens the definitions of “temporary” immigrants and widens the definitions of “near-permanent” immigrants, and, mathematically, should lead to an increase in legal immigration by around 103 million people in the next 15 years. Very high numbers.
Good analysis found at The Heritage Foundation online:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
Does anybody know where I can find (online) a full-text copy of CIRA (S.2611)?
Thanks.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:03 pmeric90230,
Search for that bill on THOMAS — it’a a service of the Library of Congress that makes Congressional record publicly available online, along with the content of all bills past and present. It’s really a wonderful research resource.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:24 pmClarion,
Wow, thank you. That’s a great website.
Of course, one minute into my reading this Senate Bill, the legalese put me to sleep. Thank goodness for the Heritage Foundation online.
And thank goodness for NiceDoggie.com! Is this a great empire, or what?!
May 17th, 2006 at 1:37 pmban Mariachi and Ranchero music; they’ll all go home shortly thereafter
May 17th, 2006 at 1:56 pmThis county uesed to be known as “The land of tall pines and pink tomatoes” Now there are places here that cannot be distinguished from mexico.
Throughout the ’70’s and 80’s the mexicans moved in on the various farming jobs in the county, thus upping the unemployment rate in an already depressed area of the country.
During the ’90’s they moved in on the logging industry, raising the unemployment rate even more among unskilled or beginning workers.
Then the exodus started from our county.
The young, unable to find work, have been moving away from this county for several years, now. There are now more illegal mexicans in the town of Hermitage than either blacks or whites.
The instance of DWI has risen on our highways, by at least 10 fold. We have had 5 rapes and 4 murders already this year( all involving illegal mexicans) in a county with a population of under 50,000.
Almost ALL the voting public here vote Republican. We’ve written time and again to he reps, the governor, and the president about this problem. Not ONE of these cowardly pices of offal have even bothered to write back, much less look at the problem. Tempers are starting to fray here, I’m concerned that there might be a reconing if things aren’t fixed, soon and right.
May 17th, 2006 at 2:27 pmand by the way, in my youth I picked, graded, packed, and loaded tomatoes for several years. Hell, I bought my first pickup with money I eaned from working on farms.
No one can tell ME there are jobs Americans won’t do, if they pay and actual wage most REAL
May 17th, 2006 at 3:04 pmoops!
most REAL Americans will shovel shit with their bare hands.
What these idiotic congress critters don’t understand is what its like to be raised poor in a poor area of the Nation. Perhaps we should take a different tack when voting, vote for no “trust-fund babies” or anyone born with a silver spoon in his/her ass.
There MUST ne some payback for this betrayal, and I intend to see to it!
May 17th, 2006 at 3:10 pmsounds like Axe Handles ‘R Us is going to be doing some brisk business
May 17th, 2006 at 4:10 pmNice try, Misha! Good luck with any compromising. The lines are drawn, on immigration and other things as well. There are too many who hate this country and will do what they can to destroy it and establish the utopian, socialist nirvana their college profs and idiot parents told them about. To hell with them!
May 17th, 2006 at 4:32 pmThe real problem, and not one pol will talk about it,
is that Mexico is a shithole! They have resources and the people who would work to build that country yet all the riches go to just a very few and the rest have no chance. So they come here to suck our country dry. The people we should be having stay in this country are the foreign students who get educated and must leave because the quotas are full. How fooking stupid is that to send ambitious, educated people who want to be citizens the hell away and invite people who don’t speak our language and just want to send money back home and sponge off our economy to stay.
We have the people to do the work if we stop the entitlement programs and get them off their porches where they wait for the mailman to deliver their monthly “paycheck”.
I’m seeing the epitaph “liberal” being hurled around, but I’m not sure this is a liberal/conservative issue. My wife and I are lifelong lefties, but it’s just common sense to us that a country must have secure borders. It’s also common sense that those who have broken our laws should not profit from it.
But Misha really nails it by bringing up the one facet of this issue that you rarely hear about in the MSM or the blogs: there must be penalties for employers who hire illegals. This is one of many places where our government toils in the service of its corporate benefactors, at the expense of the American citizen. Cheap labor is a wonderful thing for an employer; without proper government oversight, most employers won’t do the right thing, they’ll do the profitable thing. This is one reason why us libs believe in government regulation.
If an illegal can’t get hired, he/she will go home. It’s that simple.
May 17th, 2006 at 4:33 pmWhat’s to negotiate?
Either the wetbacks are criminal invaders or they are not…
May 17th, 2006 at 5:02 pmThere are two key points ignored by the “immigration supporters”. First, all illegals are not Latins working in jobs Americans won’t do. Some are terrorists and some are taking jobs from Americans. Let’s not stereotypically think about some poor hard working Mexican guy when we think about illegals and that we should feel sorry for them.
Second, there are thousands of LEGAL immigrants abiding by the laws of immigration and spending years in the system working to get their green cards. Giving illegals (crimminals) a fast path around these other people playing by the rules is ridiculous. Some illegal should get residency easier and faster than somebody within the legal system? That is nuts. Furhermore implementing a program that further strains INS resources so these legals have to suffer greater wait times is also crap!
May 17th, 2006 at 5:03 pmMorning Reading…
Update (5:04 p.m.): That was a nice break. Back to what I do. Well, the Senate got the job half done. It stinks, but what can you do? I don’t know how they plan to build that “triple-layered” fence, but it needs to be a serious piece…
May 17th, 2006 at 5:16 pmI agree with Misha’s sentiments.
On the issue of illegal aliens I’m not willing to compromise. The only thing in the middle of the road are yellow striped politicians and road kill. If we had the will as we did in the Manhattan Project we could seal up the borders in a day and secure them for good in a month. Sure a few would get through but that’s not a basis to abandon a wall. The reason there is no action by our spineless senate and illegal alien bootlicking President is because they are Hell bent on selling out Americans. Period.
6,000 national guardsmen split into shifts to aid the border patrols is an insult and a big fuck you to those of us who care about our sovereignty. Every one of those Republican senate dregs that voted no on border security should not only be thrown out of office but also thrown out of the country. Those shitstains are not Republicans or Conservatives; they are sellouts.
Secure the damn border then we’ll debate about the illegals here and future immigration.
I will say this regarding “guest workers”. I see this as a rouse to continue the flow of illegals and cheap labor into this country that will ultimately destroy the middle class and socialism will rule the day. I see countless of illegals on street corners soliciting work, at the parking lots of Home Improvement centers, near industrial areas and throughout the city of Los Angeles. If there are more jobs to be filled then use these masses of unemployed. Why the hell would we import more cheap labor when there are many here who are unemployed? Stop all immigration for the next 5 years until we get a handle on this debacle. We have 20 million illegals here already not to mention those that have come legally recently. There is no shortage of able bodies for these jobs that Bushito says we need “guest workers” for. Obviously get those that entered legally employed first, pull the able bodies off of welfare and get them working and only then do we consider filling the remaining vacant jobs with illegals.
None of the illegals should be given citizenship and should not be allowed to vote. They can live here and work as legal aliens but citizens they are not. Once the border is secured all criminals and their family members should be deported. All gang members and their families should be deported. And I don’t care whether the poor parents whine about how they couldn’t control little deviant Chico. Too fuckin’ bad. You’re outa here. Once we gain some sanity over the illegal scourge then we can sit and pontificate till we’re blue in the face with what to do further. America does not take in immigrants because it is good for the immigrant; we take them in because it is good for us. And a race to the bottom by flooding us with third worlders is not good for America regardless how you spin it.
May 17th, 2006 at 5:28 pmAnd, of course, the government bureaucrats will do the right thing?
May 17th, 2006 at 6:48 pmThis is the problem and the contradiction that leftists deliberately ignore: if people, in general, are a rotten lot, by what magic a politician becomes different from them? Are politicians some sort of “superior beings”? Besides, pray tell, where did government oversight do any good, ever?
The bumbling government buffoons here in Indiana have to lease even the damn roads to private entities in order to maintain them properly.
Also, a minor quibble, but an epitaph is a paragraph in honor of a recently deceased individual summing up and honoring their life, and bidding a final farewell to them.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:54 pmSecure the bloody border.
Forbid illegals from welfare benefits and welfare medicine.
Anchor babies can either be given up for adoption or return at age 18.
Make green cards easy … speak English, stay off welfare, and have a clean record.
Make deportation really easy. Annoy anyone, and you are gone.
Allow the IRS to triple tax wages for illegals after the fact, collectable from the idiot the work was done for.
Why is this so hard to figure out?
May 17th, 2006 at 7:29 pmI was beginnin’ to think I’d be tossed out on my ass if I said anything regarding your recent posts on illegal immigrants, Sire. Not that I disagree with you, but I’m not in the “shoot to kill” camp. Nice post.
May 17th, 2006 at 7:31 pmIf one has principle, one must be blind to expediency.
And this whole issue has “expedience” written all over it!
Either we’re a nation governed by the rule of law, or we’re not.
Either we’re living with a government who rules by “the consent of the governed” or we’re not.
Either we have national sovereignty by means of borders, or we don’t.
Either we ENFORCE EXISTING IMMIGRATION LAWS, or we don’t.
(we don’t!)
Either we have a system which allows people to immigrate to America legally or we don’t.
Either we’re in the midst of a War on Terrorism where people want us DEAD and likely already LIVE in the U.S. thanks to lax border security, or we’re not.
Either our elected officials actually FUND the necessary programs to keep the United States secure, or they don’t.
I urge all REAL Americans to BOMBARD their Senators daily, hourly, whatever it takes, to make sure that they both UNDERSTAND what’s at stake here (you know, little things like national sovereignty, national security, the rule of law) - and ALSO make them understand that there will be utter HELL to pay come November!
May 17th, 2006 at 8:21 pmAnd, of course, the government bureaucrats will do the right thing?
This is the problem and the contradiction that leftists deliberately ignore: if people, in general, are a rotten lot, by what magic a politician becomes different from them? Are politicians some sort of “superior beings”? Besides, pray tell, where did government oversight do any good, ever?
The bumbling government buffoons here in Indiana have to lease even the damn roads to private entities in order to maintain them properly.
“And, of course, the government bureaucrats will do the right thing?” Oh hell no. At least not always. But sometimes they do.
“Besides, pray tell, where did government oversight do any good, ever?” Well, civil rights in the ’60s comes to mind. National parks and forests would be another. There’s a wonderful wilderness area near where I live that would have been turned into lawn furniture by now if government hadn’t done the right thing.
It’s imperfect, PN, sometimes horribly so. But as regulation and oversight was done away with, starting in the ’80’s, the middle class started its downward slide. If you can’t see the immigration issue as a subtext of corporatism gone wild, then you’re not lookin’.
Liberal/Conservative, Dem/Repub are phony labels, distractions, “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.” There are damn few true liberals left, and I don’t see many real conservatives around either. What I see are globalists. Bill Clinton was as big a globalist as Bush 1, Bush 2, or Reagan, just as complicit in selling us down the river.
And you’re correct…. “epithet.”
May 17th, 2006 at 8:41 pmYou are a veritable chameleon of contradictions, Sire. The smidge of salt in any decent cake batter; the spoonful of sugar in many a marvelous marinara.
(Hey You’re right, btw; alliteration IS catching!)
Reasoned, reasonable, and eloquent; VERY.
Now, if you could just staple all their tongues to their chins and hogtie them long enough to make them listen to what you wrote…..;-) Maybe there’d be a chance yet at some frank discourse with the opposing side on this issue.
Once their wounds healed…
May 17th, 2006 at 8:44 pmNot in the least, dear. My POV hasn’t changed. But now that the righteous and justified venting is done with, it’s time to roll up our sleeves and see if there’s anything to be done with the mess.
I fear there isn’t, but I believe in at least taking a look first before I dump it in the sewer. If we can reach a compromise that everybody can live with, great. If we can’t, then so be it, the war is on. But in order to find out we have to talk first, and talking isn’t easy when one is pissed off.
Oh, I’m still angry, but it’s not so much the “fuming, spitting nails and kicking people in the nads” variety anymore. It’s the coldly determined kind.
Whether that’s good or bad we’ll find out, won’t we?
May 17th, 2006 at 9:07 pmSince I live in McKinney, Texas I wrote both my senators, and told them that if it is too hard for them to uphold their oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, I would be more than happy to vote them out of office. I also said I was tired of the whining, “there are too many to deport”, and that I bet if 11 million citizens decided not to pay federal income taxes the government would have no problems with “deporting” them to prison.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:14 pmSorry I missed this post the first time, Rhi, and thanks.
OK, one more time for the record (not directed at you specifically, Rhi, this is for general consumption):
This is NOT one of “those blogs” where you have to toe the “party” line to be accepted. This is not one of “those blogs” where we engage in a self-obsessed orgy of ceremonial “delinkings” whenever anybody we used to like disagrees with us.
Never has been, never will be for as long as I’m in charge.
Yes, if you post something that rubs a lot of people the wrong way you can expect some withering retorts, because we sorta like people to say what they really mean. On the other hand, you’re perfectly free and encouraged to reply in kind.
As a matter of fact, that’s my whole philosophy: Reply in kind. If somebody posts something that I think is completely asinine, but does so in a well-mannered, polite fashion, then I too will reply in as well-mannered and polite a fashion as I’m capable of. If I fail to do so because I’m having a particularly bad day and instead unload a semi’s worth of manure on the hapless poster’s head, then I fully expect people, friends especially, to alert me to my faux pas in whatever fashion they deem that I’m deserving of.
I’m not always right and I’m most certainly not always fair, but I try. People telling me honestly when I fail in either or both are helping me become better at it. Sure, I may not always take it that way initially, but then you just have to dig out a bigger ClueBat.
I’ll still respect you in the morning.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:42 pmI assure you Sire, I didn’t think it HAD. Not once.
You’ve demonstrated on numerous occasions that you are capable of ‘out of the box’ thinking; whenever I think we might possibly have You pegged, You segue off to look at something from a different approach. You zig, in short, instead of zagging. Not a change of mind, but a gander from a different angle. Shows your repertoire is pretty damn deep.
If it was an hamfisted one on my part, it was intended as compliment, nonetheless. I don’t aim to offend (I thought the marinara reference was a dead giveaway, variety being the ’spice’ of life and all that ;-))those I respect.
Er, that’d be you, btw.
And this I do know,
A coldly determined Emperor is the most dangerous kind of all….
May 17th, 2006 at 9:56 pmNo offense taken, none whatsoever. Well, except at myself for having maybe misunderstood you slightly.
How can being unpredictable possibly be an insult?
Well, unless it is unpredictability of the schizophrenic kind.
And thanks for the kind words.
May 17th, 2006 at 10:11 pmI have only commented on a handful of blogs and what I’ve noticed is that The Emperor™ is hands down the most tolerant and allows all to voice their opinions without fear of having their posts deleted and their views silenced. It is something I very much respect. I have had some of my posts deleted from conservative blogs and not because of language but rather a particular view I held. These same blogs also deleted many comments from liberal lunatics which I have no doubt would not have been deleted here but rather left for all to mock and ridicule; which is the proper approach.
Last week I left a couple of posts regarding immigration on a “conservative” blog that were deleted within 24 hours. This blog will go unnamed because the proprietor I believe is a friend of Misha’s. My comments were greatly toned down from what I say here but apparently I had the audacity to challenge this “Republicans” views on illegal aliens and their ramifications on this country. I was considered a racist and based on the blog owners view all of us here, including The Emperor™, are considered racists. The funny part is the self-righteous blowhard called us childish and in the same breath would act like a spoiled brat by deleting dissenting views. I mention this not out of disgust per se but to just highlight what a wonderful forum Misha has created here. I remember the first time I found this site; my reaction was….OH.MY.GOD….I am home…..[until Management™ gets tired of my rants, which hopefully isn’t any time soon;)]
Rotties™, a toast to The Empire™ and our host!
May 17th, 2006 at 10:22 pmFirst Point: Immigration is not “splitting the country”, unless the split you have in mind is between the politicians (who apparently want lots of Mexican pseudo - citizens) and the populace (who by a HUGE margin - 70%+ in most polls, even the MSM polls) want the borders secure.
What could be causing this?
1) There is a small but powerful Liberal Intellectual Radical Progressive cabal who will do everything they can think of to bollux up any real attempt to enforce the law on immigration. They already do, in fact. Almost any deportation is an uphill effort against do-gooders, state department twits who have forgotten which country they supposedly work for, and liberal judges abusing the system to create paralysis. Nobody in Washington really wants to confront these nitwits, for all the usual reasons.
2) End the flood of money going ‘home’ to Mexico, and what is left of the Mexican economy collapses, followed shortly by the Mexican government, and possibly the whole Mexican society. I think this is what Bush is wrestling with; that kind of mess on our southern border is obviously undesirable - arguably much worse than what we are dealing with in terms of the illegals. Certainly it would be a ripe recruiting and training ground for terrorism. Furthermore it is the kind of problem that cannot be mentioned openly - just bringing it into the open could bring about the very thing you wish to avoid.
The more I think about it, the more attractive military conquest of Mexico becomes. But that really IS politically impossible, so what we will do is something unsatisfactory, probably something half-assed, in the hopes that with time the problem will go away.
What we need is somebody willing to secure the border, deport the illegals, use whatever government powers necessary to break the backs of the ACLU, the Judicial scofflaws, and the State Department traitors, and then deal with the consequences. But we don’t elect such people to high office. It is something of a miracle that we got a President whose reaction to a direct attack was to go to war.
May 18th, 2006 at 12:19 amHow Do We Legalize Illegality?…
You know posts like this really tee me off. On Monday I said the vultures were out and of course they were just revving up, culminating into the usual feeding frenzy. So now if we disagree with the President on anything, it’s labeled “Bush cult impea…
May 18th, 2006 at 2:28 amDon’t thnk he really needs to worry about this, what would it take , a bloated regiment, to turn Mexico int a US protectorate?
May 18th, 2006 at 3:54 amI tend to think you’re pretty safe there, Apolloyon. I get the feeling Management™ tends to like what you have to say.
May 18th, 2006 at 6:47 amWell, I have to agree with your program suggestions, since they seem to be a concatenation of the serious suggestions I’ve made at twc, though in a muuuch more moderate tone than I’ve yet been able to manage.
Of course, I’d prefer a much more striongent approach: slapping ALL employers of illegal aliens in irons, working them at hard labor for 20 years (or until they die in irons, whichever comes first), no parole, after confiscation of the businesses they own/run… REALLY dry up the illegal alien job market. Cut off ALL social safety net programs to illegals. Starbe ;em out.
THEN declare war on Mexico, seize ALL assets of the “ricos” kakistocracy, rape the land of its respources and then hand it back with a “Don’t f**k with us again, y’hear?” and close the door in the 100′ HIGHLY militarized 2,000-mile long wall behind us as we leave, turning out the lights.
Yeh, despite knowing that the program you outline is eminently do-able, fair, just, equitable and proper, I’d prefer kicking Mexico’s teeth in, pour encourager les autres, as it were… all the others who also shove their disease-ridden, poverty-stricken illiterates off on the U.S., as the Mexican government does by policy (aiding and abetting in the alien invasion with military incursions onto U.S. soil, publication of booklets with instructions on how to slip into the U.S. illegally, etc.–all acts that are casus belli.)
But yeh, moderating our tone and simply dealing is probably better.
For now.
The REAL answer to the border control mess is National Potomoc Day, when the entire country would be invited to descend upon D.C. and dunk political poltroons and bureaucraps in the Potomoc until they have “come to Jesus” moments, see the light and start acting in the best interests of the CITIZENS of this country.
Call it a Potomoc Tea party, cos the water sure would turn brown…
May 18th, 2006 at 9:15 amWho are they?…
“Alex, I’ll take ‘Red Square for President’ for $2,000.”
……
May 18th, 2006 at 10:36 amThanks for your response, montysano! Nice to have another individual with a different view (in addition to the Imperial Tech Wizard™) hanging around here.
I happen to agree with you about the “corporatism gone wild” part: certain large business owners make sure their bought politicians do their bidding and allow them to commit all sorts of abuses. But don’t you think that the only way this became possible is because the government became more and more involved in controlling business in the first place? Separation of business and government would do something akin to a miracle as far as curbing “corporatism gone wild”.
As for you crediting the government with success in the human rights arena… I can argue, first of all, that basic individual rights do not come to us from the government. The right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is yours by virtue of you being human. The government cannot give you rights. It can only violate the ones you already have or refrain from doing so. Politicians, in fact, were not leading in the rights department. They followed the people. I suspect it was not love for fellow man or sudden enlightenment that led politicos to change their tune as far as rights go, it was expediency. They saw potential sources of votes, as yet untapped, huge segments of the population previously ignored that could bring politicos more power, and went for it when the time was ripe. They simply knew that if they stuck to their old ways, power would not be theirs much longer. It’s kind of like a business strategy, where to increase profits you look for new markets. Businesses, on their end, abandoned certain discrimination practices and other wrongdoings not because the bureaucrats told them so. They simply saw untapped sources of more money.
Finally, your seeming disdain for the profit motive puzzles me, but I may be wrong to assume that, since you probably do productive work, and enjoy a good standard of living–because you earn a profit for what you do.
How come an individual motivated to improve his life by producing and selling a good or a service others may be interested in buying is somehow immoral, yet an individual motivated by a desire for power over others, for control over their lives, desires, habits and choices is moral?
Sorry I sort of derailed this thread, but I wanted to answer you. I have less respect for politicians than I do for any other petty kind of human vermin, and I trust them less than broke crackheads.
May 18th, 2006 at 9:42 pmReasoned and doable, Misha.
Today, as the Senate continues to kill any Amendments that seek to contain full-blown AMNESTY, and as mindless Bush supporters continue to make excuses for him, I’m reminded of how utterly distasteful the lukewarm can be.
May 19th, 2006 at 1:58 pm