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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Lichtblau And Risen: If “Treason” Is Still A Word With Legal Meaning…

Then this one’s for you.

62 Responses to “Lichtblau And Risen: If “Treason” Is Still A Word With Legal Meaning…”
  1. Unregistered Comment by twolaneflash UNITED STATES

    A two-holer! Drop those big shits right in. No “paper work” required.

  2. Unregistered Comment by twolaneflash UNITED STATES

    This structure built from “The Tree of Liberty”, recently refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants. We know which blood is on your hands, NY Crimes.

  3. Unregistered Comment by Useless UNITED STATES

    I honestly don’t think that treason can even be conducted in today’s liberal environment. Libs would argue that this government is not legitamate, and boosh is too soft to actualy push for treasonous bastards to be tried. Too friggin bad. Maybe it’s time for libs to bleed a little for what they think is important, or fucking stop trying to make it out that boosh=Hitler and America is the 4th Reight.

  4. ORWAC86 Comment by ORWAC86

    It should me a military firing squad with Lt Cotton in charge.

  5. Unregistered Comment by Jakealope UNITED STATES

    Nice to see you transfered your brutal, tyrannical thinking so well from far left communism to far right fascism Misha

  6. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Useless (#3) says: “I honestly don’t think that treason can even be conducted in today’s liberal environment“…

    Boh! Oh boy! You’ve said a mouthful there!

    I think when there was a chance for a high profile indictment & conviction back during the Nam war with Hanoi Jane but there was no follow through by the Justice Department…

    Now we have what we have…

    Libs would argue that this government is not legitamate, and boosh is too soft to actualy push for treasonous bastards to be tried“…

    Well the sour grapes left-tards have been saying that since Bush beat Gore…

  7. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    Jakealope, I tend to agree with you here: Misha is going way too far! I am 100% sure Al Qaeda’s camel fuckers perfectly knew Swift transactions were monitored by the US. Heck, I have been working many years in computer security and networking, and trust me, I have learned everything about the very complex encryption systems they use daily for communicating. As a matter of fact, these terrorists give the NSA specialists a very hard time!!! To believe these guys were informed by the NYT is to UNDERESTIMATE THE ENNEMY! PERIOD!

    And to believe the NYT is “guilty of treason” is to embrace fascism! Period!

  8. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Yet another fool who didn’t grow a pair, arkham whines the following but offers nothing to back it up: “Misha is going way too far! I am 100% sure Al Qaeda’s camel fuckers perfectly knew Swift transactions were monitored by the US. Heck, I have been working many years in computer security and networking, and trust me, I have learned everything about the very complex encryption systems they use daily for communicating. As a matter of fact, these terrorists give the NSA specialists a very hard time!!! To believe these guys were informed by the NYT is to UNDERESTIMATE THE ENNEMY! PERIOD!“…

    Yeah! Sure you have… Got any other fairy tales for us panderer to terrorist towel heads?

    Heck! You can’t even keep up with what has been happening let alone what is happening one can hardly believe you know the difference between a computer and a cowpie…

  9. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    “Heck! You can’t even keep up with what has been happening let alone what is happening one can hardly believe you know the difference between a computer and a cowpie…”

    Sure! You want my CCIE id, you morron? Go ahead: ask me any CCIE related question you want if you want to check my “expertise”…

    All I meant was: ONE REALLY MUST BE A FOOL TO BELIEVE ANY AQ TERRORIST DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT THE FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS BEING MONITORED!

    “You can’t even keep up with what has been happening let alone what is happening”

    It is possible I don’t know all the details indeed! I do have a job you know…

    Anyway, I don’t want to fall in the “troll” category! Just wanted to bring one point, which I believe is valid! You don’t want your press (I am not a US citizen) to be free! So be it! Embrace fascism if you please!

  10. Unregistered Comment by Lord Daealdric UNITED STATES

    Useless:

    Maybe it’s time for libs to bleed a little for what they think is important, or fucking stop trying to make it out that boosh=Hitler and America is the 4th Reight

    Come on, everyone knows Israel is the 4th Reicht, we’d just have to settle for being the 5th. /sarc off

  11. crusader coyote Comment by crusader coyote

    It may be the terrorists already knew what we were doing, and so this story wasn’t anything new or useful to them. But we don’t know that. The last thing any sane, rational person should be doing is assuming that “the enemy already knows what I know, so no harm if I blab it all over the place.”

    Don’t give them any help. We do know (And I’m sorry, I can’t remember where I read this–coffee hasn’t completely kicked in yet– so if someone else does, please help out with a link) that AQ watches our media. But we [as civilians] don’t know what they know outside of that. So maybe, anyone who actually gives a flying crap about the lives of our soldiers and their neighbors ought to, in the words of that great poster, take a big cup of shut the hell up.

    And, finally, there is nothing facist in keeping secrets secret. Divulging state secrets has — for centuries– been seen as an act of treason, punishable by death. Nothing facist in obeying the law. Moreover, nothing facist in wanting to see this venerable law upheld and enforced.

    And that is why everyone has their panties in a bunch. Because nothing frosts our collective bottoms worse than a bunch of self-righteous, preening, Judas-bitches stabbing us in the back and then simpering, “Oh, it’s for your own good!”

    hn. whatever.

  12. Unregistered Comment by waltj

    All I meant was: ONE REALLY MUST BE A FOOL TO BELIEVE ANY AQ TERRORIST DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT THE FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS BEING MONITORED!

    There’s a huge difference between suspecting that transactions are monitored, and really knowing the exact mechanism by which it is done. If you don’t know the mechanism, any countermeasures you take will be hit or miss, since you’re not sure what is being looked at, when, or how. If you do know, however, you can design specific methods to defeat the monitoring. What the NYT has done is to give AQ and its allies the mechanism, and that is why I condemn the Times for its treasonous actions.

    It looks to me like the Treasury officials answered the most significant of the NYT’s questions: the monitoring regime was legal, it specifically targeted terrorists, it had bipartisan support, and it had an independent auditor. Where, then, is the “public interest” in revealing a legal, successful, and most importantly, ongoing, intelligence program, whose very success depends upon it remaining secret? Secretary Snow got it right: there’s also a “public interest” in safeguarding the U.S. from terrorist attack, a point which the NYT missed (and not for the first time).

  13. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    “There’s a huge difference between suspecting that transactions are monitored, and really knowing the exact mechanism by which it is done.”

    Good point! However, let me add something:

    1) It is fairly common knowledge all financial (inter-banking) transactions are “routed” on one single-centralized platform (swift)…

    2) Although I can’t reveal any details without breaking confidential agreements (or worse…) with my previous employer, let me tell you most of the “tools” that are being used by the NSA (and/or the CIA) to monitor computer-networks traffic are common knowledge nowadays among the hackers newsgroup on the internet. Anyone who ever visited “astalavista” or anyone able to make a google search on the security newsgroups will quickly learn about these monitoring “tools” implemented inside every computer network… So, anyone with half a brain and some computer security skills will quickly get the big picture… I did, altough I’ve never worked directly for the CIA or NSA…

    So, again, to assume the terrorist didn’t know for sure all these transactions were monitored is foolish! Because it is equal to “underestimate the ennemy”. These guys are pretty smart you know…

    “Where, then, is the “public interest” in revealing a legal, successful, and most importantly, ongoing, intelligence program, whose very success depends upon it remaining secret?”

    Because it really only was a secret for the general public! And, as a libertarian, let me tell you I don’t really trust the US government or any government whatsoever when they claim they restrict their monitoring activities to “specifically target terrorists”… if you see what I mean…

    It’s a bit like the gun controls policy in Europe: if you forbid anyone to own a gun, you simply make sure only the bad guys have some. The innocent citizen will not and will eventually be the victim!

    Bottom line: never trust politicians or any sort of governments! There should be NO restrictions to the freedom of the press!

  14. Unregistered Pingback by Grouchy’s Liberaltopia » All the news that’s fit to print UNITED STATES

    […] The Rottweiler has called this action by the Times “Treason”. […]

  15. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    There should be NO restrictions to the freedom of the press!

    So once I track down your address, telephone number, where you work, where you wife works, where your kids go to school, whether they walk home, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseam…and decide to publish it - that’s okay, then?

    Remember…”There should be NO restrictions to the freedom of the press!”

  16. Unregistered Comment by Perro Malo

    In wartimes it should always be assumed that the enemy, (in this case AQ, and it’s supporters), will believe that they are being monitored.

    All I meant was: ONE REALLY MUST BE A FOOL TO BELIEVE ANY AQ TERRORIST DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT THE FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS BEING MONITORED!

    But it’s also true that you never, ever confirm it to be true, and especially never divulge the methods.
    During WW II the sailing times of passenger, troop and supply ships were classified, even though it was assumed that the enemy had spies watching harbors and ports and they would radio departures to the Axis. To have “leaked” such information about shipping, troop deployments and supply lines was considered treason, regardless of any arguments as to whether it was suspected the enemy “knew those things anyway”.

    I am 100% sure Al Qaeda’s camel fuckers perfectly knew Swift transactions were monitored by the US.

    Not necessarily: the evidence, (actually tracking some transactions), demonstrates that the terrorists didn’t know, or didn’t pay attention to their own, (superior, in your belief), knowledge, and continued using financial transctions that resulted in the disruptions of those financial transactions.

    In the computer field, (your area of expertise, according to you), you must be aware that Microsoft and other companies never release their source code even though they believe or suspect that it’s been hacked. Any person that worked for MS and “leaked” source code would still be guilty and subject to penalties even though they made the argument that “the code was already out there”. It’s a weak, weak defense.

  17. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    “So once I track down your address, telephone number, where you work, where you wife works, where your kids go to school, whether they walk home, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseam…and decide to publish it - that’s okay, then?

    Remember…”There should be NO restrictions to the freedom of the press!””

    Well, OK, you’ve got a point! :) The fact is I don’t think the press’ missions should include “breaking individuals’ right to privacy”… However, what I meant is that I believe it is the press’ mission to break inside and reveal governments little dirty secrets. The freedom of the press and democracy often go together, don’t you think so?

  18. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    “their own, (superior, in your belief), knowledge,”

    I never claimed nor believed their knowledge was superior! Quite the opposite in fact: the “encryption” techniques they use, for instance, are very old (many centuries old in fact)! But that doesn’t mean we can break them easily…

    Do I respect/admire these creeps? Not at all! But I think underestimating the ennemy isn’t the best way to fight it either… And compromising with our own values (like restricting the freedom of the press) is actualy like handing them the victory on a silver plate because that’s exactly what they wanted: to destroy our freedoms! That’s my humble opinion at least…

    “you must be aware that Microsoft and other companies never release their source code even though they believe or suspect that it’s been hacked.”

    And that is precisely why Windows is inherently LESS secure than any open source alternative BTW… How ironic…

    Speaking about “the tracking of the financial transactions”, does anyone know if any investigation about the illegal transactions (PUT options…) that occured right before 9/11 has ever produced any meaningful results so far? I would be very surprised to hear anything about these ;) All I know is that there hasn’t been any serious investigation so far…

  19. Unregistered Comment by LC Wes, Imperial Mohel

    The only thing wrong with that picture is that there should be two more nooses on the gallows: one for Bill Keller, and the other for Pinchy Sulzberger, Jr.

    Arkham: you’re either missing the point or deliberately ignoring it: Yes, there certainly are computer-literate jihadis out there. Dozens of jihadi websites and jihadi hacking attacks, like the recent denial-of-service attacks on the mu.nu blogs, make that perfectly clear. The problem is that you seem to be setting up a strawman argument by claiming that computer literacy automatically translates to mastery of the global banking system.

    You’re deliberately ignoring the fact that monitoring of the SWIFT network did lead authorities to one major Al Qaeda terrorist and helped trace and break up a number of AQ cells. Whether some terrorists may have had the knowledge to avoid or circumvent SWIFT is irrelevant. Thanks to the New York Times, now all of them do.

    “Where, then, is the “public interest” in revealing a legal, successful, and most importantly, ongoing, intelligence program, whose very success depends upon it remaining secret?” Because it really only was a secret for the general public!

    Well, duh! That’s where you generally find terrorist cells: hiding amidst the general public, masquerading as ordinary citizens. That’s why some things - like details of ongoing counterterrorist operations - have to be kept secret. Since even you acknowledge that the programs were legal, successful and narrowly targeted, then you would also have to conclude that the only people who would benefit from revealing it are the enemy. But hey, “information wants to be liberated,” right?

    This is where I, as someone with libertarian inclinations myself, part company with the liberals and many of today’s libertarians. In a war to the knife with millions of murderous death cultists…the Left and half the Libertarians - including you, Arkham, would rather fight George W. Bush. That was the true motivation of the Times in leaking this story.

    And that, Arkham - spiteful malice in pursuit of partisan political advantage and a Pulitzer Prize, without regard for the safety and security of their fellow Americans - is what makes this treason.

  20. Unregistered Comment by HSLD UNITED KINGDOM

    As a matter of fact, these terrorists give the NSA specialists a very hard time!!!

    So working in the European banking system makes you privy to what the NSA are doing and how well they are doing it ?
    And working in a bank always seemed so boring to me…

  21. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    ” To have “leaked” such information about shipping, troop deployments and supply lines was considered treason, regardless of any arguments as to whether it was suspected the enemy “knew those things anyway”.”

    Again: this is not a valid comparision in my opinion! I think the press’ mission is to serve the public by providing informations that really matters to the public! How could a leak about “top secrets ships/troops sailing time” be considered like valid/useful information to the public! It doesn’t impact the public whatsoever!

    However, revealing the fact anyone’s financial transactions can (and probably will at some point) be monitored is a perfect example of what the press’ mission is! Even today!

    Sure, you can say:”I don’t have anything to hide, so I don’t care”. But I do care: the “Big Brother” type of world we are trying to build in the name of “fighting terrorism” is rather scary in my opinion…

  22. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    “So working in the European banking system makes you privy to what the NSA are doing and how well they are doing it ?
    And working in a bank always seemed so boring to me…”

    Did I say I’ve ever worked in a bank? You read too much “between the lines”…

    In my opinion, it is best to attack the message, not to care too much about the messenger… I can’t give (because I don’t want to: not on the internet at least) you all the details about what I did and who I worked for! It is enough for you to know that I have quite some experience in this particular field!

  23. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    “You’re deliberately ignoring the fact that monitoring of the SWIFT network did lead authorities to one major Al Qaeda terrorist and helped trace and break up a number of AQ cells.”

    I honestly didn’t know about that! Gee, after all, I must admit these guys are much more stupid than I tought! :)

    Then of course, I understand better why you are “upset” (to say the least)! The good thing is: if these terrorists are that stupid, then we will win this war shortly, and that is good news for all of us!

    OK, I’m outta here: gotta go back to work :)

  24. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    Arkham: I’m not sure I understand your argument. On one hand, you don’t see the big hoopla because everybody knew about it already (how you know that everybody on the other side knew already I’ll leave up to you to prove), and then you say that freedom of the press is vital because we need the press to publish all of the government’s “dirty little secrets.”

    So was it public knowledge, or was it one of the government’s “dirty little secrets?”

    Oh, and what was “dirty” about it? It was legal, lawmakers were aware of it and briefed on it, lots of checks and balances were in place, including checks and balances NOT in the U.S. government, to make sure that it wasn’t a blank check to snoop in everything oh, and it was highly effective, which is somewhat surprising if all of the jihadis already knew about it down to the last detail, as you claim.

    It’s a good thing that the press of WWII wasn’t quite as devoted to the “public interest” as you are, or they’d have been splashing the fact that we’d broken Enigma all over the front page. After all, the German High Command sent a lot of coded messages regarding pickup times and transmission times of their agents in England and the U.S., all of them citizens of the countries they were spying on! Who’s to say that the OSS weren’t privy to completely innocuous information about perfectly innocent Britons and Americans as a result?

    Of course, the press back then (probably a bit nervous about FDR taking the Treason, Sedition and Espionage Acts seriously as well) decided that the lives of sailors as well as the vital lifeline of supplies going to the British were more important than their right to get Pulitzers.

    The fascist bastards!

  25. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    However, what I meant is that I believe it is the press’ mission to break inside and reveal governments little dirty secrets.

    The dirty  ones, yes.  The Abscam-type ones, yes.  The House Post Office-type scandals, absolutely.  All for that.

    Not the secrets that might lead to capture and/or killing of those Islamofascist ragheaded swine that mean us harm, no.

    I’m convinced there’s a difference.  Curious that you don’t seem to be.

    The freedom of the press and democracy often go together, don’t you think so?

    Often, yes.  But not always.

  26. Mrs. M Comment by Mrs. M UNITED STATES

    I think the press’ mission is to serve the public by providing informations that really matters to the public!

    I think you would best try to remember that the “public” would rather the press just keep it’s damn mouth shut. Also you conviently forget that we have sleeper cells everywhere. People who are trained to blend into the “public”. We’ve known for quite some time that the Presstitutes only serve their Liberal Masters, and they are NOT looking out for the Public Interest. Had this been Bill Clinton…there would be fucking crickets chirping so damn loud in the press rooms that you could hear them all the way down in Sydney. There would not have been one damn word said about this. They would have censored themselves in the name of “National Security”. All the while keeping their slimey lips pressed firmly to Clinton’s skanky ass.

  27. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    “On one hand, you don’t see the big hoopla because everybody knew about it already”

    Not exactly everybody: I’ve said every person having some expertise in those fields probably knew about it, especially if they really wanted to know… I, for one, was 99.9% sure Swift was being monitored for at least 4 years now. Was it 100%? No! But would I be a terrorist, I would never have taken any chance to rely on such a centralized international banking system! Spying upon ALL financial transactions has never been easier than today!

    Did I care about this? Not really for me (I have nothing to hide, financially speaking), but I am worried to see “Big Brother” becoming something else than fiction. That’s what worries me! And apparently I am the only one on this board ;) Not a problem tough: I said what I had to say and never intended to act/appear like a troll. Sorry if I did tough!

    “the Presstitutes only serve their Liberal Masters, and they are NOT looking out for the Public Interest”

    And that is very unfortunate! But all the press isn’t liberal yet in my opinion…

  28. Unregistered Comment by arkham

    “You’re deliberately ignoring the fact that monitoring of the SWIFT network did lead authorities to one major Al Qaeda terrorist and helped trace and break up a number of AQ cells”

    That is GOOD to know! I honestly didn’t know about that. I probably should read the press a little more ;)

    Then, what can I say? That I never tought these terrorists would be so stupid! The good news is: if they are so stupid, then complete victory over Al Qaida is only a matter of time… Because they will make many more mistakes!

    As a conclusion, I have to admit I was wrong and I understand better why you guys are so upset: the NYT really should have burried that story deep in their XXXXS! By revealing this monitoring activity to the world, they have indeed provided our (stupid) enemy some help, which is to be considered treason, I agree!

    I’m still worried about what I know is going on currently in terms of spying (Big Borther) capabilities provided to the NSA and CIA by the computer industry, but I guess I’m gonna have to live with it. In the meantime, gentlemen, I’ve got to go back to work. It was nice (and informative) to talk with you.

  29. Kristopher Comment by Kristopher UNITED STATES

    We’ve been through this before … the Imperial Japanese fleet’s submarines had a bad habit of hiding form deph-charge attacks at depth that were at even 50′ intervals … apparently their depth gauges were callibrated as such.

    A seaman bragged about this within earshot of a reporter … a paper on the west coast printed a story about how the US Navy was sinking jap subs by setting charges at 50′intervals, from 100′ all the way down to 300′, to guarantee kills.

    Japanese subs started hiding at random depths immediately.

    Assuming that a bit of information is useless to the enemy during wartime is genberally a big mistake, and will cost lives … assuming that the enemy already knows something is just as big a mistake.

  30. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    Not a problem tough: I said what I had to say and never intended to act/appear like a troll. Sorry if I did tough!

    You most certainly didn’t/don’t.

    I appreciate your viewpoint and the fact that you take the time to argue it, even if I don’t agree with you. Actually, as far as the need to keep a close eye on government we don’t disagree at all. I’m a libertarian-leaning conservative myself. Where we seem to part ways is when you suggest that all leaks are “good” leaks. They aren’t, not when they hurt national security. If the government is doing something illegal, by all means shout it from the rooftops. I had and have no problem with Woodward/Bernstein and Deep Throat, for instance. Nixon broke the law, it needed to get out. Any attempt to squish that story would’ve been an attempt to keep Nixon from facing the consequences of breaking the law, NOT an attempt to protect the Constitution and the citizens of these United States of America.

    But no laws were broken here, it was a program that had netted a number of high-ranking terrorists and it it much less likely to do so in the future now that the al-Qaeda Times has broadcast the details. Sure, the terrorist were undoubtedly aware that we were doing something to look over their shoulders, but they didn’t know what, exactly. The Germans were well aware that we were doing something sneaky when we kept popping up right over their U-Boats all the time, but they thought that we were tracking their radar detectors and all manner of other stupidity. They never figured out that it was because we were reading their radio comms. As a result, we kept finding them and sinking them while they were looking in all the wrong places. THAT’S how intel and counter-intel works and, frankly, the al-Qaeda Times aren’t qualified to make those calls.

    (Oh, and if your comments seem to appear/disappear randomly, it’s because you’re a new commenter and a quite prolific one at that. Nothing wrong with that. But the stupid spamfilter tends to flag your comments as “possible spam”, which means that they’re in moderation until I can kick SK2 in the nuts and tell it that you’re legit. This problem will disappear as soon as I’ve kicked it enough times, which I will :) )

    Anyway: I don’t see you as a troll. Not at all. Please argue as much as you like, you’re welcome here.

  31. Mrs. M Comment by Mrs. M UNITED STATES

    but I am worried to see “Big Brother” becoming something else than fiction.

    You speak as though this is just another Eeevil Bush/Rove/Cheney/Halliburton/Fasicist/RightWing invention. “Big Brother” is happening all over the world as we speak and it would have whether 9/11 happened or not. Look at the UK. Monitoring when, where, and for how long you drive your car? Developing a Database that actually monitors children’s upbringing in their homes to ensure that they are being “raised” properly? (still looking for the damn article on that one). You seem to think that American’s are the only ones being put under the microscope. Fraid not.

  32. Unregistered Comment by Flaming Liberal UNITED STATES

    Reporters are not - inherently - the enemy of freedom, kids. They are in fact, to all true Americans, important guardians of our liberty. That said - they need to be held to account. Just like Congress and just like the President.

    Regular posters will recognize my moniker. I make no apologies. I also think there have to be lines. There have to be consequences. If the NY Times jumped across the line, they need to be called on it.

    There is another side to this, though. Ask yourself - and take the hate filter out of your mouth first - why did they publish it? Despite your hate and anger, they take their work and their obligations very seriously. There’s really only one logical answer - and no, it’s not sympathy for the murderous jihaidis.

    Bush has once again ignored the law simply because it’s inconvenient. He and Gonzales are lazy. We are a nation of laws - without that we’re just the jihadis with better weapons and hotter women (which aren’t, it must be said, bad things to have…).

    But Bush did - he simply did - break the law with the NSA wiretaps. And the MADDENING thing is that he didn’t have to. He could have run it by the FISA court OR ask Congress to change the law. They would have if he’d asked. But you don’t govern the USA by just doing what you want and screw the laws. That’s why we’re (still) here after 230 years.

    Same with this - it appears. Bushco could have asked for official Congressional approval, and there are plenty of confidential, top-secret approvals of that sort. If he’d had one, Congress would have had to step up and say “well, we already said it was OK, NYT, so fuck off.” Do you hear that? Bush was lazy with our freedoms - we have the right not to be monitored like that, spied on without due process - and he got called on it. The only - the ONLY - reason the NYT would have run the story was to force Congress to do the right thing.

    So did they? Of course not. It’s an election year; far easier to blame the messenger than to do your job in Congress.

    This NOT a black and white issue. The specific circumstances may be across the line - it’s too soon though and impossible right now to cut through the crap on both sides. The issue itself needs to be addressed here.

    But this “tree, rope, reporter; some assembly required” crap needs to be called out for what it is - fascist bullshit and plainly un-American.

    Stalin was real good at keeping reporters on the party line. He simply killed them if they didn’t write what they were told. Same with Hitler, same with Mao. Same with Kim Jong Il these days and yes, same with Saddam Hussein. You getting a pattern here?

    We, as citizens, have the responsibility to discipline the press when they cross the line. Just as with politicians, they - or more accurately, the editors and publishers they work for - are sensitive to public opinion.

    But it is just goddamn un-American, anti-freedom, to be against all reporters across the board. These guys are on our side! They need to be reminded of it and sure, they have assholes in their lot just like every other group. But if you love this country and the freedoms and personal liberty our soldiers have died for, for 230 years, you have to realize it’s a balance. And we have a role to play.

    So…fire away. Be angry at me and at the idiot reporter who, in this case may - may - have crossed the line. But you know I’m right.

  33. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson UNITED STATES

    Hey Juandos, why not e-mail me your current address……I’d like to meet a gutless son of a whore camel before I kick the shit out of him.

    hOOt

  34. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson UNITED STATES

    Flaming Lib…

    As a long time News Director in Radio and TV…I can assure you many fuckwads who call themselves “journalists” are the select enemies of freedom(depends on who is in power), and the sad part is…most are the lowest of the low, not all that bright, failures in much that they do, with egos the size of Hillary’s fat ugly thighs…..

    hOOt

  35. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson UNITED STATES

    One other thing Flaming Lib…time to flush that shit from your skull, you are a wasted anti-American marxist that needs a brain enema.

    And I doubt if anybody is angry, most here feel sorry for you, I am on serveral Mental Health boards and can help…just e-mail me.

    hOOt

  36. Mrs. M Comment by Mrs. M UNITED STATES

    Hey Juandos, why not e-mail me your current address

    Umm…Hoot….you think you got the right guy in your crosshairs there? I’ve already had to give juandos some neosporine for the last round of friendly fire he got hit with…my First Aid Kit is runnin kinda low here.

  37. Unregistered Comment by Flaming Liberal UNITED STATES

    hOOt G

    If you indeed were on several mental health boards - and I actually am on the Board that runs the Community Mental Health Board in our community - you would never make a remark like that.

    And of course there are idiots in radio. Empty shirts that are really what the British call them - “newsreaders” is the term. That’s why they’re in radio.

    Which means their News Directors are frequently idiots, too…

    So send your resume right over to Fox. I’m sure they have a home for you. No need for Actual Journalism there, either.

    But your crack about the mentally challenged is over the line. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I’m sure you’re not.

  38. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    But it is just goddamn un-American, anti-freedom, to be against all reporters across the board. These guys are on our side!

    They may be on your side, but they’re definitely not on mine.

    Or, to put it in another way: “What have they done for me lately?”

  39. Unregistered Comment by Flaming Liberal UNITED STATES

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060627/ap_en_ot/limbaugh_viagra

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

    But I thought this “reporter” WAS on your side!

  40. Mrs. M Comment by Mrs. M UNITED STATES

    But I thought this “reporter” WAS on your side!

    #1. He’s not a “reporter”.

    #2. I don’t think that having a bottle of Viagra (that was perscribed for him by his physician in the physician’s name to protect his privacy) in your luggage ranks up there with publically printing our security secrets to the Islamofuckers.

    #3. If that’s the best you can come up with then you need to get outside and get some fresh air. Your brain is starting to mold.

  41. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    Er, F.L.?

    I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to suggest here, but if it’s that I’m in any way about to defend Rush for breaking the law, you’re wrong. I don’t know what possessed him to do something stupid like that, but it’s his problem, not mine.

  42. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    But it is just goddamn un-American, anti-freedom, to be against all reporters across the board. These guys are on our side!

    Sorry Flamin’ TWEEEEEEEET Bullshit flag…15 yards and loss of down…

    In the past four years please explain to me how it is that “these guys are on our side” ….when in fact the press and media have:

    1.Tried to unseat a sitting U.S. President and influence a nation wide election based on forged documents.

    2. Blew (now 3 times) in the last year the cover off programs designed to thwart further terror attacks on U.S. Interests and it’s citizinary.

    3.Have given vastly unequal amounts of coverage to Anti War activisits Sheenhan, Moore, Saradon, Dixie Chicks etc… Pick the moonbat…

    4.Have relentlessly attacked the administration and by proxy the military even when things are going right, not that it does on a regular basis, but when it does mysteriously, like in the case of AlZoWIE’s perfectly executed demise less then 2 weeks after that sucess in the WOT they are blowing the cover off yet another classifed mission.

    5. Have unrelentlessly played up “atrocities by the U.S. Military in Iraq” and elswhere while nary a peep about the “insurgents” butchery of innocent Iraiqs.

    6. Published false and damaging reports of Abuses by the U.S. Military against the Koran, resulting in wide spread riots in the M. E.

    Nope no media Bias and treason here..move along folks move a long…isnt that how it goes FL?

  43. Unregistered Comment by Flaming Liberal UNITED STATES

    CiSSnarl5.7 (interesting moniker, btw),

    http://www.mediamatters.org

    Here’s yer BS flag, right back atcha!

    Don’t EVEN go there trying to suggest that the media, as a whole, is “the liberal media” anymore. Numbers don’t lie, well, OK, they do all the time. So does the right-wing-wackjob media.

    But you’re having fun, and no reason for facts to get in the way of a good story. I’ll even tee one up fer ya:

    You forgot Ted Kennedy.

    Knock yerself out.

  44. Unregistered Comment by Perro Malo

    arkham wrote:

    Sure, you can say:”I don’t have anything to hide, so I don’t care”. But I do care: the “Big Brother” type of world we are trying to build in the name of “fighting terrorism” is rather scary in my opinion…

    And I agree wholeheartedly that these are scary avenues that we have to go down, and I daily curse the murdering swine that push us in that direction. But I’d first like to see the MSM make a show of good faith by reporting things that support the average Joe, something that indicates to me that they are on my side of issues. As the metaphorical “fourth branch” of government, I’d want to see them change their stance from one that seems all too often to support enemies of the American people, into a view that’s supportive of the United States, it’s people and it’s institutions. By this I don’t mean blind cheerleading for our Government. I don’t expect them to be the propaganda wing, but neither do I expect them to undermine my elected officials, and their sometimes necessary secret methods.

    Exposing the intentions of Government is something that needs to be dragged into the light of day, but the details of how it’s being done isn’t always desirable.

  45. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    CiSSnarl5.7 (interesting moniker, btw),

    And oh mighty Oracle of truth (snicker) please grace me with your pyscho-anaylsis of my moniker..pretty please?

    MediaMatters? Your kidding me right? You’re going to refute my 6 examples with a link to a far left website only millimeters removed from a moonbat central like Democratic Underground..and thats the gosple truth? Ummm kay sparky it’s your story stick to it…

  46. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson UNITED STATES

    Falming Lib

    ****** Residental Services

    Board President 1993-1999
    Board Member 1999-Present

    Our Clients show much more courage and brain power than you’ll ever cram into that dung filled marxist skull of yours……

    If you feel the need for our websight and location feel free to e-mail the hOOt

  47. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson UNITED STATES

    Mrs M…

    You are of course right, in my rage at the former post and my laughing at the usefull idiot Flaming Lie-beral, I did indeed pick the wrong name…..glad I wasn’t using live bullets.

    hOOt

  48. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911 UNITED STATES

    mediamatters? Opinion site?

    Couldn’t find anything relevant, was that link meant to refute anything CiSSnarl5.7 posted?

    *sigh* Squib round dude. Try harder next post.

  49. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Seeing his manhood challenged arkham (#9) wailed: “Sure! You want my CCIE id, you morron? Go ahead: ask me any CCIE related question you want if you want to check my “expertise”…

    Well I guess I could but that would only prove that someone showed you how to have two web pages open at the sametime…:lol:

    Now we get to the supposition, probably the delusional supposition from arkham :”All I meant was: ONE REALLY MUST BE A FOOL TO BELIEVE ANY AQ TERRORIST DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT THE FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS BEING MONITORED!“…

    Hmmm, I’m betting the whites of your eyes are brown too… Not even a scintilla of anything let alone a credible bit of backing for this bizzare statement…

    I can see you don’t get out much and plainly know little of what you speak… These towel headed terrorists don’t even have a clue what toilet paper is until they land on the shores of a western civiliation…

    The arkham continues: “It is possible I don’t know all the details indeed! I do have a job you know…“…

    Well you must be quite the robust lad to be working 24/7… I applaud your alledged energy to work but I’m still mystified at your abysmal ignorance of not merely what has happened over the last thirty months but over the last thirty plus years…

    To the showers with you boy! Make sure you wash your hair so the dunce cap doesn’t slide off…

    BTW the speaking in terms of, “Maureen Dowdism” just reassures me that people like you really do need to grow a pair…

  50. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7 KUWAIT

    Couldn’t find anything relevant, was that link meant to refute anything CiSSnarl5.7 posted?*sigh* Squib round dude. Try harder next post.

    Mr. Cheapshot911…you have the conn sir. I am retiring to my quarters…(AKA it’s late in Q8 and work looms..I’m out)…night all~!

  51. juandos Comment by juandos UNITED STATES

    Well now! It seems that Sen. Pat Robertson is most definitely on the case of, “Unauthorized disclosures of classified information“…

    (hat tip to Instapundit)

    Good man!

  52. Unregistered Comment by Clarion

    I do not normally get into tussles like this, but I have to call bullshit on Arkham for this much:

    A CCIE has nothing whatsoever to do with security clearances, access to classified information, nor indeed does it relate to security or espionage in any way. It stands for Cisco Certified Internetworking Expert, and denotes accomplishments in the networking field. Tell me you have a CISSP and I might be more inclined to listen.

    However, just this once, I’ll bite: What’s your CCIE specialty?

  53. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    Er, everybody group-slamming on Arkham’s initial comments:

    Not that I’m in any way suggesting that you should agree with those (I didn’t agree with them myself), you can agree with and say anything you like around here as you all know but, in the interest of fairness, you might want to re-read his last comment in this thread in which he not only acknowledges the arguments but actually admits to having been wrong in his initial thoughts and appreciating the opportunity to hear the other side.

    Not that I’m suggesting that his arguments are only valid because he changed his mind, that’d be a load of bullshit because nobody has to do anything, but I do believe that it’s important to read everything that somebody has to say and not just jump on the bits that you disagree with.

    I think that Arkham deserves better. Keeping an open mind and actually debating, whether it changes your point of view or not, is a Good Thing.

    Just sayin’, ’s all.

  54. Unregistered Comment by Flaming Liberal UNITED STATES

    hOOt,

    Perhaps I need to frame this discussion of the imperative of a free press as a primary guarantor of liberty in terms more suited to the level of discourse here.

    Fuck you. :)

    That said, I do not doubt the courage of those you serve in Residential Services. I also do not doubt that the level of cognition in your commentary is a reflection of that environment.

    and CiSSnarl5.7, again to return to the indigenous argot, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about your handle, but I suspect it’s an interesting story. To you at least.

    As for MediaMatters, they are indeed delusional. They have this goofy process called “Information-Based Decision Making” that inhibits their providing more glandular responses. For that, you need Hannity or O’Reilly.

  55. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW UNITED STATES

    So, how’s the weather? :lol:

  56. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    I think that Arkham deserves better. Keeping an open mind and actually debating, whether it changes your point of view or not, is a Good Thing.

    Um, Sire, don’t know if you noticed this or not…but I actually did.  I’m kinda surprised no one had a coronary over it, truth be told. :-)

  57. Unregistered Comment by IB LC Lady Heather GLOR UNITED STATES

    Um, Sire, don’t know if you noticed this or not…but I actually did. I’m kinda surprised no one had a coronary over it, truth be told.

    I was thinking, “Here comes the ’say it to my face…’”… ;)

  58. Emperor Darth Misha I Comment by Emperor Darth Misha I UNITED STATES

    Um, Sire, don’t know if you noticed this or not…but I actually did. I’m kinda surprised no one had a coronary over it, truth be told. :-)

    You most certainly did, Spats, which actually almost caused a massive coronary ;-)

  59. Grits Comment by Grits UNITED STATES

    The mainstream media are first to demand the rights of a free press and freedom of speech, but the very last to acknowledge or accept the responsibilities that go with those freedoms. Until they are mature enough to do that, they are loose cannons and often enemies and not protectors of the nation.

    Grits

  60. Unregistered Comment by meatbrain

    Answer a simple question:

    What, exactly, was the top secret program that the New York Times allegedly revealed?

  61. Unregistered Comment by meatbrain UNITED STATES

    What was the top-secret program the Times revealed?

  62. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant UNITED STATES

    Look in your crotch, limp-wrist.  Should be easier to find there than your dick.