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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Family Discounts at New York Slimes
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But only if you’re a treasonous organization of smear-merchants calling our decorated officers traitors.

At least, that’s our interpretation. If we’re wrong, and the 61% discount that MorOn.org got from the New York Slimes on their “Betray Us” ad applies to all comers, then we’ve got a few ideas for full-page ads that we’d like to run too.

Oh, and isn’t a rate cut like that to a political organization considered a political contribution?

That’s not quite kosher according to the law, is it, New York Slimes?

Where are all the lawyers when we really need them?

UPDATE: Apparently the Fabulous New York Slimes Ad Discount™ doesn’t apply to all comers.

A Post reporter who called the Times advertising department yesterday without identifying himself was quoted a price of $167,000 for a full-page black-and-white ad on a Monday.

Guess we’ll just have to learn to live with Some Animals Being More Equal Than Others™ at the famously unbiased New York Slimes and find some other way of getting our Evil Right Wing Death Beast Message out.

Oink.

160 Responses to “Family Discounts at New York Slimes
  1. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Family discount for fellow travelers, ya’ know.

    After all, this is the paper which went out of it’s way to cover for Stalin, and Hitler, and Pol Pot, and just LUVS Castro. Reported Tet as a NVA Victory, and an ass whuppin’ for our boys. The list of hits is as long as the list of *spit* fwench *spit* military defeats.

    “Discounts for Moonbattus Dipshittus? No Problem, they are, after all, OUR Useful Idiots!”

    No, there’s no Media Bias, is there?

  2. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    I’ve run a few print ads, and I’m not at all surprised by the discount. In the print industry, the stated price is rarely the actual price. Marketing firms get discounts, you get discounts for running a set number of advertisements, you get discounts if you’re a new customer, you get discounts if your advertisement appears likely to generate new business. A discount the size of Moveon’s wouldn’t really surprise me if, say, they were contracted to run a further 10-15 ads. Might be eeeevil libruhl media, but it’s probably just the ad biz.

  3. MuscleDaddy Comment by MuscleDaddy

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    Listening to Hugh Hewitt on the radio last night - Giuliani was on and said that his office was demanding of the NYT that they:

    a) Give his office the same discount for their full-page ad, and:

    b) Run said ad today - being the day after GW’s speech - since MoveOn got to decide when their “Betray-Us” ad would run. (apparently something you don’t ordinarily get to do for your $160K)
    Anyone know how that came out?

    - MuscleDaddy

  4. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Anyone know how that came out?

    Last I heard, the sales staff at the New Duranty Times was still rolling on the floor . . .

  5. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    I’m sure it was probably the same kind of discount the Swift Boat clowns were given in 2004. Of course you saw nothing wrong with it then.

  6. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    They got a discount? Source, please.

    Because if that’s true, if the New York Slimes gave the Swiftboaters the same sort of discount, then this post is in dire need of an update. But I need a quote.

  7. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    I’m sure it was probably the same kind of discount the Swift Boat clowns were given in 2004.

    Dave, fuck you. Those “clowns” were highly decorated Viet Nam vets who actually EARNED their decorations.
    Yeah, I know it hurts that your traitorous, back-stabbing fuckhead lost the election, but you’d do yourself a service by not slandering Viet Nam vets who merely pointed out the horseshit that Fuckface was shoveling.

  8. LC Beaker Comment by LC Beaker

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    I’m sure it was probably the same kind of discount the Swift Boat clowns were given in 2004. Of course you saw nothing wrong with it then.

    I call bullshit. If you’re going to casually toss that turd in the punchbowl, you’d better have some evidence to back it up. I’d be willing to bet that Pinch made damn sure their ad cost them plenty. As for the 60% discount for MoveOn.org, it’s only more confirmation to what we already know: that the NY Times is a leftist agenda-driven paper. Also, for the record, their lack of editorial balance in their Op-Ed section isn’t the big issue. They can spout whatever socialist drivel they want.

    The problem is the leftist bias in their “objective” news sections. The vast majority of their stories are written from a leftist slant. Worst of all is their news judgement. They’ll run front page stories of non-stories for months (Valerie Plame) to attack the President, and quietly bury other stories (say, Hillary Clinton’s many campaign finance scandals) that could hurt their favorite socialists. They have suffered, like most of those on the left, from BDS since Algore LOST the election in Florida in 2000.

    Liberals love to cry how Fox News is bias. And while I’ll agree that most of their opinion shows (O’Reilly, Hannity & Combs) lean to the right, their straight news is far more objective than the NY TImes. If Fox is just to the right of center, The NY Times is just to the left of Hugo Chavez.

  9. Unregistered Comment by Roman_Con

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    I would not wrap a fish in the NYT - anyone that subsewuently eats the fish might get dain bramage. My dog, however, could poop on the NYT until the cows come home.

  10. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Because if that’s true, if the New York Slimes gave the Swiftboaters the same sort of discount, then this post is in dire need of an update. But I need a quote.

    ALL newspapers give discounts to organizations all the time. Do I have specifics? No, but I do know that it is done all the time.

    The Swiftboaters got FREE plugs from almost ALL of the media during the last election cycle, just as MoveOn is getting the same plugs right now — because you perpetuate the ads by even talking about it.

    But if you think FOX News didn’t give away free advertising to the Swifties, then you weren’t paying attention.

    Dave, fuck you. Those “clowns” were highly decorated Viet Nam vets who actually EARNED their decorations.

    So did Kerry, no matter how much those guys tried to smear him after the fact.

    It doesn’t matter that someone is decorated or not — it doesn’t stop them from having a partisan agenda, does it?

    Petraeus is Bush’s stooge, and has been since 2004.

    His boss, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), told Petraeus that he considered him to be “an ass-kissing little chickenshit” and added, “I hate people like that”, the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.

    In case you didn’t catch it, but that is his boss saying that. One decorated officer talking about another decorated officer of lesser rank.

    He is also the one Bush recently put in charge of that whole debacle, but apparently doesn’t listen to.

  11. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    So did Kerry, no matter how much those guys tried to smear him after the fact.

    Bullshit. It’s been proven that Band-Aid Boy™, in fact, didn’t earn his medals. (Unless you consider “fragging yourself in the ass and writing up a fictitious account of your Christmas in Cambodia to cover it up“, as “earning” a medal.)

    Don’t even start your horseshit, Dave. You’re attempting to play Shootout at the OK Corral and you don’t have anything except a broken rubberband & a bent paperclip. (Which, BTW, you’d better keep out of reach of Fuckface, because he’d surely hurt himself on and write himself up for another Purple Heart.)

  12. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    In case you didn’t catch it, but that is his boss saying that. One decorated officer talking about another decorated officer of lesser rank.

    This doesn’t mean squat. Just as in the “real world,” where you can have one person who doesn’t like another, so does the military. I could give you several examples.

  13. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    Clowns?

    You sir are the clown and you’re not even remotely fucking funny…you just insulted every vet here..

    How is one a clown for doing very little more than reminding the nation of what Mr. Kerry’s actions were during and after Viet Nam?

    (Oh BTW just WHERE are those military records J.F. Kerry promised within 180 days wasn’t it? That was what 3 years ago now? Hmmmmmm…funny that).

    The Swiftboater’s really did nothing more.
    For people like me who were very young back then so didn’t remember his actions, and didn’t even really know who John the traitor Kerry was going into the election. The boaters helped to make a more informed choice.

    Fact, John Kerry committed treason, if not treason then he is at least guilty of collaberation with the enemy in a time of war. Paris ring a bell Dave?

    That is in the history books, there is UN-DENIABLE photographic evidence of that. The boaters set out to remind and warn people what they were getting, and right they were in doing that. But to the likes you their clowns.

    I guess since they came out against a liberal canidate they should of just shut up and not excercised thier constitutional rights… right Dave?

    I suppose Mary Mapes & Dan Rather are astute purveyors of the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth right Deej? “Accurate but fake” When you going to call those two “clowns” out Deej?

    When you going to call out the clowns at NYT ? They tried thier damndest to throw Bush’s second term out the window..same as the Swift boaters did to Kerry..doesn’t that make them “clowns” too for trying to force the outcome of a presidental election in thier favor? Oh wait thier Liberals…That’s right…Gee sorry.

    Hypocrite.

  14. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    In fact,I WILL give a couple of examples: before my nephew joined the USAF, he had received his one-gallon pin from the Red Cross for donating blood. Note I said BEFORE…

    After he joined the military, he had a female supervisor who we think probably had the hots for him (Nate is VERY good looking). When he gave blood AFTER he enlisted, said female WROTE HIM UP…saying he was trying to “suck up” to the officers.

    Nate had also spent many years before his military service working with disabled children at a camp in southern Illinois.

    When he requested leave to work with disadvantaged children on an Indian reservation in SD (he was at Ellsworth), AGAIN, said female supervisor accused him of “sucking up” to the officers.

    So, one officer bad-mouthing another, junior or not, means NOTHING, except a bit of envy, perhaps…

  15. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Aaaaaaaah, yes. Dave pulls out another “anonymous military source” for his little hit piece. Mind finding an actual, ya’ know, non-Marxist outlet with a non-anonymous source for your continued slander?

    Anonymous radio sources stated that Rhandi Rhodes berated talk-show producer/engineer, DJ Allyn, as “an ass-kissing little chickenshit” and added, “I hate people like that”, the sources say. That remark reportedly came after DJ Allyn began the meeting by making remarks that Rhodes interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with Al Franken.”

    See? We can do that too.

    (Updated to include substantiating source link for excerpted text—B.)

    Substantiating source link.

  16. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    anonymous military source

    LOL…B.C. You picked that up too? The whole diatribe reads like a school girl’s note..”jimmy’s girlfriend said that johnni’s girlfriend said that… OMG! it’s Fersure!”

    Fuck by time I got done reading I thought fucking Peter FUCKING Pan or Tinkerbell might of said it…

    Dave..really man step away from the crack pipe…

  17. Mike M Comment by Mike M

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    But BC, while I’m certainly not questioning its accuracy, unlike “DJ Allyn’s” comment, your quote doesn’t contain an actual link to a dispassionate, objective and incontrovertible source like Gareth Porter to lend it that certain gravitas. A link like that validates everything you claim, you know.

    Here’s an example:

    Gareth Porter, along with Noam Chomsky, are heroes of the radical Left movement for their long record of denouncing American policies in Southeast Asia and the Middle East, which they say are built on lies and reflect our country’s imperialistic designs to dominate the world with military force. Consistently on the wrong side of history as millions have been liberated from the yoke of oppressive regimes by the sacrifices of the American people, these Leftist idols plow on with their defense of the indefensible. Giving the benefit of the doubt to their own democratically elected leaders rather than some of the world’s worst tyrants is simply not part of their DNA.

  18. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    His boss, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), told Petraeus that he considered him to be “an ass-kissing little chickenshit” and added, “I hate people like that”, the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.

    Oh, really? That the same Admiral Fallon who…

    pushed hard for a conciliatory line toward and China, which put him in conflict with senior military and civilian officials with a vested interest in pointing to China as a future rival and threat

    …as well as the same Fallon who…

    privately vowed that there would be no war against Iran on his watch, implying that he would quit rather than accept such a policy

    So who’s the real chickenshit, Dave? Doesn’t sound like it’s Petraeus.

    Petraeus is Bush’s stooge, and has been since 2004

    And you’re the Left’s little lap-poodle, and have been for Cthulu knows how long.

    BC’s right: Fuck off.

  19. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    Dave’s got conclusive info:

    I’m sure it was probably the same kind of discount the Swift Boat clowns were given in 2004.

    ‘Saw some numbers? Or is “I’m sure” the same as “I think”.

    Swifties! Saved America again!
    Otherwise we’d still be negotiating with the taliban from OUR cave..

  20. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Mike M, thanks for pointing out that little “sourcing link” oversight on my part. It has been duly noted and, as you can see by looking at my previous comment, corrective action has been taken.

    :em93:

  21. Mike M Comment by Mike M

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    Excellent, BC. You can’t do better than circular sourcing.

    Oh, yeah, before I forget. Thanks to the heavens for George Patton, Chesty Puller and the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth.

  22. LC Old Dog Comment by LC Old Dog

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    DJ,

    You might want to check out Blackfive.

    Uncle Jimbo did a pretty good take on the supposed Fallon / Petraus rif. Including a description of the “source”. Not to mention that Jimbo still has some friends in both Centcom and MNF-I HQ’s.

    Basically He called bullshit!

  23. maxxpig Comment by maxxpig

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    Dave
    Lay off the Swift Boat Vets, Dave. It’s beneath you.
    Like it or not W is Petreaus’s boss. Because he shows his boss respect and follows orders he’s a stooge? How dare you call him that! He’s a leader of men in combat. He leads from the front and deserves respect! He is a man of honor and integrity and at the very least should be shown common courtesy and decency by the elected representatives of WE the American people in Our Capitol Building. You may be entitled to your opinion, and I fart in your general direction for it, but the Senators and Reps in Congress have no right to treat an American General and an Ambassador of the United States in the manner they did!

  24. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Guys, it is perfectly possible that MoveOn.org received their discount for a benign reason. Newspapers offer discounts to advertisers all the time. If MoveOn.org had purchased a series of advertisements, their discount would be perfectly explicable as an introductory offer. Newspapers and magazines do this all the time. It’s just one of the quirks of the advertising business.

  25. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    Its equally possible that “Intelligent Liberals” and Unicorns really exist, but I have yet to see proof of either. When the Slimes is involved, I expect that it was deliberate.

  26. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Oh, and while I’m at it, fuck the Swift Boat Veterans and the maggot ridden horses they were fucking on the ride in. Bunch of lying-assed, agenda pushing motherfuckers.

  27. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    Who all have more credibility in the summit of their left ass cheek than can be found in the entire organization of MoveON.dipshits.

    Yer five minutes are up Cindyrelly. Get yer ass back to scrubbin’ the floors.

  28. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    I’d ask you to blow me but, frankly, I don’t know where you’ve been. The bottom line is that if lies were dingleberries the Swifties would have buried us up to our necks in shit three years ago.

  29. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    You can ask, and that might even allow you to pretend for a moment that you had some manhood to attend to. However, if you had a clue, you’d know that such a proposition would get a polite refusal {because you obviously don’t know better}, or serious ridicule. Since you’re out of you depth in your attempt to leave the kiddie pool of intellectual discourse, I’ll go with ridicule, for Five Hundred, Alex.

    Discounting the price of an overtly political (and and inexcusably offensive) while not offering similar discounts to other political advertisers is likely a violation of law, and a really bad idea.

    Now if you still want to bash gentlemen who served with honor and didn’t piss all over their commerades on their return to the States, may I suggest the DailyKos? They’re always looking for a few more delusional mental deficients. Come back when you get a clue.

  30. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    However, if you had a clue, you’d know that such a proposition would get a polite refusal {because you obviously don’t know better}, or serious ridicule.

    Well, I know that your acceptance of said proposal would most likely get me a nasty rash, and the fear of being caught slumming it with a dumbfuck goober like you is far more terrifying than whatever neutered barbs you’re able to wring from that syphilis ridden pound of damp meat between your ears.

    Discounting the price of an overtly political (and and inexcusably offensive) while not offering similar discounts to other political advertisers is likely a violation of law, and a really bad idea.

    But, as I’ve said repeatedly now, newspapers and magazines offer substantial advertising discounts all the time! Since neither you, nor anyone else, knows the precise circumstances under which MoveOn.org purchased their ad space, your accusations of favouritism are, at best, baseless speculation.

    Now if you still want to bash gentlemen who served with honor and didn’t piss all over their commerades on their return to the States, may I suggest the DailyKos?

    The irony here is so thick I could wrap it around my car and call it a safety cage. The entire Swiftie excursion was an object lesson in how to piss over a comrade with maximum possible efficiency. They were, and always shall be, a malodorous bunch of lying assed motherfuckers.

  31. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    They were, and always shall be, a malodorous bunch of lying assed motherfuckers.

    Hello chewtoy!
    Sayin’ they’re liars is the lie oft repeated.
    Versteht herr goebles?

  32. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Hello chewtoy!
    Sayin’ they’re liars is the lie oft repeated.
    Versteht herr goebles?

    Oddly enough, the only part of that I do understand is the German. As for the rest, I can only assume you were channeling the spirit of Hugo Ball, or are recovering from a particularly nasty concussion. Although I must say that, considering the malodorous lying motherfuckers currently under discussion, your Goebbels reference is yet another masterpiece of unintentional irony.

  33. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    A feeble attempt, at best. I simply kick back and watch the old gray hag slowly lose readers, value and credibility. Delighting me no end, actually……

  34. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Muzzy, I’ve defended you here on more than one occasion in the past, but you have one, I repeat ONE, chance to retract those steaming loads of slanderous shit you posted above or you are gone for good.

    ‘Nuff sed.

    :em96:

  35. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    muzzy shrieks:

    Oh, and while I’m at it, fuck the Swift Boat Veterans and the maggot ridden horses they were fucking on the ride in. Bunch of lying-assed, agenda pushing motherfuckers.

    I’d ask you to blow me but, frankly, I don’t know where you’ve been. The bottom line is that if lies were dingleberries the Swifties would have buried us up to our necks in shit three years ago.

    Hey, do you all notice that the liberal arguments have ramped up in hysterics and name calling lately? Isn’t that what usually happens when they are getting their asses handed to them? Why the sour mood muzzy, are all of your candidates and congressional leaders being outed as the traitors and lying beeyotches that they are? Are your msm lapdogs having more and more trouble filling their broadcasts with their seditious propaganda, and having trouble denying that the corner is being turned in Iraq? Are you filled with angst because you and your fellow al-qaeda sympathizers can’t get your message across like your predecessors in 1969? Well go f*** your giant puppet, you contribute nothing to the debate.

    DJ sez:

    Petraeus is Bush’s stooge, and has been since 2004.

    wooops, there’s that name calling again….. :em99:

    His boss, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), told Petraeus that he considered him to be “an ass-kissing little chickenshit” and added, “I hate people like that”, the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.

    If that’s the standard you want to use, then it’s cool with me….If I remember my history right, Eisenhower and Marshall and Bradley and even Roosevelt had some pretty harsh criticisms of Patton. But they stayed clear and let him fight to win……I certainly hope that history repeats itself here. If you have to stoop to insulting the Theatre Commander (ala hillary and the rest of the al-qaedacrats) in order to discredit the war, then you really have tapped out the legitimacy in your anti-war arguments.

  36. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    An attention getting device, I’m sure. It works for babies. Knowing those having served in the American armed forces, both professionally and personally, renders such appraisals laughable. I remember some of the men I knew during the ‘Nam era, I served on a bird farm. The swifties proved extremely effective, and this is why the left hates them….simply put, they succeeded. As for Kerry…………every vet I knew at the time despised him. Then again, I’ve never shot anybody in the back, either.

  37. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    B.C. Imperial Torturer

    Muzzy, I’ve defended you here on more than one occasion in the past, but you have one, I repeat ONE, chance to retract those steaming loads of slanderous shit you posted above or you are gone for good.

    Hmm…Please don’t think me unappreciative, but I genuinely don’t remember a single time when you’ve defended anything I’ve said. I do remember a great many occasions when you’ve taken great exception to my comments and, in the process, expressed your discontent in language one wouldn’t choose to repeat in front of one’s mother*

    As for a retraction, I’m afraid I am going to continue to disappoint. I genuinely don’t feel I have anything to retract. The Swift Boat Veterans For Truth was an explicitely political fringe group who repeatedly lied and distorted the truth about John Kerry’s war record. The merits of their military service notwithstanding, they have lied, and continued to lie about the war record of a distinguished soldier. That is shameful. They are shameful. This is my honest to God opinion and I have the facts to back it up. I have nothing to apologise for and nothing to retract. If you still feel I should be banned, so be it. It is (at least partially) your website, after all.

    *Unless one’s mother has Tourette’s syndrome, in which case it would be both funny and a useful bonding exercise.

  38. maxxpig Comment by maxxpig

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    I said it was beneath DJ.
    Muzzy however, is so low that nothing is beneath him.
    He looks up at piles of ant shit.
    His mother worked hard suckin’ dick for the extra cash to put him through school and look what she
    got! Beside the herpes, that is.
    Poor mom!

  39. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Hey, do you all notice that the liberal arguments have ramped up in hysterics and name calling lately?

    I assure you, I am not in the least bit hysterical. Peeved, somewhat, by fact that there are still people on God’s green earth willing to defend the Swifties, but not enough to put a crimp in my day.

    Why the sour mood muzzy, are all of your candidates and congressional leaders being outed as the traitors and lying beeyotches that they are?

    Check my location. I don’t have any congressional leaders.

    Are your msm lapdogs having more and more trouble filling their broadcasts with their seditious propaganda, and having trouble denying that the corner is being turned in Iraq?

    Why would anyone have any trouble denying it. The history of the Iraq war is being written in blood and is being punctuated by bomb blasts. Frankly, and I’ve said this repeatedly, those people who really wanted to harm America would spend their time trying to convince everyone that everything was just Hunky-dory, the better to allow Bush to continue fucking everything up.

    Are you filled with angst because you and your fellow al-qaeda sympathizers can’t get your message across like your predecessors in 1969? Well go f*** your giant puppet, you contribute nothing to the debate.

    Yes. Yes, that’s it exactly. Also, I keep spilling hummus on my dynamite vest.

  40. maxxpig Comment by maxxpig

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    Speaking of Kerry’s war record dickbreath, where the hell are his records? You know, the ones he said he was gonna release in a few months time. He said that several years ago IIRC.

  41. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    muzzy:

    Also, I keep spilling hummus on my dynamite vest.

    appropriate comment from someone that goes by the name that you do.

  42. Lady Heather Comment by Lady Heather

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    Hmm…Please don’t think me unappreciative, but I genuinely don’t remember a single time when you’ve defended anything I’ve said.

    I remember it.

    Creationism vs Evolution, ring any bells?

    Seems I remember BC putting back up a comment you posted here after Lord Spatula deleted it.

    I remember that you are an agnostic or an atheist, and BC defending that.

  43. Unregistered Comment by thefrollickingmole

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    This is clever.

    A little story on Mr Kerrys last run for president.
    My dad was in Vietnam on busines during the American elections, and thought hed have a look at a Viet military museum about the “American war” as he said they called it over there.

    Dur to the election Kerry had an exhibit all to himself, including every allegation he ever made, and no doubt a lot of made up (by the Viets) propaganda pieces.
    If youd like I could try and find out where that museum was, maybe they are web linked or someone headed over there could document it?

  44. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Lady Heather

    I remember it.

    Creationism vs Evolution, ring any bells?

    Seems I remember BC putting back up a comment you posted here after Lord Spatula deleted it.

    I remember that you are an agnostic or an atheist, and BC defending that.

    Oh yeah! You’re absolutely right. I’d forgotten about that. B.C., I humbly apologise for the oversight. It must be my old age. Well, old age and crack.

  45. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Speaking of Kerry’s war record dickbreath, where the hell are his records? You know, the ones he said he was gonna release in a few months time. He said that several years ago IIRC.

    Kerry released them to several newspapers over two years ago.

  46. maxxpig Comment by maxxpig

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    http://horse.he.net/~swiftpow/index.php?topic=SwiftVetQuotes

  47. maxxpig Comment by maxxpig

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    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200409%5CSPE20040916a.html

    Not quite good enough, asswipe! 30 some pages missing.

  48. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    Well, I know that your acceptance of said proposal would most likely get me a nasty rash, and the fear of being caught slumming it with a dumbfuck goober like you is far more terrifying than whatever neutered barbs you’re able to wring from that syphilis ridden pound of damp meat between your ears.

    Is the weather nice on Planet LaLaLand? You came with a big ass bag of nothing, and despite your best rumaging around in it when called on it, you still got nothing, so as any good Kool-Aid sipper will, when unable to substantiate the drivel pouring from their quivering lips, you turned to page two of the play book and tried diversion. Sadly, you lack the capacity to make it interesting, let alone challenging.

    Up till now, I was willing to believe that it wasn’t your fault, but now I believe that you willingly choose to be stupid. So be it. The scimitar-wielding barbarians will be far less tolerant than we are.

  49. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Thank you for the first link, maxxpig….many memories for me, of men I knew that never came home, all of them better men than John Gigolo Kerry… I remember what astounded so many vets at the time, the sheer gall and utter disregard for what truly happened…all in the name of political opportunism. What those my age remembered and felt. The absolute lack of compunction from the left in pursuit of their goals, and how over time mainstream Americans fought back and beat them at their own game. I found a sadness remembering…..and to this day I always stop, quietly cast my gaze over the flags at the cemetery, and thank the true heroes, not some grandstanding son of a bitch who finally caught up with himself.

  50. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    The Swift Boat Veterans For Truth was an explicitely political fringe group who repeatedly lied and distorted the truth about John Kerry’s war record.

    BS Muzzy. Show me one thing that they said that was a lie. You can’t because A. It was the truth. B. Horseface has never released the records he swore he would to refute any of it. Their rehashing of his documented actions after his return to CONUS are the hard, cold truth.

    The merits of their military service notwithstanding, they have lied, and continued to lie about the war record of a distinguished soldier.

    First off, the last I checked, fuckface was in the Navy. Makes him a sailor, not a soldier. As to the distinguished part, yeah right. In his own mind maybe. Although I heard he slaughtered 5 million kazillion VC on his Christmas in Cambodia tour. With his bare hands, and while carrying his entire crew (and the boat) on his back.

    That is shameful. They are shameful. This is my honest to God opinion and I have the facts to back it up. I have nothing to apologise for and nothing to retract.

    You need to apologize for robbing deserving cockroaches of oxygen. That and for your mom not getting an enema after the john she thinks was your daddy shot his load in her ass. That would have saved us all your tired bleatings and blather.

  51. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    maxxpig

    Not quite good enough, asswipe! 30 some pages missing.

    Don’t take this the wrong way maxxpig, but sometimes I think you’re retarded. Your CNSNews cite is dated 09/16/2004. My New York Sun cite is dated 06/21/2005. Bear that in mind when you read the following key quote from your cite:


    Navy Personnel Command FOIA Officer Dave German wrote in an e-mail to Judicial Watch that the Navy “withheld thirty-one pages of documents from the responsive military personnel service records as we were not provided a release authorization.”

    A “release authorization” would have to come from Kerry filling out and signing a Standard Form 180, something he has yet to do. A Standard Form 180 would authorize the complete release of all his military records. Judicial Watch filed Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests in August to obtain Kerry’s military records.

    I’ve bolded the important part.

    Now, here’s the money quote from my cite:


    WASHINGTON - Senator Kerry of Massachusetts recently granted three reporters broad access to his Navy service records, according to documents obtained by The New York Sun.

    The privacy waivers signed by Mr. Kerry authorized the release of “a single, one time copy of the complete military service record and medical record of John F. Kerry” to Glen Johnson of the Associated Press, Michael Kranish of the Boston Globe, and Stephen Braun of the Los Angeles Times.

    The waivers, executed on a National Archives form known as Standard Form 180, also permitted release of “an undeleted report” of any discharges ever granted to Mr. Kerry. The undeleted reports would include the “character” of any discharge, the form indicates.

    The limitations of the medium prevent me from literally drawing you a picture, so I’ll try to summarise this as simply as I can because, let’s face it, that’s the only thing that’s got a chance of working on someone as terminally cluefucked as you.

    Your cite is old, and came out before Kerry signed the 180 releasing all his documents. Therefore, it is irrelevant, doesn’t rebut Jack shit, and, incidentally, makes you look like much less intelligent than a rhesus monkey specially bred to test the effects of pistol whippings on posting ability.

    Try again.

  52. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Muzzy, I’ll give you one chance to show these “lies” that you keep repeatedly saying the Swifties told about the Fuckfaced Gold-digger. If, in your next comment, you don’t come up with a solid, source-backed example of said “packs of lies” and you don’t have a retraction, say “Buh-bye!“.

    John “Fuckface” Al-Qerry’s service was neither distinguished nor honorable. His post-service conduct was out-and-out treason & sedition. Period. Stop. End of Transmission.

    Lady Heather, thanks for jingling our British comrade’s memory as to one of the several occasions that I’ve defended his position and honor. Let’s hope he has the honor to either back up his slander with documented evidence or retract it with an apology. His choice.

  53. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    Your cite is old, and came out before Kerry signed the 180 releasing all his documents. Therefore, it is irrelevant, doesn’t rebut Jack shit, and, incidentally, makes you look like much less intelligent than a rhesus monkey specially bred to test the effects of pistol whippings on posting ability.

    Where’s your rebuttal, slick?
    *crickets chirping*

    Lemme make it easy for you. “Look! There’s a pony!” *points past Muzzy’s intellectually inane carcass*

  54. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    The privacy waivers signed by Mr. Kerry authorized the release of “a single, one time copy of the complete military service record and medical record of John F. Kerry” to Glen Johnson of the Associated Press, Michael Kranish of the Boston Globe, and Stephen Braun of the Los Angeles Times.

    Releasing his records to three, I’m sure hand selected, reporters to look specifically for what type of discharge he received, is NOT releasing his records to the public asswipe. Not even fucking close.

    “Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don’t intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less.”

    – Andrew Horne

    That’s the reason why the Swifties came out with the truth. Kerry was, is, and shall remain, a fucking traitor. You want to defend an American traitor and besmirch the honor of true warriors, hop across the pond and do it here.

  55. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    The privacy waivers signed by Mr. Kerry authorized the release of “a single, one time copy of the complete military service record and medical record of John F. Kerry” to Glen Johnson of the Associated Press, Michael Kranish of the Boston Globe, and Stephen Braun of the Los Angeles Times.

    Yeah. That’d be like me claiming that I single-handedly ended WWII armed with a toothpick and a rolled-up copy of The London Times, then “releasing” my records to my best buddies as “proof.”

    With the major difference being that my best buddies would still have too much integrity to lie on my behalf, but I’m sure you get my drift.

    Oh, or how about this: A defendant in a criminal case only allowing his own counsel access to evidence, then claiming that he had “revealed the whole truth already.”

    If Kerry al-Fuckface’s records are that spotless, if he really is that bloody “distinguished”, then what harm could there possibly be in him signing a general release form? Why wouldn’t he want his “heroic” records to be in the public eye? Particularly considering that he showed no hesitation in riding his own version of them like a Tijuana donkey throughout election season.

    Hmmm?

    Oh, and as far as this goes:

    But, as I’ve said repeatedly now, newspapers and magazines offer substantial advertising discounts all the time! Since neither you, nor anyone else, knows the precise circumstances under which MoveOn.org purchased their ad space, your accusations of favouritism are, at best, baseless speculation.

    I guess you’re wrong again because, as you can see, we do know. The dumb fucks were kind enough to tell us. Dumb enough to think up a half-baked story, expecting nobody would know what the fuck they were babbling about. Unfortunately for them, Uncle Jimbo does.

    Next.

  56. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    , your Goebbels reference is yet another masterpiece of unintentional irony.

    The irony is your’s pal.
    ‘Till you show me a lie, your propaganda, as pursued of old, only works on the weak minded.

    Happy to disappoint you.

  57. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    Cricket chirp is too much.

  58. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    Awww….give Muzzy a break. You know it has to be sad when the highlight of his day is to run to the end of his chain and bark.

  59. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    A typical em oh for these people, Mrs. M. Nothing unusual. Seen it before, ends the same.

  60. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Mrs. M, here’s your chance to blow the dust off all that high tech troll clean up gear that Imperial Funds bought ya.

  61. maxxpig Comment by maxxpig

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    You got me on the dates. It was a rather lame mistake.
    His release of the records to the three handpicked people is the best we will ever get.
    It still doesn’t excuse his actions upon returning from Vietnam. His lies before Congress, throwing his or someones medals over the fence, meeting with reps of North Vietnam and his book. The mental pain he inflicted on Vietnam vets will never be forgiven. His words were used during torture sessions of our POWs. He does indeed have his picture in the War Museum in Vietnam.
    BTW,I was just informed by sources that I was also wrong about your mom having herpes. It was actually syphilis!

  62. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    BTW,I was just informed by sources that I was also wrong about your mom having herpes. It was actually syphilis!

    Easy mistake to make maxxpig when you look at the end results. So hard to tell what debilitating venereal disease is responsible for that crud.

  63. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Blackiswhite

    Where’s your rebuttal, slick?
    *crickets chirping*

    Lemme make it easy for you. “Look! There’s a pony!” *points past Muzzy’s intellectually inane carcass*

    The rebuttal is right there in (forgive me) black and white! maxxpig cited an article saying that Kerry was holding out on everyone by not signing the 180 form which would release all his documents. My cite, from about a year later, reports that Kerry had signed the 180 form and that, consequently, all his records have been released.

    Releasing his records to three, I’m sure hand selected, reporters to look specifically for what type of discharge he received, is NOT releasing his records to the public asswipe. Not even fucking close.

    They’re Kerry’s records. He has the right to release them to whomever he feels comfortable. He was under no legal obligation to do so whatsoever, and by the time he did release them the 2004 election was over. He really had no real motive to release the documents except to clear the air. Frankly, given how ferociously he was attacked by so many special interest groups before and during the election, I’m not surprised that he hasn’t put them on his fucking Myspace for every Jimbob with a moden to dissect & distort.

    That’s the reason why the Swifties came out with the truth. Kerry was, is, and shall remain, a fucking traitor.

    Strong words, crunchie. Would you mind reproducing those words you consider so treasonous? I’d be keen to see if they match up to any standard definitions of the term.

  64. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Unfortunately, it appears that Spam Karma is intent upon eating the long post I made to B.C. wherein I detail 5 lies told by the Swifties with cites and everything. I’ve submitted it three times now and it’s still not showing up. My apologies, B.C.. It looks like you may have to wait until the morning for that particular post.

    Edit: Just had a thought. Is there a word limit on comments? My erstwhile assault on the truthfulness of the Swifties was egregiously long and could have been held back for that reason.

  65. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Would you mind reproducing those words you consider so treasonous? I’d be keen to see if they match up to any standard definitions of the term.

    trea·son:
    1. the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereign.

    2. a violation of allegiance to one’s sovereign or to one’s state.
    3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

    Actions AND words speak louder than words alone.

    Now, you’re way past your chance to come up with your “packs of lies”. Time grows VERY short.

  66. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    Mrs. M, here’s your chance to blow the dust off all that high tech troll clean up gear that Imperial Funds bought ya.

    Well I was hoping for the chance to use it on a more superior quality troll than Muzzy…but I guess it’s better than nothing. :em99:

  67. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Muzzy

    Strong words, crunchie. Would you mind reproducing those words you consider so treasonous? I’d be keen to see if they match up to any standard definitions of the term.

    Article III, sect 3 of the U.S. Constitution “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”

    Kerry testified under oath to the US Congress that he had participated in and witnessed atrocities that never occurred, undermining the moral authority of the troops still fighting, and giving the enemy propaganda war a valuable weapon, one that was in fact used by NV interrogators while they tortured our POWS’.

    Kerry met with delegates from North Vietnam in Paris during the war in 1970.

    Kerry’s actions and words provided substantial comfort and aid to the enemy of the US.

    Kerry’s use of POW families directly advanced the North Vietnamese communist agenda as described by enemy defectors and in the newly discovered Circular, which suggests that Madame Binh had recommended the same course of action to antiwar activists meeting with her in Paris.

    Kerry is hailed by the Viet Namese govt as a hero who assisted them prosecute the war.

    Kerry besmirched the honor of our troops, undermined our war effort, and openly assisted the enemy in prosecuting their propaganda war against the US.

  68. Lady Heather Comment by Lady Heather

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    Forget about whether Sen Kerry or the other Swiftees were lying.

    As Maxx said earlier, what he did when he came back was giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and for that reason his ass should have been deported to North Viet Nam instead of sitting in the United States Senate. We could have and should have won that war. But it was the rot within that lost if for us, not the outside forces.

    Until he owns up to that treachery, he is not a “fellow American” to me.

  69. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Senator Kerry may argue today that his anti-war protests did not render support to the enemy in time of war and that his activities did not violate the definition of treason given in Article III, Section 3, of the US Constitution. This exhibit paying tribute to Kerry in the War Protestors Hall of the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City tells a very different story. The Vietnamese communists clearly feel that the American anti-war protestors were a very important force in undermining support in the United States for American war efforts, a force that contributed materially to ultimate communist victory in 1975.

  70. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    B.C.

    Okay, I’ll try one more time. I’ll break up the posts into smaller chunks on the offchance that Spam Karma is eating them because the overall post is too large. My apologies to Misha, DJ, and whomever else may have to sift through the backlog of retained posts. Here goes:

    Muzzy, I’ll give you one chance to show these “lies” that you keep repeatedly saying the Swifties told about the Fuckfaced Gold-digger.

    Okay. Here are a few. Bear in mind that there are many, many more where these came from.

    1) The Swift Boat Veterans For Truth (hereafter known as SBVT, or SBVT’ers) state that John Kerry’s “entire chain of command” belonged to the group. This is a lie. Neither Joseph Streuli, nor Art Price, who was described in the SBVT book Unfit For Command as part of Kerry’s chain of command, are affiliated with the group.

    Sources:
    SBVT Website
    Unfit For Command by John O’ Neill.

  71. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    2) You may remember the SBVT’ers first TV ad, entitled ‘Any Questions’. The short segment featured 13 men who testified that they had “served with John Kerry” or had direct contact with John Kerry during his service in Vietnam. These men said Kerry was dishonest, unreliable, unfit to lead, and had dishonored his country and fellow veterans. Only one of the men in the advertisement (Steve Gardner) had actually served under Kerry. The rest of the men had done nothing more than sail in the same multiboat patrol’s as Kerry. The advert doesn’t even so much as hint at this, and leads the viewer to believe that the veterans had far more intimate knowledge of John Kerry’s leadership skills than they actually did. Imagine if Michael Moore tried to get away with such a calculated lie of omission, you’d nail his balls to the wall for it.

  72. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    3) During the 3rd SBVT television advert, the one which focussed on Kerry’s much debated sojourn into Cambodia, Steve Gardner states that “I spent more time on John Kerry’s boat than any other crew member”. This is categorically untrue. Gardner was only part of Kerry’s crew for a month and a half, from December 6, 1968 to approximately January 22, 1969; crew directories and first hand accounts indicate that other crewmembers served as long or longer under Kerry’s command. Gardner also states that “John Kerry claims that he spent Christmas in 1968 in Cambodia and that is categorically a lie. Not in December, not in January. We were never in Cambodia on a secret mission, ever.” However, Kerry has never said that the Christmas Eve incident was a “secret mission”. That, along with Gardner’s claim that he was the longest serving member of Kerry’s crew, are entirely fabrications of the SBVT organisation.

    Furthermore, Kerry and his crew spent a significant amount of time in December patrolling within a hair’s breadth of the Cambodian border. I quote from Douglas Brinkley’s book Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War.:

    From Brinkley’s ‘Tour of Duty:’

    Kerry and his crew:

    headed their Swift north by the Cho Chien River to its junction with the My Tho only miles from the Cambodian border. … Kerry began reading up on Cambodia’s history in a book he had borrowed from the floating barracks in An Thoi. … He even read about a 1959 Pentagon study titled “Psychological Observations: Cambodia,” which … state[d] that Cambodians “cannot be counted on to act in any positive way for the benefit of U.S. aims and policies.”

    Kerry’s personal diary from that time also details several firefights which took place at the border. While we may never know for sure, the idea that Kerry’s swift boat crossed into Cambodian territory during this eventful period shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand.

    So, to recap. Steve Gardner lied when he said he was the longest serving member of Kerry’s crew. He lied again by putting words in Kerry’s mouth, saying Kerry had described any possible incursions into Cambodian territory as a “secret mission” when he said no such thing. Also, John O’Neill, in Unfit For Command cite passages of Brinkley’s book which put Kerry 50 miles from the Cambodian border around Christmas ‘68, but don’t cite those passages from the very same book which place Kerry within a handful of miles of the same border, and under fire, at around the same time.

    Sources:

    Coastal Squadron 1: Swift Boat Crew Directory
    Unfit For Command
    Slate: Demolishing the ‘Christmas Eve’ attack on Kerry.

  73. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    4) Several veterans have complained that John O’Neill, when compiling material for Unfit for Command, interviewed them and then excised all the favourable comments they had made about Kerry. One such veteran was Patrick Runyon. O’Neill interviewed him by telephone concerning the circumstances under which Kerry was awarded his first Purple Heart. He then changed Runyon’s words to make it seem like the night in question was merely “Another quiet night on the Mekong Delta”

    Source:
    NYT: Friendly Fire - The Birth of an Anti-Kerry Ad.

  74. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    5) On Nightline with Ted Koppel, O’Neill stated that “Kerry is in the North Vietnamese war museum as a hero. . . . one of the heroes who caused them to win the war in Vietnam”. This statement is also repeated in Unfit For Command. It is, however, a gross distortion of the truth. Kerry’s picture is in the war museum, as part of a delegation of American politicians who went to Vietnam in 1993 under orders from President Clinton in order to help restore diplomatic relations.

    I am having a little trouble finding the source for this claim at the moment. I do remember it was in the New York Sun, and was written by a reporter named Josh Gerstein. I’ll keep trying and will post it as soon as I find it.

    Those were the first five Swiftie lies and distortions that sprang to mind. If you like, I could present another 5, and then another, and then another, and so on until the heat death of the universe. They really did tell an awful lot of lies and distortions. If you want the real dirt I could also, if you request, go into some detail about how intimately linked they were to the Republican party, and how flagrantly dishonest they were in claiming that they were merely an advocacy group of concerned citizens. I hope this will suffice for now. It is getting late, and if I were to type a completely exhaustive list of Swiftie lies I’d probably not go to bed at all.

  75. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    Oh, cool. It worked. Anyway. No more posts for me tonight. I’ll catch y’all tomorrow, assuming my posting privileges haven’t been revoked.

  76. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    While the rest of you take care of Muzzy on the Kerry front (did you know he served in Vietnam?), THIS is what ticks me off the most:

    *Unless one’s mother has Tourette’s syndrome, in which case it would be both funny and a useful bonding exercise.

    I have a nephew with Tourette’s, and Muzzy’s attempt at a joke is neither funny nor appreciated. I thought the libs were supposed to be the “tolerant” ones? Jerk.

  77. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Bullshit. It’s been proven that Band-Aid Boy™, in fact, didn’t earn his medals.

    No, actually it hasn’t been “proven” except in the vast echo chamber of Right-wing blogs. Call it a Right-wing circle jerk and the truth was the pivot post.

    If there was any validity to your claims and the claims of the swift boat activists, then why does Kerry still have the medals?

    Besides, many of these swifties approved those medals way back then, and now, since they are pissed at Kerry’s activities AFTER his service, they are retracting their story.

    But let’s get back to this OUTRAGE over the story that the NYT gave MoveOn this huge, special rate cut supposedly because it was a “lefty” discount.

    Apparently not.

    Any advocacy group seeking to place a single, full-page, black-and-white ad in The New York Times on “standby” over a seven-day period — the paper picks the day — pays what MoveOn did, $64,575, sources said.

    The New York Post reported that The New York Times charges a higher rate, $181,692, setting up erroneous reports that MoveOn got a “lefty” discount. But the higher price is for ads guaranteed to run on a specific day, said New York Times spokeswoman Catherine Mathis.

    Whaaaat? No special treatment after all? Just a way Rotten Rudy could score some political publicity based upon a bogus newspaper story from the NY Daily Post?

    Besides that, what exactly in the ad is false? Did you even bother to read what it said?

    In case you haven’t, let’s recap, shall we?

    General Petraeus or General Betray Us?

    Cooking the Books for the White House

    A snappy title asking a question, along with a subtitle giving forth an opinion.

    General Petraeus is a military man constantly at war with the facts. In 2004, just before the election, he said there was “tangible progress” in Iraq and that “Iraqi leaders are stepping forward.” And last week Petraeus, the architect of the escalation of troops in Iraq, said, “We say we have achieved progress, and we are obviously going to do everything we can to build on that progress.”

    Dispute any of that?

    Every independent report on the ground situation in Iraq shows that the surge strategy has failed. Yet the General claims a reduction in violence. That’s because, according to the New York Times, the Pentagon has adopted a bizarre formula for keeping tabs on violence. For example, deaths by car bombs don’t count. The Washington Post reported that assassinations only count if you’re shot in the back of the head — not the front. According to the Associated Press, there have been more civilian deaths and more American soldier deaths in the past three months than in any other summer we’ve been there. We’ll hear of neighborhoods where violence has decreased. But we won’t hear that those neighborhoods have been ethnically cleansed.

    Kinda hard to dispute that, except that you don’t like the publications reporting it. But hey, if you can dispute what was just said, be my guest — I am all ears.

    Most importantly, General Petraeus will not admit what everyone knows: Iraq is mired in an unwinnable religious civil war. We may hear of a plan to withdraw a few thousand American troops. But we won’t hear what Americans are desperate to hear: a timetable for withdrawing all our troops. General Petraeus has actually said American troops will need to stay in Iraq for as long as ten years.

    Yes, we heard this plan to “reduce the troops”, in fact, it was done in such a way that some of the lazy press reported it this morning saying that Bush is starting a troop withdrawal in Iraq because things are going so well.

    Most people want to hear of a troop reduction, but they won’t pay attention to the fact that we will have the same level of troops after Bush’s “withdrawal” as there was this time last year. If the surge was so “successful”, then why the need to continue to keep the same level of troops?

    Most people know that this is a civil war by any definition you want to use. It is religious in nature, and it is the last place we need to be.

    Today, before Congress and before the American people, General Petraeus is likely to become General Betray Us.

    Bear in mind that this ad came out before the hearings. The world “likely” leaves some room for Petraeus to surprise everyone and give the straight scoop as to what is going on in Iraq.

    But he didn’t, and he didn’t because he was sucking up to Bush.

    As I said above, there have been other General Officers who have told Bush his plan was full of shiite. Bush loves to talk about “listening to (his) Generals”, but the moment they say something he doesn’t want to hear, then they are gone.

    Getting back to Spats:

    Oh, really? That the same Admiral Fallon who…

    yes.

    …as well as the same Fallon who…

    Yup

    So who’s the real chickenshit, Dave? Doesn’t sound like it’s Petraeus.

    Well, he was the latest scapegoat that Bush nominated to head up CentCom.

    He apparently knows more than you or I on the subject, I am sure. And since he is Petraeus’ superior, I suspect he knows more than he does too.

    I don’t have to remind you that he definately knows more than President Chuckles.

    Here is the problem: The Pentagon bench isn’t all that deep any more. Bush has gotten rid of just about anyone who would dare disagree with his insanity. Petraeus apparently has always been an ass-licker and is trying to advance himself not by deeds, but by being a sychophant.

    It is unfortunate that Petraeus had to be the front man on trying to sell this crap to the American people. But Bush is such damaged goods, he couldn’t tell you the sky is blue without 71 percent of the people disagreeing with him.

    The majority of people in this country want a different direction or approach in Iraq. All they got was a trick.

  78. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    I’ll spend a good amount of time using a pitchfork to tear those steaming piles of horse shit apart tomorrow, but I’ll just blow one of your claims straight the fuck out of the water right now.

    He lied again by putting words in Kerry’s mouth, saying Kerry had described any possible incursions into Cambodian territory as a “secret mission” when he said no such thing.
    ….
    However, Kerry has never said that the Christmas Eve incident was a “secret mission”.

    Ya’ might want to bone up on your US Senate history and start reading other sources for your material.

    “I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared — seared — in me.”

    However seared he was, Kerry’s spokesmen now say his memory was faulty. When the Swift boat veterans who oppose Kerry presented statements from his commanders and members of his unit denying that his boat entered Cambodia, none of Kerry’s shipmates came forward, as they had on other issues, to corroborate his account. Two weeks ago Kerry’s spokesmen began to backtrack. First, one campaign aide explained that Kerry had patrolled the Mekong Delta somewhere “between” Cambodia and Vietnam. But there is no between; there is a border. Then another spokesman told reporters that Kerry had been “near Cambodia.” But the point of Kerry’s 1986 speech was that he personally had taken part in a secret and illegal war in a neutral country. That was only true if he was “in Cambodia,” as he had often said he was. If he was merely “near,” then his deliberate misstatement falsified the entire speech.

    If a flaming Librul gets The Bullshit Flag™ thrown on ‘em by the Washington ComPost, then you can rest assured that there’s a flagrant (AND fragrant) bullshit foul and the resulting 15 yard walk-off is richly deserved.

    As I said at the start, it’s late and I’ll take to cleaning out the rest of the Imperial Barn tomorrow.

  79. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    The short segment featured 13 men who testified that they had “served with John Kerry” or had direct contact with John Kerry during his service in Vietnam.

    followed by

    Only one of the men in the advertisement (Steve Gardner) had actually served under Kerry. The rest of the men had done nothing more than sail in the same multiboat patrol’s as Kerry.

    By your logic then muzzy, I can not comment on the qualities of an officer in the rifle company I served in because I wasn’t in his exact platoon. Bullshit.

    Steve Gardner states that “I spent more time on John Kerry’s boat than any other crew member”. This is categorically untrue. Gardner was only part of Kerry’s crew for a month and a half,

    That’s half of Kerry’s “distinguished” tour. He may have been factually incorrect, an easy enough mistake if someone else had actually served on the boat a bit longer, but still enough time to know the “qualities” of Kerry.

    However, Kerry has never said that the Christmas Eve incident was a “secret mission”.

    “I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared — seared — in me.”

    “and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.” Sounds like he’s claiming sooper sekrit agent man to me.
    Next, the campaign leaked a new version through the medium of historian Douglas Brinkley, author of “Tour of Duty,” a laudatory book on Kerry’s military service. Last week Brinkley told the London Telegraph that while Kerry had been 50 miles from the border on Christmas, he “went into Cambodian waters three or four times in January and February 1969 on clandestine missions.”

    Clandestine.

  80. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Dammit, Crunchie! Are you using “Go To My PC.com” and spying on which windows I have open?

    :em99:

  81. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Any advocacy group seeking to place a single, full-page, black-and-white ad in The New York Times on “standby” over a seven-day period — the paper picks the day — pays what MoveOn did, $64,575, sources said.

    And here, once again, is a handy dandy description of what “standby” means, from somebody who knows about the biz.

    Not to mention that it’s blatantly absurd on its face. They’re telling us to believe that MorOn.org put an ad specifically directed at a major political event on “within 7 days, if nobody else wants the spot” status, then magically managed to have it appear on the exact right day?

    You’d have to be an extra super special kind of gullible to fall for that grade of bullshit.

  82. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Besides, many of these swifties approved those medals way back then, and now, since they are pissed at Kerry’s activities AFTER his service, they are retracting their story.

    “While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound — he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like ‘Forget it.’ He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom

    I’ll leave the rest of that steaming pile of shit to be torn apart by someone else. It’s late and I have to work in the morning.

  83. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Dammit, Crunchie! Are you using “Go To My PC.com” and spying on which windows I have open?

    I was thinking the same thing BC! I’ll just chalk it up to great minds and all that. :em99:

  84. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    BTW, Muzzy,

    My nephew with the Tourette’s is the same one who served in the USAF, so you’ve insulted me on two fronts. I am too much of a lady to tell you what I REALLY think of you, so I’ll let the guys handle it. They do a MUCH better job.

    You’ve fulfilled every stereotype I’ve ever heard of Brits, and I’m ashamed to admit that the UK is the home of some of my ancestors.

    FOAD.

  85. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    You’d have to be an extra super special kind of gullible to fall for that grade of bullshit.

    Did you forget who we were talking about here Sire?

  86. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    BTW, management, if I edit a post, the box stays open for a very long time, even after I click submit after the edit.

    How do I get a new box to post in?

  87. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    You’ve fulfilled every stereotype I’ve ever heard of Brits

    Arrogant, condescending twits SkyeChild? With all due respects to the good Brits who still have Richard the Lionheart’s blood coursing through their veins.

  88. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    How do I get a new box to post in?

    Just back out of the thread and come back in SkyeChild.

  89. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Crunchie, if you’re still reading this, come up on Yahoo, ya’ damned yahoo.

  90. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Thanks, Crunchie. That worked!

  91. Unregistered Comment by DukeFenton

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    #39 by Muzzy

    John Kerry’s war record… a distinguished soldier.

    Well, isn’t that - interesting. Benedict Arnold was also ‘distinguished’ - before that incident at West Point, for his service at Saratoga; afterwards, for his treason and perfidy. ‘Distinguished,’ indeed.

    And Kerry wasn’t a soldier, he was a squid. A Reserve squid, no less. Pity they didn’t scrap him along with that rusty scupper he used to float in.

    #41 by Muzzy

    Check my location.

    Mr. < *SPIT*> Galloway’s district, I shouldn’t wonder.

    #80 by DJ Allyn

    then why does Kerry still have the medals?

    He doesn’t - he threw them away. Or maybe they were someone else’s, or maybe he got replacements, or something…seems like Kerry himself can’t quite remember. Anyway, so long as he gets to spit in the face of American troops while benefiting from everything they’re fighting and dying to preserve for us, who cares?

    Besides, many of these swifties approved those medals

    OK, DJ, I know you’re almost totally ignorant (and thus contemptuous) of the military, but even you have to know this is bullshit. Medals are *awarded* based on a recommendation which is *approved* by a commanding officer. There wouldn’t be ‘many’ people involved in the first place; in fact, only one person ‘approved’ them in any meaningful sense - can you get a quote from him? Oh, that’s right, those records are not available. How about the doctor who examined him? Those records are conveniently missing as well. How about the guy who wrote the recommendation? Oh, that’s right, Kerry wrote his own recommendations…

  92. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    No, actually it hasn’t been “proven” except in the vast echo chamber of Right-wing blogs.

    Yeah, I guess the soldiers who were there can’t possibly have as much credibility as you, Dave. I mean, they were there - wadda they know, hm?

    Call it a Right-wing circle jerk and the truth was the pivot post.

    So-called by a leftard hack who’s so full of shit he doesn’t need Just For Men.

    If there was any validity to your claims and the claims of the swift boat activists, then why does Kerry still have the medals?

    Because we don’t have a Commander-in-Chief in the White House who has the cojones to order them rescinded. Thank whatever deity you pay homage to that I’m not the President, Dave, because that would’ve been one of the first 20 things I’d've done.

    But let’s turn it around, Dave: If their claims didn’t have any cred, any merit - why didn’t al-Qetchupa$$ win the election? Hmmmmmmmm???

    But let’s get back to this OUTRAGE over the story that the NYT gave MoveOn this huge, special rate cut supposedly because it was a “lefty” discount.

    Damn, Misha knocked that one out of the park before I could get to it. Damn.

    Kinda hard to dispute that, except that you don’t like the publications reporting it. But hey, if you can dispute what was just said, be my guest — I am all ears.

    The simple fact that it’s MorOn.org postulating it makes it full of shit - just like you, Dave.

    Most people know that this is a civil war by any definition you want to use. It is religious in nature, and it is the last place we need to be.

    You’re gonna have to show me more than 1007 people on each coast polled by the NY Slimes before I’m going to believe that “most people” crock, Dave.

    There are some 300,000,000 people in this country, Dave. Start dialing.

    Well, he was the latest scapegoat that Bush nominated to head up CentCom.

    What have I told you about using bullshit sites for your links, Dave?

    He apparently knows more than you or I on the subject, I am sure. And since he is Petraeus’ superior, I suspect he knows more than he does too.

    I don’t have to remind you that he definately knows more than President Chuckles.

    Y’know, I’m getting damned sick & tired of you pulling out that “Bush is stupid” meme all the time. Show me your Harvard & Yale degrees. Put up or shut up, Dave.

    Until then, let’s just give you a new nickname: “Dr. Dumbass”.

    Here is the problem: The Pentagon bench isn’t all that deep any more. Bush has gotten rid of just about anyone who would dare disagree with his insanity.

    In other words, all the Clintonoid dick-suckers. All the pissweasels with a vested interest in their masters being Demoscummic.

    And the problem with that is…?

    The majority of people in this country want a different direction or approach in Iraq.

    The majority of the people in this country want us to win the fuckin’ war - in stark contrast to what your honeyboys in the Imperial Socialist Congress want.

    Or hadn’t you noticed that their approval ratings are down around 15% nowadays?

  93. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    And here, once again, is a handy dandy description of what “standby” means, from somebody who knows about the biz.

    What biz? He is an IT Exec and former military. Now he is an expert at the NYT advertising rates?

    Then there is his silly little complaint to the FEC

    In case you hadn’t noticed, there was nothing in the ad that had anything to do with or about an election of any kind. It was an opinion ad put out by an advocacy group. They bought the “standby” rates and were published on the NYT schedule.

    It doesn’t even fall within the purview of the FEC.

    What is so hard about this?

    You don’t have to agree with the farkin’ message of the ad.

    They could probably have also gotten a break if they had bought fifty full-page ads in advance. But calling the Times to ask how much one full-page ad to run on a specific day? It apparently has a specific price of $181,692.

    Buy an ad on standby (in case there is space that hasn’t been filled or sold) and the price is $65,000.

    I do this shit every day. I guess you could say I am in “the biz”, except I deal with radio spots. Part of my job is the selling of ads, and signing of sponsors. We too have “standby spots” to fill the air. They go for a lot less than the scheduled spots.

    Besides, all this fuss over what the NYT (or any other publication) charges for advertising is probably one of the stupidest things I have heard this week.

    It is a diversion and a political stunt to steal some press.

    And it backfired.

  94. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    What biz? He is an IT Exec and former military. Now he is an expert at the NYT advertising rates?

    Not exactly, but why don’t I let him speak for himself (from the link that I kindly provided you with):

    Hmmmm, once again I worked for Capital Newspapers and sold political and every other type of advertising for them. I am fully conversant in the way newspapers sell ads.

    I’d say he probably knows a thing or two about the newspaper ad selling business, yes.

    As to whether or not his complaint is silly or not I don’t know, but, once again, I’ll let him speak for himself:

    We had a sit down with a lawyer prior to the 2006 election specifically telling us that under no circumstances could we ever discount political or advocacy rates, it was illegal and could destroy the rep of the paper.

    Further, from the complaint itself:

    I sold political advertising for Capital Newspapers in Madison, WI during the 2006 elections. We were informed that there could be absolutely no discounts to the rate card prices for political or advocacy advertising based on federal law. The reason was self-evidently to stop the paper from favoring one viewpoint over another.

    Now, it could be that the lawyers advising his newspapers were all a bunch of liar or nincompoops, and it could be that MorOn.org were just extremely lucky with the placement of their “standby” ad… And it could be that if I buy three lottery tickets next week, I’ll get the jackpot on all of them.

    Still… Who to believe?

  95. Unregistered Comment by DukeFenton

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    #82 by LC 0311

    By your logic then muzzy, I can not comment on the qualities of an officer in the rifle company I served in because I wasn’t in his exact platoon. Bullshit.

    Well said. The Swifties failed to emphasize, and the Kerryites would never admit, that many boats were part of the same unit (not sure of the squid term - squadron?) whose crews rested, took meals, had offices, kept their stuff, and generally hung out on the destroyer which served as their HQ. So yes, they would indeed know each other even if they didn’t patrol together.

  96. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Someone sent this to me to post for His Imperial Vindictiveness™. Thought it’d be a nice break near the century mark.

    To Emperor, With Love

  97. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    one Hundredest! :em41:

  98. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    I’d say he probably knows a thing or two about the newspaper ad selling business, yes.

    I missed that, sorry. I was too busy laughing over his “complaint”.

    Okay, so he worked for a family of tiny papers. Hardly on the same level as the NYT. I am sure the Shopper Stopper isn’t a great comparison.

    The fact is, other news sources have checked it out now and found that yes, the NYT does have standby rates and that is exactly what MoveOn paid.

    As to whether or not his complaint is silly or not I don’t know, but, once again, I’ll let him speak for himself:

    We had a sit down with a lawyer prior to the 2006 election specifically telling us that under no circumstances could we ever discount political or advocacy rates, it was illegal and could destroy the rep of the paper.

    I find it ironic that on one hand you can blast attorneys from here to breakfast, yet on the other hand you can take their sage advice to the bank.

    I have a friend who is an attorney also. He is a great guy, but I never would use him for any legal advice. He could find an argument for any side of an issue, no matter how far-fetched and convoluted it might be.

    I know a lot of attorneys who can argue just about any position you can think of. The fact of the matter, THIS particular complaint is a moot issue and the FEC lacks jurisdiction. Sure, you can file any complaint you want. I could file a complaint with them complaining about the burned out street light in front of my house. It will get just as far as his complaint.

    MoveOn was not and is not promoting a candidate in an election at this time. They bought an ad to express an opinion of a policy, and managed to get a cheap rate because they bought on standby.

    Still… Who to believe?

    Oh, I dunno, how about the New York Daily News, which actually checked the facts of the story, since it involved two other papers.

    But hey, perhaps you didn’t notice that Rude Gulliani’s ad is going to be running at the same cost as MoveOn’s ad?

    It was unclear, however, when it would run in The New York Times or how much it cost, but sources indicated it was the same $64,575 as MoveOn.org paid.

    He must have bought the standby ad also.

    Again, such a silly argument about nothing. Even the MoveOn ad was about nothing — MoveOn got much more mileage out of it than they ever expected. You guys can’t keep from talking about it, so more and more people wind up seeing it.

    Did you know that prior to today I hadn’t actually seen the ad? I heard bits and pieces about it, but because I am off all this week I haven’t had much time to pay that close attention to it. But you got me to actually go look at the wording of the ad.

    Now I am no big fan of MoveOn, but frankly I don’t see anything out of line with the ad. Maybe a few years ago I would have, but you guys lowered the bar starting back during the Clinton years, so things like this don’t even phase me any more.

    Should we be second-guessing or mistrusting what a General tells us? Well, there was Westmoreland…

    The point is, Patraeus shouldn’t have been in the position of being Bush’s mouthpiece anyways. BUSH should have been point man all along. But he stuck Petraeus up there because Bush doesn’t really have any credibility left anymore. He has no “capital”.

  99. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    To Deej and Muzzy,

    I’m going to say this about J. Kerry as I mentioned in my first post many moons ago on this thread.

    I was about 7 when Kerry tesitifed, ended up in Paris, etc.

    I didn’t even really know who Kerry was going into 2004, I knew only what I saw in the press, and on the occasional blog. I do clearly remember “unbiased” sources cheerleading for Kerry, and that alone gave me pause.

    Anytime a supposed “neutral” press outlet like CBS, NYT etc start “endorsing” one canidate over another I get suspicious. I’ve never agreeed with that practice of “endorsing” a canidate by the press. It destroys any ability by that news outlet to be objective and fair to other canidates.

    Wheather the Swifties allegations are true or not had little or no bearing, but for myself and millions of other Americans the “attacks” by the Swift Boaters made me look much more closely at the man who felt he had the qualifcations to lead the country.

    The simple facts are these:

    1. Kerry went to Paris and spoke out against his own country, there is no denying that the enemy leadership was there.
    2. He touted a war resume that he claimed made him a viable canidate for POTUS. That war resume turned out to be somewhat questionable, 3 months in country is the biggest flag, yet Mr. Kerry expected Millions of Amwericans to accept his service as the golden ring.
    3. Kerry’s “switfboating” helped to bring what many feel were questionable actions of his into light.

    An honest look at the matter, and the actions he took, cannot be denied, pictures of him at anti-war rallys, pictures of him in Paris, etc.

    They most certainly call into question core values needed in the oval office, such as being able to put oneself above the fray and make a choice not based on the political gain to be had, but the good of the country. Can either of you honestly say that his actions in the 70’s prove an ability to do that? No, not honestly, because if you look back the country was tearing itself apart with Anti War sentiment, and it is clear that Kerry choose the most popular view of the time.

    Kerry appearing in pictures with the likes of Jane Fonda and in Paris with the NV Leadership in the early 70’s proved to me that he was more interested in politcal gain than the good of the country back then, and you have to ask 30 years later is he still?

    Compounding this, once under fire from the SB’s Kerry began to “waffle” it’s right there in the record.

    Would of these actions have came to light with out the SB’s? Probably, after all, running for POTUS isn’t exactly a pretty business, (ref. the Bush ANG debacle and CBS), but none the less, the SB’s helped shine a light on a dusty history of questionable actions 30 some odd years ago. A history that seemingly the MSM choose to willingly ignore until the flags went up.

    Any reasonable voter then took the sum of these actions, compared them to other facets of his agenda; domestic policy, taxes, voting record in DC etc, and made their choice, mine was to reject him as unworthy, this rejection was Especially due to his voting records and NOT the SB attacks, but judging from the election map in 2004, for close to 50% of the country the “SBing” of Kerry had little or no impact.

    Stating that SBing Kerry cost him the election is disingenious and an insult to millions of Americans that simply rejected his viability due to his OWN actions and his own records in D.C.

    As the old saying goes…don’t sleep with dogs and you wont get fleas.

  100. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Anytime a supposed “neutral” press outlet like CBS, NYT etc start “endorsing” one canidate over another I get suspicious. I’ve never agreeed with that practice of “endorsing” a canidate by the press. It destroys any ability by that news outlet to be objective and fair to other canidates.

    Every newspaper and media outlet has what is known as an “Editorial Board”. Theoretically, it is separate from the actual news section. Their contributions are commonly referred to as the “Opinion Pages”, but sometimes syndicated columns get salted throughout the paper.

    Some of the syndicated columns are also opinion pieces and really should be labeled as such. A prime example would be Robert Novak. He started out in his carreer as an investigative reporter, but over time has gotten pretty opinionated.

    I don’t really think there are too many actual investigative reporters any more. Those that pretend to be actually have their own axes to grind.

    I have always felt that the moment we lose trust with our media, then we lose our country — because it is the media that keeps the government honest.

    I know you’ve heard me yell about this before, but our media has been taken over by a very few and narrow corporate kabal. You call it “Liberal bias” and the rest of us call it totally inept. The reality is it is corporate pablum. We are fed stories about Brittny Spears, and Paris Hilton, now we get to hear about OJ all over again. Meanwhile we can’t even get a simple story right.

    1. Kerry went to Paris and spoke out against his own country, there is no denying that the enemy leadership was there.

    He did, and he did so as a private citizen. As a US citizen he is free to speak out against the goverment. We fought a revolutionary war against the British for that right to speak out against the country when you think it is doing something wrong.

    Since this blog gets traffic from all over the world, I would say that some of the things said here concerning certain policies of our current government is no better or worse than what Kerry did back then.

    2. He touted a war resume that he claimed made him a viable canidate for POTUS. That war resume turned out to be somewhat questionable, 3 months in country is the biggest flag, yet Mr. Kerry expected Millions of Amwericans to accept his service as the golden ring.

    Bush touted a military resume for the same reason, and it was more questionable than Kerry’s. The only diffence is, that Kerry LET the Swift Boaters go for too long before fighting back. The allegations against Bush were successfully distracted by a bunch of bullshit so that story never really got resolved.

    I didn’t like Kerry any more than I liked Bush. I liked Wesley Clarke, since he obviously had much more military experience in his finger than both the other two numbskulls combined.

    But you Conservatives attacked that decorated general as well — and MUCH more viciously than MoveOn did with Petraeus.

    (I probably shouldn’t mention Spat’s comments above about another decorated Admiral…)

    3. Kerry’s “switfboating” helped to bring what many feel were questionable actions of his into light.

    No, it brought to light a bunch of crap being passed off as truth. Again, I ask, if any of what they were saying is true, then how is it Kerry still has his medals? Why weren’t they stripped from him?

    An honest look at the matter, and the actions he took, cannot be denied, pictures of him at anti-war rallys, pictures of him in Paris, etc.

    Yes, and some of those pictures were doctored too.

    But so what? He was against the war just as the majority of people back then were. And most people today think that the war back then was wrong.

    Compounding this, once under fire from the SB’s Kerry began to “waffle” it’s right there in the record.

    Hell, Bush could open a waffle house himself. Bush was one thing to one group of people and said just the comlete opposite to other people — all in the same day. It is politics.

  101. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    I find it odd that questioning the veracity of the SBV is viewed as an attack on the active and retired military people on the site. It seems like apples and oranges. All except for one of the veterans on Kerry’s boat backed up his story: there are veterans on either side of the issue. I do believe that most vets hated JK because of his antiwar activity. I was very young during the Vietnam War and have only a vague recollection of Paris, if anyone is in the mood to enlighten me on that.

    The SBV received their funding from a Bush donor. That does not make them incorrect, but it does make their objectivity a little more questionable.

    I don’t know if the Washington Post is viewed as evil, too. They had a very long article looking at the pros and cons of the accusations. It seems there was dodginess on both sides.
    Here is a quote from the article:

    “With the exception of a sailor named Stephen Gardner, who served with Kerry in late 1968 on PCF-44, Kerry’s own crew members have remained loyal to him. “If it wasn’t for some of his decisions, we would probably be some of the names in that wall,” said Gene Thorson, the engineman on PCF-94, referring to the Vietnam War Memorial. “I respect him very much.”‘

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html

    Now as far as lying weaselness in general, I’m not qualified to comment–just wanted to point out that it is not necessarily anti-military to hold an opposing viewpoint on this.

  102. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    PS. was busy writing and did not see DJ’s post–sorry if there is overlap.

  103. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Snarl
    Your post was really eloquent–I’m just addressing a subset of the issues. You make a really good case overall.

  104. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    I don’t really think there are too many actual investigative reporters any more. Those that pretend to be actually have their own axes to grind.

    Agreed

    He did, and he did so as a private citizen. As a US citizen he is free to speak out against the goverment. We fought a revolutionary war against the British for that right to speak out against the country when you think it is doing something wrong.

    Are you really going to sit there and say that with a straight face?

    On his OWN web site he purported to have been dischared in 1975. He was in Paris in 1970 and in front of Senator Fullbright in 1971 ADMITTING to being in Paris. He as most officers had a 6 year minimum commitment that started in 1966. Do the Math..unless he was discharged early for medical or as some beleive under “other than honorable” circumstances, he was not a private citizen, he was in the U.S. Naval Reserve.

    What he was a private citizin before he was a U.S. Naval Reserve Officer, Before he was a….?!

    Try again.

    No, it brought to light a bunch of crap being passed off as truth. Again, I ask, if any of what they were saying is true, then how is it Kerry still has his medals? Why weren’t they stripped from him?

    Mmmm the Executive order of one Jimmie CAHter granting amnesty to anti-war protesters who were still in the military when they committed treason maybe?

    Hell, Bush could open a waffle house himself. Bush was one thing to one group of people and said just the comlete opposite to other people — all in the same day. It is politics.

    Not talking about Bush are we? We’re talking about Kerry. Keep your eyes on the ball, I know it’s hard when you you can’t see beyond those BDS Blinders but try M’kay?
    But if your going to sling some mud, let’s talk about being one thing to one group and one to another..Hilldabeast is a champion at it,

    “I don’ feeel no wayyys tuired, I’s come a looon wass…!!”

    NOW That was some funny shit right there…. :em99:

  105. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    Snarl
    Your post was really eloquent–I’m just addressing a subset of the issues. You make a really good case overall.

    “Eloquent” and “Snarl” should never be used in the same breath, lest the grammer gods smite thee. :em99:

    But thank you all the same!

  106. Muzzy Comment by Muzzy

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    First off, I should apologise to Misha for doing whatever it was I did that caused Spam Karma to eat my post 64, forcing me to repost it in smaller chunks further down the thread. I think the thread would actually make more sense if post 64 were deleted.

    Anyway, moving on…

    maxxpig

    You got me on the dates. It was a rather lame mistake.

    Yes! He can be taught!

    Just kidding. Given the spectacularly piss poor job John Kerry has done at setting the record straight in this regard, I will admit that yours was a pretty easy mistake to make.

    It still doesn’t excuse his actions upon returning from Vietnam. His lies before Congress, throwing his or someone’s medals over the fence, meeting with reps of North Vietnam and his book. The mental pain he inflicted on Vietnam vets will never be forgiven. His words were used during torture sessions of our POWs.

    So much muck has been flung at Kerry over the years that I’m forced to ask for cites for your claims here. Specifically, I want cites proving Kerry lied before congress, and that his words were used during torture sessions of American POW’s.

    Having said that, however, I should make it clear that the fact Kerry’s words were used during torture sessions is not his fault. It’s not like he could ring up his record label and have the Vietcong torturers sued for breach of copyright. Your argument seems to imply that any criticism of a war, a sitting President at a time of war, battle tactics, or battlefield atrocities, should be forbidden lest some enterprising torturer use such criticism during the execution of his tender ministrations. Needless to say, this attitude is not conducive to the free and robust public debate that forms the cornerstone of American democracy.

    He does indeed have his picture in the War Museum in Vietnam.

    Two points:

    1) It is true that John Kerry has his picture in the war museum in Vietnam. Its presence there has been blown out of all proportion by the SBVT’ers desperate to smear Kerry. Kaiser Wilhelm’s picture is hanging in London’s Imperial War Museum. Does that in any way imply that he gave “aid and comfort” to British & American forces during WWI?

    2) As I have already stated, Kerry’s photo was taken in 1993 during a diplomatic mission to Vietnam intended to solidify international relations between Washington and Hanoi. The photo, one of many taken during that expedition, resides in a section of the war museum devoted to documenting the restoration of diplomatic relations between America & Vietnam. It is not, in any way, a tribute to Kerry. In Unfit for Command (pg. 167) John O’ Neill wrote “Kerry is in the North Vietnamese war museum as a hero”. This is a baldfaced lie. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the displaying of Kerry’s picture is, in any way, an act of commemoration by the Vietnamese people. Robert MacNamara’s picture also hangs in the very same section of the very same museum, as does the wonderfully named Elmo Zumwalt’s. Does that in any way imply that they were considered heroes by the Vietnamese?

    BTW,I was just informed by sources that I was also wrong about your mom having herpes. It was actually syphilis!

    And your mom is such a spunk-hungry slutbag that she got fired from a sperm bank for drinking on the job. Please, if you’re going to try and flame, try to come up with something a little more original than ‘mom jokes’. Ta ta.

    LC 0311 crunchie

    Article III, sect 3 of the U.S. Constitution “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”

    Does anyone have a clear and unambiguous definition, or set of definitions, clarifying precisely what is denoted by the phrase “aid and comfort”? Such a nebulous phrase could theoretically encompass any and all criticism of any war, and of any sitting war President. I’ll give you an example. On the eve of the war in Kosovo, Sean Hannity said the following live on air:

    They haven’t prepared for anything in this. And they’re running out of weapons to do it. and frankly, I don’t think Clinton has the moral authority, or the ability to fight this war correctly.

    Would that qualify as “giving aid and comfort” to the enemy? After all, he has just told Slobodan Milosevic & his soldiers that the U.S. Army was under prepared, under equipped, and led by an incompetent. If I were a Serbian soldier, and I heard one of my enemies most popular broadcasters defaming his own army like that, I’d be pretty comforted.

    So does anyone have a definition of “aid and comfort” which doesn’t condemn critics as traitors?

    Kerry testified under oath to the US Congress that he had participated in and witnessed atrocities that never occurred, undermining the moral authority of the troops still fighting, and giving the enemy propaganda war a valuable weapon, one that was in fact used by NV interrogators while they tortured our POWS’.

    Whoa! Hold your horses there. You’re telling me that John Kerry told Congress, under oath, that he had witnessed, and participated in battlefield atrocities? That gets a big, fat “Cite, please!”. Your claim is categorically untrue. Did you hear that bullshit from the Swifties? If so you should just dismiss it as another of their many, many lies.

    I have in front of me a transcript of Kerry’s testimony to the U.S. Congress dated 22/04/1971, and at no point does he even remotely imply that he had personally participated in or witnessed any atrocities.

    Second of all, let’s think for a moment about the Winter Soldier investigation that gave rise to the snippet of Kerry’s testimony you find so objectionable. More than 125 veterans spoke publicly, on videotape, about the atrocities they witnessed and/or participated in. Which testimonies, in particular, have been proven to be false? What is the evidentiary basis for dismissing these claims as false? As an aside, I find it rather incongruous for you to react with such anaphylactic ferocity when charges of dishonesty are levelled at the Swifties, while simultaneously dismissing as lies the testimony of those veterans who spoke at the Winter Soldier investigation. So yeah, I would like names and specifics, please.

    As regards your charge that Kerry’s testimony “undermined the moral authority of the troops still fighting” may I observe that this destabilising effect was not contingent on the truth value of Kerry’s claims. That is to say, if the mere utterance of Kerry’s accusations was enough to undermine the troops, it follows that they would have been undermined regardless of whether Kerry was lying or telling the truth. Given this, I must bluntly ask you two questions:

    1) Do you believe that criticism of an ongoing war, or of a sitting war President, is morally unacceptable?
    2) Do you believe that it is morally acceptable to sweep accounts of battlefield atrocities under the carpet to protect the “moral authority” of troops in the field?

    Finally, as I said to maxxdog, it’s not Kerry’s fault that Vietnamese torturers used his words to demoralize American soldiers. I mean, it’s not like he could sue them for breach of copyright. Dozens of prominent Republicans criticised the war in Kosovo. Should they all be condemned as traitors? Did Pat Buchanan, who wrote that the war in Kosovo was “an unjust war”, give “aid and comfort” to the enemy? Is any criticism permitted?

    Kerry met with delegates from North Vietnam in Paris during the war in 1970.

    Okay. First of all, your article is from NewsMax. NewsMax is an unashamedly pro-Conservative website. Its founder, Christopher W. Ruddy, describes NewsMax as “The leading independent news site with a Conservative perspective”. So the website wears its bias clearly on its sleeve. This incidental background information makes it easier to see why your article is so disingenuous and so hell bent on misdirecting the reader. Obviously, NewsMax wants people to think badly of John Kerry. That’s why the reporter introduced Jerry Corsi as “An author and researcher who has studied the issue” rather than as a fucking founder of the Swift Boat Veterans For Fucking Truth and co-author of “Unfit for Command!” Now, I don’t know about you, but some people would consider that information pertinent. Imagine if Michael Moore tried a stunt like that. Imagine if Michael Moore had gotten some medical authority to attest to the benefits of socialized health care without telling his viewers that said authority stood to profit from the collapse of the HMO system. You would have nailed his fucking balls to the wall.
    So, anyway. Your article stands convicted of some pretty egregious dishonesty before its even gotten fully underway. Let’s examine it further to see if there are any other problems with it. Oh look, here’s one:

    According to Corsi, Kerry violated U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953. “A U.S. citizen cannot go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power,” Corsi told CNSNews.com.

    I checked the statute and, for once, it seems like Corsi is telling the truth…at least about the statute. At no point does he provide any evidence that Kerry negotiated with any foreign power. Yes, Kerry was in Paris in 1970, and yes, Kerry did converse with Madam Binh and other Vietnamese delegates, but unless you can prove that these conversations were actual negotiations, then Corsi’s charge is utterly specious. Worse, it’s yet another outright lie.
    This article from the Boston Globe sheds more light on this (requires registration. It’s free and takes two minutes).

    Kerry’s actions and words provided substantial comfort and aid to the enemy of the US.

    I think we’ve covered this enough. Suffice it to say that you really must put forward a comprehensive definition of “aid and comfort” before you can accuse anybody of giving it to the enemy.

    Kerry’s use of POW families directly advanced the North Vietnamese communist agenda as described by enemy defectors and in the newly discovered Circular, which suggests that Madame Binh had recommended the same course of action to antiwar activists meeting with her in Paris.

    What, precisely, in this particular “Circular” leads you to believe that Kerry was taking orders from Madam Binh, as the link suggests? Could it not be that Kerry & Binh simply had a similar goal: The ending of the Vietnam war?

    Kerry is hailed by the Viet Namese govt as a hero who assisted them prosecute the war.

    This assertion is not supported by your cite. In fact, your case against Senator Kerry is extremely unpersuasive, and reveals disturbing aspects of your mentality (particularly in relation to the role of critics in wartime), and an over reliance on sources who are not only biased but are proud of it, and citations of authorities who lie with all the sweaty desperation of a pederast caught hiding in a playground. Try again.

    Lady Heather

    First of all, thank you for correcting me earlier when I forgot those instances where B.C. had swallowed his disgust and stepped up to the plate for me. It was terribly remiss of me to forget that.
    Second of all, I would like to take this opportunity to ask you two questions about this statement:

    what he did when he came back was giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and for that reason his ass should have been deported to North Viet Nam instead of sitting in the United States Senate.

    It seems very much like you’re taking a similar line to LC 0311 crunchie as regards Kerry’s criticism of the U.S. war effort. May I ask, do you consider all criticism of ongoing wars, sitting war Presidents and the like, to be “treasonous”? Or was it just that you thought Kerry’s testimony crossed a line? If the latter, where do you think this line is, and how would one voice criticism while staying on the right side of it?
    LC 0311 crunchie again:

    Senator Kerry may argue today that his anti-war protests did not render support to the enemy in time of war and that his activities did not violate the definition of treason given in Article III, Section 3, of the US Constitution. This exhibit paying tribute to Kerry in the War Protestors Hall of the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City tells a very different story. The Vietnamese communists clearly feel that the American anti-war protestors were a very important force in undermining support in the United States for American war efforts, a force that contributed materially to ultimate communist victory in 1975.

    First of all, a polite request? When linking, could you please endeavour to not make your entire message text clickable? It makes copying & pasting unnecessarily difficult. Thanks.

    Second of all, I simply wanted to reiterate what I said to maxxdog earlier. That photograph was not paying tribute to Kerry. He doesn’t have his own exhibit. His photo is one of many taken of a diplomatic mission in 1993 and the museum is simply displaying them to help document the reconstruction of diplomatic relations between America and Vietnam.
    LC Skyechild G.L.O.R. wrote:

    I have a nephew with Tourette’s, and Muzzy’s attempt at a joke is neither funny nor appreciated. I thought the libs were supposed to be the “tolerant” ones? Jerk.

    I certainly hope your nephew has a thicker skin than you do, because my joke was fairly innocuous y’know. If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were just looking for something to get offended over. How terribly PC of you.

    B.C.:

    You are taking issue with my claim that Kerry never said he went into Cambodia on a “secret mission”. You clearly believe that Kerry did say he went into Cambodia on a “secret mission”. To support this you quote an article from the Washington Post. Now, I like the Washington Post. In fact, it’s one of my favourite papers. However, I must say (because you didn’t, and should have done) that your source is not a news article but an opinion piece. Opinion pieces are, as you know, subject to lower standards of accuracy than news reports, as this rather disingenuously inaccurate article shows. Furthermore, it was written by Joshua Muravchik who is a prominent Neo-Conservative in the full-time employ of the American Enterprise Institute. Suffice it to say, the man has a vested interest in making Kerry look bad. Still, it’s an opinion column, obviously there’s going to be a bias. That’s not my real problem with your article.
    My real problem with your article is that it doesn’t successfully rebut my argument. Let’s look closely at the money quote from the article:

    But the point of Kerry’s 1986 speech was that he personally had taken part in a secret and illegal war in a neutral country.

    Okay, let’s break this down a little. First of all this line, by writer Joshua Muravchik, is in response to this quote of John Kerry’s. Remember, Kerry is adamant that, while he did enter Cambodia, he did not do so on any secret mission.

    From John Kerry’s Senate testimony
    “I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared — seared — in me.”

    Now, Muravchik reads this as an admission by Kerry that he was on a “secret mission” in Cambodia. He presumably gets this from the bit about the “President telling the American people that I was not there”.
    This is a deliberately disingenuous reading of Kerry’s words. At no point did Kerry say or imply he was engaging in secret or illegal activities. He is only stating that, around Christmas of that year, he found himself inside the Cambodian border, that he wasn’t alone in making this trespass, and that the President was denying his actions. These statements are perfectly compatible with an impromptu or accidental incursion into Cambodian territory. The assertion that Kerry was on a “secret mission” is a serious one which requires serious evidence. If this idiotic parsing of the Senator’s language is the best that the Swifties could do, then they have fallen so far short of the acceptable evidentiary benchmark that they can reasonably be called liars.

    If a flaming Librul gets The Bullshit Flag™ thrown on ‘em by the Washington ComPost, then you can rest assured that there’s a flagrant (AND fragrant) bullshit foul and the resulting 15 yard walk-off is richly deserved.

    Not if the reporter in question works for the AEI. The bias card you guys love to play so much works both ways y’know.
    LC 0311 crunchie yet again:

    By your logic then muzzy, I can not comment on the qualities of an officer in the rifle company I served in because I wasn’t in his exact platoon. Bullshit.

    Bullshit right back atcha, sugartits. You are, predictably, missing the point. I never said that those people who didn’t serve directly under Kerry had no right to comment whatsoever. I simply said that they were more distant from him than was implied by the advertisement. The ad talks about “The people who served alongside John Kerry”, right? The word ‘alongside’ suggests that his critics spent at least some time working close by him. In fact, this is just another load of Swiftie shit, as the overwhelming majority of participants only served ‘alongside’ Kerry in a very loose sense of the word. Someone in that position could certainly comment about Kerry, but should temper their comments with others to the effect that they weren’t serving side by side and, thusly, they cannot supply anyone with the complete picture. The advertisement didn’t even attempt make this clear, instead allowing all who viewed it to come to the mistaken conclusion that these men were close compatriots of the much maligned Senator.

    That’s half of Kerry’s “distinguished” tour. He may have been factually incorrect, an easy enough mistake if someone else had actually served on the boat a bit longer, but still enough time to know the “qualities” of Kerry.

    1) Kerry’s tour was distinguished. He won three purple hearts, a bronze star, and a silver star.

    2) I’m going to hold Steve Gardner to the same standard of evidence to which you guys hold John Kerry and stick with my original opinion that he was lying about the relative length of his service. He was confident enough in his bullshit to spew it on national television, and he had plenty of opportunity to check the accuracy of his planned statements before making them so indelibly and before such a large audience, but he did not. Fuck him. The man’s a liar.
    3) How do you know how long it takes to get to know John Kerry? Are you in possession of some sort of formula? Are you in his top 8?

    Arrogant, condescending twits SkyeChild? With all due respects to the good Brits who still have Richard the Lionheart’s blood coursing through their veins.

    How the fuck can I not be arrogant when talking to an obnoxious old fool who wouldn’t know Richard the Lionheart from a Pop Tart & is convinced his politics makes him a badass?

    DukeFenton
    I really couldn’t see anything worthy of response in your post. I’m not an expert on Benedict Arnold but I have no reason to suspect your analogy is valid. For what it’s worth I’m not in Galloway’s district, think he looks like Pop ‘n Fresh’s evil twin, and has the personal politics of a Jihadi. Fuck him.

    I think that’s enough for now.

  107. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Okay, so he worked for a family of tiny papers. Hardly on the same level as the NYT.

    Nope, but they use the same policies. Same with laboratory practices. I’ve worked in both small, large and huge hospitals, and I assure you that SOP is the same in all. Only the volume changes.

    The fact is, other news sources have checked it out now and found that yes, the NYT does have standby rates and that is exactly what MoveOn paid.

    That may be true, but that’s not the issue here. The issue is that they didn’t get standby conditions. Unless you, as I mentioned, are a very “special” kind of gullible. Or would you consider it just fine, fair and dandy if I were to get “standby” rates on an airline seat, yet still magically happen to get just the flight that I wanted to begin with?

    Sure, it’s possible, it’s just not very likely.

    I find it ironic that on one hand you can blast attorneys from here to breakfast, yet on the other hand you can take their sage advice to the bank.

    No irony there. The reason I’m likely to listen to an attorney’s advice in cases such as this is the exact same reason that I blast them on a regular basis. If anybody, anybody in the world can predict where a lawsuit may arise, it would be an attorney. For the very simple reason that they make a living out of manufacturing cases even when no case ought to, by any reasonable standard, exist. They know all the tricks in the books because they use them all day long, so where’s the irony in taking their advice on the subject of how to avoid having those tricks used against you?

    Besides, Federal law is pretty damn clear on this particular issue, so it’s not like any trickery needs to be involved in the first place.

    But hey, perhaps you didn’t notice that Rude Gulliani’s ad is going to be running at the same cost as MoveOn’s ad?

    I did. And they did so after much hemming and hawing. Now tell me, please: If their original sale to MorOn.org was absolutely spotlessly innocent, then why on Earth would they allow themselves to be pressured into losing money on a second ad?

    Standard CYA procedure. They know damn good and well that they were giving MorOn.org the family discount and that their feeble-minded cover story won’t hold water for long, so they just want it all to go away as quickly as possible.

    That’s the only reason why they’d do that. Otherwise, if their case was rock solid, they’d just tell Rudy that he could have a standby ad on standard terms too or he could fark off. No way in hell that they’d throw $100,000 out the window otherwise.

    It’s not the lie that gets you. It’s the cover-up.

    Even the MoveOn ad was about nothing — MoveOn got much more mileage out of it than they ever expected. You guys can’t keep from talking about it, so more and more people wind up seeing it.

    Works fine for me. I want as many people as possible to see MorOn.org calling a highly decorated general “traitor.” That’s a feature, not a bug.

    Sure, you don’t see anything wrong with it, but I can assure you that you’re not typical.

    The point is, Patraeus shouldn’t have been in the position of being Bush’s mouthpiece anyways. BUSH should have been point man all along. But he stuck Petraeus up there because Bush doesn’t really have any credibility left anymore.

    He “stuck him up there” with the unanimous consent of the same DemCongs who are now calling him incompetent, a “stooge”, a liar and worse.

    Because they don’t like the news that he is bringing.

    Shoot the messenger.

    And that is backfiring.

  108. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    First off, I should apologise to Misha for doing whatever it was I did that caused Spam Karma to eat my post 64, forcing me to repost it in smaller chunks further down the thread.

    <noflame>

    Nothing to apologize for, really. For there to be something to apologize for, you’d have had to know what was going to happen and why, yet do it anyway.

    Normally, I’d say what I usually say: “If your comment doesn’t display immediately, it is NOT because it has disappeared, so do NOT post it again and again, hoping that it will go through the next time. It won’t, and it will only convince Akismet that you’re spam. Just have patience and wait for Management™ to bring it back from Purgatory.”

    But, and this is a big “but”, in your particular case you were being pressured quite a bit to reply from other commenters, so I can certainly understand why you’d be more than just a little bit eager to work around the filter. No harm, no foul.

    </noflame>

    Now carry on, you despicable, dimwitted tosser. ;)

  109. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    No harm, no foul.

    Now carry on, you despicable, dimwitted tosser.

    :em95: :em95: :em99: :em99: :em94:

  110. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    ..I’m ok now,,
    ‘Meant to toss a little fuel in al’ qerry’s hair,, seein’ his butt’s been burnt a long time.
    Decide for y’self on their credibility.
    These ACSA folks are largely just a bunch of geeks. :em93:

  111. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    You’ve fulfilled every stereotype I’ve ever heard of Brits, and I’m ashamed to admit that the UK is the home of some of my ancestors.

    I know what you’re talking about, Sky, except mine were *asked* to leave, by a breed of Englishman that no longer exists on the whole…possessing both a spine and testicles, this Englishman of old kept a stiff upper lip, and could see things through. Now they just watch crimes occur on cameras, and lament the high rate of stabbings since they confiscated all the guns…and ‘negotiate’ with muslim pirates for the return of sailors so lacking in gumption that they failed to put up any resemblance of resistance to their capture.

  112. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Muzzy,

    Please, if you’re going to try and flame, try to come up with something a little more original than ‘mom jokes’

    Hey, he was just following YOUR example:

    *Unless one’s mother has Tourette’s syndrome, in which case it would be both funny and a useful bonding exercise.

    And, as for my being PC for being offended over a “joke”…the only ones I ever hear making jokes about people with any type of handicap are the dolts (that’s you), the uneducated, the boors (again, you fit both of those), and the liberals…..waddya know? You fit ALL of those.

    I don’t ever want to hear again that the liberals are the “compassionate ones.”

    Normally, I don’t wish bad things upon anyone, but I’ll make an exception in YOUR case.

  113. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Jeezus fuckin’ crisco, Muzzy. You are being so fuckin’ obtuse that I’m not going to bother with you after this. When Fuckface gave his speech on the floor of the US Senate, HE WAS SPEAKING AGAINST USING CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS TO SUPPORT “THE GOOD GUYS” IN THEIR FIGHT AGAINST A MARXIST DICTATOR. Fuckface DID, in fact, mean EXACTLY that his “Seared into my memory” Cambodian Christmas™ fantasy was A CLANDESTINE OPERATION.

    His service in Viet Nam WAS NOT “distinguished”. He had a plan to run over, get a few scratches, write himself up for Purple Hearts & other medals and get the fuck out as quickly as possible. His only reason for going was to establish his “skreet kred”, ala John F. Kennedy, so that he could come back and run for office and gain power.

    I’m not going to bother wasting anymore of my weekend arguing with someone so deluded that it’s laughable. Fly over to Massachusetts and become his cabana boy. All I know is that if your US brethren Socialist Short Bus Riders™ would ever put down their bongs and bring on their fuckin’ Revolución!, we’re going to make damned sure that Fuckface is going to be one of the first ones to walk to the gallows for his treason.

    BTW, say “Hi!” your mother. The dog is much calmer after receiving her services. (Although he was a bit embarrassed about the Mexican camera crew there filming the whole thing. But she insisted.)

    (Note: Don’t EVER start a disrespecting session about mothers with me, you cock-swallowing colon-spelunker. You’ll end up slitting your limp Limey wrists and jumping into the Thames from the mental anguish.)

    Fuckhead.

  114. Unregistered Comment by DukeFenton

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    #108 by Muzzy

    I think the thread would actually make more sense if post 64 were deleted.

    It would make more sense if all your posts were deleted. Fortunately our beloved Emperor is tolerant and merciful - to a point.

    Anyway, moving on…

    Yes, you *would* use that phrase, wouldn’t you?

    Given the spectacularly piss poor job John Kerry has done at setting the record straight in this regard, I will admit that yours was a pretty easy mistake to make.

    And yet Gardner makes a mistake about a few days duration in regard to events over 30 years ago, and you dismiss him as a “fucking liar.” Interesting.

    Having said that, however, I should make it clear that the fact Kerry’s words were used during torture sessions is not his fault.

    Actually, it is. This was not only a reasonably foreseeable consequence, it was part of his *intent* to provide material which could be used to demoralize and discredit American troops.

    1) Do you believe that criticism of an ongoing war, or of a sitting war President, is morally unacceptable?

    It may be, if:
    a) It contains knowing lies or gross exaggeration;
    b) It is spread for the specific purpose of undermining morale and weakening national resolve, rather than the application of actual justice; or
    c) It is conducted at the behest of, for the benefit of, and/or in collusion with the enemy.

    Kerry did all three.

    2) Do you believe that it is morally acceptable to sweep accounts of battlefield atrocities under the carpet to protect the “moral authority” of troops in the field?

    It is morally acceptable to to keep such incidents confidential until the investigation and hearings are complete. Conversely, it is morally unacceptable to harp on, lie about, invent, exaggerate, or hobby-horse such incidents; especially when done for the purpose of damaging national morale and resolve, and to encourage the enemy. It is also morally unacceptable to intentionally cover up, lie about, minimize, make excuses for, or by selective failure to cite imply that enemy atrocities don’t occur.

    Finally, as I said to maxxdog, it’s not Kerry’s fault that Vietnamese torturers used his words to demoralize American soldiers.

    Yes, it is. Any reasonably intelligent person could have foreseen such a result, especially one with military experience. Moreover, it was the stated *INTENT* of the antiwar movement that their claims would be used against American troops in combat zones.

    Okay. First of all, your article is from NewsMax. NewsMax is an unashamedly pro-Conservative website.

    I notice you do a lot of this, Muzzie. You label some source as ‘Conservative’ or other negative (to you) term and then claim that they always lie and everything they say can be simply waved away without the need for pesky evidence and reason. This is called ‘poisoning the well’ - it is a common logical fallacy resorted to by those with no actual counter. The mere fact that you use it - and do so with such frequency - speaks volumes about your paucity of substantial argument.

    So the website wears its bias clearly on its sleeve.

    Isn’t that more honest than hiding a bias while pretending to be objective? At least you know what you’re getting.

    At no point does he provide any evidence that Kerry negotiated with any foreign power. Yes, Kerry was in Paris in 1970, and yes, Kerry did converse with Madam Binh and other Vietnamese delegates, but unless you can prove that these conversations were actual negotiations, then Corsi’s charge is utterly specious.

    He was still in uniform and did not have clearance to meet with enemy agents under any circumstances. That alone is a violation. Not that I would expect you to understand that, or admit if you did.

    1) Kerry’s tour was distinguished. He won three purple hearts, a bronze star, and a silver star.

    All of which he recommended to himself, it should be mentioned. Perhaps his commanders were sufficiently impressed, or simply stupid enough, to approve them; it still reeks of self-promotion.

    And FYI, it was common for draftees to ‘punch out’ if they managed 3 PH’s - for a self-promoting ‘volunteer’ to do so and leave his men in the jungle does not go over well with enlisted. Again, not being a military person I wouldn’t expect you to understand that; and being as intellectually dishonest as you are, I wouldn’t expect you to admit if you did.

    DukeFenton
    I really couldn’t see anything worthy of response in your post.

    And yet you did, if only to engage in some condescending handwaving. It seems more like you have nothing of substance to respond *with*.

    I’m not an expert on Benedict Arnold but I have no reason to suspect your analogy is valid.

    So you admit you’re dismissing a point out of hand when you have no idea what the subject matter is? That’s very telling.

    Here’s the capsule review: Benedict Arnold was a colonial officer in the Revolutionary War who served with some distinction, notably at the Battle of Saratoga. Arnold felt that he wasn’t given sufficient credit, which he craved to feed his ambition for promotion. Merely out of spite, he met with the British and arranged to hand over West Point to them - at the time it was a major fortification, not yet an academy. Fortunately the plot was foiled, else the entire Revolution might have been over almost before it began. Ergo, Benedict Arnold is the quintessential image of a traitor in American iconography. Mr. Kerry served - well, respectably, anyway - then turned traitor and undermined his own nation in order to feed his ego and ambitions. To those of us who actually *DO* know what we’re talking about, the comparison is very apt.

    For what it’s worth I’m not in Galloway’s district, think he looks like Pop ‘n Fresh’s evil twin, and has the personal politics of a Jihadi. Fuck him.

    If you’re not in Galloway’s pocket, you might as well be. You’re certainly his kind of arrogant, abrasive jackass.

  115. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    And yet you did, if only to engage in some condescending handwaving. It seems more like you have nothing of substance to respond *with*.

    I believe I said that already. See comment 50.

  116. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    I don’t ever want to hear again that the liberals are the “compassionate ones.”

    They aren’t, Skyechild, they aren’t. A common tactic is to coerce you into taking one step forward, they taking one step back, screaming intolerance when you run out of steps. Elementary shit, but it often works. Unless it is with someone like me, who truly doesn’t give a shit what they think or feel. Not my problem, but their actions do remain my concern. I learned that thirty years ago, the lesson never forgotten. I find it more delightful to simply watch them rage and seethe at their losses, in particular second amendment issues. The smart ones knowing full well millions possess both the ability and willingness to defend my American birthright. I am one of them. So let the impotent rage manifest itself……..the bottom line here is they knowing it will cost more than any man can afford to pay, at least more than once.

  117. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    On his OWN web site he purported to have been dischared in 1975. He was in Paris in 1970 and in front of Senator Fullbright in 1971 ADMITTING to being in Paris. He as most officers had a 6 year minimum commitment that started in 1966. Do the Math..unless he was discharged early for medical or as some beleive under “other than honorable” circumstances, he was not a private citizen, he was in the U.S. Naval Reserve.

    Did he do any of that as an officer or a private citizen?

    Regardless, he never got charged for a crime, and you KNOW he pissed Nixon off enough that if he had done anything illegal, Nixon would have gotten him.

    I think our differences is more of a moral one. Some feel (yourself included) that what Kerry did was morally wrong. You wish it could be illegal, in fact you may even believe it is illegal by using some legal logic and theory. And you may be right — if it ever got to court.

    There are others (myself included) that don’t think Kerry did anything morally wrong or illegal — mainly because he wasn’t arrested and didn’t go to court. Remember, this was at a time when the Nixon Administration would have come down hard on anyone they felt was a threat — and they did. Nixon did not like that “pipsqueek Lieutenant” Kerry, and was active in finding a way to bring him down.

    Mmmm the Executive order of one Jimmie CAHter granting amnesty to anti-war protesters who were still in the military when they committed treason maybe?

    Mmmm… no.

    Nixon had every chance in 1971 to go after Kerry. He did, but not with the law. I am sure if it were available to him, he would have used it.

    Besides, there were thousands of other vets speaking out against the war, just none as visible as John Kerry. He stood out from all the rest.

    Not talking about Bush are we? We’re talking about Kerry. Keep your eyes on the ball, I know it’s hard when you you can’t see beyond those BDS Blinders but try M’kay?

    You can’t bring up Kerry “Flip-flop” without talking about Bush. Remember, the point in the last election was that Kerry “Flip-flops”, so how could you vote for someone who “flig-flops”?

    Like it or not, Kerry’s Flip-Flop is always going to be married to the 2004 Bush - Kerry election. The flip-flop was brought up here in this thread, and the association with Bush was right there. You cannot accuse one without expecting the other.

    But if your going to sling some mud, let’s talk about being one thing to one group and one to another..Hilldabeast is a champion at it,

    Not a big fan of Hillary either. I think she is too cozy with big business also. I didn’t care for her health care plan then and still don’t. You know it is going to be bad if the major health insurance companies are backing her.

    Hillary is many things to many people. She was a Goldwater Girl AND she was inspired by Martin Luther King. Funny because Goldwater opposed the 1964 Voting Rights Act — something that MLK was pushing for.

    I don’t dislike Hillary, she probably would be just fine as President, I just think that there are a lot better choices out there.

    Nope, but they use the same policies. Same with laboratory practices. I’ve worked in both small, large and huge hospitals, and I assure you that SOP is the same in all. Only the volume changes.

    You can’t compare the two. Newspapers are not laboratories. They are apples and oranges.

    While one newspaper operates one way, another larger one is going to operate another. I know radio ads are like this — they vary from network to network station to station. Heck, even within a family of stations the advertising policies change.

    Now, while radio advertising is NOT newpaper advertising, I am sure that they are pretty much the same. At least they are a better comparison to each other than a laboratory and a newspaper.

    For the past two days I had to rent a car. I paid the rate of $63.50 per day. It was short notice, I didn’t reserve the car. If I had reserved the car a week in advance, I would have only had to pay $37.50 — even though their stated rates for that car is $63.50.

    This is similar to what the NYT did with MoveOn. MoveOn bought an ad to run (at the paper’s discretion) sometime within a window of a week. Because they weren’t requesting a specific day, and because the paper still has to fill space, the paper offers discounts for those who aren’t worried about a specific date.

    Apparently Rudy Gulliani’s rebuttal ad is being paid for the same way. Sometime within a week, the ad will run, and he will have only paid $65k for it.

    That may be true, but that’s not the issue here. The issue is that they didn’t get standby conditions.

    The screech from moving the goal posts here just hurt my ears. Dammit, that is going to leave a mark, too.

    Whaddya mean they didn’t get standby “conditions”? They placed their ad, paid the standby rate, and waited.

    Do you know WHEN MoveOn placed the ad? Were their several versions of the ad placed so that when it was published it would appear timely? Do you think it is possible that the ad had been placed a week earlier and that you and others are jumping to conclusions?

    Or would you consider it just fine, fair and dandy if I were to get “standby” rates on an airline seat, yet still magically happen to get just the flight that I wanted to begin with?

    I fly all the time. I have been on standby flights, and sometimes I get the very next one out and other times I have to wait. It’s a crapshoot.

    With Aaron on his way down to live in Houston right now (driving a big yellow truck over the Rockies as I type this) I will no longer have him flying me down to work and back, so I will be back with the airlines or possibly the train.

    If anybody, anybody in the world can predict where a lawsuit may arise, it would be an attorney.

    Yes, and lawsuits arise every day that have no merit. You will almost always find an attorney that will tell you that you’ve got this case “locked down” and that you can almost start spending the settlement money now.

    Attorneys tend to tell their clients what they want to hear. If you go to your attorney and tell them you want to sue someone for being a total idiot, then they are going to try and find every argument they can to support your case.

    If I went to my attorney right now and told him I wanted to sue the Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler for someone publically calling me a name, I am sure that she could easily come up with several legal arguments to support a suit. (just to make you important, I would sue you for millions :em99: )

    Of course you would feel that I didn’t have a case for various reasons and you might hire an attorney to fight my suit. That attorney would come up with his own arguments and theories to counter my suit, possibly even filing a counter suit.

    The point is, for every legal position you can come up with, there is always going to be an attorney who will tell you that is the right course.

    Some attorneys have this knack of arguing one way in one suit, and exactly the other way in another suit on the same issue.

    (I have attorneys in my family. It doesn’t make them experts, let me tell you)

    Besides, Federal law is pretty damn clear on this particular issue, so it’s not like any trickery needs to be involved in the first place.

    Is it? I know a lot of federal laws that appear clear, but seem to mean something else for someone else depending on who they are. The Federal law was pretty clear on Libby, but apparently it means something else if the President says it does.

    Besides, can you show me the law that says the Federal Election Commission has jurisdiction in a case where a advocacy group places an ad that has nothing to do with any election or political candidate? There were two people mentioned in that ad. One was a sitting president ineligible to run for the office again. The other was a General Officer in the military also not running for office. The issue was a policy that is covered by the First Admendment on free speech.

    But Rudy Gulliani is running for office as a declared presidential candidate. How come Uncle Jimbo isn’t filing a complaint against Rudy for taking advantage of a deep discount?

    I did. And they did so after much hemming and hawing. Now tell me, please: If their original sale to MorOn.org was absolutely spotlessly innocent, then why on Earth would they allow themselves to be pressured into losing money on a second ad?

    Perhaps Gulliani didn’t know about the standby rates?

    This isn’t the first time MoveOn has placed full-paged ads you know. I am sure they are familiar with the rates everywhere — it is their business to know. I am sure that any major advertiser is also familiar with the standby rates at large papers.

    You assume that the NYT “loses” money with a standby ad. Sure, it isn’t the full price, but it is basically free money considering the have to fill the space with something. Again, I go back to my experience in radio — we start wtih dead air, and we fill it with content. Some of that content is our product, and the rest of the content is ads that pay for airing that product. Dead time costs us money, so we have to fill it with something — even if it is a PSA. So we need to have some standby spots to fill space that needs to be filled. Because standy ads don’t have a specific time to run, they usually cost less. Some ads are bought in blocks and they are aired for a specific number of times to fulfill the contract and they are usually charged at a lower rate.

    Standard CYA procedure. They know damn good and well that they were giving MorOn.org the family discount and that their feeble-minded cover story won’t hold water for long, so they just want it all to go away as quickly as possible.

    That’s the only reason why they’d do that. Otherwise, if their case was rock solid, they’d just tell Rudy that he could have a standby ad on standard terms too or he could fark off. No way in hell that they’d throw $100,000 out the window otherwise.

    It’s not the lie that gets you. It’s the cover-up.

    And this is where it all jumps the shark:

    It HAS to be a conspiracy because there is no other way to explain it.

    No, it is because you don’t want to consider that it any other way because it doesn’t fit into the box you’ve built for it.

    Works fine for me. I want as many people as possible to see MorOn.org calling a highly decorated general “traitor.” That’s a feature, not a bug.

    Well, actually, nobody ever called Petraeus a “traitor”, even though the Right has used that word so much now that it could mean just about anyone.

    Besides, MoveOn did use some weasel words where they said:

    General Petraeus is likely to become General Betray Us

    They didn’t actually say he did, they said he was likely to. And they gave the reasons why they felt that he would.

    It is an opinion, and just because someone is decorated and in the military doesn’t protect them from public opinions.

    You have no problem blasting several other Generals (Clark Zinni, and lately Joint Chief General Pace) Where is your “respect” for them?

    Would you be singing a different tune today if Petraeus had come out to say that he is recommending that all of the troops be redeployed? Would he then become fucknozzle non gratis? Would he then become a “traitor” because he dared to say something different than what President Bunnypants wanted him to say?

    Which brings me back to point out that Bush went through several Generals before he found one who would support his “surge” plan. His outgoing JC Head doesn’t agree with the policy and he is on his way out. Petraeus is probably hoping for a promotion for being the good sychophant.

    I notice that Colin Powell, the original Bush military front man and puppet is also against the surge.

    Then there is virtually every other independent government assessment that flys in the face of what Bush and Petraeus is saying. The surge did NOT succeed as advertised. It did NOT achieve its goals. It only was successful enough to fool the American people who wanted a change in tactics that resulted in a troop withdrawal into thinking that they were actually getting a troop withdrawal. Instead, they will get the exact same number of troops in nine months that they had nine months ago.

    With no difference on the ground.

    Bush intends on the same-o same-o for the next administration to deal with because he doesn’t have any other options he can use without admitting that he is a failure.

    And that is something Bush is not going to admit to.

  118. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Yes, yes, yes, I get it.

    Everybody except for MorOn.org and the NYT are liars, nothing to be seen here and it’s just because they’re so fantastically lucky that their “standby” ad happened to appear exactly on the best day possible for it.

    Well, actually, nobody ever called Petraeus a “traitor”, even though the Right has used that word so much now that it could mean just about anyone.

    Look into the relation between the words “betray” and “traitor.” You might be surprised at what you’ll find.

    It is an opinion, and just because someone is decorated and in the military doesn’t protect them from public opinions.

    Where the Hell did I say that they were? (If only certain people would apply that standard to certain treasonous malingerers from Taxachussetts, by the way).

    Here, you might want to put those asbestos coveralls on before you play with that strawman any further.

    MorOn.org can say any damn thing they like as their personal opinion, as can I, I just want to make sure that everybody hears them saying it, ’s all.

  119. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    Which brings me back to point out that Bush went through several Generals before he found one who would support his “surge” plan.

    As did Lincoln, and FDR, and Truman/Eisenhower, and Johnson….what’s wrong with finding a guy who can accomplish the mission?. C’mon Dave, if you knew anything about military history you’d know that Generals get relieved until one comes into place that can get the job done.

    Would you be singing a different tune today if Petraeus had come out to say that he is recommending that all of the troops be redeployed? Would he then become fucknozzle non gratis? Would he then become a “traitor” because he dared to say something different than what President Bunnypants wanted him to say?

    That tune would never get sung because Petraeus, still sees (like so many others) that this thing can still be won. That’s why he got the job, historically that’s why Generals like Lloyd Fredendall and George McClellan and Ambrose Burnside get bounced from top command…they don’t have the will to win. He’s no puppet to the President, he’s getting the job done…much to the lefts chagrine.

    You also said, regarding the “Betray Us” ad:

    They didn’t actually say he did, they said he was likely to. And they gave the reasons why they felt that he would.

    It’s now their main talking point DJ, I heard an interview with code pink head hag medea benjamin, and she called him Gen Betrayus twice….on purpose.

    The codepinkos/MoveOnUpYourAss.org brayers have nothing left in their arguments…they now have to resort to cheap insults…

    kinda like what I just did :em93:, although I can’t take credit for the moveOnUpYourAss name, I saw that on Pat Dollard’s site.

  120. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    I think our differences is more of a moral one. Some feel (yourself included) that what Kerry did was morally wrong. You wish it could be illegal, in fact you may even believe it is illegal by using some legal logic and theory. And you may be right — if it ever got to court.

    I don’t wish anything. I don’t feeeeell Anyhting Deej I’m a rightwing deathbeast!! BOO!
    LOL :em95:

    The UCMJ is quite clear on this issue. Read it.
    IF he was in fact still on the governments / military roles and he met with the NV in Paris without authorization he is guilty of a crime. Period. Stop.

    IF he was in fact still on the roles, Does he have the right to lead a protest in D.C., as he did? That’s a grey area, but the pointy edge of the sword in a case like that is sharp indeed, the Military could of charged him with conduct unbecoming an officer, negligence, deriliction, etc.

    Did he do any of that as an officer or a private citizen?

    There in lies the mystery….as I stated above technically his acts, if on the military roles, were punishable under the UCMJ regardless of ones status on active duty or on the inactive roles…. he could still be charged.

    Admit it… it gets a little gray as to JUST WHAT his actual military status was from 1971 to 1975. Does it not?

    He claimed to be released sometime in 75, by his own admission.. wheather he was a “private citizen” during the 4 years in between is hotly contested.

    I would imagine 30 some years later it’s a moot point, the statue of limitations would of long expired plus he has a “get out of jail free” courtsey of none other but a little peanut farmer from GA…on any actions he took back then, so therefore he let out the “honorable discharge” document dated in 1975.

    It’s interesting to me that J. Carter issued that E.O. Why? Didn’t he have enough on his plate back then? Oil Embargo out of control inflations, unemployment at astonomical levels ETC ?

    I digress…Why he was never brought up on charges Either Civil or under the UCMJ?…If rumors are true, and I am not saying they are, he was already out of the NAVY via mysterious circumstance, therefore the military could not touch him.

    You’d have to ask the players from back then…..and I doubt we’d ever get a straight answer.

    Personally (and yes morally)…I feel he should of had the book thrown at him, He sold out his fellow brothers in arms to the anti war crowds and he dishonored himself doing so. But as anyone knows Kerry came from money, there were /are ties to the Kennedy’s, and to the power familes of MA.

    And before you accuse me of claiming a vast left wing Conspiracy? I doubt it…I see it as business as always in the swamp called D.C.

    Which leads me back to my orignal stance..his voting record, the swirl of allegations his own actions back then, and his shady half truths all added up to in my ledgers as …the man was not and is not fit to be president.

  121. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    The elephant in the room is the fact that “dissent” as practiced by MoveOn.dipshit in this case left the confines of simple dissent and turned into a public urination on a member of our millitary. People such as the general have many duties and responsibilities that are not matched by the wee willy winkie holders in groups such as MoveOn.dipshit, and are also bound by a code of conduct that prevents them from such political bombthrowing themselves.

    I prefer it when the traitors among us go abroad and give blowjobs to foreign dictators rather than pissing all over those charged with maintaining their safety just because they can’t get their way. This is the same kind of person who would get their haircuts at the local “Whiskey and Scissors”. Some of them were born stupid, but those who willingly chose it should be met at every turn.

  122. Mike M Comment by Mike M

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    It seems through some apparent tragic oversight, John Kerry has allowed the statute of limitations for defamation suits to lapse in the last possible venue where it could be heard (ironically, Massachusetts). This, despite his threat to sue the pants off any TV station having the audacity to run a Swift Boat ad. Now he’ll never be able to gain vindication by bringing those lying Swift Boaters to court where them lyin’ liars’ libelous lies would be exposed for the world to see (along with his full and complete military records).

    Good news for John though! All isn’t lost. Beldar has graciously offered Kerry the opportunity to sue him. He’s also offered to waive any statute of limitation defense, pay all filing fees and even pay to have the Winter Soldier’s law license reinstated.

  123. maxxpig Comment by maxxpig

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    My mother is dead. Has been for years. She grew up during the depression and raised 6 kids in spite of a drunkard for a husband. When she walked this earth she had more starch than a chinese laundry and would have laughed in your face, as her hand closed slowly around your neck.
    I’d watch out for things going bump in the night, if I were you.

  124. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    They give us a lot to live up to, don’t they, maxxpig? Your mom, my dad…….all raised during the depression. They had nothing and gave us everything.

  125. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    .all raised during the depression. They had nothing and gave us everything.

    “All this and WWII” ,,force multiplies the gift.

  126. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Yeah, pushing it towards a buck fitty.

    Well, I have very little to add since all of the fine LC’s here have stolen my thunder, and vastly more eloquently than I ever could have. Besides, I’m a little distracted today by some great news.

    I will however respond to this

    How the fuck can I not be arrogant when talking to an obnoxious old fool who wouldn’t know Richard the Lionheart from a Pop Tart & is convinced his politics makes him a badass?

    Such a condescending little choad. I know Richard the Lionhearted very well thank you, being such an “old fool” I knew him personally as a matter of a fact. BTW, he said to tell you to piss off and stop claiming to be an Englishman, you’re defiling the blood line.

    I also now Pop Tarts.

    As to being a bad ass, well compared to men it has been my immense honor to serve with, not so much. In fact I see myself as some what of a harmless little fuzz ball. There are quiet a few people walking around (and a few not) who would lay a wager on that, but it had nothing to do with my politics.

    Muzzy, you are a simpering fool, and a socialist haji jizz guzzler, but I have to admit you can hook and jab with the best of em. Well, except for BC, he just wipes the floor with your wussy ass. :em99:

  127. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Damn spam filter! Sire, time to flog Askimet!

  128. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Yeah, pushing it towards a buck fitty.

    Well, I have very little to add since all of the fine LC’s here have stolen my thunder, and vastly more eloquently than I ever could have. Besides, I’m a little distracted today by some great news.

    I will however respond to this

    How the fuck can I not be arrogant when talking to an obnoxious old fool who wouldn’t know Richard the Lionheart from a Pop Tart & is convinced his politics makes him a badass?

    Such a condescending little choad. I know Richard the Lionhearted very well thank you, being such an “old fool” I knew him personally as a matter of a fact. BTW, he said to tell you to piss off and stop claiming to be an Englishman, you’re defiling the blood line.

    I also know Pop Tarts.

    As to being a bad ass, well compared to men it has been my immense honor to serve with, not so much. In fact I see myself as some what of a harmless little fuzz ball. There are quiet a few people walking around (and a few not) who would lay a wager on that, but it had nothing to do with my politics.

    Muzzy, you are a simpering fool, and a socialist haji jizz guzzler, but I have to admit you can hook and jab with the best of em. Well, except for BC, he just wipes the floor with your wussy ass. :em99:

  129. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    What is the great news, crunchie? A far cry from very predictable trolls seeking to just stir up shit. So what is going on? You celebratin’?

  130. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    Crunch, MKH’s HamNation from Ground Zero is up now.

    She’s got some Truther™ Trolls.

    I never made it - work crisis kept me away :cry: :em98:

    What’s the great news? No discharge in the pee? ;-)

  131. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    :em99: :em99:

  132. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    :em99: Rad, and yes, no discharge in the pee. And thanks for the MKH *drool* link. Will have to study that in detail later.

    And since you and Caveman asked, it has to do with a certain crumb crunhie and the Crucible at Parris Island. As in as of 0800 today he came off of the Crucible and was given his Eagle Globe and Anchor.

  133. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    And since you and Caveman asked, it has to do with a certain crumb crunhie and the Crucible at Parris Island. As in as of 0800 today he came off of the Crucible and was given his Eagle Globe and Anchor

    Cool. I promise not to shoot into the air and uuuuulate. :lol:

  134. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    Congrats Crunchie! :em69:

    I’ll hoist a few in his honor and take a haji-driven cab home! :em94:

  135. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Cool. I promise not to shoot into the air and uuuuulate.

    No, please do BiW! Just aim towards Mecca *spit*

    I’ll hoist a few in his honor and take a haji-driven cab home!

    Right there with ya Rad! :em94: Except for the Haji taxi that is. I ain’t that insane!

  136. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    She’s got even better trolls at Townhall

    Including this rapid fire Godwinnig waste of DNA called Scorpiototally. :em72: :roll:

    Let them go about their business admiring the Emporer’s New Clothes, while we do our best to EXPOSE the myth’s (like a 757 hit the Pentagon)and win back our country!…These guys are lost, and they don’t want to be saved, they like being told when and what to do. They were born however far too late, they would have fit better in the 30’s inside Germany.

  137. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    No, please do BiW! Just aim towards Mecca *spit*

    Uhh, Crunchie, I’ll need something bigger. Like and ICBM. Float a brother a loan?

  138. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Like and ICBM. Float a brother a loan?

    Sure thing, got an extra one in the gun safe, next to the .300 WinMag. FedEx alright?

  139. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    Oh you gotta do the hajji cab. All while he’s driving he’s mourning the 72 raisins he won’t get. Instead he knows he’s stuck with the same tent wearing goat/woman combo upon which his daddy forced him to procreate.

    And to finish him off I might just happen to leave a pound of bacon under his seat! :twisted:

  140. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    Aww, Hell. Just shoot off with a love note from me written on it, will ya?

  141. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    Crunchie sez proudly:

    And since you and Caveman asked, it has to do with a certain crumb crunhie and the Crucible at Parris Island. As in as of 0800 today he came off of the Crucible and was given his Eagle Globe and Anchor.

    Out- Friggin- Standing sir, I’ll sing a chorus of the Marine Hymn as I smoke a fat ‘ol cigar in his honor. Pass along how proud and grateful I am please….

  142. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Rad :em99:

    BiW, done Sir, watch for the mushroom cloud on Fox. :em93:

    Jaybear, thank you kind Sir, I most certainly will!

  143. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    BiW, done Sir, watch for the mushroom cloud on Fox.

    Promises promises

  144. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Be a pleasure, Crunchie.

  145. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Promises promises

    “The check is in the mail”, “I’ll still respect you in the morning”, and “Of course I won’t cum in your mouth”. You mean like those BiW?

  146. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    now why don’t you go and buy that Marine a beer…..or two.

    or a dozen :em94:

    I will Caveman, next week when I see him. And it’ll be on you, I’ll send you the bill. :em93:

  147. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    *sporting my best angelic look*
    I have NO idea what you’re talking about, crunchie.

  148. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    :em99:

  149. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    woot! We hit a buck fitty!

  150. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    Wow Crunchie, all growed up, that Christmas tree is gonna have some different toys under it nowadays!

    Buy him a beer if ya gotta,
    But,
    If ya’ll show up in this’ hood, we’d be so proud to break out a couple jars of our garage brewed downstairs domestic. , get ya where you’ll find y’self, or someone will.

    You n Bangy gotta be burstin’.
    ‘Got any button left on y’shirt?

  151. Beth* A. Comment by Beth* A.

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    Congratulations to your son, Crunchie. Also to the proud Dad! :em69:

    I’ve a friend who’s a new D.I. at Parris Island this summer; hmm, wonder if perhaps he and Crunchie Jr. got to, er…what would you call it? - meet?

  152. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Cheapshot

    You n Bangy gotta be burstin’.
    ‘Got any button left on y’shirt?

    Yep, and nope.

    If ya’ll show up in this’ hood, we’d be so proud to break out a couple jars of our garage brewed downstairs domestic. , get ya where you’ll find y’self, or someone will.

    We just might have to do something about that. :em93:

    I’ve a friend who’s a new D.I. at Parris Island this summer; hmm, wonder if perhaps he and Crunchie Jr. got to, er…what would you call it? - meet?

    Stranger things have happened Beth. What Battalion is he assigned to?

  153. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Crunchie!

    A big OOO-Rah to Crunchie, Jr. for me!

  154. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Thank you Skyechild, I’ll pass it on to him :em69:

  155. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Look into the relation between the words “betray” and “traitor.” You might be surprised at what you’ll find.

    Yet the Right, and many people here have absolutely no problem calling EVERY Liberal a traitor or its equivilent whenever you can.

    I don’t know where Petraeus “betrayed” us. I think he was following a script laid down to him by the Administration. I guess you could call it “following orders”, but it still doesn’t mean that what he was saying isn’t a lie.

    It is rather telling that the only real place you can get the news these days is the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. Toward the end of the show, he really nails how Petraeus has been following the Bush script. Watch it. You will at least get a laugh out of it.

  156. maxxpig Comment by maxxpig

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    Crunchie
    Give my best to Crunchie Jr.
    That is very cool!

  157. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    My most sincere congratualtions to your son Crunch…he is truly a man a cut above the rest.

    Now remember…tell him call 1-800-THE-NAVY…We’ll pick him up and give him a ride TO GO BREAK SHIT AND KILL PEOPLE …. :em94:

  158. JanetMae Comment by JanetMae

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    I don’t know where Petraeus “betrayed” us. I think he was following a script laid down to him by the Administration. I guess you could call it “following orders”, but it still doesn’t mean that what he was saying isn’t a lie.

    Then prove he lied, or acknowledge that he has been slandered by the Moron.org ad. Even if he was, “following a script,” that is not evidence that he what he said wasn’t factual. Do you honestly believe that it was fair of your liberal Democrat friends to dismiss what Petraeus said before he even got a chance to say it?

    Yes, freedom of speech clearly is reserved only for liberals. That is quite clearly what many liberals believe.

    Any time a Democrat is caught doing something wrong, the defense is always, “No! Look over there! Republicans do it too!”

    This crap is getting really boring, DJ. A man has been slandered based on an UNFOUNDED assumption that he is biased and not telling the truth. That’s bullshit. If it was done to one of the liberal Democrats, you’d be having a hissy fit.