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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » The Beginning Of The End
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Here’s more proof that the 2008 Silly Season is a train-wreck already in progress for the GOP. Congress and Weeniedick W, have approval ratings in the toilet, notably the congressional approvals are the lowest in decades. The conservative base is ready to abandon the GOP ship in droves, and the best the minority party in congress can do is this?

GOP senators offer new timeline for Iraq

A small group of Republicans facing election fights next year have rallied around war legislation they think could unite the GOP: Call for an end to U.S. combat in Iraq, but wait until President Bush is almost out of office.
[Emph Mine]

This sounds eerily like Voinobitch is already preparing a position of surrender to a Hillary Whitehouse.

The Democrats on Friday deemed the legislation a nonstarter, and underscored the difficulty Congress has in striking a bipartisan compromise on the war. What attracts Democrats has repelled Republicans and vice versa, making it impossible so far to find a middle ground.

It’s pretty simple you dim-witted DCites. Call Their Bluff. Propose an immediate cessation of US hostilities and an immediate drawn-down of troops and equipment and let the bastards stand on their votes. But like a dog returning to it’s own vomit, they stay in character with fingers in the wind, believing the Dead Stream Media, BowelMovementOn, etc. that Americans are losing interest in winning the WoT.

“I don’t support it at all,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. “It doesn’t do anything.”

Harry I’m A Good Treatment For Insomnia™ Reid couldn’t support anything even if equipped with a titanium jock strap. You gotta’ have a pair to support.

The proposal, by Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, would require that Bush change the mission of U.S. troops from combat to primarily support roles, such as training Iraqi security forces and protecting U.S. infrastructure in Iraq. His legislation would set a goal of completing such a mission transition within 15 months.

Fucking Brilliant !!! We’ll stay there and take casualties, but we just won’t shoot back. Only a mouth-breathing RINO like BoyBitch could come up with a surrender plan that INCREASES our casualties.

If enacted immediately, that timeline would not kick in until Bush’s last couple weeks in office.

I suppose the plebian masses aren’t supposed to recognize the transparency of this legislative turd. Let’s pass it, make the DummieUnderground and Kostards giddy about ‘bipartisan’ cooperation to surrender, but wait until after the elections are over for the shit to hit the fan in the sandbox or a mushroom cloud over a western city.

“That’s very courageous,” Reid, D-Nev., quipped when a reporter asked him Friday about the proposal.

Righhhht…About as courageous as a three-year old with piss dripping down his legs after a scary monster jumped out of his bedroom closet.

Co-sponsors of the bill include Sen. Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Elizabeth Dole of North Carolina and Norm Coleman of Minnesota. Of the sponsors, only Voinovich is not up for re-election in 2008.

In response to Reid’s rejection, a Voinovich spokesman said the senator “will continue to work for a bipartisan, nonpolitical compromise so our nation finally speaks with one voice.”

Likewise, Alexander said the country is ready for a consensus on the war.

The consensus is Americans recognize and understand that the WoT is the most critical issue of our age. We’re smart enough (outside the loony-left) to understand this will be a protracted struggle against a determined and patient enemy, sworn to eradicate our way of life and incapable of placation.

“It is inexcusable for the Senate to keep lecturing Baghdad about being in a political stalemate when we continue to be stuck in our own political stalemate on Iraq,” he said in an e-mailed statement Friday.

No, it’s inexcusable that the congress doesn’t understand the concept of separation of powers, duties and responsibilities of the C-in-C.

Their efforts come as the Senate wraps up debate on a $672 billion defense policy bill that would authorize more than a half trillion dollars in annual defense spending and $150 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, including $23 billion added for Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles.

The bill, on track to pass on Monday, also would make it easier for Iraqi refugees to apply for U.S. visas. An amendment by Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., adopted on Thursday would provide 5,000 special immigrant visas each year for five years; the new visas would be given to Iraqis who fear retribution because they worked for the U.S. government in Iraq.

Senate Democrats tried to attach legislation ordering an end to combat, but repeatedly failed to muster the 60 votes needed to overcome parliamentary hurdles.

Bullshit flag on the play and loss of down. They bugger-all know good and well, they can’t just pull the plug and survive an irate electorate. Parliamentary hurdles my ass. It’s the Most Ethical Evah™ Congress Fan Dance.

Sen. Carl Levin, the Democratic chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said he worked closely with Voinovich until late Thursday in the hopes of striking a compromise proposal. Levin wants to set the goal in nine months, but acknowledges he doesn’t have the votes to pass it.

After Voinovich suggested extending the goal to 15 months, Democratic support dissipated, said Levin, D-Mich.

“To try to put this off until after the election, rather than a reasonable period of completion, I believe would be to unnecessarily introduce a political element to what is a bipartisan effort,” he said.

Levin resorting to the “Hide In Plain Sight” maneuver.

Voinovich, Alexander and Coleman have been outspoken critics of Bush’s war strategy, citing voter frustration with what they say seems to be an open-ended military commitment in Iraq. Coleman in particular has become a popular political target by anti-war groups hoping to replace him with a Democratic candidate willing to demand troop withdrawals.

Proving yet again the party has been hijacked by Soros and Company.

But each of the GOP senators has rejected Democratic legislation that includes a timetable for troop withdrawals, contending they do not want to tie the hands of military generals and a wartime president.

All the while shitting their Depends, and looking for a way out the doesn’t require intestinal fortitude.

While the defense policy bill approves war spending for next year, it does not guarantee it; Bush will have to wait for Congress to pass a separate appropriations bill that actually transfers money to the military’s coffers.

Democratic leaders say the recent passage of a stopgap spending bill that funds the Pentagon at 2007 levels gives the military enough money to keep the war going for a few more months. A spending bill to pay for combat through next September might not be passed until early next year, officials said.

While within their constitutional duties, I doubt the founders would view defunding a war, duly authorized and approved by congress itself, against the needs of a nation at war, as less than High Treason.

Why the title of this screed? It’s simple. A sure-fire, gurandamnteed way to make next year’s election a blowout for the DemCong is to play footsie with the other side of the aisle. The electorate won’t tolerate a bickering, mud-sling fest at the ballot box or flip-flopping RINOs and Shillary will slide in by default. If this childish move is indicative of the broad GOP strategy it is indeed the END of the party.

In order to WIN this one, we MUST dump the GOP as a derelict wreck and run candidates on Reagan-Conservative core values. Clearly defined as limited government, lower taxes, individual responsibility, strong national security and a clear commitment to keep the terrorists at bay at all costs. That’s the winning ticket, period. The End.

26 Responses to “The Beginning Of The End”
  1. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    and run candidates on Reagan-Conservative core values. Clearly defined as limited government, lower taxes, individual responsibility, strong national security and a clear commitment to keep the terrorists at bay at all costs. That’s the winning ticket, period. The End.

    Fred!

    And FOIST!

  2. BigDogg Comment by BigDogg

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    LOL @ Crunchie.

    As far as I’m concerned, the GOP is dead. The “conservative base” of the GOP (which is probably 80% or more of the party) needs to take its toys and go find its own sandbox … start the Conservative American Party, or something like that.

  3. Trooper THX1138 Comment by Trooper THX1138

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    Co-sponsors of the bill include Sen. Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Elizabeth Dole of North Carolina and Norm Coleman of Minnesota.

    Liddy?! She co-sponsored this POS masking itself as legislation? Tell me this was just a one-time stand, and I’ll forgive it. But if you’re sticking with that hippie-surrender-butt boy, we’ll be needing a divorce.

    Here’s an idea for a non-political, bipartisan compromise: GET OUT OF THE FUCKING WAY AND LET OUR MILITARY WIN!!! :em71: :em96: :em08:

    Morons. Must have missed the part in constitutional laws where it explains how we have ONE Commander-in-Chief, not 535. 538 if you count the delegates from DC, PR, and GU.

    President is in charge of prosecuting the war, not *spit* Congress *spit* or the courts.

    BTW, BigDogg there is a strong conservative third party out there: Constitution Party. Check them out, see if you agree with them or not. At least on social issues, they’re about spot on. As to the war, well, I haven’t seen a fully coherent position form. Some think of it as yet another “foreign entanglement” like NAFTA, some think “Well, we’re there now, we need to keep the peace until the Iraqis can do it without us”, and some are for expanding the War on Islamofascism into other theaters. I’m in group three.

  4. Unregistered Comment by mkfreeberg

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    You want to call some bluffs, Your Majesty? You really want to call some bluffs that will make a huge difference? Here, I got a great idea for a bluff that desperately needs to be called…Sen. Reid’s comments have seriously pissed me off this time. The country cannot survive much longer without calling this. Laying this out on the table, may very well save the Republic long term, and a lot of lives in the short term.

    Sense of Congress

    It is the Sense of Congress that:

    a. The United States military, like the military of any other sovereign nation, has a specific purpose that shall be subordinate to none other, and
    b. The purpose of the U.S. military, to paraphrase former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, is to inflict state-sponsored violence. Specifically:
    (i) To kill people;
    (ii) To blow things up;
    (iii) To achieve and maintain a perpetual state of optimum readiness to achieve (i) and (ii).
    c. While the military may from time to time be deployed to accomplish other, marginal objectives, the word “marginal” is key in describing those other objectives. A military dedicated to goals and operations outside of what’s defined in (b), is a useless military indeed, and unworthy of the service of the United States.

    End of proposed legislation.

    There. Show me a dozen legislators voting Nay on that sucker, and I’ll show you a dozen traitors. And I’m sure the good Sen. Reid is gonna be in there somewhere.

    We can debate endlessly on whether this-or-that mission supports the “interests” of the country, but this nonsense about the military being a factory for cheap college diplomas, or a meals-on-wheels, has got to come to a screeching halt or else there is no hope.

    This would not pass, not even close. But when people start opining against it, it’ll make “Spot The Traitor” so much easier to play, especially for those who have (somehow?) not successfully spotted one thus far. And I got a feel that the presidential candidate who endorses it, would win in a landslide.

  5. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    A small group of Republicans facing election fights next year have rallied around war legislation they think could unite the GOP: Call for an end to U.S. combat in Iraq,

    Yeah, because that is the reason that us actual CONSERVATIVES are about as interested in the GOP these days as a recurring case of the clap: They’re not surrendering quickly enough!

    It has absolutely NOTHING to do with their pandering to illegal immigrants, their pathological case of fwench indecisiveness on fighting the war, their spending worse than a whole fucking fleet of drunken sailors (they’re actually worse than Klintoon on spending and expansion of government), none of all that…

    Oh no, the reason that CONSERVATIVES are leaving the Stupid Party like liberals fleeing a free market is that they’re not surrendering quickly enough on the one issue they have left going for them.

    FUCK THE GOP.

    FUCK THEM, THEIR SPOUSES, THEIR ILLEGITIMATE CHILDREN AND ANY SORRY ASS SON OF A SYPHILITIC BITCH EXPECTING ME TO EVER VOTE FOR THEM AGAIN.

    And that’s putting it mildly. You wouldn’t WANT me to express how I REALLY feel.

    Fuckheads. Useless, too fucking worthless to even waste a bullet on, so bereft of value to the planet that I wouldn’t ejaculate on them if their hair was on fire, pissant, traitor, corrupt, lying, thieving, cocksucking bastards.

    Go to Hell, and give my apologies to Satan for sending you there. Even he doesn’t deserve your company.

  6. Unregistered Comment by Tennessee Budd

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    Email sent to Lamar!
    I’d already informed him that I would never again vote for him, after they tried to sneak through the amnesty program, but it never hurts to remind the bastards (apologies to all illegitimate children for the comparison).

  7. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    C’mon Sire, stop holding back, tell us how you really feel. :em99:

  8. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Upset? Well then THIS should warm your cockles (whatever the hell those are…):

    Democrats know the war can’t end

    THE Democratic presidential debate in New Hampshire on Wednesday was remarkable
    in that it revealed a truth that the major Democratic candidates would rather not talk about.

    While Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are demanding that President Bush set a timetable for bringing the American troops home from Iraq by January 2009, they refused to commit themselves to any timetable should they become president.

    Tim Russert of NBC asked Obama: “Will you pledge that by January 2013, the end of your first term more than five years from now, there will be no U.S. troops in Iraq?”

    Obama replied: “I think it’s hard to project four years from now, and I think it would be irresponsible. . . . I believe that we should have all our troops out by 2013, but I don’t want to make promises not knowing what the situation’s going to be three or four years out.”

    I know this is a Republican opinion piece, but I was looking for the actual transcipt of the debate answers on this and I couldn’t find it easily. But you get the gist.

    Personally, I don’t think we are going to have all of our troops out of there in my lifetime. I think that there is always going to be some presence in Iraq to project power elsewhere in the region if needed. Iraq makes the perfect sense for that eventuality.

    But keeping the current strength of troops there indefinately, and acting as the security forces for Iraq? I don’t see it, and it isn’t what most people want.

    Kucinich, probably the most honest of the candidates, with absolutely zero chance of ever winning the nomination let alone the big prize, obviously doesn’t see the bigger picture involved here. He would pull everyone out immediately. (I said he was honest, not wize)

    Dodd and Richardson would start pulling us out in three months, but they don’t actually say everyone would be out by 2013.

    You all might have missed the debate last Wednesday — I did too, but I was drugged out of my mind, so I had an excuse. But a lot of people DID watch it and they have been rending garments and gnashing teeth ever since.

    Congress’s ratings are so low because people expected the Democrats to start winding the war down. They have failed miserably. Hense, low ratings.

    We never should have gotten into this predicament in the first place, but we are there now. We should be working to reduce our need to be there.

    What I find interesting is that if this “surge” was working, then why wasn’t this number of troops (and more) used from the very beginning? We probably would have been outta there by now.

  9. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    What I find interesting is that if this “surge” was working, then why wasn’t this number of troops (and more) used from the very beginning? We probably would have been outta there by now.

    Mark the date & time. I actually agree with Dave on this.

    Dave, that’s the first sensible thing you’ve said in a long time.

    In fact, you’ll find that a lot (if not all) of us were pissed off that Bush didn’t immediately reopen “major combat operations” with the first detonation of an IED.

    And I’ll tell you this much: if the Dems were to actually push W into sending more troops, with an eye towards actually winning, thus bringing our boys home sooner, they’d find a lot more resonance with the American people.

  10. ACLPoo Comment by ACLPoo

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    I think the Senate is assuming everything’s going to turn to gold when Dubya is out of office. They can of course use his tenure as Prez to blame everything that goes wrong for our next President’s term or even longer. I wonder who they will blame, however, when they decide to pull the troops out, Al Qaeda or Iran’s RevGuard takes over several Iraqi provinces, and the occcasional airstrike just ain’t gonna cut it.
    Bin Laden’s head in a basket doesn’t come close to solving this problem. The only hope we could have is that we can rely on Iranian sanctions and some European friends for said occasional airstrikes. My guess is we’ll have our hands full with Russia in the next couple of terms.
    The next Prez is gonna have his/her hands full.

  11. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

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    Lots of yelling and screaming about RINOs, treasonous Dems, etc. VOTE PEOPLE! Not only in the general, but in the primaries. Find people in the party who really do stand for what we believe, and VOTE! Why did so many people sit at home? To “teach the party a lesson”. Apparently, they heard the lesson wrong. We need to clarify the intent here. Write, email, and make it CLEAR what we want. The Stupids thought that the reason so many libs got in is that that is what the people wanted. They didn’t catch the lesson that we wanted them to wake up and save us.

  12. ohio right wing nut Comment by ohio right wing nut

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    I GOTTA MOVE OUT OF THIS FUCKING STATE :em98: :em98:

  13. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Dave, that’s the first sensible thing you’ve said in a long time.

    It’s the drugs, Spats, the drugs. No wonder Rush Limbaugh says the things he does…. :em99:

    Seriously? This is something that us Liberals talked about from the very beginning. It is something that Petraeus talked about in the beginning, since he pretty much wrote the book on pacifying a population.

    It was also something General Zinny talked about at the beginning — he said we would need at least 500k troops to do this whole thing properly.

    Bush and Rumsfeld felt that they could get by on the cheap.

    Obviously, they were wrong.

    And I’ll tell you this much: if the Dems were to actually push W into sending more troops, with an eye towards actually winning, thus bringing our boys home sooner, they’d find a lot more resonance with the American people.

    I suspect that both Clinton AND Obama both think the easiest way out of Iraq is to INCREASE the number of troops there for the time being. Unfortunately, where are they going to get those troops? It isn’t like there are a lot of troops just hanging out somewhere.

    Personally, I would amass as many troops as I could along the borders of Iraq. Let the Iraqis deal with what goes on internally — just keep outside influence out, and be there in case a strike force is needed.

    But hey, I am no military expert. I am just a guy on Oxycontin at the moment.

    This shit should be illegal.

  14. Unregistered Comment by LC Croaker

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    Meanwhile, Massachusetts has just abolished the secret ballot for union organization.

  15. Unregistered Comment by Draven32

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    Bin Laden’s head in a basket doesn’t come close to solving this problem.

    Bin Laden’s head on a PIKE in front of the White House might help more.

    My guess is we’ll have our hands full with Russia in the next couple of terms.

    Russia? Bhahahahahaha… you mean the country that has been buzzing around a bunch of 30 year old bombers to convince everyone they are still in the game?

    Personally, I would amass as many troops as I could along the borders of Iraq. Let the Iraqis deal with what goes on internally — just keep outside influence out, and be there in case a strike force is needed.

    Considering that the terrorists in Iraq are still primarily foreign, it might work.

  16. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Spats and DJ-

    Congress’s ratings are so low because people expected the Democrats to start winding the war down. They have failed miserably. Hense, low ratings.

    That’s patent bullshit. If you look at the honest polls, roughly 75% of the populace wants us to withdraw from Iraq in a stable situation, not ripe for an easy Iranian backed toppling of the fledgling government following a cut and run strategy.

    The Congressional approval ratings are more reflective of their lack of any legislative measures beyond business as usual, ear-marking of routine duties and BDS related mud-slinging. If you buy into the rating because we haven’t pulled out fast enough you’re drinking MoveOn’s Kool-Aid.

  17. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    Was that a pig that just flew by?:

    UN: We have criticized Israel unfairly

  18. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    That’s patent bullshit. If you look at the honest polls, roughly 75% of the populace wants us to withdraw from Iraq in a stable situation, not ripe for an easy Iranian backed toppling of the fledgling government following a cut and run strategy.

    But they wanted Congress to do something to push this one-trick pony we have in the White House to do something different than the same mediocre thing that HASN’T been working.

    The Iraqi government isn’t going to stand up themselves as long as we are there doing the heavy lifting. They’ve been proving that. Of course, every time they start to decide something for themselves, we come along and put them back in their place.

    The roughly 75 percent does want a stable situation in Iraq, but most feel that the only way it can stabalize is with us out of the way, and making the Iraqis stand up for themselves.

    It isn’t working the current way, it’s just keeping things at the status quo.

    Move our troops to the border areas to prevent unwanted people from entering the country. Move out of the population areas and let Iraqi forces and their government stabalize everything.

    Send all of the foreign contractors home. ALL of them. If there is a job that needs to be done, let an Iraqi do it. Maybe when things stabalize more, some of the skilled Iraqi labor that fled to neighboring countries will want to return.

    Of course, the media in this country hasn’t done much talking about the fact that roughly one-tenth of Iraq’s pre-war population has fled the country, and another tenth has been forcibly displaced and too poor to leave the country.

    The ones who could afford to leave tended to be the doctors, lawyers, and skilled tradesmen — the backbone of any society.

    I know that FOX News or any of the other ‘news media’ bother to mention this brain-drain that has been going on since the beginning of our occupation of Iraq. It also doesn’t talk about the potential problems this poses to the rest of the region.

    These people would love to return home — if the sectarian violence went away, and just as important, that there were jobs they can come back to.

    We also need to drop our attempts to take over the oil supply and production in Iraq. You will try to say that this whole exercise had absolutely nothing to do with oil, but the evidence to the contrary is more than overwhelming.

    Pakistan is and was every bit and even more dangerous than Saddam’s Iraq could ever dream of being. The only difference is that Iraq has a lot of oil and Pakistan doesn’t.

    It is very telling that our first concern was not with the civilians of Iraq, but the safeguarding of the oil production areas.

    We are also pushing hard for the Iraqi Parliament to pass laws giving a handful of oil companies complete control over supply, production, and profits of the oil. These ‘leases’ were decided in Washington prior to our invasion.

    Most people want stability in the region. The problem is, George Bush and his merry band of bunglers has made the region more unstable than ever. Ironically, we have made Iran more powerful than ever, and have created even more discord with the other countries in the region. We have burdened neighboring countries with hundreds of thousands or Iraqi refugees — much like the Palestinian refugees in the late 1940s. There are MORE terrorists today than there were prior to the Bush War on Terror. Perhaps that was his goal all along — create more terrorists so that you can have a perpetual war against them. Kinda like a renewable resource.

    We are spending hundreds of billions of dollars on this war that we are borrowing from China and the Saudis. Sooner or later that bill will come due, and there are some who are arguing that day has already come.

    We are borrowing money that our children will have to pay back, and we just raised the public-debt ceiling again last week, to a whopping $9.815 trillion. When Bush squeezed into office, the debt ceiling was “only” $5.95 trillion. He is well on his way to actually doubling the debt ceiling by the time he leaves office.

    Like I’ve said here in the past, whenever someone here tries to tell me how great the economy is going: “Give me a credit card with three or four trillion dollars on it and I will show you a good time also”.

    Okay, I have wandered off the reservation here, I know. Maybe I should lay back and rest a while.

  19. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    We also need to drop our attempts to take over the oil supply and production in Iraq.

    If we’re taking over, why must we be forced to bid against the world’s other refiners at Basrah?

    It’s ours, they should be paying us, not the Iraqi’s. /sarcasm.

  20. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    DJ- I’ll concede with no disagreement whatsoever that mistakes have been made and spending is out of control. The foreign debt is indeed a piper that needs to be paid sooner or later.

    I think you’re deducing a conclusion incorrectly on the meaning of the statistics, to imply that the 75% mean we should cut and run….I still call bullshit. As to creating more terrorists, that’s another straw man argument. Global terrorism has grown exponentially since the early 70’s. The issue has been largely ignored by the US and other western government, choosing to treat a de facto state of war as a criminal matter. 9/11/2001 changed that dynamic forever, as the terrorists clearly demonstrated their ability to commit mass murder had developed beyond any previous estimates. Necessitating a pro-active strategy to stop them.

    Now this one-

    Most people want stability in the region. The problem is, George Bush and his merry band of bunglers has made the region more unstable than ever. Ironically, we have made Iran more powerful than ever, and have created even more discord with the other countries in the region. We have burdened neighboring countries with hundreds of thousands or Iraqi refugees

    Everyone wants stability in the region or everywhere for that matter. The issue is the left’s ‘measure’ of stability. The region might have been characterized as more stable with Saddam in place, but that ignores the atrocities committed to his own people and propensity to attack his neighbors, ignoring endless UN sanctions.

    The rest of your cut and paste talking points, re: taking over oil supply and production, refugees etc. I’ll ignore.

    You know this is about oil. But not for the direct benefit of eevil oil companies. Like it or not our economy, along with the rest of industrialized world is dependent on oil. The left has consistently opposed drilling on our own soil, along with building new production capacity. You can’t have your cake and eat it you know. I find it hard to believe you even spewed that out again. We could’ve taken Kuwait’s oil and most of Iraq during GW1 but we didn’t. There are no Exxon Mobil signs that I’ve seen in Iraq and we’ve certainly had enough time for a takeover haven’t we? If the liberal left doesn’t like the dirty work needed to assure a steady supply of our economic life-blood, they damn well better start permitting domestic energy production and maximum capacity expansion…oh sorry you can’t risk losing the enviro-loon campaign contributions can you?

    Hundreds of thousands of refugees, eh? Another cut and paste meme, right out of the Slimes, et al. No reputable source has come up with this number. Common sense tells you if that were happening the neighboring countries harboring the hundreds of thousands of refugees would be screaming at the UN for funds, but that’s not happening either is it?

    As to Iran, you can thank Jimmah Cartuh for that one. The increasingly dangerous situation within Iran is directly a result of that. History started well before W took office, you just can’t tell listening to the left.

  21. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    If we’re taking over, why must we be forced to bid against the world’s other refiners at Basrah?

    It’s ours, they should be paying us, not the Iraqi’s. /sarcasm.

    Well, so far we haven’t been successful in convincing the Iraqis to hand it over yet. But it isn’t for a lack of pressuring.

    I think you’re deducing a conclusion incorrectly on the meaning of the statistics, to imply that the 75% mean we should cut and run….I still call bullshit.

    I am not saying that. YOU are the one assuming that I am saying that. I thought I was being fairly clear (in a drug-induced way) when I said we needed to redeploy to the borders of Iraq and let the Iraqis sort things out for themselves. We would keep unwanted ‘guests’ out, and be of assistance if and when called on for help.

    But this is something the IRAQIS need to step up and deal with. They need to take some ownership in their future. We just need to get out of the way.

    The region might have been characterized as more stable with Saddam in place, but that ignores the atrocities committed to his own people and propensity to attack his neighbors, ignoring endless UN sanctions.

    Those attrocities are no different than the ones carried out in Saudi Arabia every Friday. There are other dictatorships all over the world who are just as brutal as Sadddam ever was.

    As far as Saddam attacking his neighbors: We were the biggest chearleader when he went after Iran. We even financed him and gave him weapons.

    But since the first gulf war, he hadn’t been doing anything to his neighbors — we had him under control. It is quite possible that if it went on too much longer, his government would have been overthrown — at no cost to us.

    The rest of your cut and paste talking points, re: taking over oil supply and production, refugees etc. I should ignore, but one more time, out loud.

    Well, that would be ignoring the elephant in the room, wouldn’t it?

    The refugee issue is a HUGE deal, and you don’t want to discuss it — because….?

  22. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    Well, so far we haven’t been successful in convincing the Iraqis to hand it over yet. But it isn’t for a lack of pressuring.

    WTF?
    Was there a specific national muscle-play you saw, or are you still just hissin’ at the contractors?

  23. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

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    But since the first gulf war, he hadn’t been doing anything to his neighbors

    So soon some forget.

  24. Unregistered Comment by DukeFenton

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    #17 by Sir Christopher UNITED STATES

    UN: We have criticized Israel unfairly

    Gee, you think letting Syria run the Human Rights Commission might have has something to do with that?

  25. Unregistered Comment by DukeFenton

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    #18 by DJ Allyn

    Of course, every time they start to decide something for themselves, we come along and put them back in their place.

    Fair enough - sort of reminds me how every time the ‘One Tick Pony’ you just invented tries to do something different, all your buddies in the Congress start the harping chorus of “It won’t work!” and “It already failed” before it’s even tried.

    The roughly 75 percent does want a stable situation in Iraq, but most feel that the only way it can stabalize is with us out of the way, and making the Iraqis stand up for themselves.

    I think the diversity of opinion is too great for you to be making the arbitrary claim that, ‘most of them just happen to think exactly what I do’ - but don’t let that stop you from pretending to speak for others, it never did before.

    It isn’t working the current way, it’s just keeping things at the status quo.

    Except when you want to pretend it’s getting worse and worse and worse and was never as bad as it is now. Do you actually look at facts or just make up whatever is convenient for the moment?

    Move our troops to the border areas to prevent unwanted people from entering the country.

    Tell me, O All-Wise Majesty, would you grant us permission to do so for our own country?

    Of course, the media in this country hasn’t done much talking about the fact that roughly one-tenth of Iraq’s pre-war population has fled the country, and another tenth has been forcibly displaced and too poor to leave the country.

    ‘Sfunny, it seems to work for Mexico and I haven’t heard you bitching about their plight.

    These people would love to return home — if the sectarian violence went away, and just as important, that there were jobs they can come back to.

    OK then - can you ask your friends with the face masks and roadside bombs to knock it the fuck off?

    You will try to say that this whole exercise had absolutely nothing to do with oil, but the evidence to the contrary is more than overwhelming.

    Really? I’m still looking for reports of Exxon tankers leaving Basra without paying, and for some strange reason I can’t find any. Must be a Bu$Hitler cover-up…

  26. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Those attrocities (sic) are no different than the ones carried out in Saudi Arabia every Friday.

    There are government-sponsored rape rooms (where government goons rape wives & daughters in front of their families), human-shredder machines, poison gas attacks, helicopter gunship attacks on innocent civilians, wholesale environmental disasters to punish indigenous rebels (such as draining the entire Southern marsh system) happening in Shoddy Retardia?

    There are other dictatorships all over the world who are just as brutal as Sadddam ever was.

    Aaaaah, the old “If we don’t take ‘em ALL out at the same time, we can’t take ANY of ‘em out!” idiot talking point. I see that the docs didn’t excise the stoopid gland while they were working on you.

    As far as Saddam attacking his neighbors: We were the biggest chearleader when he went after Iran.

    Yeeeeeeah. There was that little thing about the Iranians storming our embassy and holding our “diplomatically immune” citizens hostage for 444 days. How DARE we cheer on the guys kicking their asses a few months down the road.

    We even financed him…

    :em99:

    Our “financing” him consisted of continuing to buy the same oil that Jimmuh Retarder was buying from him before the Iran-Iraq War.

    …and gave him weapons.

    At least you didn’t use the “We gave him MOST of his weapons!” MorOn.Org talking point this time!

    :em99:

    I don’t know how many times I’ve gotta whack you across the snout over this, Dave, but Saddam’s inventory consisted almost 100% of Soviet, fWench & Chinese military hardware. If you’ve got Sooper Seekrit™ documentation of American hardware laying around, I’d greatly appreciate you letting us see it.

    But since the first gulf war, he hadn’t been doing anything to his neighbors — we had him under control.

    Yeah, Dave, at a cost to us of tens of billions of dollars and a severe drain on morale. (I know. Back in ‘94, rotating over to Shoddy Retardia for 3 months, every 3 months, in perpetuity, was one of the reasons I got out of the USAF. Slick Willie gutting the military and being a gutless hater of all military persons was another.)

    And your “under control” is another string in a long line of flaming strawmen that you’ve posted here over the years. That vaunted “No-Fly Zone” you and your Drooling Underachieving™ friends like to trot out only pertained to FIXED-WING AIRCRAFT. Sod’em and his Band of Merry Murderers™ were free to roam around the country in helicopter gunships and kill anyone they wanted. Don’t believe me? Ask the Kurds in the North and the Marsh Arabs in the South. (I know this for a fact, because I was there flying “Operation Provide Comfort” and “Operation Southern Watch” missions after GWI. I even got the T-shirt for the latter to prove it. ;-) )

    The refugee issue is a HUGE deal, and you don’t want to discuss it — because…?

    You mean the refugees that were already outside Iraq because of the Ba’athist Butcher of Baghdad? The ones who started returning, in droves, after his fall? If there were still a HUGE refugee problem, caused by the coalition overthrow of Sod’em, where are the incessant calls for help from the UN by the surrounding countries?

    The Gators are on TV, so I’m leaving for now. Keep drinking that Kool Aid®, brother.