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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Huckabee-Worth Another Look
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Most of us here in the Reagan-Conservative wing of the party, just haven’t seen the fire in our early favorite Fred Thompson. Fred has the creds as a true conservative, but the generals are going to require running a positive campaign on principles and value. We can’t afford to run from a defensive posture or make the central theme attacking Hillary in spite of the target rich environment that comes with her ‘resume’. The real danger lies in the values voters segment of the wobbly GOP. The RINO/Limo-Cons in the RNC will be pushing for a more moderate candidate, and as expected Rudy appears at this juncture to be their boy.

I have every confidence in Rudy Giulani’s ability to serve competently in the Oval Office, but I fear he’s carefully masked his own RINO side, I like to call it “Bloomberg-Lite”. This is how I see it. Rudy takes the nomination, the RNC plays up his moderate side, the solid conservative base walks and Hillary wins by default.

The Bottom Line: The only hope of electing a true Conservative into the White House is to run a solid, value-based campaign with a candidate beyond reproach on the touchstones of Reagan Conservatism. Smaller government, lower taxes, strong national defense (including border issues), openly pro-Second Amendment, and commitment to appointing strict constructionists to the federal bench.

Said candidate, needs to be ready to stand-up and throw enough punches to resist the surefire, full-throttle attacks that the Hillary crowd is guaranteed to use and more importantly, stay on-message.

So far, we just haven’t seen that from Fred, we expected his late entry to be immediately followed by an all-out sprint and it just hasn’t happened.

Enter the previous long-shot, Mike Huckabee. I’ve been following him, catching bits and pieces of interviews, sound-bites and the odd info-bit. The more I hear the more I like, he has an in-your-face style, 100% Reagan Conservative principles and no fear of expressing them sans nuance. He’s the Real Deal. Period.

Huckabee is showing all the signs of making a strong showing in Iowa, likely a strong second place and more importantly I came across this piece:

Huckabee, Romney Chalk Up Wins

His general characterization as a long-shot was based on his previous fund-raising ability, but the value voters are key to correcting that. In spite of a relatively small poll, it shows great potential for him. Other sources are beginning to chatter about Huckabee as an undercard for Rudy, but that won’t satisfy the wing of the party that’s had it with RINOs. We’re smart enough to see that as a “tossing us a bone” from the RNC, and it won’t work in the general elections.

I think we all need to give Mike Huckabee another look, a real HARD look.

37 Responses to “Huckabee-Worth Another Look”
  1. Unregistered Pingback by Cigar Intelligence Agency » Blog Archive » Huckabee-Worth Another Look

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    […] Cross Posted at the Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler […]

  2. Unregistered Pingback by Mike Huckabee Is Pumping Jane Up : “7.62mm Justice” ™

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    […] Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler Sphere: Related Content […]

  3. LC Rurik Comment by LC Rurik

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    I’m trying to keep an open mind, but I suggest the look we give Huckabee must be really hard.
    My big reservation, aside from a prejudice against Hope Arkansas, is Huckabee’s alleged devotion to the so-called “FAIR” tax (sic). :em01: Among the few first principles, any program which tries to load the sematic argument in its very name is inherently suspect. :em72: Better known as a national sales tax, the promised introductory rate may be anywhere from 14% to 28%, or even more, depending on whose analysis you use. However, it will certainly not remain there. To counteract the inherently “regressive” nature of such a tax, everyone is supposed to receive an annual government reimbursement check. :em01: Though the various porposed details and systems differ, all of them mean not a shrinkage of our national taxing agency, but a growth. And even worse, once everyone gets a federal check, everyone is on the dole and everyone is now a registered serf. And addicted. And more vulnerable to political control. :em95: And that yearly/monthly check can be more easily terminated or reduced. You guys who are concerned about privacy? - You want your gummint check, you gonna hafta choose. :em96: How much do you trust the Feral Government? :em01:

    This sounds more than a little like Hildebeeste’s give every family a check routine. And it sounds even more like Georgie McGovernment’s old 1972 idea about an annual check for every citizen. And this is anothr of those situations which we cannot try before buy.
    When a politician says “fair“, you know what that means. :em95:

  4. Unregistered Comment by jbuist

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    You guys who are concerned about privacy? - You want your gummint check, you gonna hafta choose. How much do you trust the Feral Government?

    Uhm, under the current system the Federal government knows where I work, how much money I make, the location of every interest bearing account, if/what charities I donate to, what religious organizations I donate money to, the details of every single stock trade I make, how much interest I’m paying on my mortgage, and probably a host of other things I forgot to mention. My own mother doesn’t know that much about my life!

    I don’t see how Fair Tax would be any worse of a privacy issue. I don’t think you can design a tax system that’s any more invasive than the one we currently have.

    Huckabee made a pretty good case for himself last night. I’ll be paying more attention to him in the future, and would put him as my #2 choice right now.

  5. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Rurik:

    Please read Neal Boortz’ and Congressman Linder’s book. I found it to be persuasive PROVIDED that the Federal Income Tax is abolished beyond all hope of resurection. Yes, there are problems, but no matter how the Government is funded, there are problems.

    Look at who the most vocal enemies of the Fair Tax are. Most of them fall into the category of “Whatever thay want, I’m agin’!”

    Raising the level of the fair tax, in as much as it would be paid at every transaction, would cause a much greater, and more immediate, outcry than a corresponding increase in the income tax. Plus, we lose an entire Government Agency, arguably the most hated of the lot.

    Please read the book with an open mind, and I am sure we will have ample opportunity to discuss it at length. The alternative to electing a supporter of such a measure seems to look more and more like electing someone who will raise all of our taxes.

    ===========================

    Now, back to Mike Huckabee. Listening to the man, I find that he would be an acceptable President. As Rurik, I have some slight reservations, not least of which, as he mentions, is the poor track record of Men from Hope.

    Unfortunately, while I still prefer Fred, he just ain’t setting the world on fire with his campaign. I suspect that his popularity and interest may have peaked several months before he declared. He’s a great guy, and a movement conservative, but seems, oh, I don’t know, tired, maybe? When he appears in public, I just don’t see the fire.

    Mike at least looks like he really wants the job, ya know?

  6. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Mike at least looks like he really wants the job, ya know?

    And if that doesn’t worry you, nothing will. The ideal candidate would be dragged kicking and screaming into office, begging to be let off, offering up his daughters in exchange for a pardon and spending every last day of his time in office counting the days left.

    On another note, I don’t much like Smoke Nazis or other Nanny Statist Do-Gooders.

    If Huck is genuinely concerned about The Childreeeennnnn™ and second hand smoke, then he’s either a cynical murderer or an imbecile. The only honest position on smoking if he were that concerned would be to advocate the immediate prohibition against the production, sales and consumption of tobacco. After all, if second hand smoke really IS that dangerous (it isn’t, at least not according to any existing study), then just what on Earth is he on about only wanting to ban it in some places? Is it OK to Murder The Childreennnnn™ a little bit, or is he just concerned that the federal cash cow that is smoking would go away?

    Other than that, he’s fine. But I don’t want a candidate who thinks that it is his job to tell me how to live my own life. And if he tries to force me, then I’ll end his.

    Better dead than a slave.

  7. feminizedwesternmale Comment by feminizedwesternmale

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    I don’t like Huck’s stand on immigration (at least what I have heard so far). It sounds too Bushian to me… too much of the incomplete/misunderstanding of Christianity being an impetus for Gubmint-charity work. Um, sorry guys, but that ain’t what Christ said, and it sure ain’t in our Constitution.

  8. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Well put Boss:

    And if that doesn’t worry you, nothing will

    I’m not quite ready to jump ship either, as there just isn’t anything else out there, that I haven’t discounted in one way or another. With that said, something anything needs to change and soon, to get Fred looking like he wants to run (allowing for the ‘over-eager’ appearance). The only way I see him picking up the pace is to have the right-wing at least looking like we’re still shopping. And yes, tobacco nazis and the well make-you-healthy-by-force crowd can go perform physiologically improbable sexual acts on themselves.

    This primary has to be shaken loose and hard, or we end up with Rudy. I’ll back whoever we end up with, but we have a narrow window to get a true conservative (Fred or Huck) on the ticket. Unless Fred starts his rushing game it’s going to be over.

  9. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

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    I’m still voting for FRED! in the primaries. If HE doesn’t win the primary, I’m hoping it will be Tancredo. If it turns into Huckabee, okay. I don’t want some damn yankee in the White House, but the ABC rule applies. Anybody But Clinton. I will vote if for no other reason than to keep HER out. :em72: :em38: :em72:

  10. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    I like what Huckabee has to say, and I like the way he says it. The only problem is: He will NEVER BEAT HILLARY.
    Most of the people who blog on Misha’s site are intelligent and aware of what’s going on in the world.
    Sadly, MOST Americans couldn’t name the two countries that border the United States.

    If the Republicans don’t nominate someone that the general public knows or likes, they will lose the election to the Socialist Democrats.

    I know that the conservatives who blog here want someone to reflect ALL of their values, but that’s virtually impossible at this point.
    I want a candidate who will WIN, and there are only 3 candidates with enough name recognition to do that. None of them have a “Huck” in their name.

    Having said that, I will vote Republican if the candidate is a turd. It couldn’t possibly smell as bad as having Hillary Beast as our president…

  11. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    Oh, and if I haven’t made my point well enough, imagine this:
    Four years of listening to Hillary’s nasally, droning voice over and over and over….
    Makes me want to stick a sharp pencil into my ear just thinking about it.

  12. LC Rurik Comment by LC Rurik

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    jbuist

    I don’t think you can design a tax system that’s any more invasive than the one we currently have.

    Oh I do admire your sense of optimism. :em01: :em01: I wish I shared it. I suspect that all the items you listed will continue to be reported under any tax system, icluding my preference, the flat tax, or the Fair (sic) tax, particularly if there is any sort of plan for reimbursement of sales taxes paid by citizens, which would involve documenting what one spent and purchased during the year. In fact, to your list of income sources tracked, you will also be able to expand the list to report whatever you bought. And I wouldn’t be real comfortable about documenting that $150 cash transaction at Maggie’s Midnight Sauna, and why it wasn’t %40 or $250. :em41: But then, I don’t oppose the Fair (sic) tax, or support any other alternative on the basis of increasing or reducing meddling by our Feral Government.
    Likewise, Wil, it has nothing to do with abolishing an entire Government Agency, arguably the most hated of the lot (it is, and I challenge you to find anyone who would necessitate your use of the word arguably - excepting some of their career employees). But that ain’t gonna happen. :em58: First, it is, I think, the second largest civilian Feral agency after the post office, and you just don’t abolish something that large by declaration. If you try, you’ll have to use the same tactics used to dismantle the Knights Templars. :em94: Second, even under a Fair (sic) tax, you will still find a massive Feral agency remaining in place to collect the accumulated receipts, and to audit the merchants, industrialists, and assorted others who will be collecting the taxes along the way, and mailing out those national reimbursement checks, aftr checking your spending receipts. There may be a minor adjustment of the agency name, but that never made much difference to the Cheka/NKVD/KGB/FSB. I sense a massive future for tax skimmers and blackmarketeers, and a bad time for grandmas busted for failing to collect taxes at their garage sales.

    But most of all, my objection is the plan for giving a rebate check to every citiizen as a way of making it bearable. Whether it is to support a massive sales tax, or support health insurance, or having more babies (in itself a great idea), a program where everybody registers for a new dole, is a recipe for a plushy serfdom. That’s how animals get domesticated.

    “Whatever thay want, I’m agin’!”

    Sounds to me like a recipe for keeping a Feral government constrained. :em94: As Hippocrates put it many centuries ago “First, do no harm.” Second, inflcit no good deeds, but let the dogs sleep in peace, particularly if they’re rotties. :em94:

  13. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    I ain’t ready to bail on Fred! yet, no where near it. But Huckabee was a possible contender of mine way back, circa Tampa Rottfest. I will vote for Fred! in the primary, but I looked at all the candidates last night, and with the exception of Rudy, Paul, and McCain, I could gladly vote for any of them in the general, especially against Hillary.

    I’m with Nerby on the General Election. Even though I may need a shower afterwards, I will vote for any of them over Hillary.

    But I have strong hopes that Fred! will come on strong. And I KNOW that he could clean the floor with the socialist Hildabeast in a debate AND in the generals.

  14. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    And if that doesn’t worry you, nothing will. The ideal candidate would be dragged kicking and screaming into office, begging to be let off, offering up his daughters in exchange for a pardon and spending every last day of his time in office counting the days left.

    Yeah, I know, but unfortunately, the way the system is set up, one has to ask for it. Usually, the ideal candidate has an attitude of “If Nominated, I will not run, if Elected, I will not serve!” We haven’t seen that for a while.

    Lacking that, if we have to have someone in the office who misses that mark, I would at least expect them to put some effort into putting forth their resume for the hiring managers.

    I’m not ready to give up on Fred - far from it. I believe he is the best qualified, and he comes closest to my ideal candidate. I just wish he would get off the damn dime.

    Until then, out of the “other rans,” I like Mike Huckabee best. As Nerby points out, he is not terribly well known, but we have a year to fix that little problem, and that also means he ain’t got the baggage that, say, Newt has.

    That is, unless we can amend that pesky Constitution and let you run, boss! :em93:

  15. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Rurik:

    Unless you are looking at a different version of the fair tax than the one I have seen, there is NO record keeping. The proposal is that the Government sends everyone a check (once per quarter) for the amount of sales tax that would be paid for a poverty level existance taxes (that is, the sales tax that would be paid on food an housing by someone at the current poverty level. IIRC, for a family of 4, that came to about $1500 every three months. The “record keeping” would be nothing more than telling them you are still alive and where you want the check sent.

    No, I don’t think it is ideal, but I believe that, properly implemented, it is a good step in the right direction.

    Ideal would be make the politicians pay the cost of their nasty habits out their own pockets. They wanna be in charge? Make them pay for the privilege!

    And I said “arguably” because I think the Department of Education should get at least an honorable mention on the list. Possibly HHS as well.

  16. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    LCRurik:
    Read the Fair Tax Book. If you don’t understand it, then you are a dumb fuck who doesn’t understand taxes in the first place or how the tax system works.

    Read it, THEN come back with comments.
    Oh, by the way, you can probably read the book from the library for FREE.
    Don’t be an idiot and comment on a tax system(brilliant) that is slammed by the MSM. They’ve never read the book, and that’s why they SLAM the concept.
    It’s “taxes made easy”.

  17. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    LCRurik:
    By the way, this tax system would NOT give loopholes to the rich. It’s a consumption tax, and they consume more than anybody else. Spend more pay more. Spend less, pay less. Get it?

    Just get the book. If you don’t get the concept then you don’t understand shit about how our economy works anyway.

    This tax eliminates the IRS, tax filing and lobbyists.
    Sound good to anyone here?
    I may not be for Huck, but I would like to change the tax code, and this makes perfect sense–if anyone here would read the fricking book!

  18. hitnrun Comment by hitnrun

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    Fred Hunterbee > Rudy McRomney.

    The fact is, the decision is probably going to be made for us. Whichever viable conservative - right now it’s down to Fred, Hunter, Huckabee - has the best chance to win must get my vote, or I risk letting Rudy McRomney win.

    In my opinion, splitting hairs among good candidates is a fool’s business in this chaotic field, with so few good candidates to choose from. If someone has good views and the best chance to win, you have to vote for him.

    I like what Huckabee has to say, and I like the way he says it. The only problem is: He will NEVER BEAT HILLARY.

    This is a pretty common sentiment, but the fact is that no matter who the Republicans nominate, the chief source of the candidate’s support is going to be disgust and horror at Hillary. Her negatives aren’t going anywhere.

    The US is not New York State.

    The people suggesting now that the Republicans have to nominate Giuliani or McCain or- if their balls are REALLY big and the REALLY want to take a dare- Romney, are the same mediots who obfuscated 2000 and outright predicted Kerry’s victory publicly until the returns came in that night in 2004, with Chris Matthews triumphantly proclaiming “those people aren’t lined up in the rain to vote for the status quo!”

    Well, turns out they were. The media was wrong. As it’s been every election, on-year and off-year, since 1992 (excepting only this last year). In fact, it was probably wrong in the years before that, too, but my grasp of politics before then is a bit spotty, and besides, there was no internet.

  19. chuck Comment by chuck

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    I don’t especially care for Huckabee due to sowe things he has said about the illegal immigration problem but I will argue that nerbygirl is wrong about him not being able to beat Hillary. The only republicans that in the end will not be able to defeat her are Rudy, Romneym and McCain. If we can nominate a true conservative, they will get their message out, and they will win. The Republican Party’s biggest mistake is thinking they can defeat a liberal with a slightly less liberal. If two main segments of the base, the evangelicals and the gun-rights voters, are thrown under the bus to try to appeal to people who are going to vote Democrat anyway, they will lose.

  20. Unregistered Comment by Troodon

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    Um, you do realize that this guy doesn’t stand a snoball’s chance in Hell of getting the Repubilican nomination, much less getting elected? Idealism is nice for political debates and discussions, but I use realism when I go to the voting booth, and vote for who I consider to be the best candidate amonsth those who have a realistic chance of getting elected (If I was using idealism, I’d probably actually vote Libertarian on ocassion, but my realistic side tells me that’s just a wasted vote.) Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Giuliani might not be the ideal candidate, but he’s defnitely better than Hillary or Obama… and has a realistic chance of actually winning. I don’t get why people use this “true conservative” (or what that matter, “true liberal”) label as a litmus test, or just vote for whatever party they feel a loyalty to… I just let the primaries play themselves out, let the major parties figure out who they want to represent them, and vote for whichever of the two I feel will screw up the country the least. Not the best system I guess, but beats a dictatorship I suppose. At least under this system you’re only stuck with someone for up to 4 years.

  21. Unregistered Comment by Conan the Cimmerian

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    Smaller government, lower taxes, strong national defense (including border issues), openly pro-Second Amendment, and commitment to appointing strict constructionists to the federal bench.

    Said candidate, needs to be ready to stand-up and throw enough punches to resist the surefire, full-throttle attacks that the Hillary crowd is guaranteed to use and more importantly, stay on-message.

    So far, we just haven’t seen that from Fred,

    So far we haven’t seen that from ANY of them. This is one big bunch of liberal light/ uninspired candidates.

    Remember Bob Dole?

    If I may quote someone, Conservatism works every time it is tried

    Too bad the Republican party majority does not see it this way.

  22. Unregistered Comment by Conan the Cimmerian

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    The people suggesting now that the Republicans have to nominate Giuliani or McCain or- if their balls are REALLY big and the REALLY want to take a dare- Romney, are the same mediots who obfuscated 2000 and outright predicted Kerry’s victory publicly until the returns came in that night in 2004, with Chris Matthews triumphantly proclaiming “those people aren’t lined up in the rain to vote for the status quo!”

    Well, turns out they were. The media was wrong.

    This is exactly right. And when the party goes stupid, and nominates one of these leftist-liberal northeastern republican or McCain (Rudy McRomney), the Southron vote and the Heartland vote will be thoroughly suppressed due to lack of heart to turn their backs on their core conservative beliefs. They will not pour out to vote for Liberals with an R by their name

  23. Unregistered Comment by Conan the Cimmerian

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    Riddle me this Batman, what happens when, as a Republican you urinate on your base in the South and Midwest? It will not be the smell of victory in the morning.

  24. Imperial Tobacconist LC&IB M Comment by Imperial Tobacconist LC&IB M

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    Don’t get me wrong. I want to like Fred. I really do. He seems to stand for all the right things.

    But after his less-than-stellar debate performance and his lackadaisical approach to campaigning, along with his apparent inability to think on his feet in the face of any questioning at all, has led me to believe that if there’s a candidate among the Republican field who’s “not electable”…it just might be him.

    The ones saying Huckabee isn’t electable, on the other hand, are the ones who are just parroting what the MSM wants you to hear, and they haven’t actually taken a look at him. I have. As a matter of fact, a number of years back while he was Lt. Governor of Arkansas and I working in Texarkana Tower as a controller there, I had more than one occasion to sit and have a cup of coffee with him and his wife, Janet.

    Forget the “man from Hope” image. First of all, he’s not from Hope, but from Texarkana (although they call North Little Rock home now), and consider the fact that he’s a two-term-elected Republican governor from a state that traditionally elects Democrats.

    He’s pro-life, pro-small government, pro-2A (and was the first governor in the nation with a CHL) and has the guts to say that our current system of taxation is broken beyond repair.

    The more I look at him, the more I like Mike!

  25. LC Rurik Comment by LC Rurik

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    Wil

    Ideal would be make the politicians pay the cost of their nasty habits out their own pockets. They wanna be in charge? Make them pay for the privilege!

    And I said “arguably” because I think the Department of Education should get at least an honorable mention on the list. Possibly HHS as well.

    Response well taken, On this part, we’re in total agreement. In fact, if we could rid ourselves of Hell and Human Servicing (The Texas ranchers know the transitive verb “to service”), and Depth of Miseducation, we might also have considerably less need for the IRS!)

    Nerdy Girl

    I willingly admit I have not read THE BOOK. I have read numerous favorable advocacy articles in the conservative press, and on the web, and also a number of critiques – which it appears you have not. So I am well familiar with the concept as proposed by the sales tax advocates, even if I have not consulted True Scripture. Then I thought about these issues and tried to consider what would most likely actually happen. Remember, no theory survives intact its first contact with the legislators. And do not forget the Law of Unintended Consequences. I have posted objections and problems which I foresee occurring with any attempt at real life implementation, but so far, I have heard, here and elsewhere, only confident denials that “it won’t work that way”. That is always the introduction to major surprises. I worked as a Silly Circus manager for several years, and I know the reality of implementation, and the tricks of the Civil Serpents.

    We won’t need an IRS because the merchants will collect the tax for us and send the money straight to the treasury. And it will work on the honor system, right? How many weeks before some of these businesses discover ways of skimming the tax receipts? And if sales tax is to be paid on all sales, we’re going to destroy that American tradition, the delight of women and the dread of men, the garage sale. Either that or start busting a lot old grannies. Ever hear of the black market? Of smuggling? Of barter? Are you aware of the problems already in collecting the taxes on cigarette sales? We may call it something else, but there will be an agency much like the IRS to audit and investigate the business records of anyone who sells anything. And what of “sale of services”, haircuts, car washes, dentistry, etc.? Whatever is promised, you may be sure that services will get the sales tax too, in very quick order. These are just some of the realities we can expect on the collection side, as contrasted with the theoretical promises.
    No, don’t assure me of what THE BOOK says, we got the same sort of reassurances about Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and for that matter the Income Tax itself, which if you knew your history, was only ever supposed to take a couple of percent from the top one percent of the population.

    On the disbursing side, again the theory appears oblivious to reality. They’re just going to send a check to every citizen to reimburse for living expense sales tax? Sounds to me very much like the FEMA method for Katrina relief. How many dead people vote every two years? How many dogs, cats and goldfish are going to acquire full names and SSNs? Who is going to check those SSNs to prevent such fraud? Just mail in a card every year to confirm your existence. Doggone, my Momma’s going to outlive me for sure, and Daddy may be resurrected. In fact, “doggone” might be the wrong expression – Rover T. Rurik is also going to outlive me. If you’re a Chinese dishwasher contributing to Hillary, you will apply under both the Pinyan and Wade-Giles transliterations of your name. We will need a government agency, much like an IRS to track and confirm all those identities. And in some explanations of the Fair (sic) tax, it has been said that people could claim their tax reimbursement on the basis of documentation; that might seem more fair (that word again!), but would also lead us right back into individual record-keeping and reporting, that sales taxes are supposed to abolish. And I am certain there are also numerous other scams which will be devised beyond my imagination.

    In addition to the mechanical problems, I am bothered by the tactics of the Fair (sic) Taxers. I am bothered by their reluctance to call their proposal by its neutral, and proper name, a National Sales Tax, which is both more honest and clearer than insisting on a handle like Fair tax. Why the reluctance? The presumption is that once you’ve heard the name, that should settle the debate by itself. If you don’t accept THE BOOK, then you are dumb fuck. I know there are advocates, like Wil, who seem able to argue and able to comprehend differing conclusions. And then there are those Nerdy people who argue by warning you in advance that if you don’t agree with them you are an idiot. These people seem to have a semi-religious devotion which cannot tolerate the thought of a different opinion. Nerdy Girl, you remind me too much of the fanaticism of the Paulbots and the earlier Perotistas. That does not inspire confidence in your (BRILLIANT!) system. Instead your outburtsts lead me to think you need to be spanked and sent to your room.

    And Nerdy Girl, you seem to be under the delusion that the purpose of tax policy should be sticking it to the rich. Maybe I’m an idiot, but that matters to me not at all, one way or the other. But I suspect that a National Sales Tax will not stick it to the rich. First, they do not have to spend most their money on either expenses or luxuries, as do the lower orders. Second, the truly rich will be better able to avoid large sales taxes, just as they do now with the current income tax. Buy offshore, smuggle, use tax havens, barter, etc.
    The people, if any, who will benefit are the comfortable middling classes who are already established with home, furniture, and car, and will be able to put their salaries into money market accounts. The ones who will be hardest hit are the old, retired folks who have already paid exorbitant income taxes on their wealth as they earned it, and will then be expected to pay exorbitant taxes again as they finally begin to spend it. And also the young, who are just starting out, and need to make major purchases of car, home, furniture and other big ticket items while they still have not yet reached their peak earning years. Of course, if they count stocks and bonds as “sales” to be taxed, then your hated rich will also suffer more, but then so, too, will every middle class person with a 401K plan or other investment portfolio. My own bet is to never underestimate the greed or the cunning of our political masters, and also to assume that every tasty-looking worm contains a hook.

    I dislike the tax code and the IRS, just as much as any of us. But I’ve also learned that lashing out and making changes without understanding what the real results will be, and not just the glowing promises, is the way to avoid making things worse.

    Nor will abolishing the IRS make the lobbyists disappear; they are a function not only of the tax code, but as much or more, of the spending bills. As long as the government busies itself with personal, social and economic matters, beyond the defense of the borders and civic order, there will be lobbyists.

    As for the assorted Republican politicians, I see a number of attractive aspects to several of them, and at least a serious flaw in each of them. And a whole series of alarming flaws in all their Demoncrap rivals. But I am going to try to remain patient and aviod being stampeded into rash decisions, which probably will have little effect anyway.

  26. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    LC Rurik:
    You’ve read “favorable advocacy articles” and “critiques” about the Fair Tax and now YOU know everything?
    Hey, I was a skeptic until I read the book–which explains how this new tax system would work–in great detail.
    If you’d read the book, you would find that every American would NOT be reimbursed for living expenses. You haven’t read the book, so you don’t have your facts straight.

    And I am certainly NOT someone who wants to “stick it to the rich”. I happen to like rich people. In fact, I am working very hard to becoming one of them myself. The Fair Tax would not screw the rich, it would keep them honest. I have very wealthy friends who love to brag about the loopholes they find in our present tax system. LEGAL loopholes.
    In the Fair Tax, there are no loopholes, no deductions and you get to keep all of your hard earned money.

    But you just keep reading opinion pieces about the Fair Tax instead of reading the actual PLAN that is painstakingly laid out in the book bearing it’s name.
    To reply to all of the false statements that you’ve made would require me to go to my bookshelf, open the Fair Tax book, and refute you on each and every point, and frankly, I have better things to do.
    Why don’t YOU go to the library or bookstore and read the book yourself? You would get the FACTS instead of the filtered commentary that you’ve read in various articles.
    Read the ENTIRE tax plan. It’s actually quite interesting.
    Then go wipe that egg off of your face.

    By the way, I’d rather be a “Nerdy Girl” than an ignoramus any day.

  27. Imperial Tobacconist LC&IB M Comment by Imperial Tobacconist LC&IB M

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    And if sales tax is to be paid on all sales, we’re going to destroy that American tradition, the delight of women and the dread of men, the garage sale. Either that or start busting a lot old grannies.

    And again you show you don’t know as much about the Fair Tax as you like to claim you do. The tax is only charged on the first time purchase of a new item by the end user. Buy a used car? No tax. Purchase a used home? No tax. Buy a brand-new widget? Tax.
    Buy new lumber to build a lawn chair for resale? No tax. Buy the new lawn chair someone else built for resale? Tax.

  28. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    LC Rurik:
    You’ve read “favorable advocacy articles” and “critiques” about the Fair Tax and now YOU know everything?
    Hey, I was a skeptic until I read the book–which explains how this new tax system would work–in great detail.

    If you’d read the book, you would find that every American would NOT be reimbursed for living expenses. You haven’t read the book, so you don’t have your facts straight.
    And I am certainly NOT someone who wants to “stick it to the rich”. I happen to like rich people. In fact, I am working very hard to becoming one of them myself. The Fair Tax would not screw the rich, it would keep them honest. I have very wealthy friends who love to brag about the loopholes they find in our present tax system. LEGAL loopholes.

    In the Fair Tax, there are no loopholes, no deductions and you get to keep all of your hard earned money.
    But you just keep reading opinion pieces about the Fair Tax instead of reading the actual PLAN that is painstakingly laid out in the book bearing it’s name.
    To reply to all of the false statements that you’ve made would require me to go to my bookshelf, open the Fair Tax book, and refute you on each and every point, and frankly, I have better things to do.
    Why don’t YOU go to the library or bookstore and read the book yourself? You would get the FACTS instead of the filtered commentary that you’ve read in various articles.
    Read the ENTIRE tax plan. It’s actually quite interesting.

    Then go wipe that egg off of your face.

    By the way, I’d rather be a “Nerdy Girl” than an ignoramus any day.

  29. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    PS Rurik:

    If you’re going to “quote scripture”, you’d better read the Bible first.
    Comprehend?

  30. LC Rurik Comment by LC Rurik

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    I do not claim to “know a lot” about the so-called Fair Tax. I have suspicions and questions, some of which I have posed. But then neither does anyone else really know anything about how this tax actually will look and function, including Mr. Boorts and Cong. Lindner - at least not until the bill is reported favorably out of House Committee. I repeat - no theory survives first contact with the legislators. Perhaps such a bill reported out of committee after legislative surgery, would resolve my major concerns, and they I would gladly change my opinion and support it. Or it may turn out to be something far different from what you expect, and far worse. But the idea that the 16th Ammendment is going to be repealed and such a bill reported out as a replacement, is a political fantasy, desirable or not. Till then I have no great interest on pursuing such a hypothetical topic.
    I continue to remain suspicious of the cultish behavior of some advocates, which appears to verge on monomania, and specifically on the use of propagandistic langauge to disguise the true nature of the tax proposal. Why the bitter avoidance of the label National Sales Tax? Then you could argue whether it is more or less fair than other means of taxation. Perhaps your arguments would carry the day. Or maybe not.

    And I am certainly NOT someone who wants to “stick it to the rich”.

    You certainly sounded in the following passage as if you were concerned with making sure that they should not escape paying more.

    By the way, this tax system would NOT give loopholes to the rich. It’s a consumption tax, and they consume more than anybody else. Spend more pay more. Spend less, pay less. Get it?

    Let me repeat once again, I will be interested in seeing what proposal actually emerges into legislation, till then it is all aimless chatter.

  31. Serious Sean Comment by Serious Sean

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    Apparently Fred handled himself pretty well in the last debate, which is a good sign: http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2007/10/debate_analysis.php

  32. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    LCRurik:
    Sadly, you refuse to read the book or do the research. You justify your arguments on stuff you’ve read about.

    Educate yourself, man. I don’t know if this tax plan will work or not, but it’s worth looking at.

    You aren’t even willing to research the facts.
    Grow up and get educated. Read the BOOK, not the media quotes. If you get the full picture of how this tax plan works you will be able to make an INTELLIGENT decision.
    You haven’t even taken the time to do the research, so stop acting like you know what you’re talking about.

  33. Ian Comment by Ian

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    Mike Huckabee is an adroit public speaker. He communicates his message in life-like, cogent terms, with compelling examples like the story he told (at the Ames Straw Poll) of what his then-11-yo daughter entered into the “Comments” section of a Visitors Book after visiting the Yad Vashem holocaust museum: “Why didn’t somebody do something?” Very effective.

    Huckabee is all about calling his listeners to “do something,” to awaken them to their own empowerment, and summon them to action in order that “Main Street,” and not “Wall Street,” will prevail in guarding the values and beliefs upon which the Republic was founded.

    Huckabee puts his listeners at ease, and reassures them, articulating clear concepts in a natural, easy style (no doubt something well-cultivated as a pastor). He’s not angry or demanding, like a Ron Paul, nor is he as “rigidly-scripted” as Romney, and his large brown eyes peer through a humble demeanor, drawing a striking contrast to a somewhat mechanical-squinty Brownback. One can easily imagine sitting comfortably with this man over a cup of coffee at the Main Street Cafe.

    Most importantly, perhaps, Huckabee convinces many that he is ONE with the FairTax grassroots movement. While many - like Romney, and others, who are invested in the current income tax system - seek to demagog the well-researched FairTax plan, its acceptance in the professional / academic community continues to grow. Renown economist Laurence Kotlikoff believes that failure to enact the FairTax - choosing instead to try to “flatten” what he deems to be a non-flattenable income tax system - will eventuate into an irrevocable economic meltdown because of the hidden aspects of the current system that make political accountability impossible.

    Romney’s recent WEAK response to FairTax questioning on “This Week with Geo. Stephanopoulos” drew a sharper contrast between Huckabee and all other presidential front-runners who will not embrace it. Huckabee understands that what’s wrong with the income tax can’t be fixed with “a tap of the hammer, nor a twist of the screwdriver.” That his opponents cling to the destructive Tax Code, the IRS, preserving political power of granting tax favors at continued cost to - and misery of - American families, invigorates his campaign’s raison d’etre.

    Of the FairTax, Huckabee asserts that it’s…

    • SIMPLE, easy to understand
    • EFFICIENT, inexpensive to comply with and doesn’t cause less-than-optimal business decisions for tax minimization purposes
    • FAIR, FLAT, and FAMILY FRIENDLY, loophole-free, and everyone pays their share
    • LOW TAX RATE is achieved by broad base with no exclusions
    • PREDICTABLE, doesn’t change, so financial planning is possible
    • UNINTRUSIVE, doesn’t intrude into our personal affairs or limit our liberty
    • VISIBLE, not hidden from the public in tax-inflated prices or otherwise
    • PRODUCTIVE, rewards - rather than penalizes - work and productivity

    A detailed benefits analysis of the plan (from The FairTax Book) explains Huckabee’s ardent advocacy:

    For individuals:
    • No more tax on income - make as much as you wish
    • You receive your full paycheck - no more deductions
    • You pay the tax when you buy “at retail” - not “used”
    • No more double taxation (e.g. like on current Capital Gains)
    • Reduction of “pre-FairTaxed” retail prices by 20%-30%
    • Adding back 29.9% FairTax maintains current price levels
    • FairTax would constitute 23% portion of new prices
    • Every household receives a monthly check, or “pre-bate”
    • “Prebate” is “advance tax payback” for monthly consumption to poverty level
    • FairTax’s “prebate” ensures progressivity, poverty protection
    Finally, citizens are knowledgeable of what their tax IS
    • Elimination of “parasitic” Income Tax industry
    • NO MORE IRS. NO MORE FILING OF TAX RETURNS by individuals
    • Those possessing illicit forms of income will ALSO pay the FairTax
    • Households have more disposable income to purchase goods
    • Savings is bolstered with reduction of interest rates

    For businesses:
    • Corporate income and payroll taxes revoked under FairTax
    • Business compensated for collecting tax at “cash register”
    • No more tax-related lawyers, lobbyists on company payrolls
    No more embedded (hidden) income/payroll taxes in prices
    • Reduced costs. Competition - not tax policy - drives prices
    • Off-shore “tax haven” headquarters can now return to U.S
    No more “favors” from politicians at expense of taxpayers
    • Resources go to R&D and study of competition - not taxes
    • Marketplace distortions eliminated for fair competition
    • US exports increase their share of foreign markets

    For the country:
    • 7% - 13% economic growth projected in the first year of the FairTax
    Jobs return to the U.S.
    • Foreign corporations “set up shop” in the U.S.
    • Tax system trends are corrected to “enlarge the pie”
    • Larger economic “pie,” means thinner tax rate “slices”
    • Initial 23% portion of price is pressured downward as “pie” increases
    No more “closed door” tax deals by politicians and business
    • FairTax sets new global standard. Other countries will follow

    Passionately supporting FairTax, Huckabee understands that, if elected President, Congress will have to present the bill for his signature. His call to action goes beyond his candidacy: Main Street will have to demand that their legislators deliver the bill.

  34. Unregistered Comment by Sunfish

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    If Huck is genuinely concerned about The Childreeeennnnn™ and second hand smoke, then he’s either a cynical murderer or an imbecile

    My experience, yer Rottiness, based upon a long and undistinguished career in policing and a long and distinguished career of pulling things out of somewhere, is that people who constantly obsess about other peoples’ children are a bunch of pedophiles. That’s the only reason I can think of to prance around “doing it for the Children!”

    I’ve already got an “Arthur Branch for President” sticker on my truck anyway. Tancredo is a fellow Coloradan, and a hell of a good guy, but let’s be real about this. Just give me an actual conservative instead of Rudy McRomney and I’ll be happy.

  35. LC Rurik Comment by LC Rurik

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    Nerb,

    You insist that I must read your Fair Tax book before I can express any doubts or reservations about it. Fine. By your standard, you cannot oppose the Jihadis unless you have studied al-Koran and the haditha; go hop into your burqa and then come on back. And until you’ve read das Kapital and Marx’s other major works, you have no business expressing any preferences about Marxism. Right? Do you think you need to read Mein Kampf to reject Naziism? GET IT!? And how can you oppose Shrillary and Obama or even choose without reading their books? Get it? And then you’ll need to read The Watchtower (BRILLIANT!) and visit regularly with the JWs or become one. And then there are the Truthers; you’ve read their books (BRILLIANT!) haven’t you? You’ll want to read them all, to know you got the correct one. Got it? And I presume you have read the Upanishads and the Vedas, unless you have already adopted the Hindu Religion. Got it?

    If you really were as educated as you think, you’d realize that primary sources are not the only place for serious information. In fact, the secondary sources are essential because they can provide an insight into the primary text, including prodding at the primary author’s assumptions and intellectual sleights of hand. This is particularly true for programmatic advocacy books. Learning anything yet, Missy?

    FYI, when I say I’ve read a number of articles, I failed to be specific – I should have mentioned that I was referring to articles in serious policy journals such as American Enterprise, Policy Review, The National Interest, and others like them, and also various right-of-center news glossies such as National Review and American Spectator. And this has been since the mid-1980s, when the so-called Fair Tax was first (to the best of my knowledge) mentioned. Boortz and Lindner’s 2004(?) book is only the latest rendition of what is not such a new idea after all.

    I want to acknowledge the serious post by Ian. Unlike yourself, he has given a useful summation of Bootz’s proposals, and was also honest enough to declare that they are assertions. You should try his method some time. Looking over Ian’s checklist, I find there are a few details different in the latest rendition, but by and large, my earlier understanding was incorrect only in minor ways. And my opinion still stands. Some features seem appealing, others seem very implausible, and a few, such as the “pre-bate” (and in passing, let me praise at least a brilliant neologism), are utter abominations. But as he says, they are assertions, a point I have been trying to make. Got it?

    During the 1980s, other people began speaking of a different alternative, the Flat Tax. This tax, which never used any some clever marketing title, was exactly that, a straight 14% with no exemptions, additions or gimmicks. This tax was promoted, particularly, by Phil Gramm, then a Senator and PhD in economics, not by some radio talk show host. His mistake was in not giving the Flat Tax a clever marketing name. So now, I will call it the Fairer Tax. The Fairer Tax, addresses some of the same problems as the Somewhat Fair Tax, but by different means, and not all the promised results are the same. I will also tell you that this is another issue which I have not followed deeply in the past or the future. I do not expect any significant tax reform to have a ghost of a chance, and I just have other issues of greater priority. And as I have tried to tell you, theoretical proposals are the jism of mental masturbation; what matters are the legislative proposals, which are always different. Since tax policy is neither my life nor my hobby, I would rather wait for something real before taking sides. Got it?

    I spend on average, a couple of K a year on books, and right now have about two dozen on my urgent reading pile. Ich habe gar nichts die zeit. I don’t have the fucking time. U menya nekhuya ne vremya net. Got it?

    There is one aspect of the Boortz tax, and the Huck campaign, which does alarm me considerably. And that is the boorish behavior of some of his supporters, exemplified by yourself. Your attempts at argumentation seem to be that everyone read your propaganda tracts and accept the Revealed Truth According to Boortz or be demonized and denounced crudely. It is far too evocative of the behavior of Truthers, assorted Leftoid professors with whom I crossed swords in grad school, or for that matter, a commissar during a samokritika session. I would not choose a nominee or president based mainly on his tax policy. Much more important to me, it the nature and quality of the people he attracts to his campaign. As unacceptable as Shrillary is, even worse are the people with whom she surrounds herself. I’d sooner have Shrillary surrounded by Fred people, than a President Fred staffed completely by Hillaristas. Got it? No, I doubt if you do, or ever will. Your mental stormtrooper type has been described well and long ago by Eric Hofer, and again by Kenneth Minogue. I will try to keep reminding myself that you are not necessarily representative of the other people supporting Huck; you’ve really got the manners and intelligence of an infiltrating Kosturd trying to infiltrate and discredit him.

  36. Ian Comment by Ian

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    L C, Thank you for your thoughtful comments about my previous post. Regarding the “Flat Tax,” you mention, I ran across the following by Dan Mastromarco who was responding to a somewhat more ancient anti-FairTax diatribe from Bruce Bartlett - a Reagan econ advisor - from years ago (as opposed to his more recent dissing of the FairTax at The New Republic Online and OpinionJournal.com; Bartlett recently called the FairTax a plot of the Scientologists!):

    (Paraphrased) Reply by Dan R Mastromarco (LL.M., Taxation, Georgetown, principal in the Argus Group, adjunct professor at the University of Maryland, International Management Program, and research consultant to Americans for Fair Taxation - FairTax.org) to:

    “A National Sales Tax Doesn’t Add Up” by Bruce Bartlett, December 29, 1999

    Many engaged in true tax reform find Bartlett-type attacks exasperating, if not embarrassing. I’d like to convey perspective of both flat taxers and sales taxers who believe that such attacks are counterproductive, but first provide some political history by which to frame said perspectives.

    For years Conservatives have posited that a VAT is bad policy (when liberals were discussing it), fearing it would become additional to an income tax (it was called a “money machine”). Circa 1980, conservative intellectuals touted Hall-Rabushka “subtraction method”[ H-R ] VAT which taxed business value added at the business side and labor value added at the labor side. Unlike European VATs (identical in scope), H-R became favorite of Dick Armey and Steve Forbes. It eliminated steeply progressive tax rates and tax on savings. Because of the prior VAT criticisms, H-R was packaged as the “flat tax” and is sold as an income tax to this day, rather than the VAT that its DNA characterizes it as being.

    Some conservative commentators have called for the repeal of the 16th Amendment and for the adoption of the flat tax, (despite the fact that it is styled as a direct tax and could not be adopted with such repeal). Mr. Bartlett has called the national sales tax [ie, the FairTax] a VAT (which it isn’t), castigated VATs as evil, and has said that sales taxes have become VATs in Europe (which they didn’t). In the next breath, he “throws his arms around” the flat tax (which is a VAT). He quotes Bill Gale that the [FairTax] would have to be imposed at 60 percent, but glaringly fails to recognize that if the two bases are the same, he would have to impose that rate for the flat tax to be revenue neutral. In truth, all economists know that the two plans differ NOT in economic effect or base, but in administration.

    An income tax taxes savings and investment multiple times. Both flat tax and FairTax are neutral as to savings and investment, tax income only once, and are both consumption taxes. Both are single rate taxes, have nearly the same base, and would improve the U.S. standard of living. Neither redistributes wealth.

    While some have even suggested that hey are the same plans under different names, the flat tax taxes value added at each stage in the production process, but the FairTax prefers to tax it when it is added up at the end and eliminate the need to make everyone a taxpayer and collector.

    Substantive commonalities between the flat tax and FairTax doesn’t mean that there are NO key political and policy distinctions that could be exploited in pitting one against the other. If FairTax supporters wanted to retaliate in response to the Bartlett-type critique, they would have much material with which to honestly do so:

    • The flat tax will make small firms and farmers pay the tax even if they have no profit
    • The flat tax is opposed by many small business groups
    • The flat taxers implicitly support big government by disguising even more of the overall tax burden as the current law
    • The flat tax has been kicking around for nearly 20 years
    • The flat tax makes everyone a taxpayer and collector, while the FairTax exempts 115 million filers [2000 figure] from ever having to deal with the IRS
    • The flat tax is regressive, but the FairTax would enable everyone to keep his full paycheck.
    • The flat tax has not only stalled, it has lost public and Congressional support.
    • The FairTax is instantly understood, while even some proponents of the flat tax don’t understand it
    • There are no transition rules developed for the flat tax and they would be very difficult to craft
    • The flat tax taxes exports and relieves imports from tax
    • The flat tax confuses tax reform with temporary tax reduction and makes both twice as hard
    • The flat tax retains the entire income tax apparatus which erodes as quickly as you can say, “tax bill”

    FairTaxers could advance these truthful points without resorting to bigotry associated with a cultic religious organization. However, for the most part, FairTax supporters have chosen not to attack the flat tax, but rather accentuate the commonalities between the plans - despite the above-noted differences. The reason is that, in the battle for tax reform, the real enemy is our current system.

    Income tax advocates look down upon the articles of Bruce Bartlett with smug chortling, as Bruce is doing their work for them. The IRS and the liberals who want an income tax to ensure (1) taxes can be raised without the American people knowing it, and (2) wealth can be redistributed from the middle class to the poor, do not even need to fight us - we’re killing ourselves!

    Perhaps Mr. Bartlett believes that the flat tax will help elect Republicans, effect tax reform, and provide tax cuts; however, the real effect of his criticism is to divide conservatives, to delay serious national consideration of tax reform, and to fertilize the roots of the income tax.

    ( Source )

  37. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I’ve sent the message to my elected reps about supporting the “Fair Tax”. Do that, rather than just talking about it here! Stir the pot! It REALLY sounds like a good idea!