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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » What Fourth Amendment?
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Hat Tip to LC Mrs. M-ITT™ for the linkage AND warning, as I’d still be cleaning chunks of brain matter from the keyboard, and I sure can’t afford to lose anymore. Sorry for the length, it was just too deserving of a thorough fisking, nay begging for one.

Boston, being the bastion of liberalism that it is, decides to cast aside that pesky warrant thing and go right to throwing it’s doors wide-open to searches for weapons. After all, it’s for the chilllrrren and keeping those evil guns that the gang-bangers always seem to have at hand, from going on autonomous killing-sprees. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are living, breathing documents, subject to penumbras and just about whatever a black-robed wearing tyrant says right?

So, we here at Teh Rott Management submit for your consideration, the following:

SPEW WARNINGS are IN EFFECT !!!

Police to search for guns in homes City program depends on parental consent

Boston police are launching a program that will call upon parents in high-crime neighborhoods to allow detectives into their homes, without a warrant, to search for guns in their children’s bedrooms. [Emph Mine]

Any numbers of things come to my mind about this. The first being the likelihood of any contraband found during a consensual search will always be questioned in court, without a specific written “Consent to Search” boilerplate document. Chances are the evidence obtained will be suppressed. Next item, “Plain-View Doctrine”. Once the consent to enter the residence is given, the police are permitted to seize any and all contraband that is reasonably visible. So dad or mom, just forgot to remove the crack-stem from the coffee table, and voila, it’s seized, mom and/or dad arrested and the kids go to Child Abductive Services. Call it the “Law of Unintended Consequences” or Bad Karma. You can’t pick and chose with constitutional law. Or worse yet the little goblin-in-training isn’t all that keen about surrendering it’s favorite gat quite yet and decides to “give it” to the man one round at a time. Shit Storm Ensues.

The program, which is already raising questions about civil liberties, is based on the premise that parents are so fearful of gun violence and the possibility that their own teenagers will be caught up in it that they will turn to police for help, even in their own households.

They’re YOUR kids you wastes of protoplasm that just happened to propagate. If you’re too stupid to keep an eye on what’s in your kid’s room and what to do about it don’t expect the gubmint to swoop in and fix your problem without direct and immediate bad consequences to you. Let’s think about this very carefully, something the liberal GFW crowd is singularly unable to do. Were talking inner city here, the majority of the kids that might actually possess guns, won’t be in school to begin with and furthermore whoever is at ‘home’ (if at all) for them is about as likely to cooperate with the police, as Rosie would part with her favorite V-12 turbo-charged vibrator. Besides the kid will be packing the gun, not hiding it in a shoebox under his bed you simpering, simians. Of course, once the police have left (I’m sure they’ll blend right in with the plainclothes) the local gangs get to use the place for target practice. It doesn’t take rocket science to realize what’s going to happen to the ’snitch” and he/she and the home WILL be considered as such.

In the next two weeks, Boston police officers who are assigned to schools will begin going to homes where they believe teenagers might have guns. The officers will travel in groups of three, dress in plainclothes to avoid attracting negative attention, and ask the teenager’s parent or legal guardian for permission to search. If the parents say no, police said, the officers will leave.

We should hope so, it’s a consensual search and if they’re denied they’ll leave, BUT if they already have PC to search, wouldn’t you expect the police have a duty to apply for a warrant anyway? Meanwhile, Ma and Pa are busy destroying any evidence that they or Junior might have about the residence to avoid the Family Plan Paddy Wagon Ride™.

If officers find a gun, police said, they will not charge the teenager with unlawful gun possession, unless the firearm is linked to a shooting or homicide.

Yet another abrogation of duty to act. A minor is NOT allowed to be in possession of the weapon, period. What do they expect the police finding a loaded Glock in a 15 year olds’ room to do? Give them a stern look, followed by a serious finger wagging?

The program was unveiled yesterday by Police Commissioner Edward F. Davis in a meeting with several community leaders.

In the real world, Davis would be a “Former” police commissioner before unveiling such a plan, considering it violates at least a half-dozen state and federal laws that I can think of on face-value. We’ll assign it a Corrie Value of at least 20.

“I just have a queasy feeling anytime the police try to do an end run around the Constitution,” said Thomas Nolan, a former Boston police lieutenant who now teaches criminology at Boston University. “The police have restrictions on their authority and ability to conduct searches. The Constitution was written with a very specific intent, and that was to keep the law out of private homes unless there is a written document signed by a judge and based on probable cause. Here, you don’t have that.”

And I might add Loo, what police are required to do during the execution of a proper warrant and it ain’t restricted to the kid’s room.

Critics said they worry that some residents will be too intimidated by a police presence on their doorstep to say no to a search.

Intimidated or worried that they’ll be the ones “mugging with the goblin’s finest bracelets” on Crime TV? Again, we’re talking for the most part, urban areas where any sign of cooperation with the police guarantees retribution from the local gangs.

“Our biggest concern is the notion of informed consent,” said Amy Reichbach, a racial justice advocate at the American Civil Liberties Union. “People might not understand the implications of weapons being tested or any contraband being found.”

Now there’s a first for me, agreeing with the Anal Chancre’s Licking Union…Been There, Done That and lost. It’s amazing how quickly ‘informed consent’ turns into, “I don’t recall the police telling me that part” on the stand.

But Davis said the point of the program, dubbed Safe Homes, is to make streets safer, not to incarcerate people.

No matter how obtuse, contorted and just plain assisnine, all gun-grabbing programs by the liberal definition are ‘just’ to make us safer. The cops show up in the ‘hood, remove the weapons from the freshly minted ’snitch’. Two days later, police return with, crime-scene tape and body bags. A week later a civil-suit against the City of Boston, Boston PD, et-al, for a gazillion dollars in a civil rights suit finishes up the scenario.

“This isn’t evidence that we’re going to present in a criminal case,” said Davis, who met with community leaders yesterday to get feedback on the program. “This is a seizing of a very dangerous object. . . .

Lost on Mr. Davis entirely is the concept that seizure can only apply to something possessed or occupied by a person. But then he did make the gun quasi-sentient by characterizing it pro forma as something dangerous. Again, piss on the legal system. We’re still operating under the Fourth Amendment and assumed State Constitutions here, seizure must be based upon probable cause and in connection with a warrant with some specific exceptions. I see the GFWs waving their hands wildly about and holding their breath. A firearm may or may not be contraband and therefore subject (or not) to seizure without warrant. It’s a matter of context and the police are thoroughly trained to understand this. It’s too bad GFW Police Commissioners in Boston don’t have the same training, but we wouldn’t expect them to be, after all it’s the boys in blue that will be getting shafted by the same ACLU when the shit hits the rotating, oscillating air-moving device.

“I understand people’s concerns about this, but the mothers of the young men who have been arrested with firearms that I’ve talked to are in a quandary,” he said. “They don’t know what to do when faced with the problem of dealing with a teenage boy in possession of a firearm. We’re giving them an option in that case.”

More chickens coming home to roost, notice it’s only ‘mother’ facing the issue. 40 years of liberal policy removing the need for a male figure in the family and 9 year olds in our cities are packing heat. I will however in the ever-present benevolence of the Empire offer you a simple solution for your out of control young criminal recidivist—-Stop watching Oprah long enough to call 9-1-1 and let them know that your 13 year old is hanging out in da’ ‘hood carrying a 9mm. In other words get off your ass, put down the stem and start parenting. Don’t expect your fellow citizens to ante-up their hard-earned, confiscated tax-dollars on idiotic, feel-good liberal policies to do the job for you. They can’t and won’t.

But some activists questioned whether the program would reduce the number of weapons on the street.

Please allow me to answer the perplexing question, it WON’T. Being a classic librul plan to “Save The World” the opposite intent will always prevail. Few kids will be willing to admit they posses a firearm, and the ones that do will just relocate them for safe-keeping away from the house, conveniently with their pals.

A criminal whose gun is seized can quickly obtain another, said Jorge Martinez, executive director of Project Right, who Davis briefed on the program earlier this week.

No shit George and exactly how much do they pay executive directors at your project? Damn, wish I would’ve stayed in Kollege so I could make such intellectual pronouncements.

“There is still an individual who is an impact player who is not going to change because you’ve taken the gun from the household,” he said.

Umm, I thought the idea was supposed to take guns away from the kid. Silly me, it’s actually to take guns away from everywhere, period.

The program will focus on juveniles 17 and younger and is modeled on an effort started in 1994 by the St. Louis Police Department, which stopped the program in 1999 partly because funding ran out.

Liberalspeak for the taxpayers decided they were being fleeced and the “Promised Gun Free Utopia” wasn’t happening.

Police said they will not search the homes of teenagers they suspect have been involved in shootings or homicides and who investigators are trying to prosecute.

“In a case where we have investigative leads or there is an impact player that we know has been involved in serious criminal activity, we will pursue investigative leads against them and attempt to get into that house with a search warrant, so we can hold them accountable,” Davis said.

Umm another question from this Imperial Correspondent, Mr. Davis. Isn’t being 17 and having a firearm in your possession already a crime and as such, by definition, all the kids in your program should be under criminal investigation? *crickets chirping*

Police will rely primarily on tips from neighbors. They will also follow tips from the department’s anonymous hot line and investigators’ own intelligence to decide what doors to knock on. A team of about 12 officers will visit homes in four Dorchester and Roxbury neighborhoods: Grove Hall, Bowdoin Street and Geneva Avenue, Franklin Hill and Franklin Field, and Egleston Square.

Expect thousands and thousands of those tips from said neighborhoods. You might get a few though, but send the S.W.A.T. on those calls, anyone having the displeasure of being in those areas (and I have) will know that like as not, the tip will be an invitation to an ambush.

If drugs are found, it will be up to the officers’ discretion whether to make an arrest, but police said modest amounts of drugs like marijuana will simply be confiscated and will not lead to charges.

“A kilo of cocaine would not be considered modest,” said Elaine Driscoll, Davis’s spokeswoman. “The officers that have been trained have been taught discretion.”

Thank you Elaine. I was really having a hard time with the concept of ‘nuisance quantity’. But it was a few orders of magnitude less than a Kilo.

The program will target young people whose parents are either afraid to confront them or unaware that they might be stashing weapons, said Davis, who has been trying to gain support from community leaders for the past several weeks.

One of the first to back him was the Rev. Jeffrey L. Brown, cofounder of the Boston TenPoint Coalition, who attended yesterday’s meeting.

“What I like about this program is it really is a tool to empower the parent,” he said. “It’s a way in which they can get a hold of the household and say, ‘I don’t want that in my house.’ ”

Bzzzt…sorry Reverend, the way to empower parents is to make them actually, you know be parents. Don’t expect the government to piss on various constitutional protections, guarantees and a host of other factors making a program like this a sure-fire disaster, along with a waste of money, better spent with aggressive street-level policing to fix the issue.

Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley, whose support was crucial for police to guarantee there would be no prosecution, also agreed to back the initiative. “To me it’s a preventive tool,” he said.

*coughbullshitcough* You betcha Danny Boy, ignore your sworn duty on this one and we guarantee you won’t have to spend your life savings on defending yourself from the plaintiffs the next time you get a beef about violation of some scumbag’s ‘rights’.

Boston police officials touted the success of the St. Louis program’s first year, when 98 percent of people approached gave consent and St. Louis police seized guns from about half of the homes they searched.

That would be the same program that was so successful that it was canceled after 5 years, you did just tell us that right? We aren’t that ADD riddled.

St. Louis police reassured skeptics by letting them observe searches, said Robert Heimberger, a retired St. Louis police sergeant who was part of the program.

Did Sgt. Heimberger carry a note signed by the entire St. Louis PD? I think the good Sarge lost what we call in these parts a “Duck Job” and now makes a living traveling about touting the great St. Looie gun-grabbing program of 1994.

“We had parents that invited us back, and a couple of them nearly insisted that we take keys to their house and come back anytime we wanted,” he said.

And beachfront property in New Mexico remains available for sale.

But the number of people who gave consent plunged in the next four years, as the police chief who spearheaded the effort left and department support fell, according to a report published by the National Institute of Justice.

Do tell? Was that the other reason why the program was canceled, not mentioned previously with the funding loss? Perhaps put more succinctly, it was an abject failure because the people decided they didn’t want to get pinched along with the kriminal-yutes.

Support might also have flagged because over time police began to rely more on their own intelligence than on neighborhood tips, the report said.

Heimberger said the program also suffered after clergy leaders who were supposed to offer help to parents never appeared.

“I became frustrated when I’d get the second, or third, or fourth phone call from someone who said, ‘No one has come to talk to me,’ ” he said. Residents “lost faith in the program and that hurt us.”

Bit off a bit more than you could chew eh? I’ll stick with my previous statement. Snitching ain’t really a good thing, if you intended to stay in the ‘hood AND maintain your normal biological processes intact. Besides, good, solid police work, assuming you have the right cops doing the work will always be more effective than chasing tip-line calls, in this area of criminal enterprise.

Boston police plan to hold neighborhood meetings to inform the public about the program. Police are also promising follow-up visits from clergy or social workers, and they plan to allow the same scrutiny that St. Louis did.

“We want the community to know what we’re doing,” Driscoll said.

Absolutely, you might even have special identifying signs on the ‘cooperating’ households and kids. Standard Bull’s Eye Rings would do quite nicely.

Ronald Odom - whose son, Steven, 13, was fatally shot last month as he walked home from basketball practice - was at yesterday’s meeting and said the program is a step in the right direction. “Everyone talks about curbing violence,” he said, following the meeting. “. . . This is definitely a head start.”

We all want to see a curb in violence, it’s just that we’re sick of the never-ending panacea of getting rid of all those eeevil firearms, at the cost of our rights is the only way to go.

It didn’t work in St. Louis, so we’ll try it one more time in Boston.

38 Responses to “What Fourth Amendment?”
  1. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    What the fuck are these people smoking???


    ^shaking my head^

    Never mind, forget I asked that…

  2. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    I saw this article first thing this morning and it took me an hour to stop seeing red. :em08: :em98:

    This country has always had a gun culture. Every single home had at least one, and generally every single person in that home knew how to use it. Now why is it that we don’t hear of kids, stoners, nutjobs, and illegals/Hadjis going apeshit and mowing down dozens of people daily and hourly from our history books? Why is it that we didn’t have mass shootings until mid 20th century? It’s NOT because guns suddenly made a surprise appearance. It’s NOT that guns suddenly became sentient beings and rose up and began walking around, and it’s for damn sure because they started grabbing innocent bystanders and taking them on involuntary killing sprees.

    It’s because we have allowed now at least three to four generations to grow up dependent on Gubmint handouts. We have allowed morals to go out the window. Women are encouraged to kick the father of their children out of the house, while demanding child support (along with that Welfare check and increased payments with each child that said female manages to get a new man to help her squirt out every nine months). Parents continue to turn over their responsibilities to the Publik Skool Sistem and then wonder why the freaking hell that their children are drug addicts, gang members, and killers. NOW….they are being led to believe that it’s for their Chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllllrreeennnn’s safety that they willingly give up their CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS in order for the first step in the breakdown of our rights to occur with a minimum of brainless, helpless Gubmit dependent zombies catching on to the fact.

    Stop blaming the gotdamn guns and get off your freakingly lazy asses and BE THE PARENTS, and tell the Boston Police Commissioner to go fuck himself with a very rusty fence post!!!!!!!!!!!!! :em71: :em98:

  3. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I know I just glanced at this, so I am sure there is a lot I missed, but the first thing that stood out was that the cops weren’t just going around kicking doors in — they were first asking for a consent to search in lieu of a warrant.

    I am not seeing the problem. If the parents say “fuck off and die, copper”, then the cops can’t search unless they get a warrant.

    As far as your “plain view” scenario goes: I am not sure I want any child living in a crack house. If the parents are engaged in criminal or dangerous activity, then it is certainly no place for children to be. If the parents are stupid enough to first be doing illegal activity such as using illegal drugs and then secondly allowing the cops in to look around without first picking up after themselves, then they deserve to have their asses hauled away.

    But more importantly, how is it that it requires the cops to police these people’s children? It sounds like the parents themselves are negligent in their parental duties if they can’t keep control over their children. When MY kids were still minors and living under MY roof, I knew more about their possessions and their lives than they did. It was my business to know, and it would have been a VERY cold day in hell that something ever got past me.

    For the record, I never would let cops come into my house. They are like vampires: you are safe as long as you don’t invite them in.

  4. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ-The brick background is NOT making it. The contrast between the text and background is pulling my eyes out of their sockets.

  5. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ-The brick background is NOT making it. The contrast between the text and background is pulling my eyes out of their sockets.

    I lost the theme for a moment. It is back again

  6. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Thanks, that brief experience was painful.

    :em41:

  7. Deathknyte Comment by Deathknyte

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Good. They grey on grey is hard to interpret.

  8. Unregistered Pingback by Don Surber » Blog Archive » Boston to launch warrantless searches for guns

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    […] counterpart, Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler: “They’re YOUR kids you wastes of protoplasm that just happened to propagate. If you’re […]

  9. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Deej,

    Would it be possible to add a home button to the bottom of the screen…like near the submit comment button? When these pages get LONG, it would be nice not to have to scroll up to get “home.”

  10. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Deej,

    Whatever you’re doing…umm…it ain’t working. The comments are running off the bottom of the page…and for some reason I am not showing in the Trinkets list. Bad enough that I can’t have a flag….but no trinkets??? :em98:

    Good idea about the Home button Skye…I don’t like having to scroll all the way to the top to get to it either.

  11. ACLPoo Comment by ACLPoo

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I know this is a serious issue, but I can’t stop laughing - Rosie’s V12 vibrator? Jeebus, that’s a funny image. Gross, yes, but funny.

  12. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Bad enough that I can’t have a flag….but no trinkets??? :em98:

    Geeze…ya got a hat tip…and you want trinkets, too? :em95:

  13. evilned Comment by evilned

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Ok, since I live in NH and have some familiarity with Massachusetts, (My family escaped back in ‘63), and with Boston, this plan does not surprise me.

    Massachusetts is a virtual socialist police state. You have a judicial system that is made up of people who have never worked in the “Dreaded Private Sector” and got the position by buying it, Oh, I mean “donating to political campaigns, a governor who’s nickname is Coupe Deval, Legislators and city councilors who make the Mafia look honest and a mayor whose grasp of the English language, (Or any language for that matter), is tenuous at best.

    Until recently if someone broke into your home you had to leave and let the crook steal everything you own. You had no right to protect yourself. Getting and carrying a gun legally is almost impossible. The only people with rights are what most of us call criminals.

    The situation in that state is so bad that it is losing population. Major companies are starting to pull up stakes and move to friendlier regions, such as Cuba or North Korea.

    At least here in NH, we still have decent laws and criminals know that they stand a good chance of becoming involuntary organ donors if they break into someone’s house.

    Now if we could just ship all them commies that moved up here back over the border where they belong…

    Oh yeah, take a look at what the People’s Republic of Cambridge did to the Boyscouts when they tried to collect stuff for the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1045046

  14. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Amd of you do not consent to a search you are deemed suspect. You’d have to be incredibly naive to believe anything else. At least in the world I know. You would be better off hauled off cuffed then labeled a snitch. When I was in high school I had a gun in my bedroom, a twenty two bolt action, five shot clip, long rifle hollow points, the clip kept in my desk. My mother also had a rifle in her bedroom…. I remember it with great fondness. These sick freaks choose, and I do mean choose, to see the gun as the problem rather than the permissive attitudes they themselves have formented, along with a lack of personal accountable due to your mom hating your skateboard when you were a kid. The perfect out rather than face their demented, failed social policies. Gawd, this makes me sick!

  15. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I vote that the United States withdraw from Massachusetts. It’s obviously a quagmire and we’ll only get caught in a street war if we continue to stay. They don’t want our help and are incapable of forming or living under a Democratic Society.

  16. Unregistered Comment by roguetek

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    BWahaaahaaaa!

    Living in Maine, we have to put up with a -lot- of mass-o-two-shits exports. tourists, using southern maine as a ‘bedroom community’ and other such insults.

    Sink you fuckers, sink.

    :em01:

  17. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Whatever you’re doing…umm…it ain’t working. The comments are running off the bottom of the page…and for some reason I am not showing in the Trinkets list. Bad enough that I can’t have a flag….but no trinkets???

    I don’t know why that is. I tested in in my XP/Firefox machine and the comments work just fine. I did remove four of the emoticons because they might have been screwing up the layout. I wish the browser sniff on these comment would tell me what resolution your machine is using, that way I would have a better idea what is happening.

    As far as the Trinkets go, blame Misha. I had it set up to record EVERYONE who made a comment during the current day. But yesterday the list got to be pretty long, so he had me shorten it. So I shortened it to fifteen then ten then fifteen then ten and that is where it ended up. So if you want to get to the top ten people commenting, you have to make more comments. But I see you broke into the top ten just a while ago. But understand that you might get bumped by someone making more comments than you.

    It is a competitive world. :em01:

    and a mayor whose grasp of the English language, (Or any language for that matter), is tenuous at best.

    :em01: [Okay, I will bite my tongue and not comment on the obvious response I could make…]

    [but it hurts when I bite like this]

    [oh the sacrifices I must make!]

    The situation in that state is so bad that it is losing population. Major companies are starting to pull up stakes and move to friendlier regions, such as Cuba or North Korea.

    Yet that silly little thing called a census tells us that Massachusetts’ population is growing. And what major companies are moving to Cuba or North Korea?

    There are a lot of companies moving their labor forces to Red China, and other areas where they can get cheap labor for extremely cheap. But that has a lot to do with our allowing these companies to do so without penalizing them for moving the jobs away from here.

    Oh yeah, take a look at what the People’s Republic of Cambridge did to the Boyscouts when they tried to collect stuff for the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    My roommate’s brother is getting ready to re-deploy to Iraq. (his fourth tour) He brought us ten cases of Girl Scout cookies that the local girl scouts donated to the base with the idea that they would be shipped to Iraq and Afghanistan. Apparently, the military won’t send Girl Scout cookies like that. Besides, what the hell do I want ten cases of Girl Scout cookies?

    Amd of you do not consent to a search you are deemed suspect.

    Good, then let them go to the court and obtain a warrant. The fact that you refused to consent is not by itself probable cause to issue a search warrant — and it would open up a whole new can of beans if the search didn’t net any results. Besides, it would only happen that one time to me before I had a restraining order issued against the local police department.

    Like I said, this is more or less a bullying tactic based on the ignorance of the people being asked to consent. I suspect that many of these people are immigrants — illegal or otherwise — and do not understand that they have the right to force the cops to go to court for a warrant.

  18. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    This is a no-brainer. Meet ‘em at the door with guns in hand. Tell them once, politiely that they aren’t welcome. End of story. Next.

  19. LC#2112 Comment by LC#2112

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    Damn ! I just posted an incredibly long and verbose rant….I think it killed a server or something (!) because I had ‘fatal error’ all over my page…So to sum up my feelings I ditto Blackiswhite, #19 I see nothing illegal in that comment– nay, rather adherence to the Constitution is all… And the Socialists who wish to take control are fearful of us, the educated populace who know our rights…

  20. Unregistered Comment by Paul006

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    The Constitution and Bill of Rights are living, breathing documents, subject to penumbras and just about whatever a black-robed wearing tyrant says right?

    Yeah, and evidently they’re also subject to the wild misrepresentations of ill-informed bloggers. The Fourth Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches; it has never been understood to prohibit consensual searches.

    You get to decide whether the police enter your home without a warrant. You don’t get to decide whether they enter mine. Step off.

  21. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Paul006- Your panties are showing…….

    Wild Misrepresentations by Ill-Informed Bloggers

    I suppose reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit and I went to great lengths explaining consensual searches and how they can be used but leave a LOT to be desired if contraband is found, with the ‘informed consent’ card being played in court, concurrent with a motion to suppress.

    As to the ill-informed part, I attended a state police academy, graduated with honors and had the pleasure of being taught constitutional law by a trooper that just happened to have his JD with 10 years of practice before he decided it was more fun to put handcuffs on goblins than to play with them in court. By the way I aced every exam on that subject.

    Following that I had 19 years on the streets, learning the more practical side of the law. Along with additional training programs presented by the Chief State’s Attorney on Constitutional Law in the field. I picked up some things here and there about how the law works in real life, we knuckle-dragging KKKonservatives do manage to learn on occasion.

    Moreover, at least ONE of our LCs in the above comments is a practicing attorney, he didn’t seem to have any problem with the post. Amazing how a n00b can show up and poop on the carpet and think they’ll get any respect.

    But since Paulie-Waulie sez I’m uninformed I suppose I am. You wanna debate the subject more? BRING.IT.ON

  22. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    IRT Post 22….LMAO ….Dayum JB…Tha’s gonna leave a mark!

  23. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    No good will come of this stupid legislation no matter how innocuous its supporters try to make it sound.

    #22…
    :em58: Fantastic beatdown! :em69:

  24. Unregistered Comment by Paul006

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    JB at 22:

    Paul006- Your panties are showing…….

    And your evasiveness is showing.

    I went to great lengths explaining consensual searches and how they can be used …

    You also went to great lengths to suggest that Boston’s proposed program of consensual searches is unconstitutional on its face. That inaccurate suggestion is what I was responding to. The “pesky warrant thing,” as you put it, is inapposite when the search is consensual. In your reply to me, you elide this point, as well you might. You’re wrong on the law.

  25. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Paul006,

    I should warn you…unless you are very prepared to fight with the big dogs, you’d best stay on the porch. B.C., JB, Jaybear, Misha, Mrs. M., and Heather all could rip you a new one without even breaking a sweat.

    Don’t say you weren’t warned…

  26. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    This program doesn’t deal with the realities of the ‘hood. While needing a warrant sounds good on it’s face, or in a classrom, on the street it can prove the difference between life and death. What I remember from younger days was one notion…either you were cool…or you weren’t. I speak of the street mentality. You have the cops come to your house, kick the door down, throw a warrant in your face and haul you off cuffed. No problem, you are still one of the ‘hood. You invite officers in, you’ve juat blown every connection you or your friends ever had, you are now suspect, you family could become targets, especially your parents, you are damaged goods with blood in the water. You are now a target or at best a throwaway kill. And worst of all….you are known to be unarmed. We can slap warrants all around as we wish, picking at technicalities to our hearts content. But on the street it’s a different matter entirely. This I know from experience.

  27. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Paul006-

    Evading what? I didn’t suggest at any point that a consensual search was unconstitutional. I pointed out that contraband/evidence seized under a consensual search is often suppressed based on the manner in which consent to search is given. Regardless of whether consent to search or a warrant is used, Fourth Amendment protections are still in effect period. IOW- You don’t fully waive the right to terminate the consent to search at any point and ask the police to desist. With the exception of circumstances where evidence might be destroyed by those in possession of it (such as in a motor vehicle), in most cases prosecutors insist that once observed, the consensual search is inappropriate (especially if a felony charge would likely result from seizure) and should be stopped, the area secured and a formal warrant applied for, BEFORE proceeding. In the case of motor vehicles, an inventory of the contents is taken, the vehicle is impounded, a chain of custody initiated and a complete search is conducted with a warrant in hand.

    The point lost in your pointy head is that this program is a foolish waste of time, money and requires some twisting of the Constitutional protections as written and a lot of luck, to be of any use. FURTHERMORE, unintended consequences could put anyone stupid enough to cooperate at risk of their own lives. It was an abject failure in St. Louis, why would the GFW crowd in Beantown believe it would work for them?

    Next Item, please point out to me where I said the police did NOT have to leave if you refuse to allow them entry for a consensual search. The point at hand, is that if the police have sufficient reason to believe that a domicile contains contraband AND that reason meets the standards of “Probable Cause” they would be foolish to execute a consensual search. That fact, prima facie makes the program foolish.

    You’re wrong on the law.

    And you’ve watched too many episodes of CSI, JAGoff and whatever other fairy-tale legal/police shows you watch on TV.

    Now go back to your bowl of Cap’n Crunch and the Cartoon Channel and enjoy yourself, instead of being a chew-toy here.

    …mheh….

  28. hitnrun Comment by hitnrun

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    If they really want to start a program to get the guns out of kid’s rooms, they don’t need to do it under the auspices of the police.

    What ever happened to the “neighborhood watch?” There’s no reason why they can’t organize a group (a pack?) of busybodies, CAS Nazis, and other assorted meddlers - hell, even off-duty police officers - to go exercise their Gestapo-ic searches in the neighborhoods where they feel the childhood firearm situation is at saturation level.

    If the parents approve, and they come to the agreement beforehand that they won’t search for other contraband, there’s no problem. Why do the police have to be involved if they’re not there to enforce the law?

  29. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    unintended consequences could put anyone stupid enough to cooperate at risk of their own lives.

    Amen, JB. Precisely. I’ve seen it happen, usually resulting in untended gravesites…..unintended consequences. Yet these courtroom crawlers refuse to see it for what it is. Sometimes I think it’s deliberate, they knowing full well what may come down, then martyring these street dead to one of their causes. These liberals don’t give a shit about these peoiple, they use them. Nothing more than feel good liberalism, resolving nothing and creating more problems, often putting police officers at risk, royally pissing me off. It may explain why I own four guns, one loaded at the ready, perhaps soon to be five, my wife having her eye on this beautiful 9 mm Springfield. In this small town I live in, the cops are my friends, I’ve invited them in to show them my forty-fives…as friends. They have told me what the law says regarding self-defense. I’d likle to see some of the people advocating such policies have to live by them…or under them. That would make for a good blood ‘n guts movie…….

  30. Ten-Ten Comment by Ten-Ten

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    No tickey, no laundry.

  31. Unregistered Comment by Paul006

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    JB at 28:

    I didn’t suggest at any point that a consensual search was unconstitutional.

    Oh, yes you did. I’ll quote your words back to you:

    Boston, being the bastion of liberalism that it is, decides to cast aside that pesky warrant thing and go right to throwing it’s doors wide-open to searches for weapons. After all, it’s for the chilllrrren and keeping those evil guns that the gang-bangers always seem to have at hand, from going on autonomous killing-sprees. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are living, breathing documents, subject to penumbras and just about whatever a black-robed wearing tyrant says right?

    You wrote that, did you not? And when you wrote it, you had in mind Boston’s plan for consensual searches, did you not? Accordingly, your statements admit to only one fair reading, namely that even a consensual search requires a warrant. No other reading explains either your reference to that “pesky warrant thing,” or your derisive intimation that Boston has converted the Bill of Rights into a “living, breathing” document. You implied — wrongly — that Boston’s proposed plan of consensual searches is unconstitutional on its face.

    Now, in a manner reminiscent of Hillary Clinton, you crawfish away from your unsupportable suggestion, and concede, as you must, that consensual searches do not require a warrant.

    My work here is done. Have a good day.

  32. Unregistered Pingback by Cigar Intelligence Agency » Blog Archive » What Fourth Amendment

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    […] I was going to post on this earlier, but why reinvent the wheel when it’s already been done so well by Jack Boot over at the Rottweiler. […]

  33. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Boston, being the bastion of liberalism that it is, decides to cast aside that pesky warrant thing and go right to throwing it’s doors wide-open to searches for weapons.

    And exactly how would you characterize a program that develops information and has three plain-clothes officers knocking on doors of suspected homes and requesting a consensual search? Can you say intimidation and/or coercion in an attempt to make an end run around the 4th without doing the actual work? The entire premise of the program is based on that, playing off of legitimate community fears with a program that among other things requires police officers to abrogate their sworn duties by NOT making an arrest if an illegal weapon is found. They make it easier for themselves by disregarding standard police procedure, i.e. developing intelligence, taking sworn statements and applying for proper warrants. Why, because it’s a feel-good liberal policy that will do fuck-all for the real problem, merely a ’show-piece’ without any real commitment to solving the problem. But isn’t that the true hallmark of all liberal solutions? It’s irrelevant of the actual efficacy of a given proposal as long as it makes a nice sound-bite for the plebeian masses.

    My statements, and it’s too bad that once again you can’t parse the legalese is that consensual searches are of limited and suspect value for any subsequent legal proceedings. If they were serious, they would show up with a valid warrant that can’t get the door slammed in their faces and arresting any/all persons they have PC to believe have committed crimes. The point is my little clue-deficient troll is that consensual searches in the cause of reducing the number of weapons on the street is a circle-jerk. I’m sure you’re familiar with, and a regular participant in those.

    The article isn’t a discussion of the validity or legality of the searches under the Fourth Amendment, it’s about the program’s foolishness which I notice you chose to ignore. Instead you play the liberal game, take a contextual (or poetic in this case) microscopic point and spin it into something altogether different, as the macroscopic view of the particular statement in contention doesn’t fit your desired agenda.

    Consensual searches have a legitimate, legal and valid, though limited place in Law Enforcement and this is NOT one of them.

    You show me one clearly articulated statement in the above post that characterizes consensual searches as unconstitutional. Your first one doesn’t hold the shit between your ears.

    I’ll stand by the activist bench treating the Constitution as a living, breathing document. Take a look at the bullshit rulings from the 9th Circus Court, the egregious ruling in Kelo v. New London and any other you care to look at.

    My work here is done. Have a good day.

    Your work consisting of circular logic, supported by a statement that just happens to be non-existent. Have another bong hit.

    Feel free to come back for further thrashings anytime, just bring something more to the table to debate than self-inferred, gossamer conclusions.

  34. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    The point lost in your pointy head is that this program is a foolish waste of time, money and requires some twisting of the Constitutional protections as written and a lot of luck, to be of any use. FURTHERMORE, unintended consequences could put anyone stupid enough to cooperate at risk of their own lives.

    Amen. And Nobody can seriously suggest that the money alone couldn’t be better spent on something else.

    I think I am phrasing it differently than JB, but you appear to be in dire ned of small words, if not pictures drawn in crayon, Paul 006 (the first five must have been REALLY STUPID). The point is this, an acceptable ‘consensual” search is typified by agencies performing largely administrative functions, like when the state brand of OSHA shows up on a worksite, and checks for use of safety equipment, first aid training, etc.

    In contrast, only a socialist nany-statist asshat considers it reasonable for the local constabulatory to start showing up in your neighborhood and start knock on doors and asking if they can come in and “have a look around” on the off-chance that someone residing in the curtilage of your abode has contraband.

    I want them to show up at the scene of a car accident, or to prevent burglaries, robberies or other acts of mayhem. The idea that a group of first responders that is typically already taxed to its limits trying to “prevent” such act by showing up on my doorstep, more than likely in numbers, to ask for a look around, is offensive to any sensible person with more than three functioning brain cells.

    This is because we all know of examples where police have been “zealous” enough to stretch “consent” and other doctrines such a “plain view” to the point of breaking. That doesn’t even consider the tortured caselaw regarding who can give consent, and the conflicts between those who do and don’t want to give consent. Add in law enforcement that may not be too damn choosey about who can or can’t give consent when they hear a “yes” from across the threshold. If you think I exaggerate, pick up any criminal procedure book used in any law school today. The misuses of “Plain view”, “Knock and Announce”, “Hot Pursuit”, and other doctrines play out all the time. Only a fool would cede more powers to them in light of past blatant abuses. Especially when such powers lend themselves so easily to abuse and selective enforcement.

    All in all, it wasn’t a bad attempt to sit at the adult table, “Paul 006″, but when you start referring to people in the know who have done the work as “uninformed bloggers”, you had best expect to have a blowtorch turned your way. Now run along. I thing Grandma’s got a cookie for you.

  35. LC & IB GuyS Comment by LC & IB GuyS

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    Outstanding Post JB! (and one can just imagine seeing the wind quickly leaving Paul006’s sails after you whip out your “bona-fades” in comment #21) The only question is in the liberal/progressive/socialist scheme of things which Amendment is up next for a hit. And when do we finally get a “do over” (a mulligan for you golfing types) so we can get about the business of pruning the tree of liberty?

  36. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    we can get about the business of pruning the tree of liberty?

    Don’t forget the fertilization…

  37. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    “Pawie? Pawie?”

    Musta been a bigger wedgie than I thought. Mheh. :em93:

  38. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    which Amendment is up next for a hit.

    I keep my eye on number two……..and fight for it ferociously.