Strict Standards: Redefining already defined constructor for class wpdb in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/wp-db.php on line 57

Strict Standards: Redefining already defined constructor for class WP_Object_Cache in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/cache.php on line 384

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Page::start_lvl() should be compatible with Walker::start_lvl($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 541

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Page::end_lvl() should be compatible with Walker::end_lvl($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 541

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Page::start_el() should be compatible with Walker::start_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 541

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Page::end_el() should be compatible with Walker::end_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 541

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_PageDropdown::start_el() should be compatible with Walker::start_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 560

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Category::start_lvl() should be compatible with Walker::start_lvl($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 659

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Category::end_lvl() should be compatible with Walker::end_lvl($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 659

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Category::start_el() should be compatible with Walker::start_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 659

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Category::end_el() should be compatible with Walker::end_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 659

Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_CategoryDropdown::start_el() should be compatible with Walker::start_el($output) in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/classes.php on line 684

Strict Standards: Non-static method sem_admin_menu::init() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-content/plugins/sem-admin-menu/sem-admin-menu.php on line 358

Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method sem_admin_menu::ob_add_menu() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 164

Warning: ob_start(): non-static method sem_admin_menu::ob_add_menu_callback() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-content/plugins/sem-admin-menu/sem-admin-menu.php on line 86

Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method sem_admin_menu::kill_gzip() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59
Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Who You Gonna Believe?
Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::add_css() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 164

Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::add_js() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 164
You are viewing the Archives for 2007.......If you want the current page, CLICK HERE.......

Sorry, Bill, but there really is no better headline for this entry, so I’m just going to steal yours.

Since everybody’s talking about the NIE’s sudden discovery that the Iranian nuclear weapons program doesn’t exist anyway and has been stubbornly non-existent for four years now, we figured that we might as well say something too, but we’ll keep it short and sweet. We try not to waste too much electronic ink on self-evident displays of massive ignorance like that one.

We’re still waiting for the liberals to announce that the NIE’s latest is a bunch of bollocks that can’t be trusted, however. Isn’t that what they’ve been telling us about their (and the rest of the world’s intelligence agencies’) estimates about Saddam’s WMD programs? It’s almost as if they only believe the NIE when it happens to agree with their agenda. Besides, lest anybody throw the same charge at us, the pre-Iraqi Freedom estimate, we repeat, agreed with what pretty much every single intelligence agency in the world was saying at the time. This time? Not so much.

Over to you, Ehud Barak:

Defense Minister Ehud Barak said that he was familiar with the report that had been shown to him by US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates during the Annapolis peace summit last week.

“I am familiar with the American intelligence assessment,” Barak said following a meeting with Hungarian Chief of Staff Gen. Andras Havril. “Nevertheless, I say again that Iran is today a central threat on the world and the State of Israel.”

Could Ehud Barak be wrong? Of course he could, the NIE could be accurate, but when somebody’s pointing a gun at you and threatening to kill you, common sense dictates that you ought to take his word for it, rather than waiting to see if it’s just a toy gun.

And, besides, Bill says it so well that we can’t possibly improve on it:

Frankly, given that intelligence “estimates” in the United States have become political footballs - or worse, guided missiles launched by defensive bureaucracies at presidents they despise - I would tend to take Israeli intelligence a bit more seriously, given that for them, such estimates are a matter of life or death. [Emphasis ours — Emp.M]

62 Responses to “Who You Gonna Believe?”
  1. Kristopher, LC Comment by Kristopher, LC

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I can only hope that the next Republican President has the good sense to fire every last Clintonista still drawing a GSA paycheck.

    Bush’s greatest failure was in not ridding us of these imbeciles.

  2. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    sounds like they are trying to prove a negative. ” if we cant find it, it doesn’t exist” just dont do it for me.

  3. LC Draco Comment by LC Draco

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Check THIS out…

    U.S. Intel Possibly Duped by Iran

    Tuesday, December 4, 2007 9:38 AM

    By: Kenneth R. Timmerman Article Font Size

    A highly controversial, 150 page National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran’s nuclear programs was coordinated and written by former State Department political and intelligence analysts — not by more seasoned members of the U.S. intelligence community, Newsmax has learned.

    Its most dramatic conclusion — that Iran shut down its nuclear weapons program in 2003 in response to international pressure — is based on a single, unvetted source who provided information to a foreign intelligence service and has not been interviewed directly by the United States….

    You won’t see this in the MSM. As someone who works in the ‘community’, this stinks of backroom handshakes and political positioning. Since the surge in Iraq is working, I guess the Dhimmicrats need to find another angle.

    R.L.T.W.

  4. LC  MuscleDaddy Comment by LC MuscleDaddy

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Its most dramatic conclusion — that Iran shut down its nuclear weapons program in 2003 in response to international pressure — is based on a single, unvetted source who provided information to a foreign intelligence service and has not been interviewed directly by the United States….

    Sounds like a hard-hitting expose from The New Republic.

    - MuscleDaddy

  5. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    It’s almost as if they only believe the NIE when it happens to agree with their agenda.

    Jackpot! Someone give The Emperor a cigar please. Make that a Cuban cigar.

    Why are these demoasses so anxious to kneel and expose your country to every possible threat that’s out there!?!? The Party of Surrender, good name…

    They are the same clowns (and I don’t feel like laughing anymore) who would be “all surprised” to hear Israel just got nuked and, of course, “denounce” the perpretators once they have studied the world’s reaction to the attack. Then they’ll dump all over the same people who are now warning them of what’s coming for not “advising them of the threat”!

    Would be difficult for them to do the denouncing though… They’d have to wipe their good buddies’ jizz off their chins first.

    Traitorous swine, all.

  6. JanetMae Comment by JanetMae

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I was just listening to Rush Limbaugh a little while ago, talking about who these guys are, that wrote this report. Not very credible.

  7. JanetMae Comment by JanetMae

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Test

  8. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    sounds like they are trying to prove a negative. ” if we cant find it, it doesn’t exist” just dont do it for me.

    Hmmm, the proving the negative rule was in effect from the very beginning of this administration. We told Saddam to give up something he didn’t have, and we are trying to tell Iran to give up a program that they gave up in 2003.

    We can’t just assume something is true when there is absolutely no evidence other than it could be true — even though there is no evidence.

    Iran has been seeking nuclear power since the 1970s when we tried to sell the Shah of Iran on the idea of nuclear power. They realized back then that the oil was eventually going to run out and that if they wanted to get out ahead of that eventual day, they were going to have to do something then.

    Nothing has changed between then and now except for the political landscape. Iran is not controlled by a puppet regime of the United States, but their need for electrical power is still growing and their supply of fossil fuel is depleting.

    Why did the Iranians have a nuclear weapons program to begin with, and why did they end it? Their true enemy was Saddam and they were trying to counter him. We took Saddam out in 2003 and either the “need” for such a weapon or the worry of a threat of attack from us caused them to end the program.

    It also helps to have people talking to the Iranian leaders as Russia, China and several of the other European countries have been doing.

    I can only hope that the next Republican President has the good sense to fire every last Clintonista still drawing a GSA paycheck.

    The next one will be in about nine years. :em01:

    Can you wait that long?

  9. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ

    We can’t just assume something is true when there is absolutely no evidence other than it could be true — even though there is no evidence.

    i agree DJ. what i was trying to say was you need to keep looking until you find evidence.

  10. jaybear Comment by jaybear

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Deej sez:

    and we are trying to tell Iran to give up a program that they gave up in 2003.

    You’re glowingly certain of that?… just because representatives of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards say they gave up the program we should buy that as credible? Using that logic I guess we should have believed the German spokesmen when they said there were no deaths camps eh?

    We can’t just assume something is true when there is absolutely no evidence other than it could be true — even though there is no evidence.

    So we have a maniac president of a terrorist supporting regime, who is actively seeking ICBM technology and nuclear material, and he has made statements about erasing Israel and parts of Europe with that technology….and we’re not supposed to take him at his word?

    Iran has been seeking nuclear power since the 1970s when we tried to sell the Shah of Iran on the idea of nuclear power. They realized back then that the oil was eventually going to run out and that if they wanted to get out ahead of that eventual day, they were going to have to do something then.

    Then tell them to educate their population in something other than hate and intolerance….educate them in things like engineering and architecture and chemistry. Then put them to work bringing this power on line.

    Why did the Iranians have a nuclear weapons program to begin with, and why did they end it? Their true enemy was Saddam and they were trying to counter him. We took Saddam out in 2003 and either the “need” for such a weapon or the worry of a threat of attack from us caused them to end the program.

    oh, they’re so afraid of us that they stopped making weapons??? so the VBIED’s and IED’s and shaped charge explosives that we find with Iranian fingerprints all over them are fakes eh?

    It also helps to have people talking to the Iranian leaders as Russia, China and several of the other European countries have been doing.

    not only talking to them but going to bat for them against sanctions in the UN and also supplying them with the “non-existant” nuclear technology…..

    The next one will be in about nine years.

    just about the time Iran comes on line with it’s first nuke too……

    Personally, I’m not naive enough to accept this report and I think all of the crap being spouted by the left and the msm will embolden Iran to continue it’s development, as I believe it never ended, it just went underground and out of sight…….it will be interesting to see how all of the iran apologists rationalize the mushroom clouds over Jerusalem….

  11. LC  MuscleDaddy Comment by LC MuscleDaddy

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Jay, Jay…

    You’re missing the most important point, here:

    DJ’s Narrative is that Bush Is Wrong!

    Statements by Iran’s President concerning ‘Wiping Israel Off The Map” (strange thing to say, when Iraq is his only real enemy) - or, for that matter, “We have X-number of centrifuges ready to go” - should never be acknowledged as indicators of a will or intent to obtain nuclear weapons!

    …because that would Contradict The Narrative!

    Besides - if it turns out that Deej is wrong, it really only means that the ChimpyMcBusHitlerBurtonVastRightWingZionistConspiracy would thereafter have to change its name to the ChimpyMcBusHitlerBurtonVastRightWingConspiracy.

    Which, of course, would not only give us plenty of lead-time in dealing with the actual threat, but also cut down on the printing costs for all those cards around the holidays!

    See? It’s a Win-Win, and the Narrative remains intact (since that glowing hole between Jordan & the Med would then just be another example of how Bush Is Wrong) !

    - MuscleDaddy

  12. Unregistered Comment by LC Roguetek

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    -NO- single source intelligence report is credible. None. Regardless of the value or position of the source.

    God himself could come down on a chariot of thunder and say Iran was clean as the driven snow, and standard operations would -still- be to get a corobberating opinion.

    This NIE is a -profound- violation of protocol. Something is broken.

    Deej, I have a serious question.

    What the -fuck- is wrong with your head?

    You go from smart to -stupid- in about .0005 seconds when bush is mentioned.

    You seem so goddamn desperate to make republicans look bad ( hey there’s plenty they actually -did- fuck up…) that you’ll grab anything, -anything- to smear anything that isnt a democrat.

    seriously, what’s up with that. Did larry craig give you a wide stance as a kid or something?

    because frankly, your responses have been so close to ‘troll’ as to make no difference.

  13. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    It’s almost as if they only believe the NIE when it happens to agree with their agenda.

    But, of course.

  14. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    You’re glowingly certain of that?…

    Reasonably so, yes. It is something that the experts have been telling us for a long time now.

    The thing is, we don’t know shit-all of what is going on in Iran because we aren’t engaged with them. Other nations are, and they are telling a totally different story than what we have been guessing at.

    Do you know what makes Imadinnerjacket and the Mullahs strong in Iran? The fact that we don’t communicate with them.

    Same goes with Cuba. Castro would have been jetisoned forty years ago if we would have just normalized relations with Cuba. Hell, it probably would have ended up being the fifty-first state.

  15. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    We told Saddam to give up something he didn’t have, and we are trying to tell Iran to give up a program that they gave up in 2003.

    We can’t just assume something is true when there is absolutely no evidence other than it could be true — even though there is no evidence.

    DJ, like RogueTek said. You are SO smart sometimes. Just brilliant. And then this. For everything we HAVE found(that the MSM refuses to print. Don’t ask me how I know, I can’t tell you) like the shells and warheads with chemicals still in them, like the missiles that had a hell of a lot more range than he was allowed to own, like the SQUADRON of Migs buried in the desert under the dunes, etc. Oh, you didn’t know about those? Sorry.

  16. jaybear Comment by jaybear

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Do you know what makes Imadinnerjacket and the Mullahs strong in Iran? The fact that we don’t communicate with them.

    not the fact that there are no free elections or that they kill or jail anyone who opposes them. noooo, they’re mad at us ‘cuz we’re stuck up and won’t invite them to the prom.

    But let’s all sing kumbayah, have a group fart and re-open our embassy so we can dialogue with them…….again:

  17. Obiter Dictum Comment by Obiter Dictum

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ says:

    Nothing has changed between then and now except for the political landscape. Iran is not controlled by a puppet regime of the United States, but their need for electrical power is still growing and their supply of fossil fuel is depleting.

    Hmmm, doesn’t quite jibe with Iran’s discovery of even more oil in recent years. It would be an angle the Iranians don’t make too much noise about because it isn’t quite true.

    Electricity - production:
    170.4 billion kWh (2005)
    Electricity - consumption:
    136.2 billion kWh (2005)
    Electricity - exports:
    2.761 billion kWh (2005)
    Electricity - imports:
    2.074 billion kWh (2005)
    Oil - production:
    3.979 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
    Oil - consumption:
    1.51 million bbl/day (2004 est.)
    Oil - exports:
    2.836 million bbl/day (2004 est.)
    Oil - imports:
    NA bbl/day
    Oil - proved reserves:
    138.4 billion bbl based on Iranian claims (2006 est.)

    With over 138 billion barrels in reserve, at thier current rate of production, it would be over 95 years before they ran out. I’d put my faith in technology coming up with ways to tap into alternative energy processes in a few decades that could possibly make fossil fuels a cheap alternative.
    Then Iran could eat their crude for all I care.
    He then says:

    It also helps to have people talking to the Iranian leaders as Russia, China and several of the other European countries have been doing.

    Those conversations were mostly about weapons purchases and reactor contracts.
    Yeah, I know…Why can’t we all just get along :em95:
    Right…

  18. Unregistered Comment by LC Wes, Imperial Mohel

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ on Iran’s alleged abandoning of its nuclear program:

    It is something that the experts have been telling us for a long time now.

    Uh-huh. Right, Deej. Would that be the same experts who told us that Saddam was just kidding about invading Kuwait right up to the point Saddam’s tanks pulled up to the Kuwaiti presidential palace, grossly underestimated Saddam’s WMD capabilities before the first Gulf War and grossly overestimated them before the second…and still haven’t accounted for the WMDs we know Saddam had?

    Would that be the same experts who didn’t see the collapse of the USSR coming, or the Indo-Pakastani nuclear testing duel coming, or 9/11…and who still haven’t found Osama Bin Laden despite six years of looking?

    The same experts who assured Bill Clinton that they could keep an eye on the North Koreans after the deal Clinton made with the Norks to close down their nuclear program in return for foreign aid…and were taken by suprise when the Norks went ahead and built their bomb anyway? And were equally taken by surprise by the Norks’ long-range missile tests?

    The same experts who, in turn, are even now telling President Bush that the Norks are getting out of the nuclear business…or were, right before the Israelis blew up that Syrian facility that apparently was using North Korean-supplied plutonium to fabricate nuclear weapons for the chinless opthamologist?

    The same experts who told President Bush that it was a “slam-dunk” case that Saddam had an active WMD program and that, once liberated, the Iraqis would be easily able to rebuild their country without much in the way of help…and then turned around and claimed to congressional Democrats that the Administration had pressured them to make such claims in the first place!?

    The same experts who, don’t forget, passed on a claim by British Intelligence that Saddam was trying to acquire uranium in Niger - for inclusion in the 2002 NIE, as you recall - while sending an obvious Democrat political hack to “investigate” (read: debunk) that assertion? And when said hack, Joseph Wilson III, returned, he told the CIA in private that there was at least circumstantial evidence to back up the British allegations…while publicly calling his President a liar. And those same experts remained silent while Wilson lied his ass off, and a White House staffer ended up being prosecuted for perjury.

    And Bush is now supposed to believe the frickin’ experts, after all that? Pull the other one, Deej.

    You want to know why this NIE is bullshit? Because - as a “consensus” document, allegedly the “consensus of America’s intelligence services” - it’s blatantly trying to please everybody. The Administration could, if it wanted, point to the NIE’s assertion of Iran canceling its nuclear weapons program in 2003 as proof that its policies of containment are working …and that the invasion of Iraq had a salutary effect on other would-be tyrants, as was one of our reasons for deposing Saddam in the first place. Congressional Democrats can in turn claim that there’s no reason to be talking about war when the Iranians allegedly aren’t interested in nuclear weapons. Best of all, if you take the claim that Iran won’t be able to build a working nuclear bomb until 2013 or so - after saying for years now that Iran could have the bomb in only a couple of years - they’ve kicked the can down the road past the next Presidential administration, so even the current crop of Presidential candidates can sign onto it with a straight face and a sigh of relief.

    Even the Iranians like this document because it “proves” they only are interested in peaceful uses of nuclear energy; I saw Mahmoud Ahmendinajad on one of the news channels today claiming that Iran had “won a victory.”

    Yes, Ahmendinajad, the apocalyptic, messianistic, genocidal madman fronting the venomous mullahs of Iran - the same mullahs who hang homosexuals and execute rape victims for “adultery,” call for the obliteration of Israel and the extermination of the Jewish people on a daily basis, and who have been in a self-declared war with the United States since 1979 - loves this NIE.

    We don’t need to negotiate with the mullahs, Deej. America’s intelligence community has already handed them a propaganda victory without any need to meet with them face to face. Not that face-to-face negotiations wouldn’t give Iran’s outlaw regime additional legitimacy that they simply don’t deserve.

    :em98:

  19. Unregistered Comment by LC Wes, Imperial Mohel

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Oh yes, Deej: One of those “experts” who wrote this NIE?

    Five months ago he told Congress that Iran was actively pursuing its nuclear weapons program.

    So was he telling the truth then? Or are they telling the truth now? Or are the bureaucrats just talking out of both sides of their mouths…as they have done throughout Bush’s term in office?

    I guess that since they apparently first underestimated, then overestimated Saddam’s WMD arsenal, the intelligence “professionals” are going to atone for those mistakes by lowballing thei estimates of Iran’s capabilities.

    Are they right? For my money…I wouldn’t be a damned bit suprised if an Iranian nuke went off in Times Square tomorrow morning.

  20. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    it will be interesting to see how all of the iran apologists rationalize the mushroom clouds over Jerusalem

    In truth I do not believe there is any way the muslim rats can win this thing….but we can lose it. Through apathy, animosity or sheer cowardice.
    Actually, Jaybear…I think they will delight in it. What they will not like and cluck cluck about is Israel laying waste to the entire middle east via nuclear vengeance. If I had my way, this country would join the party with thermonuclear weapons and finish the job. I don’t believe for one second Russia or China would do jack shit. Not faced with nuclear annihilation.

  21. The Major Comment by The Major

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Here here, Wes! Nicely put!

    What a shame that Washington Bureaucracies and Bureaucrats often act as if they are subservient to nobody. They have their own little political agendas and are quite willing to leak sensitive information, distort the truth or outright lie to embarrass politicians they dislike. You cannot make sound decisions on complex issues if the people you rely upon for accurate information are feeding you horseshit and/or stabbing you in the back.

    Time to bulldoze DC and start from scratch. :em41:

  22. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Time to bulldoze DC and start from scratch.

    I believe that THAT is the reason they are so hard core dedicated to keeping the people disarmed in DC. I do not wish to go off on a tangent, so I will but agree with the Major. Just remember this piece of “bumper sticker wisdom”. Fear the government that fears your guns.

  23. The Major Comment by The Major

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952
    Actually, Jaybear…I think they will delight in it. What they will not like and cluck cluck about is Israel laying waste to the entire middle east via nuclear vengeance. If I had my way, this country would join the party with thermonuclear weapons and finish the job. I don’t believe for one second Russia or China would do jack shit. Not faced with nuclear annihilation.

    If Thunderthighs or any of the other Dildocrats get into the Whitehouse, you can forget supporting an Israeli retaliation with nuclear weapons. Hillary would be nervously fidgeting her anesthetized testicles wondering what to do next, or what impact ionized Muzzies will have on Global Warming. No… she’d try to stop Israel from retaliating, urging “restraint.” Kinda like we did to ourselves after 9/11. We engaged in a measured response instead of the much needed (and asked for), all-out Texas-sized boot-in-the-ass Nuclear Mooselimb turkey shoot.

  24. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I fear you are correct, Major….but I doubt Israel would exercise restraint beyond a point of no return. God, I would hope not.

  25. The Major Comment by The Major

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Comment by cmblake6
    I believe that THAT is the reason they are so hard core dedicated to keeping the people disarmed in DC. I do not wish to go off on a tangent, so I will but agree with the Major. Just remember this piece of “bumper sticker wisdom”. Fear the government that fears your guns.

    The triad of evils that will lead to our loss of freedom:

    1 - Failing Schools. Stupid people are easy to control.

    2 - Dependency. People who depend upon the Government for the bulk of their needs are easy to control.

    3 - Powerlessness. People who cannot forcibly protect their freedoms are easy to control.

    We are well down the pathway on 1 & 2. Gun control will not be far behind.

    Even if you don’t own a gun, join the NRA anyway.

  26. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I own four, and am a life member. I fight for amendment two, writing off and on for our local paper here. Fortunately, at least in my little enclave, amendment two is alive and well. I bought my wife an NRA membership and a forty-five for her fiftieth birthday. Now she has her eye on this gorgeous Springfield nine mm. and I do not know how I could possibly afford it at this time. But truly a beautiful pistol. Me? I want an AK, but good luck in this state.

  27. Unregistered Comment by readerjp

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Special: Analysis of Iran’s Nuclear Program

    The report by International Atomic Energy Agency Director-General ElBaradei on Iran’s nuclear activity, published on November 15, breathed new life into the Iranian claim of “innocence.”

    Further scrutiny of the report reveals a very different picture. Despite its unassertive wording and a style ranging from neutral to apologetic, it reveals that Iran has yet to clarify suspicions of its involvement in planning the components of a nuclear weapon (beyond the production of the necessary fissile material) and the involvement of unknown elements in the nuclear program, other than the official Iranian organization that the IAEA knows of. Furthermore, it states that Iran is continuing uranium enrichment, in defiance of UN Security Council Resolutions 1737 and 1747, which demand a halt to this activity.

    Background and Commentary: Some 3,000 centrifuges are installed in underground halls in the enrichment facility at Natanz. Western nuclear experts note that with constant operation and optimal conditions (which is not the case at present), these centrifuges, hooked up in groups of 164 devices (cascades), might enrich enough fissile material for one nuclear bomb per year.

    P-2 Centrifuges – Past Activity:

    Facts: The IAEA confirms that Iran’s statements concerning its past activity (between 1996-2002) involving advanced P-2 centrifuges “are in line with the information possessed by the IAEA.” The Agency has “no reliable information” indicating the active purchase of centrifuge components during this period, and therefore it concludes that Iran did not conduct any significant R&D with this centrifuge model until 2002.
    [OH WELL, I GUESS IRAN DIDN’T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE THE IAEA DIDN’T FIND IT]

    As part of its investigation in 2002, the IAEA discovered that by 1996 Iran already had in its possessions the blueprints for advanced centrifuges of Pakistani design (P-2). This model significantly improves upon the centrifuges’ operation and the enrichment rate of the uranium fed to them. Iran’s claims that it has not made use of these blueprints for R&D in preparations for operating the centrifuges seem false, particularly given the low quality of the P-1 centrifuges. Furthermore, George Perkovich, a renowned American expert on nuclear matters, also noted that the non-involvement of formal Iranian elements in R&D based on the blueprints gives rise to the suspicion that the R&D was conducted covertly by Iranian bodies whom the IAEA is unfamiliar with.
    Since 2002, Iran has contracted a private local company to manufacture P-2 centrifuges. Iran claims that work stopped in 2003. On November 5 of this year Iran provided the IAEA with the contract and satisfactory explanations concerning the work; however, the “company director was not available” to answer IAEA inspectors’ questions after the contract was handed over

    US nuclear expert Dr. David Albright, who previously served as an IAEA inspector in Iraq, notes that the elusive wording of the report conceals Iran’s refusal to grant IAEA inspectors access to two key individuals who could shed some light on the part of the PHRC Institute.

    The IAEA “is pressing Iran to speedily address” the arguments raised with regards to research on the conversion of metallic uranium to UF-4 (”The Green Salt Project”), two experiments that were conducted with special explosives (of the type suitable for a nuclear bomb based on implosion), as well as involvement in the configuration of a nuclear warhead (Missile Re-Entry Vehicle). The report notes that according to the work plan that had been set up, Iran was to have addressed the issue in the next few weeks, and until then the IAEA will take steps to present the “evidentiary material” to the Iranians.

    Background and Commentary: The last two issues are again indicative of planning for nuclear weapons. The claims about the configuration of a warhead apparently refer to what elements at the US State Department defined (in the monthly Arms Control Today) that they have evidence that points to Iran’s attempts to create a nuclear explosive charge that will be loaded on its Shihab-3 ground-to-ground missiles. What is unique to this issue is the apparent existence of “bureaucratic links” between the three aforementioned projects, despite the fact that the first project involving UF-4 pertains to the manufacture of fissile material, which differs from the two latter projects, which deal with manufacturing the explosive apparatus of a nuclear weapon. This led “Western experts” to consider the possibility of a comprehensive and extensive program for developing nuclear weaponry.

    Link

    There’s much more. I’m sure you people are more technically knowledgeable than me.

    And then there’s this:

    Our good friends in the UAE which include Dubai of the port fame and Abu Dhabi (whose SWF just bought 10% of Citigroup)are helping Iran to bypass those sanctions which are supposed to help us avoid war. The Financial Times reports:

    . . . the UAE has become the main window to foil official and de facto sanctions against Iran, say businessmen in Tehran. The Iranian government, they add, has established “private companies” that help to bypass the effects of sanctions.”There are so many ways to do business through the UAE and Americans cannot do much,” said one former official.

    Link

  28. Unregistered Pingback by Ehud Barak: not buying the NIE

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    […] Skepticism continues to mount. […]

  29. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    We can’t just assume something is true when there is absolutely no evidence other than it could be true — even though there is no evidence.

    there were three cars on the side of the road and three men next to them. a driver seeing them begain slowing down to see if they needed help when they started waving signs, ‘the end is near’, ’stop before its too late’ and ‘turn yourself around while you can’. “religious nutjobs” he shouted as he stomped on the gas and whipped around the stunned men. a few seconds later comes a screech of brakes locking up, then a brief silence followed by a loud crash. another car pulls over. the driver gets out mumbling “sorry i’m late” and pulls out his sign, ‘the bridge is out’. sometimes you need a little more information to make an intelligent decision.

  30. NevadaDailySteve Comment by NevadaDailySteve

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    pulls out his sign, ‘the bridge is out’. sometimes you need a little more information to make an intelligent decision.

    Gotta love it.

    One thing that gets me is that the consequences of being wrong are asymmetrical. If Bush is wrong and the worst happens we have another major fight on our hands costing the lives of thousands. One the other hand if Deej is wrong 7 million Israelis die in a mushroom cloud, 1 million of them Arabs.

    I guess to some people it’s worth the risk, who cares if it’s just the Jews who are in danger? :em41:

  31. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Canadian Govt: No plans to isolate prisoners with jihad connections to prevent them from indoctrinating other inmates

  32. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    As for owning guns, I’d have to check my inventory to tell you how many I have. And I am a life member as well. As for the Iranian threat, it is real. Do not let the kumbayahs drown out that little voice that is telling you to CYA.

  33. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    since fear is the weapon that Muslims use to keep us slaves and dhimmis.

    More TRUTH! This must be dealt with. :em96: :em96: :em96: :em96:

  34. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Would that be the same experts who told us that Saddam was just kidding about invading Kuwait right up to the point Saddam’s tanks pulled up to the Kuwaiti presidential palace, grossly underestimated Saddam’s WMD capabilities before the first Gulf War and grossly overestimated them before the second…and still haven’t accounted for the WMDs we know Saddam had?

    Oh you mean when Saddam told us that he intended to go into Kuwait and we told him that was between him and Kuwait? He pretty much asked us if we gave a fuck and we pretty much told him no. It wasn’t until after the Saudis began complaining and threatening to shut off the oil supply that the international community started “having a problem with it”. And even then, there were the fake stories such as the incubator and baby story.

    And gee, where did he get those WMD we were so sure he had? (and the operative word here is “had”)

    The reality is that we OVERestimated Saddam’s WMD capabilities at the beginning of THIS Iraqi debacle. Just as we have been OVERestimating what has been going on in Iran. (in the case of Bush, he has just been out and out lying about it — and he has been caught in that lie)

    I notice Bush isn’t disputing what the NIE is saying, he is just disputing when he heard about it. He said he only learned about it last week, when the White House is saying he was briefed on it back in August.

    None of us are experts at what is happening in Iran. We only have what the corporate-controlled media is telling us. We sit here day in and night out speculating about something we don’t have a fucking clue on other than our own pre-formed opinions.

    Along comes a report done by not one, but MANY experts on the subject and it contradicts the propaganda that the administration is “catapulting”. and it feeds into your need for another wargasm.

    The majority of people in this country are no longer buying it.

    Yes, the Iranians are dangerous right now — because we aren’t engaging with them. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

  35. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Yes, the Iranians are dangerous right now — because we aren’t engaging with them. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

    This is a good call from you Deej. Provided you are recognising that they must be kept close so we can catch their lies. Yeah, give them a hug. So you can look over their shoulder and find out what’s behind their back.

  36. Kristopher, LC Comment by Kristopher, LC

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I disagree.

    Engaging Hitler in diplomacy simply bought that swine time to slaughter millions.

    A major part of diplomacy is being able to recognize when it is time to stop saying “Nice Doggie” and actually use that stick.

    You can’t get away with only using soothing words on a rabid dog.

  37. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    And a rabid dog will not be controlled with a stick. You must shoot it, or impale it on a pike.

  38. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    cmblake6

    Yeah, give them a hug.

    better rub some vicks under your nose first. the stench might knock knock you down.

  39. NevadaDailySteve Comment by NevadaDailySteve

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    The majority of people in this country are no longer buying it.

    That’s because a lot of people who think more of party than of country are going around saying Bush lied just because they disagree with him. It’s dishonest, it’s underhanded and it is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

    You don’t like what Bush says. Fine, no one is saying you have to. Just stop with the “Bush lied kids died” bullshit.

    You engage in ad hominem attacks against Bush and provide no proof that what he is saying about Iraq is a lie. Sure he was wrong about things, everyone was. It doesn’t mean he LIED about it. Get off that kick. Or do you want to be judged by that yardstick? Should we judge you a liar every time you make an error? How would you like that?

    Didn’t think so.

  40. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ
    “Corporate-controlled” and “corporate-controlled media” seem to be showing up with regularity in your posts. Don’t you work for a corporation? And even if you are a sub-contractor to someone, you still get the check from “a source”.

    This sounds too Chomsky to me.

  41. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I would tend to take Israeli intelligence a bit more seriously, given that for them, such estimates are a matter of life or death.

    But this is what it ALL really boils down to. For them, it’s not just trying to discredit the conservative party under orders of the Kremlin masters. It is continuing to exist. How much simpler can that be?

  42. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    …….it will be interesting to see how all of the iran apologists rationalize the mushroom clouds over Jerusalem….

    I can give it to you right now. The immediate cry will be that the evvvviiiilllll jews provoked them and they had no choice. It won’t be true, but with no competing claim, it really won’t matter.

  43. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    It’s dishonest, it’s underhanded and it is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

    And there you go with the “traitor” meme.

    Basically you are saying that 70 percent of the people can’t form an opinion for themselves. Many of these same people were the ones that supported your wargasms to begin with, and now they fall out of favor with you once they’ve realized that they were misled and are now seeing that they are in the middle of being misled again?

    Terrorism, as a tactic, has been around since recorded time. Fighting a “war” against it is silly, if not impossible.

    Wars for religious dominance is nothing new either. It predates any of our modern societies and will still be happening long after we are gone. In this current case, it is nothing more than an excuse, just as the war of terror is an excuse — to mask the real reason for all of this action in the Middle East: OIL.

    Nuclear weapons? We knew that Saddam didn’t have a program in operation since the first gulf war. But you didn’t want to believe the inspectors who actually were there on the ground. So we invaded on false pretenses.

    We also know that while Iran has a nuclear program, they aren’t pursuing a weapons program. Both China and Russia have been saying that all along, now our own intelligence agencies are saying it too. The Pentagon is relieved, because there is absolutely no way we can sustain another military action (and forget calling it “Clinton’s military — this is all Bush’s military by now)

    The Bush administration has this silly idea of what “diplomacy” and “negotiations” are. The idea that the “other side” first must comply with what you want them to do BEFORE you will talk to them is assinine. If we were next door neighbors and you decided to have loud parties at night, would I first have to get you to agree not to have any more parties at night before we could sit down and discuss it?

    I would wager that you would continue to have the loud parties.

    But if I went over and discussed it with you, it is very possible that we could come up with an understanding and a mutual agreement that benefits the both of us.

    We are mad at Iran because they decided in 1979 that they weren’t going to allow the United States to be the master over our puppet regime over there. We also have out eyes on their oil, and if we can somehow suck it all out from under their feet, then that is what we are going to do.

    We got mad at Iran back in 1952 because their democratically elected government wanted to nationalize their oil. We didn’t want that because for some reason we saw that oil as OUR oil. So we tossed out Iran’s democratically elected government and installed the Shah of Iran — because he did what we wanted him to do.

    It is time — right now — to engage the Iranians about their nuclear program. Bush still calls for Iran to “come clean” about the program they halted back in 2003. I think we should be focusing on the future, not the past. Open a dialog with the Iranians. It certainly won’t hurt anything — except maybe take away a few of your wargasmns

  44. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ

    except maybe take away a few of your wargasmns

    to late man, my last “WARGASMN”tm was back in ‘91. the wife asked me if i thought we were going to do anything anytime soon. after a few minutes thought i said ‘with the time zone difference about 7pm tonight’. she laughed but called me into the living room as the news came on and BINGO, pass the tisues :em93:

  45. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

  46. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Nuclear weapons? We knew that Saddam didn’t have a program in operation since the first gulf war. But you didn’t want to believe the inspectors who actually were there on the ground. So we invaded on false pretenses.

    Oh, and never mind the centrifuge buried under his chief scientists’ swimming pool. Yeah. Once he was SURE Saddam was not coming back, he came to us. And all the delays when the inspectors would go to hangars that weren’t on the schedule so stuff could be shuffled out the back. Or the various underground facilities that were discovered during the sweep that were HOT. Why in the hell the public doesn’t know all the good shit WE know, I don’t know. Other than the propaganda machine keeps the truth from the serfs. Do you have ANY idea how frustrating it is to know stuff that the public doesn’t? And then have to listen to the lie? And nothing I’m telling you is classified, just not reported.
    BTW, brilliant KFC pic! Now THAT was cute!

  47. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Oh, and never mind the centrifuge buried under his chief scientists’ swimming pool.

    I thought that was his rose garden.

    Nobody said Saddam didn’t have a program at one time — hell, we gave him a lot of it.

    Here is the thing that should make you go hmmmmm:

    BushCo has made a big stink about Saddam’s Iraq and his potential for WMD, yet completely ignored North Korea and their FOR SURE nuclear weapons.

    Now they are making another big stink for Iran for their nuclear program — and completely ignores the fact that Pakistan the home of Al Qaeda has a dictator that is just a heart beat away from assassination and a complete take over by Islamic extremists — namely that one guy Bush “hasn’t been giving too much thought about” Osama Bin Forgotten.

    So let’s see, we go into countries with a lot of oil on the pretences that they may someday be thinking about a nuclear weapon, yet we could give a fuck about those countries that really are full of nutcases who actually have nuclear weapons because they don’t have oil.

    Like I said earlier, 70 percent of the people are not buying this crap any longer, and that number is growing.

  48. Unregistered Comment by LC Wes, Imperial Mohel

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Here is the thing that should make you go hmmmmm: BushCo has made a big stink about Saddam’s Iraq and his potential for WMD, yet completely ignored North Korea and their FOR SURE nuclear weapons.

    No, Deej: that assertion is the thing that makes me throw the bullshit flag. It’s unbelievable that you can sit there and say with a straight face that Bush hasn’t been paying attention to the North Korean nuclear crisis. What were those three “Axis of Evil” nations Bush took so much heat for labeling them as such? Well, let’s see…Iraq and Iran, which do have oil, and, oh yes…North Korea. Bush has spent most of his presidency trying to rein in the Norks, with ongoing six-way negotiations involving the other nations in the region. And even tried direct one-on-one negotiations with the Norks to get them to put a stop to their nuclear program…to damn-all effect.

    Besides, it’s not as if the Norks would let us forget about them, seeing as how every six months they’re firing missiles over Japan or in the direction of Hawaii…or peddling plutonium to Syria, or some such.

    Your claim that Bush has ignored the North Korean nuclear program isn’t only bullshit: it’s an outright lie.

    Now they are making another big stink for Iran for their nuclear program — and completely ignores the fact that Pakistan the home of Al Qaeda has a dictator that is just a heart beat away from assassination and a complete take over by Islamic extremists — namely that one guy Bush “hasn’t been giving too much thought about” Osama Bin Forgotten.

    Again, bullshit. Our support is likely the only thing that’s kept Perez Musharraf in power as long as he has. Why do you think Bush has made little more than token protest over some of the harsh measures Musharraf has taken while in office? And it’s not like those “experts” you’re so fond of have managed to find Osama either…

    I take it back: it’s perfectly believable that you’re so wedded to your personal hatred of this President - and your refusal to accept that he legitimately won two elections to that office - that you can make such outrageously false claims with a straight face, in lieu of actually rebutting our arguments. And result to personal insults or character smears when somebody calls you on your raging case of Bush Derangement Syndrome. (”Wargasm?” Snork.) Sounds typically liberal of you (since we’re now into ad hominems at this point…)

    And this brings us right back to the original topic of Misha’s post: that all the liberals (such as yourself, Deej) who doubted “the experts” when they said Saddam had WMD and claimed that Bush was lying about it…are now willing to take those same experts at face value when they claim that Iran is out of the nuclear business. And attack anyone who questions that claim, as you have done throughout this thread.

    You can’t have it both ways, Deej.

  49. Unregistered Comment by readerjp

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Just one comment:

    YOU DO NOT EVER, EVER, EVER NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS. AND THAT’S WHAT THE IRANIANS ARE, A WHOLE GOVERNMENT SUPPORTING TERRORISM.

    Do you think they will negotiate in good faith? Do you think they won’t lie to you? To them, negotiation is a sign of weakness. While you “negotiate” with them, they are thinking you are WEAK, and the Great Satan will soon be destroyed.

    There is only one thing they understand: force.

    And by the way, Iran funds Hizbollah. Hizbollah blew up more than 200 Marines in Beirut 24 years ago. Nobody was ever brought to justice. Sometimes I think Americans have no memories at all.

  50. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    readerjp

    Sometimes I think Americans have no memories at all.

    The world has no memory either my friend. How dear a price we will all have to pay because the warnings are not heeded.

  51. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Terrorism, as a tactic, has been around since recorded time. Fighting a “war” against it is silly, if not impossible.

    Aside from the fact that we agree completely that “The War on Terror” is a completely asinine name for what I and others prefer to call The Long War (much like “The War on Poverty” and “The War on (Some) Drugs” are about the most idiotic names I’ve ever heard), I’d be willing to bet you a steak dinner that I could fight this one and win it. Just give me a few years without my hands tied behind my back and this war will be over just like that.

    Terrorism will still be around as a tactic after that, just as Nazism is still around as a replacement for actual rational thought, but there won’t be anybody around feeling “lucky” enough to dare try it on for size.

    I guarantee it.

  52. NevadaDailySteve Comment by NevadaDailySteve

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    And there you go with the “traitor” meme.

    No, that is a lie. I never said anyone was a traitor. I said they were giving aid and comfort to the enemy. They are. By undermining Bush in such a way - note: there are ways to oppose Bush that do not give aid and comfort to the enemy - they help the jihadists that want nothing better than to kill Americans. There are Americans going into harms way and arguments trying to take support from them help the enemy they are fighting.

    Terrorism, as a tactic, has been around since recorded time. Fighting a “war” against it is silly, if not impossible.

    Now you are just being obtuse. You know that calling it the Global War on Terror was just an example of trying to not infer the religion of pus had anything to do with the war. Call it whatever you like. There’s an armed conflict in more than one theater. Call it WW III, call it a kumquat; it doesn’t change anything.

    Nuclear weapons? We knew that Saddam didn’t have a program in operation since the first gulf war. But you didn’t want to believe the inspectors who actually were there on the ground. So we invaded on false pretenses.

    Please, don’t even try to go there. Wilson lied, get over it. He went to Africa had some tea and chatted a few people up. Then he comes back, gives a verbal report that basically says that yeah, Saddam did try to get some uranium {not that he got it, just that he tried} THEN he goes and writes a column lying about everything and in the process thrusting his wife into the limelight. Yet it’s that evil Bush that’s at fault.

    Yeah, there weren’t any other reasons to depose Saddam. Everything came down to his nuclear program. NOT. There were dozens of reasons to depose Saddam that had nothing to do with his nuclear program.

    Saddam used chemical weapons on civilians in his own country He had an obligation under the U.N. resolutions to not only destroy his stocks of chemical weapons but also to prove he had done so. He didn’t.

    He fired on planes enforcing the no-fly zone.

    He and his sons ran a system that tortured and killed at a rate that boggles the mind. Raping women in front of their husbands and children, cutting off the hands of doctors, ripping out the tongues of those who spoke against him.

    Gulf II is really just a continuation of Gulf I. Saddam failed to live up to his obligations under the cease-fire. In that case it isn’t starting something new, it’s just ceasing to cease fire.

    We also know that while Iran has a nuclear program, they aren’t pursuing a weapons program. Both China and Russia have been saying that all along, now our own intelligence agencies are saying it too.

    Really? You know for a fact that Iran is only going to use it’s nuclear program for peaceful purposes? And you are going to take China and Russia’s word for it? Who would be harmed by international intervention stopping Iran’s ambitions? China, Russia, France and North Korea. Yessir, they have no reason to lie about it but Bush does.

    Idiotic nonsense.

    You’re cherry-picking not only which NIE you choose to believe but also which parts of that one you cling to. Yet when the administration does it they are wrong while you are right.

    You talk as if Iran is a rational player. They aren’t. Amad-in-a-dinner-jacket has said that all it takes is ONE atomic bomb and Israel would be destroyed but Iran could absorb many such bombs and survive. With someone that dangerous you don’t get any where ‘discussing’ something. The only way you deal with crazies like that is from a position of dominance-and there is only one way to achieve that dominance.

    They are like the mule in the old joke. A man wants this guy to haul some stuff for him in a wagon pulled by a mule. The guy goes over and smacks the mule in the head with a 2×4 and puts it in the harness and loads the wagon. When they’re ready to head out he smacks the mule in the head, shakes the reins and the mule takes off. The man asks why he is being so cruel to the mule and the guy says; “Well the mule is pretty stubborn, first you got to get his attention.”

  53. LC Mike in Chi Comment by LC Mike in Chi

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ Allen

    Like I said earlier, 70 percent of the people are not buying this crap any longer, and that number is growing.

    Would that be 70% of the insular group you associate with…hmmm?
    If so, good news for the VRWC! 30% of your peers are thinking otherwise!

  54. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    70 percent of the people are not buying this crap any longer

    i dont even trust the polls that agree with my viewpoints. i am a regular responder to one (they email me). i called them once to ask why i’m never polled about the war or gun control and was told they dont poll those type of questions in my area because we give the wrong answers. think about it.

  55. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    hilljohnny

    they dont poll those type of questions in my area because we give the wrong answers. think about it.

    Wow, so basically, they just ask people who will give them the answers they want. That’s no “poll” thats screwing with data…

    Explains a lot, doesn’t it…

  56. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    It’s unbelievable that you can sit there and say with a straight face that Bush hasn’t been paying attention to the North Korean nuclear crisis

    BUSH hasn’t done fuck-all with North Korea and you know it. So yes, straight face and all that, Bush is totally disengaged from North Korea. In fact, he doesn’t even have a concept of diplomacy or negotiations — having once called Kim Jong Il a “pygmy” and a man he “loathed.”

    BUT…

    In spite of Bush, there is dialog going on, and progress. This is something he could have done with both Iraq and now Iran. Again, the difference is that Iraq and Iran have oil, North Korea and Pakistan don’t. So basically, use force in the countries that have something we want, and pretty much ignore those that don’t have anything we want.

    There is now progress to the point that Bush has sent a letter to Kim Jong Il.

    What were those three “Axis of Evil” nations Bush took so much heat for labeling them as such? Well, let’s see…Iraq and Iran, which do have oil, and, oh yes…North Korea.

    Oh yes, and he spent much of the same speech telling us about how he was spending all of his resources going after the real perpetrator of 9/11 attacks — Osama Been Forgotten.

    Is there anyone in the world who hasn’t figured out that Osama Bin Laden is holed up in Pakistan and being protected by our good friends in Pakistan? And what a coinky dink that we only hear from Osama when Bush needs us to be reminded of the boogie man.

    I remember an argument here some time ago — maybe two years ago — when I brought this up and people here insisted that Osama was dead, and that he doesn’t really matter.

    Well, he isn’t dead, and he matters a lot. He is the face, the inspiration, the hero of the Islamic terrorist movements. They might as well form a religion around him, because he pretty much has a cult status.

    The Long War

    This is exactly what the majority of people do not want.

    We don’t want perpetual war — and this is exactly what this administration has been creating — a self perpetuating war.

    We are creating more ‘terrorists’ by our actions. We are pissing more people off today than we did yesterday. This isn’t winning, this is just making it worse.

  57. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ Allyn, ITW

    We are creating more ‘terrorists’ by our actions. We are pissing more people off today than we did yesterday. This isn’t winning, this is just making it worse.

    And what, might I ask, did America do that pissed off those mooslimes to provoke 9/11 !?!?!? You might find a bundle of “excuses” and “circumstances” to explain it, I don’t. NOTHING done or said was worth that unprovoked attack on DEFENCELESS CIVILIANS, or have we forgotten this already.

    I don’t fucking CARE what cause these turds are brandishing or what excuse they’re creating, 9/11 was an HORROR totally UNCALLED for! If anything, that horrific event simply showed the world what pigslam is really all about and what the mooslimes are preparing for the “kafirs”.

    Your country is not creating more terrorists, it is ridding the world of some. These bastards keep finding offense as to focus their followers attention away from their servitude and misery while trying to achieve dominance. As for pissing people off, let me reassure you ,Sir, that the fucking mooslimes are pissing off a LOT more folks than America does at any given time.

    I suppose the burning and pillage going on in the streets of France just about every fucking night is America’s fault too!??! No, it’s not recognizing the fact that these animals are bend on dominance and impose their slavery on the whole of the “kafir” societies, and France is paying the price, so is England and any and all of the countries that showed “tolerance” towards these animals.

    It is not just a matter of “winning” anymore by the way, but surviving the onslaught of these monsters.

    And to quote :

    NEVER FORGET NEVER FORGIVE

  58. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    here is some more fuel for the fire by John Bolton

  59. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    We don’t want perpetual war — and this is exactly what this administration has been creating — a self perpetuating war.

    This is true. And the ONLY way to stop this is to take the gloves OFF. Fear is the only thing these pieces of porcine excrement understand. Strength and fear.

  60. Unregistered Comment by readerjp

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    IDF to Present Iranian Nuclear Evidence to U.S. Military Chief

    IDF Military Intelligence will present its hard core evidence on Iran’s nuclear program on Sunday to the visiting chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Michael Mullen. Mullen will hear presentations on a wide range of topics - including the Hamas buildup in Gaza, Egypt’s failure to stop the smuggling of weapons into Gaza, Hizbullah activities in Lebanon, Syria and Iran.

    Mullen’s visit to Israel will be exactly a week after the publication of the NIE report that claimed Iran had frozen its nuclear military program in 2003 and has yet to restart it. During his visit, Military Intelligence plans to present him with Israel’s evidence that Iran is in fact developing nuclear weapons.

    (Jerusalem Post)

    Israel Cannot Let Down Its Guard in the Face of Iranian Threats - Editorial

    While Iran continues threatening to annihilate Israel, what American intelligence thinks about Iran’s nuclear capability is irrelevant. It is not fantasy or paranoia when we hear regular, concrete threats from Tehran. Therefore, the question of whether Iran obtains a nuclear capability to destroy Israel in two years or seven years is not important. While other nations can amuse themselves by mulling their economic interests with Iran, Israel is the only country that cannot let its guard down as long as the current Iranian regime is in power. The American intelligence report cannot justify a policy change or a calming down. The report establishes that if Iran wants to produce a bomb it can do so. (Ha’aretz)

    The Thousand Volt Farce - Melanie Phillips

    How Iran is laughing. America has achieved the remarkable feat of dealing a terrible blow to all those fighting to defend civilization. It has actually strengthened Ahmadinejad, whose grip on power had been looking ever more fragile. But then the U.S. handed him a priceless gift in the form of the NIE report which says, in effect, that U.S. intelligence hasn’t got a clue about the Iranian nuclear threat. We can all see from its ludicrously threadbare reasoning - much of it merely using guesswork to assess Iran’s intentions, in the absence of reliable information on the ground - that intelligence of any sort is clearly in short supply in the U.S. security world. (Spectator-UK)

    An Insult to Intelligence: The Israeli Defense Community Responds to the NIE - Yossi Klein Halevi (New Republic)

    With the release of the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran, America, even under George Bush, is hardly likely to go to war to stop a nuclear weapons program many Americans now believe doesn’t exist. The sense of betrayal within the Israeli security system is deep. After convincing the international community that the nuclear threat was real, now that has been undone by Israel’s closest ally.
    What makes Israeli security officials especially furious is that the report casts doubt on Iranian determination to attain nuclear weapons. There is a sense of incredulity. The Israeli strategists I heard from ridicule the report’s contention that “Tehran’s decisions are guided by a cost-benefit approach rather than a rush to a weapon irrespective of the political, economic, and military costs.” Is it, asks one Israeli analyst, a cost-benefit approach for one of the world’s largest oil exporters to risk international sanctions and economic ruin for the sake of a peaceful nuclear program? For Israeli security analysts, the suspension in 2003 of Iran’s covert nuclear military program - the NIE’s defining issue - is hardly pivotal. The working assumption in Israeli intelligence is that the Iranians have resumed their covert military program. “The Syrians were working on their nuclear project for seven years, and we discovered it only recently,” says one security analyst. “The Americans didn’t know about it at all. So how can they be so sure about Iran?”

    Shabtai Shavit, former head of the Mossad, said: “My assessment is that, after they decided to aim for nuclear weapons, they advanced on three parallel tracks: enriching uranium, creating components for a bomb, and developing missiles. The missiles are ready for operation. As for enrichment, they have encountered all kinds of problems, like exploding centrifuges. I estimate that they made great progress, and very quickly, on the military track. Since they have problems with the uranium enrichment track, they can allow themselves to delay the military track, and wait for progress with uranium.”

    And if Shavit had written the report? “I would have based my assessment on the facts and said unequivocally that Iran is going to create the ability to make a bomb.”

  61. Unregistered Comment by LC Wes, Imperial Mohel

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Deej…oh, fuck it.

    You haven’t bothered to actually rebut or even debate a single thing I or anyone else on this thread has said, you’ve just regurgitated the usual tiresome, oft-disproven Daily Kos tinfoil-hat talking points…when you haven’t simply lied outright. And I frankly don’t have the time to indulge another of your foot-stomping, childish “Na-na-na-na-I-can’t-hear-you-Bush-lied-people-died-Osama- been-forgotten-you’re-having-a-wargasm!!!11!1!!” tantrums.

    I suppose that’s the only way a liberal can “win” an argument: throw a tantrum until the other party in the debate just gives up and goes home…

    This sort of thing is why I’ve dramatically cut back my posting here and at other political-themed websites. Sometimes a little flamewarring is cathartic. More often, these days trying to talk sense to the insensible is just an excercise in futility and frustration, and raises my blood pressure to no good purpose.

    So have a good night, and perhaps you should consider adding another layer of tinfoil to your headgear.

    ***

    For the rest of you, along with France, Germany, and Israel…even Harvard has doubts about this NIE.

    Going along with what readerjp posted above, I came across this link on Instapundit: An analyst at Harvard’s Middle East policy institute thinks Iran not only sees this as a sign of weakness…but that the Iranians have already been spurred to restart their weapons program.

    So, if this prediction turns out to be true: How’s that for “creating terrorists?” Nuclear-armed terrorists, at that…

  62. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Wes

    you’ve just regurgitated the usual tiresome, oft-disproven Daily Kos tinfoil-hat talking points…when you haven’t simply lied outright

    being wrong is not the same as lying. ask any poligraph operator. if a person believes something is true the lie detector will show it as true.