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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Our Condolences To Our Friends Down Under
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Freshly minted Auzzie Prime Minister, eager for a photo-op with the Goreacle, promptly shows he’s a true friend of the Biggest Scatalogical-Scientific Swindle™ in history, by signing onto the Great Kyoto II Suicide Pact of 2007.

After managing to find hangar space and tie-downs for the hundreds of private jets, the convention gets off to the expected start, Blaming Bush for the impending crisis.

US On Defensive At Climate Conference

First Australia won international applause for abandoning the United States and signing a global warming pact Washington has long opposed. Then a U.S. Senate committee voted for deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions.

Harry Reid’s do-nothing, know-nothing Senate, plucks out a dingle-berry from Teddy’s Ample Ass-Crack and calls it legislation with glee, all for Teh Cause™, you know?

The Bush administration’s position, that technology, private investment and economic growth — rather than mandatory emissions cuts — will save the planet from global warming, is taking a beating this week at a U.N. climate change conference in Indonesia.

A beating? From a pack of festering, fanatic, socialist swine from the hollyweird crowd, two-bit diplodipshits and beaurcraptic bitches? What are they using for the beatings, leftover pasta from the all-night lobster buffet? Why don’t you all hop on those jets, fly a few thousand miles to your west and land at Baghdad airport with the intent to give the U.S. a beating. I’m sure a small squad of Marines would be more than happy to assist you.

The public defeats for the U.S. stance, coupled with mounting warnings from scientists and others that only decisive action will control rising temperatures, have cast the Americans as wayward sons who need to wake up and join the rest of the world.

“I think the United States will be judicious enough to accept the changes of atmosphere,” said Indonesian Environment Minister Rachmat Witoelar, the host of the conference. “I don’t think we should pressure them. They will come by themselves.”

Public? What public are speaking of there Ratsass? Since I don’t recall seeing a national referendum on the issue recently, you are kindly obliged to shove the public you speak of into your transverse colon, rapidly and sans lubrication. The average American is judicious enough to recognize the climate changes at rather regular intervals, with some seasons more severe and some less than others. All a normal process of this Third Rock From The Sun.

A lot is at stake. The conference in Bali is charged with launching negotiations that will eventually lead to an international accord to succeed the 1997 Kyoto Protocol on global warming.

Indeed a LOT is at stake, all your investments in Carbon-Offsets, Research Grants and a loss of the REAL reason for this whole pustulent, piece-of-shit fairy tale. Control. More international accords, more international regulation, more international bureaucracies to monitor compliance and a loss of sovereign rights of any Nation/State foolish enough to sign onto your leaky, shit-caulked raft of junk science. All International and NONE elected. Odd how this works out isn’t it? It’s almost as if they really believe they know what’s best for us and we’d be more than happy to just turn it all over to them.

Kyoto, which was rejected by the Bush administration, commits three dozen industrialized countries to cut their greenhouse gases an average of 5 percent below 1990 levels between next year and 2012, when it expires.

Seeing their Turd-Raft sinking, the crowd gets ever more shrill, ratcheting up the cries of impending doom, death and destruction. Nothing like the old Harem-Scarem trick to cow the masses into giving up their freedoms.

The U.S. mission arrived at Bali with the goal of blocking Kyoto-like mandatory cut targets from getting into the new agreement, while many other countries came to Indonesia in hopes of coming up with a deal the Americans would participate in.

We have a better term for your little champagne and caviar love fest. Circle Jerk.

But Washington has seen its hand steadily weakened in the first few days of the two-week conference.

First, newly installed Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd reversed his country’s long-standing policy by signing the Kyoto pact Monday, leaving the United States as the only major industrialized country to reject the agreement. Rudd called on the U.S. to follow his lead, and the Australian delegation basked in applause and accolades at the opening of the conference in Bali.

And you can bet the Australian people won’t be applauding when the economic disaster hits their pocketbooks. Mr. Rudd you might want to find a well concealed location to ‘bask’ in when the chickens come home to roost. Say a small Caribbean Island.

The next blow came from a domestic source: Congress. The Senate Environment and Public Works Committee passed a bill Wednesday to cut U.S. emissions by 70 percent by 2050 from electric power plants, manufacturing and transportation, defying the administration’s opposition to mandatory caps.

70%? Does anyone inside the beltway have a clue as to how much that might cost? Considering we don’t even have the technology to reduce much more than a tiny fraction of emissions at the present. I guess the writer must have transcribed it’s notes wrong. The Senate Environment and PW Commission giddy from a round of blow jobs passed a suicide bill with no hope of making it out of the building let alone W’s desk.

The bill now goes to the full Senate. While President Bush is expected to veto it if it reaches his desk, the Wednesday vote cheered environmentalists and others who have argued the Bush administration is seriously out of step with the U.S. public serious concerns about global warming and willingness to do something about it.

Facts and Figures please on the U.S. public ‘concern’.

“It does show the seriousness of the U.S. Congress in addressing with these issues, and really sends a positive signal to developing nations in particular that the United States Congress is not going to sit idly by,” said David Waskow, of the Oxfam humanitarian agency. “That is quite distinct from … the Bush administration.”

Jumpin’ Jeepers on a Nuclear-Powered Pogo-Stick, why would anyone not currently a mental health in-patient, take the word of a hack from any ‘humanitarian’ organization seriously? Especially Oxfam.

That has left the U.S. delegation in Bali struggling to put a positive spin on events.

We don’t need no steenkin’ spin. We aren’t buying it and you are kindly invited to go perform unlikely acts of sexual gratification with farm animals of your choice.

U.S. climate chief Harlan Watson opened the American’s two briefings this week by outlining how Washington is fighting global warming its own way, with technology, aid and economic growth. He has denied the U.S. feels isolated.

The Bush administration says imposing mandatory emissions cuts will harm economic growth, and favors individual countries setting their own goals instead. Washington also backs private sector initiatives to develop energy-saving technology and alternative energy sources, such as ethanol and other biofuels. It also says industry should devise ways to burn coal and other fossil fuels more cleanly.

In other words, common sense. If y’all other socialist sycophants want to surrender your life, liberty and sovereign rights to a bunch of unelected, international snake-oil salesmen, knock yourself out.

On Thursday, Watson was adamant the Bush administration would stick to its guns, no matter what Australia or the Senate did.

“In our process, a vote for movement of a bill out of committee does not ensure its ultimate passage,” he told reporters. “I don’t know the details, but we will not alter our posture here.”

Stick to your guns boys. We know W still has a few pieces of spine left in there.

In addition to the setbacks, the U.S. has been faced with a drumbeat of scientific reports demonstrating the world needs to limit the increase in global temperatures to 3.6 degrees above what they were before the world industrialized and started spewing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, or face the worst environmental, social and economic impact of climate change.

The drumbeat that has been consistently and repeatedly discredited. But don’t let you stop that. We know, if you repeat the same lies long enough someone wearing drool-cups just might believe them.

Still, conference delegates recognize a deal without the United States is meaningless.

And There’s The Rub as old Wil, would put it. This isn’t about saving the planet, polar bears or purple dinosaurs. It’s a direct affront to the sovereignty of the United States. Suborning our way of life to unelected bureaucrats and one-world-government types.

Keep your eye on the real prize folks. This is a Socialist-Revolutionary plot disguised as junk-science elevated to religion.

The U.S. is the world’s largest emitter of greenhouse gases, and is home to the globe’s largest economy. Robust participation by Washington in a climate accord puts enormous resources at the disposal of the anti-global warming fight.

One more time for the record, the largest greenhouse gas being water vapor, the evil CO2 that has the wormelings panties in a was is exactly .036% of the atmospheric greenhouse gases, in 5th place behind, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Water and Argon, which coincidentally is about 300 times the concentration of C02. Where are the calls for Argon Off-Sets?

While welcoming both the Australian change of heart on Kyoto and the Senate moves in the U.S., U.N. climate chief Yvo de Boer did not use the developments to taunt Washington. Instead, he told reporters delegates would have to deal with the Bush administration no matter what — at least until 2009.

Of course he didn’t taunt Washington. The Deadstream Media writing this screed did quite well in the first paragraphs. Hey Yo’ Bo’, you wanna “deal” with W, and this is after all, about BDS, just show up at the fence at 1600 Pennsy with a prominently displayed weapon, I’m sure the boys and girls of the USSS will show you all about ‘dealing’ with things.

“That’s a very encouraging sign from the United States,” de Boer said of the Senate vote. But “for us, as an intergovernmental process, we’re most interested in the views of the government of the day.”

Yes of course, an “Intergovernmental Process” with the goal of cowering enough drooling retards in real government to let you take over their countries, economies and way of life.

Rope-Tree-Intergovernmental Process Members…you know the drill.

We truly are sympathetic to our Brother and Sister Rotts from “Down Under”

61 Responses to “Our Condolences To Our Friends Down Under”
  1. Useful Idiot Comment by Useful Idiot

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    They were so dumb that they were cute when they were running around spouting these climate fairy tales. Now, it’s not so cute anymore, it looks like these fairy tales are going to be expensive unless logic prevails.

  2. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

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    LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

    We aren’t buying it and you are kindly invited to go perform unlikely acts of sexual gratification with farm animals of your choice.

    Sir, I must protest on behalf of the farm animals!!! They do not deserve to be touched by these two-faced, lying turds!

    Same turds are encouraged to shove shards of broken glass up their rectum “sans lubrication” though…

    Agreed, someone is a bit too eager to impose their agenda on the nations of the world.

    But “for us, as an intergovernmental process, we’re most interested in the views of the government of the day.”

    Translation: we just want to take over and have the government of the United States and the rest of the idiotic politicians of all the nations who bought our bullshit to start paying so that we can grow fat on the back of your citizens.

    “Interested in the views of the government of the day” my canuck’s ass! The only interest these fucks have is to have total control. Can’t wait to see the MSM pouring out their headlines favouring this nonsense and selling it as “good for the planet, as long as YOU pay for it” crap.

    Someone bring me a bucket so that I can throw up please…

  3. Unregistered Pingback by The Political News You Need to Know » Our Condolences To Our Friends Down Under

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    […] Read the rest of this great post here […]

  4. hitnrun Comment by hitnrun

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    Then a U.S. Senate committee voted for deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions.

    Yeah, OK. I’m sure they would have still voted for it if they thought it had a snowball’s chance on a rapidly melting icecap of becoming law. This is mostly the same Senate that voted against Kyoto 95-0 when Clinton would have signed it. I wouldn’t run out to fill up the SUV quite yet.

    A Brief History of the Kyoto Treaty:

    Kyoto Planners: “Everyone should cut back on greenhouse gasses, crippling their economies and primitivizing their lifestyles by law, except for poor countries and “developing” countries. “Developing” countries include the ones who said “No” when we asked but don’t really have any respect for us whatsoever so we can’t try to persuade them.

    Poor And Developing Countries: “Sign us up! We agree to meet what this treaty demands of us, which is nothing!”

    Countries That Sign Treaties Recreationally: “Us too!”

    Country Where Treaties Are Actually Enforced All The Time By Law (a.k.a the United States): “Uhh….we’ll pass.”

  5. SoldierInGodsArmy Comment by SoldierInGodsArmy

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    The good ol days of scientists giving blowjobs to politicians for a grant here and there reminds me of Disneyland… “Happiest Place On Earth” you know.

    It appears now that the politicians are giving blowjobs to the scientists, for um, masturbated data so they can make money…

    Scientists are exactly as reliable as the cell phone I dropped in the toilet last week.

    Dipshits :em98:

    FYI: China is the largest emitter of the trace gas known as CO2.

  6. Unregistered Comment by Special Ed

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    And as hitnrun stated, the Kyoto protocol was turned down by the Clinton administration, not Bush. As it should have been, as the US gov’t is prohibitted by our Constitution from submitting our sovereignty to any other power.

    Should any Senator vote for any such treaty, that would be an impeachable offense.

  7. Terrapod Comment by Terrapod

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    In about 10 years or so, when it is proven by a 1.5 degree C temperature drop that we are in a new regime of sunspot mininimums, and Europe and Canada enjoy a new mini-ice age, I will be sipping a mint julep somewhere on the verdant Arizona plain, with a big grin on my face. Sorry about Australia being flooded and Africa sinking and all that, but hey, thats what we humans do…. adapt to change, constant change.

  8. Mad Insomniac Comment by Mad Insomniac

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    Note to W:

    Just recall our delegation. Recall them now.

    Tell the Ship of Fools in Bali that we need our people to help dig out of the recent snowstorm in DC.

    Goodbye Kyoto, good riddance, and… you and the horse you rode in on. :em96:

  9. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

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    what do you bet there will be some rats going overboard because of the 33 BILLION DOLLAR fine being levied on the treaty signers who fail to meet the reductions?

    world’s largest emitter of greenhouse gases

    no problem just take hardclimbers chili away from him (be careful, its toxic).

    the Kyoto protocol was turned down by the Clinton administration

    not even President Clinton could screwup everything. :em93:

  10. Unregistered Comment by LC Elchonon, Imperial Chief of Civil Disobedience

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    Well, who’s gonna to pay my funeral (g-d forbid) http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/124487
    Thats right lady’s and gents.. they are confinscating all our weapons… I look at my conceald weapons permit with a sad longing look (thanx crunchie!!) and miss the days when I could walk down the street in miami knowing I could and would defend myself…

    Ahhh but as paton said “if you have not what to die for.. you have not what to live for” its only a matter of time some arab stabs us g-d forbid.. hardly a day goes by without the army arresting a arab kid with a 8 or 10 inch knife and conffesing he was going to stab jews.

    “we hold these truth’s to be self evident” gosh.. I know why haym solomon risked his life and was almost killed twice and killed himself from overworking to finance the revolution..

    My buddy got married tonight, his dad is a retired judge in oakland californastan.. he so painfully spoke of runaway judges distorting the constitution..

    If I didnt love eretz yisrael so much, if it wasent so beloved to me that i’d die for it.. i’d run to the USA .. libery and justice how I cry for you..

  11. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

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    Elchonon

    Well, who’s gonna to pay my funeral

    damn, i’m sorry man words fail me in the face of this…… :em98: There Aint No Justice bro, there’s just us.

  12. Brian the sailor Comment by Brian the sailor

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    While I do agree strongly with everything said here, and I have a long record of supporting illegalizing water vapor, I don’t want to leave a screed in comments. I lack the work ethic. Instead I’ll take a different tack.

    It would be morally inexcusable for us as a country to sign a treaty we could never live up to. Especially if the same morons here in the States who are so concerned about climate change won’t let us build nuclear power plants. Morons!

  13. maxxdog Comment by maxxdog

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    What if the Hildabeast or Obama gets the Wh?
    Just because Bill didn’t sign doesn’t mean the bitch wouldn’t.

    Elchonon, that’s unbeleiveable. The fucking world is going mad!

  14. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    not even President Clinton could screwup everything.

    There. Fixed it for ya.

    In keeping with the topic…man’s hubris never ceases to amaze and amuse me. Man thinks he can control the weather? I say, bring it on! Let’s see him outsmart the “guy upstairs.”

    ROFL

  15. Northern Bark Comment by Northern Bark

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    The socialsts realised they couldn’t take us down with force so they found some useful idiots in Greenpeace and the UN to push their cause.

    They scooped up some bullshit and called it climate change and the only cure they will accept is turning the planet into a totalitarian socialist slave state.

    Any sensible solution to cure the bull shit global warming myth is unnacceptible, only dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator will do with elitist Beverly Hill millionaires and banana republic dictators running the show.

    In a feeble attempt to legitimise the Kyoto protocol (which was developed by one of the ‘oil for food’ scammers by the way) the assholes with the East Indian styled fake names and tinny voices proclaim that even China signed on.

    Of course China signed on. They probably couldn’t believe their luck and signed before these fucktards realised what they did.

    Now that bastard son of Kyoto is coming up what are they going to say when the Chinese tells them to just fuck right off?

  16. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Wow. Quite a few Canucks dropping in now. It’s an invasion! (but a good one) :em93:

  17. ACLPoo Comment by ACLPoo

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    OK, I’m naturally opposed to trendy causes du jour, but admittedly uneducated to the real issue. Please forgive me as I nip it in the bud here and now.

    What I’ve been told:

    - Human contributions to record amounts of CO2 are affecting the earth’s ability to filter out the sun’s radiation, causing the mean atmospheric temperature to rise slightly, causing polar ice caps to melt.
    - This increase in CO2 has historically meant that an ice age was about to happen, and happen dramatically, quickly.
    - The recent more extreme weather phenomena, aside from “El Nino”, can be attributed to global warming, which will not only bring extremes, but effectually bring the mean temperature of northern hemispheres down due to melting polar caps releasing water into the atmosphere.
    - Sea levels are going to rise dramatically because of the polar melting.
    - The effects will be coming any day now, not in 1000 years.
    - An almost total majority of the most neutral, non-profit, non-petroleum-funded, objective, scientific organizations of the entire planet agree with most of what I’ve been told.
    - There is something we can do to slow it down.

    What I don’t believe flat out:

    - There is something we can do to slow it down.
    - The effects will be fast/dramatic.

    What I would like to know:

    - Is it all bullshit? Is it partially bullshit? Should I actually be concerned or just ignore it totally?
    - Is my instinct of not believing hippies from the start affecting a logical decision to actually follow sound scientific advice?
    - Could it be that the doomsday tree-huggers could be right, and all their years of crying wolf are just jading me?
    - Despite the carbon credit scams and Al Gore’s flawed logic, is the majority of this doomsday advice political, financial, dramatics designed to feed off peoples’ best intentions?
    - Is it going to get colder here in Canada or warmer?
    - Will all this drama lead to a cleaner environment or lead us away from foreign oil? I’m all for that, it’s not like I hate nature….or will it all just make some people rich, more people gullible, and others who don’t join the bandwagon blindly be treated as scum?
    - Is it a losing battle? What about the CO2 released by volcanoes for millions of years? Are they not as damaging as the human industrial revolution?
    - Is there such a thing as an independent, politics-free source of information that I can find the facts out myself?
    - Is there a reason I have to pay $36,000 on a Prius here in Canada to get 3 mpg better than a Honda Fit for $15,000?
    - Why the hell are we still using internal combustion engines - and is there really an OPEC conspiracy to keep electric/hydrogen/alt fueled cars off the road?
    - Why are people enraged/opposed to nuclear energy, when it’s been the safest most efficient manner of producing energy on this planet for decades? If not nuclear or Hydrogen, then what?

    Sorry for the long post, but I’m a curious beginner. I don’t want to jump on the bandwagon, but I surely don’t want to discount real scientific data like an ignoramus just because I don’t like the cut of a hippy’s jib. The whole nature of the movement doesn’t seem to behave in a “reward the responsible” manner, but rather a “punish the ignorant” manner - which to me spells SCAM.

  18. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    I still haven’t been able to get just ONE of those Leftist fuckheads to explain, precisely and without qualification, just how that fuckin’ 1.5 MILE THICK SHEET OF ICE OVER MANHATTAN happened to melt, quite nicely, without any help, whatsoever, from humans, in the blink of a geologic eye and why, after all of the data actually shows that we’re STILL just coming out of the last Ice Age, I should think that my giving up the Imperial Crew Cab o’ Doom™ would do anything to stop the warming that’s been happening for over 15,000 years.

    They’ve also never been able to answer the question of “You DO realize that being a degree or two warmer will make growing crops in Northern latitudes EASIER and that a degree or two cooler will cause WIDESPREAD FAMINE AND DEATHS BY COLD-RELATED CAUSES, don’t you?”

    And the one, singularly telling question that they can’t, and never will be able to, answer is “Just what, precisely and without qualification, is the “ideal” average temperature of the Earth and when, exactly, was that temperature reached and how long did it last before wavering in one direction or the other?”

    Man, I’m glad that I, quite often, I get to emit more CO2, IN A SINGLE DAY, at work than many people get to emit in their entire lifetimes! :em01:

    Smoke ‘em if ya’ got ‘em, folks!
    :em03:

  19. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    ACLPoo,

    At one time many eons ago, all of southern Illinois was covered in glacier. It receded eventually and that part of the state is now lush and green. There was also a time when Greenland was green. There have been reports of people finding mining equipment in caves in Greenland. At one time the Northwest Passage through the Arctic (IIRC) was open.

    This was all before industrialization, before cars, before those evil JOOOOOOOS lighting too many candles.

    Here’s what I believe:
    1. The earth may very well be warming, but if it is, it’s because of the SUN (and SON), not because of man.
    2. Global warming and cooling goes in cycles. It always has and always will.
    3. One good volcano eruption can put enough crap into the air to change the climate. They are discounted, however, as a source.
    4. Algore and others who fly around in their private jets are likely to do more damage than any of us are.
    5. In the 70s, greenies predicted a global ice age. It never happened. Now, they are predicting a global heat wave. I don’t believe that will happen, either.
    6. Nature is fearfully and wonderously made. God is in control, not man.

  20. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Right now, in this part of flyover country, it’s 27 degrees, and we are digging out from under 3-4 inches of snow. Global warming, anyone?

    :em99:

  21. ACLPoo Comment by ACLPoo

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    So the claim that global warming (however caused) will contribute to colder weather for our hemisphere is bullshit or fact?

  22. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    In my opinion, the whole thing is BS. I have lived in the midwest my entire life (except for two years spent on Okinawa, Japan). I have seen mild winters with little to no snow; I have seen winters with 70-below wind chill and 19 inches of snow. There is no “normal” winter for Nebraska.

    I have seen summers that were so hot they would nearly burn the skin off your feet if you went barefoot, and I’ve seen summers where we had only about two weeks of “hot.” There is no “normal” summer for Nebraska, either.

    We have a couple of sayings:

    1. Don’t like the weather? Wait a few minutes–it’ll change.
    2. Nebraska has two seasons, winter and July.

    We never know what to expect, so we plan accordingly. 8-)

  23. Unregistered Comment by Sandflea

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    It’s now past the point where the argument needs to be settled. Whether the climate’s changing or not, whether we’re doing it or not, there’s enough Goreites out there that governments are going to do something if for no other reason than to buy some peace and quiet from their pious nagging.
    My question is what? In the end, despite all their protestations to the contrary, it is about economics and money. Right now, governments are making the decision that it’s cheaper to pay money for not meeting kyoto targets than it is to actually meet them. But I’ve seen no real hard data about what effect meeting them would have anyway. So is it simply conscience money for those who have one? Is the NZ government going to hand out 1.2 bil simply to make these idiots feel like they’ve done something to ensure their kids’ future? Is it a futile gesture and would it be better spent on R&D tax credits for companies developing better methods of actually dealing with the consequences of change like advanced agriculture or storm proof buildings or relocatable ports to deal with sea level change. Is the light at the end of the kyoto tunnel the daylight or an approaching train that’s going to run us over anyway? My personal opinion, given that the climate models are so fuzzy, is that we have very little chance of arresting the process if it has begun even with the big three of the US, China and India going along with CO2 emission reductions. Given that they’re not, it’s virtually certain that we won’t.
    So, wouldn’t it be better to advance technology and future-proof our economies and infrastructure with the money that would have been spent on lowering emissions or buying carbon credits, which is just wealth redistribution anyway because it allows developed countries to keep emitting by paying others not to?
    I think it’s hoo ha anyway, but I’m not silly enough to think I can swim against the tide of panic and stupidity that is a large part of the AGW alarmist movement. There are some well intentioned and decent people who are doing this with good motives. They’re simply useful idiots and not bad. They’ve bought into this thing with an almost religious fervour and we’re never going to shift that faith now. So, better we get behind a process which will at least advance our technological base rather than simply add another tax/foreign aid item to the budget. Funny how some of the loudest voices in the NGO part of the movement are full of former socialists and we get a scheme from the UN that basically involves income redistribution from the developed to the developing world with no controls on the use of that money. No wonder all the little fish voted for it. They’re gonna make out just fine.
    Some say that it’s just that these people don’t like change and that’s why the idea of a climate being variable is so scary to them. But if they don’t like change, why are they willing to change our whole economy and way of life to avoid (maybe) climate changing slightly?
    I really can’t put a finger on what it is that Gore and his like want, because he’s the type who voted these socialist governments in Oz and NZ in and he’s the type who’re driving the political response. My personal opinion (low) of the bloke aside, he’s not motivated by greed or malice and neither are many of the AGW alarmists. They genuinely believe the world will come to some sort of sticky end and I don’t see any of the predictions to really support that. There seems to be this idea that the earth is a living organism and we’re like a virus. Yet all their arguments are about preventing some sort of human misery causing catastrophe and at the same time saving polar bears. But put an argument about nuclear power and they’re all scared of that too. There doesn’t seem to be any solution they’ll support that doesn’t involve a massive reduction in energy consumption and therefore human development. But they’re willing to support Kyoto even though it’s paying countries to stay inefficient by taxing countries that choose to do nothing about emissions.
    It’s a mystery to me. There’s just no logic to their position, UNLESS….we assume that the prime motivation of some of the political activists behind it involves anti-capitalism. I keep coming back to this conspiracy theory, which I hate doing because I don’t believe in world girdling conspiracies.
    It’s unfortunate that the idea of CO2 as a pollutant has become fixed in so many minds that opposing the GW and Kyoto process is seen as being anti environment. I’m all for reductions in particulate emissions and other pollutants that are part of modern carbon technology. By all means insist on scrubbers etc on power stations. Better yet, stop the shamelessly dishonest scare campaign over nuclear power. There’s a reason the French have the cleanest air in Europe despite their excessive consumption of those noxious Gauloises. Nuclear electricity powering hydrogen generators to run fuel cell cars would be absolutely acceptable to me. Honda have one now with a 100kw fuel cell. It runs like a normal car but emits water vapour. The Germans are using the technology to power a submarine now. I can get behind that. But fucking planting trees is retrograde and antithetic to the development urge that put us where we are and despite some people’s angst about it, where we are is pretty damn good and getting better.
    The IPCC’s latest report states that “changes in modern climate are 90-95% likely to have been in part caused by human action’ ”

    In part caused by. In part. Which part? How big a part? They don’t know, you don’t know and I don’t know. If man stopped emitting CO2 completely, what would happen? Gore and company want us all to buy a pig in a poke. What are they going to do about this? Why should we all decide to burden ourselves with more committees and taxes and fucking bureaucratic circle-jerks if it turns out that we’re 10% of the problem? If we just got on with looking for efficiencies and technology that will proof our economy against warming instead of futile gestures like Kyoto, we’d have a better chance to deal with it. But no, they and all the caring sharing humanists won’t be satisfied until they feel that something’s being done to punish ourselves for the sin of existing. Well fuck that. I don’t feel any shame at being here and if they do, that’s their fucking cross to bear. They should go bear it and stay the fuck out of everybody’s face until they’ve got some hard data instead of ifs, ands, buts or maybes. If it’s warming, how much is us and how much cyclical? If the percentage of it that’s us is significant, what amount of reduction in emissions will mitigate it? If it can be mitigated, what will be the cost to do so? Will we have to kill the patient (human society) to cure him?
    Give me a solid answer to those questions that I can have some confidence in and I’ll start listening. Til then they’re all just another group of well intentioned fascists.
    My argument has been that if we don’t really know what’s happening we should do things based on the knowledge that they will be effective. ie, we should spend time, money and effort on developing the technology to survive the event if it turns out we can’t head it off. Even the most blinkered Goreite would have to admit that the solutions for stopping GW through reduction in CO2 emissions are sketchy at best and likely to be undermined by the Chinese government’s complete disregard for them. I remember a while ago, I said that all these socialists who favoured interventionist government and state control would be talking out the other side of their faces when it was THEM that got intervened with? So, welcome to the future, baby because the Chicoms are building a coal fired plant every three days and they’ll keep doing it. That’s interventionism in action. How does it feel?
    Result of that will be an increasing move to chinese manufacture by countries that can’t meet emissions controls economically. Nett result is that the manufacturing that gets done will be done in China and not the rest of the world and the emissions total will be the same. So, instead of spending billions on nothing but tree planting, we should be spending it on technology that will make us immune to any GW effects because then, if it’s all a giant Y2K furphy, we’ll still have the technology to show for it. If it’s not a furphy, we’ll have spent the money wisely on being prepared.
    The world isn’t changing at all, it’s still full of utopian zealots like the Goreites whose ridiculous, emotion based ideology is constantly being proven to be unworkable by rationality and logic despite the state of denial they all live in. If there’s a selfish egotistical belief at work, it’s their failed collectivist and authoritarian meme. Any time you forego equality of opportunity for equality of outcome, you’ll eventually fail because you’re denying human nature. It’s ironic that people who call themselves humanists have such poor insight into humanity.
    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Give me an authoritative plan that isn’t full of holes like Kyoto and has a realistic appraisal of the proportion of GW due to human influence. Properly cost that plan’s effect on the climate outcomes it will achieve. Gore and his whining fuck mates want to be given the world’s economic reins, show me they’ve got half a clue what to do with them. Right now, every developed country that’s signed Kyoto is in breach of it. There’s a good chance Canada’s going to simply walk away and dare them to do something. This is the dog’s breakfast these fellow travellers come up with and they think anyone is going to have any confidence in them?
    I think AGW’s a crock of shit. I think the proportion of any warming that occurs due to man will be minimal. I think the reductions in emissions of CO2 required to reduce even that little bit would be almost unachievable without massive economic upheaval. Certainly the Chinese alone have the ability to derail any plan they might come up with.
    Now I’m not completely certain I’m not wrong. There’s a chance warming might have some consequences to society that are severe. In light of that I’m proposing we do something to mitigate the effects, if any, of warming. They will say I’m trying to keep an old system but if it involves improvements in technology, isn’t it a new system? Nuclear power for a start. Hydrogen fuel cell technology too. They clean the air and lower CO2 emissions. More intensive use of gene engineered food tech, better telecoms infrastructure, materials handling technology that makes ports more movable. That’s money that has a lasting effect whether warming happens or not and whether the effects of warming are significant or not.
    All they can do is plant fucking trees to hug.
    The new aussie PM Rudd’s an empty vessel. Full of sneering derision for conservatives but nothing substantive. He can go and read IPCC reports and regurgitate them wherever he likes so he sounds like he’s got a clue. It’s all just self aggrandizing palaver. They’ve got no plan, no creativity, nothing original to say at all.
    As I’ve said, morons like Rudd and Gore are a fact of life and there’s enough of them that the pollies are going to do something to shut the whiny fuckers up. My one hope is that whatever is done can be steered in a direction that saves it from being a wasted effort made simply to placate some wastes of space. :em96: :em98:

  24. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Since CO2 is necessary for plants and trees to live, it seems to me that if we restrict the amount of CO2 that is released into our atmosphere, we also restrict the amount of green stuff that grows. The green stuff (as I recall) puts out OXYGEN, which WE need to live.

  25. Unregistered Comment by tweell

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    I see the MSM editors and fact checkers are doing their usual job. China is the world’s most polluting nation, not the USA. Our emissions have dropped considerably. chart

    For curiosity’s sake, which Kyoto signatory nations will actually manage to meet their reduction quotas?It looks like only a few will manage: EU Kyoto

  26. Unregistered Comment by irish19

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    SkyeChild and Sandflea said pretty much everything I would have wanted to say. BTW, Sandflea, WTF is a furphy? I would pick a nit or two. I’m not sold on genetically engineered plants. I do feel that the risks involved outweigh the gains, at least right now. Nuclear power–definitely. Waste storage is an engineering issue that I feel can be dealt with. I would purely love to see very large sums of money spent on fusion research as I feel this is the ultimate solution as far as electricity goes. Fuel-cell powered vehicles have, IMHO, a ways to go to be really practical. Any proposal that does not include China and India is worse than useless for the reasons Sandflea outlined. We all, however, need to find ways to put less shit into the air, water, and soil. Things are better than they were, but we still need to do more. Basic conservation (low-watt fluorescent
    lights, better insulation, &c.) can save lots of energy and ultimately save us all money on energy costs. Renewable energy and such is nice, but it’s not the whole solution. We can, I suspect, reduce greenhouse emissions without flushing our economy down the toilet and without major “reductions” in our lifestyle if we all decide we want to do it and make relatively minor changes in our lifestyle. Something as simple as keeping our vehicles tuned up can have significant effects down the road (as it were). We just have to use our common sense. Better efficiency in everyday things will go a very long way towards achieving what the bureaucrats want to shove down our throats. “Think globally, act locally” may sound trite, but it’s what I feel we all really need to do. Sorry if I’m rambling.

  27. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    It’s the same rubbish, recycled and dressed up in a slightly different way….

    Circa 1966 it was the Population Explosion, slated to destroy civilization with famine, pollution and plague by the year 2000 at the latest. The data was complete, the conclusions were irrefutable, the crisis was at hand and immediate action was necessary or we were all doomed. There was a broad consensus of experts who could not be questioned rationally.

    I believed.

    Then we learned that humans aren’t like rats or bacteria. We not only produce more than we consume, we self-regulate our population levels in accordance with productivity, quality of life and resource availability. Quietly and without fanfare, the crisis passed, while the experts suffered no loss of credibility.

    Then came The Energy Crisis. A new Dark Age was certainly looming. We had to conserve, conserve, conserve and do everything possible to utilize alternative energy sources. Once more, the data, the conclusions, the immediacy and the urgency could not be questioned by any rational person. Another broad consensus of experts coalesced and could not be questioned.

    I believed.

    Then we reassessed and found that we not only had discovered a new wealth of fossil fuels, we were never short of them in the first place. Apart from the formation of Yet Another Federal Agency (the DOE) no one gave the problem much notice anymore.

    Then it was Nuclear Winter. If we didn’t engage in an immediate and unilateral freeze on nuclear stockpiles, we were certainly doomed. Again, the data, etc., was beyond refutation. Experts from Carl Sagan to Douglas Hofstadter were unanimous and unassailable in their views.

    I wasn’t so sure.

    Then the Soviet Union collapsed and the problem simply vanished with nary a shot fired. We learned much later that the KGB had funded most of the effort. The experts tiptoed away, aware that they weren’t likely to suffer criticism while everyone was breathing a sigh of relief.

    Then we were menaced by the Ozone Hole. Gore, then a presidential hopeful, spoke passionately about ozone depletion and the effects already occurring in polar regions. (I remember hearing his famous “nature walk through the Book of Revelation” comments. He relayed stories from unidentified backwoodsmen who were already encountering burned, blinded animals and UV blighted flora. ) The data and the experts we were told…

    Oh, the hell with it.

    It was supposed to take decades for CFCs already in circulation to crest in stratospheric concentration. More severe damage was unavoidable before the human-caused disaster was over.

    Manufacturers recognized a boon in replacing old refrigeration units and Dupont certainly made a great deal of money selling Freon substitutes. The crisis passed and no one thinks much about CFCs or dire predictions anymore.

    And here we go again.

    As with the last several iterations, the US is once more to blame. (While we didn’t cause the Population Explosion, we were at least expected to feel guilty over our affluence when so many millions faced imminent starvation. As to the Energy Crisis, Nuclear Winter and the Ozone Hole, we were entirely at fault. The rest of the world told us so, then as now.)

    Fine.

    I hope we make a commitment, right here to breeder-cycle nuclear reactors, extending our fuel resources for a millennium or more. We can create methanol by sequestering eeeevil greenhouse gases (carbon dioxide and water vapor) and running reactions in those very same breeders. We can use our existing fuel distribution system and quit wasting time with this harebrained “hydrogen economy” nonsense. Methanol can also augment or replace much of the current fossil fuel feedstock for plastic and fertilizer production.

    After a few decades of this, I hope that as a nation we can comfortably stand with hands on our hips and look at the rest of the world and their backslidden, preindustrial environmentally friendly “solutions” and say (in the immortal words of perennial asshole Markos Zuniga):

    Fuck ‘em.

    (It’s just a dream, but one I have often…)

  28. Unregistered Comment by douglasvgibbs

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    I wonder how long before they wise up and bring back a decent leader? If France can do it, just about anyone can.

  29. Unregistered Comment by Sandflea

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    Irish,
    A furphy is an Aussie/kiwi slang term for a battlefield rumour, ie pile of bullshit. It comes from the water carts that carried water to the troops in WW1. They were a cast iron tank made by Furphy and sons originally as a farmers water cart. Troops used to swap rumours etc while filling canteens, like watercooler talk nowadays.
    Link here: http://www.furphys.com.au/legend/water-cart.html

  30. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    Ok… can anyone tell me what happened to the rant I had up?

    Anyone?

    Bueller?

  31. Bill H, Resident Car Guy Comment by Bill H, Resident Car Guy

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    ACLPoo, a couple of short answers to the questions of yours I can answer with some edukashun:

    - Is there a reason I have to pay $36,000 on a Prius here in Canada to get 3 mpg better than a Honda Fit for $15,000?

    Ask yourself this- how much fuel can you buy for that 11K? Then when you’ve come to the end of that equation, look at other factors: How much better do you like one over the other? Does the gov’t offer some sort of financial incentive to buy a hybrid, and does it work for you? Also- does the Prius ‘fit’ (yeah- tacky pun here) into your philosophy? That is a very large reason for Prius owners to buy. IMHO, it just gives most of them an excuse to be insufferably pretentious. If you want what would I think would be an honest opinion of the Prius, ask Psychochick. I think she’s mentioned both her and her husband each have one. I’ll think the Fit would be a better bet from a driver’s view- better drive, handling, brakes and performance. Pretty standard for a Honda, and worth the 3mpg, I’d wager.

    - Why the hell are we still using internal combustion engines - and is there really an OPEC conspiracy to keep electric/hydrogen/alt fueled cars off the road?

    Basically because they’re a known technology that works (after a fashion- most energy produced by an Otto-cycle engine is wasted heat) and most everything else tried to this point is either very polluting, or it just plain sucks in terms of getting the job done. The whole thing behind an I.C. engine is the need to turn energy into work. That explosion at the top of the compression stroke is what releases that energy into a usable mechanical motion. Electric cars, as good as they can be, are still no match for a gasoline (or Diesel) one in terms of efficiency. Think of it this way- that Prius needs the gas motor to get it going, to charge the batteries, and keep it moving at freeway speeds. The electric portion is useful only around town. Hydrogen fuel? Promising, but still about a decade off from true commercial viability. And that’s with a lot of money being poured into the technology by Daimler-Benz, Honda, Ford, and GM. We’ve been playing with alt-fueled cars for decades- what do you think Diesel is? If you’re thinking along the lines of E-85 (ethanol), note that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the ethanol provides, and just what are we going to do with all the corn husks? Not only that, growing corn for ethanol will take up considerable amounts of farmland. With all that, OPEC doesn’t need to lift a finger towards a conspiracy. You wanna know what may put their panties in a bunch? Oil shale. There is some serious talk going on about how oil shale and tar sands may finally be economically viable.

  32. Unregistered Comment by sjr53

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    I beleive you are all on the wrong track here. Even if all you say is right. You just can’t fix STUPID. It can be exploited, however. I think the world has gone past the tipping point of being fixable. I say, let the STUPID people have control of things and lets get it over with. Dream up a marketing plan to the STUPID like many companies are now doing and put together a survival kit for when STUPID brings about the inevitable bad ending. Find a way to enjoy the ride down the super duper STUPID slide. I know I’m sick and tired of being pissed off about STUPID usually winning the day.

    If you can’t beat em, join em. Or at least give the appearance of joining them. Keep in mind that making STUPID happy will cause an initial bump of economic prosperity. Find a way to exploit it and invest the profits in real assets that will get you through the eventual anarchy. I officially fucking give up.

  33. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    irish19,

    Assuming my post resurfaces, this will make a bit more sense.

    First, we already have most of the technology to be energy independent, in the form of fast breeder reactors. (The waste “ash” from these is much more short lived than that of current reactors.)

    Hydrogen fusion, despite decades of well-funded research, development and entire careers devoted to projects as the tokamak, remains elusive as an energy source. (Or maybe not.) Regardless, throwing large sums of money at the problem isn’t likely to produce a practical result in the time frame we want.

    Conservation is important. But beware the snake oil that’s being peddled about “green” lighting. First, domestic lighting doesn’t consume all that much energy compared to HVAC, water heating and refrigeration. Second, there are some things about fluorescents you might want to keep in your magazine the next time someone tells you how environmentally conscious it is to use them.

    (It might be fun to watch Congress try to ban incandescent light bulbs in favor of fluoros — if they weren’t so fucking stupid as to realize that both are on the verge of obsolescence. Then again, nothing seems beneath them, as I remind myself every time I double flush my 1.6 gpf Congressionally-approved, municipal-water-saving toilet using my well water into my septic system. But I digress.)

    My point is that we have all that we need technologically to cut carbon emissions (for what that may be worth), improve our standard of living and tell the rest of the world (including OPEC) to piss off. We simply have to find the will to pick up the tools.

  34. psychochick, LC Comment by psychochick, LC

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    I hate it my posts get eaten while Googling. It’s a bummer I don’t own any guns (but there are those sharp knives…)

    BillH
    Thanks for suggesting I might have an objective opinion. We liked our first one enough to wait 6 months to buy the second

    1) cost: a basic Prius is 23K in the US. It seems odd that it would be 36K in Canada. The only thing I can think of is that when there was a shortage of them here, they sold only the luxury package for 27K. Is there a huge demand for them? It would be worth it to get a 15K car, in that case.

    2) mileage: I understand the highway argument, but somehow I was getting 50 mpg when commuting 40 highway miles. Then I started driving 80 (shhh). Then my mileage went down to 43.

    3) performance: My first generation is a little slow accelerating. The newer ones are not. Spouse is 6′4″ and quite happy with his. I seem to have let my consumerrepports.org lapse, but I seem to remember them being considered one of the top 10 cars. We rented a Chevy Malibu, and he found the performance so bad compared to his Prius, that he called it the “flounder.”

    4) battery issues: so far, they have been lasting the life of the car. I think they are nickel, not nickel cadmium, so they are recyclable and not as evil as people thought.

    5) negatives: service is expensive, and in most places, you are stuck with the dealer, since most people don’t know how to deal with the hybrid engine. My older model blows in the wind horribly–that’s my only major complaint. The new ones aren’t as bad.

    Out here, they don’t have bumper stickers.

  35. Unregistered Comment by Sunfish

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    Is it all bullshit? Is it partially bullshit? Should I actually be concerned or just ignore it totally?

    Extreme statements and extreme predictions are usually bullshit. Some degree of concern is probably not out of bounds.

    - Is my instinct of not believing hippies from the start affecting a logical decision to actually follow sound scientific advice?
    - Could it be that the doomsday tree-huggers could be right, and all their years of crying wolf are just jading me?

    Even broken clocks are right every now and then. Al Bore is about as trustworthy as a thirty-dollar-bill with Billy Graham’s pciture on it, but simple randomness would mean that he would have to be right about something, eventually. No idea if this is it, though.

    - Despite the carbon credit scams and Al Gore’s flawed logic, is the majority of this doomsday advice political, financial, dramatics designed to feed off peoples’ best intentions?

    I suspect so. I believe that at least part of the hysteria is motivated by the fact that hysterical people are easily bullied or led, and the Usual Suspects are a bunch of power-hungry scum.

    - Is it going to get colder here in Canada or warmer?

    Plan on getting colder for at least another few months.

  36. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    Well, it looks like my first comment may be gone for good.

    To make a very long rant short(er):

    Every phony, doomsday crisis that’s come down the pike since the 1960s (the Population Explosion, The Energy Crisis, Nuclear Winter and The Ozone Hole) shares certain features with Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW)/Climate Change.

    Each of these crises and their predictions were as urgent and terrible as AGW. Each demanded immediate and radical action. Each was ultimately revealed as fraud, but no one was ever held accountable. Each, however, spawned a politically powerful movement dedicated to staving off disaster.

    Not coincidentally, each of these also held the United States directly responsible for doomsday. (The exception was the Population Explosion. There, we were only supposed to feel guilty while the rest of the world starved.)

    Since the rest of the world hates us anyway, my humble suggestion is this: We should exploit our considerable nuclear technology and existing fossil fuel reserves to render imported oil insignificant through the production of methanol and extraction of usable hydrocarbons. (A nuclear-methanol system has the additional benefit of “recycling” CO2 from the atmosphere, making it “carbon neutral.”)

    Nothing would give me more satisfaction than an energy-independent, methanol guzzling (Hah!) United States moving forward as the rest of the world slides back down a path ankle deep in horseshit.

  37. LCBrendan Comment by LCBrendan

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    *bangs head on desk*

    I

    :em98:

    didn’t

    :em98:

    Vote

    :em98:

    for this

    :em98:

    IMBECILE.

    :em98:

    …ow….. :em38:

    He has royally screwed us over, and when the economic pain hits, all of a sudden little Kevvie won’t be the darling of the little leftie luvvies any more.

    This may be of interest

    U.N. Blackballs International Scientists from Climate Change Conference
    Voice of dissent excluded from participation in Bali
    Written By: Tom Swiss
    Published In: News Releases
    Publication Date: December 4, 2007
    Publisher: The Heartland Institute

    (CHICAGO, Illinois - December 5, 2007) — The United Nations has rejected all attempts by a group of dissenting scientists seeking to present information at the climate change conference taking place in Bali, Indonesia.

    The International Climate Science Coalition (ICSC) has been denied the opportunity to present at panel discussions, side events, and exhibits; its members were denied press credentials. The group consists of distinguished scientists from Africa, Australia, India, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

    The scientists, citing pivotal evidence on climate change published in peer-reviewed journals, have expressed their opposition to the UN’s alarmist theory of anthropogenic global warming. As the debate on man-made global warming has been heating up, the UN has tried to freeze out the scientists and new evidence, summarily dismissing them with the claim “the science is settled.”

    James M. Taylor, senior fellow for The Heartland Institute explained, “It is not surprising the UN has completely rejected dissenting voices. They have been doing this for years. The censorship of scientists is necessary to promote their political agenda. After the science reversed on the alarmist crowd, they claimed ‘the debate is over’ to serve their wealth redistribution agenda.”

    Taylor continued, “For example, ICSC scientist Dr. Vincent Gray recently published Unsound Science by the IPCC, which proves the main claims by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change are scientifically unsound. Dr. Gray is an expert reviewer for the IPCC and has submitted more than 1,800 comments on IPCC reports. He is an expert on the IPCC methodology and published Spinning the Climate.

    “Dr. Gray is the last person the politicized UN wants speaking,” Taylor noted. “He single-handedly debunks the entire alarmist theory. And there are more than 600 Dr. Grays trying to be the voice of reason and science. All are being censored.”

    Tayor said, “The ICSC scientists don’t agree with the pre-determined ‘Bali Mandate,’ so instead of discussion and debate, we get censorship. Until the UN rejects the politicization of climate change, their reports, protocols, and mandates aren’t worth reading–much less ratifying.”

    The ICSC scientists will be available for advice and counsel in Bali, but they expect scientists to be ignored at the Bali conference.

    Editors and reporters: For more information …

    The ICSC scientists are staying at the Inna Putri Hotel in Bali, telephone 62 361 771 020

    Alternatively, they may be reached for comment by email or possibly mobile phone:

    Bryan Leyland (ICSC Team Leader)
    64 21 978 996
    bryanleyland@mac.com

    Christopher Monckton (Spokesman)
    44 798 063 4784
    monckton@mail.com

    Vincent Gray (IPCC Expert Reviewer)
    vinmary.gray@paradise.net.nz

    Greg Balle (Executive Director)
    64 21 250 5340
    greg.balle@climatescienceinternational.org

    For more information about The Heartland Institute, please contact Tom Swiss, public relations director, at 312 / 377-4000, email tswiss@heartland.org.

    Looks like the UN doesn’t like dissent.

  38. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    Looks like the UN doesn’t like dissent.

    Hmmm…. when you think of Global Warming as a religion, it all seems vaguely familiar

  39. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

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    Well Folks, two days ago, we received 50 cm of global warming in the course of 20 hrs here in New Brunswick. And it seems we have a forecast of snowfalls for the next week or so, a little here, a little there, adds up damn quick… ACLPoo is probably happy he’s missing out on this stuff!

    However, as I mentionned in my #2, and seeing how the “dissenters” are NOT allowed to speak, it seems pretty clear that this myth has now reached the status of dogma. Expensive dogma at that…

    And in my case, my perspective on the whole GW bull is money and control. The Unbeliveable Numbnuts are very anxious to dictate terms and there is that 33 BILLIONS dollars fine that seems to be the only “raison d’etre” of the whole thing. Money and power, pure and simple…

    And the reason our cars are more expensive here than in the U.S., taxes!!! Our government loves to collect taxes, and it gets quite creative in finding new ways to gouge us at every turn. Instead of saying “Geez, the Americans pay a lot less for the same car” our citizens should be asking “Damn, how come WE have to pay more for the same thing!?!?”. But again, that would mean someone would have to get off their butts and force a change. Wouldn’t want to upset the bureaucrats now, would we..?

  40. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

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    LCBrendan

    *bangs head on desk*

    Euh, you have a big lump on your forehead…

    Agreed. But when your fellow citizens actually realize what has happened to them, it’ll be too late.

    And because those scientists are being censored, I now am convinced of the complete sham this GW nonsense really is. If those so anxious to push this issue down our throats allowed a dissenting voice and let the people of the interested nations decide, it would be a different matter.

    Money, money, money.

  41. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

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    Bill H the prius is poorly designed in order to get less mileage than it should. i think it was 1967 when Popular Mechanics had an article about a man in florida who had built his own electric car using a diesel irrigation pump motor, a generator and a 100hp electric motor. the diesel burned one gallon of fuel per hour at best rpm setting and only ran as needed to keep the batteries charged. in his two ton ford he could drive on the interstate at 85mph. at 35mph the diesel only ran about half the time, dropping the mpg to 70.

    growing corn for ethanol will take up considerable amounts of farmland

    in the U.S. we are paying farmers to NOT grow crops. we could have millions of TONS of corn growing by next summer.

    note that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the ethanol provides, and just what are we going to do with all the corn husks?

    it does not take oil to distill alcohol electricity works just fine. and considering the cost of extension cords alcohol is a better means of transferring energy from hydroelectric dams to your car. the leftover mash is not toxic waste, it is high quality animal feed and sells for more than the corn used to make it. speaking of toxic waste, ethanol is not a biohazard. if spilled just let it evaporate, no pollution. mileage is about 65% of gasoline. on an old carburetor you simply bore out the jets slightly and your ready to go. at 25 miles per two gallons versus 20mph with gas the price is about equal and makes less air pollution. as for the husks and stalks cows eat that too, the price of high quality beef should drop like a rock. btw alcohol can be vacumn distilled at low temperatures using far less energy than high-temp oil distillers or did you think that was free?

  42. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Ok… can anyone tell me what happened to the rant I had up?

    Anyone?

    Bueller?

    For some silly reason, Akismet stuck it in moderation and, since I’ve been away from the keyboard for a bit, it was still there this morning.

    EXCELLENT summary, by the way!

    I invite all and sundry to backtrack up to comment# 27 and read Moriarty’s spot-on commentary.

    Nothing else needs to be said, really.

  43. Unregistered Comment by Erin Coda

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    Late to the party, as usual, but hopefully not too late to toss a token bench (or three) into the fray.

    First, for Soldier in God’s Army, I respectfully request that you clean that brush just a bit before you attempt to paint all scientists with it. All that data which OPPOSES the current global warming hype came from OTHER SCIENTISTS, many of whom are just as sick of the crap as you are. Probably even more so, because bad science, cooked data, and corporate butt-kissing really give the rest of us a bad name. :em58: Global warming is a HYPOTHESIS, and honest scientists– even the true-believer types– will treat it that way and not shy away from the academic cage match that follows. There’s a reason I know this– I’m a science nerd myself, and I’ll be glad to share a few pitchers of Bad Science Sangria(tm) while we sit down and watch the overblown disaster movie this whole debate has become. :em03:

    Second, for ACLPoo– if you have the time and the inclination, you may want to pick up a copy of Michael Crichton’s “State of Fear”. Yeah, it’s a techno-thriller kind of thing, but the background of the story is all about how the global warming scare has taken over the world (and why), when in fact there is a lot of data to oppose it. Come to think of it, SIGA may want to read it too– I think there’s a list of sources in the back with scientists’ names and papers.

    And about that Prius, I’ve said this before– when the time comes for me to buy a car, I will do the responsible thing and buy a used 100% recycled model that has as many good miles left on it as a new Prius, but without the added environmental burden of a new manufacture and all the associated shipping costs. But that’s just me.

    Erin

  44. Kristopher, LC Comment by Kristopher, LC

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    The only way Australia can meet this new obligation is by beginning a crash program to build new nuclear reactors.

    Congrats, Aussies! :em99:

  45. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

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    The only way Australia can meet this new obligation is by beginning a crash program to build new nuclear reactors.

    At the cost of how many millions (per reactor) and how many would be needed.

    This mythical dogma is getting mighty expensive quick, isn’t it!?!?

  46. Mad Insomniac Comment by Mad Insomniac

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    Not so fast, Kev: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22883548-662,00.html

    Another “ecocrat” mugged by reality. :em41: Boortz is on about this to-day, as well he should be.

  47. kwongdzu Comment by kwongdzu

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    I think it all has to do with the fact that (apparently) kangaroos don’t fart. Either that, or they don’t fart much or they fart something other than methane. Anyway, those who embrace the global warming religion are eyeing kangaroos as the environmentally friendly meat du jour. Yep. They want to replace our cows with kangaroos. Giant mice with pockets. I don’t want to eat one of those.

  48. psychochick, LC Comment by psychochick, LC

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    Erin
    I wouldn’t take SIGA’s science comments too personally. He has said before that he has made nasty comments about scientists to get me to “bite” (draw me out). Ironic, coming from a scary lion. That was before you joined. Except for the doctors, I think DukeFenton, Fanusi, and I were the only scientists, but I could be wrong.

  49. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

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    psychochick, LC

    I think DukeFenton, Fanusi, and I were the only scientists, but I could be wrong.

    Would the gathering and assembly of various body parts from mortuaries and morgues, along with using electricity to try to revive the newly put-together body qualify me as a “scientist”..? :em01: So far, the only success I had was a large guy with bolts juting out of his neck, but he helps around the house…

    And don’t forget my chili, it takes real science to be able to produce a chili that will make an arsehole burst into flames! :em99:

  50. psychochick, LC Comment by psychochick, LC

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    HC
    Hey, seems like a sound application of scientific process. I think you need to part with a picture!

    Personally, I would not want chili to have that effect on ME! I do have a fire phobia, after all.

  51. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Hardclimber said:

    And don’t forget my chili, it takes real science to be able to produce a chili that will make an arsehole burst into flames!

    Through our network of Imperial Sooper Seekrit Sleuths™, we’ve managed to obtain a picture of one of Hardclimber’s old buddy’s sitting on the throne after sampling one of the more “intense” batches of his RAF Rectum Rocket Fuel™.

    HardClimber’s RAF Buddy “The Morning After”

  52. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    PC said:

    HC
    Hey, seems like a sound application of scientific process. I think you need to part with a picture!

    Daaaayum! Am I psycho psychic or what?

    :em99:

  53. hilljohnny Comment by hilljohnny

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    BC in the picture i detect two flame trails. is that what makes canadian pilots so special?? :em95: :em01: :em99:

  54. LC 0311 crunchie I.M.H. Comment by LC 0311 crunchie I.M.H.

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    BC

    :em01: Brilliant as always sir.

    hilljohnny
    :em01: :em01: :em99: Better ask Hardclimber!

  55. Unregistered Comment by Erin Coda

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    Hardclimber, you’re so efficient– looks like I’m going to have to grow my own from scratch. How ’bout you bring the chili, I’ll bring the sangria, and we can swap notes? I’m not afraid of the “thundering chair” effect– if it’s good enough for Bill Whittle, it’s good enough for me. :em99:

    Erin

  56. SoldierInGodsArmy Comment by SoldierInGodsArmy

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    psychochick, LC

    Erin
    I wouldn’t take SIGA’s science comments too personally. He has said before that he has made nasty comments about scientists to get me to “bite” (draw me out). Ironic, coming from a scary lion. That was before you joined. Except for the doctors, I think DukeFenton, Fanusi, and I were the only scientists, but I could be wrong.

    True that most research scientists work in a lab, I also happen to own one.

    What fucking luck :em01:

    And I wholeheartedly disagree that the lion is scary.

  57. psychochick, LC Comment by psychochick, LC

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    SIGA
    I admit to the grave sin of jealousy. You own a lab! I thought you were working on some arts intellectual cross-breeding (not that you can’t also own a lab). What do you do? I’ve thought about having a lab to isolate plant compounds of commercial interest–be kind of pricey to set up, though.

    Okay, as far as lions go, that one may not be scary. But I would argue that any lion by definition is scary. So there.

    By the way, did you know there is a SIGA on YouTube who does fundamentalist satirical rants? You would probably like the one on vegans and PETA. I wrote him to see if he was you, but he said he has never posted on a blog.

  58. LC Hardclimber54 Comment by LC Hardclimber54

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    hilljohnny

    i detect two flame trails. is that what makes canadian pilots so special??

    Actually, no, what makes us “so special” is the fact that we’re so darn handsome and polite… :em99:

    Actually, the picture depicts two events. First, the initial ignition burst, signalling the start of of longer burn caused by escaping flaming gases… The secret is to maintain just enough pressure to prevent a flash back. This would cause some serious heartburns… That chili was hot! :em01:

    Erin Coda

    Is your sangria home-made!? I’m in! Actually, a bit of fluid to douse the flames isn’t a bad idea…

  59. SoldierInGodsArmy Comment by SoldierInGodsArmy

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    SIGA
    I admit to the grave sin of jealousy. You own a lab! I thought you were working on some arts intellectual cross-breeding (not that you can’t also own a lab). What do you do? I’ve thought about having a lab to isolate plant compounds of commercial interest–be kind of pricey to set up, though.

    I started the lab in 2001 and it became a “force” in biochemistry in 2003. Current projects include R&D in Health & Beauty and development of new extraction processes for rare botanical medicinals.

    The lab has since expanded to incorporate high-technology solutions in other fields such as biometrics, supercomputing and the tactical integration of multi-disciplinary research teams. We transparently produce solutions for numerous manufactures and developers allowing the fame to be enjoyed by the clients.

    Okay, as far as lions go, that one may not be scary. But I would argue that any lion by definition is scary. So there.

    Stare at the graphic for a moment with the perspective that He is your protector, thus anyone wanting to harm you, has to get through Him first. The warm fuzzies should subsequently cover your body in what is commonly known as “goose-bumps”, nuff said.

    By the way, did you know there is a SIGA on YouTube who does fundamentalist satirical rants? You would probably like the one on vegans and PETA. I wrote him to see if he was you, but he said he has never posted on a blog.

    I consider myself a private person and do not aspire to fame and glory via YouTube; that may be the case solely based on my inability to be funny enough to pull it off. After a bit of research on your “suspect”, I found the following somewhat, um, relative…

    On March 19, 1940, in a letter to the New York Times, Albert Einstein is quoted, in part, “Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence and fulfills the duty to express the results of his thought in clear form.”

    The very next year, also in New York while at the Symposium Science, Philosophy and Religion: Einstein, had this to add… “But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

    That was then, this is now.

  60. psychochick, LC Comment by psychochick, LC

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    SIGA
    Hi–it is so nice to have you back, by the way.

    Okay, I won’t argue lion as protector. I’m sure that is rife with all sorts of symbolism that eludes me.

    1)

    “But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding.

    2)

    This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion.

    To me, these are two separate things. I agree strongly with no. 1 and obviously not with no. 2.
    However, who can argue with Einstein? It seems subversive.

    ———
    Before you had said that you left science, although that doesn’t mean you couldn’t have a company chugging along under it’s own management. To be honest, your list of research areas seems very broad. Any chance of discussing the plant extractions with you? I keep several Rottie’s weird predilictions private (not that you have such things, of course :em95: .) If you’re feeling adventurous, you are welcome to join me at tetrodotoxin2 yahoo and discuss plants (or many other things). Maybe you could isolate epigallocatechin gallate for me, although it would probably be cheaper for me to fight with green tea and our old HPLC.

  61. SoldierInGodsArmy Comment by SoldierInGodsArmy

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    psychochick,

    Nice to be back, but only for a while. I have a busy travel itinerary the next 4 months .

    Before you had said that you left science, although that doesn’t mean you couldn’t have a company chugging along under its own management. To be honest, your list of research areas seems very broad. Any chance of discussing the plant extractions with you? I keep several Rottie’s weird predilictions private (not that you have such things, of course .) If you’re feeling adventurous, you are welcome to join me at tetrodotoxin2 yahoo and discuss plants (or many other things). Maybe you could isolate epigallocatechin gallate for me, although it would probably be cheaper for me to fight with green tea and our old HPLC.

    I left institutional science. Working for the man. Good riddens. I do firmly believe that there is no such thing as leaving science. It is either in your blood, or it is not.

    My research is indeed broad, but not as broad as you think. My wife is the resident biochemist and lab manager, not I. It would be her you would want to chat with regarding all things botanical. You are correct in assuming the most cost effective route to get your EGCG; my condolences on your “old HPLC”. The right tool for the right job my dad always said.

    If you recall, I am a math/physics guy. I did tinker with some molecular biology for a while simply because the mathematics of DNA fascinates me so. My current work is high technology solutions and integration. Algorithms are what I live for. Yeah, I know, a real fucking geek.

    Out of curiosity, what work do you need the EGCG for? You aren’t trying to cure cancer to eradicate AIDS are you? Should I get your autograph now, while it is still free?