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At Least They’re Kind Stupid Enough to Brag About It
Posted by: Emperor Misha I in Democrat Arses, Lefty America-Haters, Politics, Traitors1:40 PM
Having always been the optimistic, glass-half-full sort of fellow that we are, we find it an immense relief to learn that it is no longer open to discussion whether Democrats are deliberately undermining the war, backstabbing our troops and working overtime to create another Viet Nam.
How is that, you say? Well, for one thing because they’re openly bragging about it (link thanks to LC Juandos):
WASHINGTON - After Republicans blocked a Senate debate for a second time, Democrats said Saturday they’ll drop efforts to pass a non-binding resolution opposing President Bush’s troop buildup in Iraq and instead will offer a flurry of anti-war legislation “just like in the days of Vietnam.”
The tough talk came a day after the House of Representatives passed its own anti-Iraq resolution and as the GOP used a procedural vote to stop the Senate from taking a position on the 21,500 troop increase.
Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said Democrats would be “relentless.”
“There will be resolution after resolution, amendment after amendment . . . just like in the days of Vietnam,” Schumer said. “The pressure will mount, the president will find he has no strategy, he will have to change his strategy and the vast majority of our troops will be taken out of harm’s way and come home.” [Emphases ours — Emp.M.]
Dirty Harry Reid, silently cursing the fact that nobody had given Upchuck Schumer his Thorazine that morning, was a bit more circumspect:
Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said: “We’re going to move on to other things.”
Thanks to the rantings and ravings of Upchuck, we now know exactly what those “other things” are.
What we find amazing about this is that, not only are the Democrats openly admitting to treason by saying that their goal is to bring about a defeat “just like the days of Viet Nam”, they also seem to be quite proud of the fact. Apparently they are so locked into their “reality-based” fantasy land that they actually believe nobody would care, that their open admission to backstabbing and cowardice would make them more popular.
Democrats had hoped that if enough Senate Republicans felt pressured by the House vote and with national polling showing support for the resolution, they might let a debate go ahead this time. If not, Democrats would have more ammunition to criticize Republicans for backing an unpopular war.
We don’t know what polls they are referring to, but we suspect that they’ve been looking in the historical archives rather than using the ones actually out right now. Let’s face it, they’re so stuck in the late 60s/early 70s that they haven’t even noticed the 30+ years that have passed since then.
Republicans Sens. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, John Warner of Virginia, Olympia Snowe of Maine, Gordon Smith of Oregon and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania sided with Democrats in calling for debate to begin, as did the two Republicans already on board, Sens. Norm Coleman, R-Minn., and Susan Collins, R-Maine.
Looks like a few more candidates for “Cold Fury’s” shit list. It is also worth noting that the only ones named above NOT up for re-election termination in 2008 are Snowe and Specter. And if you’re still unsure whether the 7 RINOs are, indeed, RINOs worthy of termination, then this sentence should straighten you out:
Independent Democrat Joe Lieberman of Connecticut joined the 33 Republicans to block the vote.
They’re all seven of them to the left of Lieberman (and G-d Bless Joe, with whom we barely ever agree on anything else, for having the testicular fortitude, alone among Democrats, to stand by his word without an eye to political expediency).
The rest of them and their RINO collaborators are worthless, backstabbing swine who, unable to muster the courage to call for a simple up or down vote on the war, choose to sneak around in the shadows, deliberately undermining the war, placing our troops in mortal danger in order to maintain “plausible deniability.”
They would rather be directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of our sons, daughter, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters than stand up and openly admit to their goal since that might put their incumbent, fat arses in danger of being booted out of their comfortable seats and the bribes that go with them.
Just like in the days of Viet Nam, by their own admission.
Try them and, if found guilty, hang them.
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You know something? I’m increasingly of the opinion that if the Islamofascists destroyed Congress, they just might be doing us a favor… :furious_tb:
I’m getting sick and tired of people voting in these treasonous dogs (although perhaps I shouldn’t denigrate such a fine animal) and then bitching about it when they follow their own damn agenda instead of doing the job we send them to do.
Thus spake Lord Fluffles the Crispy.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:04 PMUsing
It makes me sick to say this but I find myself more and more hoping for a military coup.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:13 PMUsing
While I won’t go as far as gunsniper, it does make me physically ill to know that our elected officials will go to any length to undermine us. For purely political reasons! That’s what truly sickens me.
Pretending to have our best interests at heart. Bullshit.
Right, just surrender, pull out and let the blood bath begin.
Not on my watch…assholes.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:19 PMUsing
I can’t quite go as far as gunsniper either… but at the same time, I can hardly imagine such an event actually being WORSE than the crap we have now. It probably would be, but I’m so sick and tired of the current crap I have a hard time believing it.
RH
February 18th, 2007 at 2:23 PMUsing
Not “if”.
When.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:31 PMUsing
Via Gall and Wormwood
Brave Sir Robin ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its
ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Robin
turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!
~ ~ ~ * ~ ~ ~
He is packing it in and packing it up
February 18th, 2007 at 3:22 PMAnd sneaking away and buggering up
And chickening out and pissing off home,
Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge…
Using
Norm Coleman, in any other state but Minnesota, a classic RINO. Here he’s considered a hard right neo-con. Also if you want him gone, consider this: Senator Al Franken (D-MN)
February 18th, 2007 at 4:10 PMUsing
Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said Democrats would be “relentless.”
Treason, it seems, like rust, never sleeps.
Given the fact that no other animal has the survival instincts of a congresscritter, you might think that somewhere, in the deepest recessess of their tiny little minds, it would occur to them that people who are trained to kill in so many ways are not the best people to piss off. You can only smack a patient man so many times before the response becomes a right cross instead of “Thank you sir, may I have another?” If Schmuckie and company are the best our republic can muster, then we are indeed in deep trouble.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:17 PMUsing
I was thinking that myself, along with the fact that there are a LOT of us out here.
The traitors are betting on mental programming/conditioning and safeties, which isn’t a bad bet. They’re quite effective, thank G-d. They’re not infallible, however.
For all of my hatred of the bastards in DC, I’d rather not that it came to that. Our nation is much too precious for me to even think about welcoming such a turn of events. A House Divided, and all that, words as true now as they ever were.
Which serves to make me despise the bastards even more, because they’re pushing for the day when that will become the ugly reality in which we live. And they’re pushing hard. We have enough on our plate. We don’t need to have to deal with that too.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:39 PMUsing
Point well taken.
That’s what primaries are for.
And, in the end, which would you like better (or hate the least): The traitor you know or the traitor who’s pissing on your head while telling you that it’s raining?
What good is a Democrat with an R next to his name?
February 18th, 2007 at 4:42 PMUsing
Okay, so I am bored…
First, the “war” was over when Bushnuts told us that “major combat operations were over”. Saddam has been not only toppled, but tried, convicted, hung, and buried away forever. The proper legal definition for our presence in Iraq right now is an occupation. (see 3a and 3b)
What the Democrats (and over 70 percent of the country) want to do is end the occupation of Iraq and re-deploy our troops back to where they should have been in the first place — Afghanistan.
As far as creating another Viet Nam, like LBJ lying about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to escalate the war in Vietnam, Bush lied about a whole litany of things to drag us into Iraq — ignoring all of the experts who tried to tell him that we would end up with exactly what we have today — a civil war between factions that have hated each other for hundreds of years.
You don’t “backstab” the troops by taking them out of harms way. You only backstab them by leaving them in a situation that you know is unwinable just to get through to the next election.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:22 PMUsing
Do you remember these bastards posing on the Capitol steps singing God Bless America after 9/11? I’ll bet they couldn’t sing it without that teleprompter sitting off camera….and I’ll bet more than a few of them had to swallow hard to sing about blessing America.
Hell, we’re not gonna hang ‘em, stop saying that….jeez, we don’t even have the stomach to hang scum like manson, hinckley, and taliban johnny lindh..or ANY of the “detainees” at Gitmo. We as a society don’t even have the stomach to put our petty ideaologies aside to focus on defeating an enemy far FAR more dangerous that hitler could have ever dreamed. This country won’t fall in an invasion of jihadis, it will fall as a result of WMD attacks on our urban centers…and our ports…and our farmlands. It will fall because it’s being given away to foreign interests, foreign interests with ties to the islamonazis, foreign interests who have their hands in the pockets of these bastard democrats and rinos. They’ve got all their bases covered, so they can say and do anything they want…and America be damned
Now, I know that I’m not the only one here who knows military folk and their families. I know a couple of guys over there right now, second and third tours respectively….and I grieve for them all today. They are committed to the mission and suffer great hardship to make that mission a success. They’ve seen their buddies die, and lose limbs or worse. They’ve seen the primitive savagery visited on innocent women and children by their enemy, whom their “representatives” at home openly give aid and comfort to.
Now they get stabbed in the back, by those same “representatives”, purely because those “representatives” hate the president and want to see him fail….but do you know what the true irony is here? If those troops DO have to come home in defeat (not of their own doing), they won’t bring their guns to bear on the institutions of the government that wasted their time and their comrades. They won’t do that because they are BETTER than those who govern them. They know what makes America great, and ANY kind of third world coup will diminish the greatness of this nation, and they know that.
So what we should do is to recruit the cream of those heroes, and put them in the seats of government. Let those who know what makes America great, let those who ARE the greatness of America run the show for a while. Perhaps they’ll see fit to change the rules and give the devils who now rule their due….with unquestioned finality.
Any of you heroes interested in turning this country around from the inside???
February 18th, 2007 at 5:26 PMUsing
ooh! ooh! Now there’s a dark thought…
Then again considering the fact that morons in Minnesota elected Keith “bigoted mooselimb” Ellison to Congress, its not to big of a stretch to think the same sort of morons will send Al “I’m glad management stole from children to round out my paychecks” Franken to the Senate…
This is a bit off topic but its both a bit of twisted humor and irony all wrapped in one…
As you know this month is Black History Month but did you also know its that its return shopping carts to supermarket month?
Just saying is all…
I kid thee not…
February 18th, 2007 at 5:34 PMUsing
Come on deej, even you aren’t stupid enough to trot out that old “bush lied kids died” bullcrap HERE are you? I mean, you may convince people with that “logic” over at dhimmicratic underpants or the daily kommunist urinal but surely you aren’t stupid enough to think that we really are going to look at that crap and fall for it… are you?
And even IF your figures are right (which I doubt) it wouldn’t matter if 99.99999% of the countty wanted to run away pissing their panties like poorly potty trained infants. Trying to usurp executive power is STILL treason no matter how you slice it or try to justify it.
RH
February 18th, 2007 at 5:42 PMUsing
Any heroes? Good luck getting elected. A double digit percentage of the population believe that Bush planned 9/11. They can’t make up their minds whether he’s a flaming moron, or has organized the biggest successful conspiracy of all time.
CAIR comes out and whines about 24 showing muslims as terrorists - they should have been laughed at by everybody. But much hand-wringing ensued.
Frankly, the lack of reasoning and critical thinking skills in our average citizen is appalling. No doubt a direct and perhaps deliberate result of Publik Skoolz. Conservatives everywhere long for the days of Ronaldus Maximus (including me), but he wouldn’t even get elected today.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:45 PMUsing
ITW DJA:
I would’ve guessed the Wizard at least too smart to be taken in by this tiresome “Bush lied” canard.
And who were these many experts? Bush obviously wanted to fail, of course, so everyone would hate him & vote for the Jackass Party!
Hey, let’s not backstab our troops–let’s backstab our allies! As for “a situation you know is unwin[n]able”–that basically begs the question, especially if you rely on the Lamestream Mediots. Now if you want to argue the ROE with the LCs, that’s something else.
February 18th, 2007 at 6:04 PMUsing
Oh heck, I don’t expect to convince anyone here. I gave that up a long time ago.
It’s a lot like going into my son’s area of the house and tell him that it’s a mess and full of garbage, and he will tell me that it is very organized and that NONE of it is garbage. (you be the judge)
The point is, it is all about perspective. You think that things are going well in Iraq and we are doing “good things”. The rest of us feel we are doing more harm than good now and we need to get out.
The Executive is just one-third of the government. The Legislative Branch still holds the power of the purse according to the Constitution.
But while we are on the topic of “backstabbing” the troops, has anyone here caught the following article?
Soldiers Face Neglect, Frustration At Army’s Top Medical Facility
Smart enough not to fall for the WMD canard.
Well, let’s see, just about everyone who stood up against going into Iraq in the first place and were subsequently called “traitors”. Pretty much everything Scott Ritter talked about in 2002 and 2003 has come true. Hell, Bush didn’t even know that there was a difference between Sunnis and Shiites until after he invaded.
We still have allies?
February 18th, 2007 at 6:52 PMUsing
Hey DJ (#11) do you mean experts like this one?
December 16, 1998
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
Yet the DJ has more to say about cutting and running and the party of the Seditious & Sleazy giving aid & comfort to the enemy…
Sort of like Mogadishu, Somalia eh?
February 18th, 2007 at 7:01 PMUsing
Oh give me a fucking break, DJ. You mean all of those “lies” that every single intelligence community on the planet believed in? You mean the “lies” that the Clinton Administration were busy trotting out every time they needed some distraction from Old Kaiser Willy raping minors in the Oval Office?
Funny how they only became “lies” the moment a conservative decided to do something more than bombing an aspirin factory about it, isn’t it? Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break.
Anybody on the al-Qaeda side of Congress (that would be the Democrats, in case you haven’t been taking notes) ever bothered to ask the troops if they need “saving” from the Party of Cocklessness?
If they’re not interested in “rescue”, I suggest that the dickless pissants of the Democrat pro-terrorist party find another talking point than “we’re trying to save the troops.” The only party those socialist shitweasels are interested in saving are their allies in al-Qaeda, and no amount of pious drivel is going to convince me otherwise.
Pull the fucking other one.
If Upchuck, Murthafucker and the rest of the REMF pissants that ought to have been shot years ago REALLY had any balls, they’d put up an up or down vote about the war in general instead of slinking around in the shadows, but they don’t.
They’re a bunch of fuckheads giving jelly fish a bad name.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:01 PMUsing
No, you BACKSTAB your own country, children, and alll them teetering countries that are on the US dole.
If we lose this war, you won’t have to worry about funding any arts or saving beach mouse.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:16 PMUsing
Well let’s face it, the party of the Seditious & Sleazy has a 140+ year track record of backstabbing and cutting & running…
February 18th, 2007 at 7:28 PMUsing
Says DJ the Imperial Tech Wizard:
…Which sounds pretty much like Congressman Murtha’s “slow bleed” strategy to choke off support for the war and ensure the failure of the Iraq mission, doesn’t it?
Actually, that sounds more like Murtha or Democrat Congressman Silvestro Reyes, who is now the head of the House Intelligence Committee. After the Democrats regained control of Congress, Reyes was quoted by a Roll Call reporter as claiming that Al Qaeda was a Shiite organization (they are, of course, Sunnis). Whatever Bush knew when he invaded…Murtha, Reyes and the rest of the Democrat anti-war crowd are still clueless.
Not to mention malevolent. It has become painfully obvious that the Democrats voted for a war they never really supported solely out of a cynical political calculation, have spent the last three years actively undermining our efforts to fight that war to serve their partisan political goals, and are now seeking to ensure that we fail in Iraq while avoiding any blame for that failure.
The only enemy the Donks want to fight is George W. Bush, and they don’t care how much damage is done to the country, or how many Americans have to die, as long achieve their goal of bringing Bush down.
I’d say that sounds like the behaviour of “traitors” to me…
February 18th, 2007 at 7:32 PMUsing
Were you expecting me to defend insanity even if it came from Bill Clinton?
It was just as wrong in 1998 as it was in 2002. Wrong is wrong, no matter who is pushing it.
Not every single intelligence agency, Misha. Those that did appear to agree were reading the sifted “intel” that we were releasing.
Did you fail to notice that the countries that backed our 1991 military action did not want to get involved in the sequel? Oh sure, there were a hundred here and a thousand there from about thirty countries, but the majority of them stayed home. Even those who went with us into Afghanistan didn’t see fit to follow us into Iraq.
I seem to recall that even Dick Cheney had an excuse for not overthowing Saddam in 1992. I believe he even used the word “quagmire” back then.
The bombing of an aspirin factory only goes to show how faulty our intelligence was — even back then.
I have talked to troops that hold two different opinions. I have a friend that has been on one tour in Afghanistan and two in Iraq, and is impatiently waiting to be called up for his third. Five years ago, he was a quiet reserve who only wanted to put his time in and get it over with. Now he can’t wait to “kill something”. His real reason for returning? He has friends serving over there right now and he is concerned for their safety. He doesn’t even think about the mission itself right or wrong. He could care less.
But even though he is all amped up for going back, he would rather the whole thing came to an end and everyone came home. I am sure he is not in the minority.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:33 PMUsing
DJ
Of course he isn’t. That statement applies to every soldier in every war we have ever fought. Ask him if he would rather he come home victorious or in defeat?
Libs are constantly saying that they want to protect the troops and stop them from dying in vain. If the Libs succeed in snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, then they will have died in vain.
Face it Allyn, we can not lose in Iraq. We can only lose right here in the States and anyone who says that we need to pull out before we have achieved victory is doing the enemies job for them. That IS treason.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:45 PMUsing
After much hand wringer and screaming of bush lied babies died.. DJ (drum roll please) rolls out the …”Baby Killer brainwashed under educated military” argument..
You’re getting way to predictable DJ….
February 18th, 2007 at 7:50 PMUsing
Personally, he could care less. He just wants it to be over. The only thing he is concerned about is that he is not going to abandon his buddies.
We have had this talk several times over the past few years. He is not a political guy and doesn’t pretend to be. He is told where to go and what to do, and that is all he thinks about it. He doesn’t question the right or wrong — good policy or bad — for him, it isn’t his “department”.
You are putting words into my mouth. I only said that he isn’t the same person he was five years ago.
Five years ago, he was only concerned about himself. Now he worries about his friends who are currently over there and wants to be there with them and for them. He personally doesn’t give a shit about the policies concerning Iraq or anything else in the region. But as long as there are American forces over there, he feels that is where he belongs.
For him, it has nothing to do with the “mission”, and that is the point I am trying to make. He says for the most part, that is pretty much the way of thinking over there.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:13 PMUsing
Well DJ (#23), therein lies the problem, it wasn’t wrong during the Clinton administration and was wrong during the Bush administration…
Yet the libs are being inanely clueless for purposes that are hard to understand… Any ideas why?
Consider the words of Charles Duelfer before Congress in March of ‘04: Biological and Chemical Weapons
The libs and outfits like the New York Times tried to foist off the idea that mobile bio-war production facilities were actually to generate hydrogen gas or some such nonsense…
In Aug. of ‘05 even the WaPo reported the following: Monday’s early morning raid found 11 precursor agents, “some of them quite dangerous by themselves,” a military spokesman, Lt. Col. Steven A. Boylan, said in Baghdad.…
Do you think Lt. Col. Steven A. Boylan was lying?
Remember this? “Since 2003, Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent,” said an overview of the report unveiled by Senator Rick Santorum and Peter Hoekstra, head of the intelligence committee of the House of Representatives.…
Were Santorum and Hoekstra lying also?
Regardless of how many or how few WMDs were actually found, even one went against all these UN Resolutions…
February 18th, 2007 at 8:22 PMUsing
Orson Scott Card, on what giving up on Iraq would mean:
I wonder if Orson ever met DJ?
Speaking of which: Aren’t the same people (like DJ) who claim Bush “sifted” the prewar intel to support the war, now doing precisely that in order to retroactively justify their opposition to it? Of course they are…using the benefit of not only hindsight, but also information discovered by our troops only AFTER we invaded that was not available before we went in, to cherry-pick the pre-war intelligence they want to support their false accusations that “Bush Lied!”
Sorry, but that’s self-serving hypocrisy at best.
Card continues:
All emphases in the above are mine.
Read the whole thing.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:30 PMUsing
If your Govt doesn’t want your military to win, would you do us a favour and lend them to us (your military, not your government!)?
February 18th, 2007 at 8:36 PMNot that there is anything wrong with our military, we just need the hardware and the extra numbers….
Using
Funny. That’s not how my former countrymen see it, and they were actually there in both instances. They still are, and they’re not even thinking about pulling out from either theater.
I’m sure quite a few Brits and Aussies, just to mention two nationalities, would love to set you straight on that obvious load of bullshit as well.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:39 PMUsing
Rachel Corrie’s Flatmate
Package deal Rachel, you can borrow some of our military but you have to keep all of the Gubmint, feed em to some dingos or something.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:54 PMUsing
DJ sez:
Maybe all of those oil vouchers that Saddam paid off France, Russia, Germany, and the UN with might have had something to do with that….eh?
February 18th, 2007 at 8:59 PMUsing
Vote
Slavery
Secession
Segregation
& Surrender
Vote
February 18th, 2007 at 9:31 PMDemocrat!
Using
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Thanks,
February 18th, 2007 at 9:37 PMMark
Using
DJ wrote: It was just as wrong in 1998 as it was in 2002. Wrong is wrong, no matter who is pushing it.
This is the absolute pinnacle of idiocy. DJ, tell me, are you twelve?
There is absolutely no basis on which the rescue of millions of Iraqis, the protection of Israel, the effort to put real teeth behind UN ultimatums, and the defense of this country can be considered “wrong”. The only people who think this was wrong are either those sympathetic to the Islamists or those too stupid to realize they are sympathizing with the Islamists. I only wish that when the Dems lose this war for us, that they will be the first who will have their heads removed with a rusty knife. Maybe the Islamic knives will be too dull to cut anything by the time they get to the rest of us.
Regardless of whether one person thinks it was wrong or right to fight the Islamists on their soil rather than ours, the goal now must be victory. Anything else is worse than wrong, it is evil. People who think we should pull out of Iraq before the job is done do not deserve to be a called citizen of this country much less be accorded deference in this debate. We saw how the Liberals managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in VietNam and we are still paying for their treason to this day. Conservatives were complacent then but they cannot be now.
DJ and his ilk are, to put it kindly, sick human beings. Sick, as in mentally incapable of understanding the necessity of fighting the Islamists now while we still have a chance and clearly psychotic enough to repeat all the Liberal slander and lies that have been fscked many times before now. Furthermore, the notion that we should tell our troops that all their blood, sweat, and tears have been for nothing is simply the most ludicrous thing anyone can propose.
I have a feeling that if the Dems pulled the funding today, that our military would stay and fight with what equipment and arms they still have with them. They are that brave, that principled, and that trustworthy, three traits that Liberals will never have.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:06 PMUsing
Beeblebrox
It’s not just ludicrous, it’s disgusting and perverted.
Now that is a thing of beauty Beetlebrox, pure beauty.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:25 PMUsing
The best quote from DJ was regarding the troops ambitions, feelings and desires:
I presume he means “couldn’t care less” rather than what he wrote. The rest of it is silly enough to make people laugh without further comment.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:34 PMUsing
Allyn
Not to worry there, the Dems have that abandoning bit covered!
February 18th, 2007 at 10:45 PMUsing
After much pondering and fuming, I decided I deserve some of my money back from taxes, cuz I just AIN’T getting what I’m supposedly paying for.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:19 AMUsing
How many are there?
You all like to talk about the number of nations who are involved in this, but when it comes to the actual number of troops involved, it really isn’t all that much. Some countries have contributed about the same number of troops that you would expect to see policing a sporting event, yet they are given full billing on the marquee of The Coalition of the Willing™
Uh, that would have been the engineers of the Defense Intelligence Agency that said that said that it was likely those “labs” were being used to produce hydrogen. The CIA and Defense Department rushed out their “white paper” before the engineers had a chance to complete their analysis. In other words, the CIA and DoD simply jumped to conclusions to make it appear that they had the smoking gun. In other words, it was the policy makers and not the engineers who determined what those trailers contained. Even the Senior administration officials concede that there was never any traces of biological agents or undisputed evidence that the trailers were used to make such weapons.
But hey, if Rummy and Bush says that is what they were for, how can we not believe them? (and you think I am gullible.)
You all like to pick each little detail apart and fail to see the bigger picture. This isn’t a case of one little lie here and there, it is a whole pattern of deception and misdirection that is finally dawning on the American people.
Step back and see the forest through the trees.
Saddam sealed his fate the moment he started talking about trading oil in Euros instead of dollars. If he had been allowed to do that, our economy would have taken a nose dive that we would still be trying to dig out from.
But no, much of the “evidence” we used in determining that Saddam had a current WMD program came from a drunk agent named “Curveball”. Even the Germans knew this person was wholly unreliable.
I probably have kids older than you.
Wake up.
We are creating more Iraqis that hate us than think we are “saving them”. A rather disturbing story out today talks about how we can take an Iraqi and turn him against us.
Gee, do you think he felt that way before we tasered his tongue and treated him like an animal?
The only Iraqis left in Iraq are those who couldn’t afford to get out. Doctors, lawyers, and other professionals who should be in Iraq to rebuild have left the country in droves. Basically, the infrastructure has left the country, leaving the desperate and the hooligans to fend for themselves.
Somehow all of this was supposed to make it safer for Israel?
Because of all of our tampering in the Middle East, we have made Iran stronger than ever. Hell, even the “elected government” of Iraq is now a puppet of Iran.
We try to point the finger of blame to Iran for supplying sophisticated bombs to insurgents in Iraq, yet ignore the fact that the Saudis are supplying the Sunnis with the same kinds of weapons. (oh wait, the Saudis are our “friends”, even if the Sunnis are killing us…)
I was only telling you what he has been telling me.
I tried to talk him into writing something himself here tonight, but he says he doesn’t wish to involve himself in the “mutual mental masturbation” of these types of sites.
He may have a point…
February 19th, 2007 at 12:50 AMUsing
Moonbat detector alert.
I have read this on many, many sites for the mentaly ill. Are you aware the amount of Euros in circulation is ALLREADY higher than US bills? This is one of those “am I having a debate or talking to a loon” red line statements.
Liar or a fool which are you?
Cant really be bothered, you allready went over the loon line into fucktard territory with your Saddam+Euros bit of shite.
By the way Australia has allocated a handfull more troops to training teams in Iraq today. Appologies it isnt the entire ADF but were still a bit tangled up in Afghanistan, east Timor, the Solomon Islands, and New guinea. Most of our navy is there in the gulf though, or home being refitted from the last deployment.
You are hereby invited to suck Australias nuts.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:59 AMUsing
Yes, but it isn’t the number of Euros, it’s the value against the dollar. The value of the dollar would take a huge hit since much of its value is based on the trading of oil.
Apparently it’s the latter since you appear to want to yank the rug out of the “debate”.
Facts are facts — the dollar hasn’t been on the gold standard for years — its been backed by trading in oil. Take that away, and the dollar becomes worthless.
But it isn’t so much about the value of the dollar as it is about the mounting debt this country has rung up under the Bush Administration.
But here are a few of those “sites for the mentaly ill” that you probably haven’t read:
Energy Bulletin
Forbes
Bloomberg
I skipped more than a few only because they were not major publications, but they all talk about the plan to devalue the dollar by converting the oil trade to Euros.
The thing is, the plan of Iran, Iraq, Venezuela and other oil producing nations doesn’t actually have to work — it just shows that there is a concerted effort to attack the US dollar and disrupt the US economy. To some, this is considered to be an act of war.
When did you stop beating your wife? See, I can play that game too.
I didn’t write the article, nor did I interview for it. I only told you about it, after reading about it.
Bully for you. Of course it took being shamed by Obama before this handful was allocated.
Sorry, but while I don’t really have a problem with homosexuality in others, I am personally not built that way. I am sure you will find a nice guy more suitable to your liking someday. Just keep looking. :lol_wp:
February 19th, 2007 at 2:50 AMUsing
Why do I hate Arlen Specter so much?
February 19th, 2007 at 4:36 AMUsing
“Yes, but it isn’t the number of Euros, it’s the value against the dollar. The value of the dollar would take a huge hit since much of its value is based on the trading of oil.”
Assuming the people involved were willing to see the trillions of overseas currency invested in the American stockmarket vanish you might have a point.
The money is only good if it has value. Is there some reason the countries you mention havent allready converted over to the Euro?
No countries currency is gold standard, strawman arguement.
Ive read about the bat child in national enquirer, so what?
“Bully for you. Of course it took being shamed by Obama before this handful was allocated.”
Crap. Pure unadulterated crap. So crap other crap looks at it and thinks its crap. Its the crap that crap would do if crap could crap.
Heres some reading I suspect might be more up your alley.
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles.html
(moonbat city)
February 19th, 2007 at 5:00 AMUsing
*KLINK*
February 19th, 2007 at 5:44 AMUsing
Look, I’m gonna need so me high minded help here to understand how a war for existance is won by quitting.
.’Reckon Isreal would like to be “enlightened” too.
We didn’t start it. If we’re not resolute enough to walk on by our bloody nose and FRINISH IT, all this discussion will only serve to prove to the enemy’s contention that WE ARE ALL CHICKENSHITS.
February 19th, 2007 at 5:53 AMThat’s what they say, libtards furnish high grade propaganda ammo daily that THAT IS TRUE.
Well, Dear Friend, We’re Chicken Hawks. Never forget that, and watch where you cluck.
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Hey DJ (#40), you have something credible to back that statement up, right?
After all we do know how often Duelfer’s statements were misquoted by the news media…
Again, you do have a credible source for this statement, right?
FYI the New York Times isn’t and has never been credible in our life time…
I would hate to depend on those alledged engineers for anything let alone their supposed ability to determine the difference between hydrogen generators and mobile bio-war facilities…
The first thing one needs to ask one’s self is, “where is the brass?”
No brass fittings anywhere on the facilities…
Second question one needs to ask, “why an electric oven on a hydrogen generator facility?”
Why these two simple questions DJ?
Hydrogen gas is quite flammable as you should know and yet those German built mobile facilites didn’t have any brass fittings and even Germans are smart enough to know not to put heavy duty electric ovens near hydrogen gas generators…
You mean little details like how Iraq did ignore (and some of Euro-Weasel land apparently) all those UN Resolutions?
RE: Iraqi and turn him against us…
Actually there’s two things that are disturbing about this DJ, first that SOB was released and second, that someone who should know better is still taking the New York Times as a factual source…
February 19th, 2007 at 6:42 AMUsing
[…] a handy new list of traitors. Posted by Ian S. […]
February 19th, 2007 at 7:52 AMUsing
So, lemme’ see if I got this straight….
You read this part, right?
And, you’re still stuck on stupid?
*spit*
February 19th, 2007 at 8:29 AMUsing
Hey Misha, do you put DJ up to this kind of nonsense just to reinforce how nutty the Bush-haters are?
DJ, for the record, could you actually LIST the “lies and deceptions” of which you speak? I have yet to hear even ONE documented lie much less the plural (and your comment above indicates there are at least 4 - more than one “lie” and more than one “deception”.)
Ground rules:
These do not qualify as lies or deceptions:
-Things that were determined to be different only through benefit of hindsight than was stated going in.
-Claims that were made based on Western intelligence agency findings.
-Claims based on the previous administration’s findings.
Things that would qualify:
-Evidence of falsification of records.
-Claims by this administration that they KNEW were false when they made the claim.
That’s it. That’s what you need to produce in order to back up, what can only be considered a slander otherwise.
——–
Meanwhile, I think we could all come up with a list of things that the anti-Bush crowd has lied about continually:
-There were no WMDs. (the military has found some)
-There was no connection between Saddam and AQ (there was).
-9/11 was planned and executed by the WH (do we even need to go into why this is the biggest whopper of them all?)
-Bush lied when he made his statement in the SOTU address about Saddam’s connection to Niger. (We now know that he had one).
-Bush went into Iraq at the behest of his “oil buddies”. (This is not only unproven but also a logical fallacy. His “oil buddies” are in Texas and leaving Saddam to control his own oil fields is to the benefit of Texas oil companies because it raises global oil commodity prices. Any move we have made in Iraq that frees up its oil reserves actually HURTS American oil companies because increased supply depresses the price of a barrel of oil).
-Saddam had no ties to Islamic terrorists. (we knew this to be false then and even more so now.)
And the list of lies and deceptions from the Left continues to this day. So I have absolutely no patience for your canard DJ. Nearly everything you have mentioned as a criticism of our war policy in this thread has been either deceptive, false, idiotic, or just your opinion. However, stating as a FACT, something that is your opinion, is also a form of deception so physician, heal thyself.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:09 AMUsing
Come on, DJ, put those goal posts back down before you hurt yourself.
You said:
Of course, as I pointed out, they did. So now it’s all about them “not sending enough?”
Well, I’m sorry if you think that the Danes, Brits and Aussies (to name only three) “aren’t doing enough” because they haven’t mobilized their entire nations and sent every able-bodied man and woman to Iraq and that they therefore “don’t really count”, but some of us have more respect for our allies than that.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:34 AMUsing
The big problem is we’re dealing with politicians. Who, as a group, are more concerned with looking correct than actually being correct.
I believe that the Democrats don’t want to lose the war, they just don’t want it to be won while Bush is President. They strongly believe that a Dem is going to win in 2008 so they will do anything to delay success in Iraq until a Democrat takes office. If a Dem wins in ‘08 then they can just brush all their bad behavior under the carpet.
On the other hand if we succeed in Iraq while Bush is in charge they will think they appear to be losers. And they’re desperate to prevent that from happening. So desperate that they will do things that put our troops in more danger to keep Bush from getting the win.
I hope it backfires on them in an spectacularly ugly manner.
Remember who NOT to vote for in 2008
February 19th, 2007 at 9:48 AMUsing
DJ:
Even if this is in the category of goalpost moving, at least it is a debate point rather than a deceptive Lib talking point.
There were dozens of nations involved in the initial mission and many of them contributed mightily. Others, sent just token numbers. However any nation that contributed ANYTHING was making a statement that was important to the success of the mission.
They, along with the US drew a line in the sand and said “no farther”.
Should we have put more pressure on nations to send more? Hard to say. It complicates things when the military has to add other nation’s troops into the mix. In fact, it could be said that the effort to get other nations (besides, say Britain and Australia) to send personnel into the zone is generally a mistake.
Which brings me to my list of mistakes that Bush made with regard to this war:
-Listening to the Left for advice on how to prosecute the war (i.e. being too PC).
-Not going in sooner
-Waiting for the UN to pass a resolution approving military force.
-Not using enough force
-Not using tactical nukes where necessary
-Not taking on Iran and Syria at the same time.
-Not throwing traitors in the MSM and on the left in jail.
-Not denouncing the “aid and comfort” crowd more frequently
-Did I mention listening to the Left?
All the mistakes made (and they were largely mistakes when looked at in hindsight) were generally because Bush listened to the Left. If he had listened to the people who known how to win a war (i.e the Right and the Military), we would have finished this up by now.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:52 AMUsing
See what happens when Dirty Harry forgets to give Chuckie his hot beef injection?
February 19th, 2007 at 11:12 AMUsing
Fixed that for you.
Where’s the Big Red Switch that controls Congress? It’s gotten wedged again. :tongue2_tb:
February 19th, 2007 at 11:15 AMUsing
Misha, I am very optimistic about all of this. The un-hinged leftards are finally showing up on the scopes of a huge percentage of the populace who haven’t voted since reconstruction. Gore WILL run. Gore WILL receive his party’s nomination and Gore WILL be beaten AGAIN and the Republicans will prevail. The Tetophiles™ will be once again banished to Coventry. Since I am ALWAYS right about everything on this globe and everybody else is in the catchup mode ALL the time, feel free to mark this in stone.
Oh, where is the ‘I hope!’ key?
February 19th, 2007 at 12:51 PMUsing
James, “I hope” you are right. Al getting the nomination though? Interesting.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:17 PMUsing
These traitors are disgusting! I fail to see how they think they are doing any good.
-J. Kaiser
February 19th, 2007 at 1:34 PMhttp://totaltransformation.wordpress.com
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It’s in between the ‘I wish’ and ‘that’s not fair’ keys.
I will get back to the rest of you later — when I get home. (I don’t have the connection reliablilty)
February 19th, 2007 at 1:56 PMUsing Unknown browser
*walks in, sees the “Show me the lies and deceptions” gauntlet on the floor, waiting for DJ to pick it up*
“Well, this looks promising.”
*sits down with a bowl of popcorn and a glass of ice water to, waiting to be dazzled*
February 19th, 2007 at 2:54 PMUsing
Perhaps you’ve noticed I am not all that close to my own computer at the moment?
I am not going to be back until Friday evening. Until then, my internet access is VERY limited.
February 19th, 2007 at 3:00 PMUsing Unknown browser
Blackiswhite, if DJ is capable of picking the gauntlet up then he has a future bigger than what he is doing now. The House Dems have been looking for a smoking gun for 4 years without success. If they had some specific, PROVABLE examples of lies made by the President then the impeachment proceedings would have already started.
The fact that they haven’t is because the Dems know that there is no “there” there. The second they start making claims about no WMDs or no connection between Saddam and AQ in a hearing, they know they’ll be found out to be the liars rather than Bush.
But still, I too have a bowl of popcorn on standby just in case DJ can deliver. If he does, then expect him to be called as a witness before some House committee tomorrow because they’re desperate for any help they can get.
February 19th, 2007 at 3:29 PMUsing
We also know (and depend) on your digital capabilities!
February 19th, 2007 at 3:30 PMUsing
DJ
‘Fergot to address that last post,,ok, I’ll sit down and pay attention.Sorry.
,,heh,,guess where I am!
February 19th, 2007 at 3:46 PMUsing
Alrite, I’ll tell ya.
February 19th, 2007 at 3:54 PMI’m down in the sweetest part of Dixie, and my flag is puty much verbot,
If I ever saw my Starry Crossbucks here I’d grab my chest and try to buy you a drink before my carb’ vapor-locks.
Using
James Hooker, I’ve been saying for months that the inventer of the intertubes is gonna get the nod from the Donks. He’s laying in the weeds waiting and will emerge with an Oscar, maybe a Nobel and other accolades for his work to fight “Global Worming”. the lefty loons love him and think he was robbed in ‘00.
I think (hope) Al Franken will have some trouble getting the nod up here. People got burned by Ventura and may not be willing to vote for a “celebrity” but then again, this is Minnesota. The mooselimb guy was elected in the Mpls urban district. Moonbats, welfare voters and crack hos put his ass in office! Coleman needs to go but finding someone decent to run against him in the primaries could be tough.
February 19th, 2007 at 5:27 PMUsing
Now, now Maxxdog. Al never claimed he “invented” the Internet. He actually claimed to have made possible its “creation”.
Inventions are for guys working out of their garage.
“Creations” are for those of a slightly more elite status.
If there was anyone with delusions of grandeur, it is Al Gore.
February 19th, 2007 at 5:51 PMUsing
Tired-need sleep…couldn’t read all the comments so forgive me if I repeat another poster…Dems BRAGGING about what they did in ‘74-’75??? So that means they’re HAPPY about being the cause-the direct cause-of 2-3 MILLION people being murdered by the NV govt and ol’ Pol Pot?
Yeah, I want THAT on MY resume!!!
February 19th, 2007 at 7:52 PMUsing
*awakes with a start* “Huh?” *sees gauntlet still on floor where it dropped the day before*
February 20th, 2007 at 10:39 AMUsing
Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur says: *awakes with a start* “Huh?” *sees gauntlet still on floor where it dropped the day before*
I was just going to say the same thing. Two things I would really like to hear an honest Lib tell us, backed up with evidence, regarding the Iraq war:
A list of Bush’s “lies and deceptions”
A list of Bush’s “mistakes”
If they can’t then they need to just shut up and let the adults run the country.
Is that too much to ask?
February 20th, 2007 at 11:26 AMUsing
I guess I wasn’t ready to watch such an expenditure of Rottie Street credibility. I was hoping that such statements billed as fact would have facts to back it up. How disappointing.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:17 PMUsing
Should I have sent you a memo telling you that I would address this when I got back home? I am like, a few miles from home right now, and I don’t have a lotta time to spell things out for you. The past couple of days have been very interesting. I haven’t had the ability to use the Internet all that much, and those times that I’ve been able to connect have been pretty iffy at best.
I will be home Friday, so just be patient.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:21 AMUsing
Hey, no problem DJ. Like I said previously, if you have specific, verifiable examples of the lies and deceptions of which you spoke, then I think we are all ears. Most all of us are tired of the same slander and baseless accusations being thrown around by the left regarding this war (no WMDs” being the first on the list of said slanders) so an example of a real, true to life, FACT would be refreshing. Not to say one such fact does not exist, but only that it hasn’t been produced, as of yet.
I truly believe that if you can provide substantiated proof of malfeasance on the part of the Bush administration that you would be the toast of Democrat controlled Washington DC. They’ve been looking for something to hang their hats on for 4 years. The anti war crowd has been looking for a smoking gun, ANYTHING, that would be useful in impeaching Bush. They have even more reason to get you up there to a committee hearing now since if they could impeach and remove BOTH Bush and Cheney, then Pelosi would be president.
That’s seems like a pretty good motive for Pelosi to have her staff working round the clock on digging up at least ONE lie regarding the war. They haven’t found it yet but if our own DJ knows of one then who knows, maybe she would make him the White House IT guy!
February 21st, 2007 at 11:48 AMUsing
*rubs beard*
February 25th, 2007 at 7:18 PM“Well, I guess I waited long enough.”
*shuts off light and leaves the room*
Using
Hey. who turned out the lights? It’s kinda dark in here.
February 25th, 2007 at 7:20 PMUsing