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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Gun Pr0n
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…or “The Continued Saga of Lyudmila and How She Became The Dream Rifle™.”

First, thanks are in order: Thanks to LC Moriarty, my brother in the Fellowship of the Ring (Front Sight)™, who graciously and generously threw a whole stack of mags at me. He must have a brother who works for Heckler & Koch, because now I ought to be able to hold off a Soviet company without reloading.

Second, thanks to all of you for the generous assistance in my next purchase, and an even bigger thanks to Her Imperial Highness the Empress who, having heard my endless moaning and groaning for some glass to put on Her 7.62ishness and being the wonderful woman that she is, gently reminded me that we DO have an anniversary coming up, so why not go ahead and celebrate a bit early?

I’m telling you, His Majesty is spoiled more than any man has a right to be.

So, armed with a green light, a thumping heart and a ridiculously good offer, we ended up with Lyudmila looking like this:


Got wood?

Dianne Feinstein’s therapist might want to clear her calendar for the next three weeks or so.

That’s a German Hensoldt FERO Z24 sniper scope on the original STANAG mount, complete with reticle illuminator. For all that I know, it might be my old issue scope that has somehow found its way back to me. I swear I recognized one of the dings on the carry canister :wink_ee: Looked like it came right out of Bundeswehr storage when I got it, everything present down to the screwdriver, brush, cloth and gray filter. Heck, it even smells the same.

Yes, I know, there might be other and “better” scopes out there, but this one’s MINE. It’s like an old friend and it snapped on like it was coming home which, indeed, it was. And there ain’t much, if anything, that beats German optics.

She’s beginning to look downright evil, isn’t she? Mheh. Good.

Of course, now I’m stuck with having to find an outdoor range that knows how to measure out distances in meters - lol.

72 Responses to “Gun Pr0n”
  1. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    The best gear is that which you are most comfortable using which performs as well as you need it to.

    Most guns shoot better than I ever could with my wonky eyes, so I’m fortunate in that any rifle not made of of pot-metal in Mexico is going to suit me just fine :)

    That said, I am jealous Emp, you got yourself a pretty new toy there……

  2. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    It’s like an old friend and it snapped on like it was coming home

    Stupid question for those in the H&K Appreciation Society.

    I was recently dealing with a customers HK91, for which he had purchased one of the above mentioned Hensoldt scopes and mounts.

    Is that rubber block at one end of the mount supposed to press against the rear sight base? The reason I ask this is because on my customer’s rifle, he was unable to lock the base into the cuts on the receiver cover with the rubber block to the rear. It just flat wouldn’t go.

    And I haven’t seen anything similar on the mounts we have at the range for the MP-5s.

    Comments, concerns, questions?

    (BTW, thanks to whomever suggested using a sling as strap wrench to turn the bolt head back into position. That turned into a real hand saver…)

  3. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Well Misha…I did buy my wife a forty-five for her fiftieth birthday……….

  4. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Is that rubber block at one end of the mount supposed to press against the rear sight base? The reason I ask this is because on my customer’s rifle, he was unable to lock the base into the cuts on the receiver cover with the rubber block to the rear. It just flat wouldn’t go.

    In a word, yep.

    You open up the claw, slide it on as far forward as you can go (right behind the ejection port), then slide backwards ’till the rear of the mount hits the forward edge of the rear sight. Then you clamp it. You can clamp it forward as well, if you like. It doesn’t matter, since the clamps engage the grooves in the receiver, and they’re the same all the way.

    Also, be sure that the “Schußrichtung (bullet goes THIS way)” arrow underneath the mount is pointing forward.

    (BTW, thanks to whomever suggested using a sling as strap wrench to turn the bolt head back into position. That turned into a real hand saver…)

    That’s a nifty trick, yes, particularly with a new bolt (or with frozen fingers. Ask me about that one time). They can be quite tight at times.

  5. Unregistered Comment by LC Wes, Imperial Mohel

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    …Sigh…

    Yes, Sire, I am jealous. That’s one fine rifle and an even finer woman you have there…and you’d better cherish them both.

    Now excuse me while I find something to mop the drool off my keyboard…

  6. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    Beauty! (’nuff said!)

    I recently gave my SKS a facelift with a Tapco T-6 style stock and, with Your Majesty’s permission, I’d like to show it off…

    I’m loving that pistol grip.

  7. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    The best gear is that which you are most comfortable using which performs as well as you need it to.

    That’s it exactly. That being said, I readily admit that I’m a bit “handicapped” when it comes to the G3 design, at least as far as choosing gear is concerned. Handicapped in the sense that I’m very set in my preferences and probably unreasonably biased towards The Army Way.

    Next time, I’ll choose a rifle I didn’t have as an issue rifle so I can approach it with a completely open mind. :smile1_tb:

    That said, I am jealous Emp, you got yourself a pretty new toy there……

    Thanks! I’m quite pleased so far. All I need now is a set of wooden furniture, and I’ll be done. Well, for a while anyway.

  8. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    I recently gave my SKS a facelift with a Tapco T-6 style stock and, with Your Majesty’s permission, I’d like to show it off…

    I’m loving that pistol grip.

    Now THAT is a nice looking SKS!!! Damn! I didn’t know you could make ‘em look that beautiful.

    Now that you mention it, why don’t we make this thread the Official Imperial Gun Pr0n Thread™?

    After all, everybody loves to show off their favorite shooting iron(s), and all of the rest of us nuts love looking at ‘em, no? I know I do!

  9. Michael Comment by Michael

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    Those are beauts! I never thought an SKS could be that impressive looking.

  10. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    Thanks! I’m quite pleased so far. All I need now is a set of wooden furniture, and I’ll be done. Well, for a while anyway.

    A suggestion for you furniture needs, from TAPCO

  11. Serious Sean Comment by Serious Sean

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    Hehe, looking good there!

  12. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    Emperor,

    First, you’re welcome on the mags.

    (Quick question: Did they issue magazines with any sort of stripper clips/stripper clip guides? I’ve never so much as heard of an issue HK mag loader, so I’m curious.)

    I’m delighted you found the right scope and mount for her, especially since it’s the system with which you’re the most familiar. Whatever the GFWs might think when they see her, I’m sure they’ll positively wet themselves if they ever see what you can do with her.

    If the Cherokee cheekpiece stirs an interest, it can be found here.

    (Now all that’s left to do is go out and murder a few coyotes… and send Zumbo the photos.)

    Beautiful SKS, Gunsniper!

    Now, say hello to my little friends

  13. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    One thing. Be careful about putting foreign furniture on a PTR and be quite certain about your parts count. (It doesn’t matter when it was assembled — 922r is not part of the AW Ban. It is a regulation and has not been repealed.)

  14. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    Last: Just in case you ever get tired of this whole nitrocellulose thing…

  15. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    A cheesecake shot with the stock extended…
    I swapped out the 30 round Zytel mag for a 20 round Tapco mag since the 30 rounder didn’t fit flush in the mag well

    LC Moriarty:
    You’ve some gorgeous friends!

  16. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    Gunsniper, while I appreciate the utility and ergonomics of the Tapco, there is just something appealing to me about the ugly-arse original profile of the SKS. It’s Bulldog-cute I guess. How much luck did you have with the 30rd feeding? I’ve seen some of them feed less than the original 10rds before they bind or snarl up..

    But then again, I also sing rhapsody’s over the SVT40 and PPSh43, so my eye for attractiveness in a weapon might not be entirely 20/20 :)

    Of course this might explain my choice of New Jersey Polack to take for my wife. Good and solid, to last a lifetime of wear from an uneducated and untrained user!

  17. Unregistered Comment by Farmor

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    Wow - now you can come and fight the snow and ice here in DK - we’re locked in, and we risk our lives everytime, we leave the house. :furious_tb: :wallbash_tb: :surrender_tb:

  18. DдrтH бдкфи Comment by DдrтH бдкфи

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    my choice of New Jersey Polack to take for my wife.

    You married Martha Stewart? SCORE!!!

    Here’s my current favorite- A left-handed Stag Arms M4 Carbine with EOTech 512A65 Rev.F

    http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Tripleneck/?action=view&current=DSCF0570.jpg

  19. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    You married Martha Stewart? SCORE!!!

    No see, I went with my heart rather than trying to conquer a wellspring of unutterable evil. I’m weird like that :)

  20. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

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    Picked this up over at Hot Air and just seemed to fit with the theme.

    Video Fix: Bullet Time

    And check the two links under the video for more fun. The water bottle is great.

  21. DдrтH бдкфи Comment by DдrтH бдкфи

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    Oh, and for the record…

    Not to malign your little antiques fetish, Your Imperial Retrosexualness (One who romanticizes a bygone era), but I’ve been trying to encourage you to drag that rifle into the future.

    There’s a future for major-caliber battle rifles, but it ain’t in walnut stocks and illuminated Hensoldt 4X24s…it’s in 1913-compatible forearms and .308 reticle ACOGs.

    Not to be too harsh- I hope you’re enjoying shooting the crap out of one of history’s greatest battle implements. I enjoyed the time I spent demonstrating HK products as much as any summer of my life so much that I still own any number of HK weapons, and I’ve been carrying one of the first 100 USP pistols ever imported for 13 years- I think that is the best pistol ever devised, and I’ve carried all of them at some point.

  22. Gang of One Comment by Gang of One

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    Excellency, I have been mulling over many words I read on blogs and from an uncle and cousin who own weapons — I do believe my home [I am single and taking care of my elderly parents] needs protection. I live in the People’s Republic of New Jersey, and do not know much about what is necessary in terms of a) the appropriate weapon and b) legislation and paperwork to get permission [spit!] to have one. What can you or my fellow LCs advise me? Anyone with advice is invited to e-mail; just click on my nick.
    Thank you in advance, one and all.

  23. Gang of One Comment by Gang of One

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    Hmmmm. I thought that rolling the pointer over my nick would enable others to see my e-mail address, or find a way to contact me, but alas, not so. My apologies. I trust any and all who have some sound advise can post it here, but I wish not take up bandwidth.

  24. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    Hmmmm. I thought that rolling the pointer over my nick would enable others to see my e-mail address, or find a way to contact me, but alas, not so. My apologies. I trust any and all who have some sound advise can post it here, but I wish not take up bandwidth.

    Goo (Goo?) - that’s really not a waste of bandwidth.  That’s actually one of our favorite things to talk about - gun threads here usually get comment numbers in the hundreds.

    In other words, knock yerself out.  That’s what we’re here for, y’know.

  25. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    (Quick question: Did they issue magazines with any sort of stripper clips/stripper clip guides? I’ve never so much as heard of an issue HK mag loader, so I’m curious.)

    Nope. At least, if they did, I never heard of ‘em, and I’m reasonably sure that they’d at least have issued them to the military.

  26. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Gang of One:

    IMHO, this may be one of the most bandwidth hogging blogs in existance. We have long discussions on subjects like this all the time.

    Before we can legitimately offer advice, I would like a wee bit more information on your situation. Some examples:

    1) How familiar with firearms are you? Your parents? Ever serve in the Military? If so, what did you pack there?

    2) How dedicated to the exercize will you be? In other words, do you intend to get to competition level, just familiarize with the weapon of choice, or somewhere in between? Fire off a couple of boxes of practice ammo, load the weapon and put it in a drawer for the next ten years, or go out a couple of time a year (MINIMUM!) to practice (or just play a bit… :innocent2_tb: )?

    As to the laws of the People’s Democratic Republic of New Joisy, I don’t live there, and the only restriction that has come to my attention is that they for some reason don’t like hollow point ammo. Change that - they REALLY don’t like hollow points. I’m quite sure, however, that several of the denizens here could give some highlights of the local Sullivan acts.

    We LIKE questions like this.

    =====================

    Now, I’m running out for a couple of hours. My 12 year old is dragging me to the range so she can play with her new toy she got for her birthday two weeks ago.

    Daddy has a MkII version of this that she has been trying to steal er, borrow for the last couple of years, and everyone knows daddy is a soft touch…

  27. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Hmmmm. I thought that rolling the pointer over my nick would enable others to see my e-mail address, or find a way to contact me, but alas, not so.

    Privacy issue, LC Gang of One. Anybody can share such info if they choose to, but rule number one around here is that if you don’t specifically choose to, you need never worry that such information gets shared.

    Come to think of it, that’s pretty much the only rule we have. We don’t like rules.

    So if you wish, feel free to type out your email addy, but I wouldn’t recommend it. Not so much because of randomly passing trolls with an agenda, but more because of the ever present email-harvesting spambots.

    Now, as to your question about how to arm yourself in the People’s Socialist Republic of Noo Joisey, I can’t help since I don’t live there, but I’m sure we have somebody around here who can. So hop to it, Noo Joisey LCs, help a fellow LC out!

    Because you are, of course, absolutely right. Self-defense is not only a right, it’s your duty. The police, much as they’d love to, can’t be everywhere at once.

    (Oh, and as to bandwidth: What Spats said. “Waste” away. I’ll make sure to say so if it gets to be too much, and I haven’t said a peep about that issue through all the years, so I don’t expect that I will do so now, unless you choose to post the entire text of “Ulysses” :wink_ee: ).

  28. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    i’m two weeks into my three month waiting period for my new BB Gun here in Mexifornia. wanna be ready when La Revolucion begins!

  29. Gang of One Comment by Gang of One

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    Your Benevolence, Lord Spatula and Wil, I truly appreciate your remarks and invite to ask. As I type, I am preparing myself to take a New York State exam, the ATSW — I am in the final laps of earning my MS in Special Education … a chance to correct and reverse the socialist indoctrination of the wee bairns of my area. Be that as it may, when I return, I will answer those questions.
    In short, dad was Air Force, I never served. I have operated firearms: .22 longs in a rifle [plinking cans, etc.] 9mm, and .308 at the range with friends who do own; this was in Mexico City.
    I am considering a smooth-bore, and a semi, perhaps a 9mm or a .45 — the shotgun for all around perimeter defense, and the semi for my personal use.
    OK, I have to bolt …

  30. LC HOGHEAD Comment by LC HOGHEAD

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    My Emperor, just be careful. The ex-Mrs Hog once accused me of loving my AR-15 more than her. She was right. Shes gone. The AR stayed.

  31. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Gang of One, there is a stock answer for this question that most of us have. If it’s going to be used in your house something in the scattergun (ie. shotgun), class is never a bad way to go.

    Also, shotguns seem to be the least restricted of all firearms. (With the exceptions of barrel lengths… I understand that some wierd places like Michiganstan require that shotguns under 22(?) inches be registered, but beyond that…) And there is something to be said for the appearance of, say, a coach gun type shotgun. Side by side double with 20 inch barrels. Short, handy at house ranges and conditions and talk about your terrorizing appearances! But not much good in a long engagement.

    My own personal theory is it should be whatever you are comfortable with and can use in a hurry. Now, you are taking care of your grandparents. Will they be in a position to use you weapon to defend themselves if you are not home? WILL they use it? Will you be able to? Think about these things before you buy it. Consider the mental consequences and make sure that you have the ability, (mentally), to take the responsibility of shooting an attacker.

    My advice? Take whatever suggestions we make here, see what makes sense to you, then take a few days to go around and tour your local gun shops. Ask them what the local ordinances are conceerning gun ownership, ammo use, etc. Make notes. (Don’t do the note taking in front of them, it’s bad form.)

    Now, about those notes on local law? Find yoself an attorney who’s practice deals with firearms law and talk to her/him. Do a search for “New Jersey Second Amendment Society” or similar and call them and ask them to refer you to an attorney who can answers questions about local gun laws. Most such attorneys will be willing to talk to you about gun laws.

    While you are in the gun stores, ask them for advice, also. Again, take your notes. If they are not willing to spend at least a few minutes in actually talking to you about what you need, then go somewhere else!

    Most of us in the gun business are there because we like guns. We like talking to people about guns. We like talking to people in general. If you run into a store where all they want to do sell you something and not talk to you about it first, then you are NOT dealing with “gun people”.

    If someone tells you that something is “just perfect for you”, and you have never shot it or even held the thing in your hand to see if the ergonomics are proper, then they are a salesman, or a dedicated Glock/Smith & Wesson/Heckler & Koch/1911 fanatic, who thinks that what they have is the perfect firearm for everyone.

    And maybe it is right for you.

    But, if you haven’t had the chance to handle it/fondle it/shoot it, then DON’T BUY IT.

    Talk to your friends who own guns. Ask to go with them the next time they go shooting. Offer to buy a box of ammo to shoot in their gun(s).

    Find out about local shooting ranges, call them up and see what they have that you can rent to try at their range. When you do shoot their weapons, ask them for advice on hold and so forth.

    If you haven’t shot before, be up front about it. Learn the rules. Get your own safety gear. (hearing and eye protection) This helps to show that you are at least serious in you desires.

    See if you can get in when they are not too busy, and ask if the range safety officer can get help you get started with your first few rounds.

    Figure out what you can afford. Be honest with yourself about it, too. Shooting for self defense is something that can get expensive if you are not careful. Look at your downstream costs. If money is an object, don’t buy something that you are going to spend fifty bucks a box for ammo to feed it.

    Think of it like buying a car. If you are worried about the costs of a long commute, you aren’t going to buy something that gets 10mpg. Well, ammo is your fuel. Always keep that in mind. Also, keep in mind where you are going to shoot what you get. If all you have in your vicinity are indoor pistol ranges, a high powered rifle is going to be difficult to familiarize yourself with. Same goes for shotguns. Make sure you are going to be able to work with what you get.

    When you are handling a firearm, particularly a pistol, there is a simple test to find out if the ergonomics are right for you. First, make sure the piece is unloaded. (If you don’t know how to do this, ask the counter people. They would rather you ask than have you fumbling around.) Take a proper, comfortable grip. Now, in a safe manner, (meaning in a way that will not point the weapon at any other people or yourself), pick a point on a wall. Lower the weapon to oint at the floor, focus your eyes on the point on that wall, then close them. Now, without moving anything else, bring the weapon up and point it at that spot. Open your eyes. Are the sights lined up on your point? If they are, add that one to your list. If not, try something else.

    I know there is more, but this is turning into a treatise, and not just a response. I’ll cogitate on this for a bit, and, if there is nore that I think you should consider, I will throw it out there.

    And I am sure KNOW that others here will do the same.

  32. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    unless you choose to post the entire text of “Ulysses”

    Dammit! I was gonna do The Brothers Karamazov, that okay, Boss? I was plannin’ to keep the bandwidth down by doing it one sentence at a time, In Russian and English…

  33. juandos Comment by juandos

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    When you Rotties talk firearms, its always interesting and a good education…

    Thanks folks… Its much appreciated…

  34. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Gang of One:

    Allow me to add a simple “ditto” to Guido’s advice above. I tend toward a double barrel shotgun inside the house as well, although in my case, a good over and under. Why? Well, there will ALWAYS be some bottom-dwelling, pond-scum-eating, lower than whale shit fine upstanding lawyer willing to whore himself who will go above and beyond in his attempts to protect criminals from honest citizens. It’s a litle harder to convince a jury when the tool in question is something that most of them have hunted with or seen in Grampa’s house.

    As to the semi, just a thought: In Jersey, I would especially tend toward a .45 of some stripe, as opposed to a 9mm. Given the ban on hollow points (even to include their own State Police!), a 9mm might expand. A .45 won’t collapse.

    Above all - Get somthing you feel comfortable with. If it doesn’t fit YOU, it will eventually bite you in the ass.

  35. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    Gang of One:

    While I concur with the excellent advice you’ve gotten here on the Rott, if you go here and ask around a bit, all will be made clear.

    Welcome to the fraternity, brother.

  36. Tom The Impaler Comment by Tom The Impaler

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    But Emperor, You need a cheek piece now! I had an AR 180 B with a similarly high scope mount and I could never get my face comfortably against the stock. reduced stability costs much of what the scope adds. Maybe you need the sniper style (PSG???) stock.

  37. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Gang of One, I am by no means an expert, just an old vet that likes guns, feels safer having them around. I enjoy learning from others here, they ahve taught me a lot. What has been said above covers it, in my view. But the wife and I after great consideration, (not to mention some begging on my part), traveled to a big gun shop in Merced here in Kalifornia. A ten day waiting period and you DO have to pass a written test. Hollow points are not forbidden here, I have a few boxes in my safe behind me. But how fast could you get to a gun if you had to? Some states, like mine, have all sorts of damnfool requirement, so I have a loaded .45 in a push button lockbox three feet from here, stashed from view. But the wife and I, myself already owning the blunderbuss, my twelve gauge pump, decided on a Ruger P97DC. We talked with the proprietor for two HOURS, he wanted us to like what we bought, tried cases of pistols. It felt great in my hand, I knew we were made for each other. Not the best target pistol, simply a rugged, dependable, powerful gun. My wife had never fired a pistol before, I held my breath as she squeezed the trigger…….and squeezed it again and again. By this time I was grinning. So for her I eventually bought her a .45 of her own, same model, but with a slimmer grip. She liked it better than my heavier gun. But be warned…..gun shops are contagious, I saw some beautiful hardware there, a place called Gunrunners in Merced, California, some thirty miles from my home. I would sometimes leave wistful and dreaming…….the one piece that caught my eye and heart was a Marlin ‘94, lever action, octagional barreled, replica firing hot .44 mags. I drolled, I fixated on it, she saw me staring at it on the wall……looking at the wife….”Oh please, pretty please, time for some industrial strength begging and groveling. It was worth it, she caved……..grinning ear to ear, I held my precious acquisition, bought a box of ammo and took it downstairs. And you know what? She liked it as much as I did. This fires heavy two forty grain slugs at about two thousand FPS, at the slower end of rifle speeds. Not for long distance, but hey, how big is your living room? But for someone like me, it serves my purpose well. And you can fire off those rounds fast. But we do our target shooting with our forty fives. They have the knockdown power to deal with the meth heads we have here. I run 230 grain hollows here at home. But to end this, we love shooting, it relieves stress, inproves your concentration, takes your mind off things. Most important to me, like your gun, feel comfortable with it, know it well, and bottom line…use it regularly. With me that means no less that once a month, costs fifty bucks a trip. But worth it to me….you have good days and not so good days. This was a good day. Enjoy.

  38. DUTCH Comment by DUTCH

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    Your next one needs to be a Saiga-12. Reliable AK action on 12 Gauge buckshot and/or slugs from a 10 round mag.

  39. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    Ditto to the above comments, I got a ton of good advice here before I ran into the sodding Brady Bill (I’m one of those immigrants, actually doing a job most Americans don’t seem to want!)

    And with regards to the 9mm/.45cal debate, I would second shooting one before you put down wads of cash. I was in love with the idea of .40cal before I shot one. Snappish as can be and not good to my slightly arthritic hands at all.

  40. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Gang of One

    Very little that can be added to Guido’s excellent all around treatise (Damn near thought I was reading Melville for awhile :wink_ee: ). Speaking as a firearms instructor I can wholeheartedly concur. The weapon MUST be comfortable to you, you must be confident in your ability with it, and you MUST be mentally prepared to use it.

    .12 ga Hawgs Leg is always good for home defense but I have to ask, will your elderly folks possibly have to use it? If so, I recommend you stick with a handgun. A .12 ga could potentially shatter an elder persons shoulder. And they definitely won’t be practicing with it. I have to digress a little from a few of the other LC’s here and recommend a pump gun rather than an over under or side by side. Do the math, 2 rounds vs. 5 - 7 rds. And I still say that the sound of an 870 racking a round is enough to send most goblins crying to momma.

    If NJ has ammo restrictions then I do have to strongly recommend that you look at .40 or .45. Just make sure that whatever make/model you choose is a natural fit and you feel confident in it.

    Lastly, train, train, train. Not just practice, but train with a licensed instructor, preferably LE if possible. If you have bad habits and practice practice you will only be reinforcing those bad habits. An instructor can teach you the right way and correct mistakes or bad habits so that when you practice on your own you’re doing it right. Read up on lethal force, to include post incident stress and decompression. Learn the laws of your state, when can and can’t you legally employ lethal force. Be prepared both mentally and physically to employ it if necessary. And be prepared for the aftermath. Hopefully it will all be wasted effort and you will never have yo use any it. Most all gun owners hope they never have to use them. I know I do and I strap one on every day for work.

    Welcome home citizen. Good luck.

  41. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Misha BTW, Lyudmila is looking real sexy there boss. Continued congratulations. Just remember, you’re not a 20 year old grunt anymore, you’re no longer indestructible so don’t get to carried with the nostalgia there Ok? No O courses or charging Soviet Rifle Corps’.

  42. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Oh, I would love to post some gun pr0n of my own but I don’t know how to post a picture from my computer. Sire, if it’s not a waste of your bandwidth ( :cheese1_ee: ) please advise how to put some pics of a few of my more “exotic” bangie things (no, not my wife BC).

  43. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    The gun threads are my favorites….so much to learn and share. I never thought about decompression, crunchie….., you make a very good point. Today though, it blew my mind at the coffeehouse this morning, after having a smoke I walked back inside, and there was my wife and half a dozen other gals talking about……guns.

  44. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    caveman

    after having a smoke I walked back inside, and there was my wife and half a dozen other gals talking about……guns.

    Damn now thats the makings of a real pr0n movie!
    :undecided_tb:

  45. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    A .12 ga could potentially shatter an elder persons shoulder. And they definitely won’t be practicing with it. I have to digress a little from a few of the other LC’s here and recommend a pump gun rather than an over under or side by side.

    As an addition to Crunchie’s comment. Yes, pump guns are wonderful things. There is a 12ga 870 standing beside the bed as we speak. Oldie but a goodie, and I am willing to stake my life on it. I tossed the “coach gun” thing out there as a matter of “cool idea that I have kicked around before”, and, as LC Wil noted, if you are being held prisoner in an anti-gun area, there are few things as “jury friendly” and “goblin terrifying” as the double.

    However, and, given the presence of elderly people in your home, it must be noted that the 12ga is not the only way to go. You might want to investigate the 870 “Youth Model”. It is a 20ga with a shorter barrel and stock, and very comfortable to shoot. And there are good loads out there in the defensive format. (buckshot, slugs) It will do the job. Hell, for that matter, a .410 bore pump, while less powerful than either the 20 or 12 gauges, is still in the same class as a .357 Magnum for on target energy at house ranges, (using 000 buck), and is not likely to cause deployment/use problems for anyone with the strength to pick it up.

    And, in a pump gun, it still has that great “Clatter CLACK!” sound when you chamber a round.

    As a side note, I have been “informed” by several people that really should know better that it is possible to fire both .44 Magnum and .444 Marlin in a .410 shotgun, since the rounds are so close dimensionally. Both the .44 and .444 operate at pressures ranging from two to four times the level of the .410. This can lead to minor litle MAJOR FUCKING problems like the bolt of the shotgun being driven into and through the back of the receiver when it’s retaining lug shears off, or barrels splitting apart at the breach. This will be happening inches from your face.

    Personally, I can’t imagine many ways of killing or maiming yourself with a firearm that are more stupid than this one.
    So if anyone ever tells you that you can do this little trick, just walk away…

  46. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    Damn now thats the makings of a real pr0n movie!

    :clap_tb:

    I’ll help!!!!!!!!!!!! :smoke_tb:

  47. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Guido

    So if anyone ever tells you that you can do this little trick, just walk away…

    Well, you could do it once…

    Seriously though ditto your comments on the .410 as a suitable alternative for frailer shoulders. Put a low brass slug in it and you have a real goblin stopper on yer hands that any one can potentially employ. .00 or .000 buck are great as well, but in a .410 I personally would probably go with the slug. Thats me though, someone else with a lot of trigger time the buck shot would be a better bet.

  48. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Guido, what are the differences in power between the .44 mag and the .444? Not sure on this one. My rifle fires .44 mags. Never heard mentioned of a .444.

  49. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    OOPS

    someone else with a lot of trigger time the buck shot would be a better bet.

    shoulda read

    someone else with OUT a lot of trigger time the buck shot would be a better bet.

    PIMF

  50. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Misha BTW, Lyudmila is looking real sexy there boss. Continued congratulations. Just remember, you’re not a 20 year old grunt anymore, you’re no longer indestructible so don’t get to carried with the nostalgia there Ok? No O courses or charging Soviet Rifle Corps’.

    Damn hard to find any bloody Soviets around here anyways, brother.

    Not to mention, with her rigged like that, “charging” isn’t the preferred method anymore. “Commie-nity ‘Outreach’” is more like it.

    As to posting pics, if you don’t have a site to post to (flickr, that sort of thing) and link from, let me know and I can host ‘em here and post ‘em for ya.

  51. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Thank you Sire. Gun Pr0n inbound to ya.

  52. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    Guido, what are the differences in power between the .44 mag and the .444?

    Caveman, basically, the .444 Marlin is a longer cartridge designed for use in the Marlin 336. In it’s factory loadings it develops over 900fps more vlelocity than the .44 Mag pistol with a 240gr bullet.

    According to Hornady Third Edition, (handily kept beside my computer), when loaded for rifles, the .44mag will max at about 1800fps. The same loads in a pistol will max at around 1350. The .444 Marlin is running 2400fps.

    It’s not a super common caliber, but I regularly run across rifles in it. To my knowledge, Marlin is the only company to build rifles in this caliber, but I seem to recall that there have been others. I just can’t think of any offhand.

    The BFR pistol is also available in it, as is the Thompson Center Contender, and other single shot pistols like the Merritt, and one critter who’s name escapes me at the minute that used the Nordenfeldt rotating breechblock.

    Hope that helps, bud.

  53. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    And now, one of LC 0311 Crunchie’s toys. It seems that he’s intent on dragging us, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century:

  54. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    Seriously though ditto your comments on the .410 as a suitable alternative for frailer shoulders. Put a low brass slug in it and you have a real goblin stopper on yer hands that any one can potentially employ. .00 or .000 buck are great as well, but in a .410 I personally would probably go with the slug. Thats me though, someone else with a lot of trigger time the buck shot would be a better bet.

    Crunchie, isn’t the .410 slug basically a 9mm in a longer barrel? If so, wouldn’t one of the 9mm carbines like the Beretta Storm CX4 (pricey) or the Kel Tec SUB-2000 (I hear good things about this one and it’s very easy to clean being a folder) be a good bet.

    True they don’t look as quaint in court, but they give you the option of using high capacity pistol magazines rather than a limited supply of .410. And .410 slugs aren’t nearly as reasonably priced as decent 9mm either…..

    Of course I’m a paper gun-nut right now, so feel free to shoot me down :)

    Oh and love the P90 dude, although I curse the legislator that made those extended barrels mandatory. Talk about going against the nature of the design….

  55. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Brit

    Crunchie, isn’t the .410 slug basically a 9mm in a longer barrel? If so, wouldn’t one of the 9mm carbines like the Beretta Storm CX4 (pricey) or the Kel Tec SUB-2000 (I hear good things about this one and it’s very easy to clean being a folder) be a good bet.

    Not really, totally different. The 9mm carbines are good as far as handling and such, but when used in a home defence situation a scatter gun is usually the better bet.

    My Liege, thank you for posting the PS90 pic and enabling my “show off” addiction. :wink_ee: And from what I understand the design is actually about 15 years old and the sub gun version has been used by a lot of NATO countries as a PDW for support troops for awhile now.

    Oh and love the P90 dude, although I curse the legislator that made those extended barrels mandatory. Talk about going against the nature of the design….

    That would be FDR and his socialist minions. However there’s a way around it, only costs $200. I’m seriously considering SBR’ng her.

  56. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    (quivver)

    Yeah, just run yer mits all over that sweety’s,,er,, contours,,then..

    DOWN BOY! not here not now, but not “No”.

    Errgh. oohh.

    Lay her down,, trundle off to the cold shower..

  57. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    Put a low brass slug in it and you have a real goblin stopper on yer hands that any one can potentially employ. .00 or .000 buck are great as well, but in a .410 I personally would probably go with the slug.

    I’ve run a lot of ammo through .410, and, at house ranges, I think I would be more tempted to go with the 000Buck. Each of the three pellets in a buck load exit the muzzle at essentially the same velocity as the slug, and have very close to the same weight as the slug. Basically, you are getting three fer one. (Typical slug weights are 1/5 and 1/4 ounce. So, 88 or 110grs) (000buck weight is circa 95grs) At house ranges, (up to fifteen yards), typical pattern dispersion from a full choke barrel is on the order of six inches observed using 000Buck. In effect, you have a triple tap at house ranges, every time you squeeze the little curvy thingie…

    While the buck loads don’t have the long range carry and trajectory of the slug, this isn’t what you are worried about in a house. In most houses, fifteen yeards is about your maximum engagement range anyways. (If you have ranges of forty-fifty yards inside your house, you need to be looking for guards first!)

  58. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Guido
    Spot on about the .000 buck but I have a personal fetish..er preference for slugs in .410. Old sentimental reasons, long story. Now in .12 ga I use exclusively .000 buck.

    In most houses, fifteen yeards is about your maximum engagement range anyways. (If you have ranges of forty-fifty yards inside your house, you need to be looking for guards first!)

    Didn’t know you had been to my estate. :wink_ee:

    (quivver)

    Yeah, just run yer mits all over that sweety’s,,er,, contours,,then..

    DOWN BOY! not here not now, but not “No”.

    Errgh. oohh.

    Lay her down,, trundle off to the cold shower..

    Glad you liked her cheapshot! Also glad I could return the favor seeing how yer Chicago Typewriter and I had a similar encounter at the Rottfest!

  59. Unregistered Comment by elchonon

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    Crunchy bro,
    Have you any AR-15 or the likes ? I will be home in miami for 2 monthes to get 2 urgent back operations “arghh!!!!” I will be hitting the range at least once a week!!!

    My glock payment plan aint going great so I hit up a buddy of mine to loan me the 400 remaining dollars so lets pray that works out!

    I hope I get the honor of using some of your toys, elchonon1 at juno.com drop me a line…

  60. Unregistered Comment by elchonon

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    Maybe I should do some shameless begging for alm’s to pay for my gun.

  61. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    elconon

    Do I have any AR-15’s? :lol_wp: I’ll drop you a line buddy, we’ll work something out. I need some more range time anyway. :guns_tb: :clap_tb:

  62. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Hope that helps, bud.

    Thanks Guido, it does. I was told closing in on two thousand FPS with my present loads. So eighteen hundred sounds right. It does pack one hell of a wallop with that heavy slug, despite it’s lower speed. And I learned long ago most lever actions are not designed for some of the heavier artillery. Thabnks Bro.’

  63. Unregistered Comment by elchonon

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    Crunch,
    Thanx bro!! these 2 spinal surgery’s got me pissing my pants off! I need some entertainment to keep me busy and occuepied and no guys a strip club is out of the question ;)

  64. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    Maybe I should do some shameless begging for alm’s to pay for my gun.

    It has occurred to me a time or two, but being tarred and feathered just doesn’t appeal :)

  65. Unregistered Comment by elchonon

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    Well I am at gun number 0.. so I need at least one!! unless crunchie is donating me a piece!

  66. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    Well I had paid for a nice SKS, stocked up on everything for care and feeding but had to send the bugger back due to the BCIS being squirrelly.

    Alas since then, bills ate the money so now I know about the easy way to fix the situation, I got no gun budget!

    Time to start socking the cash away again, although I am tempted to go long and go for an AK style weapon this time, while I still can.

  67. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Do not despair, gentlemen; at one time I wondered how I could afford one, so I bought the shotgun, the cheapest. The forty-fives came later, in rapid succession…(amazing things about bonuses or tax returns) and finally, the most expensive, my rifle. I relate to your feelings though, I would feel…how do I put this…somehow incomplete with out my own gun. Sorta’ like a guy can feel without a truck. Now I have both.

  68. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Elchonon

    unless crunchie is donating me a piece!

    We’ll see my friend, we’ll see. It’s not like I don’t have 1 or 2 dozen to spare. Definitely a couple for the range though! I’ll be e-mailing ya soon.

  69. Unregistered Comment by elchonon

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    Caveman,
    All you gotta do is read he conservative shit I read and the islam crap and you feel like

    “damn i better buy a gun!!! they will outlaw it soon and kill my family!!!”

    I just finished mark steyn “america alone” and i’m thinking to myself “poor brits are goners”

  70. Unregistered Comment by elchonon

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    Crunch:

    We’ll see my friend, we’ll see. It’s not like I don’t have 1 or 2 dozen to spare. Definitely a couple for the range though! I’ll be e-mailing ya soon.

    Now my man we are talking!! I am pissed sick of geting attacked in miami.

  71. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    I too, share your feelings, elchonon. I have noted simply the threat of facing an armed adversary is enough to give pause for consideration among bad guys. Anybody tries some shit here, thinking my wife would be an easy mark…..not if she gets her hands on the .45. She does know how to use it. But yes, the idea of your loved ones being hurt and you unable to help a special torture all it’s own. We both wish to avoid that. After my dad had his stroke, my mother took to packing a little ten shot twenty-two pistol in her purse, telling me…”For me to be attacked and your dad forced to watch, unable to help would destroy his soul….” I never loved her more. O him. So I own guns. And always will as far as I’m concerned. Or I will be dead.

  72. Gang of One Comment by Gang of One

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    My dearest fellow citizens, LCs Will, Crunchie, Guido Cabrone, Moriarity, Spatula and Caveman, as well as his Most Exalted Fang-tastic Doggedness, I thank you from the depths of my plebe heart for all the guidance thus far. I am somewhat ashamed that I took one whole week to return and peruse the advice as well as the important questions that need to be answered before investing and committing to my and my mom and dad’s safety.
    I have discussed this matter with them … they understand the import of safety, and yes, they are scared of firearms, but they are not strangers to them. My mom, born and raised in Mexico, saw them all the time. In fact, my grandma kept a well-oiled M1911-ACP .45 in her bedroom. My uncle kept .22s and other small caliber weapons. As I mentioned, dad was AF but he was on the medical staff — Barksdale AFB, the SAC base in Shreveport, LA. They know I can handle these things wisely and responsibly; they know this since I was 14 when my first Scout merit badge was for riflery, and I had actually won a competition and trophy for same at age 11.
    I hope to be able to some investigating very soon, and perhaps make some decisions before the summer. Mom and dad would not be firing these ordnances, not likely anyway, but one never knows until one is in a situation, neh?
    On a somewhat aesthetic note, I always liked the looks of the 9mm Luger Parabellum, just for the beauty of its lines, as well as the tiny Walther PPK. But apparently, 9mm don’t stop anybody unless it’s a headshot or a heart driller. Am I correct?