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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Killing the Economy
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Having the smartest readers in the universe, we know that all of you already have a pretty good grasp of just why raising the minimum wage is Very Bad News™ for the economy, particularly when it’s shock therapy like the $2.15/hr raise (that’s awfully close to a 50% raise, right there) that the House just approved.

We’re sure that you’re also well aware that it isn’t going to help the po’ and oppressed masses one little bit, since the economy will simply adjust to accommodate the sudden increase in labor costs.

But did you know that it will actually hurt the very people that it claims to help?

We’re sure you do, but here’s a most splendid breakdown of just exactly why that is so.

So, to all of you people out there on minimum wage who, understandably, must be thrilled at the prospect of an impending wage increase (and we can’t say that we blame you), don’t get too excited just yet.

Not only will the extra funds disappear right out of your pocket again, you’ll most likely end up with less than you had before.

Especially if you happen to be one of the “lucky” ones that gets laid off to recuperate the financial loss to your employer.

Remember to thank your “benefactors”, the Democrats, in ‘08.

66 Responses to “Killing the Economy”
  1. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Without the benefit of the link, I would hazard a guess that some jobs just ain’t WORTH 7 bucks an hour…

    Just my 2 cents worth, of course.

  2. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    and, ok yeah …. FIRSTEST!

  3. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    And after reading Mrs. Dutoit’s analysis - Does anyone know what she does in her OTHER life (other than teach, that is)?

    That is as masterful an analysis of the errors of the minimum wage as I have ever read, including the works of Doctor Walter Williams. An economic primer to be proud of.

  4. Dick Comment by Dick

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    Yep, she owns her own business.

  5. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    And after reading Mrs. Dutoit’s analysis - Does anyone know what she does in her OTHER life (other than teach, that is)?

    Yes, I do, and I obviously neither can nor will provide any details, other than to vouch that she speaks from a position of authority on this subject.

  6. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    The dhimmicrats mantra for every election since 1992 has been “the economy sucks”. Now they have the chance to really torpedo this economy of record stock gains, housing starts, and realy earning power….all while George Bush is president…….

    gosh, I wonder what their campaign mantra will be in ‘08 when the economy really DOES suck.

    Great analysis Mrs. D, really good.

  7. Brian the sailor Comment by Brian the sailor

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    I can’t remember who I stole this from, (maybe Glenn Beck) but labor is a commodity. The minimum wage should be $0.00.
    And why is the federal gov’t involved anyway? The cost of living here in SoCal isn’t the same as Central TX, so why are the feds poking their nose in? It’s only going to stagnate the economy, which seems to be the first item on the Dem’s agenda.
    Then when the inevitable economic downturn comes, they’ll blame Bush, of course.

  8. Ten-Ten Comment by Ten-Ten

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    Why stop at $7.25 hr.? Why not $10, or $15, hell, make it $35 an hour. That way EVERYONE can afford to support a family, pay college tuition and invest in an IRA. The only problem is, prices are directly linked to wages. Payback is a Pelosi.

  9. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    5. Utilities (gas, electricity)   10%  $165

    $165 for utilities? My gas bill alone last month was $185. My power bill was $650 for two months. The water/sewer bill is around $80. Garbage is another $80. That just covers the bare essentials. Add in telephone and cable and you are looking at another $150 minimum.

    Housing? You might find a small apartment in a crime-riddled neighborhood for around that much. Here, you are lucky to find housing for under $1000 per month — and this isn’t anywhere near the cost in some areas of the country.

    The one thing Mrs. DuToit doesn’t take into consideration is how costs have continued to rise over the past twenty years while wages have remained stagnant. Your dollar doesn’t buy as much today as it did even three years ago, and it certainly doesn’t buy as much as it did the last time the minimum wage was raised.

    The fact is, the states that have raised the minimum wage on their own tends to have better economies than the states that haven’t.

  10. ORWAC86 Comment by ORWAC86

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    Don’t forget that any increase in a person’s gross income is also accompanied by a corresponding increase in their taxes withheld. Wage increase = tax increase. Not a coincidence.

  11. Unregistered Comment by nerbygirl

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    The minimum wage will not be increased. President Bush has already stated that he will veto the bill, so this is another waste of Congressional time. Since they are in session less than 150 days a year, they are TRULY wasting our tax dollars. But hey, they’re Democrats, they make a living raising our taxes and wasting our money on “programs”. Did anyone notice all of the raises they gave themselves last week? They referred to it as “expenses”, I believe.

    If you want to get a REAL understanding of our economy, read, “Basic Economics” by Thomas Sowell.

  12. Unregistered Comment by LadderLogic

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    The one thing Mrs. DuToit doesn’t take into consideration is how costs have continued to rise over the past twenty years while wages have remained stagnant.

    My wages over the last fifteen years have almost tripled. Well, take into account housing and gas and other cost increases… say, doubled in real terms. And no, I am not rich, I do have enough concerns regarding my personal finances.

    But the point is: my wages doubled because I did something for that. BTW, when we are talking about the growing burden of utility bills, one should not forget we are talking about monopolies here - from electricity to water to cable to garbage.

  13. Brian the sailor Comment by Brian the sailor

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    DJ Allyn,
    Where the fuck do you live? What you’re saying is insane.
    Move someplace cheaper!

  14. Lord Nazh Comment by Lord Nazh

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    Why is it that the left (and some on the right and center) fail to grasp history, economics and basic principles of money? (since according to studies, most leftists are from acadamia, you’d think they’d know ‘more’).

    Businesses are not there to provide for employees (yes the good ones do that, but that isn’t why they were started), business is in business to make … money?!? And if you raise overhead, they will raise prices or cut jobs. History, economics, freaking 3rd grade math will show this. Yet minimum wage is going up… idiots

    ot: Act of War?

  15. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    DJ Allyn,
    Where the fuck do you live? What you’re saying is insane.
    Move someplace cheaper!

    It’s the same in most metropolitan areas — the areas with the best economic growth. This area is thriving, and the minimum wage is up around $8.00 per hour. As the minimum wage increased, so too has everyone else’s wages and standards of living.

    Adjusted for inflation, workers today earn less than 30 years ago, the federal minimum wage at $5.15 an hour hasn’t been raised since 1997, and it’s now at its lowest point relative to average wages since 1949. It also means those earning it fall well below the poverty line, and they still have to pay a growing portion of their health insurance cost if they have an employer giving them any at all.

    Personally, I am doing alright. I am well above the median wage of $53,157 — a little over double that.

    The minimum wage will not be increased. President Bush has already stated that he will veto the bill, so this is another waste of Congressional time.

    So far, Bush has threatened to veto only the stem cell bill and the negotiating with drug companies for better drug prices bill. He might try to veto the minimum wage bill, but there are enough votes in congress to hand him his ass.

    The idea that he would veto a bill that says the government has to negotiate for better prices on drugs is stupid. Insurance companies and even the VA negotiate for drugs bought in bulk. Other countries that buy drugs from our pharmaceutical companies are able to negotiate for better prices.

  16. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Dave’s right about the cost of living out here in Kalifornia. My PG&E bill was one ninety-seven, cheap considering the cold. Rents in the shitties start at about a grand a month for a one bedroom apartment, a bit cheaper out of town. Even here in Dog Patch, fifty miles north of Fresno, you pay six or so for a one bedroom apartment. But wages tend to start at about seven bucks an hour. Or more. And don’t even think of buying a house for under two fifty…anywhere. Twice that in the cities.
    As for wages, I actually make less than I did fifteen years ago, due to the loss of a business. But starting again, as I tend to do, my wages have increased fifty per cent in four years. I busted my ass, always showed up sober and on time, that sort of thing. The type of employee if I didn’t call or show, my boss would be worried about me rather than pissed at me. So this raise will impact other places more than here, but nevertheless, an unwarranted intrusion. It only forces some employers to pay their illegals more……a total mess.

  17. Chance Comment by Chance

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    HAH! DJ is a Capatalist!! Your just prentending to be liberal so we feel sorry for, aincha DJ? You should change your name to DJ Allyn, CPD!

  18. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    When exactly were the feddies given the power to fuck with the wage scales of private businesses?

    Anybody?

    Shitcan the “minimum wage law”.

  19. LC Mike in Chi Comment by LC Mike in Chi

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    Any raise in the minimum wage gives unions the leverage to gouge for wage increases. The Demmies are just idling for the union vote as they always do.
    As baby boomers come of age, live longer than previous generations, enjoy more of their earned retirement, the economy will improve as they spend their childrens inheritance. You can raise the m/w to $10.00 an hour and it wouldn’t affect much if left to itself.
    Get those Dhem-wits involved though, and they’ll spend two dollars for every one that’s put back into the economic pool.

  20. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    HAH! DJ is a Capatalist!

    Sure, to a certain extent, I am. Slightly more capitalist than socialist, but a mixture nonetheless. There has to be a balance, because neither by itself works.

  21. Wild-Eyed Charlie Comment by Wild-Eyed Charlie

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    First: DJ Allyn, thanks for the help with the avatars. Manson was/is an @sshole; now I have a wild-eyed avatar that doesn’t glorify him.

    Second: If the minmum wage goes up, more illegal aliens will be needed to work for less money, and to replace those American workers that get fired.

  22. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    Mike hits a home run:

    Any raise in the minimum wage gives unions the leverage to gouge for wage increases. The Demmies are just idling for the union vote as they always do.

    Bingo dude. Nail, hammer, head. This baloney is not about helping the por’ ‘n starvin’ it’s all about repaying the unions for helping the traitorcrats get elected.

    Now nawlins is gonna NEED that tourism money even more since their already marginal economy is going to be hurt worse. As least they won tonight, GO SAINTS!!! They’re gonna need the Bears to lose tomorrow because if this get signed for any reason they are gonna NEED the extra tourism money a home NFC championship game would bring in.

    I repeat myself, but if you are one of the FIVE people in the whole U.S. supporting a family and making minimum wage… FIND A NEW JOB DUMBO! If you can’t find one, go to a charity and ask for help. Work a second job and take night classes to get a degree at a community college. It CAN be done by ANYBODY, the question is if you are willing to actually WORK to do it. Do something, ANYTHING, to try to drag yourself up by your bootstraps and if you refuse to give up you WILL succeed. Some bungholes may try to get into your way with crap about your age or race or religion or gender or whatever. Ignore them or report them as necessary and get back up off your duff and go around them and NEVER GIVE UP and you WILL make it eventually. Don’t just sit on your butt and wait for uncle sam to “help you”. Because anything a dhimmirat tries to do claiming to try to help you is a self-serving bald-faced LIE and will hurt you worse in the end.

    DJ sez:

    Sure, to a certain extent, I am. Slightly more capitalist than socialist, but a mixture nonetheless. There has to be a balance, because neither by itself works.

    As usual deej, wrong again. Whew you were worrying me there when you were saying intelligent stuff the other day. Pure unadulterated but REGULATED capitalism works fine without ANY socialism mixed in whatsoever. The only major problem that needs to be eliminated is individual jackoffs building trusts and monopolies to try to hurt others. But that doesn’t tack one MICRON of socialism. It just takes a little bit of oversight against non-competitive practices. And people who will actually work rather than sit on their arses and wait for a handout from uncle sam, punching out babies like clockwork for “raises”. Despite the dhimmirats and their bilge water “great society” bullcrap we still have that to some degree, and we could have it all the way again. But unfortunately the lying socialist bastards aren’t yet willing to give up and admit their entire philosophy is a lie from cover to cover.

    RH

  23. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    All of this talk about how this country was founded on “Christian values”, and you forget Matthew 25?

    Jesus was the first Socialist.

  24. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    DJ, I didn’t say a word about “Christian values” (maybe somebody else did?), but if you think Mt. 25 makes Christ a socialist your head is so far up your arse you need to pipe in air through your CHEST, not just your navel. That takes a particularly stretchy neck, but you seem to be pretty at stretching credulity on some things so maybe you have one strechy enough…

    Mt. 25 in fact is a pretty blatantly capitalistic chapter. It condemns as FOOLS who say “give us your oil and share it with us who have none” (v8). It praises those who go out and USE their talents and make more money (v21,v23). And that same parable — if you twist it into going TOO FAR — could even have v29 as about as ANTIsocialist as you can possibly get. Of course in that case he’s not saying what those who would like to use it that way want to twist it into. It’s not saying go rob the por ‘n starvin’ (build monopolies and anti-competitive trusts)… but it’s saying those who are LAZY and DO NOTHING with what they’ve been given will end up with even less than they had before. Welfare recipients, anybody? And then finally it talks about CHARITY that YOU yourself VOLUNTARILY give to others… NOT that the government takes FROM you to redistribute “fairly” to the “disadvantaged”.

    Now you can twist other scriptures into trying to make Christ a socialist. You won’t be interpreting it very correctly at all, but you can try… with others. Mt. 25 isn’t one of them.

    RH

  25. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    The Final Judgment

    31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

    32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

    33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.

    34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

    35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,

    36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

    37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

    38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

    39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

    40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

    42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

    43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’

    44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’

    45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’

    46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

  26. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    Yup, I though that’s where you were going DJ, and wrong again. Great job of trying to read into scripture what’s not there. I already explained this one, but I’ll do so again. This is talking about CHARITY. This is not talking about COERCIVE STEALING from people in redistribution campaigns. There is NOTHING in capitalism that excludes charity, and there is NOTHING in socialism that ALLOWS for it!

    So IF this is your proof, then thanks for proving my point for me — that Christ was not a socialist.

    RH

  27. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    PS… God telling you to do something when you have the free will to choose to obey or not to obey is NOT the same thing as they government forcing you to do something.

    You may pay the price for your failure to obey, but that’s still CHARITY *NOT* socialism.

    RH

  28. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    I work two jobs, neither of them paying a lot more than minimum wage. You know what, I actually find it fairly offensive that the goverment feels the need to negotiate on my behalf so I don’t get reamed.

    If the job doesn’t pay enough to live on, either get another one, better yourself (my current work in progress, but transferring school information from the UK to here is a -pain-, especially if you are in your mid-thirties) or work two of them. It sucks to work two jobs, but it also sucks to live outdoors in January.

    Pick one and live with it. Even if I could claim the stuff my tax dollars pay for, I most likely wouldn’t without being in some -dire- straits.

  29. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    So IF this is your proof, then thanks for proving my point for me — that Christ was not a socialist.

    There are too many definitions of “socialism”. It’s a word that has gotten a bad rap over the years.

  30. Brian the sailor Comment by Brian the sailor

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    Allyn is fucking with us.
    He’s gotta be.
    “socialism” hasn’t got a bad rap over the years. “Liberalism” has gotten a bad rap. It used to mean free speech and equal opportunity. Now it’s been co-opted into socialism.
    There is no way to define socialism in a way that’s conducive to human achievement. The two can’t coexist.

    You guys, proofread this for me before I hit “submit comment” I’m going to bed now.

  31. Unregistered Comment by Rutho

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    It’s the same in most metropolitan areas — the areas with the best economic growth. This area is thriving, and the minimum wage is up around $8.00 per hour. As the minimum wage increased, so too has everyone else’s wages and standards of living.

    DJ Allen, you are confusing cause and effect. Increasing the minimum wage doesn’t increase the standard of living, an increased standard of living allows the minimum wage to be higher before it shows up negative impacts.

    As soon as the cost of minimum wage surpasses the benefit received by those paying it you start seeing an increase in unemployment of those low skilled/young workers receiving the minimum wage. Feel free to say Du’oh.

  32. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

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    Almost every post had something I wanted to quote. :confused_wp: The thing I’ve said before, I’ll say again. Are they really that stupid? How can they remember to breathe? Allyn, while the socialist movement would be wonderful, It only works if people work from pride rather than capital gain. The UTOPIAN society is a great concept, but it will not work. This move on the part of the dems will only lead to ridiculous inflation and/or unemployment. The people who own businesses are in it for the money. If they have to pay their minimum wage troops higher wages, either they will let a lot of people go, or jack prices way up. Please understand basic economics. It WILL mean one of those, if not both, things. Guaranteed. Watch, and become a neocon.

  33. Unregistered Pingback by Inoperable Terran » Why the economy is about to suck

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    […] Misha and Mrs. du Toit explain the minimum wage. Posted by Ian S. in […]

  34. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Cmblake6 illuminates the shallow brochure-tweaking/windowdressing/nur-fur-aussehen true motives for the legislation.
    The prices at the tiendas will adjust to the income of the haciendas.

    Well, they did promise to turn the economy around,,

  35. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    The demo drive by on the economy…..

  36. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    There are too many definitions of “socialism”. It’s a word that has gotten a bad rap over the years.

    Never once working when tried and killing off 100 million “undesirables” in the process will do that to an ideology.

  37. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Now it’s been co-opted into socialism.

    No, this is something Conservatives have done to label Liberalism for something it’s really not. Sure, there may be some elements that have a whiff of Socialism about them — mainly through the agreement of certain ideals — but not many. Liberals are far too capitalistic to be Socialists.

    Never once working when tried and killing off 100 million “undesirables” in the process will do that to an ideology.

    Sure, if you are talking about a purely Socialitic system. Neither pure Socialism nor pure Capitalism will work unless there is a balance between the two.

    If you took each out to their extremes, the money and power end up in the hands of a few leaving the masses as vitual slaves. Pure Capitalism or pure Socialism eventually ends up as either fascism or an oligarchy.

  38. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Jesus was the first Socialist.

    “Jesus was a Capricorn,
    He ate organic food…”

    35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,

    36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

    37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

    38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

    39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

    40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

    Dave, old friend, please show me where Jesus commands us to use the Coercive Power of Government to FORCE someone to give to the poor.

    If charity is not voluntary, it means less than nothing. Using force (don’t pay your taxes for a while!) to steal someone’s money to give to another is not Christian, and not Charity, and so cannot be “Christian Charity.”

    And as a small point of information:

    Over the last five years, taxes and other involuntary “Contributions” have gone down. Surprisingly, real voluntary charitable giving has gone up. By more than taxes have gone down.

    Imagine that.

    “Imagine there’s no libruls
    It’s easy if you try…”

  39. SkyeChild Comment by SkyeChild

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    IIRC, there’s a passage in the Bible that says, A man who does not care for his family is worse than an infidel. I don’t think Jesus was advocating government intervention.

    This is the problem when passages from anything are taken out of context and used to bolster one argument or another.

  40. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Dave, old friend, please show me where Jesus commands us to use the Coercive Power of Government to FORCE someone to give to the poor.

    He doesn’t. He just gave us a blueprint to work from. Heaven forbid that our government of We The People build a model from that blueprint.

  41. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Dave, Our Lord indeed commands that we help “the Least, the Last and the Lost.” Minimum wage laws are not the most effective way to accomplish this.

    Some jobs are just not worth seven bucks an hour.

    Invariably, raising the minimum wage has cost the people it is designed to help. Of course, since libruls are just looking for a warm fuzzy feeling, as opposed to looking AT evidence. The loss of jobs every time the minimum wage is raised counts for less than the good feelings of the well meaning.

    The fact that the loss of jobs occurs within one of the most loyal Democrat voting blocks doesn’t matter, since the mainstream media will NEVER tell them that the reason they lost their job was a minimum wage increase - they will just hear that it was the eeeeeevvil business owners not giving a damn about them. Not that no business can survive paying $7.25 per hour for some slob who cannot produce more than $3.50 worth of anything per hour.

    Of course, don’t mention the Union jobs that have their base wage tied to the minimum wage. Oh, no, please don’t think about the UAW or SEIU workers who will get a 40% raise out of this nonsense.

    Charity begins at home. Not in the halls of Congress.

    (What’s the opposite of Congress? Progress.)

  42. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    DJ sez (without thinking, as usual):

    He just gave us a blueprint to work from. Heaven forbid that our government of We The People build a model from that blueprint.

    Sure, why not? I’m game. Lets have rapists and sex offenders stoned, theives forced to repay four to seven times what they stole, murderers revenge-executed by the nearest blood relative, manslaughterers having to spend the next 20-30 years (on average) in a city of refuge, everybody required to go to church on Saturday and those who fail are stoned to death, and our tax rate is 10% with another 2.86% yearly average commanded to give to charity. Boy, that’s a great system! Why don’t we just adopt that!?

    And you call yourself a liberal???

    God did indeed give us guidelines but at times the national laws for ancient Isreal were given for that nation and that time only. The modern Christian is supposed to be able to *rightly* decipher what is the unalterable spiritual law and what is the temporary law for the nation of Isreal… to understand what laws cannot be changed EVER and which were laws “added [(to OTHER laws already existing!)] “because of transgressions”… to understand and embrace forgiveness for anybody who truly repents and CHANGES… to hate evil in every form with an absolute passion… and to understand the intent of the law and not “toe the line” of the letter of the law trying to go as far towards the ditch as you can without tipping over the edge. And one ditch that you can go into is socialism. Nazism, marxist-lenninism, maoism, castroism, and more… they’re all communism or variants thereof and they are ALL completely unsupportable from the Bible, no matter how hard you try to do it. God commands charity. The minute the government takes it from you by force it is no longer charity and becomes socialism. And that is too far over the line. Period.

    And if you think that’s too absolutist you have only yourself to blame. You brought God into the argument and that means there is no room for anything except black and white. When it’s merely human opinion there’s room for negotiation and compromise. There are no shades of grey anymore once you invoke His authority.

    No, this is something Conservatives have done to label Liberalism for something it’s really not.

    Sorry, but wrong again. This is something liberals have done to themselves by RETAINING the false label of liberals while the vast majority of them were actually being socialists/communists. Conservatives just decided to apply the label that they had earned by their own actions.

    RH

  43. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    If charity is not voluntary, it means less than nothing.

    And LC Wil nails it to the wall.

    Just as conversion at swordpoint means less than nothing, so does “charity” “given” at gunpoint.

    The Lord G-d gave us free will so that we could act out of the kindness of our hearts, so that we could CHOOSE good over evil and thereby redeem ourselves and get closer to Him.

    Forcing somebody to do “good” isn’t good, in any sense of the word. It is evil in its purest form, subjugation of the free will that is our gift from G-d in order to exalt the evildoers that take His name in vain and use it for their own nefarious purposes.

    Not only is income redistribution NOT Christian, it is as far from being Christian as you can possibly get.

  44. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    If I be truely free, I will choose my own charities.
    Sendible allocation of resources and all that is something the individual should reserve the right to.
    The Arts™ isn’t something I can see as a critical expediture, yet. I MUST donate my cash to showcase some venue for something that would sell it’s self if the shopping public deemed it worthy.
    I won’t bogart bandwidth with the parade of exaples.

  45. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Yes, giving must come from the heart as well as the wallet. I choose to donate as well. The Disabled American Vets, Veterans of Foreign Wars, The Help Hospitalized Veterans, the March of Dimes, (having lost a son to a birth defect). But this is what the wife and I support. Nobody makes us, we just do it. Others donate time to organizations. All to be lauded for their charity. Far better this way then to have the government ration it out.

  46. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    If I be truely free, I will choose my own charities.

    Ducks Unlimited, NRA Political Victory Fund and Legal Defense Fund, etc.

  47. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Yeah, I forgot to mention the NRA…oh well. Back in the corner…..

  48. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Whatever yer drinkin’,, take a penalty belt!

  49. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Some jobs are just not worth seven bucks an hour.

    Maybe not to you. Let’s try this in the reverse:

    If that certain job was the only job that was available to you, and it paid less than a livable wage, would you think that the work you were doing was worth the money you were being paid?

    Some people only have that option to a minimum wage job. Maybe they would like to get a better paid job, but cannot afford to go to pay their bills AND go to school. You would want them to work two, maybe three jobs just to keep their head above water.

    What you are advocating is economic slavery — something this country has never really gotten over.

    This country thrives only when there is a large and growing middle class, not an upper class and a poverty class.

    This is something liberals have done to themselves by RETAINING the false label of liberals while the vast majority of them were actually being socialists/communists.

    Which makes as much sense as Conservatives being labeled fascists, because they don’t have a problem with multinational corporations taking over our country. “It’s free market!” Privatize everything.

    You all rant and rail against raising the minimum wage, but clearly a HUGE majority of people in this country feel differently.

  50. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    If that certain job was the only job that was available to you, and it paid less than a livable wage, would you think that the work you were doing was worth the money you were being paid?

    Pardon, but I’d rather worry about the gun at my head that made me take a job that could not sustain me.
    Sometimes you have to hustle AND travel.

  51. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    You all rant and rail against raising the minimum wage, but clearly a HUGE majority of people in this country feel differently.

    They do? I don’t recall that being on the ballot, but obviously I wasn’t paying attention.

    No problem, though. If there’s this HUGE majority feeling so strongly about it, then THEY can pay the truly HUGE costs of it.

    If their majority is so HUGE, it shouldn’t be much of a financial burden on them, now should it?

    I look forward to the day when the same HUGE majority voting themselves handouts from MY pocket will be the same HUGE majority who will actually have to PAY for it.

    Until then, the fuckheads can go fuck themselves.

  52. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    You all rant and rail against raising the minimum wage, but clearly a HUGE majority of people in this country feel differently.

    . . . 6% want it raised, 4% want it left alone, 90% don’t give a flying damn, and CNN, SeeBS, etc., report it as a 60 - 40 split.

    .
    .

    Right.

    One person out of thirty LIVES on minimum wage, as opposed to a high school kid earning money to put gas in the car daddy bought for him. Raising the minimum wage puts him out of work.

    Tony works for minimum wage at a cotton mill in Georgia. Tony gets paid $5.15 an hour, and for his labor, produces $6.00 in refined raw cotton fiber, thereby allowing his employer (massa) to make a small profit. If massa is losing money, don’t expect him to stay in business.

    Minimum wage goes up to $7.25 an hour, but ol’ Tony still only makes $6.00 worth of refined raw cotton fiber per hour.

    Question: How much longer will Tony have a job before de Massa buys a machine that produces $16.00 worth of refined raw cotton fiber per hour? Sure, the machine costs damn near a year’s labor, but how long is said Massa going to be forced to lose money before he just closes the fucking factory and retires, thereby getting rid of the busybody unions, busybody government thugs, and all the whiny Tonys he has had to put up with for the last twenty years?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Anyone over the age of 20 who is only making minimum wage has only himself to blame. Choices he / she has made over the course of his life makes all the difference. If Tony is only making minimum wage, why does he HAVE a family to raise? Why didn’t he pay attention in school? He had chances to learn.

    The Good Lord knows I’m not the best example of success, but I don’t blame my boss or the Govenment for my shortcomings.

    I cannot put my finger on the part of the Constitution that gives the Federal Government the right to interfere in a voluntary, private contract (that is, my right to work for who i choose, and their right to pay me what they feel my labor is worth. If we disagree, I’ll let the market decide what i am worth, and I won’t feel insulted at the result.)

    In other words, if Tony isn’t happy with his pay, he is perfectly free to move to North Carolina and raise Tobacco. Georgia has no magic hold on him. The Imperial Federal Government interfering insults both Tony and massa.

  53. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    I worked two jobs for ten years. Went five years without a single day off. You won’t hear me complaining, either. Fortunately I don’t do it now….such conditions provide their own motivations.

  54. ohio right wing nut Comment by ohio right wing nut

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    I work part time at a bowling alley for a good friend of mine we employe about ten such high school kids at min. wage, ohio just voted in a wage increase in november (yes it was on the ballot). every good or service we provide just went up (beer .25 liquor .50 bowling .25) and when we get people asking why we are raising our prices i just ask if they voted for the wage increse & when the say yes i tell them it’s their fault. if income doesnt go up wages cant go up without losing money.

  55. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    when the say yes i tell them it’s their fault.

    An Ah-HA experience,, Now we know where the money really will come from, and the pain has a focal point,,
    DARE them to say ouch!

  56. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    DJ sez:

    Which makes as much sense as Conservatives being labeled fascists, because they don’t have a problem with multinational corporations taking over our country. “It’s free market!” Privatize everything.

    And once again you show just how little you understand of history or the real world today.

    This country thrives only when there is a large and growing middle class….

    What a huge surprise… that’s what we’ve HAD for the past few years… under Bush and his tax-cuts-for-the-MIDDLE-class plan. Tum te tum tum.

    RH

  57. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    P.S. emperor… I really and TRULY laughed out loud at your words. Great comeback!

    RH

  58. Beeblebrox Comment by Beeblebrox

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    Hey Robert, stop complaining about how DJ doesn’t know anything about history or economics. This is self-evident.

    Several have mentioned this already but it is worth repeating. The government, by forcing a minimum wage OF ANY LEVEL, is using the threat of violence to do so.

    If I refuse to pay the minimum wage at my coffeehouse here north of Atlanta, I run afoul of the law. If I continue to refuse to follow the law eventually the police come to take me to jail. If I refuse to go with the police then they have the governmental authority to shoot me dead for my unwillingness to pay the minimum wage.

    These libs are all talk about peace and love but are actually the very definition of jack-booted fascists. They don’t mind sending the storm-troopers into my place of business to enforce their view of the world. No not at all. Hypocrits.

    DJ needs to remember that capitalism is the worst form of economic theory except for all the others.

    Oh, and BTW, we pay $8.00/hr. to start as a barrista so that we can attract high school and college kids who don’t want to be paid the minimum wage and are willing to work to get a higher paying entry level job. Raise the minimum wage and I have to raise my starting rate to attract the better employees. I will cover this extra cost by hiring less employees.

  59. ohio right wing nut Comment by ohio right wing nut

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    No what i forgot to mention is most of these touchy-feely pinheads really believe is that ALL BUSINESS OWNERS are mega rich and just hoarding the greenbacks for themselves. and that they have to spread the wealth around cause i just ain’t fair. I once seen the monthly electric bill for said bowling alley. All I can say is HOLY F!@#ING SHIT!!!!

  60. ohio right wing nut Comment by ohio right wing nut

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    Another point, it may sound selfish But I have worked the last 20 years and I know what My employer can pay me and still put some money in his pocket.
    but as i understand the law here in ohio every year there will be an increase how long will it take before I’m making minimum wage again? And at or below the poverty line

    THANKS ASSHOLES ALL MY SCHOOLING GOES FOR NOTHING!

    :doh_tb: :wallbash_tb:

  61. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    THANKS ASSHOLES ALL MY SCHOOLING GOES FOR NOTHING!

    Well with universal college devaluing the worth of a degree every year, you were screwed anyway.

    Seems to me that if college degrees are so thick on the ground that they want a 4yr one to answer phones for a living, it’s not worth much.

    And with the diploma mills bending over backwards to make their diversity quotas all you need to do is claim something other than white male and you’ll pass with -any- kind of effort.

  62. juandos Comment by juandos

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    Remember what the party of the stupids & fecal filled in Chicago tried against the big box retailers?

    Thomas Sowell can remind you…

  63. Unregistered Comment by manbearpig

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    Am I the only one in the U.S who’s noticed that “minimum-wage jobs” like working at McDonald’s already pay $2 - $4 over the minimum wage?

    What good will come out of raising the minimum wage when Adam Smith’s “Invisible Hand” is already doing a good job of adjusting it? I’d like to see legislation abolishing the minimum wage, not raising it.

    Raising the minimum wage won’t help anyone and it will make it harder for high school kids who get part time jobs to primarily increase their disposable income.

    Could the dems just be using this issue for political reasons and to further their dream of seeing a thermonuclear class war in the US?

  64. LC HOGHEAD Comment by LC HOGHEAD

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    VERY GOOD ANALYSIS INDEED !!!!

  65. Nanashi Comment by Nanashi

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    Oh, and BTW, we pay $8.00/hr. to start as a barrista so that we can attract high school and college kids who don’t want to be paid the minimum wage and are willing to work to get a higher paying entry level job. Raise the minimum wage and I have to raise my starting rate to attract the better employees. I will cover this extra cost by hiring less employees.

    And that’s what minimum wage increases mean: more Self-Checkouts in place of living, breathing cashiers at Safeway, even though the price of merchandise will remain the same or even increase.

    At best, the minimum wage increase won’t do a single thing: most major employers pay more than minimum wage, anyway. But at worst, it’s going to cripple those small business that liberals claim to champion. (Kiss that local farmer’s market Sayonara) CNN went so far as to conduct a study that showed that on average, a mere 40c extra per hour — after taxes — turns out to be about $1200/year. Good for the person, but bad for a small business.

    And that’s not counting the fact that the government is just going to take that out of the worker’s paycheck in taxes, anyway. In short, it’s a fancy tax increase.

    Could the dems just be using this issue for political reasons and to further their dream of seeing a thermonuclear class war in the US?

    I suspect that that’s all this is: a grand dupe of people who know next to nothing about economics. Not only does the government get more money without the stigma of a tax hike, but people actually think this is for their benefit. Believe you me, workers living off minimum wage won’t notice a change in their finances, but at least they’ll feel better about it.

  66. LC HOGHEAD Comment by LC HOGHEAD

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    Mrs du Toit makess much sense. I nominate her for the Council of Economic Advisors, or SEC Treas