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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » “The Critics Agree: 300 is Gay Racist Fascist War-Pr0n for the XBox Generation!!”
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After reading Jim Treacher’s round-up of effeminate, post-modernist, bedwetting, handwringing reviews of 300, we’ve decided that we’re not only going to see it, we’re going to see it a dozen times at least and then, once the DVD comes out, we’re going to buy enough copies to cover the walls of the Imperial Recreational Facilities.

Which is funny, considering that our previous position, prior to all of the hysterical reactions from reviewers, was to merely rent it at some unspecified point in the future after it came out on DVD.

But if the Brokeback Muttheads writing reviews hate it that much… Well, let’s just say that we can’t think of a more impressive endorsement.

Mr Snyder really ought to publicly thank those twits for the excellent publicity campaign they’ve been running for him.

Not so much because it would be the gentlemanly thing to do, but because it would make their pointed heads explode.

74 Responses to ““The Critics Agree: 300 is Gay Racist Fascist War-Pr0n for the XBox Generation!!””
  1. sig94 Comment by sig94

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    Half nekked hoplites? What’s not to like?

  2. Kristopher Comment by Kristopher

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    So … Gay is bad when it supports using violence to oppose tyranny?

    Will they throw Oreos at the Spartans?

  3. Unregistered Comment by MurdockTheCrazy

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    Until recently, I hated 300 . As an Ancient Greek History Geek™ (say that ten times fast), I find its historical inaccuracies annoying as hell… I viewed it about the same way you Christian’s probably view Jesus Christ: Superstar… A nearly sacreligious butchery of an incredible event in history.

    But now that I learn the Liberals are going batshit over it, I’m going to back this film all the way, and buy enough tickets for my entire block.

    I can’t help but wonder how they would have reacted to a more historically accurate version… It probably would have pissed them off even more.

  4. BC, Imperial Torturer Comment by BC, Imperial Torturer

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    I guess I’ll have to break my general boycott of anything WhoreyWood puts out and go see the damned movie, if it has this many LefTards in spastic bouts of apoplectic pussyfarts. *Looks up local showtimes*

  5. Gang of One Comment by Gang of One

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    If it makes the libtards go into hysterics, it must be something to behold. I love watching these jerks sputter and spew their PC-soaked bromides. They make me laugh.

  6. BC, Imperial Torturer Comment by BC, Imperial Torturer

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    Sig, what do un-painted Mi-2’s have to do with this?

    :tongue1_tb:

  7. Unregistered Comment by seanmiller

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    Sire,

    I saw it last night. Twas a sight to behold. Theres a very good reason the bed-wetting crowd hates this movie…because it throws in their face everything they arent.

    Im gonna see it again for sure. Its more than worth it!

  8. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    I can’t say it’s any surprise the little deluded libruls are panning this movie. They can’t understand it.

    History is full of examples of desperate, tragic, impossible, “No, I’m not gonna fucking move, and you can’t make me!” last stands, persuant to something that the libtards don’t have.

    Honor.

    Words like Thermopylae come to mind.
    Masada.
    The Alamo.

    The thought that something so simple as a man’s sworn word is more important than his life. The thought that a promise might acually mean something is foreign to them.

    No wonder they don’t like the movie. It reminds them of something they never had.

  9. sig94 Comment by sig94

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    Ohhhhh the Spartans are coming! The Spartans are coming.

    *liberal hissy fit*

    Oh shut up and swallow faggot.

    Mope, ya got any offsets for me?

  10. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Yeah, Mope, what’s a truckload of offsets going for these days? Do I get a volume discount?

  11. Unregistered Comment by 230Gr JHP

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    Sire,
    Please check the Imperial PayPal acct. and take the Royal Highness to see this outstanding movie,You WILL not be disappointed!!!

  12. Unregistered Comment by thehumanlynx

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    I just watched it. It is great. Upon a couple more viewings it will be one of my top movies ever.

    Its only like gay porn if that is what you are into. We all know that gays don’t go around fighting, they go around dancing and cuddling and protesting. There was none of that gay stuff in this movie. Only killing, the way a good movie about battle should be. While some homos will probably get boners from all the topless guys, only a homo would find the intense fighting erotic. I was not turned on in the least, rather I was pumped that they were killing so many dirty Persians under Xerxes.

    To all other people who view war as war, it will be, surprise… WAR. Go see it, it is a really great movie. They said Braveheart sucked, Passion of the Christ sucked, Gladiator Sucked… in short they know nothing.

  13. Unregistered Comment by thehumanlynx

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    faggots.. sheesh. They want to ruin a good movie about battle by getting aroused by it. Go watch the mountain sheepherder movie, that one is designed to turn you skin sword fighters on.

  14. MCPO Airdale Comment by MCPO Airdale

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    Booked tickets on-line after Dana got her panties bunched up over it. Have to go on Wednesday. . . it’s sold out until then.

  15. Ten-Ten Comment by Ten-Ten

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    “……I like football and pr0no and books about war…..”

  16. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    killing and burning, and whiskers on kittens,
    sharp knives and fast cars, and warm winter mittens,
    beating down libtards, and drinking with friends,
    These are a few of my favorite things.

  17. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    sorry, Ten-Ten. Couldn’t help it.

  18. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Crunchie Jr saw it last night, said it was great. I had pre-warned him that it was based on a graphic novel so not to expect an historically accurate rendition of Thermoplyae, so he wasn’t disappointed in that regards.

    He kept asking me to go but I was to wiped out from defensive tactics class (I ain’t as young as I used to be, or so my aching muscles are telling me). Ain’t no way in hell I’m going to a theater on Friday night anyway, might end up smacking some teenage punk’s hat in to how it’s supposed to be worn, you know brim FORWARD! Cripes I hate teenagers.

    Definitely wait for the DVD for me.

  19. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    MurdockTheCrazy:

    I can’t help but wonder how they would have reacted to a more historically accurate version…

    Heh. Annoying, isn’t it? Nothing escapes Hollyweird without being mangled beyond all resemblance to actual history. Many of the great events in history are more monumental than any fiction.

  20. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    LC Wil:

    No wonder they don’t like the movie. It reminds them of something they never had.

    Ouch. It is the truth.

    Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
    that here, obedient to their laws, we lie

    Pressfield’s translation of the battlefield inscription

  21. LC Beaker Comment by LC Beaker

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    The reason Thermopylae stands out is not just because of the odds the Spartans faced. It stands out because the Spartans had an opportunity to retreat, yet stayed and sacrificed themselves to buy time for their comrades. LC Wil is exactly right when he states that liberals hate this because it reminds them of what they lack: honor.

    Leftists always miss the point. When we remember the Spartans at Thermopylae, or the defenders of the Alamo, or the Marines at Belleau Wood, we do not glorify “war.” What we honor is their determination and their sacrifice. What we honor is their heroism.

    The Spartans stood and died defending their honor, and defending their comrades. I wonder, what would these leftist fucktards would be willing to risk life and limb defending?

  22. Unregistered Comment by LC The Humble Devildog, Imperial Scholar

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    Okay, I’ve now seen it.

    The historical aspects of it would have to enhanced to get UP to “historically inaccurate”.

    Among the anachronistic and/or blatantly non-historical things are:

    An Athenian city council in Sparta. There weren’t any politicians in Sparta. It was ruled by two kings, both of whom were warriors. In addition, EVERY Spartan male was raised to be a warrior. End of subject. Anything non-warrior was done by slaves. One of the reasons Sparta was so militaristic was the slaves outnumbered the Spartans by about…oh…100 to 1. So, no city council. If there isn’t a city council, there isn’t any plot line about politicians backstabbing the brave warriors.

    The Oracle was at Delphi, not Sparta.

    The Spartans were slaves to “the old ways”…they left the “age of reason and logic” crap to the Athenians.

    Spartan women didn’t throw hissy-fits when their sons were sent off to their ‘graduation exercise’. They hadn’t had custody of their sons for over 10 years by the time the Spartan was sent out into the wild with nothing but his cloak. In addition, it was a 300+ year old tradition. By that time, the mothers were used to it.

    The phalanx used by the Spartans wasn’t much of a phalanx. It was a collection of actors pretending to be in a phalanx.

    Everything about the Persian army is just…wrong. The Immortals were archers, not Sith Lord ninjas. No rhinos, no elephants, and no Nubian freaks.

    Bribing Spartans with gold was…less than useless. Spartans didn’t use gold as a means of commerce. The entire Spartan economy was based upon the source of Sparta’s strength: the mass amounts of iron weapons they produced. Spartan money was made of iron. They left the slavish devotion to petty baubles to the Athenians. Since iron, and the proper use of, was the source of Sparta’s wealth, they used an appropriate method of exchange. Handing gold ANYTHING to a Spartan got a puzzled look in response from him.

    The Spartans weren’t fighting for a “new age of reason”. “Reason” is STILL most often used to justify breaking codes of honor, shirking one’s duty, and profaning the holy. Spartans were fighting for duty. They were fighting because Xerxes was throwing a fight, and the Spartans crashed the party. Spartans fought where the fight was. The Spartans left the “new age of reason and logic” crap to the Athenians.

    Most glaring error is that the Spartans fought in armor made of iron. No armor to be seen on the Spartans in the movie.

    I could go on for days about the historical errors, but, that’s not why I went to see it. I went to see the movie to see the greatest warriors the Earth has ever known (and, yes, I include the Samurai in my assessment. They were amateurs compared to the Spartans.) kick some ass. And the movie delivers. Not nearly as often as you’d think, based on all the sniveling about how violent it is, but…it delivers.

    If it isn’t contained in a battle scene or explanation of the Spartan existence, it’s probably historically wrong. Go see it anyway. And then, actually do some research on the Spartans, to fully grasp the significance of their stand at Thermopylae. The truth of what they did is more heroic than the comic book treatment of a myth about what they did. This movie is good training wheels for someone wanting to know what devotion to honor and duty REALLY looks like.

  23. LC MoMinuteMan Comment by LC MoMinuteMan

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    Crunchie sez:

    Ain’t no way in hell I’m going to a theater on Friday night anyway, might end up smacking some teenage punk’s hat in to how it’s supposed to be worn, you know brim FORWARD! Cripes I hate teenagers.

    Definitely wait for the DVD for me.

    I’m with ya there, Crunch… With my 32″ LCD H-D widescreen and surround sound theater sound system w/ subwoofer and recliner, why would I wanna fuck up a perfectly good movie experience by going out and having to deal with the wigga’s, sista’s and thugs, oh my…

  24. Unregistered Comment by LC The Humble Devildog, Imperial Scholar

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    Oh, I forgot one funny tidbit…

    The Libtards are carrying on about how racist it is that the movie has heroic Europeans facing EEEEvil Asian hordes…

    Xerxes uses blatantly Christian phrases to describe himself throughout the entire movie. Snyder and Miller intended the movie to be about brave, heroic atheists making a stand against EEEEvil forces of religious conservatism.

    So, every Libtard complaint about the movie is Libtard cannibalism. They’re eating their own on this one. Snyder and Miller are no friends of conservatives.

  25. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    When was the last time you ever agreed with a ‘critic’ on a movie?

    Usually, when critics say they give “two thumbs up” I usually have to wonder “up where?”

    I think I own more DVDs than Blockbuster, and I find that the movies that don’t have all of the hype associated with them turn out to be some of the best.

    As far as ‘300′ goes, I am going to wait until it comes out in DVD — mainly because I am not going to sit in a theater to watch it when I have a perfectly good home theater.

    I could care less whether a movie follows ‘true historical fact’ — it is supposed to be entertainment, not a history lesson.

    I remember when ‘Alexander’ was released and all of the complaining that went on here. It’s a friggin’ movie! If you walk away from it feeling that you were entertained, then all is good, because that is all that was intended.

    Reading underlying agendas into it and looking for some convoluted hidden message means that you are thinking waaaay too hard.

  26. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    Reading underlying agendas into it and looking for some convoluted hidden message means that you are thinking waaaay too hard.

    A-Freakin’ Men!

    Liking that avatar, DJ.

  27. juandos Comment by juandos

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    Humble Devildog says:

    The Libtards are carrying on about how racist it is that the movie has heroic Europeans facing EEEEvil Asian hordes…

    Oh hell yes they are as this bit of whining drive penned by Dana Stevens of Slate shows: “One of the few war movies I’ve seen in the past two decades that doesn’t include at least some nod in the direction of antiwar sentiment, 300 is a mythic ode to righteous bellicosity.

    If that wasn’t bad enough, consider this from the same pantywaist: “In at least one way, the film is true to the ethos of ancient Greece: It conflates moral excellence and physical beauty (which, in this movie, means being young, white, male, and fresh from the gyms of Brentwood).
    Here are just a few of the categories that are not-so-vaguely conflated with the “bad” (i.e., Persian) side in the movie: black people. Brown people. Disfigured people. Gay men (not gay in the buff, homoerotic Spartan fashion, but in the effeminate Persian style). Lesbians. Disfigured lesbians. Ten-foot-tall giants with filed teeth and lobster claws. Elephants and rhinos (filthy creatures both). The Persian commander, the god-king Xerxes (Rodrigo Santoro) is a towering, bald club fag with facial piercings, kohl-rimmed eyes, and a disturbing predilection for making people kneel before him.

    This is just to damn funny by half…

  28. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Dave, just out of curiosity, WTF IS that creature?

    You come up with some of the most interesting Avatars…

  29. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    DJ sez:

    Reading underlying agendas into it and looking for some convoluted hidden message means that you are thinking waaaay too hard.

    Amen brudda, I think waaaay too hard all week and try to do as little thinking on the weekends as possible. Standing rule around my house on weekends, if your question can’t be answered with a yes or no..then it’s beyond my current mental activity…wait ’til Monday to ask it.

    I’m thinking about going into Bellevue to see it tonight, I’m home alone…wife’s out of town and wouldn’t see it with me anyways…my son is on a date….so it’s just me and the dog, and he’s asking too many complicated questions.

    History Channel is showing a pretty accurate and pretty interesting show on the Battle of Thermopylae right now…

    DJ also sez:

    I could care less whether a movie follows ‘true historical fact’ — it is supposed to be entertainment, not a history lesson.

    If the movie is based on an historical event, then I kind of like them to be a little accurate in their telling. That’s what ruined Pearl Harbor for me, I loved the CG battle scenes, but the absolute innacuracy of it just killed it…that and the acting. Now compare that to My Darling Clementine , it was a totally bogus telling of the Earp vs. Clanton story, but Henry Fonda and Victor Mature and the other actors just shine so brightly in that movie that I don’t care how innacurate it is….it’s a great flick.

    Oh, and if you want to see a REALLY good movie about Pearl Harbor and the US Navy in World War II, check out In Harm’s Way….again, a little on the innacurate side but one of John Wayne’s best movies, and the final battle scene is a masterpiece of filmmaking.

    See y’all at the movies

  30. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    p.s. DJ,

    cool avatar…that’s an old Doom character isn’t it?

    by the way, how do you animate your avatar?

  31. Unregistered Comment by LC The Humble Devildog, Imperial Scholar

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    Wil,

    Dave, just out of curiosity, WTF IS that creature?

    DJ’s avatar is a demon from the game Doom.

    DJ,

    Reading underlying agendas into it and looking for some convoluted hidden message means that you are thinking waaaay too hard.

    If you think a filmmaker or writer isn’t putting their own personal opinions and objectives into their creation, you’re dumber than I thought.

    NO ONE has EVER written, directed, produced, starred in, painted, carved, or just plain spoken something “just for the heck of it”. An ‘artist’ (for lack of a better term) creates their ‘art’ for the purposes of conveying a message…every single thing in that creation is, at least subconsciously, placed there from the ‘artists’ personal experiences, beliefs, or desires. It is impossible for an ‘artist’ to create a single thing that they don’t have any experience with.

    For example, if an artist thinks of religious people as irrational buffoons who get in the way of progress, any time they portray someone with religion, they will portray them as an irrational buffoon who gets in the way of progress, simply because they have not entertained the notion that religious people may not actually BE irrational buffoons who get in the way of progress.

    Good grief, that was easily one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever seen from you, DJ…and there are a lot I can choose from.

  32. Unregistered Comment by Beartrapper

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    Medved gave it 3.5 stars, that’s good enough for me.
    But I’m definately waiting for the DVD. Too far to town, and if I am going to town and spend that kind of money, it better be medium rare. Or better yet I can get something that produces that wonderful smell of burning powder…say a couple hundred rounds of 7.62.

  33. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    I don’t think he will tell us, Jaybear…but it’s cool just the same. He is the wizard of the keys, having access to ways denied souls such as I……and he does perform them well on our behalf.

  34. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Jaybear, my wife used to hate war movies, until she saw “In Harm’s Way.”

    Star Trek’s treatment of the Earp / Clanton problem was closer to the truth than “My Darling Clementine”…

  35. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    MoMonuteman

    I’m with ya there, Crunch… With my 32″ LCD H-D widescreen and surround sound theater sound system w/ subwoofer and recliner, why would I wanna fuck up a perfectly good movie experience by going out and having to deal with the wigga’s, sista’s and thugs, oh my…

    Ain’t it the truth Mo. The last time I went on a Friday night was for Flags of Our Fathers. Inside the theater it was mostly aduts, but even the teeny boppers in attendance were respectful.

    Now the lobby on the other hand, good lord where are these kids parents?! I caught myself ogling a hot 20 something with a tramp stamp and jeans to show it off only to realize she was at best 14 or 15. How in the hell does a parent let their kid go out dressed like that? And the boys, pure slacker punks every one of em.

    Thursday afternoon matinees for me, yessiree.

  36. hitnrun Comment by hitnrun

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    Which is funny, considering that our previous position, prior to all of the hysterical reactions from reviewers, was to merely rent it at some unspecified point in the future after it came out on DVD.

    Hear, hear, sire. My impression of the previews was that it was another shitty action movie, but the hysterical ranting about allegory and racsim means that it can’t be that bad. I’m now resolved to see it.

    Incidentally, who remembers the 101st Wool Sweaters Division’s reaction to the Lord of the Rings? That was truly a gem of reactionary twaddle. A trilogy written as a mythology for Britain was racist because there were no black people in it except those invading from faraway lands (sounds a lot like ancient Britain) and it was sexist because there was only one female character that could outfight male soldiers- two, tops.

  37. hitnrun Comment by hitnrun

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    Oops, Forgot to blockquote that first paragraph. ^

  38. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    I remember when ‘Alexander’ was released and all of the complaining that went on here. It’s a friggin’ movie! If you walk away from it feeling that you were entertained, then all is good, because that is all that was intended.

    But it wasn’t a GOOD movie, Deej.

    As the Geepers put it, “MY G-D, that was three hours of my life I canNOT get back…

  39. Alan K. Henderson Comment by Alan K. Henderson

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    Some people object to the way the Persians are portrayed:

    Note the ethnicity of the overwhelming majority of the signatories. DO NOT confuse these people with the Iranian mullahs and their apologists. Most of them are in the West because they’re running away from the theocracy. (Thus most of them consider Jimmy Carter an enemy for what he did to the Shah.)

    This film represents an art form that’s fairly new to human history, and possibly a first: taking a real-life event and creating a pure fantasy that really has nothing to do with (in this case) the real Spartans or the real Persians. It’s just like doing film adaptations that don’t stay true to the book. Most people expect historical films to be about history, and when such a film paints one side as demons, such get the impression that the film is intentionally badmouthing the historical figures that inspired the film. Agree to disagree with the signatories of the petition, and if you ever meet one invite him or her over to play with your Jimmy Carter dart board.

    Some people are mistaking the characters for real-life personages, but not who you might think::

    Three weeks ago a handful of reporters at an international press junket here for the Warner Brothers movie “300,” about the battle of Thermopylae some 2,500 years ago, cornered the director Zack Snyder with an unanticipated question.

    “Is George Bush Leonidas or Xerxes?” one of them asked.

    The questioner, by Mr. Snyder’s recollection, insisted that Mr. Bush was Xerxes, the Persian emperor who led his force against Greek’s city states in 480 B.C., unleashing an army on a small country guarded by fanatical guerilla fighters so he could finish a job his father had left undone. More likely, another reporter chimed in, Mr. Bush was Leonidas, the Spartan king who would defend freedom at any cost.

    Mr. Snyder, who said he intended neither analogy when he set out to adapt the graphic novel created by Frank Miller with Lynn Varley in 1998, suddenly knew he had the contemporary version of a water-cooler movie on his hands. And it has turned out to be one that could be construed as a thinly veiled polemic against the Bush administration, or be seen by others as slyly supporting it.

    Just because I feel like it, here’s a smiley I found on the Mark Levin forums:

    MOLON LABE!

  40. Dick Comment by Dick

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    I read somewhere that 300 is possibly the manliest movie ever made. Greatness considering Private Ryan.
    I so stole that phrase.

  41. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Dave, just out of curiosity, WTF IS that creature?

    That is the demon out of the old video game, Doom.

    If the movie is based on an historical event, then I kind of like them to be a little accurate in their telling.

    Moat “historical” movies are only based on actual events. For example, very little — if any — of the dialog in those movies ever took place. Secondly, the average movie is only 96 - 180 minutes long, and a lot of creative license has to take place to make a story fit in that space of time.

    Can a movie be totally acurate to historic events? To a certain extent, but sometimes the actual event can be really tiresome and boring if it were completely true to the facts.

    People go to movies to be entertained.

    We get the impression through the movies that the American West was nothing but gunfights and Indian wars. Gunfighters were legendly fast and accurate with their shots, and the battles with the Indians were epic. Reality was nothing of the sort. But we think they were because we’ve seen it on the silver screen, bigger than life.

    If you think a filmmaker or writer isn’t putting their own personal opinions and objectives into their creation, you’re dumber than I thought.

    But that’s the thing — its a creation. Look at anything by Oliver Stone. Yes, he took a real life character or event and embellished it. But he did so because he was telling a story based on those characters or events. And he made a buttload of money entertaining the audience.

    Movies are a spoof of reality. They are an escape. There is no sense in trying to expect anything more than that.

  42. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    Look at anything by Oliver Stone. Yes, he took a real life character or event and embellished it

    That’s putting it mildly. Ollie broke the bank with “artistic license”. (eg. Where the Buffalo Roam )

  43. Unregistered Pingback by Inoperable Terran » War porn

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    […] has some fun with the drive-bys’ screechily mincing reviews of 300. Posted by Ian S. […]

  44. BC, Imperial Torturer Comment by BC, Imperial Torturer

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    Usually, when critics say they give “two thumbs up” I usually have to wonder “up where?”

    :lol_wp: :lol_tb:

    Dave, every once in a while, you really do come up with some incredibly funny shi’ite, brother.

    Reading underlying agendas into it and looking for some convoluted hidden message means that you are thinking waaaay too hard.

    You said it. Now, can you pass that tidbit of information along to all of the bedwetting, handwringing “critics“?

    :smoke_tb:

  45. El Jeffmon Comment by El Jeffmon

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    Caveman, Jaybear-

    by the way, how do you animate your avatar?

    Looks like an ordinary animated .gif file…

    300 got thumbs up from Richard Roeper and guest Kim Morgan, for what it’s worth. I shouldn’t even know that.

  46. Chance Comment by Chance

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    killing and burning, and whiskers on kittens,
    sharp knives and fast cars, and warm winter mittens,
    beating down libtards, and drinking with friends,
    These are a few of my favorite things.

    *clapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclap*

    *first one that says anything about me giving LC Wil the clap is gonna get smacked upside the head…..

  47. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    this just in:

    BOXOFFICE BLOODBATH: ‘300′ BREAKS RECORD

  48. LC HOGHEAD Comment by LC HOGHEAD

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    Saw the movie Friday nite. ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY FUCKING FANTASTIC. It defines courage ,honor, valor, duty, and love of country to a tee.
    YOU MUST SEE THIS ONE !!!
    YOU MUST SEE THIS ONE !!!
    YOU MUST SEE THIS ONE !!!
    YOU MUST SEE THIS ONE !!!

  49. Kristopher Comment by Kristopher

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    LC The Humble Devildog:

    Since iron, and the proper use of, was the source of Sparta’s wealth, they used an appropriate method of exchange. Handing gold ANYTHING to a Spartan got a puzzled look in response from him.

    A Spartan would have handed the gold to a female relative, who would have used it to deal with the perioeci, non-spartan permanent residents who did everything the Helots were not trusted with, including commerce.

    Spartan women were able to do just about anything … Spartan law demanded that women be educated in order to make them competent to raise Spartan men. Many Spartan women owned very successful commercial businesses outside of Sparta, a situation that horrified other Greeks, which probably amused Spartan men.

  50. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    *first one that says anything about me giving LC Wil the clap is gonna get smacked upside the head…..

    Chance gave Wil the clap :lol_wp:
    **ducks**

  51. Unregistered Comment by Poopstain

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    LC–most of what you said is true but not everything. In fact, the Spartans WERE ruled by a council of old farts–the two kings had no authority except in war, so Sparta wasn’t really “ruled” by them. Also, the Persians DID have a Nubian contingent. Minor niggling– mostly enjoyed your interesting observations.

  52. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    …you guys!

    :doh_tb:

  53. Unregistered Comment by LC The Humble Devildog, Imperial Scholar

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    poopstain,

    Yes, the Spartans were ruled by a council. A council of warriors. Still, no politicians.

    I objected to the Athenian style city council, not a council in general.

    In effect, the council was a bunch of Spartan warriors who hadn’t yet figured out a way to die in battle, yet. You mean to tell me that they would have resorted to the petty infighting portrayed in the movie?

    In addition, the decision to go to Thermopylae would have been a ‘matter of war’, so, the kings (Sparta always had two of them at a time) would have made the decision.

    In reality, the Spartans honored the Carneai because they ALWAYS honored the Carneai! King Leonidas took off with 300 volunteers, to honor their commitment to the Athenians. The council promised to send the rest of the Spartan army after the Carneia was over. There was NEVER a question of whether or not Sparta was going to war. (Xerxes was throwing a war in Greece, and there was no way the Spartans weren’t going to show up, invited or not. Throwing a war in Greece without Spartans was like throwing a party without beer.) The only question was whether King Leonidas and the other Greeks could slow the Persian army down long enough to allow the Spartan army to finish the festival. The city council portrayed in the movie was an Athenian style city council, not a Spartan city council.

    Yes, I know there were Nubians present in the Persian army. But, the Nubians were a lot more like Egyptian warriors than the pierced freaks in the movie. In addition, Xerxes was more like an Iranian banker in appearance than the pierced Nubian freak the movie showed him as.

    I don’t mind the nit-picking at all. In fact, I rather enjoy it. Hard to complain about someone nit-picking me, when I nit-pick others, isn’t it?

    In order to give his myth of the battle the comic book treatment he wanted to give it, Frank Miller tried to make the villians even more villainous, and the heroes even more heroic. He succeeded on the first count, but…if he had just stuck to the history on the second count, the heroes would have been even more heroic. That’s hard to believe, but, it’s true.

    Oh, I should also point out that King Leonidas had only the least of roles in the starting of the war. It was the Athenian intervention in the Median revolt about 12 years before that started the war. Xerxes father invaded Greece to punish the Athenians for their participation in the revolt, and was defeated at Marathon. Xerxes was following his familial obligation in raising the second, MUCH larger army to punish Athens for both the intervention and subsequent defeat. The Spartans throwing the Persian emissary down the well was just the Spartans (highly predictable) response to someone threatening them with servitude.

    On an related side note, one of the reviewers (the one cited in the previous thread about this movie) complained “The Spartans threw the diplomat down the well, in violation of protocol!”. Um…so what? That was standard practice in those days. History is replete with kings, emperors, khans, leaders, and just plain ornery cusses treating diplomats and emissaries with disdain. It was standard practice that an emissary was considered to be an actual physical representation of the king sending the emissary. If you were going to inform the other king that his demands were an insult, what better way to convey your dislike of the insult than to take it out on the actual physical representation of the king at hand? One war (in the 1400s or so) was actually averted because the king sending the offended emissaries was so impressed with the creative tortures devised for the said offended emissaries! In earlier times, kings and rulers were faced with a plethora of useless sycophants. They found a use for them: diplomats. That way, if the diplomat was killed, tortured, abused, or all of the above, the ruler didn’t lose anyone important. Ah…the old days…

  54. LC Ranger 6 Comment by LC Ranger 6

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    Just saw this one and it is a really good movie. Although I am relatively certain that the Spartan politician who steps out of the shadows up on the mystic mountain and takes money from the Persian spy is intended to be ted kennedy. It just mirrors real life too closely. And when I said so in the theater I got quite the laugh out of the people around me. I almost forgot I was in Oregon.

  55. Unregistered Comment by manofaiki

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    Here is Kyle Smith’s review of 300 from the New York Post and my response to his asshattery:

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/03092007/entertainment/movies/persian_shrug_movies_kyle_smith.htm

    THE big-screen comic-book spectacular “300” gives extremism a bad name. Its Spartan king gets off on his own throbbing rage — call him Onan the Barbarian.

    As 300 doomed warriors of ancient Sparta march into the Battle of Thermopylae against hundreds of thousands of Persians, the movie version of the Frank Miller (“Sin City”) comic book becomes less a salute to the “Braveheart” school of right-wing action movies than a parody of them. Its philosophical underpinnings are not freedom and courage but Itchy and Scratchy.

    Sparta’s king, Leonidas (Gerard Butler of “Phantom of the Opera,” who sounds like he grew up in the Glasgow section of Sparta), is told by a messenger that Persia’s king, Xerxes, demands tribute — a token gift. There’s no shame in diplomacy, but Leonidas goes berserk because he heard that the Athenians, those “philosophers and boylovers,” didn’t pay. Then he punts the messenger down a well.

    That well is a primeval chasm, and the scene carries a terrible splendor. But Leonidas has just thrown himself down a moral well. The messenger’s warning that no one kills the mailboy is absolutely right. Leonidas, though, is just getting started; he bellows about honor as he begins a decathalon of dishonor. Rampaging in his leather Speedo, he murders wounded enemies, desecrates their remains, insults allies and confuses death with glory. His troops are like al Qaeda in adult diapers.

    The crack about boy-love becomes central when we meet Xerxes: He’s modeling the latest in earrings, dog collars, lipstick and eyeliner, like an 8-foot RuPaul. It’s hard to escape the idea that Leonidas is a king who just doesn’t like queens.

    Leo frames his struggle as a war against barbarism, but his is a “culture” that puts babies to the sword for looking like weaklings. He ignores both religious counsel - a half-naked oracle chick who delivers her messages via writhing performance art - and Spartan law, seemingly because he views death as a promotion.

    Even the softer voice of Leo’s wife (Lena Headey) tells him not, “Pick up a gallon of milk on your way back” but “Come back with your shield or on it.” Like “no prisoners,” which also pops up here, this is a familiar battle cry that makes no sense unless violence is war’s goal rather than its means.

    So our “hero” is a psycho, which puts a hollow at the center of the story. But can’t we just ignore the politics and enjoy the decapitations?

    To a degree, yes. The awesomely stylized look - every tendon quivers in the breeze as necks celebrate their liberation from heads - is a new blueprint for comic-book films. Rather than trying to make the fake look real, as in “Ghost Rider,” “300″ makes a real battle look fake: Every frame calls attention to the artistry with which it was drawn, and the violence is so designed and polished that it isn’t disgusting.

    The movie literalizes, to terrific effect, many legendary lines: When the Persians say their arrows will blot out the sun, the Spartans vow to fight in the shade. And so they do, as the foot soldiers of CGI technology blast the screen with their giddiest, gaudiest effects. Sensory gluttony is reason enough to see a movie, and few epics overstuff the eyes like this one.

    But keeping in mind Slate’s Mickey Kaus’ Hitler Rule - never compare anything to Hitler - it isn’t a stretch to imagine Adolf’s boys at a “300″ screening, heil-fiving each other throughout and then lining up to see it again.

    end

    ok, here’s what I emailed him after i read that:

    First of all, I scarely know where to begin.

    The Messenger from Xerxes isn’t there to practice DIPLOMACY.
    Did you see the same movie I saw?

    The guy comes with his armed escort, and introduced himself by waving around a rope with a bunch of skulls tied to it. Not a very diplomatic move, eh?

    Which means, unless you’re not clever enough to figure it out, his message is, do what ever the one who sent me demands of you, or end up with your head as my latest accesory.

    The Messenger has come to receive Sparta’s surrender or to announce it’s forthcoming doom. There is no ‘token gift’. Giving this guy what he wanted was to surrender to Xerxes and make him the new ruler of Sparta, plain and simple. What’s diplomatic about that?
    This guy isn’t on a diplomatic mission. He’s here to receive Sparta’s surrender.

    This ‘messenger’s message is ‘Surrender now or else.’

    He even threatens Leonidas when he sees which way the conversation is going “Think carefully about what you say next!” or something along those lines.

    Here’s what you missed: Sparta was never going to surrender. From the moment this messenger showed up, war was inevitable. Leonidas’ answer was ‘no’ and if he decided to buy himself a few more days to get ready by leaving Xerxes vainly waiting for his ’surrender or else’ messenger boy to come home with the bad news, that was just……too bad.

    Free city states threatned by an enemy who vastly outnumbers them and is coming just over the horizion just might have to do things like kill wounded enemies and engage in psychological warfare with corpses and other things that strike detached observers as cruel, unjust and psychotic.

    Death as a promotion? These Spartans are fighting not from a death wish but from a freedom wish. They have essentially been placed in a situation where they are being told to give up their freedom to a foreign invader or die.

    Leave it to a ’sophisticated’ reviewer to miss the main point of the film: one army, small as it is, is full of volunteers who come from free city states that don’t want to give up their freedom to the invader who has come and demanded it from them.

    The other is a huge army made up of slaves of subjugated nations fighting to enslave others.

    You attempt to get around this by dodging, bringing the aspects of Spartan culture that today seem barbaric, so as to make the two sides morally equivalent; barbarians fighting barbarians. So Spartan culture wasn’t perfect. But it was THEIR culture. And they were being told to hand it over. They decided not to.

    One of the other points of the film is that it takes a warrior who values what freedom does exist in his culture to save it when the politicians can’t get on the same page about what to do about the looming threat on the horizon that’s about to destroy the entire culture.

    For Leonidas to have acceded to ‘Spartan Law’ and sent the messenger back with the water and earth (thereby giving you the ‘diplomacy you seem to crave) would have been to end Spartan Law itself.

    Spartan Law would have been superceded by Persian Law, just as the Spartan King would now be a flunky of the Persian king. Spartan Law is now whatever that Persian guy across the Hellespont says it is.

    Now a multiculturalist who doesn’t believe one culture is really better than another might have a hard time grasping why ol’ Leo might be a bit miffed as he contemplates surrendering everything about his country that he loves to a foreign invader who has basically demanded serve me or else.

    Maybe the giving up of Spartan self-determination and law and culture would strike some Spartans as a low-risk thing to do to escape a bad situation but there were others to whom that sort of idea is rejected without any sort of negotiation. You COMPLETELY miss this.

    What is there to ‘negotiate’ if the other side’s opening position is ‘You can hand it all over willingly or we’re coming to take it’? OK, sit down at the table and start negotiating with them. What’s your first negotiating point once you’ve seen their starting position?
    I’d have kicked that arrogant bastard down a well too.

    I note also you can’t even resist taking a crack as the scene where Leonida’s wife bids hims what she knows is their final farewell. It was common for a Spartan woman to tell her husband or son, “Come back with your shield, or on it.”

    That means whether you come back alive or dead, come back with your honor intact.

    See, the only way the Spartan phanlax worked was if every man held the line of shields together and never dropped his shield, no matter how bad the fighting got.

    For a man to become fearful and drop his shield would be to provide an opening to the enemy as they rushed into the gap.

    Even if wounded, even if seeing he would die if he stayed there, Spartan men were conditioned to hold the line and keep their shield’s locked together. To drop one’s shield and abandon it in that situation was to lose all honor and if one survived the battle, lifelong disgrace.

    I believe you totally missed the point of the scene, instead stating about how it seems even Leonida’s wife is encouraging him to act dishonorably. She understands what he’s fighting for, and why she’s never going to see him alive again, even if you don’t.

    Violence is not the goal of war, and it isn’t the goal of either ‘Come back with your shield or on it” or of ‘No Prisoners.”

    As an aside, any military man with training can tell you why small units don’t take prisoners on battlefields in which they are outnumbered. Because if you take prisoners, you are then responsible for treating their wounds, feeding them and setting up guards over them, manpower and resources that you just don’t have.

    So most small units simply either disarm potential prisoners and turn them loose or kill them. The Spartans, vastly outnumbered and with scant resources, had no means of taking prisoners even had they wanted to. In the scene in which they are shown dispatching wounded enemies, it was a common practice to end the life of a wounded enemy on the battlefield; if they couldn’t hold healthy prisoners that surrendered without a scratch, even less could they hold grieviously wounded enemies who would need care and food. The alternative was to leave a wounded enemy lying there suffering for hours, perhaps even days.

    The result of this viewpoint of yours in the end is that you call the hero at the center of the story a ‘psycho’ and for this reason the entire film is a stupid exercise in dishonorable butchery.

    You end your reveiw by calling it a perfect film for Nazis, who no doubt would have had their hearts set aflutter by watching a film about a small army from free states resist a tyranny that invaded their country and demanded they submit.

    Heroic resistance to a tyrant that has come and invaded your country and demanded you submit to him then becomes a psychosis to be pitied rather than admired.

    Spartan culture may not have been perfect. Self-determination and freedom within it could have been greater. But it was Spartan culture. And what ever amount of it there was, it was Spartan self-determination. They were faced with the choice of giving up both or fighting for it. They chose to fight for it.

    War is terrible and it causes otherwise good people to find themselves in situations where they have to make hard choices. Surrendering is always easier, cleaner, less messy, more humane and then you don’t have any more hard choices to make anyway. You simply do what you’re told.

    One reason the film is good is that it doesn’t sugar coat the kind of hard choices you would have to make if you chose not to surrender.

    I would encourage you to see the film again and imagine what the world would look like to day if Leonidas had decided on diplomacy and given that messenger what he ‘asked’ for.

  56. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    by the way, how do you animate your avatar?

    If your graphic is less than 60×60 pixels, then it should stay animated. If it is larger than that, the program will resize the graphic and you wind up losing the animation.

    I cheat. I can upload the graphic and bypass the plugin.

  57. LC Ranger 6 Comment by LC Ranger 6

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    I cheat. I can upload the graphic and bypass the plugin.

    Just like a liberal. Self gratification without the effort.

  58. Unregistered Comment by MurdockTheCrazy

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    LC The Humble Devildog says:

    Okay, I’ve now seen it.

    As I haven’t yet seen it, please forgive any misunderstanding on my part of what you say.

    The historical aspects of it would have to enhanced to get UP to “historically inaccurate”.

    Among the anachronistic and/or blatantly non-historical things are:

    An Athenian city council in Sparta. There weren’t any politicians in Sparta. It was ruled by two kings, both of whom were warriors.

    Sorry… Incorrect. Sparta had its Ephors, five men who had considerably more social power than the kings.

    These men were elected anually. At the end of their term each year, they were taken before the assembly of Spartiates and made to answer for their decisions during the year.

    Also, there was the gerousia, the high military council, consisting of twenty-right elderly men retired from service in the Spartan army (at least in theory… Many may have continued service anyway). These men were elected for life (which was ususaly a short term… Folks didn’t live all that long as a general rule) The kings were the leaders of the gerousia.

    While the details of the Spartan politcal climate can often be unclear, it seems probable that the Ephorate was in charge of domestic affairs (newborn trials, keeping the helots in line, et al) while the gerousia handled foreign (mostly military) afairs. There was obviously considerable overlap between the two, however.

    There were several other political bodies in Sparta… I could go into a lot more detail, but I’m too busy today… Later in the week maybe.

    In addition, EVERY Spartan male was raised to be a warrior. End of subject. Anything non-warrior was done by slaves.

    Not exactly. Many Spartan youths failed their military training. These men lost their chacne at being Spartiates, and thus lost all political rights. However they remained in Sparta as ‘inferiors’.. A far worse position to be in than even perioeci, as while the perioeci might have fewer rights and freedoms, he was not looked down upon like an inferior would be.

    An inferiors children suffered mixed fates… If, by some miracle, the inferior managed to marry an actual full-Spartan woman (the child of a Spartiate), then his children would probably be sponsored into the Agoge (Spartan military training for boys) by her father.

    If an inferior married a perioeci woman, his children would be perioeci, unless sponsored by a Spartiate (unlikely).

    And if he married a helot (the most likely outcome), his children would be helots.

    It’s a sort of social Darwinism. The idiots end up at the bottom of the totem pole, the strong and smart end up as the nations leaders.

    One of the reasons Sparta was so militaristic was the slaves outnumbered the Spartans by about…oh…100 to 1.

    Try 25 to one, in a Helot males vs Spartiate males comparison. Throw the Perioeci in and it becomes about 30 to one.

    Perioeci, however, were not slaves. They were free men, and they conducted almost all the trade and advanced goodsmaking in Sparta. They lived often in much greater luxury than a Spartiate ever would. They did, however, lack any real political rights. They were a non-factor in state decisions.

    And the Helots weren’t exactly slaves as we think of the term either. They lived in their own communities, usually free from Spartan interference except in collection of their food quotas and any problems resulting from possible insurrection.

    They owned their own personal property (they could not own land or weapons, however), had their own social order and generally lived their lives on their own. They were forced to live on Spartan farms owned by Spartiates, and required to provide a set quota of food from said land. Any extra food was generally theirs to do with as they pleased. The Spartans food quota was not harsh except in the last few decades of the nation, so the Helots almost always had more than enough food. They usually ate better than Spartan boys.

    Life as a helot had its disadvantages, however. The Spartans were alway worried about insurrection from their numarically superior serf class, and as a result the Krypteia, a shadowy group of Spartiates, was commisioned by the Ephors to keep the Helots in line. They would hunt down helots suspected of rebellious actions and sympathies in the dead of night and kill them with daggers.

    It is likely that many claims about the Krypteia are exaggerated, as many claims seem self contradicting. But we know this: The Krypteia was almost always on the hunt, it killed without warning and without witnesses, and it often left a great many dead.

    [quote]The Oracle was at Delphi, not Sparta.[/quote]

    Correct.

    The Spartans were slaves to “the old ways”…they left the “age of reason and logic” crap to the Athenians.

    Yup.

    Spartan women didn’t throw hissy-fits when their sons were sent off to their ‘graduation exercise’. They hadn’t had custody of their sons for over 10 years by the time the Spartan was sent out into the wild with nothing but his cloak. In addition, it was a 300+ year old tradition. By that time, the mothers were used to it.

    One time, a Spartan mother waited outside her home while three of her sons were fighting a battle.

    When a messenger passed by who had just returned from the battle, she asked him, “Of the battle, has our side been victorious?”

    He said “I am sorry, but all three of your sons have fallen in the battle.”

    She replied “You foolish man, I did not ask of them, I asked; has our city been victorious?”

    He said “Yes, we carried the day.”

    The mother said “Then I am happy” any went into her home.

    (paraphrasing by memory from the sayings of Spartan women, I’ll let someone else look up the exact story).

    The phalanx used by the Spartans wasn’t much of a phalanx. It was a collection of actors pretending to be in a phalanx.

    Haven’t seen the movie yet, but I’d expect that.

    Everything about the Persian army is just…wrong. The Immortals were archers, not Sith Lord ninjas. No rhinos, no elephants, and no Nubian freaks.

    I noticed this in the previews… The Immortals did not dress like flippin’ Stormtroopers… wtf is with that?

    Bribing Spartans with gold was…less than useless. Spartans didn’t use gold as a means of commerce. The entire Spartan economy was based upon the source of Sparta’s strength: the mass amounts of iron weapons they produced. Spartan money was made of iron. They left the slavish devotion to petty baubles to the Athenians. Since iron, and the proper use of, was the source of Sparta’s wealth, they used an appropriate method of exchange. Handing gold ANYTHING to a Spartan got a puzzled look in response from him.

    While you are generally correct here, the fact is the Spartans did have a use for gold… It was used extensively in their medical kits to threat wounded (makes a decent artery-tie of sorts, among other things). Also, a Spartiate usually kept a small stash of gold coins in his field kit, in case he might need to barter with people elsewhere in Hellas, since Sparta was the only citystate not gold-obessed.

    The Spartans weren’t fighting for a “new age of reason”. “Reason” is STILL most often used to justify breaking codes of honor, shirking one’s duty, and profaning the holy. Spartans were fighting for duty. They were fighting because Xerxes was throwing a fight, and the Spartans crashed the party. Spartans fought where the fight was. The Spartans left the “new age of reason and logic” crap to the Athenians.

    Yup.

    Most glaring error is that the Spartans fought in armor made of iron. No armor to be seen on the Spartans in the movie.

    Are you sure their armor was Iron? I was pretty sure they still used bronze for their helmets, sheilds and breastplates, at least… Bronze tends to make better armor actually, at least against the weapons of 480BCE.

    I could go on for days about the historical errors, but, that’s not why I went to see it. I went to see the movie to see the greatest warriors the Earth has ever known (and, yes, I include the Samurai in my assessment. They were amateurs compared to the Spartans.) kick some ass. And the movie delivers. Not nearly as often as you’d think, based on all the sniveling about how violent it is, but…it delivers.

    The warriors of classical Asia were always jokes. It’s downright silly how people seem to think the Ninja and Samurai were somehow war-gods. The simple fact is that every time a European military force met an Asian one, the Europeans made a mockery of Asian weapons and tactics.

    Greece would have chewed up and spit out both China and Japan, if the two had actually been near enough to go to war.

    (and no, don’t start that silly “but the Katana is the ultimate fighting weapone EVAR!2!!!1!1!1one!!!” bullshit. Katana is crap, a good Xiphos is a match for it… A medevil broadsword will make a mockery of it)

    If it isn’t contained in a battle scene or explanation of the Spartan existence, it’s probably historically wrong. Go see it anyway. And then, actually do some research on the Spartans, to fully grasp the significance of their stand at Thermopylae. The truth of what they did is more heroic than the comic book treatment of a myth about what they did. This movie is good training wheels for someone wanting to know what devotion to honor and duty REALLY looks like.

    I suggest Plutarch on Sparta (a collection of Plutarch’s Lives and Sayings about Spartans) and Gates of Fire as a good baptism into the order of the scarlet cloak.

  59. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    The libs must be considering a coronary…I greatly enjoyed the link. Then again, they didn’t like ThePassion of the Christ either, all six hundred million of it globally.
    http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/r-rated-300-makes-huge-numbers-25-mil-friday-for-expected-60-mil-wkd/

  60. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Ranger

    Just like a liberal. Self gratification without the effort.

    What, is that like a welfare masturbation program or somethin’?

  61. BC, Imperial Torturer Comment by BC, Imperial Torturer

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    manofakai, SPOT-FUCKIN-ON!!!

    :clap_tb: :undecided_tb: :thumbup_tb: :smoke_tb:

  62. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    WHOOOAAAA,
    just got back from seeing it….what a hell of a ride that was…..

    The only thing that I thought might be a turn off was the graphic novel style of film-making that is so popular and repetitive today…you know, the slow motion -switch to-fast motion fight scenes, the not possibly human aerials and jumps that the warriors do, and the black clouds of arrows. Seen it all before, am tired of it……but DAMN, was it used to good effect in this flick. Very impressive overall, and did anyone stay for the ending credits? Those were JUST as cool.

    My favorite line in the movie was when Leonidas’ captain is rallying his troops for battle. He says: “Today we free the world from mysticism and tyranny”

    Dang, I didn’t see it as an Anti-Bush, Anti-War movie. With lines like the above, It could be a great movie to stir up the home front AND our modern Spartans……maybe that’s why the leftie/marxists are so bent about it, they’re trying to derail it’s potential to do just that!!…. :lol_tb:

    I’ll see it again, maybe tomorrow

  63. Tom The Impaler Comment by Tom The Impaler

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    I find its historical inaccuracies annoying as hell

    Are you suggesting, Murdock, that Xerxes might not have had a ten foot tall mutant refugee from Duke Nukem with arms mutilated and replaced by axe/sword thingies?

    Also, am I the first to notice that a brief comparison to their previous effort “Sin City” reveals that the world of pimps, whores, hoods, and hitmen contains far less nudity and softcore pRon than the world of the famously austere Spartans?

  64. Unregistered Comment by LC Wes, Imperial Mohel

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    I too just got back from seeing “300,” and found it to be a hell of a lot of fun. Yes, it’s much more a fantasy than any sort of serious historical treatment of Thermopylae, but so what? (If you’re looking for a more serious/historical fictional look at the Three Hundred, I’m currently reading Steven Pressfield’s Gates of Fire; I’m five chapters in and it’s excellent.)

    Actually, the fantasy elements and over-the-top action in the film seems to me how a Greek storyteller of Leonidas’ time would tell the tale of the Three Hundred, were he to have access to a Hollywood film studio and a multimillion-dollar CGI budget instead of quill pens and parchment. The visuals and the atmosphere of the movie are so awesome that you’ve just got to see it in a theater for the full effect.

    And no, I didn’t see anything overtly political in the movie, unless (as so many reviewers, like the airhead at Slate profiled in Misha’s previous post on “300″) you think that the notion that there are things worth fighting and dying for without playing moral relevance games is itself a “conservative” notion. Although you could certainly draw a parallel between “300’s” Persian god-king Xerxes and the messianic Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmendinajad of the present day.

    And it’s not hard to imagine that the treacherous weasel who sells out Sparta to the Persians, tries to block aid to Leonidas’ embattled troops and attacks Leonidas’ wife in the film is a Democrat.

  65. Chance Comment by Chance

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    *still patiently waiting for Crunchie to let his guard down so’s I can whap him one*

    I was pretty sure they still used bronze for their helmets, sheilds and breastplates, at least…

    Murdock, your right, they did use bronze, and brass as well, I’ve read.

    The Persians on the other hand, used woven wicker.

  66. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    *still patiently waiting for Crunchie to let his guard down so’s I can whap him one*

    Keep waiting Chance, hope yer a patient one. I learned along time ago to keep my guard up, personal risk avoidance policy of mine ya know. Especially when one is prone to making smart ass comments, even more so to someone with an avatar of a prairie dog with a rocket launcher. Thats just classic. :lol1_wp: :thumbup_tb:

  67. Unregistered Comment by LC The Humble Devildog, Imperial Scholar

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    Murdock,

    See the movie, and then, tell me if how close *I* got to what Sparta really was like is closer than what the movie shows.

    Yeah, Sparta had a council. IT DID NOT HAVE AN ATHENIAN STYLE CITY COUNCIL! The Ephors were NOT inbred caretakers of the Oracle. They were elected Spartan citizens…which means they were Spartan soldiers. Once again, the political infighting shown in the movie would NOT have been present, since it would have been impossible. The Council would have been relatively unanimous in most of its decisions, simply because most of the Ephors had a common background (soldier) to base their decisions. There would have been relatively minor differences in their ideas on how to run things. They’d be able to agree on what the problems were, they’d just have disagreements on how to solve. There NEVER would have been a fight over sending troops against Persia! (Nor was there, in reality. The council was unanimous on that decision. They were going to send the army…after the Carnaie was over.)

    About the iron…

    Lykurgos the Law Giver mandated that Spartan money would be made of iron, since iron was the source of Sparta’s strength. That leads me to believe that Spartan weapons were made of either iron or a primitive steel (steel is just iron with most impurities burned out). Armor? That I can’t speak of. If Sparta had a primitive steel, then, their armor would have been of steel. If they didn’t, then, yeah, you’re right. They would have been bronze. Either way, 300 years before Thermopylae, the Spartan economy was changed so that iron was the medium of exchange, because iron was the source of Sparta’s strength. Iron, at that time, was only useful to a warrior society in either weapons or armor, or both.

    The Samurai’s biggest weakness was their refusal to adapt. In a one-on-one fight, the Samurai were some of the most dangerous warriors on the planet. BUT, they never really got past that tactic. Heck, even the fwench had figured that one out by about the time Sekigahara occurred. What made the Spartans the greatest warriors in history was their absolute devotion to mastering ALL of the military arts: stealth, deception, grappling, sword fighting, formation fighting…Spartan armies weren’t deadly just because of their soldiers. They were deadly because of their generals and their tactics. Spartans were known for their sneak attacks, their feints, their feigned retreats (similar to what Hannibal pulled at Cannae), their infiltrations…the Spartans were the Complete Package in infantry tactics. They didn’t use skirmishers very often, simply because they didn’t need to. They didn’t use cavalry often, because Greek terrain usually wouldn’t allow it. One on one, or army on army, the Spartans could defeat any pre-gunpowder soldier 90%+ of the time.

    Spartans only used gold because other Greeks did. To a Spartan, it was a useless petty bauble. It had no value in Sparta. Spartans were legendary for the difficulty in bribing them simply because they had no real use for more than what they currently had. Gold, silver, gems…only held meaning to a Spartan for what he could use them to purchase from a non-Spartan.

  68. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Just like a liberal. Self gratification without the effort.

    No, just ability, that’s all.

    As far as the effort goes, it is far easier to simply upload a graphic through the plugin than it is bypassing it. I didn’t mention several additional steps I have to make in order for me to get it to work properly.

  69. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    MurdockTheCrazy

    Gates of Fire

    Thank you for that. I have been trying to remember the name of that book for the last two months… Need to find it and re-read it.

  70. Deathknyte Comment by Deathknyte

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    Saw it last Friday, in a word… DAMN!

    Yeah, I was impressed.

  71. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    Iran lashes out at ‘300′ for insulting Persian civilization…

  72. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    Iran lashes out at ‘300′ for insulting Persian civilization…

    I was wondering how long that was gonna take…

  73. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    probably would have been sooner, Guido, but for the time difference

  74. Unregistered Pingback by Grouchy’s Liberaltopia™ » It’s Not The 300 Spartans! It’s The 30,000 Empty Trojans!

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    […] Muttya loves that comic book movie: The 300! […]