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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » A Rifleman’s Lament
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For some obscure reason, His Imperial Majesty will most likely be needing large amounts of yummy 7.62×51 NATO rounds afore long.

Fortunately, it’s real easy finding truckloads of mil-surp, affordable ammunition for such a widely used caliber, right? Well, that’s what we’ve always been told, but after quite a bit of Googling around, it seems that it’s about the rarest round on the planet and, when we DID manage to find some, it was priced at a level that makes shooting a Desert Eagle look cheap, and we don’t particularly feel like being ripped off by some con artist trying to pass off plain old military 7.62×51 as either expensive or rare.

So where has all the cheap ammo gone?

Does anybody know?

80 Responses to “A Rifleman’s Lament”
  1. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Sire, I thought I knew most ’rounds,, not 7.62 x 54?
    Them’s cheap n everywhere.

  2. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    54??? What am I, a flipping Commie? :blink_tb:

  3. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    YOU? RED?
    HAY-YALL NO!
    ‘Just never seen a x51, obviously beyond my technology.
    Took my little stroll through the normal southern suppliers, no luck in 51.
    So I googled, and find we’re lookin’ for 308’s.
    Ouch, new brain wrinkle.
    So, Here’s a deal in Federal, the roll-out above might have some other suppliers.

  4. juandos Comment by juandos

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    The people of Brazoria, Texas after reading about the town of Fago are buying up all the ammo they can get their hands on due to the idiot wigger of a mayor they have…

    There go the street repairs and street light replacements, all the town funds are tied up in legal costs…

  5. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

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    Did a quick search and found this:

    originally created by the U.S. Army to replace the 30-06, the .308 Winchester (7.62×51 in military form) ranks among the most versatile and popular centerfire cartridges in the world.

    Seems to be just a case of whether you go by gov’t nomenclature or what we’ve been calling it for the last hundred years.

  6. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    ‘Just never seen a x51, obviously beyond my technology.
    ‘Took my little stroll through the normal southern suppliers, no luck in 51.
    So I googled, and find we’re lookin’ for 308’s.
    Ouch, new brain wrinkle.

    Ah. Sorry. My bad. I guess when you grow up firing the stuff all over the landscape, it’s hard to get used to a new name for it, so I just went with what I used to call it.

    The Indian stuff looks reasonably priced, by the way. And, of course, the Wolf stuff is out of stock. Figures.

  7. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    More choices, from the sportsman’s guide.

    The Armory has some ten bucks a box, looks like federals.

    Yeah, just search with 308 first in the syntax, then the 7.62×51
    and the woods come alive with them.
    I’ll try to remember the x51 nomenclature, but if someone asks if I’d reload some oh-ates special for ‘em, yeah, I gotta sizer and die for them rounds.

  8. juandos Comment by juandos

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    So where has all the cheap ammo gone?

    Define cheap…

    http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/ammo-for-rifles/308-win-7-62×51-nato-/cPath/12_43308

    Win (7.62×51 NATO)

    Displaying 1 to 3 (of 3 products) Result Pages: 1
    Model Product Name+ Price
    5-270 308 American Eagle AE308D 150gr FMJ Boat-Tail, 20 rd boxes. $11.54 - $12.95
    5-1368 308 Surplus Indian, 147gr FMJ on clips in bandoleers, 400 rds in can. $103.96 - $111.96
    5-1298 308 WOLF 150gr FMJ, 20rd boxes. (Backordered) $5.40 - $5.95

  9. maxxdog Comment by maxxdog

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    Try buying .30 carbine cheap. Not happening!

  10. Unregistered Comment by jbuist

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    .308 and 7.62×51mm are not the same.

    Do NOT fire .308 in a 7.62×51mm weapon. Commercial .308 ammo is rated for a higher pressure( 67,500psi) than military 7.62×51mm (50,000psi).

    Oh, and don’t put any Indian ammo in a gun you’d actually like to shoot. The bullets aren’t seated correctly often enough and I remember somebody actually checking the powder charges and found that they were all over the place.

  11. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    WATCH OUT for the cheapest offers.
    If your rod ain’t nuthin’ but a toy, go ahead on,
    But if you’ve got something that MUST be perforated, and you want your bore to be gleaming and happy in the borelight for years to come, make sure they don’t slip them corrosive primers on you.
    Misha, do you tinker with your loads, or just buy ‘em?

  12. JJSoCal Comment by JJSoCal

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    This happens to be an area of specialty for me. I have found SA for as little as 28.5 cents a round. That’s pretty good for mil surplus, compared to the Indian stuff at 24.9 cents and 1970’s manufacture. I don’t feed any of my rifles Wolf; I respect my rifles too much. :tongue1_tb:

  13. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    I have found SA for as little as 28.5 cents a round.

    Where, oh where?

    Misha, do you tinker with your loads, or just buy ‘em?

    Nope. I just buy ‘em, then send ‘em downrange.

    As to how “nice” the ammo is, it really doesn’t matter. German-designed real rifles don’t give a shit. It’s those metrosexual, hypersensitive other rifles that do, getting the flippin’ vapors if the manufacturer forgot to spray the correct eau de cologne on the casings before seating the bullets.

  14. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

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    Silly me (us), I went to the Imperial Firearms Advisor and found this: Springfield M1A (7.62×51mm NATO).

    If you are the lucky bastards to get one of these, well, I’ve just committed 2 sins, lust and envy.

  15. JJSoCal Comment by JJSoCal

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    I don’t know how to post a link, but go to rifle-company.com and look for the ‘ammo dump’ forum, there’s a sticky at the top for 7.62 ammo.

    There are several listings for lowest price 7.62 NATO. Another great resource for ammo info and pricing is AR15.com, those guys are great.

  16. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Hey, Bossman!

    Try Ammoman.com. That’s where I get my cheep stuff.

    They got a couple of deals on .308..

    How’s $199 for 500 rounds of Lake City MilSup sound?

    BTW, stay away from that “Talon” tracer. I don’t know why, maybe they have crappy powder, but eveytime I shoot anything they make, I have pure hell getting the barrel clean.

  17. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Just because I’m a nosy old bastich, what ya shooting it thru?

  18. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Yeah, Are you shooting a semi’?

  19. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

    Click the .308/7.62×51 button at the top of the page.

    Before you freak at the prices, DO keep in mind that they INCLUDE shipping. And ammo comes under the heading of “heavy, extra shipping” just about everywhere.

    Now, just a note on Wolf. One of our customers is currently conducting a test of Wolf vs Winchester. At 7500 rounds through each of two identical rifles, (they are Bushmasters with consecutive serial numbers and identical builds), his borescope is showing essentially identical bore conditions for both ammunition types.

    He is firing the rifles an identical number of rounds between cleanings, and is firing them in as identical a manner as humnaly possible. (eg, first five magazines at 2 seconds per round, next five mags at 4 seconds per round, fifteen seconds for mag change, bolt held open during mag change, rifle horizontal on sandbag, chamber first round of magazine and wait twenty seconds before resuming fire.)

    He does the shooting on alternate weekends, 500 rounds each trip. Cleans rifles every 1000 rounds at this point. He is using polymer Wolf, not the laquer stuff.

    I just wish *I* had his ammo budget… He has 20,000 rounds of each cartridge to go through…

  20. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    How’s $199 for 500 rounds of Lake City MilSup sound?

    Sounds quite reasonable, if you ask me. Not “OMG! What a DEAL!” reasonable, but definitely not unfair either. Now, if only that particular item was in STOCK, but I’ll be checking in later.

    Just because I’m a nosy old bastich, what ya shooting it thru?

    After much agonizing, I finally decided that I’ll be shooting it through one of those:

    A dozen years of lugging one of those around and loving it like crazy just will not be denied. What? You didn’t know I was a sentimental bastard?

    Of course, the fact that you can run it over with a tank with little if any ill effects to its functionality and the fact that anything it hits drops and stays dropped (and it makes “concealment” out of “cover”) had a bit to do with it too.

  21. JJSoCal Comment by JJSoCal

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    I know what Misha’s feeding 7.62 x 51; I wish i had one. :dry_tb: I might still get me one.

    I thought the Talon’s were fouling up the barrels ’cause of the phosphorous on the tip.

  22. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    ooOOOOOOOOooooooohhhhhhh!
    :ohh_ee: :clap_tb: :biggrin_wp:

    If I may suggest another alternative, mayhaps start getting into reloading?

  23. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    I thought the Talon’s were fouling up the barrels ’cause of the phosphorous on the tip.

    If it were just their tracers doing it, I might agree, but everydamnthing I shoot of theirs does that, from reman 9mm up .50 BMG.

    Trust me, you really don’t want to have to scrub a .50.

  24. JJSoCal Comment by JJSoCal

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    I wonder if Talon recently switched to a slower burning powder?

  25. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    G that’s a nasty finger of fate there. ;p~~~
    If you have a solid cbinet and 8 square feet of space check Dillon.
    Ease into the science at your own speed.

  26. Unregistered Comment by 1inchgroup

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    Links for nearly everything under the sun that shoots.

    My pleasure, Emperor.

    http://www.ridersforjustice.com/Other%20Links/firearm_links.html

  27. ozzman002 Comment by ozzman002

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    http://www.ammunitionstore.com/
    $99 for 400 rounds..WOW glad I have 4k in storage…It’s gotten pricy!

  28. LC HOGHEAD Comment by LC HOGHEAD

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    I bought a thousand wolf rounds a couple years ago. Went back to gun shop this fall to find price had TRIPPLED !!!

  29. Unregistered Comment by 230Gr JHP

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    J&G usually has a good stock w/ few backorders.Luckily I have a safe devoted to ammo and it is well stocked!! Happy Hunting!

    http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/ammo-for-rifles/7-62×54r/cPath/12_42

  30. juandos Comment by juandos

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    Links for nearly everything under the sun that shoots.

    Damn fine site 1 inch

    I’ve been, “window shopping” like crazy…

    Thanks for the link…

  31. Unregistered Comment by LC Rey

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    Try these:
    http://cheaperthandirt.com/AMM692-3249-124.html

  32. Unregistered Comment by LC Rey

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    Oooops Out of stock

  33. Unregistered Comment by lobo

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    Folks, get used to the idea: TONS and TONS of 7.62×39, .308 and .223 ammo are being being bought up by dealers in the Middle East. I dunno why …

    They are creating a WORLDWIDE shortage.

  34. Unregistered Comment by irish19

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    SoCalOilMan: I got one of those and I just love it. I also have a DPMS Hi-Pro in .223, an FN, and a Garand (which keeps throwing op rods for reasons which escape me). I had some of the Indian, and had only a couple of problem rounds. The accuracy wasn’t what I wanted, but they were Boxer primed so I saved as many cases as I could find. The SA is excellent. However, it is Berdan primed so no reloading.
    BTW, if you have the dough and the space, I also second the motion for a Dillon. Mine gets regular work, and has had pretty much no issues that weren’t my fault. Another good choice might be the Lyman T-Mag. I use that one for hunting rounds. Frugal Squirrel used to have a CD with the loading specs for all military ammo. I had one, but it seems to have gone bad. Reloading is fun, relaxing, can save scads of money, and lets you stockpile all the ammo you want w/o having to let anyone know you’re stockpiling ammo.

  35. Unregistered Comment by oseaghdha

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    Roll yer own.
    You can bang(ha!)out 3-400 rounds per hour, and you know what you are getting.
    When I was shooting competition bulleye, it was the only way I could afford to feed my .45ACP habit.
    Of course, you have to lower yourself to being a Brass Chikin! But that’s what kids are for, right?

  36. Dick Comment by Dick

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    Cheaper Than Dirt off 820 in Fort Worth.

  37. Tom The Impaler Comment by Tom The Impaler

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    TONS and TONS of 7.62×39, .308 and .223 ammo are being being bought up by dealers in the Middle East. I dunno why …

    I’m glad SOMEONE knows who’s been buying the cheap stuff but how do you know? I only knew that all the cheap .223 went out the door months ago and hasn’t been seen since. Surplus 7.62 * 39 is still available though. I haven’t looked at surplus .308 since I discovered it turned my Ruger 77 varminter ( Since replaced by a Remington 700 Light Tactical) from a 1 MOA rifle to a 7 MOA rifle. If you want to hit something with factory ammo you’re gonna pay a buck a shot or more these days. Reloading is a good answer for questions involving accuracy or cost (disregarding the possibility that you’d assign yourself an hourly wage for the cost of reloading)
    Sweet weapon Misha, hope it shoots as good as it looks.

  38. Unregistered Comment by root@localhost

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    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!
    Stay away from the Indian Ammo. Change that, don’t just stay away, RUN AWAY!!! A friend and I had made the mistake of buying two ammo cans full of that shit at a gun show, despite hearing other people saying that there were problems with it. We looked at a couple of the 10 round celephane wrapped packs and initially thought it looked O.K. to us.. We were wrong. I’m looking at two of the shitty cans full of that stuff on my living room floor right now. It’s not a matter of “Gee, it seems dirty to me”/”I have to clean my gun more” or “It doesn’t seem as accurate” It’s a matter of how fucked up the brass is. I haven’t fired ONE single round after further scrutinizing this garbage. I refused to fire this stuff (in favor of damned 50 cents a round Federal ammo) while I WATCHED the friend of mine shoot this stuff. He had approximately 7 serious malfunctions per 100 rounds fired (and several minor ones). The range personnel had to literally use a fucking rubber mallet on his Panther Arms AR10 charging handle to remove the LIVE round stuck in the chamber (failed to fully chamber). This isn’t a “Gee a friend of a friend’s sister’s brother knew someone who…” We fucked up in buying this shit and I don’t know how to dispose of this shit. I’m thinking about burying it the back yard. If any of ya’ll live in the Denver area and want it, I’ll fucking give it to you.

  39. Tom The Impaler Comment by Tom The Impaler

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    Funny, I had some lacquered case wolf brand 223 with similar problems. I vividly remember removing my shoe to beat the charging handle of my AR 180 open to get out the stuck, unfired, case. It was hell on me having to do that. don’t put bad ammo in a good gun. buy any of the “surplus” style American ammo instead. the cost will be worth it.

  40. Darth Bacon Comment by Darth Bacon

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    Nice welded sheet-metal stampings, Sire!

    Just kidding, of course, as I once worked for HK during a summer, and have owned literally a dozen (if not more) HK weapons over the years.

    I’m a stickler for military-grade function, and I have no problem with the much-maligned Wolf ammo. Lest some of you remain ignorant, Wolf sells 5.56 NATO loads made by Prvzi Partizan, which is the Serbian Army’s supplier…the Serbs don’t screw around. That being said, my similarly-maligned M4 carbines devour even the cheapest steel-cased Wolf with no complaints.

  41. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Nice welded sheet-metal stampings, Sire!

    Just kidding, of course, as I once worked for HK during a summer, and have owned literally a dozen (if not more) HK weapons over the years.

    Well, it’s a PTR, but that is as close as you can get to HK without selling a couple of your kids’ kidneys. Not to mention that the PTRs are made on HK tooling, using HK drawings and are made to fit the exact original German military standards.

    Actually, since machining has become even more accurate since the old days, the new ones are even closer to original specs and much less likely to vary in performance from rifle to rifle than the originals.

    Oh, and one of the principals of JLD Enterprises that makes them was a long-time employee of H&K, so he knoweth what he is doing.

    So… At a reasonable price, you get German engineering while supporting local businesses.

    That’s a win-win-win, as far as I’m concerned.

    Can’t wait for the damn thing to get here. :cheese1_ee:

    (Oh, and it’ll make Nancy Pisslosi wet her Depends, not to mention drive her crazy that she didn’t get a chance to outlaw it before I got it. Heh.)

  42. L.C. Rowane Comment by L.C. Rowane

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    Man, you guys have GOT to start reloading. I could never afford my .50 without reloading.

  43. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Well, there’s a slight problem with this design and reloading.

    The fluted chamber as well as the signature dent from the ejection port when it throws out the brass makes reloading virtually impossible. I suppose you *could* re-neck the dent away, but the longitudinal grooves from the chamber would be a different matter altogether.

    Not to mention that picking up your brass after shooting is a chore with a rifle known for ejecting spent casings with, er, authority. (Of course, one *could* attach the ejector catch thingummajig, I don’t know what it’s called in English, but that would just add dents to the casings. Believe me, that sucker *means* it when it discards brass, as some of my fellow grunts can attest to after having been hit in various parts of their anatomy by one - lol).

  44. Wild-Eyed Charlie Comment by Wild-Eyed Charlie

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    Second To None.

    And all the ammo’s probably drying up because Hillary announced yesterday. Looks like the old Dillon just got economical to use again (used to be cheaper to buy surplus than components).

  45. Wild-Eyed Charlie Comment by Wild-Eyed Charlie

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    A better picture.

  46. Darth Bacon Comment by Darth Bacon

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    Y’know, M’Liege…

    Having rocked literally hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of rounds through G3-based derivatives, I never noticed much damage to the case necks. YMMV.

    I was gonna add…There have apparently been a number of corrections made to the manufacturing parameters of the various stampings- all testament to the ultimate efficacy of HK’s roller-locking concept. I was thinking of getting one, but the actual 91 and the 911T in my safe would probably see fit to kick it’s ass one dark night.

  47. Darth Bacon Comment by Darth Bacon

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    Oh, and besides…

    Lest anyone should take from this that I am a detractor of Herrs Heckler und Koch, I’ve been carrying (yes, staking my life upon) an HK pistol non-stop for 13 years- and I can carry anything I want.

  48. Unregistered Comment by wulfin

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    If your looking for some 7.62 x 51 I have soem to spare your welcome to, have not been shooting much since hada stroke a few years ago, and I know you would put it to good use, just send me an email.

  49. juandos Comment by juandos

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    Folks, get used to the idea: TONS and TONS of 7.62×39, .308 and .223 ammo are being being bought up by dealers in the Middle East. I dunno why“…

    Hey Lobo (#33), I don’t doubt this for a second…

    Got something to link to regarding this?

  50. Darth Bacon Comment by Darth Bacon

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    BTW, Sire…

    You’ll be wanting a Brugger & Thomet 1913 Forearm for that rig, if it’s not already supplied with some Picatinny goodness.

  51. MasterGuns Comment by MasterGuns

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    Many interesting links here….http://home.comcast.net/~americanfirearmpage/surplus.htm

    Semper Fi

  52. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    I guess I got my 7.62×39 just in time, it was $164/1000rds shipped…

    Course, the rifle never got into my hands, but I guess I can throw it at the bad guys. It weighs enough, I didn’t notice the mass label on the case when the UPS guy handed it to me :)

  53. Wild-Eyed Charlie Comment by Wild-Eyed Charlie

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    This happens to be an area of specialty for me. I have found SA for as little as 28.5 cents a round. That’s pretty good for mil surplus, compared to the Indian stuff at 24.9 cents and 1970’s manufacture. I don’t feed any of my rifles Wolf; I respect my rifles too much.

    Maybe we should pool our resources and buy a container load of this stuff. Cheaper by the container load, split it up according to who paid how much…on second thought, do we have anyone in England that can investigate that grounded container ship? You know, a little “salvage” op?

  54. Kristopher Comment by Kristopher

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    Misha …. commercial .308 will beat a CETME/HK clone to death. Avoid the heavy hot loaded stuff designed for bolt-actions.

    If the bullets are under 150grs, it is probably loaded to NATO spec.

    Pakistani 7.62 NATO is still available …

  55. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Misha …. commercial .308 will beat a CETME/HK clone to death. Avoid the heavy hot loaded stuff designed for bolt-actions.

    Point well taken, although the PTRs are, according to gun nuts and reviewers everywhere, not merely as good as the originals, they’re better in some ways. I’ll defer judgment until my own boom stick gets here, but it sounds promising.

    At any rate, it’s a military rifle, so I really don’t have any intentions of firing anything that isn’t mil-spec through it, even if I’m confident that it can handle it quite well.

  56. Unregistered Comment by lobo

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    To juandos, #49 above:

    Hey Lobo (#33), I don’t doubt this for a second…

    Got something to link to regarding this?

    Just the word of the distributor, who used to provide my neighborhood “Turner’s Fishing and Hunting” with cheap Russian ammo (7.62×39, sold for $1.50/box of 20, which sold in the store for $3.99).

    He doesn’t even know, whether he will see ANY in the next 3-4 months …

  57. Kristopher Comment by Kristopher

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    Yea … the rumor is that all of the milspec 7.62 NATO is getting bought up by two entities … our own DoD for use in Iraq, and that asshole Chavez, who has an army load of HK G-3s to stock up for.

  58. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Misha, SAAMI pressure for 7.62×51 is 50,000psi. It is 62,000psi for .308. Some .308 conforms to the lower pressure, some don’t. Here is a good run down on the issue

    http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

    I shoot .308 in a Remington bolt gun and the loads are hot. I shoot the same IMI brass in an M1-A and am damned careful not to exceed the 50,000 psi max. I handload all my rifle ammo. I know several guys who have blown up M1-As with overpressure reloads - not cool.

    I forgot about the squirrely flutes in the G-3 chamber. This doesn’t mean reloading is out, only that it’s one shot. If you want accuracy, reload. Do not feed this rifle shit ammo. Most barrel fouling can be traced to lousy gilding metal jackets. Corrosive primers will pit the barrel pronto. Really hot burning powders will wash out the throat fast - rebarrel. Anyone know if Lake City match ammo is still available?

    I see Weideners is pedalling good IMI for $7.75 at
    http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18%7C476

  59. Unregistered Comment by Draven32

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    lobo: Turners? what part of SoCal?

  60. Agent Orange Comment by Agent Orange

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    Military 7.62×51mm arms are tested with rounds that go up to 67500 psi, so they should be able to handle .308 just fine. Though, I’m not certain whether civilian clones are built to the same specs.

  61. Unregistered Comment by irish19

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    NCLivingBrit: What happened to the rifle? BTW, which
    7.62 x 39 did you settle on? Enquiring minds and all.

  62. Wild-Eyed Charlie Comment by Wild-Eyed Charlie

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    I was searching “surplus ammunition delears” and found this:

    Backwoods Home Magazine

    It’s note really off-topic; it’s got lots of good info about self-sufficient living (which might come in real handy in the near future), and Claire Wolfe’s columns look VERY promising.

  63. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    NCLivingBrit: What happened to the rifle? BTW, which
    7.62 x 39 did you settle on? Enquiring minds and all.

    NICS issues, due to me not being a citizen. Funny thing is, I got a letter from the BATFE about my C&R licence, and all they want is a photocopy of my alien card and I am getting my own FFL! So one hand is very much not washing the other.

    Ammo-wise, I got Golden Tiger FMJ. I haven’t shot any of it yet, but it came with good recommendations from the board guys.

  64. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    #60 Agent Orange, you are talking about a proof round, not the standard operating ammunition. As other posters have noted, hot .308 sporting, or target loads will trash the rifle sooner or later.

  65. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    Claire Wolfe’s columns look VERY promising.

    Claire’s columns give me chub, Bro.

  66. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    NCLivingBrit

    NICS issues, due to me not being a citizen.

    They should be resolvable. If nothing else, get a hunting license. If you are a resident alien, then you should have been able to take possession anyway. I have transferred firearms to resident aliens before with no problems.

    Hell, for that matter, I have done transfers to NON-resident aliens also!

    Just a suggestion. Ask your FFL for the “NTN” (NICS Transaction Number), and the number for the customer service line. (I don’t know what it is offhand, we have it on speed dial at the range.) Call NICS youself, and ask what is going on with the deal.

    Unless you got held up due to some sort of problem with state laws, you should have not have been denied under federal law.

    Funny thing is, I got a letter from the BATFE about my C&R licence, and all they want is a photocopy of my alien card and I am getting my own FFL! So one hand is very much not washing the other.

    Keep in mind, FFL’s are handled by F-Troop, NICS is operated by the FBI. It’s something that the fine people at NICS find highly amusing.

  67. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    They should be resolvable. If nothing else, get a hunting license. If you are a resident alien, then you should have been able to take possession anyway. I have transferred firearms to resident aliens before with no problems.

    Funnier thing is, I’ve taken possession previously. Right now I am in the middle re-filing some paperwork the BCIS essentially lost/snafued, so that’s most likely what prevented receipt.

    Rather than go through all the hassle of fighting the denial (I already had the weapon shipped back, so it wouldn’t do me any good anyway), I am just going to get my C&R sorted and order direct. I’m mostly interested in classic stuff right now.

    Once I am done refiling (at no small cost, thanks to the Dubyament!) I’ll fix the state issue.

  68. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Or have your wife buy it, then hand it to you.

    Legal as can be.

  69. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Or have your wife buy it, then hand it to you.

    Legal as can be.

    Ah the beauty of private transfers!

  70. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    Or have your wife buy it, then hand it to you.

    Legal as can be.

    Yes and no. If she buys the gun with the express purpose of giving it to me, it’s illegal, at least according to the forms I had to sign.

    However, if one of you folks down here in NC has an SKS or AK (7.62×39 only) they’re looking to sell, I’d definitely be interested in buying :)

  71. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Amen crunchie…..and my Other Half loves shooting her .45 just as much as I do. Something about it being a great stress reliever…..for as with others and their Other Halves, both of us celebrating their joining the ranks of gun nuts. It’s hard to explain,impossible to a GFW, but all of us understand it just fine. I LIKE my gun, love shooting it! May just be a .45 but it’s my .45, an old friend. Then there is the rifle I drooled over and dare I say it, whimpering…. as I groveled….nine hundred bucks….but hey, it worked. In my safe now. And the Other Half loves shooting it too… :lol_wp: :clap_tb:

  72. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Yes and no. If she buys the gun with the express purpose of giving it to me, it’s illegal, at least according to the forms I had to sign.

    Gifts are exempt more or less Brit, at least among family members etc. Letter of the law vs. spirit and all that. Just one more example of how convoluted the BS gun laws are. Ther would never be a prosecution for that, unless you were barred by other law from owning a gun.

  73. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Yes and no. If she buys the gun with the express purpose of giving it to me, it’s illegal, at least according to the forms I had to sign.

    What Crunchie said.

    The intent of that rule is to keep people from buying a weapon, then handing it off to a felon. It is NOT to keep parents from buying presents for their kids or spouses buying gifts for each other.

    If you want to feel better about it, have the Missus say “happy Valentines” when she gives it to you.

    Not to mention that there’s absolutely nothing in the law that says that, just because she bought it, she actually has to shoot it. Ever. It’s community property, you know.

    Trust me, it is perfectly legit. I wouldn’t dream of recommending it to you if I had the slightest suspicion that it might land you in hot water, my friend.

  74. LC Guido Cabrone Comment by LC Guido Cabrone

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    Gifts are exempt more or less Brit, at least among family members etc.

    Agreed. The only time that the “straw purchase” law comes into effect is if the person purchasing the firearms is knowingly making the purchase for a felon/domestic abuser/etc.

    The intent of that rule is to keep people from buying a weapon, then handing it off to a felon. It is NOT to keep parents from buying presents for their kids or spouses buying gifts for each other.

    Unless you are in the People’s Republic of California, and I don’t even BEGIN to understand how their laws work.

    But in the FREE United States, particularly when you have an FFL on it’s way, I don’t see where there would be any problem.

  75. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    OK, please excuse my ignorance, but what the heck is an FFL?

    RH

  76. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    RH, FFL is Federal Firearms License, a dealers license to sell firearms commercially.

  77. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

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    OK, so why have I seen lots of places want an FFL to SELL you a gun? I mean, if it’s a licence to sell commercially wouldn’t that mean THEY need to have one, not you?

    RH

  78. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    OK, so why have I seen lots of places want an FFL to SELL you a gun? I mean, if it’s a licence to sell commercially wouldn’t that mean THEY need to have one, not you?

    Yep, but this is where it gets whacky. They have all kinds of Federal Firearms Licences. The one your local gunstore, pawnshop, sporting goods big-ox has is an 01 FFL - a commercial dealers licence.

    I applied for an 03 FFL - a relics and curios licence (also known as a collectors licence). This allows me to purchase firearms of a certain vintage and provenance (usually 50yrs and no full-autos) directly from a dealer, without having to get an 01 FFL involved. As transfers involve a $20(ish) fee, $5 for a NICS check and a mess of paperwork, you can see why this would be appealing to someone like me, mostly interested in owning guns of the Second World War and previous conflicts.

    I don’t -need- the licence to own any of these weapons, just to have them shipped directly to me without the intercession of a licenced firearms dealer. Oh, and in NC I also need a handgun purchase permit for every old C&R handgun I want, but I’m mostly into rifles.

    Hope that explains everything :)

    Crunchie, Guido, Misha et al, thanks for the info. My wife is uncommonly law-abiding (must be growing up in New Jersey) so she still might not like the idea. I’ll see how it goes.

  79. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Crunchie, Guido, Misha et al, thanks for the info. My wife is uncommonly law-abiding (must be growing up in New Jersey) so she still might not like the idea. I’ll see how it goes.

    Again, and I cannot stress this enough: A private transfer from your wife to you is not in any shape, form or fashion illegal, unless you’re legally barred from owning a firearm and she is deliberately and knowingly trying to subvert the letter of the law.

    Even if you, for some obscure and unimaginable reason, should be legally barred from owning a firearm by the state of NC, she would still have to know that for a fact and act deliberately, in bad faith to bypass that law in order for it to be illegal.

    The only reason that clause is on the papers you sign is because it has to be there for legal reasons, since they have to inform you that it’s illegal to pass firearms to, say, felons.

    I looked into it myself back in the day because I didn’t want to break any laws either, and it’s perfectly legit.

    Of course, if you get yourself a CHL, it’ll all be a thing of the past. Once you have one of those, you can buy guns by the gross.

  80. NCLivingBrit Comment by NCLivingBrit

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    Well, I ‘happened’ to mention this fact to her this morning (and also mentioned Valentines Day) and the response was “Oh, cool.”

    I may get to lighten those damn ammo cans sooner than I thought!