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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Why The Left Is Dangerous
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I sat down earlier this week and penned this out as the opening monologue for my radio talk-show, Tuesday Truth I cleaned it up a bit and decided to post it for the pack to gnaw on.

The hard left, being the target of most of my writing and talk is an interesting, although malignant ideology. The entire concept of liberal thought presents a dichotomy of reason, intellectual snobbery and deceit. They claim to stand for many things, such as cultural and religious tolerance, diversity, globalist governments, freedom of speech and always the ‘little guy’ or the latest manufactured ‘victim’ group. Moreover a careful look into what they purportedly ‘stand for’ reveals they actually stand for little if anything. In other words their entire ideology consists of oppositional behaviors. Their elevation of the insane, yet brilliant ideology of Marxism and his defender Trotsky is clearly seen in reading the classic tome ‘The Communist Manifesto on which socialism is based. They vehemently deny classification as socialists or communists, yet virtually every ‘idea’ they put forth can be directly linked to that writing.

The manifesto, rife with the concept of class warfare, is full of contradictions cleverly disguised by academic, elite articulation. It supposes that the only proven method of generation of wealth and power, free market economies, is merely a sham in which the proletariat class lives in thrall to an amorphous bourgeois class in total and merciless pursuit of power and wealth. Concepts of private property, an individual’s freedom in the to generation of wealth by individual’s efforts (and by extension, power) are counterproductive to the catchy lie of the “common good”. It’s summation concludes that only the elimination of the ‘bourgeois class’, replacing all control of the production of wealth under state control. Of
course in such a system the state would necessarily be an elitist class (under a false pretense of ‘the party’), assumed to be honest and capable of making proper decisions for all based on the amorphous ‘common good’.

Since it’s inception, intellectuals have seen it for what it is, a method to permit a select group to attain and maintain total power. The rational mind will see the gross paradox as it’s merely the substitution of one class for another, with the new ‘ruling’ class self-established.

The very nature of the liberal mindset and socialist culture puts the ideology, 180 degrees out of synch with conservative rational viewpoints. Moral equivocations being a prime example of this disconnect. Taken to it’s extreme, the elitist, ruling class of individuals (a large centralized government) are permanently installed into having the ultimate power and control over the ‘working class’ purportedly the system is protecting.

Contrasting the ideology of Marx and Lenin as written then, with the far left of today is starkly obvious. Virtually every key concept formulated by those madmen are fully embraced in the liberal views of ‘ideas’ of the far left.

The methodology is simple, create various classes by rhetorical subterfuge, and then imbue each class with a ‘grievance’, conveniently solvable by the nanny-statist government. The phony smiling leftist ‘pats’ the ‘victims’ on the head, assuring them justice and protection from the evil classes, if only they put them in charge at the ballot box.

Look at the many platforms being raised upon which the liberals use to attain power over our lives and our ability to create wealth by our own labors. Reparations, open-borders, excessive and obscene taxation and confiscation of wealth, universal health-care for the “downtrodden”, racial conflict, hate-crimes for ‘selected’ victim classes, creation of phony grievances, thus apologizing for the hideous and violent crimes against others.

Obviously, to address each of the manufactured grievances is government intervention placing punitive or inane controls on the perpetrator class. To maintain this mask of ‘justice for all’, they place themselves directly into every cultural/value system, which they purportedly are against. They preach false ‘rights’ for every victim class, yet wholly support abortion, conveniently ignoring the rights of the unborn, a true class without a voice or champion.

This naturally, puts them diametrically opposed to virtually every Judeao-Christian, democratic ideal of western civilization and perhaps even more dangerous, our economic system. Key to their lust of power is control of money, obtained by confiscation.

Hatred of the west, especially of George W. Bush and conservative government is the touchstone of the left’s formula of destruction. If you listen carefully to the voice of the left, they offer no real solutions to society’s ills. They only stand in opposition to anything considered conservative or placing responsibility into the hands of the individual. In order to do this they must profess lie after lie of their intentions, delivered with phony, pious sincerity. They are masters at obfuscation of the intent that really lies behind the words.

In short the far-left hates:

Liberty, Capitalism, Democracy, The Rule of Law, Freedom of Speech (unless it’s their’s) and The Judeao-Christian Spiritual and Philosophical Tradition.

All foundations of our civilization are an anathema to the socialist, far-left agenda. They use the ‘useful idiots’ as Marx or Lenin would say to advance this agenda, people like Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan and the amoral, uninformed Hollywood crowd. The real power behind the movement lies with people like Teddy Kennedy, George Soros, Jesse Jackson, the Clinton Clan and their numerous minions. They hire young people and members of the ‘professional victim’ class to ‘protest’ for the cause du jour, well indoctrinated by the Chomskyite academia and socialist front organizations. Their fellow travelers and accomplices in the leftist agenda, the media, gleefully spin, twist and create the perfect message for transmission to the uninformed, attention bereft masses.

The truly far-leftist power brokers are a clear and present danger to western society, every bit as vicious and brutal as the terrorists we with military force. Even a child recognizes evil accompanied by the sight of an AK-47 or knife, the truly evil are more subtle and dangerous, seen smiling on the television or posing for photographs, carefully framed to fool the masses into believing they are legitimately concerned for us.

These vermin in our midst lust power, absolute power that corrupts absolutely. They are beneath contempt and should be exposed wherever, whenever and however it is possible. Our culture hinges on stopping this true evil.

169 Responses to “Why The Left Is Dangerous”
  1. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    If you listen carefully to the voice of the left, they offer no real solutions to society’s ills.

    And that’s when we pull the cover of of our beloved Cluebats.

    This should be required reading before applyng for a voter’s registration.

    Outstanding Jackboot!

  2. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    As long as people whine, piss and moan about being victims of something or someone, and believe that someone “owes them”, the leftards will have a full feeding trough.

  3. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Excellent tome Jackboot. One thing kinda jumped out at me.

    These vermin in our midst lust power, absolute power that corrupts absolutely.

    What came first, the chicken or the egg? Absolute power does corrupt absolutely, but leftist are already corrupt. What will absolute power do to them if they obtain it? Is it possible to be more corrupt? I think that the hundreds of millions murdered by socialism in all it’s guises know the answer.

  4. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    I think you meant uninformed. I was trying to figure out who in Hollyweird is uniformed. No worries, it just derailed my train of thought. I loved it, but I prefer to keep it simple: They’re evil pusbags deserving of our unrelenting scorn and derision, right up to the moment that they feverishly try to destroy the moral and intellectual underpinnings of our society founded and nurtured by individuals so much greater and wiser than they themselves. Then they deserve our feet on their necks, as we look down and watch the light leave their soulless, vacuous eyes.

    [yes I did mean uninformed, fixed…thanks…-JB]

  5. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Then they deserve our feet on their necks, as we look down and watch the light leave their soulless, vacuous eyes.

    That little bit of prose brought a smile to my lips and a tingling in the nether regions.

  6. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    magnificent description, Jackboot!

    .
    .
    .

    . . . first let’s kill all the LIBRULS

  7. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Soulless eyes,,
    Empty reflections,,
    Failure’s future.
    Say G’nite!

  8. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Maybe they can be seduced?

  9. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Maybe they can be seduced?

    Hey, did you find Hillary’s personal video-clip collection?

  10. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Hey, did you find Hillary’s personal video-clip collection?

    After three years of hanging around this place, mistakenly (or just out of murbid curiosity) opening BC’s links, reading idiotic theories from avowed leftists, stomping trolls, and generally having a ball, that may just be the single most purely disgusting mental image yet.

    BLECH! PTAH! [{( . . shudder . . )}] Pass the bleach, please.

  11. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    They only stand in opposition to anything considered conservative or placing responsibility into the hands of the individual.

    What better way to keep slaves on a plantation than to convince them that Conservatives and Whitey are to blame for their lot in life.

    Forget that they have minds of their own. Forget that they have hands to work, and two feet to stand on.

    “Be a Victim!! Blame everything on everyone else. Don’t take responsibility for your own choices and your own life! You are not just an American. You are NOT just a human being. You’re a misunderstood Disenfranchised Minority! You should only expect special treatment because of your skin color or what you do in your bedroom. WE WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU! Don’t even THINK about standing on your own abilities. Don’t bother to try to make it on your own. Don’t consider climbing that ladder of the American Dream on your own merits and talents. If you do then we will wash our hands of you and you will be at the mercy of the Eeevil Republicans!!”

    I don’t care what color skin you have. I don’t care what your sexual orientation is. I don’t care what you are, who you are, or what you look like. Get off your ass and stop whining and GET A LIFE!! Stand on your own two feet and make your own way in life just like the rest of us. If you need help, ask for it with the intention that it is only temporary and that you have to take the responsibility of carrying your own load once you are on your feet.

    I had far rather know that the life I have made, the possessions that I own, the home that I have is MINE because I worked for it and earned it, and no one gave it to me just because they felt sorry for me or that they took it away from someone who worked their ass off to get it.

  12. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    I don’t think i watched the same video you did Wil, unless yer sarcasm went way over my head.

  13. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    I think CL Wil must’ve seen the real hillary collection,, not the lil’ girls with the big gunz.

  14. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    GNAG,, That’s LC Will

  15. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    Maybe they can be seduced?

    *rolling eyes*

    Men.

  16. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    What?!

  17. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Crunchie:

    I don’t think i watched the same video you did Wil, unless yer sarcasm went way over my head.

    That line by Brother Jackboot . .

    Hey, did you find Hillary’s personal video-clip collection?

    . . coming hot on the heels of

    Maybe they can be seduced?

    was just painful. All at once, my brain vaporlocked, and I was taken with the quivering fits.

  18. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Men.

    Maybe one or two, but I t’ink dey’s mostly wimmen..

    [holts for spirits-cellar]

  19. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Fanusi

    And we can convince them for one reason: They hold reason as an absolute.

    Problem is that the New Left has silenced and neutered the Old Left. So even if the Old Left would view the Long War as you say they would, it’s useless because they would be shouted down as “sell outs” by the Kostards of the New Left.

  20. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    What a fine, fine screed, brother JB!

    It made me long painfully for the good old days when killing commies was considered a civic duty.

  21. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Ah Wil I see, you were a victim of erebral flatulence, a malady near and dear to my heart.

  22. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    *cerebral* PIMF

  23. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    It made me long painfully for the good old days when killing commies was considered a civic duty.

    And good wholesome fun for the whole family!

  24. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    I gotta go getta’ innoculation or somethin, my cerebral flatulence is gettin’ contaigious!
    First me, then Wil, Crunchie, dang,,

  25. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Point taken Fanusi, but it seems like they are completely drowned out in the decision making process of the left today. Notice Reid, Obama, Pelosi, Murthafucker, etc. I’m not denying that the Old Left recognizes the evil of Islamofascism, it’s just that no one in the halls of power of the Left now listens to them.

  26. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    What will absolute power do to them if they obtain it? Is it possible to be more corrupt?

    Hell yeah Crunchie! Corruption, like stupidity and ignorance, has no floor. It can ALWAYS be exceeded through prolific effort (before you saw trolls on blogs you probably couldn’t imagine this ignorance level). The venal depths a Hitlery Cuntlin will go if nothing checks her foul ambitions is truly flesh curdling.

    Excellent JB. We should all wear your namesake and stomp collectivists!

  27. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    The “Old Left” checked out around 1968. Notably, the party took the first turn to where it lies today in the candidacy of George McGovern, an openly vocal anti-war activist.

    The debate is not about the past left, the Zell Miller and Dixiecrats, they were a viable party with appeal to a wide-range of voters without betraying national identity and security in policy-making.

    The ‘New Left’ using clever deceit, manages to maintain a significant voting-bloc by disguising themselves in the cloak of Old Left’s great thinkers and statesmen. They actively use control of the media in the maintenance of their guise, and have total, near tyrannic control of academia in order to propagate that control. Revisionist history is key to this plan abetted by the likes of Noam Chomsky, et al.

  28. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    what the hell’s wrong with you people….don’t you know the world ended today?? Paris Hilton went back to jail man….nothing else matters

    ahem…..

    been a long day LC’s. Back when I attended the University of Colorado in the early 70’s, one of the required readings for my Political Science class was the communist manifesto. I refused to read it, instead bringing in The Federalist Papers (which was not on the required reading list BTW) and reading that instead. My marxist professor kicked me out of class on a couple of occasions for being “disruptive” in our class discussions, by taking the position that a capitalist democratic republic is FAR preferable than the socialist workers paradise she promoted and insisted that we accept for a passing grade. After the third ejection from class, I went to the registrars office, dropped the class (with a failing grade) and changed my major.

    25 years later, when my nephew started at CU, I visited him on campus and there on his roommates desk was the same communist manifesto, he happened to walk in just as I held it up and said to my nephew: “Wow Nick, do you mean to tell me that the dorm gives EACH student a personal supply of ass wipes?” The kid snatched the book out of my hand and gave me this snotty little leftist look…all while my nephew stood there and laughed his butt off. My nephew is a good hard working capitalist pig now, thanks to the good job of parenting done by my sister.

  29. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    The Old Left.

    . . . sigh . . .

    Life was so much better back about 40 years or so. Politics ended at the waters edge, and the thought of a Democrat in the White House, while unpleasant to some degree, did not scare the hell out of me.

    The left lost it’s heart and soul at about the nomination of Fritz Mondale. Bill Clinton was, believe it or not, a rare moment of sanity for the modern Democrat Party. Until someone ON THEIR SIDE OF THE AISLE fires fatass Michael Moore, and Markos, and Cindy Shehag, and CNN, the situation will continue to deteriorate.

    I think we will all have to go through the fire before they find their way again.

  30. Trooper THX1138 Comment by Trooper THX1138

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    Fanusi, my only issue with Hitchens is that he declares himself not merely atheist (don’t have a problem with that, my first girlfriend was an atheist), but an ANTI-theist. In other words, if you believe in God, or in any religion except atheism, you are his enemy. Check out what he said about Jerry Falwell shortly after his death: Hitchens forgets “nil nisi bonum de mortuis”.

    And that when he’s being nice.

    I don’t believe in “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. All that means is we’ll have someone else turning on us later on, most likely at the worst possible moment for us. It’s like the scorpion who hitched a ride across the river on the back of a fox. Betrayal is in their nature.

  31. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Jaybear-

    “Wow Nick, do you mean to tell me that the dorm gives EACH student a personal supply of ass wipes?”

    Farkin’ Brilliant, just brilliant !!!!

  32. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    It made me long painfully for the good old days when killing commies was considered a civic duty

    You mean, it isn’t? Oh…. Shit…..Uh-oh!

  33. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    This is, in fact, good news. Because it is the way that we can bring the Left down. Down to its knees. And this is why I welcome men like Harris and Hitchens. They will help us do so.

    From you lips to Gods ears Fanusi, I hope you’re right.

  34. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Where, incidentally, is classcial republicanism in politics these days?

    If I assume you mean Federalism, it’s on the wane as well. The Republican Party flushed itself away from that principle in trying to appeal to the moderate center. Reagan was the last true federalist-republican politician that tried to correct the party’s move away from it’s founding principles with EO 12612, notably rescinded by Prevaricating Adulterer-in-Chief Bubba.

    Yet another reason why, I refuse to call myself a republican personally.

    But the Old Left forms the majority of the New Left’s political base. Ye cannae run a major political movement with college hippies and the rest.

    I’ll respond with two words: George Soros.

  35. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    George Soros.

    ..And friends,,Mrs.C found code pink picking on the Blue Angels,,want’s them banned forever.
    Ban code pink-o.

  36. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Linkie no workie Cheapshot

  37. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Politicians in general have forgotten what they are for. They fancy themselves rulers, not servants. Left or right, regardless, although leftards are considerably more rabid. The only way to fight against becoming subjects of a socialist nanny-state is to restrict, radically, the role of the government. It does not matter who is “in charge”, they should not have the kind of powers they already enjoy now.

  38. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    ‘See if this works,,

  39. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Ban the Blue Angels? Have these CuntPinkos lost their last collective marble?! I, personally, would sell all of these CuntPinkos into slavery in Sudan or some other craphole, if I got paid enough to purchase a drop of jet fuel for the Angels!!!

  40. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Damn it, how I hate leftards!!! Ban this, ban that, what the everloving fuck?! How about this, you drooling Marxist ass-drippings: ban yourselves.

  41. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Oh, and, in case some leftard cunts are reading this, Ban™ is pretty decent deodorant. I suggest you unwashed stinking hippies familiarize yourselves with it. That should be the only BAN you cunts ought to be shouting for.

  42. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    LC Wil
    ” first let’s kill all the LIBRULS”

    -thanks a lot!
    -or am I taking you too literally?

    Jaybear
    I would be aggravated if someone were trying to indoctrinate me. However, would it really be so horrible to read the Communist Manifesto and critique it? Point out the flaws in its logic? It does sound like your professor was not open to criticism. (This does not mean I’m into Communism!) I’ve never read it. I’ve no idea how logical its arguments are.

    I’m glad that you reminded me that you recommended I read “The Federalist Papers.” Or what that Wil?

    I think Hitler was one of the most evil beings on the face of the planet, but I’ve always meant to read “Mein Kampf” and see the genesis of his ideas. Except that I’ve heard it’s very difficult to read and doesn’t make much sense (surprise!), and I do have higher priorities in life.

    I’m not trolling. These are intellectual arguments. I’m not trying to be annoying and piss anybody off. I guess it’s just that I see no harm in reading things you violently disagree with, even if you do find them evil. The better to argue against them! I read everything I can on white supremacists. totally despise the bastards and wish them serious ill, but I think the more info I know about them the better.

    The bolding on this looks weird. I don’t think it’s anything I’ve done.

    Fanusi
    really interesting points! I look forward to re-reading them when I’m not sick

  43. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Sorry, just got to earlier threads. Boy, that Code Pink thing is pretty extreme. Having cool jets fly around is not going to traumatize anybody

    http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007684.htm

  44. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

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    Mrs. M. of no-flag sez:

    I had far rather know that the life I have made, the possessions that I own, the home that I have is MINE because I worked for it and earned it,

    Well, lock and load, cause when the left takes over the government, that’s not gonna be true any longer. Remember Hitlery’s promise…she’s gotta take things away from you for the good of the country.

  45. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Psychochick, I agree with you that there really is no harm in reading the works of someone you despise or consider evil. In fact, it is very useful. It is good to know the enemy. However, a lot of the “enemy” stuff is either extremely boring, or irrational to the point of stupidity. So, if I do bring myself to read the “enemy” stuff, I cannot help but ask: what kind of morons did this writer aim at? How could they fall for such tripe? But that’s the engineer’s brain for ya: I see what works (or makes sense) and what doesn’t. My bullshit meter is a pretty precise machine.
    I read tons of works by Lenin. The man was so full of shit, it poured out of his ears. Marx, the same way. Couldn’t stomach anything by Stalin, besides, he had ghost-writers. Stalin was a goon, a mass murderer, and he did not even try to mask his evil with philosophy. I would go further and suggest that he would give Hitler a run for his money in evil. Lenin is right up there with them, if not worse. Degrees of evil are irrelevant, to me. Someone either is or isn’t. But I am rambling…

  46. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    I am an atheist, and look forward to the day when men ‘observe no law but reason’. When all faith and unreason is swept away.

    If you deny the existence of a higher power, why must the faith (in that higher power)of others be swept away to create your vision of Utopia? To hope for something to be ’swept away’ (or destroyed) indicates you fear that which you deny the existence of.

    I am opposed to all forms of faith, and look forward to the triumph of reason.

    So you would deny those that see the reason of faith, their views? And on what grounds? I don’t doubt your profession to be an atheist, but why are my personal views somehow a threat to your concept of civilization or you?

    Sit on top of a mountain on a clear night and see the milky-way galaxy across the heavens or the beauty of the high-seas.

    Examine the elegance of the mathematics describing atomic fission in detail.

    Someone of reason, would only conclude an intelligence beyond comprehension, created it all.

    If you subscribe to atheistic reason, your existence has no meaning, intent or value within creation. Why not just commit suicide?

    ‘if he asks for your coat, give him your cloak also’ with my savings, I don’t want someone who ‘takes no thought for the morrow’ with respect to the economy, and I don’t , I absolutely do not want someone who ‘loves his enemies’, or ‘turns the other cheek’.

    It’s such a sad thing when avowed atheists, point to misinterpretation of scripture as talking points, especially to point out ‘dangerous’ Christianity. I won’t debate the horrors perpetrated by religions throughout history in general, but your precious ‘reason’ has infiltrated Christianity for the greater part and in case you haven’t noticed there hasn’t been a Spanish Inquisition for a few years.

  47. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    N@

    You mean, it isn’t? Oh…. Shit…..Uh-oh!

    Only if there are hostile witnesses. So, if there’s a moonbat in attendence… Collateral damage.

  48. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Psycochick:

    LC Wil
    ” first let’s kill all the LIBRULS”

    -thanks a lot!
    -or am I taking you too literally?

    Of course - it’s a rip on a line from Shakespeare (”First, kill all the lawyers”). I do, however, agree with Jaybear’s recommenndation to read The Federalist Papers. For that matter, the Anti-Federalist Papers. Those who forget history, etc.

    “Mein Kampf” is indeed difficult (think “War and Peace” without a plot to get a handle on the degree of difficulty), as is “The Communist Manifesto”. You should make time for it sometime in your life, but, as you point out, trying to understand dead monsters like Adolph shouldn’t be too high a priority. Life is too short.

    Be well, Psycochick.

  49. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    psychochick sez:

    I would be aggravated if someone were trying to indoctrinate me. However, would it really be so horrible to read the Communist Manifesto and critique it? Point out the flaws in its logic? It does sound like your professor was not open to criticism. (This does not mean I’m into Communism!) I’ve never read it. I’ve no idea how logical its arguments are.

    There’s nothing horrible about reading it PS, I just would rather not read it. I’ve seen the results of the utopia of marxism first hand in East Germany and Czechoslovakia, the reds didn’t leave much behind but crumbling infrastructure and miles upon miles of dead forests…killed by the acid rain of their polluting industries (didja hear me al gore?)

    Communism is an evil, oppressive ideaology like nazism or islamism. I see little difference in the three, and will not read mein kampf or the q’uran either, the evil they espouse just sickens me.

  50. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Fanusi:

    In re: your comments at # 47. While I agree that several unspeakable atrocities have been committed in the name of religion, not least of which is Christianity, I have proof of the power of the Almighty Lord, and I see her every day. I pray that you come to the same understanding (although, I would never wish the same path that my Family and I endured on anyone).

    There are some things Reason cannot explain. Too many things that require “a finger on the scale”, if you will.

    However, since I am quite sure that such digressions are quite contrary to Jackboot’s intention for this thread, I’ll stop. Peace be with you, my friend. Rest assured, that even if you don’t believe in HIM, HE still believes in you.

  51. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Wil
    I am just too literal and humorless! I knew that you were pretty tolerant intellectually, so it did seem like an odd statement from you.

    Thanks for the “Mein Kampf” warning. You know–I never tried “War and Peace.” To be honest, it scares me.

  52. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Fanusi, neither Nazism or Communism were supported by faith. Both replaced God with the State and worked tirelessly to attack faith.

  53. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Please don’t bring up Hitler and Stalin - anyone paying attention to those regimes realises that they were deeply irrational.

    Yes! To that. Thank you! I am so sick of people equating communism and fascism with reason. These doctrines counted on irrationality, as all strains of collectivism do.

  54. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Jackboot
    I don’t want to beat this to death, but I did feel strongly about your comment

    “If you subscribe to atheistic reason, your existence has no meaning, intent or value within creation. Why not just commit suicide?”

    I’m agnostic–the difference is that I acknowledge there might be a god/dess. I also appreciate the natural wonders you point out. You make the meaning of your life. There’s no reason that I can’t have a high quality life. I have a husband and a dog that both love me greatly. I try to help people whenever I can: I walk the dog for the old lady across the street. I’m kind to the psycho alcoholic up the street (Vietnam vet, incidentally). It’s very rewarding to help train the kids in the lab. It brings me joy in life to help people, and that alone makes my life worthwhile.

    The only difference in my life is that I don’t believe in a creator. I guess the existence of all the natural wonders (including us) would argue for the existence of a creator. It may well be illogical to not believe in one, but I don’t. And I don’t think faith is logical–I mean it kind of transcends logical argument. How can you argue with someone’s faith? You obviously believe strongly, and that’s not something subject to argument.

    Actually, to be way too honest, having had religion force fed down my throat as a kid probably has something to do with it, although being brought up to be helpful to people was a plus. And lets be honest, there are a lot of miserable people who believe in a God, although that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a lot of happy religious people.

  55. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Princess Natasha
    Hi, nice to see you again.

    “I am so sick of people equating communism and fascism with reason.”

    I actually disagree with you on part of that. I think (and could be wrong) that fascism is a cult of personality. However, I think you can make a logical case for Communism intellectually. I think it falls apart when applied, because people (being human) just recreate the social classes and suppress all dissent. I can’t think of a single instance of Communism that actually resulted in a society worth living in. That doesn’t mean there is no logic on paper.

  56. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    There absolutely NO logic in communism. It is absolutely against human nature? Why? Simple. Because people are different. They have different abilities, different inclinations, different talents. Then some envious ass comes along and decides he wants to make everyone and everything the same. It’s impossible! The best and brightest will be sacrificed to the worst and the dullest. Communism wants the impossible–the equality of results, as opposed to the basis of capitalism (i.e. voluntary trading of values)–the equality of opportunity. In the framework of the scientific method, communism as a theory should have been thrown into the waste-can a long time ago.

    Communism may sound good to those who would like to gain something at someone else’s expense. To a rational, thinking, self-reliant individual it sounds like a pile of shite it truly is. It’s just another fraudulent scheme.

  57. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Uh-oh! There should have been a period after “It is absolutely against human nature” instead of a question mark.

  58. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Princess Natasha
    I’m not sure if I made myself clear. As an intellectual exercise, I don’t think its totally worthless. However, as you point out, its expectations are unrealistic and result in a living hell. I’m all for capitalism, don’t get me wrong.

  59. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

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    As an intellectual exercise, I don’t think its totally worthless.

    Okay, I’ll bite…just what are the “intellectual” merits of communism?

  60. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    That their aren’t any.

  61. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    I am an atheist, and look forward to the day when men ‘observe no law but reason’. When all faith and unreason is swept away.

    Thereby ignoring that it is the basic reason inherent in Christianity that has allowed the exponential advances that Western civilzation has enjoyed over the last centuries. Even the sage of Ferney, the great Voltaire understood that the Christian God brought reason and meaning to a world sorely in need of it. The reason of which you speak is a shibboleth; a construct of the left which, as with any standard based soley in the hearts of men, continues to change over time because it is not based on any unchanging point of reference.

    Because that is the one weapon which must, I repeat, must be taken away from the left: that they cloak themselves in reason.

    Not true. They cloak themselves in narcisistic self-indulgence, and justify it by framing it as an emotional issue, and veamently shout down anyone who has the unmitigated temerity to demonstrate the gaping holes in their justifications.

    An an officer of the court, I see the “reason” of the left on a daily basis. I really don’t know whether to laugh or cry some days. “The life of the law is reason.” is no longer true, because of the emotional self-indulgence that guides the creation of law; the result is a justice system that is stretched to the breaking point, that contradicts itself, and frequently fails to offer anything resembling justice or the peaceful resolution of disputes, which is of course, synonymous with society at large.

    I’m sorry, but I find this insulting. My life has great meaning and value. I, out of the incalculable trillions that could have been born in my stead, have been granted a brief span in the Sun.

    Thus demonstrating the rank hypocrisy of athiesm; you don’t reject God, you merely replace him with yourself by making yourself the center of creation.

    I don’t expect to change your mind. Frankly, I’m not sure I want to. I find the exchanges interesting, and I get to consider the nature of faith all over again. You haven’t swayed me yet, but I appreciate the reminders.

  62. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    As to the reason that I am against all faith, it is because it is fundamentally inimical to life. We only live through our reason - faith is its opposite. Faith is in the service of death.

    I missed this steaming nugget earlier. I think this qualifies as a bomb throw. I don’t support you’d like to give some sort of explaination to justify this particular assertion…I have a few examples in mind that say otherwise, but I think we deserve to see what you’re holding to justify this particularly offensive and erroneous remark.

  63. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    SkyeChild

    My understanding is a classless society in which no one is poor and everyone has a good quality of life. The workers dominate the means of production, which means the wealth is spread around equally.

    I could see the appeal of that if you were poor and unskilled. However, it never works like that. Dictators take over and brutally control the populace, suppressing all dissent. The means of production thing never works out. The high-producing farms in the USSR were nationalized, and then the work was done by people that did not have much incentive to work hard, and the farms were a lot less productive. Like I said before, I can’t think of a single Communist country that worked out.

    However, there have been Communist Christian sects, where they considered private property a distraction from their religion. Sounds horrible to me, but I think they did last for awhile. But then it was a matter of choice–they weren’t forced into subservience like the citizens of most Communist countries.
    ——-
    On the welfare thing. It’s not like I’m in favor of abuse. My husband grew up in a decayed industrial town which did not have a lot of jobs. When he was a young, very poor father, he was on welfare, but hated it. He got a job as soon as he could.

    In SB, 2 bedroom apartments go for $1600. A lot of people are poor. The median price of a house is $1 million (for a tract home!). There is a program that takes old computers and refurbishes them and gives them to poor families with children in school. Then they do get internet service. However, it’s a good educational tool for kids, and some schools post their assignments over the internet. I don’t think it’s necessarily evil for poor families to have internet service. Now, huge tvs and stuff like that would bother me. (I don’t even have a huge tv!)

  64. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Faith is in the service of death.

    That sound’s ,, preachy..

  65. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    N’ that’s a paradigm, B is W

    replace him with yourself by making yourself the center of creation.

    [brain cells rustle, two bump}

    Singular, a Sentient.
    The Whole, Alone
    Together, the Whole

    [blow’s out candle]

  66. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Blackiswhite
    Sorry about being rude to you the other day. The meme thing sounded like an insult (now that I know what they are, I think it was)

    As an attorney, you are privy to a world I rarely see. What sorts of travesties of justice come from these leftwing people? I’m not hounding you. I seriously am curious what sorts of things go on that are based on ideology.

    The only thing I could think of off the top of my head is women who get lighter sentences for killing abusive husbands. Unless you can convince me otherwise, I don’t have a problem with that. I guess you could argue that they should have left, but that’s the most dangerous thing to do.

    Then there’s the 10 year sentence in Georgia for the teenagers that tortured a puppy and then baked it alive in a hot oven. I don’t have a problem with that either.

  67. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    women who get lighter sentences for killing abusive husbands.

    That’s self-defense, and these women should not be punished at all. But I digress, and, in any case, that is not what BlackIsWhite had in mind.

    I think what he means is the leftards’ overwhelming sympathy for scum of the earth: gangbangers, thugs, violent dope fiends etc. Like the asshole who broke into someone’s house, got shot (should have been killed!), then turned around and sued the family he tried to rob. Leftards were on his side. It’s always about some “poor, oppressed, misunderstood soul” who robs little grannys at gunpoint or beats the shit out of old men to steal their cars. Leftards, for some odd reason, sympathize with a piece of shit like that. Real victims, or individuals who dare to defend themselves, find no sympathy with these losers.

  68. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    What sorts of travesties of justice come from these leftwing people?

    For starters?

    Requiring translators for people who bring redress to the court who may not even be citizens…I say may not be because while everyone knows that they are not, you can’t ask, ’cause that would be wrong. And because we have significant resources tied up in this, and because it takes up so much court time, there is less time for dealing with other matters before the court. And in the people’s republic of Washington, we have a serious sppedy trial rule which makes criminal cases a priority, so if you have a civil matter, you might actually get a trial, 3 or 4 years after commencing the suit.

    Well-meaning approaches that mean that if Mr. and Mrs. Jones are having a fight, and the cops are called, SOMEONE—three guesses who—is going to jail.

    Layers and layers of rules and proceedures to get the business of the courts done that do not serve those who are trying to resolve the issues that brought them there, only impose a way of eliminating the work of the court for failure to follow not only the general proceedure, which serves the interest of justice, but a small technical rule, which serves the case managment of the bench.

    Any number of emotionally charged cases that make bad law…( recent decision creating the heretofore unrecognized in commonlaw or statute status of de facto parent.)

    I could go on for a while, but conservatism does not underlie any of these matters.

  69. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    As an attorney, you are privy to a world I rarely see.

    That isn’t a treat, I promise.

  70. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    What sorts of travesties of justice come from these leftwing people?

    I will throw in “Hate Crimes”. Crime is crime no matter the color of the skin of the criminal or the victim, or the gender or the sexual orientation. Giving certain groups of people “special” protection by the way of designating crimes committed against them as hate crimes is ludicrous. It all comes back on Caucasians. You seldom see a black person being charged with a hate crime against a white. You NEVER see a Mexican being charged with a hate crime against a white or black. You never see a gay person being charged with a hate crime and don’t try to blow smoke up my ass and say they don’t commit crimes against non-gays. Crime is crime. Breaking the law is breaking the law. Giving certain groups of people special victim status is Bullshit.

    It’s all part of the Leftist setup of “Victim Classes”, which is how they remain in power.

  71. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Princess Natasha
    Thank you for answering my question. I’ve been around a lot of leftwing people, and I wouldn’t call them law & order people, but they wanted evil people to go to jail.

    I guess I’ve never seen people being on the side of evil like that, and I live in a really liberal area. There was some funding to divert gangbangers to normal youth activities, but I don’t see that as a negative. I don’t think I’m naive, but around here people that do horrible things around here go to jail for long times. Actually, what I think was extreme was a road rage case where the fellow who shot the guy who punched him and was found guilty of manslaughter charges got 31 years in jail. I think that was a travesty of justice and would probably buttress your point, but there was a lot of outrage about the injustice.

    Who is sympathetic to violent criminals? Shyster lawyers? Liberals might be concerned about ameliorating the root causes of crime, but do have an interest in self-preservation. Maybe liberal vs left is an issue. The terms get used interchangably here sometimes. I guess that’s unimaginable to me that it’s really that bad in the justice system, but then I’m not an attorney. Whoever robbed a granny at gunpoint would get no sympathy here. Liberals and conservatives would be out for his/her head.

    The suing thing after breaking into someone’s home never ceases to amaze it. I guess the cases I’ve heard about involved dogbites. Well they deserved it! When I’ve mentioned that, no one believes me! It’s interesting you mentioned a shooting case. Same thing–they deserved it. I think someone would have to be pretty left-wing or anarchist to actually support a case like that, but I guess they are out there. (No, I don’t think you’re an anarchist!)

  72. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    The only thing I could think of off the top of my head is women who get lighter sentences for killing abusive husbands. Unless you can convince me otherwise, I don’t have a problem with that.

    Not only do I not have a problem with it, the abusive husbands useful organs should be put up for auction with the proceeds going to the wife and children.

  73. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

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    Who is sympathetic to violent criminals? Shyster lawyers? Liberals might be concerned about ameliorating the root causes of crime, but do have an interest in self-preservation.

    Um…how about each and every person who supports the amnesty bill? There was provision in it that the CRIMINAL element was to also be given a path to citizenship. We have enough home-grown ones. Doesn’t sound like self-preservation to me; sounds like pandering.

  74. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    psy-chk

    That “No Avatar Selected” box doesn’t suit you. Try this avatar on for size.

    (It’s Typhoid Mary from Marvel Comics).

  75. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Blackiswhite
    Thank you! You can’t ask if people are legal? That does seem wrong

    Mrs M
    Thank you for your comments. I partially agree with you. I have a ton of gay friends, but trust me, I would NEVER say that gays don’t attack non-gays. (Nor would I derive any pleasure from blowing smoke up your ass!) I see your logic in that no one deserves special favors. However, the designation is not just some liberal plot. I don’t have them off the top of my head, but studies have found the crimes listed as hate crimes to be substantially more violent than typical random crime. Now, maybe that doesn’t need a special designation. Maybe getting more badly injured in an assault would in itself result in greater jail time. I don’t know; BiW probably would. If that is the case, it is probably unnecessary to have a hate crime designation. If not, I think it is merited.

    I happened to have a list of hate crimes handy. Most of them were things like cross burnings and swastikas on synagogues. There were several traditional hate prosecutions, but there was also a black man assaulting a white man, and Asians assaulting a Latino woman. You’ll be happy to know that the featured article in the SPLC Intelligence Report issue I was looking at was on the Mexican Mafia in the US. It’s not just whites being accused of hate crimes. Actually that article looks distressing to me. They just arrested a bunch of them up here, which is kind of scary. Our gang problems tend to be teenagers. I used to live on the edge of gang territory–it’s not like I like them. But they pale compared to a hard-core criminal gang.

  76. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    The only thing I could think of off the top of my head is women who get lighter sentences for killing abusive husbands. Unless you can convince me otherwise, I don’t have a problem with that.

    I have no problem with this whatsoever. No sentence should be imposed. None! Both my sisters had abusive husbands, one I kept trying to catch in the act but never could and she wouldn’t leave at first. But let him come to my house….show him my twelve bore……. Most men such as these are petulant children and cowards. I cannot imagine in my wildest dreams ever striking my wife of twenty-six years or my daughter. Hell, one guy that threatened my wife….I went totally apeshit ballistic, had he been in the same room we would have fought, period. Many years ago I had the privilege and joy of watching a friend seventeen years old, I was nineteen, finally get the edge on his dad that used to beat the shit out of mom. Until that day……I gave him thirty seconds of kicking the shit out of dear old dad on the front lawn, than grabbed him and took off to calm him down. But mom never got hit again……and I do believe street justice has its place……

  77. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    PC,

    Go HERE and read the text of the proposed legislation. Give some thought to what it says, and tell me it doesn’t say that some groups are worthy of “extra protection”.

  78. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    Ok, Linkiethinggie busted.
    http://taxes-stupidity-and-death.blogspot.com/2007/05/dhimicrats-in-congress-continue-their.html

  79. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Gunsniper
    Way cool! I am nowhere near as good-looking, but it was perfect for me. I’ve been meaning to put a picture of my dog, but this is way better. I was going to ask how to do it, but there is a handy tool bar. Thanks!

    SkyeChild
    AARGH! I think it is stupid to let criminals stay in the country. I don’t know who proposed what, but it is a bipartisan bill. It may be an evil liberal plot to have included that. I won’t defend it. I didn’t do it, and once again, I think it is stupid. To be honest, I’ve avoided the bill, except for being happy that they might consider useful skills in deciding who can immigrate. I wasn’t sure the bill would pass.

    How can you argue about self-preservation? Who wants rapists and murderers running around? Or even thieves? I used to worry about gun-toting psychos, but I’ve had to revise my opinion.

    Wow–I thought I would get so much grief for the comment about wives killing abusive husbands.

  80. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Grief..psychochick? Hell, I agree with you, wholeheartedly. Shoot the asshole and be done with it. My wife knows how to use her .45…….and no, I never have physically abused her. I’m just not that sort of person. I hate domestic violence, passionately.

  81. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    BlackisWhite
    Yes, there are all sorts of groups getting special protection because the assaults on them tend to more violent. The point is not to declare open season on white males. I do change my mind occasionally. I had an either/or on hate crimes legislation depending on some legal information I do not know. I wish you would just answer my question on which the whole thing is based:

    Is the jail time longer for a more severe assault? Is that factored into sentencing?

  82. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Psychochick:

    I’m not sure if I made myself clear. As an intellectual exercise, I don’t think (studying communism) totally worthless.

    I’d have to agree with that. Studying that foul disease of the mind, that vicious cancer on the body of mankind, was one of the major reasons why I became a conservative.

    What I think caused the misunderstanding was when you said:

    However, I think you can make a logical case for Communism intellectually.

    You can’t make a logical case for communism, for the very simple reason that it’s illogical from the very beginning, being based on a completely false set of assumptions about human nature and behavior.

    And that is one of the main reasons that communism always turns out bad, as you correctly note. You see, since human beings are diametrically different from what communism requires them to be in order for communism to work, you have to force them to be something they are not. Which is, of course, impossible. You can force their behavior to change temporarily while you’re pointing your gun at them or starving them to death in a Gulag, but as soon as you look away they’ll still be what they’ve always been: Human.

  83. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Emporer
    I think I see your point now. I was thinking strictly intellectually as a best case scenario. But once you factor in human behavior, the whole model topples. OK–I officially revise my opinion

  84. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    One of the great beauties of our Constitution is that it was composed around true human nature, in contrast to communism in trying to define and control it. Our separation of powers, the second amendment come to mind. Safeties built into our system so as to prevent a government takeover. For a neurotic like Marx his dream was just that….an unworkable dream…….the left here suffers from a similar malady, far from a coincidence.

  85. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    That’s generally up to the judge, based on certain sentancing guidelines, etc. I think in most cases the brutality or the aggrivated nature of the crime makes a difference in the outcome. Hence the diffeences in the grade of a crime, i.e. first degree assault, second degree assault, and so forth. The inherent weakness in the idea of hate crimes is it penalizes the intent, make a presumption upon the status of the victim. The very thought is penalized. This from a sector of society that continually screams about the injustice and ineffectuality of trying to legislate morality. If that weren’t bad enough, laws like the one I directed you to Don’t require proof of intent…intent is inferred by the nature of the victim…so if you were shooting at a prowler in your home in the dark, as a white male, and you killed the prowler, who was a gay, black female, then you may have committed a hate crime. Either way, the prowler is no less or more dead, but that wouldn’t change the outcome. The legislation makes it more of a crime to commit these offenses (and yes, there are offenses) against…well, anyone who isn’t a white male, NOT anyone who isn’t a white male and got brutally beated, or killed, etc.

    It comes back to enforcing the laws on the books as a means to promote equality and due process. Charge them with the correct crime, and if they are found guilty, then they should be convicted. No “extra” help is needed. This is the mindset that got us affirmative action, which was meant by some goodhearted souls as a means to remediate past injustices. However, it has prevented suceeding generations from taking advantage of opportunities their forebears did not have and advancing on merit to a system that frequently lowers the standards to acheive a certain arbitraily set standard of diversity…which prevents us from getting the best and brightest in many civil service positions. Meritocracy has been subplanted by mediocrity, and we are all the poorer for it.

  86. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    ….the left here suffers from a similar malady, far from a coincidence.

    I can sum up the current “left” in three words, mindless self indulgence.

  87. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    BiW
    Thank you for clarifying that. If that is the case, then we don’t need special hate crimes legislation. If it’s any comfort, a lot of my liberal friends are uncomfortable with it on the basis of penalizing thought.

    That’s sad that civil servants have become mediocre. My experience with affirmative action hiring has been with faculty selection. They need to include a woman/minority within their pool, and then they pick the best candidate based on qualifications. The exception is that when a University wants to hire a professor whose spouse also wants to be a professor, they ask the relevant dept to hire him/her. Usually quality goes in pairs.

  88. WayneB Comment by WayneB

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    psychochick - first of all, I like talking to you: It’s like talking to my wife, except that you are willing to reconsider if you are shown opposing evidence.

    Ok, you’ve got a few things going on up there, but I’ll start with one you seem to have a recurring problem with, bolding. Now, the information line says you’re using Safari for your browser, running on a Mac. Since I don’t use that, I would have to ask: When (or if - do you manually type the <strong></strong> tags, or use the buttons?) you click the B button above the comment box, do you see the <strong> tag in the comment box? If you do, then just click the button twice, and type between the tags, like this: <strong>This text will be bold.</strong> If you don’t see them, I still think the issue is that it’s opening the tag and not closing it until you try to set something else as bold. If that’s happening, just remember that if your bold text continues too far, you should be able to position your cursor at the tail end of the text you want bolded, and click the B button again.

    Whew! that comes out long in text.

    Since that was so long, I’ll just mention one other thing here: Killing a serial abuser is not the problem. It’s women who use the “Abuse” (When the only “abuse” has been talking sharply to her during arguments), or even the “Postpartum Depression” excuse to kill someone, like their husband and/or children, rather than go seek help. If I have to, I’ll find articles, but I’ll have to put it off for tomorrow or the next day, just don’t have it in me today.

  89. LC Scott Comment by LC Scott

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    psychochick
    Or you could type the text you want to highlight then use the B button. as in the way you would copy text.

  90. WayneB Comment by WayneB

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    Oh, and my standard disclaimer: If you already know this, but for some strange reason it just isn’t coming out in Safari correctly, just ignore me.

  91. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Scott and Wayne
    Thanks. Actually I think the system has it in for me (paranoia coming to the fore). I always use the B commands to bracket what I want to bold, but sometimes it goes psycho! (ironically) It will bold things that don’t have the B selected. Maybe it’s a Mac quirk, but I’ve seen other people use them here, and everything seems fine. I consider it one of the mysteries of the universe (don’t mind me–arguing for hours has left me a bit loopy), but maybe it is just a Safari thing. I could try other browsers. Hmm.

  92. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Shit. I’m not touching this thread with a 3.3 meter pole. (That’s 10 feet for you non-converters.)

    Let me just put it this way:

    Zell Miller: President
    Fred Thompson: Vice President
    Tom Tancredo: Head of Homeland Security
    Rudy Giuliani: Head of FBI
    Norman Schwartzkopf: Secretary of State
    Michael Savage: Secretary of Defense
    ZZ Topp & Ted Nugent: Co-Chairs NEA (National Endowment For The Arts & Ammunition)

    ‘Nuff sed.

  93. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    As anyone who has followed the occasional brouhaha about evolution that occurs on these pages knows, I am an atheist, and look forward to the day when men ‘observe no law but reason’.

    …said the dumb son-of-a-bitch who fanatically believes in evolution but still  hasn’t offered up proof of the species that transmogrified itself into a completely different species.

    Yeah, right. 

  94. Unregistered Comment by F Hawkins

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    As pure a demonstration that the Democratic Party has way too many evil and crazy socialists as could be imagined, a majority of California Democratic Assembly Members decide that they own all the dogs (and cats) in California and will spay/neuter every last dog (and cat) over age of four months excepting those dogs (and cats) whose owner has purchased an ‘intact permit’. The permit price and qualifications may be set by local governments. These permits will be separately issued for every dog and cat individually.

    (AB1634, euphemistically titled The California Healthy Pets Act)

    No Republican voted for this theft of an entire population’s liberty to own a pet without the nanny state’s interference. Truly, this bill is about taxation and confiscation to support yet another group of legally empowered thugs.

    Full List of Members, 2007-2008
    District Name Party
    ->1st Patty Berg Dem
    2nd Doug La Malfa Rep
    3rd Rick Keene Rep
    4th Ted Gaines Rep
    5th Roger Niello Rep
    ->6th Jared Huffman Dem
    ->7th Noreen Evans Dem
    ->8th Lois Wolk Dem
    ->9th Dave Jones Dem
    10th Alan Nakanishi Rep
    ->11th Mark DeSaulnier Dem
    12th Fiona Ma Dem
    ->13th Mark Leno Dem
    ->14th Loni Hancock Dem
    15th Guy S. Houston Rep
    16th Sandré Swanson Dem
    ->17th Cathleen Galgiani Dem
    ->18th Mary Hayashi Dem
    ->19th Gene Mullin Dem
    ->20th Alberto Torrico Dem
    ->21st Ira Ruskin Dem
    ->22nd Sally J. Lieber Dem
    ->23rd Joe Coto Dem
    ->24th Jim Beall Jr. Dem
    25th Tom Berryhill Rep
    26th Greg Aghazarian Rep
    ->27th John Laird Dem
    28th Anna M. Caballero Dem
    29th Michael Villines Rep
    30th Nicole Parra Dem
    -> 31st Juan Arambula Dem
    32nd Jean Fuller Rep
    33rd Sam Blakeslee Rep
    34th Bill Maze Rep
    ->35th Pedro Nava Dem
    36th Sharon Runner Rep
    37th Audra Strickland Rep
    38th Cameron Smyth Rep
    39th Richard Alarcón*
    ->Felipe Fuentes* Dem
    ->40th Lloyd E. Levine Dem
    ->41st Julia Brownley Dem
    ->42nd Mike Feuer Dem
    ->43rd Paul Krekorian Dem
    ->44th Anthony J. Portantino Dem
    ->45th Kevin de León Dem
    ->46th Fabian Nuñez Dem
    ->47th Karen Bass Dem
    48th Mike Davis Dem
    ->49th Mike Eng Dem
    ->50th Hector De La Torre Dem
    ->51st Curren D. Price Jr. Dem
    ->52nd Mervyn M. Dymally Dem
    ->53rd Ted Lieu Dem
    ->54th Betty Karnette Dem
    ->55th Laura Richardson Dem
    56th Tony Mendoza Dem
    ->57th Edward P. Hernandez Dem
    58th Charles M. Calderon Dem
    59th Anthony Adams Rep
    60th Bob Huff Rep
    61st Nell Soto Dem
    ->62nd Wilmer Amina Carter Dem
    63rd Bill Emmerson Rep
    64th John J. Benoit Rep
    65th Paul Cook Rep
    66th Kevin Jeffries Rep
    67th Jim Silva Rep
    68th Van Tran Rep
    ->69th Jose Solorio Dem
    70th Chuck DeVore Rep
    71st Todd Spitzer Rep
    72nd Michael D. Duvall Rep
    73rd Mimi Walters Rep
    74th Martin Garrick Rep
    75th George A. Plescia Rep
    ->76th Lori Saldaña Dem
    77th Joel Anderson Rep
    78th Shirley Horton Rep
    ->79th Mary Salas Dem
    80th Bonnie Garcia Rep

    *Felipe Fuentes won the May 15, 2007 special election for the 39th Assembly District seat to replace Richard Alarcón, who resigned on March 16, 2007 to take a seat on the Los Angeles City Council.

    -> voted for this bill.

  95. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Spats, that is EXACTLY why I said:

    Shit. I’m not touching this thread with a 3.3 meter pole.

    Just because someone doesn’t “fanatically believe” in one particular brand of mysticism’s explanation of how the universe came into being, doesn’t automatically qualify one as a “dumb son-of-a-bitch“. If you’d take the time to ACTUALLY READ some of the other stuff that Fanusi writes, instead of focusing on the “fanatical evolution” (which, as you know, some of us mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging Reichwingers happen to ascribe to), you’d find out that he is actually ON OUR SIDE in the fight against radical Islam and is quite intelligent and cogent in his arguments.

    Now, I’m going back to drinking ice cold beer and talking to JB on Yahoo.

    If ya’ don’t like what I just said, you know where the Give-a-Shit Meter™ will be pegging.

    F.E.T.E.

  96. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Now, I’m going back to drinking ice cold beer and talking to JB on Yahoo.

    Still talking and the bastich won’t share one of those Ice Cold Buds™ with me.

  97. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Still talking and the bastich won’t share one of those Ice Cold Buds™ with me.

    I tried that once and my local cable provider wouldn’t honor the warranty on the modem. Fine print-reading assholes.

  98. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    still hasn’t offered up proof of the species that transmogrified itself into a completely different species.

    Hey Spatz
    I think I see the problem.
    ‘Never saw transmogrify in the database.
    No species ever pulled up genomes and hiked off to that wild of a degree of reconfiguration, ‘cept virii and other microbes.
    Nature is verrrry patient. Changes are very slow. The evidence speaks only to the truly curious.

    Different species can share features and ancestry with others of the same class, order, family, etc,,each of whom retained genetic aspects of whatever mutations allowed them to better adapt to what’s on the dinnertable at the time. The buffet changes,,nature favors the versatile.
    Successful branches thicken and sprout further mutations.

    The intact statement is;
    “Man and ape evolved from a common ancestor that was neither man nor ape.”

    I wouldn’t post this on Sunday.

  99. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    I wouldn’t post this on Sunday.

    :lol:

  100. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Fanusi
    I think your posts are really elegant and will have some questions for you when I feel better.

    About the spaying thing, initially I was strongly in favor of it and then changed my mind after reading some more. In the US, 1-2 million dogs a year are euthanized. 500,000 cats and dogs a year are euthanized because their owners died! (Now that freaks me out–we have a designated person to take our dog if we both die.) So to me, to limit the number of animals produced does not seem like a bad thing, although I do have a conservative friend who considers it oppressive government tyranny.

    HOWEVER
    1) police dogs
    apparently, you don’t know if the dog will make a good police dog until it is older (1 year?), and then you don’t want him to be neutered!

    2) cattle dogs
    they do not meet the criteria to be exempted from spaying and would go extinct in this area. They are working breeds (cattle dogs and kelpies) used to herd cattle and sheep. Also, I think we own one and have a very soft spot for them.

    It’s a shelter dog billed as a Doberman mix, but he’s got the perfect coloration to be a black and tan kelpie. I’m anxiously waiting for the dog breed DNA analysis to be available–should be any month now. I don’t know why I’m so obsessive about it–will madly love the dog, no matter what breed he is.

    Did the bill pass? I guess I’m too lazy–meant to write my congressman about it. But it’s Gallegly, so I doubt he voted for it. had to drop the local paper–bias I can live with, but evil I cannot

  101. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Cheapshot
    Nice.

    I could be wrong (and then I’m sure I will pilloried), but I thought they had discovered the common ancestor for man and apes about a year or two ago. I seem to remember a big splash in the scientific press, but maybe I’m delusional (it seems that you would not argue with me!

  102. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    There are artifacts aplenty where early hominid’s display close similarities with later hominids, that were similar to..

  103. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Cheapshot
    Cool! I had forgotten about the Piltman Down hoax. I saw a talk on the evolution of man a couple months ago–wish I remembered it better.

    Politics is my hobby, and science my career, but I actually remember the politics and history way better.

  104. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    As to my comments that faith is inimical to life, and, hence, in the service of death, my reasoning is as follows:

    What an elegant rationalization of an selfish position unsupporte by fact. Faith is the service of death? kI’m sure that would be news to Mother Teresa, or everyone in Indonesia who benefitted from the money and assistance donated by Christians tohe world over. I have no problem believing that you are a leftist, new, old or otherwise. Tha dark ages? Yes, the Catholic Church had a stranglehold on society and education, but the reformation which ushered in the different forms of protestantism also walked hand in hand with the advancements of society. Concepts such as ‘the protestant work ethic’ helped western economies grow, and seek knowledge expanding our understanding of the sciences and the world in general. As for Bush’s incomprehensible foreign policy being the product of his Christianity and a desire to turn the other cheek, I can’t profess to understand his rationale, but I certainly haven’t heard him say anything that intimates any such thing.

    Again, I find this deeply insulting. It is religion that tells you that the creator of the entire Universe likes you personally.

    If you found it anywhere as near as insulting as I found your remarks, then I am gratified. As for your interpretation of what religion tells me, I can only wonder why it is you keep swing long after the ball is in the catcher’s mitt. Religion doesn’t tell me that I am the center of the universe; in fact it lets me understand that I am one piece in an infantesimally large puzzle but my existence has a purpose.

    You are wrong; the left doesn’t cloak itself in reason, intentionally or otherwise. It rejects what has built this nation, distracts the itching ears with the Song of Self, and offers nothing of consequence but decay and death. The pretty lights and catchy tune ensnare those too lazy or too stupid to awaken to the inanition that they are gorging themselves on.

  105. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    This is a piece of revisionism that has been popular of late. It’s not true. For the centuries when Christianity ruled the West, there was nothing but misery, deprivation, war and all the other horrors that accompanied it. This is why it was called ‘The Dark Ages’. It was by breaking the stranglehold of faith during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment that allowed humanity to rise. Standards of living collapsed to far below the point that they were at in ancient Greece and Rome, and the state of knowledge was deplorable. There was a retreat from knowledge in all fields. Essentially, it would be over a millenium before human reason was able to rise again. There is an excellent article on that over at theobjectivestandard.com

    I have to argue the points made above. Fanusi, the Dark Ages started with fall of Rome, and the subsequent fall of the ancient religions. During the Dark Ages, there was a marked decline in the advancement of medieval Western Civilization, due to the Roman armies withdrawing and leaving the people vulnerable to the barbarian armies that replaced them…Many of the people suffering in Europe only survived by the hope that their faith would grant them a better existence in Heaven, it was the one thing they held on to. Christianity rose to prominence during the Dark Ages, replacing the mythological Gods of Greece and Rome, it was also one the few ways to get an education, through monastic teachings.

    Hell, Darwin is even being rejected by Turkish islamists

    If you say that your point of view is supported by tradition and faith, you are saying that reason is on the side of your opponents. That is my worry.

    Again, I disagree. If my point of view is supported by tradition, that means that there is a proven track record of results over time…that I have concrete evidence to fall back on. If it is based on faith as well, then that faith better be backed up by results too….blind faith often leads to bad outcomes. There are many people on this site who profess to asking for strength to practice God’s will in their daily duties. I am among that group, because I know what blindly practicing MY will (in my own self-professed superiority) will lead to….in my case, it led to drug and alcohol addiction and chronic unemployment. It was only through finding faith that I was able to shake that burden off and become a good husband, father, and a productive member of society.

    As for the left arguing from reason….checked out democrat underground or daily kos lately? The left don’t base their arguments on reason, they base them on the hot button of emotions…anger, fear, resentment. They have perpetuated a permanent slave caste in this country by convincing many people to not think for themselves…thereby blocking reason completely.

  106. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    I have to argue the points made above. Fanusi, the Dark Ages started with fall of Rome, and the subsequent fall of the ancient religions. During the Dark Ages, there was a marked decline in the advancement of medieval Western Civilization, due to the Roman armies withdrawing and leaving the people vulnerable to the barbarian armies that replaced them…Many of the people suffering in Europe only survived by the hope that their faith would grant them a better existence in Heaven, it was the one thing they held on to. Christianity rose to prominence during the Dark Ages, replacing the mythological Gods of Greece and Rome, it was also one the few ways to get an education, through monastic teachings.

    Not to mention that, had it not been for those Evil Monasteries, every shred of knowledge earned over the previous centuries would’ve been forever lost to the barbarian hordes. They were fortresses guarding ancient texts, waiting for a better time.

  107. Lady Heather Comment by Lady Heather

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    Outstanding comments, Jaybear and BiW.

  108. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Jaybear
    I didn’t know your background: it’s wonderful that you could turn your life around, and I see why you value faith so highly. I’m staying out of the Dark Ages debate, although both sides have really interesting arguments.

    I am once again going take a highly unpopular view. (I think liberal and left are used interchangably here.) I really find it odd to argue there is no reason on the left. It’s not like everyone is a total idiot and can’t articulate a view. Yes–some people follow blindly and don’t think for themselves, but other people reason their arguments. There is a lot of disagreement among various Democrats of what is best for the country. That wouldn’t be the case if there was no thought about issues and just blind following of sheep.

    The lead article on Daily Kos right now is a piece on Rwanda. You might disagree with what they are doing there, but it’s a well-written article.

    The Left and the Right use hot-button issues. It’s part of politics these days. You know the hot buttons on the left. However, on the right, I would use as an example that only a small number of abortions were partial-birth, but they are often advanced as the argument for why all abortions are bad. (I’ve seen pro and con on this site about abortion)

  109. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    The Emperor sez:

    Not to mention that, had it not been for those Evil Monasteries, every shred of knowledge earned over the previous centuries would’ve been forever lost to the barbarian hordes. They were fortresses guarding ancient texts, waiting for a better time.

    So very true, if only they had gotten ahold of some more of the historical and religious relics before they were destroyed by the hordes of Saladin and the later conquerors of the Byzantine empire.

    Funny thing about those evil “Christian” monasteries, they didn’t distinguish between the ancient relics they protected. The monks guarded items from every religion and every culture, they even protected the legacy of the muslim religion. They were also the only ones to leave a detailed and accurate record of that era….chronicling the rise and fall of Anglo-Saxon England and the subsequent flourishing of the Norman empire.

    Oh yeah, thanks for the good words Lady H

  110. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Emporer and Jaybear
    That’s awesome knowledge I didn’t know. Thank you so much for providing that information!

  111. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    Thanks Psychochick, glad you got your avatar working. If anyone wants to read a good book on this era of history, I recommend:

    1066: The Hidden History of the Bayeux Tapestry

    It details the events leading up to the Battle of Hastings in 1066, as well as describing in a very readable way, the story of that history contained in the Bayeux Tapestry. The author goes into the history of the tapestry itself…quite a story there too. I’m about halfway through it and will probably turn right around and re-read it…I don’t do that very often.

  112. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Lessee,
    Though the point be thoroughly serviced,,ah well,

    It seems a bunch of intellectual dissidents looted a huge hunk of the treasures and literature of ancient china, bolted to an island to the south when chairman mao labeled them all traitors to the revolution.

    I got kicked from several chinese boards for noting that the treasures “stolen” would not exist if the little red book waivers got to them first.

    Formosa needed a new name.

  113. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    Details Cheapshot, gimme details man!!!
    I remember something about that happening in China but don’t know the whole story. I’m in a learnin’ mood tonight.

  114. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Cheapshot

    You might know–what’s the name of the book about the wealthy Chinese woman and what she suffered during the Cultural Revolution? I think it came out in the late 1980s. Boy, that’s going to torment me. When they came to take her away, they smashed all the historical treasures she had.

    And I guess people were super into geneology going way back, and they burned all the books!

    I guess this isn’t news to you at all, but it’s stuff I had long forgotten.

    speaking of evil leftists–now here I agree–although this is beyond left and into Communism

    Several of my fellow graduate students were Chinese and had been sent to re-education camps (I guess that shows my age). I could tell a story about stealing a boat and going to a tuberculosis sanitarium on an island because they showed movies!

  115. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    The communist revolution of china? Long story, gory.
    Not so much a religious thing, but a brainwipe of individuality. china declared war on it’sself.
    Naturally the scholars, artist, heck, even the sharpei dogs were considered booog-wah and held up as the symbol of the oppression of the worker’s party, hunted and killed with glee.
    NNnnnasssty. socialissssts.

  116. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    To continue China bashing, not long ago they had a couple incidents of rabies, so they killed ALL the dogs in one province. They didn’t even shoot them–they clubbed them to death. The poor owners had no choice but to comply, but that would turn me into a homicidal maniac. (No–I’m not one already).

    Now under the evil leftist category, I started reading the LA Times (MSM, oh well). There is an article about touring North Korea that is kind of creepy. You shouldn’t smoke or wear sloppy clothes if you are in the presence of a picture of the great leader!

    latimes.com/columnone

  117. LC Gunsniper Comment by LC Gunsniper

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    To continue China bashing, not long ago they had a couple incidents of rabies, so they killed ALL the dogs in one province. They didn’t even shoot them–they clubbed them to death. The poor owners had no choice but to comply, but that would turn me into a homicidal maniac. (No–I’m not one already).

    A story less than a year old.

    ANY group or so -called civilization that would slaughter dogs in this volume and manner deserves to be burned by nuclear fire IMO.

  118. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    A country that will force abortions on parents of the second child, charges the family of executed political opponents the money for the ammo they used, and culling dogs surprises you.

  119. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Crunchie
    Good point. What I found particularly disturbing was taking women about to give birth and then injecting them saline, so the child was stillborn. What is that about charging for the ammo? That’s a nice touch–wasn’t familiar with that.

    I think dogs are a hot button topic for some people (me!). For those of us that don’t have children, they mean the world.

    RANDOM LEFT-WING STUFF

    I went to a conference that was supposed to be in Berlin right after the fall of the Berlin wall. But it was really in the East German forest near Berlin. It was a compound that had been used to train the elite Socialist youth. There were worker’s statues everywhere. The beds were horribly uncomfortable, and the help was surly. Nearby was a restaurant that had been Goebbel’s summer home. CREEPY! The people from Yugoslavia were particularly creeped out by the former Nazi home. They had a tour of Berlin organized for the spouses while we listened to talks. My husband went with all the wives. Apparently the guide marched them to death: “You must see this! You must see that!” Typical German (I have the right to say that)

  120. Unregistered Comment by LC Elchonon, Imperial Chief of Civil Disobedience

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    try reading “the final days” by barbra olson…

  121. Unregistered Comment by LC Elchonon, Imperial Chief of Civil Disobedience

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    zel miller is HOT

    “I found a den of copperheads under my porch and I found the nearest hoe and killed them all. Those copperheads were threatening my home and my family and that’s just what we need to do to the terrorists… just like those copperheads I’d just their cut heads off and kill them, dead. Just like that.” — 10/05/06 in Salt Lake City on the Iraqi war.

  122. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    I wasn’t sure where to post this. I was reading an article on inquiries into secret prisons in Eastern Europe in the LA Times. I know you guys always think the MSM is evil and biased. Well I wanted to mention a quote from that article:

    “some European anti-terrorism officials say privately that sometimes brutal measures by US agencies have helped prevent Al Qaeda strikes on the scale of the Sept. 11 attacks.”

  123. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    ANY group or so -called civilization that would slaughter dogs in this volume and manner deserves to be burned by nuclear fire IMO.

    G-Sniper I couldn’t agree more (as my golden retriever warms my feet from a Goracle inspired freak cold front). The only solace I take is if these dogs were rabid, clubbing them (and spraying blood) would surely also infect many of the scumbags. Cocksuckers.


    zel miller is HOT

    Wow! Talk about some serious TMI!

    Don’t worry boy - conservatives need their fag constituency too.

  124. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    “some European anti-terrorism officials say privately that sometimes brutal measures by US agencies have helped prevent Al Qaeda strikes on the scale of the Sept. 11 attacks.”

    Why is it only private? Isn’t preventing atrocities worth publicizing? And doesn’t brutal, by definition, mean excessive and unnessessary?

    Embarassed by success eh? You’ve been inculcated well! Protected species (towelheads) coddling doesn’t fly when it prevents mass murder.

  125. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Radical Redneck

    “Embarassed by success eh? You’ve been inculcated well!”

    Europeans?

  126. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Jackboot
    Well, it took me 11 hours, but I finally read your assay in full. If I understand you correctly, liberals are just mouthpieces for far-left people? Thus, every argument I make can be dismissed as “obfuscation of the intent that really lies behind the words.” No wonder you think of me as you do (I’m not being paranoid here).

    Well, I have never seen a copy of “The Communist Manifesto.” I have never read Marx or Trotsky. I probably should have to understand them better, since I think their policies would be disastrous for our country.

    In short the far-left hates:

    Liberty: would die for it

    Capitalism: husband runs a bookstore!

    Democracy: sacred as the source of our freedoms

    The Rule of Law: think it applies to me and every one I know. current crimes limited to speeding (some drug use in past). Is it really in my self-interest to have criminals running around?

    Freedom of Speech (unless it’s their’s): somewhat fair, but there are a lot of right-wing books and magazines. No one censors them. They are available in bookstores.

    Judeao-Christian Spiritual and Philosophical Tradition: I am lacking spiritually, but there are a hell of a lot of liberal churches (and synagogues). I actually strongly believe in the teachings of Christ, even though I don’t believe in him. Does that count?

    ———
    Lets talk about hate-crimes legislation. I understand the arguments against it. However, there is one particular case I find interesting. There is a dreadful prison-based Latino gang on the West Coast called the Mexican Mafia. In their neighborhoods in LA, they have been killing all the blacks. Not black gangbangers, but people waiting at a bus stop for instance. Now these guys charged with murder can be prosecuted at the federal level because they were charged with a hate crime. That means they can go to prison on the East Coast where they can’t coordinate crimes with their other buddies in jail. Plus there is no parole. Now that seem like that is justice to me. Particularly violent criminals are getting stiffer sentences (people tend to get released really early in Cal due to massive overcrowding). Is this such a bad outcome from this legislation?

    I wouldn’t argue that it is always the right thing to do, but I think there are some cases that merit it.

  127. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    No species ever pulled up genomes and hiked off to that wild of a degree of reconfiguration, ‘cept virii and other microbes.

    Precisely, Cheapshot.  And no species ever will.  But that’s what the evolutionary nutjobs claim, e.g. that we evolved from apes.

    Different species can share features and ancestry with others of the same class, order, family, etc,

    So we share opposable thumbs with orangutans.  It doesn’t make the orangutans human, nor is it likely to anytime soon.

    “Man and ape evolved from a common ancestor that was neither man nor ape.”

    And all I’m saying is “Prove it”.  And to date, no one has.

    Now, to deal with BC:

    Spats, that is EXACTLY why I said:  Shit. I’m not touching this thread with a 3.3 meter pole.

    Uh huh.  Which is exactly why you decided to jump in anyway.

    Good little object lesson there.  Say you’re not going to do something, then go ahead and do it.

    Just because someone doesn’t “fanatically believe” in one particular brand of mysticism’s explanation of how the universe came into being, doesn’t automatically qualify one as a “dumb son-of-a-bitch“.

    Not necessarily.  But when this bastard as much as says that Christians do not employ reason, that Christianity was reponsible for the Dark Ages (when he doesn’t even have “reason” enough to know what the tenets of true Christianity even are), then yes - to me, he is a dumb son-of-a-bitch.

    And if you wanna join him in that glass slipper, Cinderella - that’s your problem, not mine.

    If you’d take the time to ACTUALLY READ some of the other stuff that Fanusi writes, instead of focusing on the “fanatical evolution” (which, as you know, some of us mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging Reichwingers happen to ascribe to), you’d find out that he is actually ON OUR SIDE in the fight against radical Islam and is quite intelligent and cogent in his arguments.

    Gee, maybe if Fanusi had bothered to read what Christianity really is, and how it’s supposed to be practiced, maybe he’d have realized that Christianity had nothing to do with the Dark Ages, y’think?  Painting Christianity with such a broad brush is a little like blaming Bush for the traffic jam in north Dallas the other day - yeah, it gets done, but not by people who are all that intelligent.

    But to use your very own logic, should we now give full absolution to, say, John McCain?  After all, he wants to defeat the Islamonazis too - and  he was a POW in Vietnam.  So he gets a pass now?

    (crickets)

    Yeah, that’s what I thought… 

  128. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Mornin’ Spatz!
    Can we establish what is acceptable as evidence?

    And all I’m saying is “Prove it”. And to date, no one has.

    Don’t let the e-nutz distract you. Some of em’ got their finger’s whacked by the same ones I did. I’m just a little more selective in my grudges.

    If they are sayin’ evolution spontaneously morph’s like a butterfly,,well, lemme know if they ever come up with something, . ‘Don’t want to antagonize anyone, but curiosity is worse than crack around here. Ob-sessive. Ain’t seen that in my travels.

    If the artifacts, their compositions,locations and dates hold no significance to you, then you’re right, there is no evidence.

    If the patterns of chromosomal makeup (family fingerprint) follow migrations of groups around the planet, forming some fairly readable family trees,,long predating biblical history register nothing on the credibility scale, well, that exhibit is verbot.

    I ain’t no e-nut, but if you’re really lookin’ for the blue dress… we are too.

  129. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    If they are sayin’ evolution spontaneously morph’s like a butterfly,,well, lemme know if they ever come up with something, . ‘Don’t want to antagonize anyone, but curiosity is worse than crack around here. Ob-sessive. Ain’t seen that in my travels.

    That’s what they started out with - the whole argument that men evolved from apes.  The whole “missing link” thing and all that.

    I think that, once they found out they weren’t going to be able to prove that  up, they started with this whole incremental business about “ooooooh, this generation of plenipenitiary left-handed aborigine protozoa has microbes .000000000000028 MICRONS LARGER!!!!!  than the last generation!!!  IT’S ABSOLUTE, CONCRETE PROOF OF EVOLUTION!!!!!!!

    What-freakin’-ever.

    If the artifacts, their compositions,locations and dates hold no significance to you, then you’re right, there is no evidence.

    They really don’t, primarily because I don’t think they can accurately come up with said compositions, locations & dates, based on the methods they’re using to arrive at same.  Carbon-14 comes to mind:

    Currently three “radiometric clocks” are used to date materials. These use three radioactive isotopes: uranium-238, potassium-40, or carbon-14. Uranium-238, potassium-40 have long half-lives ( 4.5 billion years and 1.3 billion years respectively) while carbon-14 has a shorter half-life of 5,730 years. Obviously carbon-14 can’t be used to date fossils if they are as old as the evolutionists maintain. So how can fossils be dated?

    If you’re an evolutionist, the answer is simple: By guesstimate, of course.

    It’s actually a pretty good article.  I’d encourage the reading thereof.

  130. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

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    Freedom of Speech (unless it’s their’s): somewhat fair, but there are a lot of right-wing books and magazines. No one censors them. They are available in bookstores.

    There are calls on both sides to ban reading material. That’s dangerous all around. It’s to the left’s advantage to call for censorship, however, because an uneducated populace is far easier to take control of.

    The conservatives didn’t call for censorship of Air America, but the left is STILL trying to shut down Hannity, Rush, Boortz, and other right-wing talk radio hosts. One has to ask…what are they so afraid of?

  131. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

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    Spats,

    I once read an answer from a “scientist” that was the classic circular reasoning. Someone had asked him how he knew that fossil was X-billion years old. He said the soil was that old. How did they know the soil was that old? That’s how old the fossil was….

  132. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Gee, maybe if Fanusi had bothered to read what Christianity really is, and how it’s supposed to be practiced, maybe he’d have realized that Christianity had nothing to do with the Dark Ages, y’think?

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :lol:

    That right there is some funny shi’ite, man!

    Keep drinkin’ that Revisionist Holy Water KoolAid®.

    If that’s your mindset, then the same could be said about Communism. “If they just read up on Communism and how it’s SUPPOSED to be practiced, they’d realize that Communism had nothing to do with the Stalinist & Red Chinese purges!”

    BTW, isn’t revisionism what we’re supposedly against, when it comes to the Left doing the same thing with their whitewashing of the historical atrocities of Socialism, Communism, Fascism & Islam?

    I’m done with you and your Flat Earther & Christian Revisionist horseshit. Keep throwing those bombs. It seems to be the only thing you’re capable of doing with any consistency, since it doesn’t require having to have any physical, observable or testable evidence. Who gives a shit about physics, geology, archaeology, paleontology or silly stuff like that?

    I BELIEEEEVE! Therefore, it’s true.

    Remember, AlGore’s mirror looks just as ugly as the original.

    BTW, you know where I live & you know the drill. I’ll even happily pick you up at the airport. I hear Jet Blue is having some really great deals these days.

    :lol:

    PS: To those who genuinely practice Christianity, the above was not meant as a slam against you and your faith. Yes, a lot of very good things have come and continue to come from people of good faith. It’s the historical revisionist zealots that really piss me off when they try to rationalize and obfuscate the historical role that Christianity played in some of the most vile & atrocious times in human history. To bury this historical aspect is to lessen the courage & achievements of those who truly put their lives on the line to bring about The Reformation.

    If modern-day Christians can’t look back and admit that their religion was “hi-jacked” by a “small, power-hungry extremist minority” that slaughtered millions of people, and then went through a bloody, centuries-long reformation process, then how the fuck can they cast aspersions towards the Islamic nutjobs of today? Glass houses, anyone?

    Anyhow, it’s a very nice day out and I’ve got better things to do than sit here and waste Misha’s electrons and server space.

    F.E.T.E.

  133. MasterGuns, Imperial Marine Comment by MasterGuns, Imperial Marine

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    Fanusi

    I am another person here at the Rott that believes evolution theories to have some merit. I also don’t think that Christianity and creationism…..and the theory of evolution are necessarily mutually exclusive.

    I also agree that religion extremism is totally wrong and immoral regardless of the faith being discussed. That being said, I consider myself to be a Christian.

    I also agree with your take on the “old left” and certain leftists of today such as Hitchens versus the “new left” that are generally referred to as moonbats(though leftist loons is also appropriate).

    You and I have many basic disagreements in terms of our politics I think, but on many other things we are in total agreement(radical Islam comes to mind).

    Semper Fi

  134. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    That’s what they started out with - the whole argument that men evolved from apes. The whole “missing link” thing and all that.

    Well, I see a touch of fragmentation in your understanding of the science, which I reckon’ has just GOT to be maddening.

    Now, as the rationale remains, all the artifacts locations, compositions, ages and such no longer rise to the level of evidence, carbon 14 being the only dating method,,
    Maybe you’re right Spatz.
    Each family of prehistoric fossilized bones is proof of a sigular creation only of a sigular divinely created species, which produced non-evolving offspring, which is either still here today or extinct.

    Case closed.

    (bolt’s for shelter)

  135. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Ah, Fanusi, another debate about religions and the merits/dangers thereof. I believe somebody rang my bell ;)

    First, however, I’ll have to point out that whereas most of your arguments are presented in a cogent, reasonable fashion (whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant), claiming that Christianity is “in the service of death” isn’t exactly likely to get you calm, reasonable counterarguments thrown back at you.

    Which is a great pity because, whereas I still don’t agree with you overall, the rest of your argument with few exceptions is an interesting one, so you’re doing it a great disservice by sprinkling it with hand grenades like that.

    No, I’m certainly don’t going to deny that Christianity has been hijacked by power-hungry, nutty individuals in the past, monsters committing horrid things in the name of G-d, but there is still a huge difference between that and islam that you seem to miss:

    There is nothing, nothing in Holy Scripture justifying what they did whereas, in islam, there are plenty of koranic references “justifying” their atrocities.

    That’s quite an important difference, since it makes it quite easy for Christians to denounce fakes committing crimes in the name of G-d and quite difficult for the mad ones to justify their deeds to Christians in general. Take Phred Phelps the Phaggot Phuckhead, for instance. You don’t even have to intellectually demonstrate why he’s nothing but a psychotic, garden-variety lunatic (not that it’s hard to do that), you can actually pull the rug out from under him by using the very Book that he’s claiming to follow against him.

    So why didn’t anybody do that during the Dark Ages? Simple: Because nobody but the power-mad elite had access to Holy Scripture, which made it impossible for The Great Unwashed to argue against them. The tyrants could claim anything they liked, and nobody would be able to gainsay their lunacy. Until Martin Luther put an end to that nonsense and Christianity became mainstream, with people from all walks of life arguing and debating endlessly and openly about the Bible and the meaning thereof. And did the Church react by murdering all the “apostates?” No, it didn’t.

    Also, the Dark Ages: For the last time, the Dark Ages weren’t caused by the Church, they were caused by the fall of civilization to the barbarians.

    Faced with the anarchy of illiterate savages roaming the countryside, murdering left, right and center and spending centuries locked in senseless, internecine battles and feuds, the Church did the only sensible thing they could do: The battened down the hatches and let nature take its course. If they’d opened their doors and given everybody free access to the accumulated knowledge of the classical age, that knowledge would’ve been destroyed quicker than you can say “book burning.”

    You say they kept the populace in ignorance, and you’re right. They did. Deliberately. And it was the smartest thing they could have ever done. The general populace were already some of the most woefully ignorant fucks to ever waste DNA, and the only way the Church and their vaults of knowledge could survive the maelstrom of barbarism was to maintain control of the Great Unwashed, keeping them in awe and fear of the supernatural, mystical “connections” of the Church leaders and their followers. If the barbarians had ever been allowed to think of the Church as nothing but a collection of mortal monks, they would’ve overrun and sacked every single church and monastery in a heartbeat for the plunder alone.

    “Reason” would’ve destroyed all knowledge in its wake.

    And if you think that I’m exaggerating the importance of Church control, think of the islamic invasions. The ONLY power in Europe that could’ve ever mustered a coordinated defense like the Crusades was the Church. The sad gaggle of ignorant feudal warlords would’ve never been able to quit battling and killing each other over local, minor concerns to ever mount anything remotely resembling a coordinated defense.

    Europe would’ve fallen to the hordes of Mohammed, slice by slice, and we wouldn’t be having this discussion today because we’d be too busy washing our feet in preparation for mandatory prayer.

    Was it mean of the Church to shut knowledge off from the general populace and hoard power for themselves like that? You could argue that, to be sure, but you have to keep it in historical context. If they hadn’t, then NOTHING would remain of the classics today and we’d all be bowing towards mecca five times a day.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures, and the Church, by creating a “time capsule” of knowledge while weathering the storm of barbarism, saved all of that knowledge which we treasure today, not to mention that they saved Western Civilization in the process.

  136. Xystus Comment by Xystus

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    Hey, I guess it’s my turn. Since I can’t crank out halfway decent (or better) essays like der Grosse Rottweiler, however, taking this turn may not be so easy.

    First I’ll disclaim the ability to prove anything to anyone. In my insignificant opinion proof is something that exists on paper or in the mind, & I’ll gladly leave it to the realms of mathematics & philosophy.

    A certain amount of disagreement is healthy. Someone (T. Jefferson??) said, “The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom,” & I find that a good argument in itself.

    I’d say the Emp has the “Dark Ages” basically right. One thing I recall from medieval history is that if any time in the West fits that name, it’s the post-Carolingian era, corresponding with the early Viking Age; the other interlopers were Magyars (who eventually founded Hungary), & Saracens (essentially the Empire of the Caliphate).

    Also gotta give some Arabs their due: It seems many ancient Greek texts survived only through Arabic translations.
    I’d rather have such as the Hitchman & Fanuster on our side than otherwise, of course. Not having a problem with atheists per se, I recognize that they do set themselves up for (metaphorical!) target practice by attacking beliefs differing from their own.

    It might be a little easier for them if they bear in mind the recent finding that humans naturally tend to be religious–which means, at least, that they can’t condemn the phenomenon as a mere artificial error. As for rationaistic triumphalism–forget it! People just ain’t totally rational, & I don’t think they’d want to be! You’d have to cut out irrational things like music–& no sex, dammit (except for replacements, maybe)!

    Unfortunately dinner here is early today; I need to quit so I can indulge in some irrational digestive-related activities.

  137. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Fanusi
    Both you and Misha have an incredible breadth of knowledge. Now, I am the token liberal on this site, which is sometimes misinterpreted to mean that I am a Socialist. Not! Sometimes I ask questions that seem inflammatory because I want to learn new information. It appears that you have had formal training in philosophy and history at a pretty high level. I have spent most of my time studying plant and fungal science and have almost no formal training in your subjects. I have studied the Bible some when I was young, and I am glad you pointed out some of the unreasonable commandments in the Old Testament. (I think the New Testament is wonderful). Also, I want to point out that criticizing the bible in the past for inspiration for horrible things (I would mention the Spanish Inquisition) is not at all a slam against current Christianity. Very few, if any, people use the bible these days as an excuse to torture people.

    I have not formally studied the Koran. However, in addition to the admonitions to violence, I do know there are also commandments to choose peace if possible and not to harm women and children. I wonder if the Koran varies like the Bible does. I think it is clear the jihadists and insurgents are evil people who should be destroyed at all cost. However, I question whether Islam is fundamentally evil like you say. There are peaceful Muslim countries like Indonesia, who had a female prime minister, and Algeria, in which 70% of the women are lawyers. These countries have ties to the West. They do not seem evil. Now, this is a sincere question: Please explain to me how Islam is intrinsically evil. (I do not need any lectures about Al Queda–they are obviously barbarian.)

    I also wonder how you can say Bush turns the other cheek. We are at war–it’s not like he’s leading peace rallies.

    Didn’t Egypt have the largest library in the world at one point?

    SkyeChild
    I have posted several times that an educated citizenry is necessary for democracy to function. There are far too many uneducated people, and honestly, it frightens me. And I think they are just as likely to be swayed by the right as by liberals. I don’t remember the figures, but the vast majority of talk shows are right-wing. It’s not like liberals have a stranglehold on thought in this country. The most uneducated and incurious person I know is a conservative, actually.

    I would not kick Hannity off the air, but there are good reasons for Rush, but I will censor myself, because I’m not in the mood for evisceration (it’s hard to digest your food if you don’t have any bowels). As for Air America, it’s struggling to survive. I don’t think it’s worth a fuss.

    Interestingly, FIAR thinks I would be better off uninformed, then “misinformed.”

  138. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    Kewl! BC’s using my avatar! :)

  139. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Kewl! BC’s using my avatar! :grin:

    Yup. Much obliged, RR.

  140. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    BC, I sent a link to your comment to the artist. Who knows, maybe he’ll get on board (he leans right but is not very political). With the stuff he’d design and draw the Rott would get even more scary! :lol:

  141. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    Well, I see a touch of fragmentation in your understanding of the science, which I reckon’ has just GOT to be maddening.

    Yeah, well, I see in evolution a claim that’s been made but never substantiated, yet it’s being accepted at face value by people who ought to know better.

    C’mon, Cheapshot.  Show me the species that changed itself.  That’s all.  Seems soooooo easy to do, especially for the great god SCIENCE!!!!, that it should be a walk in the park, right?

    Right?

    Hmmm, there go those crickets again…

    Gee, silly me. You know, I really thought that the King James Bible, St. Augustine, Tertullian and so on had something to do with Christinaity.

    Okay, Einstein, tell me, in all your infinite  (*cough*) wisdom, exactly what Christianity is.  Put some of those “reason” skills to work and see if you can come up with a cogent answer.

    Here’s a hint:  you’ll have to do it without consulting talkorigins.net.  Get to crackin’ that book, jackass.

    “What limited medical knowledge had been accumulated by Greek and Roman physicians was supplanted by utter mysticism.” For example, St. Augustine believed that demons were responsible for diseases, a tragic regression from Hippocrates.

    And St, Augustine was following exactly which  Scripture again?  Go ahead, Big Reason Guy™, spell it out for all of us.  I’ll wait.

    Contributing to the educational debacle, in 529 the Christian emperor, Just-inian I, ruling the Eastern Empire from Constantinople and holding that Greek philosophy was “inherently subversive of Christian belief,” closed all the pagan schools of philosophy, including Plato’s Academy, which, for 900 years, had specialized in the teachings of its founder.

    Well, you’ll be pleased to hear that they did  make a comeback.  Today they’re called “public schools”.

    No religions need apply - unless, of course, you happen to be Muslim.  Plato would be so  proud.

    Spatula, don’t you recognize who you sound like? You sound no different from those Islamic apologies who say, no, no jihad and terrorism have nothing to do with Islam, you just don’t know anything about Islam.

    Except Christians don’t go around flying planes into mosques, do we?  So much for “reason”, huh?

    I’m sorry, but that just isn’t true. The Bible sanctions selling your daughter into slavery (Exodus, 21:7-11), slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46, Ephesians 6:5, 1 Timothy 6:1-4).

    Nope, not quite.  Try again, Reason Boy.

    It also supports the death penalty for apostasy (13:6-15)

    Got a specific book there, Einstein?

    talking back to your parents (Leviticus 20:9)

    Hmmmm.  Not a bad idea, IYAM.  Otherwise, they might turn into atheists.

    adultery (Leviticus 20:10).

    Just think - we could’ve been spared Kaiser Wilhelm von Skirtchaser.  I think you’re on to something there, Einstein.

    Okay, enough. This can go on for ever, but it isn’t the topic of the post, and it really isn’t what I am interested in. Anyone who thinks that Christianity is what it was five hundred years ago is simply wrong.

    Oh, but you were certainly content to let us believe that slavery 5,000 years ago was precisely what it was 140 years ago.

    Guess that’s what “reason” gets you, huh?

    If that’s your mindset, then the same could be said about Communism. “If they just read up on Communism and how it’s SUPPOSED to be practiced, they’d realize that Communism had nothing to do with the Stalinist & Red Chinese purges!”

    Why, how nice you should invoke Communism, BC.  Their state religion is atheism, too.  Sooooo  nice to see you identify with them so very well.

    From the Soviets to the ChiComs to BC - peas in a fucking pod.

    BTW, isn’t revisionism what we’re supposedly against, when it comes to the Left doing the same thing with their whitewashing of the historical atrocities of Socialism, Communism, Fascism & Islam?

    How about you just document for me that those who were committing these atrocities during the Dark Ages were following the teachings of Christ, hm?  Better yet, show me where Christ instructed his followers that:

    a) the earth was flat, or
    b) witches were to be burned at the stake, or
    c) heretics were to receive the rack-and-thumbscrew treatment, or
    d) any other  bullshit anti-Christian meme that comes out of your ass, since that’s where you seem to get most of your ideas about Christianity nowadays, anyway.

    Hey, maybe you can get some ideas from your ideological homeys, the Soviets and/or the ChiComs!  They hate Christianity as much as you do, so maybe they’ll help you out, hm?

    If modern-day Christians can’t look back and admit that their religion was “hi-jacked” by a “small, power-hungry extremist minority” that slaughtered millions of people, and then went through a bloody, centuries-long reformation process, then how the fuck can they cast aspersions towards the Islamic nutjobs of today? Glass houses, anyone?

    Maybe it’s that our  Scripture doesn’t say “kill the infidel” and theirs does.  Ever stop to consider that?

    No, of course not.  That’d require some actual thought  on your part.

    BTW, you know where I live & you know the drill.

    I believe that’s my  line.  Damn, can’t you think of anything original?

    And you get to pay your own  fucking way this time - I helped pay your way up here last time and never even got so much as a fucking thank-you for my trouble.

  142. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Spatula
    I hesitate to respond to you, because I don’t do well with invective.

    However, a species changing itself comes to mind. In Britain, in the pre-industrial age, there were trees with white bark. Moths would sit on the tree trunks and were white to camoflague themselves. As the Industrial Revolution progressed, there was so much air pollution that the tree trunks turned black. There was selection pressure on the white moths to evolve to be black to match the black tree trunks.

    I do not remember the name of the moth or of the trees. If you need a citation, I could look for one tonight, but I need to read several days of papers. I am a scientist, so I’m not just blowing smoke.

  143. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    PC, thats interspecies adaptation, not evolution. If the moths had instead turned into lizards or such, then that would have been an example of evolution.

  144. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    crunchie
    You are so right. I should know better. Please shoot me now! I bet you are a wonderful shot.

  145. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    PC
    I am a wonderful shot, my chosen professions kind of demand it. But I don’t shoot friends (unless they really piss me off, and I bought him a beer afterwards), especially when they are so close to conversion. ;-)

  146. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    OK, enough is E-fuckin’-NOUGH!

    If people can’t argue without resorting entirely to personal insults, then either agree to disagree or CAN it.

    I DO have limits, you know.

    Damn!

    And no, I don’t want to hear about it. Just chill, shake hands and let it rest already and that’ll be the end of it. As a personal favor to me.

  147. Xystus Comment by Xystus

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    Uhh–the peppered moth more recently appeared in works (like Icons of Evolution–no, I haven’t read it) questioning some popular ostensible examples. Seems it does not perch on the trunks of trees, but photos showing just that were faked with dead specimens–which may say more about some scientists than about science.

  148. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Xystus
    I really hope you are joking, but have the feeling you aren;t :(

  149. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    I really hope you are joking, but have the feeling you aren;t :(

    He isn’t. It’s one of the more famous examples of poor science. The peppered moth tends to perch on the underside of horizontal branches AND, more importantly, studies didn’t find a clear correlation between pollution (darkening of birch trunks) and the distribution of dark (melanic) vs. “light” (typical) moths, not surprisingly since they didn’t perch on birch trunks to begin with.

    The more scandalous parts of Kettlewell’s “research” was his pinning/gluing of dead moths to tree trunks, which discredited him personally as a scientist. The actual science in his studies was discredited by the lack of correlation between pollution and the color of the moths, the central thesis in his work.

    However, and this is important in my opinion, none of this has any relevance to the debate about evolution vs. creation since, even if his study had been absolutely unimpeachable, it wouldn’t have proven evolution in any way. What it would have proven and what the differences in distribution between melanic and typical moths DOES prove regardless of Kettlewell’s work, is that intraspecies variations exist due to natural selection, something that no serious creationist denies.

    To be relevant to the evolution debate, the moths would have had to change into a different species altogether yet, at the end of the day, they remain peppered moths no matter what their color is. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that Kettlewell wasn’t interested in evolution in the first place, his theory was about the effect of pollution on species.

    For examples of overzealous evolutionists deliberately trying to falsify information to fit their theory, Ernst Haeckel’s fake drawings of embryos is a much better one.

    Still, and as a creationist I cannot stress this enough, this does not disprove evolution, it just proves that Ernst Haeckel was more interested in his personal hobby horse than science.

    It’s an important distinction to make if you’re to remain intellectually honest, in my opinion. Just because a proponent of a particular conjecture such as evolution is shown to be a lying hack doesn’t mean that the conjecture itself has been proven wrong, it just means that whatever “evidence” that the hack has produced can be safely disregarded by sentient beings. For a conjecture itself to fail, you’d have to disprove it itself by showing it to be impossible, and I can no more, at this point, conclusively disprove Darwin’s hypothesis than I can conclusively prove intelligent design, so both remain viable as far as I’m concerned.

    I’m just choosing the one that I consider more likely to be true.

  150. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Emporer Misha
    Thank you for usually thorough post (no–I’m not being a suck-up). It just disturbs me that I did not know this was a fraud–lapse in my education. Although my expertise is not in evolution. I was thinking it had involved into a new species. I actually will look into this some more, but not tonight.

    It’s funny–my marriage is suffering some from my time on this blog. Apparently, I’ve become more argumentative!

  151. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    cool MSM article

    The LA Times has a piece on the Anbar Province and how the Sunnis that had partnered with Al Queda have turned on them and are helping to destroy them in that province. The number of murders has fallen dramatically. Happy, happy, joy, joy

  152. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    “Apparently, I’ve become more argumentative!”

    -I’m not complaining about the situation–I think it’s hilarious

  153. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    I hesitate to respond to you, because I don’t do well with invective.

    Hon, I’ve read enough of your writings here to know a bit of your mindset.  I don’t waste the invective on those who honestly try to understand my side of the issue and just wanna talk.

    The invective goes to the morons who think they’re superior to me in some way, shape or form, and don’t mind letting me know it.  It’s the arrogance that raises my hackles.

    And I defer to Crunchie on the moths - it’s precisely what I would’ve said.

    Apparently, I’ve become more argumentative!

    Ahhhhhh - first steps towards The Dark Side™…

  154. WayneB Comment by WayneB

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    Fanusi - As an agnostic, I have no religious dog in the question of gays in the military. However, I don’t believe they should be in the front-line military for a practical reason, one which you may or may not think is an indication that people are hopelessly primitive. I am against women in front-line military for a related reason.

    Many men are uncomfortable around gays, and really get thrown off by being concerned about unwanted advances by them. This is deadly in combat situations. It may be foolish, but it is simple fact. Women, of course, distract men for another reason entirely, but it’s just as deadly.

    Now, would I be in favor of gays and women in support roles in the Military? Sure, because they would free up more men to be available for combat purposes, and if you’re not in a situation where a split-second’s hesitation can be fatal, distractions can be tolerated.

    Regarding evolution - I really don’t understand why so many people count Creation and Evolution as diametrically opposed to each other except that many people (on both sides of the debate) have to view the Bible as completely Literal, rather than metaphorical. This leads to beliefs such as the one that all fossils were created in the Great Flood. I can tell you right now, that all life in the oceans during any given century would not create all the limestone sitting under my home state of Kentucky.

    If, however, you view the Bible as metaphorical, and place creation far enough back in time to match up with Cosmology, then the Creator becomes one who designed, constructed, and set in motion a Universe which was capable of moving forward and building all the complexity, including life in all its forms (through Evolution, though the Beginning of Life may have had to be seeded), up to and through today. In my personal opinion, this would be even more amazing than a literal interpretation would.

    Your mileage may vary.

  155. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    I am going to ignore Spatula’s comments, for obvious reasons.

    Chief among which is that you can’t refute any of it.

    Sucks to have your ass handed to you, doesn’t it?

    Firstly, the Bible is a vast and vague book, and half of it is at war with the other half

    Yes, I do believe that\’s one of the things on which you just had your ass whipped.  Lotta good “reason” did you there, Einstein.

    Secondly, it is not considered the Word of God.

    And this  is why I consider you to be a dumb-assed son-of-a-bitch.  You know as much about God’s Word as you do about Christianity - which is to say, ZeroZilchNada™.

    Do us all a favor and get off your intellectual high horse, snotwit.  And hurry up with that definition of Christianity of yours, fuckhead - I don’t have all day.

    Point two, abourt religion splitting our ranks, you can see that here in the form of Spatula, who has rather nicely declared that B.C. is on the same line as Mao and the rest of the communist scum.

    I correctly  point out the similarities between all of them (not to mention you, as well), and you get your panties in a wad.

    Truth hurts, doesn’t it, suckweed?

    And here we have someone warning about the twin threats of Islam and, wait for it, atheism. Of course, because Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris are exactly like Zawahiri et al.

    There you go again, comparing us to Islamonazi apologists.

    You’re real brave hiding behind your daddy’s skirt over there across the pond while tossing to Pee Wee Herman, aren’t you, chickenshit?  Wonder how you’d fare actually saying that to someone’s face?

    Fucking pussy.

    UPDATE:  Hmmm, might have been a little quick to criticize there.  Seems Dawkins & Harris are on your  side, which would make the comparison somewhat apt.  All three - Dawkins, Harris and Zawhiri - are hostile towards Christianity.

    On the other hand, you have  compared me  to a raghead apologist, so the chickenshit accusation stands.