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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » A Moment of Shameful, Pragmatic Egotism…
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OK, people, it’s time to end the war and pull out, for one simple reason:

As long as it keeps up, .308 NATO will remain ridiculously expensive because the war is sucking up all the sweet, cheap mil-surp reserves that we used to enjoy, AND I JUST WON’T STAND FOR IT!

I mean, people, I have a very nice rifle that craves the sweet, mil-spec 7.62×51 NATO ammunition, and I just can’t stand starving her anymore. Find some other damn caliber to waste shiiteheads with or let them kill each other off, because 30-year-old ammo at >50 cents a pop (if you can find it at all, and trust me, I’ve looked high and low) is just downright ridiculous.

And to the hoarders out there making a profit off of the shortage by selling your cheaply acquired existing stores off with a ridiculous markup, be careful that we don’t give your overpriced ammo right back to you.

At 2,800 fps.

Thatisall.

117 Responses to “A Moment of Shameful, Pragmatic Egotism…”
  1. Mike M Comment by Mike M

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    As an M1A owner, let me just say that I too feel the pain. It’s mitigated somewhat by frequent and liberal profuse exercises with my Mini-14 “poodle shooter”, but still…

  2. akornzombie Comment by akornzombie

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    I share your pain, Emperor. ‘Course, it could be worse. You could be using a .303…..

  3. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

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    Not being an “expert” on guns (I can shoot the nards off a gnat from quite a distance, but don’t know the ins & outs of all the minutiae of their inner workings & such.), would it be physically & fiscally possible to start re-loading your own .308 rounds?

  4. The Major Comment by The Major

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    Sounds like a Dillon Progressive Reloading press may be in your future! Lots of spent brass out there and FMJ bullets can be bought cheap in bulk. Fearless Leader could save plenty!

    Having lived in the socialist “third world” state for nearly six years, I am finally returning to the heartland of America this summer where I will resume my love affairs with hunting, shooting and reloading. Nothing more relaxing than cranking out several hundred rounds of ammo for an AR-15, or handcrafting 60 precision .300 WinMag rounds for taking out Bambi! Highly recommend it!

  5. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

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    Major
    Misha’s mentioned that he doesn’t tinker with his rounds,, what with the Heirs, the Site and She Who Contains the Chaos competing for attention,,we can understand.
    His choice of calibers all have single primer ports under the caps, so, if there’s somethin’ needs a special formula,,No doubt he’ll have it.
    ‘Need’s only ask.

    Btw Major
    ‘Got any big bore dies clutterin’ your bench?

  6. MasterGuns, Imperial Marine Comment by MasterGuns, Imperial Marine

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    Roll your own like I do.

    Semper Fi

  7. MasterGuns, Imperial Marine Comment by MasterGuns, Imperial Marine

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    BTW…….I still use a rather ancient “rock crusher”. I’ve had it for 30 years or so.

    Semper Fi

  8. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Sounds like a Dillon Progressive Reloading press may be in your future! Lots of spent brass out there and FMJ bullets can be bought cheap in bulk. Fearless Leader could save plenty!

    Oh, I wish!

    Unfortunately, time and space constraints make that an nonviable option, not to mention that the quirks of German design tend to mutilate the brass a bit, but such is the price one pays for flawless reliability and utter indestructibility.

  9. DUTCH Comment by DUTCH

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    Keep an eye on this website. 150 grain Russian Wolf is $249/1000 rounds and US NATO Lake City is $350/1000 rounds; and those prices include shipping.

    http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

    Both are currently out of stock, but more is supposed to be on the way. He maintains an email list that keeps people up to date when he gets new stock.

  10. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    The fluted chamber is a pain in the ass. It is the only real problem with the HK, and this isn’t a problem unless one reloads.

  11. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Keep an eye on this website. 150 grain Russian Wolf is $249/1000 rounds and US NATO Lake City is $350/1000 rounds; and those prices include shipping.

    http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

    Wolf is fine if you don’t mind the steel casings significantly reducing the lifetime of your equipment (extractors in particular), but the Lake City is Good Stuff.

    Unfortunately, I’ve yet to see him have anything in stock of anything worth having (it’s always “more coming soon” with “soon” meaning “around the 32nd of Never or around the entropy death of the Sun, whichever comes first”), and I’ve visited his site a LOT and often too. Perhaps I should try that email list of his. Can’t hurt.

  12. The Major Comment by The Major

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    Cheapshot911 - I put all my reloadin’ stuff into storage 6 years ago - 4700 miles from where I live now. We will be reunited forever in mid July. Honestly, I’m not sure what I kept besides thousands of assorted brass casings and a fake Bambi for archery practice. For deer, I shoot either .308 Win or .300 WinMag. I also have a .375 H&H I’m thinking of using for deer with a light-loaded 215-235gr bullet.

    For pistol I shoot 9mm, 40S&W, 10mm Auto, .38 Special/.357 Mag, .44 Mag and .45 ACP. I have a little .380, but I have no desire to reload for it. I might use the 10mm or .44 Mag to take a deer this fall.

    After a six-year dry spell, I’m feeling almost giddy!

  13. Unregistered Comment by LC Elchonon, Imperial Chief of Civil Disobedience

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    I buy winchester 100 rounds .45acp at walmart for 26$, i’d buy 1000 rounds for 150 if I ever got around to it.

  14. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    OK guys,

    I know jackshit about ammo, but I actually have a question about it. Condors have been re-introduced into the wild–GIGANTIC birds that are ancient vultures and live on carrion. From what I’ve read, a bullet in a deer can fragment into 100 pieces of lead, which isn’t great for people either. The birds keep ending up with lead poisoning from eating the carcasses left behind from hunters. Now other types of ammo besides lead are being used in these areas. Would that have a detrimental effect on hunting? There was a comment about brass on the list.

  15. Dick Comment by Dick

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    From what I’ve read, a bullet in a deer can fragment into 100 pieces of lead, which isn’t great for people either.

    The key word in that sentence was “can”. Two or three maybe, but a hundred? Ummm…. No.

    The birds keep ending up with lead poisoning from eating the carcasses left behind from hunters.

    I’d be willing to bet that’s rarer than winning the lottery.

    Now other types of ammo besides lead are being used in these areas.

    Pretty much just copper.

    Would that have a detrimental effect on hunting?

    Slim and none.
    Where do you come up with this nonsense?

  16. Unregistered Comment by jefferson101

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    Please, Sir!

    Quit trying to buy it. Start rolling your own.

    When ammo for my L1A1, Ishapore Enfield, and the two 98/61 Chilean Mausers rebarreled and rechambered for .308 (Or 7.62×51 NATO, but I’m American enough to still refer to it as .308 NATO.) went over about $.15/round, I got dies, a press, and started rolling my own.

    The real up side of that is that you can buy pulled AP (Black Tip) and Tracer (Orange Tip) bullets on the open market and load for yourself.

    If you think a half buck a round is bad, try buying that stuff loaded. Heh.

    $0.10/round for the bullets.

    Stock primers, powder, and bullets, and I don’t care what loaded ammo costs. I make mine for less than $.020/round, with milspec components.

    A mans gotta do what a mans got to do, right? But it’s a whole lot cheaper if you can build your own. And you will still be able to get components when they are trying to tax loaded ammo off the market, IMO….Unless you already own enough for 50k rounds or so.

    Heh.

  17. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    Dick

    Where do you come up with this nonsense?

    If I recall, the California Second Amendment Society website had an article on this a while back. Yes, they are trying to ban lead core bullets for big game hunting in the land of fruits and nuts. The official excuse is this “lead poisoning of the California Condor” deal, but I have so far seen no evidence to support that it does actually happen.

    psychochick

    Just for reference, bullets used for hunting big game, (deer, wild pigs, etc.), are designed to remain more or less intact on penetration. Only bullets designed for varmint hunting are intended to actually “fragment into hundreds of pieces” on impact.

    The reason for this is that it takes a minimum amount of penetration to reliably kill a large game animal. (generally ten to sixteen inches), and bullet that fragments excessively will only tend to penetrate half of that distance or less. This leads to what are called “surface wounds”, which are generally followed by a long hike tracking a blood trail across the hills and dales until the animal is found. Typically speaking, such large pieces are excreted from the digestive tract intact, leaving little trace behind in the bloodstream.

    (Just for reference, I have some personal experience with lead in the body, due to my weekend job. Hopefully, I won’t have to follow a chelation routine to bring the levels down…)

    Now, I will grant that it is possible for some asshole to use the wrong hardware for what they are hunting, and try to kill a large animal with a varmint bullet. However, I doubt the likelihood of sufficient lead consumption from these sources.

    What I would suspect is that this is a case of lies, damned lies, and statistics. A bird was found suffering from heavy metal poisoning in an area that had a census of, perhaps, twenty birds. This would amount to five percent of the population showing heavy metal poisoning, correct? A second bird is found in another area, one with a population of fifteen or so. This giving us a population of seven percent poisoned.

    Lead is an environmental poison, as are arsenic and other heavy metals. One of the things that we were first told in desert survival is that if there are no bugs swimming in any water we found, that it would kill us. (If bugs can’t live on it, you can’t either!) There are numbers of abandoned mines in wilderness areas of the Southwest. There are also natural seeps which are heavily contaminated with lead, mercury, arsenic, and other heavy metals. Bird habitually drinks water from a polluted waterhole or stream, possibly after dilution from other unpolluted sources, bird had lead poisoning.

    Easiest thing to do? Blame it on the evil hunters.

  18. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    On the other hand, I could be full of shit. ^shrug^

  19. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    And, Boss? Believe me when I say that I feel your pain. (At least an FAL is kinder to the brass than an HK, however…)

  20. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Psychocick,

    A very large private hunting club in CA (800,000 acres) just went to non-lead. This is a joke, but the econazis have pushed some really stupid shit on hunters. Some light high velocity bullets explode (for want of a better term) and leave many pieces of the bullet in the target. Lead shot is a catspaw to control firearms. I will say the tungsten matrix shot is hot shit, if expensive, but absolutely incredible compared to the steel waterfowl loads. An alternative to lead is depleted uranium. It’s great, except for the price. Most lead is harmless until solvent. That does not happen in most scenarios. My shooting club has to do tests on water coming off the property. It is not a worry, but a burden. No, we are not poisoning the planet.

  21. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Please, Sir!

    Quit trying to buy it. Start rolling your own.

    I’d love to, my friend, but right now it’s just not an option for me. Trust me, if it were I’d start reloading tomorrow. Few things would please me more than to get out from under the thumb of price gougers and, more importantly, the Evil Fed’ral Gummint Arseholes.

    And one day, G-d willing, I will. But until then, I still have to feed the arsenal and keep my skills going. Use ‘em or lose ‘em, you know.

  22. Mike Zeares Comment by Mike Zeares

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    This is the part of psychochick’s post that really set off my bullshit detector:

    The birds keep ending up with lead poisoning from eating the carcasses left behind from hunters.

    Have any of you ever known a hunter who just shot a deer and left it to rot? I’m from Pennsylvania and live in Texas, two huge deer hunting states (especially PA — it’s practically the state religion). I’ve never heard of anyone doing such a thing. Except in anti-hunting/anti-gun screeds, which usually portray hunters as a bunch of drunk rednecks shooting deer out one side of their pick-ups while they toss beer cans out the other. Anyway, bringing back the meat is a large part of the point.

  23. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    Anyway, bringing back the meat is a large part of the point.

    If M were to go out deer hunting and shoot one..and NOT bring back the meat…I’d have HIS head mounted and hung on the wall.

    This leads to what are called “surface wounds”, which are generally followed by a long hike tracking a blood trail across the hills and dales until the animal is found.

    PC…the only reason a deer carcass would be left to rot would be that the hunter was not able to locate it after shooting it. As Guido mentioned, hunters typically use bullets that will drop an animal where it stands or very shortly thereafter to prevent them having to hike long distances and stand a chance of not being able to find and recover the animal. I know that the media likes to paint hunters as beer swigging, tobacco spitting Neanderthals that have no respect for nature and fair sportsmanship, but I would say that 99% of hunters are even more aware of their impact on the environment and do what they should to lessen any adverse reactions than most “Environmentalist” Greenie Weenie every thought to do.

  24. The Major Comment by The Major

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    Psychochick - The anti-hunting left is always cooking up nonsense. Deer hunters and bullet manufacturers WANT their bullets to stay intact - what we call “weight retention.” It helps us quickly and humanely kill the animal. Most of the time (in my experience) I’m not able to recover the bullet because it passes through the body. The few times I’ve had fragmentation were due to bullet impacting a large bone. Even so, it is easy to locate lead in venison - no harm to me and my family - and little if any is left in the environment in contaminated carrion because there is so little in a bullet to start with and most hunters I know process the carcass at camp or home - no harm to the Condors.

  25. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Thanks guys–was looking for feedback and info. Not disappointed!

    Within the past few years, about 15 have died, and they’ve done chelation therapy on 75 birds (in Cal and Arizona). The lead does not just come from carcasses–it can come from gut piles. Also, they pick out bone and have a tendency to pick out cartridges instead.

    Mike
    That did seem a little odd to me. I don’t know a lot about hunting, which is why I asked!! It was my understanding that sometimes an animal is injured and runs off somewhere and then dies. Although from what is said here, there would be a blood trail to follow. However, people leave gut piles all the time, don’t they?

    Guido
    Thanks. I didn’t know very much about bullets penetrating deer. That’s helpful to know.

    Dick
    “Where do you come up with this nonsense?”

    It’s common knowledge out here. It’s not like I make stuff up or live in an alternate reality (oh wait–must adjust the tin foil). I am a biologist, so I would follow things like this. I need to be pretty scrupulous about what I say on this site, being in the minority.

  26. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Mrs. M
    I wasn’t at all ragging on hunters! I just wanted to know how easy it would be to hunt with non-lead bullets. I had absolutely no idea and was curious. The ammo thread seemed like a good place to post an ammo question.

  27. Unregistered Comment by LC Elchonon, Imperial Chief of Civil Disobedience

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    PC,
    When you say “common knowledge out here” that means its a BS rumor no offense to you..

    Lots of hunters have dogs that will go out and track the body, maybe people hunt for fun, but they also eat the food.. who wants to sort out the supposed “100 pieces of lead”

  28. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    5.56 is getting pretty expensive too, at least compared to what it used to be, as is 9mm (you should what that’s done to our training budget).

    I looked at it pragmatically and bit the bullet (pun intended) and just figured it’s a small price to pay to help the war effort.

  29. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Elchonon
    Common knowledge to me means heavy newspaper and tv news coverage, not rumors from the neighbors.

    I believe that the fragmentation thing is not correct. I read that once. However, I have read quite a bit about the lead issue. That is absolutely not BS and comes from the scientists involved with the birds.

    I guess the question is if people almost always get their kills, how much lead would be in a gut pile? Plus people might be shooting coyotes for fun. Those carcasses would get left behind. Just an idea–no evidence for it.

  30. Unregistered Comment by LC Elchonon, Imperial Chief of Civil Disobedience

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    PC,
    Youi mean the same scientists rambling about global worming?

  31. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    I guess the question is if people almost always get their kills, how much lead would be in a gut pile?

    Next to none PC. The bullets just don’t leave lead behind. Most go through and through, and if they don’t the slug would still be intact.
    Unless a bunch of Civil War soldiers routinely time travel and hunt in yer neck of the woods, the lead poisoning is not coming from hunters.

    Common knowledge to me means heavy newspaper and tv news coverage, not rumors from the neighbors.

    Sorry, but the media are nowhere near being a reliable source on anything having to do with firearms or hunting. And I’ll leave the bias out of the equation, their sheer ignorance of anything at all having to do with guns is enough to call BS on the whole issue.

    Are the birds being poisoned by lead? I don’t know. Have no clue. Will have to take your word for it.

    Is the cause bullets and lead poisoning from carcases left by hunters? No way in hell.

  32. Grits Comment by Grits

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    Oh great Emperor, if you are fortunate enough to locate some .308 at a reasonable price, please shoot the prick that is buying up all the 25 round .308 magazines.

    Grits

  33. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Is the cause bullets and lead poisoning from carcases left by hunters? No way in hell.

    If that’d been the case, there’d not have been a living carnivorous critter left in Europe after WWI and WWII. Leaden carcasses as far as the eye could see.

    I mean, seriously: A couple of dead animals shot by hunters causing widespread lead poisoning in birds?

    There’d not be a single feathered bugger left anywhere near the Somme or Passchendaele.

  34. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Oh great Emperor, if you are fortunate enough to locate some .308 at a reasonable price, please shoot the prick that is buying up all the 25 round .308 magazines.

    Grits

    It’ll be my pleasure, Grits.

  35. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    Lead was a problem in Britain, with swans, because of them eating discarded lead sinkers for their gizzards.

    Never heard of the problem for condors. I would expect (and this is out of my ass) that fragmentation isn’t the problem some are making it out to be, but that large amounts of birdshot could be.

    However, is it a problem for condors? I don’t know.

    What google shows:

    Lead poisoning is a major factor limiting the success of efforts to rebuild populations of the endangered California condor. Since the mid-1980s, condors have been bred in captivity and released back into the wild in California, Arizona, and Baja California. The birds, which feed on carrion, can ingest lead from ammunition in animal carcasses or gut piles left behind by hunters.

    The UCSC researchers used a “fingerprinting” technique based on the unique isotope ratios found in different sources of lead. The technique enabled them to match the lead in blood samples from condors to the lead in ammunition. Their findings were published online today by the journal Environmental Science & Technology.

    link here

    http://www.cbse.ucsc.edu/news/2006/08/31/condor/index.shtml

    and another

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-23-condor_x.htm

    Discussion?

    I expect that there is some contamination, but I find it interesting that they are consistently sourcing the data from captive bred animals- perhaps they are more socialized to humans, or less capable scavengers?

    You’d expect the wild condors to be well dead from lead poisoning, what with their constant exposure and all….. or maybe they know something the captive bred animals don’t.

    Survival of the fittest and all that

  36. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Plus people might be shooting coyotes for fun.

    Yeah, and pest control. Coyotes can be damned destructive to a farm and his livestock. But most varmint hunters I know or have read of, skin the carcass for the pelt, they don’t just leave it to rot. Even if they did, it all goes back to what the bullet does inside the body. Their will be next to no lead left in any part of the carcass left behind. Even the slug itself, if it did manage to stay inside the body, will be intact and I don’t see a condor gulping down a lead slug as he’s stripping the meat of off a carcass. A condor would have to eat a hell of a lot of coyote carcass shot by those damned time traveling Civil War soldiers to get lead poisoning.

    Betcha those time travelers are damned yankees too!

  37. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    People, there are many types of bullets. There are fast light weight varmint types that fall apart if they hit anything. There are hunting rounds that will penetrate from ass to eyeball. Most hunters know the difference. My favorites are Nosler Accu-Bond, or partitions. These are amazing.

  38. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Betcha those time travelers are damned yankees too!

    Not a chance. Damnyankees can’t hit for shit.

  39. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    WTF? lost my comment? Or spam-eaten?

  40. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    I think my last comment was spam-munched. If this is double, I apologize.

    Lead was a problem in Britain, with swans, because of them eating discarded lead sinkers for their gizzards.

    Never heard of the problem for condors. I would expect (and this is out of my ass) that fragmentation isn’t the problem some are making it out to be, but that large amounts of birdshot could be.

    However, is it a problem for condors? I don’t know.

    What google shows:

    Lead poisoning is a major factor limiting the success of efforts to rebuild populations of the endangered California condor. Since the mid-1980s, condors have been bred in captivity and released back into the wild in California, Arizona, and Baja California. The birds, which feed on carrion, can ingest lead from ammunition in animal carcasses or gut piles left behind by hunters.

    The UCSC researchers used a “fingerprinting” technique based on the unique isotope ratios found in different sources of lead. The technique enabled them to match the lead in blood samples from condors to the lead in ammunition. Their findings were published online today by the journal Environmental Science & Technology.

    link here

    http://www.cbse.ucsc.edu/news/2006/08/31/condor/index.shtml

    and another

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-23-condor_x.htm

    Discussion?

    I expect that there is some contamination, but I find it interesting that they are consistently sourcing the data from captive bred animals- perhaps they are more socialized to humans, or less capable scavengers?

    You’d expect the wild condors to be well dead from lead poisoning, what with their constant exposure and all….. or maybe they know something the captive bred animals don’t.

    Survival of the fittest and all that

  41. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Hey Crunchie,

    I shoot coyotes with a .243 and a 85 gr Sierra hollow point. These are good to 600 yds and break up, lessening the chance of some mom taking one between the eyes at a mile, or so. For shooting varmints, fast frangible bullets are the ticket. I get really annoyed with guys who use heavy long range stuff that will skip into the next county.

  42. Unregistered Comment by NoisyRoom.net

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    Please note that the light rifle wussies among us who shoot the completely nadless 5.56 NATO (.223 Rem for you civilians) round are in similar straights… Having to turn to remanufacturing channels to get below 25 cents per round. We feel your pain… Although maybe not quite so much pain because our inflation is a mere 35 cents per round here in Nevada. Fortunately, we have a little bit of everything in the arms department over here.

    Terresa Monroe-Hamilton
    NoisyRoom.net

  43. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Misha,

    I met Lyudmilla at Mustang Ranch. Damn Yankees can shoot! Well, some of us can.

  44. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Misha,

    I met Lyudmilla at Mustang Ranch. Damn Yankees can shoot! Well, some of us can.

    LOL. Touche.

    I was referring to Civil War Era damnyankees. You’ve come a long way since then :)

  45. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Mark6591

    Haven’t got a whole lot of coyote huntin’ experience myself (not a whole lot meaning none), but from what I’ve read and been told, it seems .223 and .243 are the ideal calibers to use. Have heard of some pretty amazing long distance accuracy on prairie dogs from some of the same guys.

    Where ya hunt?

  46. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Damnyankees can’t hit for shit.

    :lol:

  47. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Seagoon makes a good point. Large amounts of birdshot pellets could be a problem. Question is where would the condors be consuming it from. I guess only if there a lot of “winged” foul that fly off and die somewhere and the condors get em.

    Is bird hunting even very popular in Kalifornia, Peoples Republic of,?

  48. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    thanks for salvaging my comment from the gaping maw of the spam killer.

    Please feel free to delete the duplicate

  49. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    Just did a little more peeking, and it seems that the problem is pellets in the gizzard, not bullet fragments.

    More ignorance in the media about terminology.

    It also mentioned that condors were found with

    glass & plastic shards, poptops, bone, bark, leaves and other similar debris

    link

    We are happy to report that condor #12 (AC-8) is back to her old self, thanks to the magnificent work of the Los Angeles Zoo veterinarians and keepers. The lead pellets were finally passed out of her system and her lead g/dl dropped to a safe level. Preliminary observations suggest that the pieces are from a lead bullet, and chelation treatment was administered immediately. After spending approximately 6 weeks at the zoo, she passed all contaminated fragments from her system and reached an acceptable level of health.She began eating again on her own and her weight is back up to over 18 lbs. She was released at the end of December after a harrowing and difficult long month for her.

    same page, scroll down for picture. They say ‘fragments’ but show pellets.

  50. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    another munched comment. Spam killer not like links, or what?

    Anyway, when it surfaces, scroll to the bottom to see the X-ray of a condor’s gizzard containing bottlecaps, glass, and other miscellaneous crap.

    Condors eat inedible shit. Sometimes it kills them, lead or no lead.

    (also, some chicks were found dead with elevated levels of copper…. guess that’s next on the ban list)

  51. Unregistered Comment by LC Elchonon, Imperial Chief of Civil Disobedience

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    Damnyankees can’t hit for shit.

    I’m from ny.. not the greatest shot but not too bad..

  52. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Crunchie,

    I shoot Nevada, because it is relatively unpopulated and you do not need a hunting license to shoot varmints. A .223 is fun, but a 6mm/.243 will tear its ass at long range. I shoot a 6 BR at 600 yards in competition, and it smokes the others. I am using a long range Sierra 107 gr that is cool, but a dipshit thing to use hunting.

    Bird hunting in Kaliforniastan is huge fun. I shot about 150 pheasant on my club last season. It doesn’t get any better than that, watching your dog work, and shooting the birds he flushes. The retreive is a wonder to watch. Put an image of a Chesapeake Bay Retriever on my headstone.

  53. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    crunchie
    “Is bird hunting even very popular in Kalifornia, Peoples Republic of,?”

    1) there really are a lot of conservatives in this state.
    2) I do know that bird hunting is really popular out here: those adorable quail with the crests on their heads, something called a chukara? and others that I don’t remember. I do actually know some hunters who go bird hunting all the time

    seagoon
    there is a problem with the captive-bred condors being used to people. there have been some power-line incidents. I think people wear hoods when they deal with the birds now, so they don’t get imprinted on humans.

    Elchonon
    “Youi mean the same scientists rambling about global worming?”

    -well if they were studying global warming, they wouldn’t be studying birds, now would they?

    -so, not believing the current model of global warming means that no science is believable?

    Can we kill this topic? I appreciate the comments–it’s been very informative.

  54. Unregistered Comment by tailgunnerjoe

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    Strange that no one has mentioned varmint hunting with the exception of the coyote side reference.

    The mortal remains of a varmint shot with a varmint bullet would most likely contain some of the bullet fragments. Condors are scavengers, like buzzards. So the varmint bits and pieces are food for them both.

    Question: Since the varmint remains are food for both condor and buzzard, why isn’t anyone complaining about lead-poisoned buzzards?

    For psychochick: Varmint bullets disintegrate totally when they hit anything. They are designed that way so that they do not ricochet. Small furry animals that are struck by varmint bullets usually explode into chunks and bits. I have never tried to find out how much, if any, of the bullet remains in the bits and pieces.

  55. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Mark and PC

    Good to know about bird huntin’ on the left coast. Ain’t much of a fowler myself, gotta get up way too damned early and it’s way too damned cold! Deer hunting is about as early and cold as I want to get anymore. Thats why I prefer hunting pig. You can hunt them anytime of the day, although night is best, and just like your varmints in Nevada, no season and no bag limit on private land (Here in FL anyway, most other states I think too).

    Mark, do you do service rifle competition also?

  56. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Can we kill this topic? I appreciate the comments–it’s been very informative.

    Damn straight! Besides, I ain’t nearly done whining about the scarcity of ammunition for my favorite “Evil Assault Rifle.”

    It’s… un-AMERICAN, I tell you!

  57. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    Hey, PC, I agree with the science on this one- the alloys were traced to ammunition- I’m just criticizing the deduction of bullet fragments from the lead analysis.

    This is because:

    a. it’s an unsupported deduction (bad science)
    b. it’s not actually going to address the issue, if everyone is looking in the wrong place. There’s a lot of information about the danger of lead pellets to birds, who eat them like any other suitable stone for their gizzards.

    But forcing a switch to non-lead bullets for big-game hunting isn’t going to help at all.

    As for the condors, they may not be able to survive in that sort of proximity to people, period. It’s a bummer, but it’s Darwin in action. Something else will fill the niche (something always does).

  58. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Crunchie,

    I do not compete in the service rifle events. For one thing I have a 3 diopter eye correction and consequently hate iron sights on a rifle. I shoot high master on the long range courses, 600-1,000 yds. Some days the bear eats me, some days I eat him. On a Misha blessed day I shot three back to back 200’s at 600 yds. On an other 200 at 1,000, and could not sleep for a week. Good optics are a blessing.

  59. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    Can we kill this topic?

    If you insist.

    How about what happens when the Navy has too much time on it’s hands?

    Yeah it’s way OT…sue me. *snark*

  60. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    And one last reason: faulty deductions alienate people like you find here- people who are cynical about the motivations and veracity of ecological scientists. People who feel threatened without just cause.

    These are not people who wish to destroy the earth, to render uninhabitable and lifeless that which most of them value and enjoy- but they have placed a higher burden of proof upon the scientists who counsel to control them.

    Simple errors are not forgivable- and to a hunter, there is a world of difference between ‘bullet fragments in carrion’ to ‘bird eats small round things to help digestion’.

    Bear in mind that any encroachment on guns and shooting is seen as an attack on gun-ownership in general.

    I think it is fair to say that most if not all of the hunters here would use condor-friendly shot to hunt in threatened areas if they were asked nicely, and possibly offered a 1 for 1 exchange to suitable non-toxic ammunition, so they weren’t being required to foot the bill.

    Hunters?

  61. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    Ok…I have to…I simply, absolutely have to..

    Spew Warning In Effect.

  62. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Mrs M

    When the Navy has too much time on it’s hands? You’ve never been on a float have you? Nothing but time.

    Seagoon

    If it could be definitively shown that it was necessary from an ecological point of view, hunters would foot the bill. Hell, we voluntarily passed a tax on ammo to be used for conservation. If it is for actual game conservation, we don’t have a problem with most regulations. It’s the ones that have nothing at all to do with population management or general safety that girdle our loins.

    You’re comments are spot on. All we hunters demand is that anti-hunters and environmentalist’s don’t piss on our helmets and tell us it’s raining, then force us to look up to prove it.

  63. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Crunchie,

    Shooting h0gs is a kick. We can shoot them daylight hours. I have access to property where we can shoot24/7, but night shooting under a predation permit is a mixed blessing. Shooting at night is dangerous, I really do not want to pop mom doing the dishes,

  64. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Mark

    For night hunts we stab em. Hell, most hog hunters down here stab em anyways. I prefer to shoot em myself. Psychological thing, been and done stabbing, not my cup o tea anymore.

    We always get in close, bay and catch dogs, and then rassle em and stab em. I just use a 1911 with 230 gr Extreme Shock.

    Sorry to hear about your eye problem, iron sights are a blast. Personally I prefer em over optics. One time I did use a rifle on a pig hunt I was using a .300 WinMag (yeah I know, overkill, sue me) with a Barska 8-24 variable scope. The hunt was on a 10,000 acre parcel of land north of the Mikosukee reservation that had never been hunted before. The hogs were thick as fleas. It was a 3 hog quota hunt, first come first serve. I was stomping a hammock when I flushed a herd of monsters into an open field. They were running hell bent for leather for some brush about 75 yrds away. Real monsters too, there must have been five of em over 200 pds. I raised my rifle and all I saw was blades of grass! The damn scope had gotten adjusted up to 24 power in the brush! Finally got some brown and dropped a 150 pounder. Iron sights, I would have filled my ticket. I love scopes for stand hunts though.

  65. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    crunchie and seagoon

    Thanks for the comments. The question was not at all meant to criticize hunting. I actually wanted to find out how much of a pain in the ass the regulation would be for hunters and hope that it was not.

    That would really suck if I caused more alienation towards science. There really is lead in the birds. I guess where it comes from is more of an issue than I realized. The reason I posted here was that people seem to know their ammo.

    ——-
    About pigs. I have a friend who used to live in Florida. He would walk down this road at night to get home that was just crawling with alligators. He didn’t mind them so much. He was worried about the pigs!

  66. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    PC,

    You didn’t cause alienation, but the media reporting of the science (and perhaps the scientists’ report wasn’t clear- not sure on that) certainly did.

    The media have a bad habit of blowing things out of proportion to keep an increasingly jaded redership engaged.

    I’m not a hunter, but one thing I’ve learned from these guys is that if you want to talk guns, you’d better know your facts- and they hate the media for not getting their facts straight.

    I think that they’re tired of ignorant people telling them what to do- most hunters are ecologically aware, often at a level that strident eco-freaks can achieve (thus one hunter tends to have a better working knowledge of the cycle of life than a room full of PETA drones).

    You just witnessed how quickly and thoroughly they can debunk faulty reasoning- lets face it, trying to teach this lot about firearms recalls the old adage about grandmothers and sucking eggs.

    As Crunchie says, make a good case and they’ll adopt it.

    On the other hand, misrepresent the facts, face the repercussions.

  67. chuck Comment by chuck

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    As Crunchie says, make a good case and they’ll adopt it.

    As is the case with steel shot for waterfowl. The science that lead shot used in waterfowl hunting was causing poisoning of many species of birds (which from what I have read here sounds very similar to the condor problem) was laid out and was credible, so we stopped using lead shot to hunt waterfowl. Sure there where complaints (steel shot just doesn’t perform as well as lead) but we were shown the necessity and we adapted. The fact is hunters are probably the most ecologically minded group you will find. Our goal is to always have game to hunt, for us and for those who follow.

  68. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Crunchie,

    That is bad craziness. I know some Phillipino nut jobs who hunt pigs on the east San Francisco Bay with knives and spears. These guys would run them down a ravine and stick them. They wanted me to
    come with them one night and I said NFW. Hogs are mean and hard to kill. These jokers did it regularly. Hunting close with dogs means the dogs get torn up. I never liked that. I hunted pigs with a dog once. She weighed about 20 lbs and was quick as hell. I bitched about the dog getting mauled and the owner just laughed. The mut kicked the pig out of cover and I shot it. A scramble with dogs and a hog is generally a bloody mess.

    Lots of guys shoot them with a .45 at close range. Me?No thanks. Those bastards are dangerous and fast as hell.

  69. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    [correction- strident eco-freaks can’t achieve]. Sorry, feeling a little ill and having trouble proofing.

  70. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    seagoon
    I think everybody knew what you meant

    Actually, I have more respect for hunters than for people that buy their food at the grocery store.

  71. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    Probably, probably… but I’m an editor, so these blunders vex me ;)

  72. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

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    Misha

    Would this be a good time to mention I got a 520rd spam can of 7.62×51 ball for $40 cash and a $30 box of model soldiers? :)

    Worst part is, I don’t even have a rifle that shoots 7.62 NATO, it was supposed to be 7.62×54R for my “new” Mosin Nagant!

  73. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Would this be a good time to mention I got a 520rd spam can of 7.62×51 ball for $40 cash and a $30 box of model soldiers? :)

    Worst part is, I don’t even have a rifle that shoots 7.62 NATO,

    Hmmm… I wonder what we can do to help you out there. After all, storage space is a valuable commodity and I’d hate to see you waste any unless you absolutely want to.

  74. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

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    After all, storage space is a valuable commodity and I’d hate to see you waste any unless you absolutely want to.

    Well, as it’s a buddy of mine who made the mistake, I am going to see if he wants the ammo back/has the correct can, in case he just got his cases mixed up. Being as the market value for the can is about three or four times the one we discussed trading for….

  75. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    I am going to see if he wants the ammo back/has the correct can, in case he just got his cases mixed up. Being as the market value for the can is about three or four times the one we discussed trading for….

    Well, if he just wants the can back… I mean, I’m not particularly interested in that one ;)

  76. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

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    There really must be a shortage of this stuff, I was trying to identify the origins of the can via my usual gun forums and I’ve had several PM’s wanting to know how much I want for it. Makes me glad I shoot 7.62×39 and 7.62×54R.

    If it turns out to be mine, I’d trade the can for an SKS (I need a second one for a Bubba project I have in mind), finding someone local who’s willing to part with one is tough right now…..

  77. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    There really must be a shortage of this stuff,

    Are you kidding me? I’m currently in the process to see if there are any tissue matches for the Heirs among owners of 7.62 NATO. It’s not like the two little guys need two kidneys each.

  78. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

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    It’s not like the two little guys need two kidneys each.

    You might be a gun nut if…… you’d sell your childrens organs for ammo?

    Sounds like I should hold onto the stuff in case I ever give in to the FAL/H&K urge.

  79. Unregistered Comment by jbuist

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    Here’s a good explanation of why ammo prices are getting higher and hgiher.

    The war effort is only part of it.

  80. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Psychochick,

    I would look at roads as the major source of lead contamination. Some roadways are highly lead contaminated.

  81. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

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    If you spend any time in London, do the following little test:

    1) Breathe, preferably through your nose on an overcast day.

    2) Blow your nose into a disposable hanky when you get home.

    3) Notice that your discharge is both black and slightly iridescent. I used to kick around London all the time and can’t think of a day when I didn’t get a coal-tar nose, even in the rain.

    If you want a source for most of the pollution, look to cars, trucks (ever noticed the diesel exhaust plumes most commercial vehicles throw off?) industry and the power generation necessary for modern life. I doubt shooting sports and anything less than a major conflict do much to significantly harm the environment.

    Oh and Misha, the little guy with the halo sitting on my shoulder made me clue my clueless friend in on how much his spam can was worth, then arrange to get it back to him. Sometimes it sucks being honest.

  82. Unregistered Comment by LC Elchonon, Imperial Chief of Civil Disobedience

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    LC NCLivingBrit misha was actualy requesting you give him the ammo…

  83. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    the lead thing:

    once again, I’m not blaming hunters! I don’t see anything wrong with hunting deer in the wilderness (or birds). I think being able to hunt is part of the justification for having the wilderness. I was just wondering about different types of ammo.

    Thanks for the road comment. It is good to know that roads are full of lead–didn’t realize that.

  84. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Living Brit
    Maybe I should make clear that a lot of this area is protected National land. (There may be the odd house here and there). There is not the industrial pollution you get in a city. It wouldn’t seem as odd to have the lead problem if this were in the middle of a city (or even suburbs).

  85. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    NC, the lead had been isotopically fingerprinted to be mostly deriving from ammunition alloys (tho there’s a lot of lead in the environment, period- we weren’t so smart about lead contents back in the day).

    And birds do eat pebbles etc (including spent shot) for their crops), so it’s probably fair to say the lead was spread around by hunters- just unlikely in the manner that they are currently suggesting (bullet fragments).

    There is a LOT of evidence regarding lead pellets causing lead poisoning in birds.

  86. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    LC NCLivingBrit misha was actualy requesting you give him the ammo…

    Not as such, Elchonon. I have a strong feeling that, at some point after the transfer, I’d be overcome by a sudden and completely unrelated urge to send NCLivingBrit a nice, big wad of a cash present that might just coincidentally match what would be considered a fair price if some hypothetical individual were to have, hypothetically, purchased it from him.

    But he’s a good capitalist and and honest man, Bless his heart, so I couldn’t entangle him with my wily schemes.

    Free market, baby. I love it!

  87. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Mark

    That is bad craziness.

    Yup, half the fun.

    Hogs are mean and hard to kill.

    See above.

    Hunting close with dogs means the dogs get torn up. I never liked that. I hunted pigs with a dog once. She weighed about 20 lbs and was quick as hell. I bitched about the dog getting mauled and the owner just laughed. The mut kicked the pig out of cover and I shot it. A scramble with dogs and a hog is generally a bloody mess.

    Yes thats very true, but the dogs absolutely love it. They are living the dream most domesticated dogs only wet dream about. They do get mauled occasionally, but the recuperative powers of a pig dog are nothing short of amazing.

    Lots of guys shoot them with a .45 at close range. Me?No thanks. Those bastards are dangerous and fast as hell.

    Again, see my first line. :-)

  88. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    jbuist

    Thanks for the link. $40,000 for commercial grade rifle ammo line huh? Hmmm… *If I raid the girls’ piggybanks…*

  89. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    crunchie
    not to be all psycho or anything. Would that be a good investment?

  90. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    Would that be a good investment?

    It all depends lass, it just all depends…

  91. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    Wolf is fine if you don’t mind the steel casings significantly reducing the lifetime of your equipment (extractors in particular)

    Actually, Emperor, a good deal less than you might imagine. Steel cases are usually annealed mild steel, which isn’t all that much more abrasive than brass. It’s probably a good idea to hit the extractor with an extra drop of oil now and again, but the issue isn’t half of what it’s made to be. (Bear in mind that millions of rounds of steel cased .45 and M1 Carbine ammo were fired in WWII without reliability issues.)

    Brass is “better” for two main reasons: Brass is ductile, obturating the breech completely during firing and has little friction against steel, facilitating loading and extraction. (It’s also easier to extrude during manufacturing.)

    Side note: In the H&K design in particular the extractor functions primarily to extract live rounds and to hold spent cases in proper position for the ejector to function. When fired, the case head functions like a tappet to overcome bolt and carrier inertia and disengage the rollers. Residual recoil, assisted by a tiny bit of blow-by in the chamber flutes, provides for certain extraction — a whole lot more elegant than having a claw yank a hot, expanded piece of brass from a dirty chamber.

    (Another reason to like the design.)

    As to reloading: They’re slow and somewhat primitive (not unlike me), but I spent many hours in my teenage years with a Lee Loader on the floor of my bedroom, punching out .44 Mags for my (lamentably sold) Ruger Super Blackhawk “Old Model.” The things are cheap and they take up no space to speak of. You’ll have to research whether they’ll work with H&K brass, however, as they neck size only.

    Regardless, save your Boxer primed empties for a rainy day. Most shooters can get 4-5 reloads from a fluted chamber. (And these days, even Berdan brass is worth something.)

  92. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Just dreamin PC.

  93. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Good points, Moriarty, and excellent links. I may just have to reconsider the Wolf ammo. Yeah, it’s a bit “dirtier” than other ammo, but HKs and their sisters laugh at dirt, laugh with a scornful, deep Teuton timbre. Besides, since one will be cleaning anyways, one might as well get some results for one’s trouble.

    As a complete aside, the issue of dirt reminds me of one of the more pathetic excuses I ever heard for the lack of a hold-open-on-empty on the HK. Allegedly, it was to protect the action from dirt. Pshaw. For one thing, what kind of soldier would leave his action open for longer than it takes to slap in another magazine? And, again, what does an HK care about dirt in the first place? It grinds it to dust without as much as noticing it was there in the first place. They either forgot to include a hold-open in the design or didn’t want to and, being Germans, refused to admit it. I don’t mind personally, we drilled counting and obsessive tactical reloading to the point where I can’t honestly remember having heard the dreaded *click* once, but it is an omission, I’ll have to give the critics that.

    Not that I care. The rest of the design more than makes up for it. Nothing short of a nuke will destroy a G3, and I’m not exaggerating when I say that gunsmith was a boring job indeed back then (I wasn’t one, but I knew a few). By all means, get a spare parts kit, every rifle should have at least one, just don’t ever expect to have to use it for anything. Unless you don’t have one. Murphy will NOT be denied if you tempt him.

    That Lee Loader looks like fun. Will the neck sizer take care of the trademark “HK Neck Dent” that brass gets when ejected?

  94. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    goddamit guys (and gals)–you’re starting to make it seem like it’s a lot of fun to have guns!

  95. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    you’re starting to make it seem like it’s a lot of fun to have guns!

    If it weren’t…none of us would go to the range, or spend all that money on practice ammo. We could save ourselves a hell of alot of money if we didn’t like it so much.

  96. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    Emperor,

    I heard the same story about the lack of a hold-open. Apparently it was some Bundeswehr requirement or some such nonsense. The other angle is that it made the design slightly simpler, with even less to go wrong/break/repair.

    A Lee Loader *should* work on flaring the case neck without problems, but I’d still ask around.

    goddamit guys (and gals)–you’re starting to make it seem like it’s a lot of fun to have guns!

    You speak strangely, O newcomer. ;-)

    Name another hobby that combines engineering, metallurgy, woodworking, aesthetics, shiny things, physics, aerodynamics, optics, loud noises, ballistics, chemistry, the smell of powder smoke, human factors and a capability that freaking Thor would envy… all driven by over six hundred years of intense, life-and-death innovation by some of the best minds on the planet…

    If that doesn’t sound like fun, tell me what does.

    Now get over to Kim’s site and find someone to take you shooting…

  97. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    PC, if you only knew the half of it darlin!

    Mrs M, oh she of the PhotoShop wizardry, you are indeed an artist and one whose ‘Shop skills are to be feared! Bangie thang LOVED em! She has been pestering me to ask you do more. Should I feel insulted?

  98. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    goddamit guys (and gals)–you’re starting to make it seem like it’s a lot of fun to have guns!

    You kidding me? It’s some of the best fun you can have without taking your clothes off!

    If it weren’t, it’d just be another duty and, whereas duty will make you adequate at something, to get really good at something, it has to be fun as well.

    It’s fun as Hell and it’s got something for everyone. From the casual weekend plinker enjoying shooting at empty cans to the hunter enjoying the stalk and bringing the meat home to the “cave”. From the collector never tiring of holding a new boomstick in his hand and marveling at the engineering of it to the mechanically inclined who just wants to hone and fine-tune his gun like an instrument. From the utilitarian just wanting to be able to defend home and hearth to the “accessorizer” never tiring of tricking out his favorite “toy”, and I think we all have a bit of them all in us to varying degrees.

    And I know that it’s contagious as anything. I’ve had the privilege of thrusting a firearm into the hands of many a “newbie” over the years and I have yet to see one not get a different look in the eye when he or she “rode the thunder” for the first time.

    But I digress… Curse you for getting me started! ;)

  99. LC Moriarty Comment by LC Moriarty

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    With bare pate and bowed head, let us recall the words of The Guru:

    There is an enchantment cast upon almost any man* when he holds a rifle in his hands.

    (Being of the old school, we may assume he also meant woman.)

  100. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    There is an enchantment cast upon almost any man* when he holds a rifle in his hands.

    As St Cooper of the Scout spake, thus shall it ever be…

    So say we all.

  101. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

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    psychochick said:

    There is not the industrial pollution you get in a city.

    I’m pretty sure it travels :) Wasn’t most of the acid rain in Norway and Sweden supposedly caused by factories in China or the US? Atmospheric and waterbourne pollutants follow the winds and currents just like everything else…. But, you have a lot more waterfowl shooters than we do back home. I may be proportioning the lead in the water improperly, as it’s anglers back home that fill most of the gizzards.

    Would that be a good investment?

    Right now, if you can find good surplus at halfway decent prices, stashing it in your closet for a year or two might just pay off. Metal and powder prices keep rising, and surplus ammo is more expensive every time I look at it. BUT, don’t bet the farm and it’s way more fun to have a stash to shoot rather than hoard.

    goddamit guys (and gals)–you’re starting to make it seem like it’s a lot of fun to have guns!

    Oh Hell yes. Not counting the purtyness of the things themselves, the happy feeling after you’ve stripped down and cleaned a rifle older than you are which now gleams like new from your Hoppes (cleaner, very distinctive smell) and scrubbing efforts, there’s the actual shooting part. A bad days shooting is usually the match of most good days doing (almost) anything else.

    My personal thing is military surplus rifles. For price, function and reasonably priced ammo, it’s hard to go wrong with my ugly slabs of crappy Commie steel :)

    Misha said:

    But he’s a good capitalist and and honest man, Bless his heart, so I couldn’t entangle him with my wily schemes.

    Now see, if this had been some random internet sale, or some guy at a gun show I’d probably have just chuckled and sold it on at a fractional profit to The Emp here, being as I know he’ll shoot it and the seller didn’t bother to read the outside of the can.

    But….. this was not only a buddy but a buddy with a severely deprived toy budget, so my mercenary heart was softened.

    So say we all.

    So say we all.

  102. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    Hoppes (cleaner, very distinctive smell)

    And ex-girlfriend once asked what my favorite perfume was.

    I went to the cabinet and brought back a bottle of Hoppes Number 9…

  103. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    And ex-girlfriend once asked what my favorite perfume was.
    I went to the cabinet and brought back a bottle of Hoppes Number 9…

    M has been looking for some of that. He keeps talking about that “distinctive smell” and how well it cleans, but we haven’t been able to find any the last couple of places we’ve looked. Going to make a looksey trip over to Bass Pro today to see if they have any.
    We’re also going today or tomorrow to be checking out a new (to us) shooting range not far from us owned and operated by Jerry Miculek and his wife Kay Clark-Miculek. It should be interesting. It’s only about 10 miles from our house.

    Bangie thang LOVED em! She has been pestering me to ask you do more. Should I feel insulted?

    LOL! Well I’m glad she liked them. I will certainly see what I can do to get her some more done. Gotta go search my folders to see what I can come up with. *Evil Grin*

  104. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    Oh bother!….that damn Spam Filter hasn’t been fed today has it? It just ate my last comment. Will someone please feed that damn thing some breakfast?

  105. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

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    I know where you’re coming from Guido. First time I ever smelt Hoppes I knew what it was from many descriptions I’d heard :)

  106. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Reloaded brass has to be full length resized for an autoloader, or you will have problems. The case can get too “fat”, and the headspace too long to fully chamber. Case heads expand with repeated firing. Measure this, or you will not like what happens. Cases get longer with firing and need to be periodically trimmed. A Wilson case gage is cheap and some of the smartest money you will spend. I use a 6″ Mitutoyo digital caliper for measuring. The above and many other toys are available at

    http://www.sinclairintl.com/

  107. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Crunchie,

    I understand about hunting pigs with dogs and do not criticise those who do. It is just not my cup of tea. I like to stalk. Hounds are a foot race.

    I save my dangerous encounters for dodging big bears in Alaska or Canada. It is a damned eerie feeling crawling through an alder thicket with meat and you can hear them in the brush. It is less fun when you accidently walk up on one feeding on the carcass of someone else’s kill.

  108. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Mark
    You just described my ultimate dream hunt! One day.

    Mrs M

    LOL! Well I’m glad she liked them. I will certainly see what I can do to get her some more done. Gotta go search my folders to see what I can come up with. *Evil Grin*

    Just make me look good darlin’!

  109. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Mrs M, that video was awesome!!!! Thank you a million times!
    Psychochick,(of the beautiful avatar that I am jealous of)
    guns are fun. They are like power tools. You have to learn the rules of use first… Then you have a blast!!
    Look… I learned to shoot when I was 6. An air rifle. Grandpa taught me. He was a career military man, so he had to!
    When I came to the States, my life changed very drastically… I had the same “mind trouble” as you mentioned, when you gave us info about yourself, for a little while… Funny thing was, when I got my carry license for handguns here in the States (in Massachusetts, of all places)and started going to a range to shoot, it took care of a lot of my stress and my anxiety. It was like therapy! Only a bit cheaper! You should really try firing a gun— at a paper target, or a bottle, or a can! Or even a watermelon! It’s fun. You also realize how powerful and final it is. You also realize is that once you master that power, nobody can get away with hurting you. You become calmer, less anxious, and a whole lot more happy. I would hate to see you hurt yourself, and I hope you never do– I don’t even know you, personally, but I enjoy our exchanges, online—I am very interested in you staying alive, not just because you are a unique human, but just for the discussions :) !!
    Realize one thing: guns are for people who value themselves highly enough to defend themselves. Liberty is for the same kind of people. They are the only kind who will bother fighting for it.

  110. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Crunchie! I have another AK!!!!!!!!! Two! Yee-haw!!!

  111. Princess Natasha Comment by Princess Natasha

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    Hoppes… Good stuff. But I still love the smell of jet fuel for Tomcats!!!

  112. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Princess Natasha
    congrats on the AK!

    Thanks for the comments! I used to worry about being annoying (and still do some). I’m glad that is less of an issue.

    I am really intrigued by what you said about shooting reducing anxiety. You know–the medication I’m on now is perfect, and I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. I could probably get away with having a gun (or many–they sound addictive), but apparently I promised I would never buy one. I don’t remember saying that, but I take my promises seriously.

    Once again, I was told that the shooting ranges don’t rent guns. I should take Crunchie’s advice and call. It’s funny–my neighbor said she wouldn’t lend me her gun. Never occurred to me! I need to find someone to train me–someone gave me a web site for that (Crunchie I think. I shake like a leaf from the lithium, but there is a drug I can take to mitigate that. It’s kind of embarassing. Oh well. Then I shake even worse when I get nervous: “Whole lotta shakin goin on” I’ll get shooting yet, and it would never have occurred to me if you guys hadn’t walked me through it!

  113. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Psychochick,

    Are you in California? There are some ranges that rent guns. I’m not sure what they require in terms of safety certification. Getting trained is easy. Ranges offer classes, some gun shops do, and lots of training schools exist. It is best to be trained on the gun you will use, but lots of the safety stuff is general.

    Borrowing a gun in California is a no-no unless the registered owner is with you. Transportation and storage laws are a pain.

  114. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Princess Natasha,

    How did you manage a concealed carry permit and AK-47s in Mass.? California really sucks on these points.

  115. Unregistered Comment by Mark6591

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    Crunchie,

    If you are talking about a bear hunt, for grizzly, or brown bear, it is expensive. You cannot hunt either Alaska or Canada without a guide and hunts run from $10k to $30k. I hunt elk in Canada.

  116. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    Mark
    Yeah I know, hence the dream part. One day, one day, maybe when I start spending my kids inheritance.

    Natasha
    Way to go you Russkie minx you! Details girl, details!

  117. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Mark
    Thanks. It didn’t occur to me that it would be best to be trained on the gun you are going to use, but it makes perfect sense. Yeah, I’m in Cal–Central Coast, so there’s lots of rural areas around. I should get my act together to look into it training, renting, and ranges–have had a low-grade infection the whole time I’ve been on this blog, so I haven’t been very together. Wish I could buy, but it would be a really stupid thing for me to do. It’s bad enough that the dog is trying to kill me. It’s amazing how strong a 50 lb dog can be when he lunges.