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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Scooter Won’t Go To Jail
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WASHINGTON—President Bush spared former White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby from a 2 1/2-year prison term in the CIA leak case Monday, stepping into a criminal case with heavy political overtones on grounds that the sentence was just too harsh.

Bush’s move came hours after a federal appeals panel ruled Libby could not delay his prison term in the CIA leak case. That meant Libby was likely to have to report to prison soon and put new pressure on the president, who had been sidestepping calls by Libby’s allies to pardon the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney.

“I respect the jury’s verdict,” Bush said in a statement. “But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby’s sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison.”

Bush left intact a $250,000 fine and two years probation for Libby, and Bush said his action still “leaves in place a harsh punishment for Mr. Libby.”

I am, of course, extremely happy for Scooter and his family. At least he won’t have to go to jail for not remembering the correct sequence of conversations from years ago in a case about a non-crime committed by somebody else: Dickhead Armitage, something that was known to the prosecutor at the time.

On the other hand, you simply have to admire the talent for fucking up on the part of the President. Let’s see: He can either ignore Libby and piss off everybody with the slightest notion of actual justice while making the Dem Cong cheer for him until they get right back to hating him, or he can pardon Libby, creating cheers from the base that he’s been busy alienating, insulting and pissing on for 6 long years while ticking off the Dem Cong who hate his guts anyway.

So what does the dimbulb choose? To do something that is neither, pissing off everybody in the process. Say what you like about him, but he surely IS an equal opportunity offender. He never misses a chance to make as many people as possible spit on him. I’m in awe.

The Dem Cong, predictably, are outraged, OUTRAGED about this sudden outbreak of minimal justice:

“As Independence Day nears, we are reminded that one of the principles our forefathers fought for was equal justice under the law. This commutation completely tramples on that principle,” Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said through a spokesman.

Sandy Pantsbergler couldn’t be reached for comment. Just shut up, upChuck, shut the fuck up and go suck on the tailpipe of a Chevy ‘57, will you? There is no possible way that you could serve your country any better than by doing that.

Oh, and Harry Screed was bloviating something about the Bush Administration “not facing justice for silencing critics.” Because heaven knows, once Dickhead Armitage had mentioned non-covert agent Valerie Plame’s name, we never heard a single word from her or her lying sack of shit husband ever again! Gone. Poof! As if they never existed! Not a single appearance on the cover of magazines, not a second of airtime on the major news networks, no book deals, no public appearances, nothing!

Eerie.

Anyway, anybody dying to praise President “Throw My Friends Under the Bus at the Drop of a Sombrero” Bush may go ahead and do so, but I’ll wait until Scooter isn’t out $250,000 and hasn’t had his career and good name destroyed.

141 Responses to “Scooter Won’t Go To Jail”
  1. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    Leaving in place a quarter million dollar fine and two years probation for NOT committing a crime.

    I vote we impeach now and avoid the rush.

  2. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    And, BTW, if you wanna silence someone, Jorge, lemme show you how . . .

  3. Unregistered Comment by Chairborne Ranger

    “As Independence Day nears, we are reminded that one of the principles our forefathers fought for was equal justice under the law. This commutation completely tramples on that principle,” Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said through a spokesman.

    What about the principle of a president overriding the wrongful punishment of a trial brought on by pure political motivation?

    Just shut up, upChuck, shut the fuck up and go suck on the tailpipe of a Chevy ‘57, will you? There is no possible way that you could serve your country any better than by doing that.

    Emperor, I only ask that the Chevy be running at the time.

  4. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

    Leaving in place a quarter million dollar fine

    This is where Bob elbowed Newt over n’ said “this one’s on me Bro’”

  5. Unregistered Comment by dasbow

    Actually, it’s a good first step. It allows Libby to appeal and get this travesty overturned while staying out of jail. Hopefully, the appelate courts will find it just plain odd that Libby’s defense team wasn’t allowed to put Andrea Mitchell or a memory expert on the stand, or that Dickgerald was allowed to hide Pflame’s status throughout the trial, but was allowed to insinuate that she had Sooper-Sekret Double 0 cover during sentencing.

  6. Texas84 Comment by Texas84

    Cheney ‘07!

  7. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

    Emperor, I only ask that the Chevy be running at the time.

    With 4 blown rings and the accelerator floored.

  8. maxxdog Comment by maxxdog

    I’m glad Scooter won’t be going to jail.
    It would be nice if W, just once, would tell the Dems to STFU but I guess this is more then I actually expected him to do. What a sorry fuck he has turned into.

  9. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson

    Good, drink the Kool-Aid lefties…Bush should wipe out the entire thing… I’m no Bush fan, but what this was a freaking witch hunt from the get go and the marxist northeast media….now charge that rubber faced bitch Plame, and her limp wristed husband with treason and be done with it.

    hOOt

  10. jaybear Comment by jaybear

    pardon the Pendleton Marines and the Border Agents NEXT!!!

  11. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

    Hell, the only thing entertaining is to see the full-blown, spittle-flying, histrionic-BDS over at DU.

  12. Unregistered Comment by PlatinumPlus

    This is great news… I bet those libs at Kos will be throwing fits!!

    ~~MICHAEL L TELEHA

  13. LC RobertHuntingdon Comment by LC RobertHuntingdon

    Cheney probably wouldn’t be as much better as we’d like, but I’m about as sure as possible that he *literally* could NOT be worse…. And then, of course, he would turn out to find a way no doubt. The entire population of the District of Corruption just needs to GO…

    RH

  14. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

    The entire population of the District of Corruption just needs to GO…

    Talk about a dirty boom target…

  15. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

    Hearing morally relativistic democrats preach about principles is a best a sick oxymoron……..not surprising by any stretch.

  16. Unregistered Pingback by Stop The ACLU » Blog Archive » Scooter Libby’s Liberation

    […] sure Libby is greatful, but the Rottweiller sums up my feelings on the “half-ass” actions of the […]

  17. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

    pardon the Pendleton Marines and the Border Agents NEXT!!!

    Amen, Jaybear

  18. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    psychochick
    I read one analysis that thought it was in Bush’s interest not to have Libby in jail and talking about the White House inner circle. Although if he wants that not to happen, it would make sense to remove the fine.

  19. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Psychochick,

    I see you’ve resorted to talking to yourself now…*evil grin*

    What happened to the smilies???

  20. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    I don’t why I bolded my own name–put it down to insanity (which of course is only temporary!)

  21. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Slick Willie pardoned people for far worse crimes than FORGETTING a conversation. The left has ZERO room to complain about Libby’s treatment.

    Clinton himself escaped jail despite perjury and subornation of perjury.

  22. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    To hang out with THIS crowd, it’s best to plead permanent insanity…

  23. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    Skyechild
    I wasn’t complaining about his treatment. I was just pointing out that Bush might have had ulterior motives to pardon him. To me, that has nothing to do with the validity of his pardon.

    I’m sure I could achieve permanent insanity, although it would make my spouse very unhappy.

  24. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

    I’m sure I could achieve permanent insanity,

    ..If I made too much sense too fast,, The Manager would look like the end of the Alaska pineline as Mrs. C flutters those long lashes from the other end of the barrel,,sweetly demands: “Just who the hell are you and what’d you do with my husband!”

    People don’t lean on you too much if they think you’re nutz. ‘Get to choose your own charities more, rather than killin’ y’self keepin’ up with all the others.

  25. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    PC,

    My note about Libby’s treatment was actually in response to the poster who made the comments about DU and KOS…I’m sure they are frothing, and forgetting about Clinton.

  26. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    Cheapshot
    I really don’t understand you half the time.

    “choose your own charities more.” Do you mean post on fewer threads? Or fewer blogs? This is the only blog I post on.

    SkyeChild
    Sorry. Your comment followed my post, so I made a misassumption. I’m sure you are correct about the frothing.

  27. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

    psychochick

    “choose your own charities more.” Do you mean post on fewer threads? Or fewer blogs?

    I would call that a case of Cheapshot being Cheapshot, hon.

    Although I must say that, when people think you have “issues”, screaming out, “I gave at the office!” tends to get them off your porch in a hurry…

  28. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

    psychochick

    Oh, one more thing…

    I really don’t understand you half the time.

    That’s better than some of the rest of us…

  29. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Management (and you know who you are):

    What happened to all the smilies and animated thingies that we used to have?

  30. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

    Well, it’s better than nothing, which is what I was expecting. This whole thing has been one cluster fucked abortion from the git go. I hate to say it, but a commutation is probably more than we should have expected.

  31. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

    I guess I must be farther gone than I thought. I *usually* understand Cheapshot just fine.

  32. Unregistered Comment by Ron

    Hey, Mike, how’s life? As you might imagine, I’m not exactly in agreement with your position but I thought you might like to know that I just got a raft of shit from a few of my leftie brethren for going up front and assuming that the Democrats are going to act like the ball-less fuckwits that they are in response to this power play. I will probably be proved right shortly.

    I’m glad we can agree on one thing still; politicians are a bunch of oxygen sucking bags of waste and perhaps the best thing we can do is bring the left and right fringes together and at least demand that they do SOMETHING worth a fuck.

    God damn it all, Mike, there is still a bit of anti-idiotarian in me after all this time. How will I ever fit in anywhere after learning how to act on blogs at the Emperor’s knee?

    How’s fam life? I will not be going back to OIF after all, that’s about all I have for good news. These last two deployments have really strained my clan. It goes without saying that I can’t bitch since there are no divorces, cheating, limbs lost and the like, but you know it isn’t easy for any of us.

    Best,
    Ron

  33. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

    What happened to all the smilies and animated thingies that we used to have?

    Dunno.  Prolly wanna ask Dave.

    Dave?

  34. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

    I guess I must be farther gone than I thought. I *usually* understand Cheapshot just fine.

    Sometimes I think I do…but I’m not about to admit it.

    I agree with Crunchie…this whole thing has been one giant gang bang from the beginning…but I was expecting Libby to rot in jail before W got off his backstabbing ass to do anything about it. Now if we could just convince him to at least do the same for the Soldiers and Border Patrol Agents who are only guilty of doing their damn jobs!

  35. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

    What happened to all the smilies and animated thingies that we used to have?

    The plugin that ran them fuxored up the new WordPress template so we ended up with no line breaks in the comments with it turned on. Sadly, the guy who wrote it hasn’t updated it and nothing better or equivalent has appeared as of yet.

    However, the internal WordPress smilies are still functional. The codes are here, if you want to use them. :)

  36. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

    Hiya, Ron!

    Long time no see! Everything’s good here, I haven’t burst an aneurysm yet — mheh — and I’ve just about had it with politicians of any stripe too. They can all go perform anatomically impossible acts with a randy rhinoceros as far as I’m concerned.

    Glad to hear everything’s good on your end as well, and thanks again for your service, my friend.

    Take care, and don’t be a stranger!

  37. Deathknyte Comment by Deathknyte

    Get to choose your own charities more, rather than killin’ y’self keepin’ up with all the others.

    Three possiblilites.

    One: Its an odd way of saying pick your own battles.

    Two: It means nothing.

    Three: It is an odd experiment in seeing what other people will read into it.

  38. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    Guido
    Thanks. It’s always good to know what I do that’s annoying. However, I think there’s been a misunderstanding. Boy, I hope people aren’t afraid to post around me. I’ve blown up three times in my time here, and they have all involved pretty rude comments. One of the cases came to a middle ground in the end.

    I hope this isn’t monopolizing the thread, but I want to correct the record.

    ’screaming out, “I gave at the office!”’
    –that alarmed me, because I really couldn’t think of any instance of mentioning donations unless it was a long time ago. I have specifically not been mentioning donations.
    –then I realized something that I think could have been misunderstood:
    —–”I support the Humane Society a lot less since they have been taken over by animal rights activists”
    —– Well, I’ve never given them any money ever–I just meant intellectual support. Now I see that that might have come off as being a charity I supported.

  39. purple raider Comment by purple raider

    Clinton himself escaped jail despite perjury and subornation of perjury

    Clinton actually was close to being charged with out and out treason for the Loral-China deal.

    Then there is the matter of the 39 Cray supercomputers that China now has.

    And there are other shady dealings…

  40. Unregistered Comment by Ron

    Take care, and don’t be a stranger!

    I’ll try not to. I get a fucking headache enough at Bring It On! waving my virtual wanger at the Bush supporters there, but I will visit now and then when I feel like bashing the Democrats from the left and it’s ok to be all NC-17 on them and such.

  41. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

    Y’all, sometimes Cheapshot is so deep that even he don’t understand it. All he knows is that it’s a masterful truth so heavy and profound a mere mortal would go insane if he grasped it for even a second. ;-)

    It does give me hours of enjoyment running down the possibilities of exactly what he meant.

  42. Unregistered Trackback by Seeing the Forest

    Libby - Reactions From The Authoritarian Right…

    The authoritarian right is starting to weigh in. (Note - Read the comments at these blogs at your own risk.) The Strata-Sphere Libby was tried by an abusive prosecutor out for fame and name who knew Libby had nothing to……

  43. maxxdog Comment by maxxdog

    He meant people don’t pressure you if you come off as a little fucking nuts. I think…

  44. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Lemme see if I got this right…

    A jury, presented with a case brought on by a prosecutor and defended vigorously by a high paid defense lawyer, found that the evidence presented by BOTH sides indicated that Libby was guilty of a crime.

    A sitting federal judge (a Republican to boot) felt that a) Libby had received a fair trial; and b) felt that the jury had reached the logical conclusion so he pronounced Libby guilty of the crimes and sentenced him according to the accepted sentencing guidelines for that particular crime. (not an exceptional sentence, mind you, but one within the guidelines.

    A federal appeals court made up of two Republicans and one Democrat also found that Libby didn’t raise enough issues to warrant a stay of execution of sentence.

    Even President Bunnypants found that Libby was guilty, but decided that he would only commute the sentence so that Libby didn’t have to bunk up with Bubba for thirty months.

    What did Libby have on Bush? Must have been something really bad, because Bush went completely off the reservation in this particular case.

    As far as that “base” goes, you mean the 20 percent of people who still think that Bush administration is not corrupt?

    The Supranos have more integrity.

  45. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Random Numbers

    Defended vigorously…

    …except for the part about being allowed to actually present a defense.

    This commutation is likely a good thing, as the conviction has an excellent chance of being reversed on appeal.

  46. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Random Numbers

    Also, if he fails, then President Fred Thompson can complete the pardon in 2009.

  47. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    This commutation is likely a good thing, as the conviction has an excellent chance of being reversed on appeal.

    Except that the appellate court signalled that there wasn’t much grounds for appeal.

    He had a fair trial — better than most defendants. By the time it was over, it was obvious to most people that he was guilty.

  48. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Also, if he fails, then President Fred Thompson can complete the pardon in 2009.

    Pee Wee Herman has a much better chance of becoming president. :lol:

  49. Unregistered Comment by photomunkey

    Well, just for grins and giggles, I wandered in to the DU site looking for rational posts… or exploding heads. Either would be entertaining. I must say, those folks there sure can make me smile! I think the funniest thing I read was from the person who suggested it was time for the “Revolution to begin”.

    First, when did guns become acceptable to hippies?
    Second, do they actually own any?
    Third, THIS is the group they consider (internally) to be the “mainstream”?
    Fourth, it must be duly (or should it be dully) noted that Pres. Jorge Arbusto had NO problems with his job performance rating in the polls when he followed his “John Wayne persona” and went after every single terrorist group who dared harm America. It’s only NOW, after he’s pissed of all of his GOP base that the DU-mmies insist that his 20% approval score means that NO ONE supports him? Should the President decide to “return to the ranch” and reaffirm that, just possibly, he IS still a Republican, I’m certain that his poll numbers would easily double those of Congress!

  50. jaybear Comment by jaybear

    DJ,

    I think you’re missing the irony here sir. What makes me and probably a lot of others happy about this is not so much that he got a commutation but that justice has swung both ways here.

    Compare and contrast:

    Sandy Berger steals classified documents during an investigation of his president, destroys those documents, and gets caught stealing more. He gets a $50,000 fine and 100 hours community service FOR STEALING AND DESTROYING CLASSIFIED SECURITY DOCUMENTS.

    Libby lies or can’t recall (aka the Clinton defense)where he learned of “secret agent” plames identity. He also gives false information about a conversation he had with Tim Russert. Libby is sentenced to 30 months in prison and a fine of $250,000. Valerie Plame was NOT covert, was NOT an agent, and was listed in America’s Who’s Who as being married to joe wilson and working at the CIA.

    So which should carry a bigger penalty Dave?. Compromising an investigation into the 9/11 attacks by stealing and destroying potentially incriminating documents? or outing some D.C. cocktail circuit floozy who TOLD everyone she worked at the CIA and then lying about it? Which does more damage to our country?……

    Heyyyy, I’ll bet paris hilton knows the answer to that one!!

    :)

  51. JanetMae Comment by JanetMae

    Except that the appellate court signalled that there wasn’t much grounds for appeal.

    Really? When was that? Got a link?

    He had a fair trial — better than most defendants. By the time it was over, it was obvious to most people that he was guilty.

    That’s some mighty hefty conjecture you got goin’ there. Think you can hold it up for very long?

    The defense wasn’t allowed to call all the witnesses they wanted to, and the jury was stacked. Oh yeah. Real fair trial.

    Can you acquaint me with these, “most people,” who thought he was guilty? I’d like to talk to them.

  52. Beth* A. Comment by Beth* A.

    Pee Wee Herman has a much better chance of becoming president.

    What a truly interesting comparison DJ - I could not disagree more.

  53. TheCount Comment by TheCount

    b) felt that the jury had reached the logical conclusion

    DJ, I do not put much stock in “A Jury of my Peers” anymore. I have found that the majority of people sitting on the Jury Stand barely have an IQ over room temperature. That is one reason I do everything in my power to not go into the system both civilly and criminally. Hence, why it pays to not break the law and get into situations which may lead me down that path.

    Also, it is not that I have been called to serve, it is the fact that I have indeed been called to do my duty as a citizen. However, I never made it past the Jury Challenge [Selection].

    Sandy Berger steals classified documents during an investigation of his president, destroys those documents, and gets caught stealing more. He gets a $50,000 fine and 100 hours community service FOR STEALING AND DESTROYING CLASSIFIED SECURITY DOCUMENTS.

    Libby lies or can’t recall (aka the Clinton defense)where he learned of “secret agent” plames identity. He also gives false information about a conversation he had with Tim Russert. Libby is sentenced to 30 months in prison and a fine of $250,000. Valerie Plame was NOT covert, was NOT an agent, and was listed in America’s Who’s Who as being married to joe wilson and working at the CIA.

    Jaybear:
    Let us not forget, that Bill Clinton also perjured himself, under oath, like Libby. A sitting president no less. Did Clinton get the same treatment in the System and the Press as Scooter Libby? That is something else DJ should ponder. Clinton was impeached by the house, not just because of the tryst with a fat intern, but because he becomes a National Security Risk. What if she was a spy? What if she was not just talking to Linda Tripp, but Al-Qaeda or Hugo Chavez? That right there proves Lewinsky could not keep her mouth shut (pardon the pun). He lied to cover his ass because he was in deep shit. Libby on other hand as JAYBEAR mentioned, outed NO ONE. This was a witch hunt and Bush should have pardoned him, COMPLETELY.

    What did Libby have on Bush? Must have been something really bad, because Bush went completely off the reservation in this particular case.

    DJ…I think I hear Black Helicopters circling around your head. Besides, the controversy was with Rove and Cheney…not so much Bush. The Bush Administration has many other examples of incompetence and lackadaisical situation handling, than this. Is this the best the left could do? Hang a man out to dry to try and get…BUSH!?! Please. One can call out the infamous Black Helicopter Conspiracy Mumbo Jumbo and argue that the Libby fiasco was just to get the eyes of the citizenry off of the Democrat Congress of Corruption. Because, no one has investigated Harry Reid on his land deals. No one has investigated Feinstein on her shady business deals. No One has ran an Investigation on Shumer, who was harassing Fitzgerald. Shumer said Perjury was not enough!
    Shumer’s actions during a criminal trial, wanting a report even when the case is still being heard, is official misconduct. But no one said a damn thing. Plus, you have Nancy Pelosi and her conflict of interest in Starkist Tuna and the non-minimum wage increase in the Marinara Islands, even though it went up everywhere else. Libby has been driven through the mud, chards of glass, and hot coals…compared to other cases. Also, if you want more political prosecutions, look at the case of the two border patrol agents and Tom Delay’s Conspiracy case. Furthermore, look at the firings of the Federal Prosecutors, no law was broken. It falls under Executive Privilege and yet the Demcong keep trying to find a crime …when there was absolutely NO CRIME, just like in the case of Scooter Libby.

  54. LC Scott Comment by LC Scott

    Pee Wee Herman has a much better chance of becoming president. :lol:

    DJ Maybe if he was run for president on the democrats ticket.

  55. LC Scott Comment by LC Scott

    that should say.”DJ Maybe if he was run for president on the democrats ticket.”

  56. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

    bush thought he could get it both ways..and he did…. just not the way he originally thought.

    Libby doesn’t got to prison for this bullsh*t case (so that makes the right happy), but he still has to pay the fine and lose his license (the fine will be paid by donations and he’ll get a job though a Friend of Bush …somewhere doing an overpriced consultant job), so Libby will come out alright, but it is another compromise dreamed up by this administration that doesn’t work.

    Bush…Schwarzenegger, I can’t think of who has been the biggest disappointment to me.

  57. Unregistered Comment by LC & IB Random Numbers

    He had a fair trial — better than most defendants. By the time it was over, it was obvious to most people that he was guilty.

    Only if you consider a court of Large Australian Marsupials fair.
    He was not allowed expert testimony for his main line of defense.
    He was not allowed his witnesses.
    He was not allowed to challenge that he had no reason to intentionally lie because there was no underlying crime to obstruct.
    The prosecution, however, used assumptions not in evidence as their closing argument and in sentencing in order to effectively punish Libby for a crime that they could not charge him with, and the judge burbled his lips and nodded along.

    Sorry, but this could only be called a fair trial in Stalinist Russia.

  58. Unregistered Pingback by justbarkingmad.com » Blog Archive » Scooter Libby

    […] best explanation on why this should not gone as far as it did is given by Emperor Misha: I am, of course, extremely happy for Scooter and his family. At least he won’t have to go to […]

  59. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

    First, when did guns become acceptable to hippies?

    When they allow them to force their viewpoint on us “unenlightened” fools? After all, if you’ve ever tested their vaunted pacifism, you’ll find you can almost always provoke a violent verbal or physical response by simply disagreeing with them.

    But it works for me, I’m guessing they can’t shoot for shit. Substance abuse rarely makes for good marksmanship.

  60. Unregistered Pingback by The Heretik : Law and Order

    […] of the time: Firedoglake, White House, TPMmuckraker, The Raw Story, At-Largely, Jules Crittenden, Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler, PoliBlog (TM), Angry Bear, Needlenose, All Spin Zone, TalkLeft, The Moderate Voice, New York […]

  61. AyUaxe Comment by AyUaxe

    I frankly expected more intelligent discussion on this than I’m seeing, though not from DJ–we’re getting exactly what his avatar suggests. Dasbow is the only one who seems to get it–the commutation ameliorates a totally BS, politically motivated, excessive sentence AND allows Scooter to gain exoneration the RIGHT way, by appeal. If the appeal goes south, he could still be pardoned at any future date. I strongly agree that the border agents and marines who’ve been railroaded by the clintonista 5th column (in)justice department should be pardoned and pray that Shrub will have the balls to do it as he’s leaving office. He needs to be careful, though, ’cause the distinction between who and for what he pardons people versus what Klintoon did should be as stark as possible. One would have to be an idiot to fail at that–oh, shit!

  62. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson

    I see bj allyn is still wearing his Monica-style knee pads as he refuses to acknowledge his boy Klinton’s pardons of the past….always the shit-for-brained marxist dupe, no matter what the subject. All GOP Bashing, all the time, right dilweed?

    I see very few good posts concerning the GOP and it’s actions, we know both parties are scum… sad you’re not bright enought to figure that little tidbit out.

    [waiting for bj’s Canuck/China butt boy to chime in]

    hOOt

  63. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Libby lies or can’t recall (aka the Clinton defense)where he learned of “secret agent” plames identity. He also gives false information about a conversation he had with Tim Russert. Libby is sentenced to 30 months in prison and a fine of $250,000. Valerie Plame was NOT covert, was NOT an agent, and was listed in America’s Who’s Who as being married to joe wilson and working at the CIA.

    But they are lies, obfuscation, misdirecton. He was running interference in the investigation, and I suspect that he did so WITH the expectation of receiving a pardon if it came down to that.

    I don’t see the irony here — mainly because there isn’t any.

    By accounts, Plame was operating as a covert agent in a covert operation. The CIA itself says that, so no matter how you try to slice and dice it, the facts are the facts. I’m thinking that the CIA is far more credible than the 101st Fighting Keyboarders. It was the CIA that started this investigation in the first place.

    Of course all that is immaterial in the case of Libby’s conviction. He was convicted of basically hindering a federal investigation. Using your theory, he shouldn’t have had to. He could have told his ‘truth’ and been done with it. But he didn’t, and he faced the consequences.

    If this hadn’t been Libby or some other Republican top player, he would be serving time right now because there wouldn’t have been a pardon or commution of sentence. You might have even been complaining that the punishment wasn’t has harsh as it should have been.

    Yes, Sandy Berger should have been rotting in a cell somewhere. But he made a deal and got out from under it. Libby had a chance for a deal and chose to fight the charges. The ‘cost’ of fighting and losing is having to suffer a greater penalty than if you had entered into a plea bargain. THAT is the criminal justice system.

    By Bush interferring, he basically said that Libby was above everyone else, or more priviledged.

  64. franksalterego Comment by franksalterego

    What did Libby have on Bush? Must have been something really bad, because Bush went completely off the reservation in this particular case.
    –Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    ARKANSAS SUDDEN DEATH SYNDROME

    - Number of persons in the Clinton machine orbit who are alleged to have committed suicide: 9
    - Number known to have been murdered: 12
    - Number who died in plane crashes: 6
    - Number who died in single car automobile accidents: 3
    - Number of one-person sking fatalities: 1
    - Number of key witnesses who have died of heart attacks while in federal custody under questionable circumstances: 1
    - Number of unexplained deaths: 4
    - Total suspicious deaths: 46
    - Number of northern Mafia killings during peak years of 1968-78: 30
    - Number of Dixie Mafia killings during same period: 156

    I mean, after all, if you want to talk about conspiracy theories….

  65. franksalterego Comment by franksalterego

    Unexplained Phenomena, Clinton Administration

    - FBI files misappropriated by the White House: c. 900
    - Estimated number of witnesses quoted in FBI files misappropriated by the White House: 18,000
    - Number of witnesses who developed medical problems at critical points in Clinton scandals investigation (Tucker, Hale, both McDougals, Lindsey): 5
    - Problem areas listed in a memo by Clinton’s own lawyer in preparation for the president’s defense: 40
    - Number of witnesses and critics of Clinton subjected to IRS audit: 45
    - Number of names placed in a White House secret database without the knowledge of those named: c. 200,000
    - Number of women involved with Clinton who claim to have been physically threatened (Sally Perdue, Gennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willey, Linda Tripp, Elizabeth Ward Gracen, Juantia Broaddrick): 6
    - Number of men involved in the Clinton scandals who have been beaten up or claimed to have been intimidated: 10

  66. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

    So which should carry a bigger penalty Dave?. Compromising an investigation into the 9/11 attacks by stealing and destroying potentially incriminating documents? or outing some D.C. cocktail circuit floozy who TOLD everyone she worked at the CIA and then lying about it? Which does more damage to our country?……

    (**** Crickets Chirping ****)

  67. Unregistered Comment by LC Wes, Imperial Mohel

    My own suspicion about the Libby case is that Libby probably did lie to federal investigators, if only to save his own personal hide. He certainly reinforced the prosecution’s bogus case by trying to claim in court that he was just being made a scapegoat for misconduct by the Administration (a blatant attempt to appeal to the liberal, anti-Republican DC jury that heard the case).

    That doesn’t change the fact that 1) Patrick Fitzgerald’s investigation was fundamentally unjust and completely bogus and 2) it’s just about impossible for any Republican to get a “fair trial” in DC, where liberals outnumber Republicans about four to one…and outnumber genuine conservatives about ten to one.

    From a political perspective, what Bush should have done - as long as he was commuting Libby’s sentence instead of just pardoning him - was to reduce Libby’s sentence to the 100 hours of community service and the fifty thousand dollar fine that Sandy Berg(l)er got. And pointed that out in his official White House press release announcing the commutation.

    That would have rubbed it in…with salt.

  68. Nanashi Comment by Nanashi

    But they are lies, obfuscation, misdirecton. He was running interference in the investigation, and I suspect that he did so WITH the expectation of receiving a pardon if it came down to that.

    Can you prove that beyond reasonable doubt? That’s a mighty tall order you’re insisting on, and you’ll forgive me if I’m sceptical of your claim here unless you can back it up with some hard evidence. “Because I say so!” just isn’t enough, I’m afraid.

  69. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Let’s look at who else is “above the law,” shall we? (besides Berger and Clinton)

    From the Department of Justice,via drudge:

    http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm

    All this “outrage” from the left is a joke, considering Clinton’s actions.

  70. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Hm…my post disappeared…

    Paging management…

    [Gotcha covered, hon.  -The Management™]

  71. Nanashi Comment by Nanashi

    My own suspicion about the Libby case is that Libby probably did lie to federal investigators, if only to save his own personal hide.

    Now admittedly, this wouldn’t surprise me as I have very little love for the Washington bureaucrats I have to deal with on an almost daily basis.

    But still — and I apply this across the board regardless of ideology — I myself suffer from a really crap memory, and I don’t always remember people I met only yesterday. So when I say that I don’t remember meeting Adam’s Housecat the day before, I’m not lying when I say that: I genuinely don’t. (Besides, liberals are always telling us to “walk a mile in someone’s shoes”, so here I am)

    So the burden of proof is on the person saying that I’m lying about not remembering if I met Adam’s Housecat. After all, I can’t exactly prove that I don’t remember. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to apply this to others. (Hell, I’d even give Clinton the benefit of the doubt…as far as I can tell, he can’t even seem to remember whom he married, and I can hardly fault him if he blocked that out deliberately)

  72. franksalterego Comment by franksalterego

    SCOOTER LIBBY: LIAR…Oh, wait…

    ARKANSAS ALTZHEIMER’S

    Number of times that Clinton figures who testified in court or before Congress said that they didn’t remember, didn’t know, or something similar.

    Bill Kennedy 116
    Harold Ickes 148
    Ricki Seidman 160
    Bruce Lindsey 161
    Bill Burton 191
    Mark Gearan 221
    Mack McLarty 233
    Neil Egglseston 250
    Hillary Clinton 250
    John Podesta 264
    Jennifer O’Connor 343
    Dwight Holton 348
    Patsy Thomasson 420
    Jeff Eller 697

    FROM THE WASHINGTON TIMES: In the portions of President Clinton’s Jan. 17 deposition that have been made public in the Paula Jones case, his memory failed him 267 times. This is a list of his answers and how many times he gave each one.

    I don’t remember - 71
    I don’t know - 62
    I’m not sure - 17
    I have no idea - 10
    I don’t believe so - 9
    I don’t recall - 8
    I don’t think so - 8
    I don’t have any specific recollection - 6
    I have no recollection - 4
    Not to my knowledge - 4
    I just don’t remember - 4
    I don’t believe - 4
    I have no specific recollection - 3
    I might have - 3
    I don’t have any recollection of that - 2 I don’t have a specific memory - 2
    I don’t have any memory of that - 2
    I just can’t say - 2
    I have no direct knowledge of that - 2
    I don’t have any idea - 2
    Not that I recall - 2
    I don’t believe I did - 2
    I can’t remember - 2
    I can’t say - 2
    I do not remember doing so - 2
    Not that I remember - 2
    I’m not aware - 1
    I honestly don’t know - 1
    I don’t believe that I did - 1
    I’m fairly sure - 1
    I have no other recollection - 1
    I’m not positive - 1
    I certainly don’t think so - 1
    I don’t really remember - 1
    I would have no way of remembering that - 1
    That’s what I believe happened - 1
    To my knowledge, no - 1
    To the best of my knowledge - 1
    To the best of my memory - 1
    I honestly don’t recall - 1
    I honestly don’t remember - 1
    That’s all I know - 1
    I don’t have an independent recollection of that - 1
    I don’t actually have an independent memory of that - 1
    As far as I know - 1
    I don’t believe I ever did that - 1
    That’s all I know about that - 1
    I’m just not sure - 1
    Nothing that I remember - 1
    I simply don’t know - 1
    I would have no idea - 1
    I don’t know anything about that - 1
    I don’t have any direct knowledge of that - 1
    I just don’t know - 1
    I really don’t know - 1
    I can’t deny that, I just — I have no memory of that at all - 1

  73. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Yo, management, could one of you check the filters, please? An earlier post of mine seems to have been eaten.

  74. franksalterego Comment by franksalterego

    George W. Bush: Worst President Ever…Oh, wait…

  75. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    franksalterego,

    You realize, I’m sure, that to the left, that list will have NO credibility whatsoever (even if it’s legit) cause it came from Freepers. Dan Rather, on the other hand, has MEGA-credibility.

  76. Unregistered Comment by JoeBigsky770

    After listening to Shillary’s latest ‘tirade’ on Bush’s commutation of Scooter’s sentence, I wanted to PUKE. I still remember, Shillary. Must suck that memories can last so long, huh?

    Btw, good re-up on the info, FranksAlterEgo. Well worth the bookmarking! :thumbright:

    Thanx! :)

  77. DJM Comment by DJM

    *cough*Ramos and Campeon*cough*

  78. Unregistered Comment by photomunkey

    Hey, another cheerful thought I had: Do you suppose that liberals suffer from the same sort of thinking that Islamic Fascists do? Let’s examine, shall we?

    1. Both fly into a rage at the slightest provocation.
    2. Both are incapable of doing any wrong, in their own eyes.
    3. Both refuse to listen to any point of view other than their own.
    4. Both are incapable of letting go of a grudge.
    5. Both are apt to pose solutions to problems which make no sense (i.e. Did he steal an apple? Cut off his hand! Did he lie to a jury? $250k fine and 30 months in jail for him!)

    There are probably more, but I think that makes it easier to see why liberals and Islamic radicals are so chummy with one another. They all have the same mental imbalance!

    One more point while I’m in here posting. Could someone please phone Micheal Moore and kindly point out one more benefit of socialized medicine? The need to import foreign doctors who’d rather blow you up than heal you! Seriously! Four or five doctors involved in this Islamic terrorist bomb plot in the UK? They’re reporting that one was only 27 years old? Obviously socialized medicine sure doesn’t have much in the way of standards for their doctor’s training, do they? And c’mon! Trained in Bagdad? In the field of medicine? Doesn’t that send up a red flag in ANYONE’s mind?

    Part of the entry process to the civilized world should be the viewing of those “offensive” Danish cartoons, in a pigskin binder!

  79. franksalterego Comment by franksalterego

    After listening to Shillary’s latest ‘tirade’ on Bush’s commutation of Scooter’s sentence, I wanted to PUKE. I still remember, Shillary. Must suck that memories can last so long, huh?
    –Comment by JoeBigsky770

    Yes

    I’m looking into the possibility of starting a Barf-Bag franchise…I think I could retire - RICH - before the next election.

  80. BITOA Comment by BITOA

    THAT LYING SCUM JOE WILSON AND HIS SCAG WIFE CAN ROT IN HELL, ALONG WITH THEIR ASSHOLE BUDDY , ARMITAGE !!!!!

  81. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

    Psychochick,
    Maybe I should spend more time on verbosity,(but I think I’m better off keepin’ things short n clear)
    In soo many cases, the folks around here know most of the jokes,,so only the punchline is neccessary..
    But in this case:

    “choose your own charities more.”

    I simply mean that when folks peg you for an expert anything,, a problem solver, a resource that they can use,,they need your help.
    ‘Got nuthin’ agains helpin’ others, but when they start leaning on ya harder and harder, they’ve become a voluntary charity, an unneccessary drain on your time,energy that you might want to gift others with.. Bogus. So, as a countermeasure,,feigning dementia can have it’s uses. A little Crazy can work for ya.
    After facing a loud mood swing,,they’ll be happy to go pester someone else to do their work or thinkin’ for them,, than to ask you again.
    ‘Hope that makes sense.

  82. MasterGuns, Imperial Marine Comment by MasterGuns, Imperial Marine

    DJ SEZ:

    “Plame was operating as a covert agent in a covert operation. The CIA itself says that, so no matter how you try to slice and dice it, the facts are the facts.”

    That is BS. She was not covert any more than I was when stationed in DC. She was a 3rd tier desk jockey.

    If, as the vaunted “company” claims now, she was covert, kindly explain why the stupid bint had a parking lot sticker for Langley on her car. Explain why she is listed in “Who’s Who” for the District as the wife of Joe Wilson. Explain why she regularly identified herself as “working down at Langley”…..her husband introduced her as “my wife at CIA”. And why the hell was she and her office listed in the government phonebook for the District? If that is the “company’s” version of covert, they aren’t the guys I once knew. I actually looked up the phone number myself. That’s covert??

    You are spewing garbage Deej.

    Semper Fi

  83. Vergeltung Comment by Vergeltung

    I’m glad for Scoots. The whole thing just seemed like a non-starter and a patisan witch hunt. what a waste of time and money!

  84. WayneB Comment by WayneB

    Well, even though this article is talking about Karl Rove, it also says the law covering the issue requires that the person knows that the agent is covert:

    PHILLIPS: Well, aside from maybe partisan politics, looking strictly at the law that you drafted, do you see any evidence, according to this law, any evidence of any criminal wrongdoing?

    SANFORD: No, I think it’s pretty clear that what Karl Rove said to Time magazine’s Matthew Cooper doesn’t even come close to the kind of knowing violation that is required by the act. Really, the act really requires an intent to harm national security, and that certainly can’t be said in these circumstances, I think.

    PHILLIPS: All right. Now, we’ve heard a lot about the act, but let’s look at it, actually read this portion of Section 421 of the act:

    “… knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent, and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States …”

    So in other words, what you’re saying, the reason there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing is because Karl Rove didn’t do anything wrong because he didn’t know that Plame was covert.

    Why did this investigation continue again?

  85. WayneB Comment by WayneB

    Sorry, that post was aimed at DJ’s statement about the CIA saying Plame was covert at the time. If her covert status wasn’t known (and I can’t locate it, but I have heard of another person who helped write the law saying that Plame wasn’t even covered by it), then why did Fitzgerald continue the investigation, when it was no longer relevant?

  86. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    franksalterego @ 64 and 65:

    But Clinton did it!

    How predictable.

    Wasn’t this supposed to be the administration that was supposed to restore dignity and integrity to the White House and government?

    You want to know why you highly skewed numbers for the Clinton administration different than the current one?

    Simple. For the first six years there was absolutely no accountability. No oversight, no investigations, no nothing.

    During the Clinton years, a new “investigation” was opened up almost every day. The man couldn’t flush his toilet without a congressional hearing.


    The amazing thing is that there are people who think that because previous administrations might have gotten away with this crap that it is alright to continue doing it. Somehow, it excuses people for committing crimes.

    Make no mistake about it: Libby committed crimes. If someone else had committed these crimes, they would be serving a prison sentence right now — and there ARE people serving prison sentences for exactly the same crimes.

    But you think it is alright to interupt the legal system for political favortism.

    The reason Bush didn’t give Libby a full pardon (yet) is to give cover to Libby so that he can continue to claim Fifth Amendment protections if he is called to testify before Congress. As long as he is still under a criminal sentence he can claim this protection.

  87. Unregistered Comment by Smitty

    Libby’s allies?

    Uh who would that be, Bill & Hillary Clinton, Marc Rich & the Ayolloh Khomehni?

    There is no Republican support for Scooter Libby pardon, Ramos & Compean yes Scooter no.

  88. Unregistered Comment by cas

    Hi Emperor,
    I was going to add my two cents of disagreement with your claim in this post, but the comment by DJ Allyn, ITW just above pretty much sums up why this is a travesty. I’d just add that there is likely a lot more illegality yet to be found at the VP’s office, though I doubt that we will ever get to the bottom of it.
    Take care

  89. WayneB Comment by WayneB

    Oh, and here’s another consideration: Libby’s name has been drug through the mud for how many years now? In most cases, that would be a consideration in the final sentencing. I didn’t see any indication of that here, if you’re going to talk about, “Other people are sentenced the same way”.

  90. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    because previous administrations mighthave gotten away with this crap

    C’mon, DJ, you’re smarter than that! You know good and well lots of this crap occurred during the Clinton administration. The hypocrisy of the left is amazing…all of you complain about Bush, and co., but not ONE of you will admit any wrongdoing on the part of the Clintons. But then, one expects that sort of behavior from the democrats…

  91. SSG Fuzzy Comment by SSG Fuzzy

    Wow, isn’t it amazing how well DJ’s avatar accurately portrays the nonstop nonsense that he spews!

  92. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Cas,

    You don’t have much faith in a new democrat administration, do you? You really think that the dems in office won’t order up investigation after investigation? I think this is just the beginning. Just remember when Hillary get in, that she is a MASTER of obfuscation, deceit, and lies.

    And when HER administration engages in as bad, or worse, than the Bush administration, I expect you and DJ to come back here and admit it…well DJ might…I doubt that YOU will have the guts.

  93. jaybear Comment by jaybear

    DJ sez:

    Make no mistake about it: Libby committed crimes. If someone else had committed these crimes, they would be serving a prison sentence right now — and there ARE people serving prison sentences for exactly the same crimes.

    yep, just like there are people serving lengthy jail sentences for stealing top secret documents DJ, but sandy berger ain’t serving no time buddy.

    During the Clinton years, a new “investigation” was opened up almost every day. The man couldn’t flush his toilet without a congressional hearing.

    I tell my high school students and my own kids this DJ:

    if you build a rep as a liar or gangster or troublemaker, then you paint a big bullseye on yourself and anytime ANYTHING goes wrong, you will be pointed at because you’ve earned that stigma from your previous misdeeds, guilty or innocent, you will be looked at.

    I was never more embarrassed to be a conservative than when the whole monica thing flared up. That was a national embarrassment, but you miss one important point….Ken Starr was directed to investigate that affair by his boss: janet reno. She told him to pursue that thing. One could make the argument that maybe he was getting too close to the truth about clinton’s north korean financial ties or something and reno needed to get him off the trail….

    just speculating

  94. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

    The amazing thing is that there are people who think that because previous administrations might have gotten away with this crap that it is alright to continue doing it.

    I know these people.
    They were hollerin’”WhataboutReagan-contra!” when klintoon was lying about slime-ing the oval office carpet to congress.
    Yep, they’re out there.

  95. franksalterego Comment by franksalterego

    franksalterego @ 64 and 65:

    But Clinton did it!

    How predictable.
    –Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Make no mistake.

    It is NOT my intention to mitigate Bush.

    But, I sure as hell won’t let anyone forget, or sweep under the rug, what a scum-bag presidency the Clin-TOON era was.

    The Left doesn’t have a leg to stand on, criticising ANYONE.

  96. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    1) I. “Scooter” Lewis Libby was convicted of being a Republican in the Peoples Republic of New Columbia.

    2) There was no underlying crime - that is, Valerie Plame was not a covert agent, had not been out of the Country for the immediate 5 years proceeding Novak’s article, was NOT being protected by the CIA, therefore, she did not fit the definition of the Identities Protection Act. It does not matter what the CIA alleged to the Justice Department in the memo asking for an investigation. The law is clear on this. The fact that both Plame and Wilson bragged about her being a “CIA Agent”, and were listed in “Who’s Who in D.C.” with her employment information should make this obvious even to someone as stupid as Schmucky Schumer.

    3) BEFORE THE APPOINTMEMT of Fitzgerald, the Justice Department knew thet the “leak” was from Richard Armitage, who has never been given a secret that his handlers don’t want leaked. He is a loudmouth gossip. Since the Justice files on this matter were transferred to Fitzgerald before he was sworn in, he was aware of the lack of pressing ANY need for an investigation. Instead, he went on a fishing expedition, hoping to make SOMETHING stick to SOMEONE.

    4) Libby was never allowed to present evident (of which there was an abundance) of # 2 and # 3. Instead, the Prosecutor actively hid these facts from a jury that was itching to put some Republican in jail.

    5) There is every reason to believe that a Judge that actually reviews the evidence will reverse everything.

    Dave, just because a Republican appointed a Judge is no reason to believe that the Judge is a Republican. David Hackett Souter (Bush 41) could not be called a Republican by any stretch of the imagination. Or John Paul Stevens (Ford).

  97. Nanashi Comment by Nanashi

    Here’s the way I understand it, put into much better words by someone whose blog I read regularly:

    In 2002, Joe Wilson, husband of Valarie Plame, is asked to travel to Niger to disprove the yellow cake claim, at the request of the CIA. When he returned, he published an editorial, titled “What I Didn’t Find in Niger.” He also claims to have filed a report with the administration. However, said report may or may not have actually made it anywhere once it entered the bureaucracy. As a side note, Wilson’s report was based on interviewing officials in Niger. This is somewhat akin to determining that our jails are full of innocent people by asking the inmates if they’re guilty.

    On 14 July, 2003, conservative columnist, and opponent of the Iraq War, Robert Novak, published an article titled “Mission to Niger,” in which he mentions Valarie Plame’s identity as an employee of the CIA. It does not appear that Novak was aware of her alleged status as a covert agent.

    At the end of 2003, Patrick Fitzgerald was assigned as the Special Counsel to investigate the issue. Shortly thereafter, the administration gave him the name of the leak – Deputy Secretary of State, Richard Armitage (a critic of the War in Iraq). Thus the name of the man who supposedly sabotaged national security was known. None the less, Fitzgerald proceeded with the investigation, calling witnesses and issuing subpoenas to senior administration officials.

    Along the way, I. Lewis Libby was questioned, and gave incorrect information. This led to charges of perjury, and an eventual conviction. Charges against Armitage have not been filed, and Fitzgerald deems the case to be closed. So we are left with the man known to have committed treason against the United States (or so the democrats called it when they thought Rove was still a suspect) charged with no crime, and a third party convicted of a process crime. This is like being convicted as an accessory to murder where no murder has been committed.

    As for the nature of the charges against Libby, they are equally absurd. Maybe all of the jurors have photographic memories, but I would find myself hard-put to remember the details of a relatively unimportant (at the time) conversation I had a year ago. I doubt I’m alone in that.

    And, speaking of the jury, we need to add one more item to our timeline - the day after I. Lewis Libby was convicted, members of the jury were expressing their disappointment at not getting a shot at Rove or Cheney. They considered Libby a substitute for the bigger fish that they wanted to be a part of frying. Hard to believe? Not really. Washington D.C. and Northern Virginia is an area that owes its livelihood to government solutions. The area is predominantly democrat, and particularly activist. As Libby’s attorney explained, he used up all his dismissals in short order, and had to take who was left for his jury pool.

    So now we come to present time. George Bush has commuted Libby’s jail term. This, of course, has caused a big fuss on both sides of the aisle. Most conservatives are mad that it was not a full pardon. We believe that the basic facts of the case are questionable and that Libby, in fact, did not commit the crime of which he was convicted. The Democrats are upset that they aren’t getting their pound of flesh. They are more than willing to sacrifice an innocent man to give Bush a black eye (and he’s eager to help them, by responding in half measures). We now have the spectacle of Hillary Clinton trying to draw a fine line between Bush pardoning a man he doesn’t think is guilty, and her husband pardoning men he knows quite well were guilty. The husband, by the way, who got away with similar charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. We get Ted Kennedy, who never paid for his actions at Chappaquiddick, calling for accountability for the Bush administration. Now tell me there’s not something repulsive about that. And, all the while, they expect us to smile and nod, and not actually see through their sanctimony.

    You know, I don’t mind if the democrats lie to us. I expect that. What I mind is that they’re insulting our intelligence by not even trying to make it convincing. It’s like Bart Simpson, with his hand in the cookie jar, saying “I didn’t do it!”

    And, as for Bush, I hope I’m just jumping to conclusions, that he’s let Libby flail in the wind. I hope that he’s waiting for the appeals process, because a presidential pardon can not give Libby back his reputation. Only the courts can give back what they’ve stolen from him.

  98. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    Nanashi:

    Might I have the source for that, please? Looks like an iteresting site.

  99. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

    This:

    members of the jury were expressing their disappointment at not getting a shot at Rove or Cheney. They considered Libby a substitute for the bigger fish that they wanted to be a part of frying.

    ..smell’s like mistrial.. if were for real..

    After a buncha’ booleanated searches, no joy.
    Can’t find any quotes like above.

  100. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    photomunkey
    If I dare question your logic:

    “Hey, another cheerful thought I had: Do you suppose that liberals suffer from the same sort of thinking that Islamic Fascists do? Let’s examine, shall we?”

    all but posssibly no. 5 do not apply. It’s funny that you list issues that apply all across the political spectrum and apply them solely to liberals.

    1. Both fly into a rage at the slightest provocation.
    -I think I would easily include the right in that. From what I’ve seen of the conservative talk shows, they would apply.
    -people disagree with me all the time. The only time I fly into a rage is when the comments are really nasty.

    2. Both are incapable of doing any wrong, in their own eyes.
    -well, isn’t everybody? left/liberal/right/libertarian

    3. Both refuse to listen to any point of view other than their own.
    -I would make the attacks on DJ for posting alternate viewpoints an example
    -I’m atypical, but here I am on a right-wing blog
    -that is probably true for some liberals (I call them “fascist liberals”).

    4. Both are incapable of letting go of a grudge.
    -Well–can’t imagine that on the Right (elsewhere, generally). However, I think I’ve even heard bitching about FDR here.

    5. Both are apt to pose solutions to problems which make no sense (i.e. Did he steal an apple? Cut off his hand! Did he lie to a jury? $250k fine and 30 months in jail for him!)

    “There are probably more, but I think that makes it easier to see why liberals and Islamic radicals are so chummy with one another. They all have the same mental imbalance!”

    It’s interesting that you would consider having different points of view to be a “mental imbalance.” Doesn’t that invoke criterion #3? (I guess we better quickly train more mental health professionals if 1/3 (?) of the country is mentally imbalanced.)

    -since when are liberals chummy with jihadists?
    That’s news to me. I think they/we do not want to get blown up any more than Republicans do. Personally, I would fight to the death if they were on American soil and am kind of sorry I can’t have a gun.

    -do liberals commonly force their religious beliefs on other people like Jihadists do?

  101. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

    Cheapshot

    After a buncha’ booleanated searches, no joy.
    Can’t find any quotes like above.

    For what it’s worth, I vividly remember the jury foreman rushing out to a press conference after the verdict, like a crack whore to her fix, and saying almost exactly those same words. Sorry no linkie. Maybe if if I could do a Vulcan mindmeld with the intertubiewebbythingy. Keep looking, your google fu is much stronger than mine and I know it’s out there.

  102. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

    -do liberals commonly force their religious beliefs on other people like Jihadists do?

    Left your self wide open their PC. See the Gorebicle and the cult of global wormening. Just one example that came to my fatigue numbed brain. Well there’s another one, but it shall remain unmentioned to keep this thread from getting thread jacked and sent into the 300 comments range ;-)

  103. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    Crunchie
    Hi, nice to see you.

    I’m sure you would be shocked to know that I differ in opinion.

    Global warming is a scientific theory. Who worships or prays to a theory?

    I was thinking more of people roaming around going “Thou shalt be Lutheran!”

    I’m so intrigued by the thing you dare not mention. Maybe you could e-mail me?

  104. L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter Comment by L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter

    Crunchie
    Hi, nice to see you.

    Huh? She must have eyes in places where I ain’t even got places!

    I’m sure you would be shocked to know that I differ in opinion.

    Yup… and I’m shocked to find Gambling going on in the casino.

    Global warming is a scientific theory. Who worships or prays to a theory?

    AlGore. And his High Priestess is the Pope-ra Ohprah.

    I was thinking more of people roaming around going “Thou shalt be Lutheran!”

    Imagine that! And I didn’t think you capable!

    I’m so intrigued by the thing you dare not mention. Maybe you could e-mail me?

    It’s called “Bangie Thing”, you wouldn’t like her when she’s pissed.

  105. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    Mope

    “AlGore. And his High Priestess is the Pope-ra Ohprah.”
    Actually, my spouse can’t stand him, since he is such a shameless self-promoter. Promoting a cause does not suggest praying to it. The global warming theory predicts all sorts of horrible events. Maybe you could pray to prevent it from happening, but for the life of me I don’t see how you could pray to a scientific theory.

    “Bangie Thing”
    I’ll take your word on the pissed off thing. But she gets mentioned periodically and does not generate hundreds of posts. I think the mention was for something else. I guess my curiousity will remain unsated.

  106. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    Cheapshot (#99):

    Can’t imagine why you didn’t find any of them. A couple of these “Interviews” were broadcast live in the D.C. area on our four local stations (NBC, FOX, ABC & CBS). When the conviction itself was being reported as “Breaking News” on the national cable chanels.

    A couple of the jury members stated flat out that the reason they voted to convict was because there were no “bigger fish” coming.

  107. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    One I remember was the Jury Forman stating in no uncertain terms that he wanted to get a shot at “The Vice President who sent Libby out to make the leak”. Meaning they convicted based on things never allowed into evidence; ie. 1) that there was a leak 2) committed by Libby 3) upon the order of the VP 4) that was illegal.

    See what that ate up closing argument by the “republican” prosecutor, allowed by the “republican” judge did to Mr. Libby? Any doubt why I am sure that an actual UNBIASED judge is gonna toss this one out?

  108. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

    OK, I was lookin’ for stuff from broadcasts (thanks for the quotations hint) quotes not transcribed,
    Wow.
    It is for real..

    , I vividly remember the jury foreman rushing out to a press conference after the verdict, like a crack whore to her fix,

    And there’s nothing that can be done when the jury is obviosly a lynch-mob?
    No mistrial?

  109. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    And there’s nothing that can be done when the jury is obviosly a lynch-mob?
    No mistrial?

    Certainly. Problem is, first ya gotta find a judge who doesn’t wanna do the same thing . . .

  110. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson

    BJ and his small band of left leaning whores in this group continue to fall on their swords for Bubba, 6+ years after the “White Trash Bastard Son of an Arkansas Whore” leaves office in shame.

    Pretty damn funny……

    hOOt

  111. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

    I’m with you on that Hoot. (#110) Happy Fourth Everyone!

  112. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

    AL GORE III JAILED AFTER DUI, DRUG BUST AT 100MPH – IN A PRIUS…

  113. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Comment by hOOt Gibson

    BJ and his small band of left leaning whores in this group continue to fall on their swords for Bubba, 6+ years after the “White Trash Bastard Son of an Arkansas Whore” leaves office in shame.

    Pretty damn funny……

    hOOt

    As I recall, Clinton left office with a fairly high approval rating — substantially higher than Bush’s 20-something points and falling. He enjoys rockstar crowds just about everywhere he goes. Bush gets crowds, but most of them are protesting him.

    I was no real fan of Clinton, but when compared to Bush, he was the poster boy for intelligence and integrity.

    As to my “small band of left-leaning whores”, we hold the majority of opinion in this country right now.

    Olbermann summed it up fairly well:

    Were there any remaining lingering doubt otherwise, or any remaining lingering hope, it ended yesterday when Mr. Bush commuted the prison sentence of one of his own staffers.

    Did so even before the appeals process was complete; did so without as much as a courtesy consultation with the Department of Justice; did so despite what James Madison—at the Constitutional Convention—said about impeaching any president who pardoned or sheltered those who had committed crimes “advised by” that president; did so without the slightest concern that even the most detached of citizens must look at the chain of events and wonder: To what degree was Mr. Libby told: break the law however you wish—the President will keep you out of prison?

    In that moment, Mr. Bush, you broke that fundamental compact between yourself and the majority of this nation’s citizens—the ones who did not cast votes for you. In that moment, Mr. Bush, you ceased to be the President of the United States. In that moment, Mr. Bush, you became merely the President of a rabid and irresponsible corner of the Republican Party. And this is too important a time, Sir, to have a commander-in-chief who puts party over nation.

    It is you falling on swords. You choose to take a piss on the legal system in favor of the dictator/decider — the boy King.

    I have been waiting for someone here to bring up Marc Rich so I could point out the irony of I. Scooter Libby’s connection to both that pardon and his own commutation.

  114. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Bill Clinton…the poster boy for INTEGRITY? If that is so, then no such thing as integrity exists. Bill Clinton wouldn’t know how to find integrity in a dictionary.

    Sorry, DJ, you messed up with this one.

  115. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    And quoting Keith Olbermann is really pretty pathetic. You can do better than that, surely.

  116. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Bill Clinton…the poster boy for INTEGRITY? If that is so, then no such thing as integrity exists. Bill Clinton wouldn’t know how to find integrity in a dictionary.

    I said when compared to Bush, Clinton comes off as the poster boy for integrity.

    I wonder just how much dirt we’d have on Bush if Republicans had been as interested in Bush as they were in Clinton. I am willing to bet that there would be a lot more.

    Instead, they refused to do any oversight and let “The Decider” act as a King.

    And quoting Keith Olbermann is really pretty pathetic. You can do better than that, surely.

    He said everything that needed to be said. Over 70 percent of the people in this country agree with him on this. Furthermore, James Madison would agree also.

    Politics is about perception. It LOOKS like Bush gave Libby a pass because of his loyalty.

    I hear John Walker Lindh is asking for Bush to commute HIS 20-year sentence. Whaddya suppose the chances of that are?

  117. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    And how did I miss this from my friend Wes @ #67?

    My own suspicion about the Libby case is that Libby probably did lie to federal investigators, if only to save his own personal hide.

    Yep, this is what a federal prosecutor, a jury of twelve people, and a federal judge concluded. It is a felony crime for whatever reason you want to give for doing it.

    That doesn’t change the fact that 1) Patrick Fitzgerald’s investigation was fundamentally unjust and completely bogus

    The purpose of an investigation is to determine whether there was wrongdoing or not, and if so, what the scope of it was. Libby only had to tell the truth if there was nothing to hide as you suggest. He lied to the FBI agents investigating and he lied to the Grand Jury.

    For those of you unfamiliar with how a Grand Jury works, it is the members of the GJ that ask the questions and makes the final decision as to whether a prosecutor should file charges. Fitzgerald only presented the GJ the case.

    2) it’s just about impossible for any Republican to get a “fair trial” in DC, where liberals outnumber Republicans about four to one…and outnumber genuine conservatives about ten to one.

    Except you forget one tiny detail. The judge was appointed by a Republican, the prosecutor was appointed by a Republican, and two of the three appellate judges assigned the appeal are Republican.

    Nine out of the fourteen appellate judges in the DC Ciruit Court of Appeals were appointed by Republicans.

    Besides, even outside the Beltway, the majority of people in this country consider Libby to be guilty.

  118. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    Dave, quoting Olberman is getting really close to something akin to a Godwin’s Law violation. I cannot imagine a less credible source in the MSM.

    I wonder just how much dirt we’d have on Bush if Republicans had been as interested in Bush as they were in Clinton. I am willing to bet that there would be a lot more.

    As opposed to the antics of the democrats? “Investigate, investigate, investigate.”

    I really don’t think that Dubya had much choice. If Libby pays a fine, and it is found subsequently that the prosecution was without merit (as will happen), and that the Judge, Prosecutor and Jury played fast and loose, Libby will get the money back. If he is “on probation” for the next two years, that is without consequence. If Scooter spends two and a half years in jail, and THEN we discover, that, as we all suspect, he is indeed an innocent man, how does he get back that time?

    Myself, I would have gone for a full and complete pardon. I mean, it’s not like the Democrats are gonna hate him any more, right?

  119. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Dave, quoting Olberman is getting really close to something akin to a Godwin’s Law violation. I cannot imagine a less credible source in the MSM.

    Oh I can. How ’bout anyone from Fox News?

    Olbermann spoke from historical perspective in his latest rant, and maybe you should go listen to it.

    As opposed to the antics of the democrats? “Investigate, investigate, investigate.”

    Yes! After six years of no oversight, we NEED to find out what’s been happening. Apparently, a lot.

  120. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    Olberman wanted to start impeachment proceedings before Dubya was sworn in. He’s never spoken from a “Historical Perspective”, only out his ass.

    You, like all lefties, are just so used to only hearing one side of any argument, you have come to believe it is your God given right, and no one can force you into lisening to anything other than your own preconceptions.

    That may be why FoxNews has the highest rating of any cable news. CNN and MSNBC are perceived to be so biased that no one pays any attention anymore.

    Good luck with selling that.

  121. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    And on that note, I’m outta here for the evening. Dave, have a Happy Fourth of July, and may God Bless.

  122. Unregistered Comment by wizard

    There is something we all have to remember…

    With great power comes great responsibility.
    Mr. President… Be responsible (Slap. Slap)
    &
    Just because you can do something doesn’t necessarily mean that you should.
    &
    Mr. President, WTF are you thinking?
    You do remember what branch of the government you work in? (The Administrative)

    Bill Parker would be so disappointed!

  123. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

    PC

    I’m so intrigued by the thing you dare not mention. Maybe you could e-mail me?

    The E word darlin.

    I’ll take your word on the pissed off thing. But she gets mentioned periodically and does not generate hundreds of posts.

    Bangie is my lovely, gracious and long suffering better half and the few times she does go nooklear it’s not only a beautiful display of righteous indignation, it’s usually also quite well deserved.

  124. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    You, like all lefties, are just so used to only hearing one side of any argument, you have come to believe it is your God given right, and no one can force you into lisening to anything other than your own preconceptions.

    Which somehow explains how I come here to listen to YOU talk. :wink:

    I am in a business to listen to all sides of an issue. Much of what I read here and other places like it set up the program for the following day. It’s my job, and I do it well.

    A lot of times I get to actually talk to the people you only read about. I’m not bragging, I am just telling you my perspective. Some of these people are as you say — complete idiotsticks. Others aren’t.

    You have to admit that there are a LOT of things I tend to agree with you on, and some others where we might have minor differences of opinion. There are some that we probably will never agree on and that’s alright too.

    Olbermann doesn’t like Bush. He isn’t alone, given Bush’s approval ratings. Much of the stuff I read here about Bush is something Keith pointed out six months to a year earlier. And yes, he does use historical perspective in just about every thing he says.

    That may be why FoxNews has the highest rating of any cable news.

    You mean infotainment, right? Cable news is such a tiny fraction of the media share it is almost not worth mentioning. O’Reilly, hardly a ‘news’ show is Fox’s top draw at 2.2 million listeners per week, and that is early prime time. Broadcast news pulls that many and more each night.

    And on that note, I’m outta here for the evening. Dave, have a Happy Fourth of July, and may God Bless.

    You too. I will be having my steak this year out of a blender.

  125. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    O’Reilly, hardly a ‘news’ show is Fox’s top draw at 2.2 million listeners per week, and that is early prime time. Broadcast news pulls that many and more each night.

    Give it up with O’Reilly, et al. He is NOT news, and is not intended to BE news. He’s opinion, pure and simple. Some of what he talks about is news, but he’s not a “news person.”

    You obviously haven’t been keeping track of Katie Couric’s ratings. They are in the toilet. I guess she’s too “cute” for the news.

    BTW, Dave, how do you explain that the democrat congress has lower approval ratings than Bush does?

  126. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Forgot to ask, Dave, how’s it going with the teeth? Are you recovering all right? I can’t imagine having to pulverize everything all the time. Hopefully it won’t be for too much longer…

    Of course, banana milkshakes are just MADE for blenders…8-)

  127. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

    Olbermann doesn’t like Bush. He isn’t alone, given Bush’s approval ratings.

    Dave, would you just once  spare us the disingenuity?

    Olberdouche - and, for that matter, most all liberal hacks, wonks & talking heads - hate Bush because he refused to concede what Algore and his sycophant suckweasels thought was his divine right nearly seven years ago, then refused to back down when they tried to steal it through the courts.  Besides, the Demoscum hate the Republicans out of sheer principle anyway.

    We  dislike him because ever since then, he’s pretty much governed like…well, like one of you people - well towards the left.  Sure he’s made a couple of good Supreme Court nominations - blind pigs, truffles & all that - but only after making a shitty one.  The reason he’s in dutch with his base is because he’s been as much a RINO as any of the tools in the Imperial Socialist Congress.

    So spare us the crap about all sides hating him, mkay?  We have our reasons, and they ain’t yours.

    You mean infotainment, right?

    I’d sooner trust Fox News than your garden-variety Demoscum-controlled talking head, thanks.

  128. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Spats,

    Just wait until the “Fairness Doctrine” kicks in…Fox may be all that the conservatives have left…but only until the left figures out how to shut it down, as well.

  129. hOOt Gibson Comment by hOOt Gibson

    You folks need to stop feeding the troll…you know, that dimwitted hack BJ Allyn the small town, small IQed DJ….maybe, just maybe, the simple SOB will get the message and go away….marxist fucks like him only survive when they get attention.

    hOOt

  130. Cheapshot911 Comment by Cheapshot911

    Sorry Hoot, we’re joined with DJ at the node.
    He’s a remarkable web-page-gremlin hunter/squasher, critical to the operations of Majesty’s network.
    That other stuff is,,well,,yeah..

  131. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

    Sorry Hoot, we’re joined with DJ at the node.

    Not to mention, more importantly, that he’s a friend of mine and I happen to like him, even though we don’t agree 100% of the time. We don’t have to.

  132. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Give it up with O’Reilly, et al. He is NOT news, and is not intended to BE news. He’s opinion, pure and simple. Some of what he talks about is news, but he’s not a “news person.”

    I thought I said that.

    Frankly, the only “news” on FNC might be the crawlers at the bottom of the page.

    The only true cable “news” channel is Headline News, and even that is lackluster considering its 22-minute time frame.

    For me, “news” hss to be just that: News. No opinion, no news discussions. Just the fact, ma’am.

    Present the news from a plain desk with maybe a video background for reports from the field. Nix the high-end graphics, the theatrics, and mood music. The presenters should look like one of your neighbors — an average looking person with no multi-million dollar contract.

    The problem is, we took away the FCC requirements that broadcasters had to provide public, unbiased news for at least one hour a day in exchange for the use of the PUBLIC’s airwaves. (yes, we still own the airwaves that broadcasters use) Because of this, our news programs have become corporate propaganda machines, churning out only the news they want you to hear, in the flavor they want you to taste.

    How many of you watch the Sunday shows on TV? Have you ever wondered why there are some commercials being run that advertize businesses you could never buy a product from? BASF (”we don’t make the products you buy…”, Archer Daniels Midland, Boeing (been in the market for a 787 lately?) GE, Exxon Mobil, etc. These are major advertisers on these news programs for one reason only: they are buying “good press”. In other words, it is hush money.

    Can you name the only protected industry or business that is in the US Constitution?

    Olberdouche - and, for that matter, most all liberal hacks, wonks & talking heads - hate Bush because he refused to concede what Algore and his sycophant suckweasels thought was his divine right nearly seven years ago, then refused to back down when they tried to steal it through the courts.

    Hmmm, Bush v. Gore.

    Bush being the Petitioner and Gore the Respondent.

    And so the Supreme Court decided who won, not the people of Florida. It should have been allowed to run out its course. Instead, the count was stopped and left a LOT of questions still not answered to this day.

    THIS is what Olbermann has been saying all along. NOT that one person should have won but didn’t, but that it was never allowed a clear resolution.

    You folks need to stop feeding the troll…you know, that dimwitted hack BJ Allyn the small town, small IQed DJ….maybe, just maybe, the simple SOB will get the message and go away….marxist fucks like him only survive when they get attention.

    You seem to have this homo-erotic thing for me, doncha? You also crave attention and feel the need to fit in here? (how else would you explain needing to make all of your comments bold so they stand out, and then having to sign your name at the bottom of each one?

  133. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Not to mention, more importantly, that he’s a friend of mine and I happen to like him

    Okay, where do I send the $20 bill this time? Ya gotta quit doing that — you are going to make me go broke.

  134. Ten-Ten Comment by Ten-Ten

    For me, “news” has to be just that: News. No opinion, no news discussions. Just the fact, ma’am.

    And best of luck with that DJ.

    Unless you personally are a witness to the event being reported on….

    It WILL be colored in the hue that suits the reporters’ personal bias.

  135. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    Hi, Dave!

    You have to admit that there are a LOT of things I tend to agree with you on, and some others where we might have minor differences of opinion. There are some that we probably will never agree on and that’s alright too.

    Yes, yes and yes. Looking back and remembering some of our on-line discussions, we are probably at least on the same song north of 90% of the time, and on the majority of the remainder, we are approaching the same problem fron different prospectives. Case in point was the Shamnesty bill. You want stricter employer sanctions. I agree that that would be an important part of the final solution, but believe that building a fence needs to be done as well. We disagree about the order.

    And, I don’t particularly care for O’Reilly, either.

    I learn from you, you occasionally learn something from me, we discuss and meet in the middle most of the time. That is what politikin’ is supposed to be about, not what I see coming out of D.C. and the national parties, of late. Maybe we should run the country for a while . . .

    And so the Supreme Court decided who won, not the people of Florida. It should have been allowed to run out its course. Instead, the count was stopped and left a LOT of questions still not answered to this day.

    Aaaand I’m afraid this is one of the ones we are never going to agree about. The Supreme Court did not decide the election - they just directed that the Florida Supreme Court stop trying to change the election laws after the fact. The laws of Florida require that the Election results be cetified on a certain date, and that the FINAL authority is the legislature. The Florida Supremes tried to circumvent that, fairly blatantly. There have been (at least) six full recounts of the State of Florida 2000, doing both the entire State, and AlGore’s hand picked counties. Dubya won all of them. The closest count (the full, statewide hand count paid for by CNN) had Dubya up by 197 at the end. The re-re-re-re adinfuckingfinitum-counts of Broward, Palm Beach, et al. actually showed Gore losing ground.

    THIS is what Olbermann has been saying all along. NOT that one person should have won but didn’t, but that it was never allowed a clear resolution.

    No, two days after the election, he was publicly stating, on his “newscast” that Bush had stolen the election. He hasn’t come to peace since.

    ===============

    Dave, be well, and may The Lord shine upon you and yours.

  136. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    And best of luck with that DJ.

    Unless you personally are a witness to the event being reported on….

    It WILL be colored in the hue that suits the reporters’ personal bias.

    I am old enough to remember news just like what I described.

    The point I am trying to make here is that most of the money that goes into putting on a news reporting program goes into production values, high-paid ‘personalities’, and glitz. The actual gathering and reporting of news takes second seat to making the SHOW look good.

    LC SkyeChild mentioned Katie Couric as an example. How much money went into just the focus groups to see what she’d be like as anchor of CBS? How much money is she being paid to present the news? Stock options? Speaking engagements, book deals? Trademarks?

    Just for someone to read us the news?

    How about the set itself, the production. How many millions of dollars did it cost to put all that together?

    Just to have someone tell us what is going on in the world?

    It never used to be about broadcasters making money on the news programs. If anything, they lost money. But they were required to provide at least one hour per day of local and national news in exchange for the use of our publically-owned airwaves.

    They could have broadcasted this news at 1 AM in the morning if they wanted to.

    But they chose to do it at 5 and 6 PM because that was when people got home from work and were sitting down to dinner or drinks. The idea was that if a broadcaster had a good enough news reporting, the audience would stick around for the prime-time shows.

    and it worked.

    But then Reagan started dismantling some of the FCC regulations — one of them being that broadcasters no longer HAD to provide a public service of reporting the news. So since 1986, our news media has slowly but surely swirled down the drain to what it has become now: Infotainment.

    Newspapers, the original ‘press’ in this country, can no longer compete with broadcast media and the Internet. Presses are shutting down, operations consolidating because they are being bought out by one or two mega corporations.

    Even the Internet is nothing more that the regurgitation of what people see on TV or hear on the radio.

    You and I both base our thoughts and opinions on what we are told about the news that passes through the four or five corporate filters that provide such news.

    Thirty years ago, there were hundreds of broadcasting and publishing companies. Today there are roughly twelve.

    At this rate, in the next few years, there will only be one.

    One source of news.

    And it will be the government’s news.

    If you think I am wearing a tinfoil hat on this, look around. Look for yourself. Open your eyes.

  137. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    HOOT:

    This isn’t my site, so I have tried to stay above some of this. Now, I fnd that I cannot.

    I don’t know if D.J. Allyn considers me to be a friend or not, but I most CERTAINLY consider HIM to be one of mine. Your gratuitous insults grow tiresome after a while, and quite frankly, you are beginning to piss me off. You come in, crap on the rug, and expect to be welcomed with open arms. I’m throwing the bullshit flag.

    Dave has done more for this site than you have accomplished in the sum total of your life. Though, as I am sure you have noticed, we have frequent arguments, he is truly one of the world’s good guys, and deserves better than your shit. When you insult him, you insult me.

    You might accurately apply several labels to him, but “Troll” is not, never has been, and never will be accurate. Neither is “Marxist”.

    If you have a problem with that, I really don’t give a flying damn. Now, piss off.

  138. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

    Sorry Dave, I couldn’t hold that one back any longer.

  139. LC NCLivingBrit Comment by LC NCLivingBrit

    LC Wil has a point…. While DJ Allyn is a trifle out there with some of his opinions (I mean Bush is the Chosen One and he -will- bring balance to the Force dammit!) he’s a solid member of the Rott team.

    It still makes me chuckle than a Liberal does the nuts and bolts tech to let us Right-wingers swap opinions on how wrong-headed his notions are….

    :D

    We may not agree with him, but shouting insults just cause you don’t agree sort of smacks of….. dare I say it….. The Left.

  140. Ten-Ten Comment by Ten-Ten

    You and I both base our thoughts and opinions on what we are told about the news that passes through the four or five corporate filters that provide such news.

    I would suggest that You and I base our thoughts and opinions upon rational thought and due diligence.

    The fact that You and I don’t see eye to eye on many issues proves this to be true.

    For instance; the aforementioned Bill O’Reilly- The man is a self aggrandizing, posturing blow hard. But I tend to agree with him on the issues.

    I try to filter political bone-headedness through the Constitution. So, whether it’s Brit Hume or Wolf Blitzer telling me that Congress has my best interest at heart, I’m gonna call bullshit based upon my concept of Constitutionality.

    Through your experiences and beliefs, your concept of right or wrong may be different than mine, but you obviously didn’t get your mind set from some twinkie like Katie Couric. You used your intellect to arrive at your conclusions.

  141. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    I think you missed what I was saying, Ten-Ten.

    You can have your core beliefs and opinions — that is something that you acquire over time. They aren’t always static, they adjust and morph over that same period of time.

    What I was talking about was what and how information is divulged to us.

    We are treated with stories about Aruba, Paris Hilton, Jon Benet Ramsey as if these are so rare in occurence that they warrant back-to-back live coverage for weeks. Meanwhile, we have important stories that go largely unreported or barely mentioned at all.

    I see the same complaints about the “Left-biased media” here as I do about the “Right-biased media” on the left.

    The interesting thing is that BOTH sides are complaining about the same media!

    I would say our media is broken, but it isn’t. It just isn’t working for us. It has been hijacked by mega corporations who are only giving us what they want us to know.

    If it were a food, it would be nothing but empty calories.

    I learn from you, you occasionally learn something from me, we discuss and meet in the middle most of the time. That is what politikin’ is supposed to be about, not what I see coming out of D.C. and the national parties, of late. Maybe we should run the country for a while . . .

    I am constantly learning, Wil. I know a lot of things, but not enough to say I know everything. I am even humble to admit that I can be wrong on occasion.

    I don’t know if D.J. Allyn considers me to be a friend or not, but I most CERTAINLY consider HIM to be one of mine.

    Sure we are, Wil. We have our agreements and disagreements from time to time, but who doesn’t? I would much rather have friends that I can disagree with than friends I agree with 100 percent.

    It keeps things from getting boring.