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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Great Moments in PR Fuckups
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So there we were, cruising through Dallas in the Imperial Motorcade when, all of a sudden, a big yellow DART bus crosses the road in front of us, sporting a giant ad for a new movie.

Nothing wrong with that, capitalism is a wonderful thing, but something struck His Majesty as slightly, shall we say, boneheadedly moronic in the tag line for said movie, proudly displayed in 256pt fonts:

“ONE NATION… UNDER DOG”

Try to spell “dog” backwards. Hysterically funny, isn’t it? And that’s leaving the whole question about the Pledge of Allegiance out of it.

Now, before anybody succumbs to the temptation and starts accusing me of hyperventilating, let me make a few things clear: I’m not suggesting that Disney, dumb as they are, are part of a Vast Conspiracy to Ridicule the One True Faith™ or that they’re deliberately taking a swipe at, oh, 80% of their target demographic, I’m just suggesting that maybe they didn’t quite think that one through before they started plastering buses and billboards with that fantastically “clever” tag line.

Consider it tragically belated friendly advice.

You might want to consider firing everybody in marketing. From a cannon. Into the nearest large body of water.

Morons.

70 Responses to “Great Moments in PR Fuckups”
  1. MuscleDaddy Comment by MuscleDaddy

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    I guess that, because I spent a good portion of my childhood watching UnderDog on TV …

    - and because putting the whole ‘Good vs. Evil’ thing in terms THAT simple is necessary for kids that age…

    - and because it was one of my earliest exposures to what would BECOME
    ‘Truth, Justice and the American Way’,
    I just couldn’t get that worked up about it.

    Different perspective, from one who came up through it and never had occasion to think of it as ‘trivial’ - hence, ‘trivializing’ never got factored in.

    There’s no need to fear - UnderDog is here.

    - MuscleDaddy (probably not ‘first’ by now)

  2. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    I thought it was rather cute, myself. Underdog — Under Dog.

    You should lighten up a bit. It isn’t like it was satirizing a sacred religious text. (although, Monty Python did it quite well)

    “One nation under God” didn’t appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, during the McCarthy era and communism scare, Congress passed a bill, which was signed into law, to add the words “under God.”

    The original version said:

    “I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

    In 1924 it was changed to:

    “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

    and finally, in 1954 we end up with:

    “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

    I’m not suggesting that Disney, dumb as they are, are part of a Vast Conspiracy to Ridicule the One True Faith™ or that they’re deliberately taking a swipe at, oh, 80% of their target demographic,

    Although you sound like someone connected to Disney was ridiculing your faith.

    I don’t see it that way.

    Contrary to what is stated in the Pledge, this isn’t “one nation under God”. There is a fairly large demographic in this country that doesn’t believe in God, and those that do, don’t necessarily believe in the same God.

    This tagline didn’t single out ANY religion, nor did it even mention a religion or faith. That was something you read into it, and I would suggest you are being a little over-sensitive.

  3. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    As one who grew up watching Underdog too, I really don’t see much wrong with this…..however, I might have taken the sensibilities of Christians and Patriots in mind when I was thinking up a catch phrase for this movie. It’s a family oriented flick right? most G or PG rated movie goers tend to be believers right? well, it makes no financial sense to piss off such a large demographic of movie goers if you ask me.

    DJ, you’re a little off with your reference to the Under God line in the pledge.

    Actually it was inspired by the line in Lincoln’s Gettysburg address…given 90 years BEFORE Mc Carthyism…..the line went something like this:

    “that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”

    It wasn’t some paranoid red fearing statement like you infer, President Eisenhower was an ardent student of the Civil War, even living in Gettysburg after his retirement…He was inspired by Lincoln and what he said at Gettysburg and thought it was a good thing to add to the pledge.

  4. MuscleDaddy Comment by MuscleDaddy

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    DJ Sez:

    Contrary to what is stated in the Pledge, this isn’t “one nation under God”. There is a fairly large demographic in this country that doesn’t believe in God, and those that do, don’t necessarily believe in the same God.

    Aaahh…

    But then we get into the matter of whether or not God cares what you believe.

    It’s one nation on a round earth under the sun - even if you happen to think that said earth is flat and the ’sun’ is really a VRWC plot to keep you fat, happy and trapped inside the Dyson’s sphere.

    You might just be amazed to learn how little the ‘Powers That Be’ think …of what you think.

    - MuscleDaddy

  5. Unregistered Comment by mkfreeberg

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    I wonder where Lincoln got this crazy notion.

    It could be…the Declaration of Independence itself, which has the task of laying out the justification for this crazy experiment in the first place.

    And it relies utterly on the notion of a “Creator” in completing this logical task. Not just a little bit. Completely. Without that Creator, the Revolution becomes a simple selfish exercise in treason against the Crown by a bunch of greedy taxpayers. Nothing noble about it.

    The position of the atheist in America, therefore, is reduced to “Well now that the Revolution has been safely fought and won and we can AFFORD to get rid of God, I for one would like to do so; can I get an Amen??” It’s the position of a homeowner who sees nothing wrong with shooting the firefighter, now that the house is no longer on fire.

    God is the source of our rights, without which there was no point to enduring the enormous sacrifices involved in throwing off those British shackles in the first place. So you see, whether the phrase was introduced in 1954, or 1854, or 44 BC, has no relevance to the question at all.

    On the Underdog question…gonna have to tally another vote that Your Majesty is being a little prickly here. But granted, if it was a different religion being slighted I have strong doubts the issue would’ve come up. Seems to me “Infinite Justice” would be a great tagline for Underdog, and would on earth would be wrong with that?

    I keed, I keed…

  6. Unregistered Comment by Nobraner

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    Quoth DJ…

    There is a fairly large demographic in this country that doesn’t believe in God, and those that do, don’t necessarily believe in the same God.

    That may or may not be true; however, I think that Misha was really saying that no Disney should sue the shit out of whatever marketing company was stupid enough to piss off a significant portion of their target market. Let’s face it: it’s poor business to offend your potential buyers.

  7. Vergeltung Comment by Vergeltung

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    I thought it was rather cute, myself. Underdog — Under Dog.
    You should lighten up a bit. It isn’t like it was satirizing a sacred religious text. (although, Monty Python did it quite well)

    I agree. it’s just a movie about Underdog, and it’s just a simple play on words. takes more than that to get my ultra-conservative undies in a bunch. :em69:

  8. Deathknyte Comment by Deathknyte

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    I wonder how many kids know who underdog is? It was an old cartoon when I was watching it back in the late 70’s and early 80’s.

    Underdog

  9. AyUaxe Comment by AyUaxe

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    It matters whether it’s some PETA BS or “There’s no need to fear, Underdog is here!” The former is gross heresy and more than a little irritating. The latter is just good yucks. Would that we were One nation, Under dog. Better than one nation under Hildebeast or Omammy or any other donk, anyway. Better still, pisslamists really won’t like it. :em93:

  10. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Oh, I’m quite well acquainted with the history of the Pledge of Allegiance and no, once again, I’m not suggesting that there was any intentional slight here, I just think that a couple of marketing bozos forgot to engage their brains while brainstorming.

    Get that? Unintentional brainfart.

    Am I offended? Am I about to burn the Heirs’ entire Disney collection? Am I readying a mob in preparation of a march with the slogan “Behead Those Who Insult G-d?”

    Sheesh, now somebody else needs to lighten up. Of course I’m not.

    But unless you went to a school with remarkably low standards, marketing and PR’s goal isn’t “not to offend”, it’s “to entertain and attract.”

    But hey, if all you need to do in order to be good at marketing is to avoid fueling a homicidal rage in your audience, then I’m available for hire immediately. I can meet those standards in my sleep, even with English as my second language, so start sending the offers in. I’ll even work cheap, compared with the clownsuits currently landing enormous paychecks.

  11. LC Shamalama Comment by LC Shamalama

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    B.S.

    Sorry Sir Emperor Misha I.
    Not fantastically “clever”.
    Not forgot to engage their brains.
    Not unintentional.
    Indeed it was an intentional play on words.
    You give them too much credit at being stupid. There would have been NO SUCH POSSIBILITY AT AN OFFENSE were it to, even at a tangent, touch Islam.

    I liked Underdog on TV (yes, I am THAT old) with Wally Cox as the voice of the hero. I have liked the previews and trailers of the Disney movie and will see it once it makes it to DirecTV.

    But this was intended.

    My 2¢

  12. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Actually it was inspired by the line in Lincoln’s Gettysburg address…given 90 years BEFORE Mc Carthyism…..the line went something like this:

    The key word here is, inspired.

    But it wasn’t Francis Bellamy who was “inspired by” any of this in 1892, it was the Roman Catholic men’s group, the Knights of Columbus that mounted a campaign to add the words “under God” to the Pledge.

    The actual inspiration of Francis Bellamy was the expression of the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, an American Socialist. (say it isn’t so…)

    Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

    Do you consider that too “liberal” of a source for you? I will direct you to the CATO Institute, which asks the question, What’s Conservative about the Pledge of Allegiance?

    You might just be amazed to learn how little the ‘Powers That Be’ think …of what you think.

    Or even care, let alone know what anyone else thinks.

    I wonder where Lincoln got this crazy notion.

    You do realize that Lincoln had been dead almost thirty years before Bellamy wrote the original pledge — and that Bellamy wasn’t inspired by Lincoln?

    That may or may not be true; however, I think that Misha was really saying that no Disney should sue the shit out of whatever marketing company was stupid enough to piss off a significant portion of their target market. Let’s face it: it’s poor business to offend your potential buyers.

    Marketing is not going to make a move unless Disney signs off on it, so the idea of suing the marketing company is silly.

    As far as a ’significant portion’ being pissed off? I don’t really think that the majority of people would find this anything more than cute.

    Am I offended? Am I about to burn the Heirs’ entire Disney collection? Am I readying a mob in preparation of a march with the slogan “Behead Those Who Insult G-d?”

    Sheesh, now somebody else needs to lighten up. Of course I’m not.

    Was it a slow news day or something then? It sounded like you were a little irritated with the “One Nation Under Dog” thing.

    I saw it a couple of weeks ago on a bus and I was more irritated at the bus itself. (damn things think they own the fucking road because the law says we have to yield to them)

    I thought it was a damn clever play on words.

  13. MuscleDaddy Comment by MuscleDaddy

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    The Emperor Sez:

    But hey, if all you need to do in order to be good at marketing is to avoid fueling a homicidal rage in your audience, then I’m available for hire immediately.
    I can meet those standards

    Now, Majesty, you know that’s not true… :em93:

    - MuscleDaddy

  14. maxxdog Comment by maxxdog

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    There doesn’t seem to be much genuine creativity in marketing these days. Most of it appears to be aimed at idiots and morons and is irritating as hell. I do like the DQ Flamethrower commercials though. There’s been more than one day I’d like to spit a ball of fire at the boss. hehe
    I think they should’ve gone with “Underdoghu Akbar”! They certainly would’ve gotten some attention for their stupid movie.

  15. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Now, Majesty, you know that’s not true… :em93:

    Hey, I can do both. :em93:

    If “homicidal rage” is your game, I can deliver in a heartbeat. I’ve spent four decades honing my skills at pissing people off to a fine art, if I do say so myself but hey, I can switch it off too. Not sure that I can do what marketing used to be about, but I can certainly live up to the retarded standards that seem to be the norm nowadays.

    Was it a slow news day or something then? It sounded like you were a little irritated with the “One Nation Under Dog” thing.

    Irritated as in “how the heck do functional retards like that manage to keep a job?” way, yes. They’re idiots and, as you know, my hobby is to insult idiots.

    Other than that, my G-d is perfectly capable of taking care of Himself.

    I thought it was a damn clever play on words.

    “Clever?”

    Dave, fercryingoutloud, I think I first saw the “clever” reverse spelling of G-d on USENet about, I don’t know, 15 fucking years ago. That is about as “clever” as “yo mama wears combat boots, neener.”

    But, by all means, if that’s the prevailing current standard for “clever”, then I’m available for full-time consulting. I can spit out crap like that 24 hours a day without even having to turn on my brain.

    Quick, show of hands: How many thought this “cute” or “clever?” No, I don’t mean “didn’t find it offensive”, I mean “how many thought it clever?”

    I could be wrong, I could be overestimating the intelligence of my fellow human beings, Heaven knows I’ve done so before, so if that’s the case, please correct me. I’d hate to walk around thinking that people had progressed past Kindergarten if it’s not really the case. Which may very well be true. After all, the twits who, presumably, got paid to do the Head On commercials haven’t been publicly flogged and burned at the stake yet.

    (Yes, I know. Brand awareness. But I think that everybody is perfectly aware by now).

  16. LC Mrs. M-ITT™ Comment by LC Mrs. M-ITT™

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    It’s a pretty silly ad if you ask me.

    Personally I think it’s a deliberate ploy to fuel outrage. It’s very well documented that movies that get most any religious group upset tends to do make alot of money because of people curious to see what all the fuss is about. Remember “The Last Temptation of Christ”? Of course I am of the mind that the less anyone says about it the better. Movies like that tend to fall into the abyss of forgetfulness when it doesn’t get much press. Movie producers love negative press as much as positive. The more people know about it the more that will tend to go see it.

    The only ones they never have the balls to try to get a rise out of are the Mooslims. Funny how they feel safer insulting Christian faiths, while claiming that we are more dangerous than Muzzies. Wonder how much “respect” we would get if Southern Baptists decided to start beheading infidels and burning down movie theaters??

  17. MuscleDaddy Comment by MuscleDaddy

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    AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

    STOP! STOP!

    THIS ONE ISN’T THAT IMPORTANT!

    LAZY AD-GUYS!

    LET’S MOVE ON!!!

    - MuscleDaddy

  18. Unregistered Comment by leoni2

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    My comment.

    When I saw the ad, I groan, literaly. Otherwise, I couldn’t care less. I just could not get myself mad over it. Now, as for Disney getting its greedy little hands on a program which I’d loved watching as a kid and turning it into a live action feature, now that made my blood boiled. :em96: Guess what, Mickey. My brother and I aren’t planning on watching this dog, no matter how interesting the trailers look. :em08:

  19. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    O.K. MuscleDaddy,

    no more talk about UnderGod…er UnderDog, the movie will probably suck anyways.

    DJ, you say:

    But it wasn’t Francis Bellamy who was “inspired by” any of this in 1892, it was the Roman Catholic men’s group, the Knights of Columbus that mounted a campaign to add the words “under God” to the Pledge.

    to which I say: So What?
    if you don’t want to say “under God”, then don’t say it ferchrissakes….why does everything have to be a Federal issue with you guys, something “offends” the sensitivities of the lefties and it has to be banned instead of the leftists just choosing to not participate…..

    interesting that I caught this in your link on the historyvineyard:

    In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, ‘under God,’ to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

    Oh bullsheets, if you adhere to that level of Godophobia, then you might as well call our paper currency a prayer book, after all…it has In God We Trust written on it.

    As for the Cato link:

    From its inception, in 1892, the Pledge has been a slavish ritual of devotion to the state, wholly inappropriate for a free people.

    Oh double bullsheets, it’s neither slavish nor inappropriate for a free people. If we, as a free people, are forced to accept court ordered deviations from what was once the holy state of marriage…if we are forced, by threat of punishment under bogus hate crime laws, to stifle our distaste at amoral sexual lifestyles…if our children can be forced to sit through al gore’s crockumentary on global warming, and force fed how it is the God’s truth, without a dissenting view being presented….then what’s the problem with pledging allegiance to the nation that is free enough to allow all of that utopian shit to happen??

    to michael newdow and all of the other “advocates” with totally too much time on their hands: Hey!!, ya’ don’t like it here? then leave….see if you can profit so handsomely on your extremism in cuba or china or venezuela….flippin’ hypocrites.
    :em72:

  20. Viscount Ian S. Comment by Viscount Ian S.

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    I dunno. I think it was intentional (there’s an entire genre of jokes based around dyslexic people confusing “god” and “dog”) but I also don’t find it especially offensive either. It’s not like they were messing with a Bible quote or something.

  21. Son Of The Godfather Comment by Son Of The Godfather

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    Some guy’s up on “hate crime” charges for dunking a Koran in a toilet.

    A national campaign that makes a mockery of G_d goes unpunished…

    Next thing, we’ll have dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!

    And dogs are unclean!… Errr, at least in some religions… Me? I’d share a tootsie pop with my lab. :)

  22. aaron Comment by aaron

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    If they hadn’t broken Underdog into two words, it would have sounded the same and been less offensive in print, “One Nation, Underdog”. SOMEONE split the word into two.

    God & dog was also an subject in Annie Hall where Annie notes the reversed spelling.

    I’m also wondering how they’re going to deal with his “super energy pill”. Imagine a kid going to school with his “Underdog” ring containing a “vitamin”. Maybe they should get Barry Bonds or some Tour de France cyclists to help advertise the movie?

  23. LC 0311 crunchie Comment by LC 0311 crunchie

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    That is about as “clever” as “yo mama wears combat boots, neener.”

    Damn, there goes one of my best comeback lines.

  24. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    I’ll bet there are some red faces wearing white shirts right about now…….

  25. Zucca Fett Comment by Zucca Fett

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    I’m in agreement with most here, thy Rottiness.

    Let’s not get overly upset over something intended honestly to be no more than a cute, simple tagline, lest we become like the fabled ‘Religion of Peace’ who threaten lives over webcomics.

    Take a deep breath, Emperor and let it out slowly.

    T’aint something worth losing sleep over, yanno?

  26. Tom The Impaler Comment by Tom The Impaler

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    You might want to consider firing everybody in marketing. From a cannon.

    Into a brick wall 5 feet from the muzzle :em99:

    I thought the tag line was funny though.

  27. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    What pisses me  off about this film is that they’re doing it live action.

    Good Gawd Almighty™, if there was one flick that screamed for CGI for the main characters, it was this one.  Why’d they have to plug in real live dogs for it?  BASTARDS!!!!!

    Okay, off my soapbox now. 

  28. Lady Heather Comment by Lady Heather

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    I happen to think G-d does have a sense of humor, and is not overly sensitive, as some want to suggest, to things such as this.

    Dogs are a very good thing, what greater friend to humans would we find in other animal species?

  29. LC Joe D,  A&IG/GWN Comment by LC Joe D, A&IG/GWN

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    what greater friend to humans would we find in other animal species?

    Bikers, Lady H? :em99:

  30. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Dave, fercryingoutloud, I think I first saw the “clever” reverse spelling of G-d on USENet about, I don’t know, 15 fucking years ago. That is about as “clever” as “yo mama wears combat boots, neener.”

    To be honest, I wasn’t even thinking of the reverse of “Dog” when I saw the ad. I could clearly see that it was a (yes, clever)turn of words for Underdog the character.

    I don’t think that most people bother to read into the ad like you did.

    Besides, the “nation” that is under this particular “dog” is a fictional one. As I recall the old cartoon series, the characters were all dogs or some kind of animals imitating humans in their behavior. Underdog was their protector, ergo, one ‘nation’, under dog.

    It’s a pretty silly ad if you ask me.

    It’s a pretty silly outrage.

    It’s a kid’s movie. It shouldn’t be anything BUT silly. Is it going to be worth watching? I dunno, I didn’t like Underdog as a cartoon, so it really isnt anything that is going to interest me now in my mid-fifties.

    if you don’t want to say “under God”, then don’t say it ferchrissakes….why does everything have to be a Federal issue with you guys, something “offends” the sensitivities of the lefties and it has to be banned instead of the leftists just choosing to not participate…..

    “under God” doesn’t bother me one way or the other, Jay. Besides, there is still number of people out there who think that you are pledging something to “Richard Stands”.

    You might be surprised to learn that there are a VERY large segment of “lefties” who believe in God, just as there are some “Righties” who don’t.

    Then there are people like me who don’t believe in the Judeo-Christian, Islamic, “God”, but believe that there is a higher order to things that we cannot nor ever will comprehend.

    But that’s just me.

    Oh bullsheets, if you adhere to that level of Godophobia, then you might as well call our paper currency a prayer book, after all…it has In God We Trust written on it.

    As I said above: I could care less about whether “Under God”, OR “In God We Trust” are in our pledges or on our money. I was simply sharing a history on how they got there.

    For some reason, quite a lot of people think that the Pledge of Allegiance was there, in its present form since the beginning of this country, and to “tamper” with it by challenging the words in it is akin to blasphemy. They really have no idea who wrote it, when they wrote it, and why they wrote it. They also don’t know that it has been changed several times before it got to where we are today.

    As far as the “In God We Trust” on our money, here is an interesting history of how that got onto our coinage. It took almost another 93 years before “In God We Trust” made it to paper currency.

    Oh double bullsheets, it’s neither slavish nor inappropriate for a free people. (etc, etc)

    I never said I agreed with the CATO Institute’s view on this. (they are, after all, a Conservative think tank)

    I only included the link because it told the history of the two people behind the writing of the Pledge of Allegiance in case you complained that the first link was a “liberal propaganda” site. I was just showing that both the Right and the Left agree that the author and his cousin were both Socialists — a fact I found interesting, nothing more.

    I find the origins of much of our customs and practices to be interesting. I post it here NOT because I hate what it stands for, or anything like that, I just think that maybe someone else might find its origins interesting. That’s all.

    Hey!!, ya’ don’t like it here? then leave….see if you can profit so handsomely on your extremism in cuba or china or venezuela….flippin’ hypocrites.

    Actually, all three of those countries allow the practice of religion — especially China, where Buddhism and Taoism has been around for over 2000 years. Venezuela is predominately Roman Catholic, and their practice of religion is in their constitution.

    Cuba is the only Johnny-come-lately, where from 1959 through 1996 it classified itself as an atheist state. In 1996 they changed to a secular state. It’s population is predominately Catholic.

    What pisses me off about this film is that they’re doing it live action.

    What upsets ME the most is the fact that they are wasting their time doing it at all.

    Have they run out of story lines and plots? Why resurect a 1960s cartoon and make a full-featured movie out of it?

    I grit my teeth if I start hearing:

    When criminals in this world appear,
    And break the laws that they should fear,
    And frighten all who see or hear,
    The cry goes up both far and near for
    Underdog! Underdog! Underdog! Underdog!
    Speed of lightning! Roar of Thunder!
    Fighting all who rob and plunder!
    Underdog! Underdog! Underdog!

  31. jaybear Comment by jaybear

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    or some reason, quite a lot of people think that the Pledge of Allegiance was there, in its present form since the beginning of this country, and to “tamper” with it by challenging the words in it is akin to blasphemy. They really have no idea who wrote it, when they wrote it, and why they wrote it. They also don’t know that it has been changed several times before it got to where we are today.

    That’s because things like that aren’t taught in history classes anymore….hell, you won’t even find it in a civics class….hell, you won’t even FIND a civics class anymore.

    Actually, all three of those countries allow the practice of religion — especially China, where Buddhism and Taoism has been around for over 2000 years. Venezuela is predominately Roman Catholic, and their practice of religion is in their constitution.

    Cuba is the only Johnny-come-lately, where from 1959 through 1996 it classified itself as an atheist state. In 1996 they changed to a secular state. It’s population is predominately Catholic.

    I wasn’t alluding to their lack of religion, I was pointing to their lack of freedom of speech and protest.

    I grit my teeth if I start hearing:

    When criminals in this world appear,
    And break the laws that they should fear,
    And frighten all who see or hear,…..

    could be worse, you could start hearing:

    My Little Pony, My Little Pony
    What will today’s adventure be?
    My Little Pony, My Little Pony
    Will there be exciting sights to see?
    Where will you wander? Hither and yonder
    Letting your heart be your guide!
    My Little Pony, My Little Pony
    I’ll be there right by your side
    I’ll be there right by your side

  32. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Actually, all three of those countries allow the practice of religion — especially China, where Buddhism and Taoism has been around for over 2000 years.

    Tell that to the Falun Gong. They’re over in the People’s Revolutionary Medical Barracks, waiting for their organs to be removed.

    Venezuela is predominately Roman Catholic,

    And not even Adolf Hitler was crazy enough to crack down on the church, even though he had 12 years to do so, something that Hugo Slimeball can’t quite brag about yet. Your point?

  33. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    Misha, Dave, you’re both wrong on this score.

    First Dave

    Actually, all three of those countries allow the practice of religion — especially China, where Buddhism and Taoism has been around for over 2000 years.

    There are 5 legal religions here (Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Christianity and Islam), and to be considered a legal religion it must have a ‘people’s religious organization’- basically a division of the communist party that can be held accountable for the actions of the clergy (not the members, just to keep the clergy off politics)

    Then they have to swear to play nice with the government. Only these religions have freedom to practice- others, or unrepresented sects, do not (and the minorities have freedom too, but only in their home areas) This has caused problems with the local Jews- Shanghai for example has an impressive Jewish history, and some great synagogues, but they can’t legally open a synagogue without being an official religion…. foreigners are allowed to practice in private, so long as they don’t proselytize to the locals. Thus there are sizable populations of Jewish, Mormon and other unrecognized religions among the expats.

    So not entirely free.

    Now Misha:

    Tell that to the Falun Gong. They’re over in the People’s Revolutionary Medical Barracks, waiting for their organs to be removed.

    This has never been reliably authenticated, and the only people relating these stories have all been seeking political refugee status- not the most reliable testimonials.

    Yes, China shoots convicts on demand for organs, that’s pretty well documented. Yeha. If you lived here you’d understand, and want them to shoot more, and faster.

    I was anti-death penalty until I got here, but there are too many people to put up with criminals in society. Shoot them all, fast, little fuss or expense.

    The problem is the way the system works here would make the kind of centralized FG disposal point almost impossible to operate- the provinces are just not that integrated, and are almost always engaged in pety squabbles. Even the military districts are regionalized.

    If they could come close to that kind of centralization, they wouldn’t be shooting criminals on riverbanks around the country, they’d move them to the facility for processing and sale of their organs.

    There’s just a great deal about that story that is preposterous- it’s a Chinese equivalent of the FEMA/black helicopter/American concentration camp story…..

    And I am tapped into the undercurrents and lived in that region for two years- I’d have heard a rumble or two. Secrets may be secret, but an underground secret military hospital/prison in downtown Liaoning would have brought some gossip among the locals- that’s the Chinese national hobby, along with nosiness.

    And to give you an example of the sort of disaffected undercurrent gossiper I’m in touch with, I am close friends with several people who loathe the commies, because their fathers were shot in front of them in the purges of ‘76-79.

    Just a note from the inside.

  34. Unregistered Comment by Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant

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    What upsets ME the most is the fact that they are wasting their time doing it at all.

    I’m holding out for the remake of the Mighty Heroes myself. 

  35. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    That’s because things like that aren’t taught in history classes anymore….hell, you won’t even find it in a civics class….hell, you won’t even FIND a civics class anymore.

    You won’t find any argument from me there. I was talking to this 17-year-old girl that is staying here, and I am amazed at what very little she’s learned while in school.

    Science and history are barely being taught. Even the basics. She couldn’t tell me the diffence between the Civil War, the Revolutionary War or World War II.

    We are doomed to repeat a whole host of disasters because we will have no memory of our mistakes.

    could be worse, you could start hearing:

    Oh yeah? I’ll bet you didn’t grow up with a little sister who listened to Little Jimmy Osmond sing:

    I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
    And I´ll do anything you say
    I´ll be your clown or your puppet or your April Fool
    If you´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A

    I´ll be your leprechaun and sit upon an old toadstool
    I´ll serenade you till I´m old and gray
    I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
    You´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A

    (You´ll be my lovely daisy on the mountainside)
    (There are lots of other flowers, too)
    But all the other flowers hung their heads and cried
    Because the loveliest of all them was you

    (But you were evidently the exception to the rule)
    I picked you quickly then I ran away
    ´Cause I was your long haired lover from Liverpool
    You were my sunshine daisy from L.A

    I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
    And I´ll do anything you ask
    I´ll be your clown or your puppet or your April Fool
    Cut my hair, I´ll even wear a mask

    I´ll be your Valentine, and you´ll be mine, and things´ll be cool
    We´ll move along together every day
    I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
    You´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A
    You´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A

    I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
    And I´ll do anything you ask
    I´ll be your clown or your puppet or your April Fool
    Cut my hair I´ll even wear a mask

    I´ll be your Valentine, and you´ll be mine, and things´ll be cool
    We´ll move along together every day
    I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
    You´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A

    It was brutal.

    Tell that to the Falun Gong. They’re over in the People’s Revolutionary Medical Barracks, waiting for their organs to be removed.

    Not one of the “approved” religions. I never said that they had total freedom of deciding WHAT religion to believe in, just that they allowed certain ones.

    Your point?

    The point that I thought Jay was saying that Michael Newdow would be happier in a country that didn’t have religion. I only pointed out that the three examples he gave DO allow religion to be practiced.

    There are 5 legal religions here (Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Christianity and Islam), and to be considered a legal religion it must have a ‘people’s religious organization’- basically a division of the communist party that can be held accountable for the actions of the clergy (not the members, just to keep the clergy off politics)

    Seagoon, I only mentioned the fact that China does allow some religion. I never said that China or the other two were as free to practice any religion (or not) as we are here in the US.

    Want to have some fun? Ask anyone here whether the US is a secular or Christian country.

    I was tasked to find out from several sites — Left and Right — last week, but I never got around to it. I suppose this is as good a time as any.

  36. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    Want to have some fun? Ask anyone here whether the US is a secular or Christian country.

    I’ll avoid that hornet’s nest, thankyouverymuch…

    Though I’ve always considered the line between secular and religious states to be the existence of an official state religion- and an official head to that religion.

    Of course, that’s just me….

  37. Deathknyte Comment by Deathknyte

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    What pisses me off about this film is that they’re doing it live action.

    Good Gawd Almighty™, if there was one flick that screamed for CGI for the main characters, it was this one. Why’d they have to plug in real live dogs for it? BASTARDS!!!!!

    I saw a commercial at work today for it. If the hot blonde woman is who I think she is, they are taking alot of liberties with it.

    I think the movie is going to suck. Like most disney movies nowadays.

  38. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    I’m with DK on that- Disney’s gone far down since the glory days.

    They used to make children’s movies that were minor masterpieces (or in the case of Fantasia, major masterpieces) of cinema, now, they make dreck that will strain the credulity of a 4 year-old.

    Old Walt must be spinning in his grave.

    (and now they won’t be showing smoking anymore, either..)

  39. Unregistered Comment by leoni2

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    Besides, the “nation” that is under this particular “dog” is a fictional one. As I recall the old cartoon series, the characters were all dogs or some kind of animals imitating humans in their behavior. Underdog was their protector, ergo, one ‘nation’, under dog.

    Buzz, wrong. Except for Underdog/Show Shine Boy, Sweet Polly Purebreed and Riff Raff, most of the characters in that animated show were humans.

    Hey, I did say I’d watched the series as a kid.

  40. cmblake6 Comment by cmblake6

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    As an eclectic, I see the truth in many, the untruths (or, not QUITE truths) in all, and the stone ass lies in some(ahem).

  41. Unregistered Comment by leoni2

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    Dave,

    I think you are confusing Underdog wih Mighty Mouse, a cartoon series that appear in the 1940s as shorts for the theatres which featured a superhero mouse on a world of funny animals. The shorts were being shown on television in the 1960s in a series on Saturday Morning TV for CBS and in syndication on UHF stations. As I’d said earlier, Underdog lived in a world of humans.

    Jaybear,

    My Little Pony, My Little Pony
    What will today’s adventure be?
    My Little Pony, My Little Pony
    Will there be exciting sights to see?
    Where will you wander? Hither and yonder
    Letting your heart be your guide!
    My Little Pony, My Little Pony
    I’ll be there right by your side
    I’ll be there right by your side

    AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    Don’t even do that, not even in jest… Where’s my cross?????

  42. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Buzz, wrong. Except for Underdog/Show Shine Boy, Sweet Polly Purebreed and Riff Raff, most of the characters in that animated show were humans.

    Hey, I did say I’d watched the series as a kid.

    I can barely remember being a kid, let alone the plotlines and characters of the cartoons.

    Really, the only good cartoons were Bugs, and Popeye — before they were sanitized for violence. Egads, they were positively bloody. :em41:

  43. Unregistered Comment by leoni2

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    Dave,

    I can barely remember being a kid, let alone the plotlines and characters of the cartoons.

    Really, the only good cartoons were Bugs, and Popeye —before they were sanitized for violence. Egads, they were positively bloody. :em41:

    Not me, I have a very good memory of most of the cartoon series I’d watched, starting in the mid to late 1960s. In fact, at my livejournal a few months ago I’d uploaded what I’d remembered of series that were similiar to Underdog in tone (Anthropmorphic) from 1965 to 1975, including Bugs and his friends.

    Ah yes, Bugs and Popeye, before PCism really got their claws into those shorts. Jerks. :em96: I do not care if they weren’t PC, stop cutting out the good parts, you jerks. Snort.

  44. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    The golden age before cartoons were designed around toys…

    All gone. More marketers to shoot.

  45. Unregistered Comment by Nah

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    In response to jaybear:

    if you don’t want to say “under God”, then don’t say it ferchrissakes….why does everything have to be a Federal issue with you guys, something “offends” the sensitivities of the lefties and it has to be banned instead of the leftists just choosing to not participate…..

    The pledge is meant to unite the American people. Including any reference to religion is exclusionary. Including a reference specifically to God-with-a-capital-G excludes agnostics, atheists, polytheists, and Buddhists. Since the absence of any religious references does not exclude any groups, obviously any statement meant to unify Americans should not include religious references.

    Just for clarity’s sake, when I say “religious references” I am including statements that refer to the religious beliefs of atheists such as myself. If the pledge included statements that claimed deities or divinities did not exist, these would be equally objectionable. The mere absence of “under God” from the pledge does not, however, indicate that God is absent from the rest of the world as well. Obivously, it is entirely possible to make statements about the world without making a religious statement as well. That’s why the pledge makes more sense without “under God.”

    Besides, why can’t religious folk just choose to put it back in?

    Oh bullsheets, if you adhere to that level of Godophobia, then you might as well call our paper currency a prayer book, after all…it has In God We Trust written on it.

    Since you’re the first person to bring up “In God We Trust” here, there’s a perfectly good reason why nobody before you has taken issue with it. Please encounter some people who get all iffy over the pledge and not the coinage before you start constructing strawmen.

    (On a side note- they can change the back of the nickel, but they can’t take “In God We Trust” off? Yeah, right!)

    Oh double bullsheets, it’s neither slavish nor inappropriate for a free people. If we, as a free people, are forced to accept court ordered deviations from what was once the holy state of marriage…if we are forced, by threat of punishment under bogus hate crime laws, to stifle our distaste at amoral sexual lifestyles…if our children can be forced to sit through al gore’s crockumentary on global warming, and force fed how it is the God’s truth, without a dissenting view being presented….then what’s the problem with pledging allegiance to the nation that is free enough to allow all of that utopian shit to happen??

    The problem is that you have no choice in reciting the pledge. Or more specifically, the choice is not presented as a choice. In my high school, for example, we were not required to stand or recite the pledge. However, this policy was mysteriously inconsistant; the choir and gym teachers would, for example, tell students they had to stand for the pledge, whereas other teachers just asked if the student would stand because it would make them more comfortable. Furthermore, in elementary school, no teacher ever presents the pledge as optional. Period. Similarily, no teacher ever explains to the class that the words “under God” are optional. Ever. In any grade, or at any time. Is this the action of a free nation? Getting kids to recite words before they are old enough to understand them is pretty bad as well, but when it’s presented as not-optional, and children are being fed religious messages in addition to patriotic ones, the problem compounds.
    But to the point- Free nations don’t force people to be patriots. If they did, they would not be free nations. The freedom to not pledge is what makes the pledge significant.

    To conclude, I wholeheartedly agree that it really is unfortunate that this is even an issue. It seems to me that this controversy could easily be avoided if people paid attention to the feelings non-believers are expressing here. I am an atheist, and it is incredibly alienating to be the only person not speaking “under God” during the pledge. I hate being led in a pledge that leaves me out. I cringe at a government that seems to think it can decide deeply personal spiritual matters for me. And it scares me that, due to the repetative nature of the pledge, I sometimes found myself speaking words that I did not believe in. Those words have cheapened the overall meaning of the pledge for me. I can’t stand for something like that.

  46. Xystus Comment by Xystus

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    At least we can agree the Pledge offers material for satire. Here’s my Klintoon-era version (again):

    I pledge allegiance to the polls of the “liberal” (left-wing) media, and to the President whom they adore, one slippery politician, incorrigible, with libertine injustice for all.

    My original line was “with liberty for Bill Clinton’s wiener,” but that didn’t quite fit. :em93:

  47. Unregistered Comment by Uchuck the Tuchuck

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    I kind of breezed through the comments without reading all closely, so someone else may have already pointed tis out: From the trailers, it really looks like this movie is going to suck.

  48. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    But to the point- Free nations don’t force people to be patriots. If they did, they would not be free nations. The freedom to not pledge is what makes the pledge significant.

    Wrong. I’m with you on the “under G-d” thing, I don’t think anybody should be forced to say that if they feel uncomfortable about it and/or don’t believe. As to being “alienated” by being the only kid not saying it, taking the words out won’t change that, because I’m willing to bet you a fairly respectable amount of money that all of us who do believe will put it right back in. And hey, we’re free to do so, right?

    But as to the “freedom to pledge allegiance at all”, you’re way off. Not that you don’t have that freedom, but it’s inextricably connected to your freedom to renounce your citizenship. Period. Allegiance is, sensibly enough, required of naturalized citizens, so give me one good reason why it shouldn’t be required of those who are natural born? Are you telling me that you can enjoy the privileges, freedoms, benefits, protections and obligations of a nation and still retain the “right” to stab it in the back at any point in the future when you might want to?

    It’s like joining a club and refusing to sign the membership contract, insisting that it’s a “free country” and that, whereas I most certainly want to be a member, I refuse to contractually obligate myself to pay my membership dues or follow the rules unless I want to.

    Again: As far as “under G-d” goes, I agree with you. Nobody should be forced, ever, to pledge allegiance to a religious concept in either a direct or implied fashion. As far as pledging allegiance to the nation of which you wish to be a citizen, with all the benefits, protections and duties that it entails, you have the right to no longer be a citizen and that’s it. Keep in mind: You’re not pledging allegiance to a party, ideology or person, if that were the case then I’d be right there with you, you’re pledging allegiance to the nation that you want, presumably, to be a part of. And if you don’t, then you’re certainly free to renounce that membership at any time.

    But you don’t get to eat your cake and have it.

  49. Alan K. Henderson Comment by Alan K. Henderson

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    The real heresy is casting a live-action beagle as Underdog. :em38:

  50. MasterGuns, Imperial Marine Comment by MasterGuns, Imperial Marine

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    DJ said:

    “I thought it was a damn clever play on words.”
    —————————————-
    I actually agree with DJ for a change. I must be ill……wait a minute….what’s that flying past…..could it…..could it be??

    It is!!! George Noory riding by on a pink unicorn escorted by “grays” on flying pigback!
    —————————————–
    DJ is right on this. It IS a clever play on words.

    The movie will no doubt suck and yes, I wish the old cartoons uncensored were still around.

    Semper Fi

  51. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

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    Won’t see it.

    From what I’ve seen and the reviews I’ve read, this has nothing to do with the cartoon I grew up with.

    I’ve gotten sucked in to many times about ,maybe, seeing a new adaptation of something I loved in my childhood, only to find out that outside of the name, they just decided to write a whole new plot line, to make it relevant. :em98:

  52. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    i bought 300 and watched it for the first time last night with the daughter, who saw it twice on the plane back from Milan a week ago.

  53. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    love hearing about libtards getting their panties in a bunch over 300

  54. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    Imams Removed From US Airways Flight Drop Passengers From Lawsuit

  55. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    I just thought 300 sucked- too much the history buff, too little impressed by the CG I guess…

  56. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Christopher
    We wanted to see it! (middle-aged liberals)

  57. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

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    See it, screw history and nit-picky facts.. It’s just like Braveheart..the message is there…It’s about someone fighting for freedom above all else.

    As far as films, they’ll never get it exactly right. Do you think I thought “Sands of Iwo Jima” or “Flying Tigers” were accurate portrayal’s Of WWII and what our father’s really went through….no! But they gave me a glimpse into the mind of what we were dealing with at the time,, and I haven’t let that vision slip out of my mind, cause I know it will happenh again.

  58. Unregistered Comment by Nah

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    Ugh, WordPress ate my first response. Well, here’s an abbreviated version.

    As to being “alienated” by being the only kid not saying it, taking the words out won’t change that, because I’m willing to bet you a fairly respectable amount of money that all of us who do believe will put it right back in. And hey, we’re free to do so, right?

    Of course. The only person who I do not believe is allowed to alter the pledge is the person who leads the rest of the people in the pledge. That person is acting in an official capacity and should not deviate from the official version. The speaker might pause out of courtesy to those wishing to add “under God” in, but regardless of the speaker’s personal beliefs, they should refrain from speaking “under God.” Thus the official message does not alienate anyone, even if the majority of people choose to add “under God” in.

    It’s like joining a club and refusing to sign the membership contract, insisting that it’s a “free country” and that, whereas I most certainly want to be a member, I refuse to contractually obligate myself to pay my membership dues or follow the rules unless I want to.

    But, see, my membership contract was signed when I was born. Those who are Americans by virtue of blood or place of birth are automatically granted the rights and benefits of citizenship.

    Allegiance is, sensibly enough, required of naturalized citizens, so give me one good reason why it shouldn’t be required of those who are natural born?

    This is a very good question, and one I think ought to be asked a little bit more. I suppose my answer to it would be to point out that the pledge as it functions in the naturalization process is meant to indicate a transfer of loyalty. Since natural-born citizens are assumed to lack any previous loyalties to other nations, there is no reason to require pledges of them.

    …you’re pledging allegiance to the nation that you want, presumably, to be a part of. And if you don’t, then you’re certainly free to renounce that membership at any time.

    Exactly. And while natural-born citizens aren’t required to pledge allegiance because they don’t have prior loyalties to renounce, they certainly don’t get to renounce their citizenship without consequences. But refusing to pledge allegiance isn’t the same thing as explicitly renouncing allegiance.

    But as to the “freedom to pledge allegiance at all”, you’re way off. Not that you don’t have that freedom, but it’s inextricably connected to your freedom to renounce your citizenship. Period.

    See, pledging is not inextricably linked to your freedom to renounce your citizenship. There are no laws forcing you to pledge. Not pledging it not the same as renounce allegiance, because not pledging simply maintains status quo. If I have already pledged allegiance, pledging again doesn’t change anything. Nor does not pledging. The only thing that does change my allegiance is if I specifically renounce it, either by denying it specifically or by pledging allegiance to some other nation.

    The point I make is simply that, although there are no laws forcing one to pledge, culturally speaking it is unfashionable to not pledge. And that’s goofy, because there is really no need for people who are already citizens to pledge allegiance. It’s not as if we’re stocking up on allegiance tokens and the guy with the most at the end gets to be President!

  59. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Nah
    Thanks. That was greatly superior to what I would have written. I will say that it’s my actions as a citizen that should matter, not whether or not I recite one sentence.

    I would be very happy to take an oath to uphold the Constitution.

    By the way, this seems like a reasonable place to mention it. I saw a video of a US flag burning in the strangest place. It was a gathering of some fringe Christian group that seemed like they were forming a political party. I’ll try to see if I can find it again.

  60. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    SoCal, I know what you’re saying, and I feel similarly about many films, but giant monsters in 300? I can forgive the ’spartans fighting for democracy and freedom’ goor (sparta was hardly democratic, what with helots and all…)

    But the monsters? The giant freakish Xerxes? Pushed my willing suspension of disbelief too far.

  61. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    I was going to post the link to the video of the fringe Christian flag burning, but does anyone want to see it? I don’t want to present anything offensive unless there is interest.

  62. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    It’s probably Phucker Phred Phelps and his Phreakish Phucking Phamily.

  63. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Seagoon
    I think it’s worse than that. If I remember correctly–it’s the Creators Rights Party. They are with the Army of God terrorist group. They must have been effectively infiltrated–they haven’t shot anybody lately.

    You would appreciate this. Some kid at Dartmouth wanted Mao’s little red book for class. He wanted the Chinese version, so he did an interlibrary loan to China. He had spent some time out of the US, so he got red-flagged and got a visit from 2 Homeland Security agents.

  64. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    PC. that’s funny, especially since mao’s little red book is now only printed and sold to tourists… as with most Maomorabilia.

    Creepy that he got a visit tho.

  65. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    Never saw the appeal in maomorabilia- though my cat is named Mao tse Cat.

    (Mao also means cat in Mandarin- it’s extra disrespectful!)

  66. Alan K. Henderson Comment by Alan K. Henderson

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    I saw “300″ recently. Set in that alternate universe where Sparta and Persia are ruled by the Chippendale’s Dancers and a methamphetamine-drenched rave party, respectively. Spartans prove that men with spears can stand against archers, horsemen, and even the mighty hordes of Siegfried and Roy. Leonidas lectures Ephialtes on how maintaining a solid shield wall with no gaps is critical to the success of the phalanx - and in battle the Spartans constantly break formation to fight in convoluted acrobatics that would give Mikhail Baryshnikov whiplash.

    I’d like to see a Frank Miller rendition of the Siege of Vienna.

  67. Alan K. Henderson Comment by Alan K. Henderson

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    :em93:

  68. WayneB Comment by WayneB

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    and in battle the Spartans constantly break formation to fight in convoluted acrobatics that would give Mikhail Baryshnikov whiplash.

    Hey, where was the spew alert for that one?

  69. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

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    Quite right Alan!

    Spartan Phalanx, not some Lloyd Webber dance routine.

    (one two Kick whirl…. poke with your spears ladies! harder! step duck flex! let’s see those hairless abs!)

    gah.

  70. Alan K. Henderson Comment by Alan K. Henderson

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    Hey, how about some alternate Thermopyllae?

    - Persians vs. American phalanx

    - Persians vs. Marvel’s Phalanx

    - Persians vs. Phalanx, the 13th Colossus

    - Spartans vs. the Prince of Persia

    - Spartans and Persians vs. Trojans

    - Spartans and Persians vs. trojans