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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » My Poll
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It’s an honest poll, I am interested in the outcome for a project I am working on.

{democracy:6}

(Careful, it is kind of a trick question. I would suggest you look up the definitions first before you cast your vote.)

103 Responses to “My Poll”
  1. LC Scott Comment by LC Scott

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    Poll?

  2. LC Scott Comment by LC Scott

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    Never mind its there now.

  3. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Never mind its there now.

    I had a small issue with the display. It is fixed now.

  4. Deathknyte Comment by Deathknyte

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    What is the poll for?

  5. chuck Comment by chuck

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    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    John Adams

  6. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    John Adams

    Wasn’t he the president during the Treaty of Tripoli?

    What is the poll for?

    Show development. I was tasked to find out from people on the Left and Right what they thought this country was.

    I deliberately kept the answers down to two — no addins — because I need the data just that way.

    We have a couple of interesting guests scheduled in mid-August, and that is what this data is for.

  7. Unregistered Comment by Smitty

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    Neither, we are a Socialist country and Socialism is a relion unto itself.

    From the American Heritage Dictionary:

    re·li·gion (r-ljn) KEY

    NOUN:

    1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
    The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
    3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
    4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

    Amerika would be #4
    The “cause” would be “diversity” or “liberalism” (in the twisted fascist definition of the term “liberal” ie “Mao was a liberal” , not the classical definition of the term liberal ie “the founding fathers were liberals” )

  8. Unregistered Comment by leoni2

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    Dave,

    Wasn’t he the president during the Treaty of Tripoli?

    Yes, yes he was. In fact, it says so in the link on the Treaty.

  9. Unregistered Comment by DukeFenton

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    I’d say it’s a secular *nation* with a Christian (specifically western European Christian) *culture*.

    How’s that sound? :em95:

  10. Xystus Comment by Xystus

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    Wasn’t he the president during the Treaty of Tripoli?

    Which doesn’t refute the truth of his above remark. The (hypothetical) opposite, a nation of immoral people, each recognizing no good greater than that of their own little persons, will need a more oppressive government than our Constitution provides to keep them in order.

  11. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Xystus
    “their own little persons”

    Are you the morality police? Morality has nothing to do with belief in a God. There are wonderful and horrible Christians, and the same for atheists/agnostics. The sweetest people I know are divided among Christians, Jews, and atheists. If you want major argument on it, I could link you to the Alan/Fanusi thread, which was fascinating.

    DukeFenton
    I would say you got it perfectly.

    Smitty
    Gag. Funny how it’s a Republican administration that contracts out a lot of government businesss to private companies, funds many of the social services as faith-based, and spends half a billion dollars a year on fundamentalist based marriage counseling. If you were feeling loopy, you could characterize them as non-socialist Christians.

    If you think Mao was a liberal, you might want to do a little reading. Does the word Communist ring a bell? Liberals don’t want to take over the means of production and nationalize everything, which is the traditional Socialist agenda. Every liberal I’ve ever met was into capitalism. I vote for a president, not a dictator to worship. And if there was someone like Mao ruling the US, I would be out there with the rest of the resistance. ((with my metal weapons–maybe a combo of knives, that machete, and a battle axe–the darkside beckons!)

  12. Andrew Ian Dodge Comment by Andrew Ian Dodge

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    Actually the US is a deistic country, as were its founders. It is a secular government founded on the ideals of the Enlightenment and Renaissance. It is difficult to make a case that the Founding Fathers were either athiests or all signed up members of an organised Christian Church.

    It was highly influenced by Judeo-Christian/Western European as sifted through Anglo-Saxon culture.

  13. Unregistered Comment by Patrick

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    Well, “Nature’s God” and “their Creator” don’t sound like secular references to me. While the individuals may have been atheists, I find the founding documents replete with references acknowledging that the majority of the inhabitants of the new colonies were religious.

    I know that’s not specifically what the poll is asking, but that’s my position and I’m sticking to it.

    LC Patrick, Royal Medic

  14. Hermes Bound Comment by Hermes Bound

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    Both are true.

    America is ’secular’ in the sense that its Constitution prohibits the government from officially sanctioning and enforcing a particular religion (say, oh, Christianity).

    America is ‘Christian’ in that the vast majority of its population - past and present - are (were) self-identifying Christians. Also, it has inherited the cultural Christianity of its Western European heritage.

  15. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

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    Liberals don’t want to take over the means of production and nationalize everything, which is the traditional Socialist agenda. Every liberal I’ve ever met was into capitalism.

    And every liberal I’ve ever met wants nationalzed health care. It’s the liberals now who are calling for government control of the radio airwaves; we already have compulsary government education for our children (a socialist dream); the Hildabeast (liberal socialist) is calling for the nationalization of our oil companies; it’s the liberals (socialists) who are calling on the government to take money from the rich and give to the poor.

    Maybe not every liberal is a socialist, but every socialist I’ve had the misfortunate to meet is liberal AND democrat.

  16. Alan K. Henderson Comment by Alan K. Henderson

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    Actually deists represented a minority of the Founders. And an even smaller minority of the electorate.

    The Founders inherited a British culture that since the Magna Carta had been evolving toward representative-republican principles. The colonists speeded up the process by putting an ocean between themselves and the Crown; out of both necessity and a culture of increasing democratization, self-government had already established itself for a few generations by the time the Continental Congresses were gathering.

    They shure as Hades didn’t get very many good ideas from the French part of the Enlightenment.

  17. Alan K. Henderson Comment by Alan K. Henderson

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    I’d say it’s a secular *nation* with a Christian (specifically western European Christian) *culture*.

    That wording isn’t entirely accurate. The US of A was founded as a non-theocratic government, but not a purely secular one - for this one reason: American government is not neutral toward God.

    Our founding legal document points this out. First, it claims that God is an authority who outranks all human government:

    When…it becomes necessary for one people…to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them….

    [A]ll men are created equal…they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Second, its makes specific claims about divine will concerning the law. First and foremost is the claim that all humans are equally important to God - “all men are created equal.” Since it states that rights come from God, its list of grievances against George III is a list of direct claims about the will of God.

    What, no flag smiley? I’ll just steal an icon from my own site:

    Oops, wrong one:

  18. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    Don’t tell me you’re trotting out the tired old “Treaty of Tripoli” crap, DJ. I can think of weaker implecations you could make, but not many.
    :em58:

  19. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    And every liberal I’ve ever met wants nationalzed health care.

    And more than a few Republicans as well, along with most employers who currently have to foot the bill for health insurance costs.

    Most of us want a single payer system

    It’s the liberals now who are calling for government control of the radio airwaves;

    Believe it or not, the government owns the airwaves, which means, We The People own them. NOT FOX Noise, NOT Clear Channel, NOT Infinity, CBS, GE, or any other broadcaster.

    we already have compulsary government education for our children (a socialist dream);

    Darn that Thomas Jefferson for even suggesting it. But hey, public education goes back a ways.

    Granted, public education sucks right now — mainly because it focuses on test results and not on actual learning the things that matter.

    the Hildabeast (liberal socialist) is calling for the nationalization of our oil companies;

    Not the oil companies, the oil itself. There is a difference.

    it’s the liberals (socialists) who are calling on the government to take money from the rich and give to the poor.

    I would just settle for them paying the same percentage of their income that the rest of us do. If you make more, then you pay more - percentagewise.

    Second, its makes specific claims about divine will concerning the law. First and foremost is the claim that all humans are equally important to God - “all men are created equal.” Since it states that rights come from God, its list of grievances against George III is a list of direct claims about the will of God.

    Which “God” were they speaking of?

    Notice that they were being generic in their reference? They talked about a God of Nature, — a creator. In other words, a power greater than man, yet not a specific one.

    Notice that I was very specific in my poll question. I could have asked whether this country was:

    a) Religious
    b) Secular
    c) both.

    We all know the answer there (at least I should hope so)

    But that wasn’t the question.

    The majority of people in this country are to some degree or another, a flavor of Christian. But does this make the United States a Christian nation? Or do we operate as a secular nation that has a large portion of its population believing in the Christian faith?

    Right now the poll shows a statistical tie — which is something I was told to expect.

  20. Kristopher, LC Comment by Kristopher, LC

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    Disagree, Alan.

    There were only a few outright Christians involved in the Declaration of Independence signing, and the Federalist cabal that made the Constitution.

    And about as many outright atheists … Franklin was a member of the Hellfire Club … heh.

    Most of the folks were either freemasons or sunday christians, with a sprinkling of Deists.

    We got a Secular country because the majority realized that, even if Christianity was made an official Religion, some other sect would be left out in the cold, or even persecuted, Christian or not.

    I do have one question for all those who want “Christianity” made into a national religion:

    Which sect? Mormonism? Baptist Snake handling? Catholicism? If not, then why not?

  21. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    Which sect? Mormonism? Baptist Snake handling? Catholicism? If not, then why not?

    It would be a lot like what we are seeing in Iraq right now. Shia and Sunni are Muslims, but not the same brand.

    Their main difference? Mostly, it is political, that has taken on a spiritual significance.

    It dates back to the death of the Prophet Muhammad, and who would take his place. Sunni Muslims believed that the new leader should be elected from among those capable of the job — the followers of Muhammed. So they picked Muhammed’s close friend and advisor, Abu Bakr, who became the first Caliph of the Islamic nation.

    Shia Muslims felt that the leadership should have stayed in Muhammed’s family or among those specifically appointed by him, or among Imams appointed by God Himself.

    Over the centuries, it has become a case of which is the ‘true’ Muslim, and which isn’t. Basically, it has been a blood feud between the two main sects ever since Muhammed floated off this mortal coil.

    When you want to talk about success in Iraq or for the greater Middle East, THIS is the main obstacle. It is a political one, not a military one. We can insert ourselves in between them, but all that does is make ourselves targets as well. If we ever want a successful conclusion in Iraq, it has to be a political solution.

    I see that the major political bloc of Sunnis pulled out of the Iraq government this morning. It is the Saudi Sunnis that have been causing the most violence in the area, while the Bush administration wants to point at the Iranian Shia as a distraction.

    But Christians are not above killing each other over who is the “better Christian”. Look at Ireland, for recent history. How much bloodshed went on between the Protestants and Catholics? How much dislike/distrust is there still? For most of us, we wonder what all the fuss is about. For them, they are willing to kill over it.

  22. Kristopher, LC Comment by Kristopher, LC

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    I vote for Snake-Handling.

    Thos sprogs should be handling Rattlers in class, and rolling on the floor, speaking in tongues.

    If you are going to have state sponsered prayer in the schools, you shouldn’t do it half-way.

  23. Vergeltung Comment by Vergeltung

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    It was in the beginning, and still is a Christian nation; but alas with each passing year it slips into becoming more of a value-less, nihilistic, materialistic, secularly humanistic, and morally reletavistic one (did I fit enough words in there? ;) ).

    As many a learned man before me has said and known, democracy works best in a nation of moral and religious people. our country has been on the downward slide since the mid-1960s, when the three-headed dragon of Liberalism, Feminism & the “sexual revolution” began to burn and sourge the landscape (those three plagues work off/with/within each other, almost in an amplified way, like an exponential effect, consuming and destroying at an even faster rate).

    stir in the modern man’s tendencies to be vain, selfish, and materially-hedonistic, and you have quite a cocktail of self-destruction there.

    we are wide open to cultural invasion, be it the slow bleed into the southern border, or the slow, day-by-day creep of islamic intolerances into our society (see, e.g., Britain). Europe is even in worse shape, with their anemic birth rates (yes, I read alot of Mark Steyn’s stuff :) ).

    Islamists are not aborting or contracepting themselves into demographic oblivion. they do not have the self-doubt or the self-hate that liberalism has infected the West with. they do not second guess their cause, and they are believers. the stage is set for them to run the table.

    Ironically, the enemy within is joining forces with the enemy outside. what strange bedfellows they make indeed.

    God help us all.

  24. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Most of us want a single payer system

    From your link:

    The term socialized medicine is often used to conjure images of government bureaucratic interference in medical care. That does not describe what happens in countries with national health insurance.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    That is, without a doubt, the worst, bald-faced, blatant load of lying bullshit I’ve read since I threw out my copy of Das Kapital.

    Sorry, my friend, but that is about as far from the truth as you can possibly get, and I know what I’m talking about, having worked for a decade for a “national health insurance” system.

    What? You expect government to just hand over funds and otherwise mind their own fucking business? You can’t fucking fart without government interference and control in such a system, and if there’s something that the employees (from janitors to surgeons) don’t have, then it’s any sort of influence on their pay.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    People who have no earthly fucking clue what they’re talking about (such as 99.9% of people in this country) might buy that bill of goods, but those of us who do, won’t.

    And now I need to wipe coffee off my monitor. Again.

    Thanks a LOT.

    :lol:

  25. Deathknyte Comment by Deathknyte

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    But Christians are not above killing each other over who is the “better Christian”. Look at Ireland, for recent history.

    I would say that the IRA was more interested in bringing the northern counties back into Ireland than in proving who is a better Christian.

    Not very Christian to blow up random people.

  26. Haverwilde Comment by Haverwilde

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    DJ

    Granted, public education sucks right now — mainly because it focuses on test results and not on actual learning the things that matter.

    I wish test results were the cause. The NEA is solidly against testing. ‘It is much better to rely on a teacher’s assessment.’ If I could change one thing in the ‘No child left behind’ legislation it would require pre- and post-testing of every child every year and publish each classrooms results.

  27. Zucca Fett Comment by Zucca Fett

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    It would be, Fenton, or rather, it us for now, but I live in California, and according to the writing on the wall, by 2010, any semblance of American culture will be outweighed by an overwhelmingly dense latino population >_>

  28. Vergeltung Comment by Vergeltung

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    Deathknyte

    Not very Christian to blow up random people.

    Yep. Which below is not like the others?;

    1. Catholic suicide bomber

    2. Chrisitan suicide bomber

    3. Jewish suicide bomber

    4. Islamic suicide bomber.

    Boy, that IS a tough one isn’t it? :em93:

  29. Redneck Comment by Redneck

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    Which below is not like the others?;

    I’d say 4.

    Because the three don’t exist.

  30. ScottG Comment by ScottG

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    It’s an honest poll

    To be a completely honest poll, you must include the choice of Ron Paul….

  31. Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur Comment by Blackiswhite, Imperial Agent Provocateur

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    DJ
    Public education sucks for several reasons,not the least of which is the state-sponsored abdication of parenting by parents, which has lead to schools filling the void and teaching things that should be taught at home, including “morals” and “ethics”, which are formed mostly by consensus among people who possess neither. These expectations are added to the teacher’s plate, in addition to the expection that they actually teach, which is a recipe for failure.

  32. Unregistered Comment by Doug

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    Liberals don’t want to take over the means of production and nationalize everything, which is the traditional Socialist agenda.

    Liberals have only modified it slightly. They don’t want the means of production — which is a lot of hassle to run and not really what communists want in the first place — they want the fruit of production, the wealth created by it. You can go ahead and keep the means of production, as long as they get to dispose of any money you manage to make however they see fit.

    along with most employers who currently have to foot the bill for health insurance costs.

    And who exactly do you think foots the bill in a socialized scheme?

    Granted, public education sucks right now — mainly because it focuses on test results and not on actual learning the things that matter.

    Mainly because it focuses on expanding educational unions by providing protected sinecures.

    I would just settle for them paying the same percentage of their income that the rest of us do.

    You want to reduce taxes on the rich?

    You expect government to just hand over funds and otherwise mind their own fucking business? You can’t fucking fart without government interference and control in such a system, and if there’s something that the employees (from janitors to surgeons) don’t have, then it’s any sort of influence on their pay.

    To expand on this, what happens without checks and limits on consumption of health care is that usage would increase a minimum of 300%-400%. Health care is already said to consume 10% of GDP - an expense government could handle if it jammed its hands into the pockets that are paying this currently. It just isn’t possible for government to handle an expense of 30%-40% of GDP without utterly destroying the economy, so you have to squeeze your expenses (the skilled and highly educated people who provide care, and their facilities) and dole out care in a rationed fashion.

  33. sixfootbrit Comment by sixfootbrit

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    I’d say 4.

    Because the three don’t exist.

    Here,here. No “suicide” bombers of Christian or Jewish origin, the “Catholics” in the IRA liked to blow up RUC and British soldiers, not themselves. If they did that then they wouldn’t be able to enjoy the spoils from their lucrative drug trade. The “troubles” were more about William of Orange and other abuses originally (see Black and Tans). Do Irish folk see themselves as Protestant and Catholic, yes. Did the IRA fight for Catholics, no. They were (and still are) bloody marxists!

  34. sixfootbrit Comment by sixfootbrit

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Doh….that should be “Hear, hear”, what kind of an ex-pat am I??!!

  35. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    To expand on this, what happens without checks and limits on consumption of health care is that usage would increase a minimum of 300%-400%. Health care is already said to consume 10% of GDP - an expense government could handle if it jammed its hands into the pockets that are paying this currently. It just isn’t possible for government to handle an expense of 30%-40% of GDP without utterly destroying the economy, so you have to squeeze your expenses (the skilled and highly educated people who provide care, and their facilities) and dole out care in a rationed fashion.

    You’re right, Doug, but it’s pointless to try to explain it to a homegrown socialist.

    After all, this time it won’t be the same. This time it will work completely differently from the other 9,643 times it has been tried in various and sundry other countries using as many different models. It’s just that they didn’t know how to do it right, don’t you know?

    The ignorant clownshoes in this country who have absolutely zero experience with socialized “one payer systems” will, magically, have the perfect solution.

    Just like the way the DMV, USPS, Public Skools and BATFE work without a hitch. I can’t wait for the same useless pricks running those agencies to get the final say in my healthcare. As a matter of fact, I think I’ll just save them the trouble and shoot myself. At least my death will be instant and relatively painless that way.

  36. LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech Comment by LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Some fine folks we know spent 17 maddening years fullfilling insane, expensive, arbitrary rules and requirements to migrate here from England.
    The right way.
    The punishment?
    After three months’ the wife is diagnosed with cancer.
    The paltry insurance won’t cover but a pittance, and the deductibles are big enough to put down on a Biscayne Bay condo..AND,, now, there’s no chance of going back to jolly ol’ for Gov’t sponsored treatment.
    They came to live out their final years free of the crushing English taxes, and slammed right into our crushing medical system..

    Life is such a wicked freakin’ trade-off.

  37. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Okay, I realize that Libruls are used to being completely contradictory in all of their worldviews, but this horse shit is just ridiculous.

    I would just settle for them paying the same percentage of their income that the rest of us do.

    Then, in the very next fucking sentence, he types:

    If you make more, then you pay more - percentagewise.

    :em72:
    How the fuck do you even get up in the morning and not put your shoes on your hands and your underwear on your head, with that kind of incredibly fucked up dichotomous synaptic dysfunction?

    :em98:

  38. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    This is a test

  39. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    BC
    I think the logic is there–it just came out funny. If everybody paid the same percentage of their income as taxes, the people that had higher incomes would be paying more money towards taxes. The reason for that is the percentage issue–I think that’s what the second sentence is trying to say. (However, mind reading is not one of my skills)

  40. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Testeroo

  41. LC MoMinuteMan Comment by LC MoMinuteMan

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    DJ sez:

    I would just settle for them paying the same percentage of their income that the rest of us do. If you make more, then you pay more - percentagewise.

    Actually, the Tax Code sez, “…the more you make, the more you are supposed to pay.” The problem is that it also sez, “…the more you make, the better able you are to afford some shark in a suit to find the loopholes in the tax code that allow you keep more of your money…”

    And in reality, the highest earners pay the lion’s share in taxes, while the lowest earners get money “back” that they didn’t earn in the first place…

    But…

    Something like the Fair Tax would make taxes equal across the board. You are not taxed on what you make, you are taxed on what you spend. The more you spend, the more you pay in tax.

    The poorest folks are allowed a rebate on the basic needs of life, while the mo’ better off won’t be able to write off that big ass boat or limo or jet fuel or, like The Goreacle, their 200% higher than the average Joe Sixpack utility bill, as business expenses, but instead, will pay the same rate of sales tax on their purchases as the po’ and down trodden.

    I agree with you that everybody should pay their fair share, but there should be a better way of determining what that share is.

    I must be drinking too much, I find myself agreeing with a lot of the shit DJ has said lately… :em94:

    Somebody smack me… :em41:

  42. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    PC, no, the logic is NOT there.

    As it already stands today, those who make more money ALREADY pay a higher percentage of their income than those who make less. Don’t even TRY to get in the argument about taxes to try and save DJ’s ass, hon. It wouldn’t be very pretty. Remember, us Eeeevil NeoKKKons™ keep up with our knowledge about taxes.

    And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. :em93:

  43. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    DJ
    What did you do to me”? I got this message that I had cookies I hadn’t used and a link to clean them up. I did it and refreshed several times and had to quit and restart. I guess I don’t understand why it mattered.

    I’ve been horribly paraniod ever since I downloaded that Klan application. (My curiousity will be the death of me at some point) I’ve been hesitant to wipe all the cookies, because I didn’t know if it would screw me somehow.

    I hope people can only vote once.

  44. B.C., Imperial Torturer™ Comment by B.C., Imperial Torturer™

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Yo, Mo, I’m all up for the Fair Tax, my man. Abolish the tax code and turn the IRS building into a brothel for the downtrodden masses. After all, the Capitol Building is already a whorehouse, but it’s too expensive for the regular people.

  45. Unregistered Comment by seagoon

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Ah, BC- the Caligula solution to national finance….

    Nice.

  46. LC MoMinuteMan Comment by LC MoMinuteMan

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    B.C. sez:

    …turn the IRS building into a brothel for the downtrodden masses. After all, the Capitol Building is already a whorehouse, but it’s too expensive for the regular people.

    Fast forward 10 years…

    And now for travel news, we go to our on the spot reporter, Richard Head in D.C. … Dick…

    Thank you Mary Palmer, I’m Dick Head and I’m in Washington, D.C., reporting on a massive influx of tourism here in the nation’s capitol since the Infernal Revenue Service Building was retasked as a Den Of Iniquity since the implementation of the Fair Tax…

    And I’d like to take this opportunity to tender my resignation at KUNT-TV, because I have accepted a better job offer as the the piano player here at the Incredibly Relaxing Sex Bar and Grill…

  47. Lady Heather Comment by Lady Heather

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    Mo–

    :em99:

  48. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Just curious, DJ, but what percentage of taxes do you pay? And what do you feel is “fair” for rich people to pay? 30? 50? more? Would you have any problem writing out an 80,000 check to the IRS because you sold stock and made 200,000?

    The Fair Tax is the way to go.

  49. Lady Heather Comment by Lady Heather

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    I mean, I love your comment, Mo(MinuteMan)

    :em93:

  50. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Anyone know where to find that chart that lists the breakdown of who pays what in taxes? I can’t remember where it was.

  51. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    SkyeChild
    That does seem really excessive. I guess if it’s all options, there’s not much you can do to reduce your taxes. Actually, I’ve heard horror stories about taxes on options. But if it’s a portfolio, your broker should be able to sell stuff at a loss and reduce your tax burden. (And by the way, brokerage fees are deductible unless you are rolling over an IRA. H&R Block never bothered to mention that.)

    The people I begrudge are the billionaires who pay next to nothing because of arcane tax laws I don’t understand, and a fair tax would be ideal. (Yes, I know BC–your article says the rich are over-taxed. We might have different definitions of rich.)

    And I seriously begrudge Bush for slashing the number of auditors for the big estates, which is where most of the tax cheating takes place.

    And it really pisses me off that alimony is tax deductible and child support is not!

  52. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Who decides what “rich” is, PC? 100,000+? For those who make 20,000 or less, those making 80,000 are “rich.” To the kid making minimum wage, 20,000 would be “rich.”

    Ironic, isn’t it, that some of the richest people in Congress are Democrats?

  53. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    One more note about taxes, and then I’ll shut up:

    My in-laws were German immigrants. FIL worked in a factory; MIL was a housewife. They weren’t wealthy, by any means. My hubby (first-generation) worked since age 13. Every dime he made, he made by WORKING and investing. He invested wisely. As a result, we are very comfortable. To be fair, he got an inheritance when his dad died…a whopping 4,000.

    And it GALLS ME NO END, DJ, to have people like you come along and say that HE should be penalized for working hard his whole life, while those like my nephew, who blows money quicker than I can blink an eye, should be REWARDED for his irresponsibility.

    :em12:

  54. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    SkyeChild
    I don’t know–probably some committee. I’ve been told you need a mil to keep you through old age. I definitely would not consider $100,000+ rich. To me, that’s upper middle class. And yes, your perception of what income counts as rich would vary with your income. And if you tax people too much who are really wealthy, they will move away, and you would lose a lot of talent. I want Steve Jobs in Cupertino, even if he does get 260 million a year in stocks (options?). He is a DemiGod afterall. And the PC people probably want Bill Gates around.

    Let’s arbitrarily say $100 million in assets? But what do I know? I’m not deciding public policy. I was specifying billionaires, and there is a way to weasel on the taxes.

  55. Unregistered Comment by ballistic

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    DJ

    And it really pisses me off that alimony is tax deductible and child support is not!

    Fantastic! Of course, you do realize that the rich (Those who make over a mil a year) pay 90% of the total tax revenue taken in by the IRS? I’m with ya brother! That means that Cledus the slack-jawed gas station attendant will pay the same percentage of his income as taxes that Bill Gates will. Fair is fair!

    PC

    And it really pisses me off that alimony is tax deductible and child support is not!

    Well of course it does sweetheart! You’re a fucking woman, and why on earth wouldn’t it piss you off that a guy paying a woman for no other reason than she married into wealth gets a break? I mean, it’s not the woman’s fault that she didn’t bring anything to the table, and didn’t bother to educate or further her self, and it should be the man’s responsibility to support her worthless ass whether or not they’re married, right?

    Give me a fucking break, sweetheart.

  56. Unregistered Comment by ballistic

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    WTF, I could have sworn I quoted DJ’s post about the rich paying an equivalent percentage of income as taxes. Guess I have my head up my ass tonight, too.

    [Can’t help but agree there, chumpzilla.  -The Management™]

  57. psychochick Comment by psychochick

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    ballistic
    I think you might have misunderstood me. I’m not a big fan of alimony, unless there is a specific reason: the wife who worked to put her husband through med school and then got axed.

    My point was that I thought child support should be tax-deductible, and that alimony was a fair comparison

  58. WayneB Comment by WayneB

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    I have to agree with PC here. If someone has to split their income because of a divorce, the payouts should be deductible, because it’s a severe drain on the payer’s finances, whether it’s alimony, child support, or both.

  59. LC SkyeChild Comment by LC SkyeChild

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Ballistic spouts off:

    I mean, it’s not the woman’s fault that she didn’t bring anything to the table, and didn’t bother to educate or further her self, and it should be the man’s responsibility to support her worthless ass whether or not they’re married, right?

    I am tired, tonight, and cranky, so I will refrain from giving you BOTH barrels for that incredibly stupid, arrogant, ignorant, chauvinistic, remark, and will pray to GOD that your daughters, sisters, or nieces don’t marry someone like you.

    Idiot.

  60. Kristopher, LC Comment by Kristopher, LC

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    You’re a fucking woman, and why on earth wouldn’t it piss you off that a guy paying a woman for no other reason than she married into wealth gets a break?

    Take two women.

    One remains childless, and puts $1000 per year into investments … and ends up a millionaire.

    The second one forgoes becoming independently wealthy in order to bear and raise some rich person’s sprogs. Said rich person dumps her at age 40 for a new trophy wife.

    Do you just possibly think that woman two might just be owed something? If not … then why in the bloody hell would any woman fail to abort any children that aren’t paid for in advance?

    Bearing and raising children is a full time job … if you don’t like alimony, then stay a bachelor, or stay married.

  61. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    And it really pisses me off that alimony is tax deductible and child support is not!

    Is that true? even though you are supporting someone as a dependent, you cannot write it off as such?

  62. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    After all, this time it won’t be the same. This time it will work completely differently from the other 9,643 times it has been tried in various and sundry other countries using as many different models. It’s just that they didn’t know how to do it right, don’t you know?

    You mean it won’t be the same? This time we really, really, REALLY know how to pull it off right? It’s the magic number 9644th time that will work.

    Most of us want a single payer system

    Just when I thought DJ had finally settled onto a seat in the shortest bus, he bails and finds yet an even shorter bus to hop on.

    PC- Carefully read Brother BC’s advice on #42 twice, out loud and heed it. M’kay?

  63. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    Madame Psycho, Steve lives not far from me, and i actually met him several months ago when he dropped his boy off at my daughter’s b-day party. quite a decent dude. a month or so after i shook his hand, i got the job offer of a lifetime, so his golden touch does really rub off.

    plus i really dig my iMac and ProTools

  64. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Jackboot
    Okay. I’ll remove the foot from my mouth. It makes it hard to eat, anyway.

    SoCal
    Yeah, whoever has custody gets a deduction, and the other parent cannot deduct for their child support payments. I have stepkids who are getting grown (one in the Air Force!), but I know for a fact that you can’t deduct it. If you can deduct charitable donations, it seems like you should be able to deduct support payments.

  65. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Christopher
    Wow. I’m suffering from a severe case of envy. It’s probably stupid, but meeting him would excite me as much as meeting Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails).

    Congrats on the job! I’ve been using Macs since 1987. I was doing a lot of numbers processing and graphing and using a Mac instead of Dos opened up a whole new world to me. (Now, they aren’t quite as different, but I still love Macs.)

  66. Deathknyte Comment by Deathknyte

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    Chris tell me you did NOT buy an iphone.

  67. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Deathnyte
    I’ve been lusting over one, but don’t travel enough to justify it. But dammit, I want one!

  68. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    And in reality, the highest earners pay the lion’s share in taxes, while the lowest earners get money “back” that they didn’t earn in the first place…

    Have you ever gotten back MORE than you’ve paid in?

    I have been in a lot of low-wage jobs in my life (I’ve been in radio when it really did pay next to nothing). I have never received more in a tax refund than I paid in.

    I agree, the more money you have, the more you can spend on lawyers to find ways to get you out of paying. I think that 95 percent of the tax code is loopholes, and should be eliminated.

    If it were up to me, I would have a flat percentage across the board. Fifteen percent. Every dollar you earn, fifteen cents goes to Uncle Sam. I don’t care if you only make 100 bucks a year — fifteen of that goes to taxes, no exceptions, no loopholes. If you make a billion dollars, then 150 million of it is going to taxes. No exceptions.

    All that’s left to fight over is the percentage, and that should be determined by what the average government costs are over a five-year period.

    Unfortunately, none of that is realistic, especially since this administration has sold out the rug from underneath us in the form of debt to countries like China. They own us now, lock stock and barrel.

    Whodda thunk some thirty years ago that Red China would defeat us by lending us money?

  69. Xystus Comment by Xystus

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    Psychochick
    Pardon my late response (& a trope I’ve borrowed from a strong-willed brother), but:

    Are you the morality police?

    Did I say I was the morality police? Did I even say there was such an agency?

    Morality has nothing to do with belief in a God.

    Did I say it did? Actually we could argue this at length, as you suggested, but that’s not the point. The point is what Adams said.

    You didn’t like my reference to “their own little persons,” huh? I was trying to indicate people who don’t care about anyone but themselves. They want what they want when they want it, & they don’t give a rip about any “collateral damage,” nor will they take responsibility for their actions. They’re entitled, you see. A lot of ‘em are of course criminals, & the rest tend to be jerks, @$$#0£€$, predatory lawyers, corrupt politicians, general parasites & other assorted varieties of ¢0¢≤$µ¢≤€®$. You might be acquainted with some. When folks like these become a majority–if not before–our constitution will need setting aside, since we’ll require stronger government to keep all these bad citizens in check, & it won’t be pretty.
    Himmeldonnerwetter! Ist das nicht klar?

  70. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Xystus
    I fundamentally misunderstood what you said and should not have been so unpleasant. Sorry. I thought your immoral comment meant people who did not believe in a God. Now that I think about it more, that was clearly an over assumption. By “their own little persons,” I also thought you meant people immoral because of lack of belief in a deity. My God, I got everything wrong!

    As you define TOLP, I would have to agree with you. By the way, from a recent study, psycopaths are more prevalent in business than in general society. (In the sense of doing what is best for them and screwing other people, not as in mass murderer). Although I doubt it will get to the point where we need to set the constitution aside.

    By the way, I am half German and was fluent at one point!

  71. Redneck Comment by Redneck

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    DJ Allyn, ITW says:
    Have you ever gotten back MORE than you’ve paid in?

    Yes. It’s called Earned Income Credit and everyone that has at least one kid and/or earns less than $37,000 is eligible. One year, I paid maybe $400 in taxes and got $2000 in return.

    Kristopher, LC says:
    The second one forgoes becoming independently wealthy in order to bear and raise some rich person’s sprogs. Said rich person dumps her at age 40 for a new trophy wife.

    Do you just possibly think that woman two might just be owed something?

    No. I’m always appalled when people blame the man because the woman did nothing to further herself. She’s over 18 and made her own decision.

  72. El Jeffmon Comment by El Jeffmon

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    Why is a straight percentage for tax considered fair? Does it cost more to govern the nation if your income doubles? If I make no money at all, does it cost less?

    Our government is clearly way too large. It should provide national defense, and not much more. Each citizen needs to pay a tax calculated by dividing the cost to run the country by the number of citizens. Have a child? Pay more tax. Country goes to war? Pay more tax. War is won? Taxes go down. Don’t pay tax? You don’t vote, and your debt accumulates. Maybe we send a collector your way. With a flail.

    Most of us would pay more tax using this system, and we would certainly think really hard about adding more burden through government programs. I just don’t understand why we think the cost of government should be borne unequally.

  73. WayneB Comment by WayneB

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    Have you ever gotten back MORE than you’ve paid in?

    Every year after the Earned Income Credit was created until I FINALLY got above the qualifying income 2 years ago.

  74. Lady Heather Comment by Lady Heather

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    #68 Dave—-

    I just saw a pig fly by my window…I agree with everything you said in that post…if we have to pay taxes, that is the way to do it.

  75. LibraryGryffon Comment by LibraryGryffon

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    Alimony is deductable from taxable income for the payor. It IS taxable income for the payee.

    Child support is trickier. If it’s a significant amount the payor can indeed take the children as deductions (that’s one of the main reasons why there’s a little box to check for “not living at same address”. In that case the custodial parent can usually file as “head of household” which gets them a better standard deduction than “single”. Who gets to claim what is usually part of the divorce settlement. Strictly speaking whoever is providing 51% or greater of the child’s support gets to claim them, though to be honest the IRS really won’t get bent out of shape about it as long as both parents don’t try to claim the same kid.

    The first few years after my youngest was born, my parents claimed her as a deduction, because they were paying all her child care - I was only working part time and in school full time. When we worked it out, the child care fees were indeed worth monetarily more than what her father and I were providing in housing, clothing, and food.

    Working for H&R Block, no matter for how long nor how long ago, will color your attitude towards income and taxes for the rest of your life.

  76. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    DK, miss you brother. Come back to Bay Area soon. No iPhone, no intention to get one. since you were here my only purchases have been a fantastic Fender Jazz Bass, and a bitchin Mesa Boogie tube guitar amp.

    PsychoChick: what i like about the iMac is it’s widescreen, and the fact that it’s fantastic for hard disk recording with the ProTools set up, plus with the studio monitors already there, it’s the perfect DVD watching environment, as it’s widescreen.

    plus it’s REALLY quiet so no noise bleeds into recordings… i used to have to try to isolate my PC tower

  77. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    more Iran Hangings….but Bush is WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    no matter what goes on in the world or why, Bush is WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

    jackass

  78. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    Unfortunately, none of that is realistic, especially since this administration has sold out the rug from underneath us in the form of debt to countries like China. They own us now, lock stock and barrel…Whodda thunk some thirty years ago that Red China would defeat us by lending us money?

    Yawn. Kos regurgitation #858. What are the Chins going to do Dave? Call in all their bonds at once? Are they going to call in their bonds well before the maturation date just to show us they can.

    That’s called floating money without gain. Or giving us a free ride. If the ricers want to do that, and take it up the ass, they are more than welcome.

    If that’s their style I’ll get my next mortgage from them.

    That may be THE MOST SHALLOW of all the loon talking points. :em72:

  79. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    Re palimony and splitting of assets: I’m a bit on the fence with that one. The original intent was to make sure that divorced women who’d spent their entire lives as homemakers weren’t suddenly left without a way to make a living after a divorce. Fair enough, and definitely defensible, if you ask me. After all, in a partnership like that it would be hard to imagine the husband making his fortune without the invaluable assistance on the homefront, allowing him to focus on his career (it works the other way as well, but I’m sticking to traditional gender roles here for simplicity).

    Oh, but wasn’t it the husband’s hard work that made it possible for the wife to stay at home too? Yes, but unlike the husband, her skills aren’t very marketable as a single woman.

    At any rate, a marriage is a partnership and, in my opinion, when a partnership like breaks up, the assets built as a result of that partnership should be divided equally.

    Note the emphasis, because it leads to my “on the other hand.”

    There is, in my opinion, absolutely no good, fair or logical reason why, to name just one example, Heather What’s-her-face should be entitled to a healthy chunk of Paul McCartney’s fortune simply because she was married to him for a couple of years. How, exactly, did she contribute to the wealth of the partnership? He was a farkin’ multi-millionaire before she was even a horny glint in her daddy’s eye. If she hadn’t been there, he’d have been just as rich. Unless, of course, you’re arguing that umpteen million dollars are fair and reasonable compensation for the time she spent on her back. Then again, I thought that particular profession was illegal in this country and, at any rate, I think you could make a fairly good case for “selling at way above market value.”

    But that’s what pre-nups are for. Were I a multi-millionaire and not already very happily married, there’s no woman on the face of the planet that would make me march down the aisle without signing one of those.

    And that’s just the assets issue. Then there’s the whole palimony bit on top of it. To be sure, it would be an unconscionable idea to just shove the Missus out on the street and let her fend for herself after she’d sacrificed years of advancement and marketable skills development by being the “silent partner” in the marriage. On the other hand, does this mean that she should be completely without personal responsibility for her life after the marriage is dissolved, indefinitely? How about making the alimony payments last only as long as the marriage did? I mean, let’s say that you’ve been married for two years before the both of you realized that it wasn’t going to work. Is it really fair to make one of the two pay the other’s way for the remaining 50-70 years of his or her life?

    Just thinking out loud.

    (And how the Hell did we end up on that issue?)

  80. Alan K. Henderson Comment by Alan K. Henderson

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    And about as many outright atheists … Franklin was a member of the Hellfire Club … heh.

    Franklin was unorthodox in both his theism and deism. From Wikipedia:

    Walter Isaacson argues that Franklin became uncomfortable with an unenhanced version of deism and comes up with his own conception of the Creator. Franklin outlined his concept of deity in 1728, in his “Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion”. From this, Isaacson compares Franklin’s conception of deity to that of strict deists and orthodox Christians. Isaacson concludes that unlike most pure deists, Franklin believed that a faith in God should inform our daily actions, but that, like other deists, his faith was devoid of sectarian dogma.

    At the Constitutional Convention in 1787, when the convention seemed to head for disaster due to heated debate, the elderly Franklin displayed his conviction of a deity that was intimately involved in human affairs by requesting that each day’s session begin with prayers. Franklin recalled the days of the Revolutionary War, when the American leaders assembled in prayer daily, seeking “divine guidance” from the “Father of lights.” He then rhetorically asked, “And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance?”

    The Hellfire Club sounds like an extension of his self-confessed “intrigues with low women” (quoting from his autobiography) during his days in Great Britain.

  81. Kristopher, LC Comment by Kristopher, LC

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    Redneck:
    No. I’m always appalled when people blame the man because the woman did nothing to further herself. She’s over 18 and made her own decision.

    A woman has a limited amount of time during her life to bear children. And she does not have any free time to “further herself” while this is going on. Bearing children will permanently screw up her lifetime earnings potential.

    If you are not willing to compensate a woman for putting her life on hold to bear your sprogs, then why in the bloody hell should ANY woman mate with someone with that attitude?

    Having sex with such an unresponsible clod would be the worst mistake any woman could make.

  82. DJ Allyn,  ITW Comment by DJ Allyn, ITW

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    [I got behind and am catching up now while I wait for the kid to fly his arse down here and pick me up…]

    What? You expect government to just hand over funds and otherwise mind their own fucking business? You can’t fucking fart without government interference and control in such a system, and if there’s something that the employees (from janitors to surgeons) don’t have, then it’s any sort of influence on their pay.

    Here is the problem with this whole topic as I see it…

    People seem to think that we have to adopt some other county’s health care plan instead of tailor making one for ourselves — that addresses the issues you are talking about.

  83. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    People seem to think that we have to adopt some other county’s health care plan instead of tailor making one for ourselves — that addresses the issues you are talking about.

    No, it doesn’t.

    Because that’s exactly what every single one of those other countries said too.

    Fact remains: When you get the government involved in anything, you end up with BATFE, Homeland Security, the DMV, the USPS or worse (hard as that is to imagine).

    What? You think that the country of my birth or any of the other ones woke up one morning and thought: “Hey, let’s create an enormous bureaucracy accountable to no one, with 10 chiefs to every Indian, overpriced and with worse service than a brothel in Jamaica?”

    The only way to ensure accountability and checks and balances is to let the free market deal with it. Choice, my friend, it’s what it’s all about. Once you remove choice, everything else goes to Hell.

    Because people are self-centered, lying, opportunistic, backstabbing assholes.

    It’s a fact of life.

    Again: Spare me the “we will come up with the perfect solution, it’s just that the other 5.75 billion people on the planet are morons, when it hasn’t worked for anyone, ever, in the entire history of mankind.” I know that you know what the definition of trying the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result is.

  84. Ten-Ten Comment by Ten-Ten

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    Morality has nothing to do with belief in a God.

    Could be.

    But, if we’re random, and subject to natural selection and aspire to survival of the fittest, wouldn’t it be in our best interest to lie, cheat, steal, and kill all of our competition for mates, food and status? Is our conscience, our sense of right and wrong merely a concept? A decision we all make? Or could it be imputed to us by a creator? As far a belief in God, isn’t it true that if I don’t believe in gravity and jump off of the roof, I’ll still break my fool neck? Just because you don’t believe, doesn’t mean it’s not true. I know how old and tired that analogy is, but it still works.

    If it were up to me, I would have a flat percentage across the board. Fifteen percent. Every dollar you earn, fifteen cents goes to Uncle Sam. I don’t care if you only make 100 bucks a year — fifteen of that goes to taxes, no exceptions, no loopholes. If you make a billion dollars, then 150 million of it is going to taxes. No exceptions

    I absolutley agree, well, almost. Every American benfits equally from the same protections under the Gubmint, Military and other infrastructure. I would suggest, the higher the income level, the lower the tax rate. The wealthy would still pay more dollars, but wouldn’t be penalized for being successful.

  85. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >Once you remove choice, everything else goes to Hell.

    But liberals and other collectivists don’t care if we all go to Hell, as long as everybody sits in coach.

    >Fifteen percent

    15% seems low compared to the horrific amount that is stolen from us right now, but that’s still about 14% too much. Stop the feds from doing things that aren’t constitutional, and 1% would be more than enough.

  86. Trooper THX1138 Comment by Trooper THX1138

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    But liberals and other collectivists don’t care if we all go to Hell, as long as everybody sits in coach.

    you mean here?

    I don’t think they even have an airport.

  87. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Tsubaki
    The liberals I know want everyone to have a wonderful life. The question is how to achieve it. I’m showing remarkable restraint in not threatening you with naked Homer Simpsons. I think it would be okay as camaraderie, but I wouldn’t want to feel like I was stifling free speech, not that you couldn’t take it! Just switch nameplates with the Japanese lady.

    And as far as your racism comment from yesterday, I think you are partially correct. Mostly, the site is not racist. However, we had a Jewish member called a LAMPSHADE by another member. Several people want to move out of states that are heavily Latino. There was a comment to deport Hispanics who go back 5 or 6 generations, and there is the periodic call to exterminate all the Muslims in the world. Someone did make a racist post about blacks, but Misha came out with some perfectly done guidance. (It sounds like I’m catalouging–I just have a good memory.)

    Trooper
    That is so funny. I think I need to go there to say I’ve been to Hell. Maybe that’s what those Christians do on the videos when they say they’ve seen Hell and returned from it

    10 10
    I understand your point, but there is a strong argument to made for cooperation helping survival. I think there is even some research on primates to suggest that, although I don’t remember the detail. Plus, you generally grow up around other people and learn your morality from them, preferably from nice and helpful people as role models. Belief in a God does not guarantee morality in my experience. (Although a certain amount of behavior is genetically determined, according to the identical twins studies.) All the people I hang out with are nice, and they are all over the map religion-wise.

  88. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    I think this bridge collapse is just hilarious…I recall the stories a few years back how the “dumb” Russians couldn’t walk in Moscow without falling in a hot steam sinkhole in the sidewalks, symptoms undoubtedly of their “inferior” collectivist remnant infrastructure…Shit… compare that to obese amerimutants being steam roasted in NY and crunched to smithereens under bridges…Hilarious!…And what a message from “your god” which you serve as a side dish 24/7?

    How could anyone question these uber-patriot’s patriotism. LEFT IS AMERICA!

  89. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    RR
    You’re on the wrong thread (not that I haven’t done such a thing). You know that is not representative of the views on that blog–You had to read down a ways to get it to it.

    1) You cannot say this is typical of the liberal/left when it is the only post like that

    2) The person’s tagline is Europe2, strongly implying he/she is not American. From their previous posts, they seem to hate America.

  90. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    You know that is not representative of the views on that blog–You had to read down a ways to get it to it… You cannot say this is typical of the liberal/left when it is the only post like that

    It’s not typical - it’s far less obnoxious than most.

    Liberals = Fertilizer..Just far more offensive!

  91. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    RR
    I guess we live in parallel universes. I guess you are joking, and I should go away, but I feel very strongly.

    Nothing on that blog to me compared with what you cited and also part of that post: “compare that to obese amerimutants being steam roasted in NY”

    —my God–that sounds like a terrorist’s level of hate to the US
    —again, the tag line is Europe2, and they refer to “you” in referring to things across the US

    To me, that is so much worse than the Bush conspiracy whackos or the people that compare war spending to infrastructure spending.

    Maybe I didn’t go far enough (and I went aways), but find me something worse than being steam-roasted in NY and then tell me that is not an atypical post.

    -providing quality fertilizer since 1962

  92. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    again, the tag line is Europe2, and they refer to “you” in referring to things across the US

    Cowardly (surprising) method of deflecting attention from their vile vomit.

    Who would question that a Euroshit would say that? - Perfect!

  93. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    Anyway, this kind of anti-Americanism should be met by a horrendous atrocity perpetration!

    Odios fuckups demand a RUTHLESS! response!

  94. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    RR
    I see your logic, but I think you are wrong for 2 reasons:

    1) the weakest is that someone this hateful would be bragging about his views (I’ll be sexist, but I think it’s a guy) and not be pretending to be Euro when he’s actually US

    2) he’s full of hatred for other countries, too, and he really sounds European

    “DO NOT CONFUSE THE BRITSHITs with Europeans.

    They are ATLANTISTS (always have been) never European, still not using the Euro.

    I actually agree with you about britshits and Africa…and chips up uk’s asses.
    The only problem with vaporizing them too is… they’re bit close.”
    ———
    I’m not into premature assasination, but I hope his country is monitoring this guy. He meets my definition of evil–gloating over disasters. I hope he’s on the terrorist watch list. (I hope I’m not, after all the extremist web sites I’ve been to)
    ———-
    I can’t read what it says below the P word. Can you enlighten me?

  95. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >The liberals I know want everyone to have a wonderful life.

    Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

    >The question is how to achieve it.

    And the collectivist types seem to think that the way to achieve it is by taking away individual liberty and making everybody equally miserable.

    >Just switch nameplates with the Japanese lady.

    Oh, I already have, and she won’t notice it until the fall semester starts!

    >And as far as your racism comment from yesterday, I think you are partially correct.

    Remember, I didn’t say that there were NO idiotic racist conservatives, but that it is the exception, and that it hasn’t been institutionalized as it has been on a glorious scale by the left.

    >there is the periodic call to exterminate all the Muslims in the world.

    That’s not racist. It may be a bias against a certain religion, but it’s not racist.

    >I can’t read what it says below the P word. Can you enlighten me?

    I think it says “It’s cheaper than dating.”

  96. LC Stargazer Comment by LC Stargazer

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    Ten-ten: But, if we’re random, and subject to natural selection and aspire to survival of the fittest, wouldn’t it be in our best interest to lie, cheat, steal, and kill all of our competition for mates, food and status? Is our conscience, our sense of right and wrong merely a concept? A decision we all make? Or could it be imputed to us by a creator? As far a belief in God, isn’t it true that if I don’t believe in gravity and jump off of the roof, I’ll still break my fool neck? Just because you don’t believe, doesn’t mean it’s not true. I know how old and tired that analogy is, but it still works.

    Actually, no, it doesn’t mean that at all. Humans cooperate as a survival strategy, and ethics/morality codifies how that cooperation takes place. One’s conscience is that internal governor that forces you to think about what you’re doing if you violate the codes you’ve learned as a kid.

    Doesn’t require religion to work, though religion is one way it manifests.

    And I’m afraid your analogy is backwards. Gravity can be measured, in its effects if nothing else. God tends to hide much better than that.

  97. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Tsubaki
    Thanks. Your comments are always insightful even if I sometimes (ahem) disagree with them. Yes, I guess collectivists would be suppressive of liberty by definition. I have only once met a collectivist, but maybe I should go hang out in social sciences. The people in the Cold War Studies program here don’t seem radical.

    “cheaper than dating”–Boy, he’s clever

    I was checking out the CP website last night. I was curious how their current goals compared to that 40 year old list you gave me. The part I read in the old one wasn’t that worrisome–ugly art, for instance, but I need to spend a lot more time on it– the scary parts probably come later. I couldn’t find a brief list of current goals in the current one (except for the nationalization of corporations, but not small businesses and farms [no definition of small], and the standard stuff–to each according to his needs), and the essay went on endlessly–I gave up. There’s only so much of my life I’m willing to devote to the CP, especially at bedtime. They clearly have no editors among their membership.

    I wonder how many watch lists I’m on for checking out extremist groups. Hopefully they have more important people to worry about. Does anybody know if checking out sites gets you red-flagged?

    –Army of God
    –Aryan Nations
    –KKK
    –Brotherhood..KKK
    –Socialist Workers Party
    –Communist Party
    –Taliban

    The Brotherhood site explicity states they are considered a terrorist group, which brought me joy, along with some worry. My greatest concern was that Taliban site linked to from here. The internet is facilitating the creation of new terrorist cell groups, so it seems like it would be monitored. But there are probaby all sorts of jihad sites we don’t know about that people use to link up.

    by the way, if you want an intellectual challenge, go to aryannations.com and try to understand their argument for why Jesus wasn’t a Jew. I gave up with a bad headache, but then I’m not a theologian.

  98. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >I have only once met a collectivist

    So, you’re saying that, other than that one person, you’ve never met any modern American liberals? You don’t know any people who agree with the ideology espoused by people like John Kerry, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden, Barbara Boxer, Chuck Schumer, Barak Obama, or any of the other Democrat Party establishment? You don’t know people who support nanny-state programs like Social Security, government health care, heavy regulation of commerce and industry, price supports, minimum wage requirements, and welfare schemes? That’s all collectivism. That’s all anti-liberty. That’s all a form of slavery. That’s all part of the Democrat Party platform.

    Unfortunately, the Republicans have bought into it as well, so now we’ve got two parties that are essentially collectivist in ideology and platform, but haven’t gotten quite to the violent level that the Communist parties of some countries have (though the Democrats often straddle and sometimes cross over that line). The Democrat Party is laying out the red carpet for communism, and has been doing so for decades. It’s always shocking that people aren’t paying attention enough to see the slide. It’s even more shocking that people are foolish enough to give away their liberty for what will ultimately be fleeting and illusory. Collectivist schemes, whether in the Soviet Union, Cuba, or the Democrat Party, have never, do not now, and never will bring peace, prosperity, and liberty.

  99. Ten-Ten Comment by Ten-Ten

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    Stargazer

    Gravity can be measured, in its effects if nothing else. God tends to hide much better than that.

    I see the proof of God every time I open my eyes. We call it Creation. And that pesky conscience tells people that it’s true.

    The thing is, people will argue this point til the end of time. I would just ask everyone to consider this: What if you’re wrong? How horrible would it be to find out too late? It’s easy to get caught up in “I want to win this agument.” But truly, it’s out of concern. Just think about it.

  100. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >try to understand their argument for why Jesus wasn’t a Jew

    Yeah, I’ve heard a variety of arguments for why Jesus wasn’t a Jew. They often try to play semantics games to twist it all, but if a Jew is defined as a descendant of Judah, son of Jacob, and the genealogies given in the New Testament are accepted as true, then Jesus was most definitely a Jew. He was of the tribe of Judah.

    An expression equivalent to “Jew” was also used to refer to those who remained in and around Jerusalem (the land and the city), or anywhere in what became the Kingdom of Judah, actually, regardless of which of the 13 tribes (since Joseph was recognized as two tribes) the individuals belonged to. After the northern tribes were taken into captivity by Assyria, most of the people who remained were of the tribes of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin, with some others mixed in, but collectively they were “Jews” by being part of the kingdom that was ruled for generations by a descendant of Judah.

    By either of these most basic/normal definitions, Jesus was clearly a Jew.

    White supremacist types tend to be afflicted with a shocking inability to apply any logical thought processes to scripture (or anything else, for that matter).

  101. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

    Strict Standards: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, non-static method emotions::filter_text() should not be called statically in /home/misha/public_html/2007/wp-includes/plugin.php on line 59

    >I see the proof of God every time I open my eyes.

    The earth, its movement, everything on it, the planets, and the entire universe all witness that there is a Supreme Creator. There’s nothing as out in the open as the power and works of God. It’s manifest everywhere. Whether people recognize what’s right in front of them or not is another issue, but it’s there.

  102. SoCalOilMan, LC Comment by SoCalOilMan, LC

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    PC

    Does anybody know if checking out sites gets you red-flagged?

    When Homeland Security shows up at the door, just mention the Rott and drop Misha’s name and that way they may not go directly to water boarding. It’ll buy you some time till they check it out, just ignore the dark sedan that seems to be wherever you go over the next couple of days.

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    I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…