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Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Hugo Chavez Suspends Democracy in Venezuela
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(Via The Jawa Report):

The Venezuelan strongman Hugo Chavez has anointed himself president for life by proposing sweeping changes to the country’s constitution.

Setting out his plans for completing his socialist revolution in the oil-rich Latin American nation, he proposing radical constitutional reform which has at its centre indefinite re-election for himself.

I suppose that means that we won’t have to endure the Libtard Moonbats yammering about how the Eeeevil KKKonservatives in this country are “just out to destroy the fledgling, struggling ‘democracy’ of Venezuela?”

Who am I kidding? They’ll just move the goalposts again. Besides, they’re too busy gibbering about the Evil Bu$hHitler plotting to suspend elections and declare martial law in 2008 to bother paying attention to a socialist fuckwit actually abolishing democracy.

Socialists. Patton was right. Why did we leave the job unfinished in ‘45, succeeding only in wiping out the national socialists? The rest of them need to be exterminated as well. With extreme prejudice.

58 Responses to “Hugo Chavez Suspends Democracy in Venezuela”
  1. LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR Comment by LC JackBoot IC/A-OBR

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    Patton was right, even more than he could envision. McArthur as well.

    Bastards, when are we going to get serious and eliminate this malignancy?

    Answer: Never. The left will always have its apologists and supporters.
    :em98:

  2. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    I fully expect Hillary Clinton to do this very same thing, should she get elected. Bill at one point talked of repealing the 22nd amendment.

  3. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    I haven’t been this surprised since, say, George Michael came out of the closet :shock:

    Sky: Don’t worry about that. To pull off a coup like that she’d need the military’s support. Can anyone honestly imagine she’d have it?

  4. Unregistered Comment by crazylegs

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    If Hillary thinks she’s going to get rid of the 22nd, she’s going to wind up dealing with some fans of the 2nd.

    She can change the laws to her hearts content, the items in my armory don’t change until I want them to.

  5. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    She would like to, Skyechild. But I have to agree with Crazylegs on this one. No way in Hell.

    Although there are ways she could try.

    Take a read through that little novel and see what you think, folks.

    If it interests you, you might also take a look here.

    Just gonna have to see if these links get shot in the head…

  6. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    RR:

    Sky: Don’t worry about that. To pull off a coup like that she’d need the military’s support. Can anyone honestly imagine she’d have it?

    and Crazylegs:

    If Hillary thinks she’s going to get rid of the 22nd, she’s going to wind up dealing with some fans of the 2nd.

    May I respectfully suggest that you read Tom Krtatman’s first novel “State of Disobedience”. It’s a couple of years old, but is still in print. Without using her name, it is a look at a Hitlary Presidency, and quite engaging.

    ==========================

    As to Hugo Chavez, does anyone really think they can convince me that this wasn’t obviously coming about 3 years ago?

  7. LC Wil Comment by LC Wil

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    Ptahhhhh! KRATMAN!

    [takes off gloves]

    PIMF.

  8. Unregistered Comment by Infidel River Rat

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    Nahn nah,nah, the Venezuelan election was ’suhtehfied honest by ‘ol Dhimmeh Kahtuh himsef’! It’s awww raht fo’ the lehfties! If Sean Penn, Cindy sheehag, Danny Glover, et al. are truly that enthralled by that socialist POS tinpot asswipe muthafuckin’ sheepprapist, why don’t they emigrate to Venezuela?

  9. Len-KC Comment by Len-KC

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    RR,
    The “Token Liberal” speaks volumes through his silence. Of course, since re-writing our Constitution is OK, a redo on Venezuela’s is really no big thing.

  10. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Radical Redneck,

    I admit I don’t know much about politics, but I see one way she possibly could. She gets elected, and we get attacked. She declares martial law. Martial law (from what I understand) supercedes the Constitution. She just “amends” the constitution while we are under martial law.

  11. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    I admit I don’t know much about politics, but I see one way she possibly could. She gets elected, and we get attacked. She declares martial law. Martial law (from what I understand) supercedes the Constitution. She just “amends” the constitution while we are under martial law.

    Still not particularly worried here. I mean, she might want to, but the moment she (or anybody else) tried such a thing, there’d be 80 million pissed off gun nuts itching to “amend” her physical presence, thorough full-body ventilation being the preferred attitude readjustment tool.

  12. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    No, they don’t work unless you want to go in and edit the “nicedoggie.net/2007/” out of them…

    Dammit! This should have posted four hours ago!!!@ ^whinging horribly^

    [You forgot the http:// in the first one. When you leave that part out, the software assumes that you’re pointing to something on this site — Emp. M.]

  13. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    IRR
    Just because he’s officially a dictator does not mean the election was not valid. He does seem to have a lot of popular support that will probably go away as he gets more repressive. Hitler was elected and spent the next year legally consolidating his power before he really took over. At first, Hitler took all these unemployed people from the Depression and gave them jobs, so initially he was well-liked (mother who grew up in Nazi Germany).

    What is there to say about Chavez? There’s officially a president for life/dictator in South America who has a lot of oil and was negotiating for 5 Russian subs. You know it’s also possible that DJ might have some other work to do. I think it’s a little conspiracy theory to assume his views on the topic based on his absence. I’m not psychic (just psycho)–just a guess.

    Honestly, you guys are so weird about Hillary. She’s a politician, not the devil incarnate. You might want to rename the BDS as HDS and apply it to yourselves. Bush is the one who just made it easier to declare martial law; it’s ironic you worry about Hillary. Actually, I was unaware of the 2008 plot. Maybe I don’t run in the right circles!

    Also, it’s kind of an over-assumption that she would end up president. There are several other Democratic contenders, and she is both well-liked and hated. Plus there is the possibility that a Republican might win.

  14. CiSSnarl5.7 Comment by CiSSnarl5.7

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    Just because he’s officially a dictator does not mean the election was not valid.

    Too tired ot verify all this …but the entire thing can be read here.. quite interesting…

    But what is the likelihood that one side could lose in an exit poll by 18%, and win the election the same day by 18%? That, statisticians tell us, is virtually impossible. And that is what happened in Venezuela.

    Doug Schoen, is a very respected Democratic Party pollster. He was President Clinton’s favorite pollster, and remember that Clinton was so obsessed by polls that he once conducted a survey to determine where he should take his summer vacation in 1996. Schoen was a busy man during the Clinton years. Schoen’s firm, which was hired by an opposition group in Venezuela, conducted pre—election surveys, and also undertook a large exit poll on the day of the Chavez recall. His pre—election surveys indicated that those who wanted to recall Chavez were ahead by at least 10%, and gaining momentum. In his exit poll, the margin for the anti—Chavez side grew to 18%. Schoen expressed disbelief when the results showed that Chavez retained his office by the same 18% margin. That, of course, is a 36% swing from an exit poll conducted the same day, or about six times the margin of error in terms of a vote shift. We are talking here of many standard deviations away from the expected result. That result is about as likely as Osama Bin Laden agreeing to be on Bill O’Reilly’s show in person tomorrow night.

  15. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    PC,

    She may not be the devil incarnate, but she’s a socialist, and I’d sooner trust the devil himself.
    Even Bill Clinton said he’d be in favor of rescinding (repealing) the 22nd amendment because then there would be no more term limits for the presidency.

    To say I distrust Hillary is different from those suffering from BDS, where there is NO logical thought associated with it at all.

    Most of the “talking heads” have given Hillary the nomination. And, as I see it, unless Fred! makes a decent showing, about the only person the Republicans have who can beat her is Rudy.

  16. maxxdog Comment by maxxdog

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    I’m for whoever runs against her.
    Warspite repeatedly warned us against letting that harpy have the reins of this nation. She is a fucking socialist and will lead this country into a world of hurt! The military will be shackled in the WOT. Imagine her as CIC! That should hurt the brain more than a BC link! Seriously, think about that.
    She won’t stop with taking the oil companies profits to pay for the “greater good” either. She will increase corporate tax rates and we’ll pay those taxes through higher prices and stagnant wage increases. Socialized medicine will put the dagger in. We simply cannot afford to have Shillery in the WH. We couldn’t count on the Repubs to challenge her even if they were to win the Senate and House back.

  17. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Snarl
    It now looks invalid to me–thanks

    SkyeChild
    Wasn’t it beloved FDR that wanted to get rid of term limits and couldn’t do it? (could be wrong) How on earth could Hillary with all that baggage be able to accomplish that? That would be a frightening thought.

    Remember that little quiz you gave me? I thought it was perfectly reasonable as a way to guage how I felt on various things. However you had a yes answer to any of 6 questions as indicating that I was a socialist. Well 1/6 does not indicate a strongly held view. People often hold mixes of views across different ideologies: socially liberal/fiscally conservative, for instance. I guess the point is that your definition of a socialist can be lightly induced.

    BDS: I think there is some merit for it. I think Bush is not very bright, but that doesn’t mean his administration couldn’t be doing complicated conspiracy-type things (do not believe 9/11 hoax theory). I don’t blame everything wrong in the world on him. It’s become like the bogeyman: bad thing–must be due to Bush/Rove. I find the Hitler comparison way out there and was not familiar with that before joining the board. (deleted a significant section on Hal to not get invective–don’t think the war was started to benefit them –little too conspiratorial)

    However, it’s possible to hold disparate sets of views, and my opinions of the administration do not affect my view that I hope we win the war with as few casualities as possible. (I guess that means I don’t have BDS?) Although the more I read about Al-Sadr’s people infiltrating the Iraqi forces, the more depressed I get.

  18. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    PC

    When those who label Bush as dumb get into the cockpit of a jet plane and fly it without incident, I may give them some credence. You may not be a socialist, but Hillary is…through and through. She plays a good game…she’s sly and deceitful, which is why I say that I’d sooner trust the devil. I KNOW his “stripes,” if you will…

  19. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    She’s also cold and calculating; every move she makes is orchestrated. I consider her very, very dangerous.

  20. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    SkyeChild
    How do you know those kind of people aren’t flying military planes? There are some liberals in the military, but they tend to hide their views so they don’t get in trouble.

    Even Bush’s previous chief of staff said that right after Bush was talking to his parents, he would ask some probing question, and he would know that’s not Bush. Not being impressed with Bush’s intelligence is hardly a rare view. It’s obviously hard to be sure unless you know him personally. The people who have worked with him have said they found him not very intellectually curious and not liking to discuss policy. I fail to see how an opinion of Bush’s intelligence would affect flight performance. major apples and oranges. I actually am not that happy with the implication that thinking Bush is dumb means you aren”t intellectually capable to perform difficult tasks.

    Hillary is my least favorite Democratic nominee (and I do prefer a couple Republicans over her). Actually, the one who is probably the best qualified (Richardson) gets barely any comment. Thanks for your posts–at least now I have some understanding why you are so terribly upset about HIllary. I will say that being orchestrated is very smart for a politician. I would not hold that against her.

    She has such high negative ratings. I guess I should check the polls lately, but it seemed to me like it would be very hard for her to win. Plus she’s so hated on the right, if she were the nominee, that would galvanize an intense fury of political activity against her. (more than normal)

  21. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    PC,

    I would guess it would depend on one’s definition of “dumb,” then. Why is Bush not so bright? Because he trips over his words? Okay, so do I, sometimes. My father, one of the smartest people I know, says liberry for library and warlus for walrus. Eisenhower mangled his speech MUCH worse than Bush does. Was he dumb? He was a five-star general. I seriously doubt it.

    Is Bush “not so bright” because he does things with which you disagree? What has Bush said or done that you label him as such? Or are you just spouting talking points?

  22. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    SkyeChild
    I don’t DO talking points. Please remember that and don’t ever insult me again with that question. I generally spend about half an hour writing and editing my posts: “spouting?”

    It has nothing to do with disagreeing with his policies. I thought Nixon was really bright, but strongly disagreed with most of what he did. Now that I think about it, the people generally doing things I disagree with are bright enough to pull off doing them, which is why they concern me. Usually there is a certain level of competency implied by the actions. Can’t comment on Eisenhower–he was before my time. Everything I’ve read indicates he was highly intelligent.

    Tripping over words doesn’t help, but if what is said is intelligent, that doesn’t matter. I have not been impressed with his answers to questions. I just quoted his former chief of staff (hardly a left-wing lunatic) on his level of questions asked. The people I’ve read who have worked with him are not complimentary about his level of curiousity. Maybe he is intelligent, but uninterested.. Apparently, he likes to hear his views and does not want to hear dissenting opinions. When some people talk, you go “wow! Well, not with him.

    Stop being so snarky and quit the insulting comments. I said I thought Bush was dumb, which is my right. I didn’t say he was evil. It’s a really mild thing to say compared to what gets said about all the Democratic candidates here. Last night, we had an utterly obscene post about Hillary’s genitals. Granted, this is a right-wing blog, so I wouldn’t expect anybody to like Democrats. Didn’t you compare Hillary to the devil?

    I do appreciate your taking the time to show why you hate Hillary so much. I could never understand why people hated her so. Although I did read a pretty nasty piece in “The Nation” about her being imperious and not getting people to work with her. She tried to take over part of Al Gore’s office. It further convinced me that I didn’t want her to be the Democratic nominee.

  23. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    PC,

    There was no term limits for FDR to get rid of. The tradition was that presidents would run two terms and then leave office. FDR ran for a third and then a fourth term because of World War II. He did not believe that anyone else would be willing to take the chances to support England against Hitler (1940) and he wanted to see thing through (1944), although we wouldn’t know until after his death that run for that fourth term was bad for his health. The 22nd amendment was pass to keep another person from running after two straight terms.

  24. Redeard Comment by Redeard

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    The 22nd was ratified in 1951.

  25. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >compare Hillary to the devil

    That would never do. Satan has much more class.

  26. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >FDR

    Shudder

  27. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Leoni
    Thanks! Maybe you could recommend a good US history book for me. I need to brush up. I need a better grip on pre-1960.

  28. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    Redeard,

    The 22nd was ratified in 1951.

    Hmmm, and that was when Harry ‘The Buck Stops Here’ Truman was in the White House. And the Congress was under Republican control? Anyway, that was way, way, after FDR was put to rest in Hyde Park.

  29. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Tsubaki
    I guess you guys consider him a raging socialist and a traitor for having sold out Eastern Europe. But didn’t he bring us out of the depression?

  30. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    PC,

    I said I thought Bush was dumb, which is my right.

    Yes, it is your right. And when I asked you WHY, all
    you could do is repeat what you said earlier..about what his chief of staff and others have said about him.

    Maybe he is intelligent, but uninterested.. Apparently, he likes to hear his views and does not want to hear dissenting opinions

    That is also quite possible. And there are plenty on both sides of the aisle who don’t wish to hear dissenting opinions. That doesn’t necessarily make them dumb, just stubborn, perhaps.

    And, I did not compare Hillary to the devil. I said I would trust the devil before I would trust her.

  31. LC HJ Caveman82952 Comment by LC HJ Caveman82952

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    Hillary is a scheming, megalomanic suffering from grand dillusions of relevancy and purpose. She rode in on Bills coattails, seeking little but to shove down our throats her idea of nirvana and good will among all. Meaning no free will, no guns, no dissent and no money. I keep my powder dry, for unlike some, I believe it could happen here, but will not as long as we have amendment two and the means and guts to back it up. We do…and they know it. I’d just as soon be dead than live in her ideal world, but I’d plan on being the last one dying, not the first.

  32. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    SkyeChild
    Not to put too fine a point on it. I can live either way. But wasn’t comparing trusting the devil before trusting her a comparison?

    I have a highly subjective opinion because I do not know the man. All I can go by is my impressions and what I have read about the people who have worked with him. It remains an opinion, because it is not possible to document. Normally I like to rely on data, but it’s not really possible in this case. I could be wrong about him. It’s just an opinion. I wouldn’t bet my life on it.

    I suspect most people don’t consider dissenting views. But I think the president needs to be discussing different options to make the best and most informed decisions. That scares me that, if true, he does not.

  33. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    PC,

    I’ll give you six, although some may dispute my selections.

    Stephen E. Ambrose’s 2-vol. biography on Eisenhower:
    Eisenhower, Volume 1: Soldier, General of the Army, President-Elect, 1890-1952 and Eisenhower, Volume 2: Eisenhower the President, 1952-1969.

    William L. O’Neill’s A Democracy at War: America’s Fight at Home & Abroad in World War II.

    David Fromkin’s In the Time of the Americans: FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Marshall, MacArthur - The Generation That Changed America’s Role in the World.

    Omar N. Bradle’s (with Clay Blair) Autobiography, A General’s Life.

    Doris Kearns Goodwin’s No Ordinary Time: Franklin & Eleanor Roosevelt: The Home Front in World War II. (And Tsubaki Shijuro hold thy tongue!)

    and Joseph Lawton Collins’ Autobiography Lighting Joe: An Autobiography. (You might have a hard time finding this one. It was published in 1979 by Louisiana State University. I’d bought it from them while an undergrad and I’m not sure if its still in print.)

    (And yes, I’d read all of them. I’d refused to recommend something I haven’t read at least once.)

    Anyone else want to add any reading material on pre-1960 American History to PC? My history degree was on Early Modern European History (1641 (Battle of Rocroi) to 1789) with US History as a minor. Go ahead. :D We want to be sure she gets educated, right?

  34. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >I guess you guys consider him a raging socialist and a traitor for having sold out Eastern Europe.

    Well, yes, but the Raw Deal is his shining moment as a collectivist. It set liberty back to a pre-1776 level.

    >But didn’t he bring us out of the depression?

    No. That’s a common myth. The Raw Deal actually made it harder for the depression to end in the United States. (And remember, it was essentially a worldwide depression.) Not only that, it cursed us with socialist schemes that are killing the country to this day.

  35. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    PC,

    At this time, I do not have a general US History book, and I haven’t touch one since college. The one that I did have I got rid of before I’d moved to my first apartment back in 2000. Anyone who might have a suggestion of a general history for PC to look at, please do so.

  36. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >And Tsubaki Shijuro hold thy tongue!

    Sorry, not when it comes to a thug like that who has done more lasting damage to the United States than any other president in history!

  37. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    leoni
    Thanks! On the one hand, I always appreciate thoroughness. On the other hand, I’m kind of intimidated!

  38. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    Tsubaki Shijuro,

    So, tell me. Know what Ms. Goodwin’s book was about, in general. Just the book.

    PC,

    It’s only intimidating if you don’t read them. :D

  39. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >Know what Ms. Goodwin’s book was about, in general. Just the book.

    By “just the book,” do you mean that I’m not supposed to talk about Goodwin’s plagiarism scandal?

    Goodwin’s book is a fan-girl tribute to a highly romanticized image of Frankie and Eleanor, with a typically leftist non-critical view of Raw Deal collectivism and it’s horrific legacy, and more emotion than reality in her descriptions of FDR’s competence, effectiveness, overall leadership ability, and successes. (See, for example, her laughable overstatements of the Roosevelt administrations supposed “advances” in racial justice.) She seems to buy deeply into the wistful and nostalgic myth of FDR’s greatness that is held by many in the general public who don’t know any better.

    I could give you a longer review, but that would probably just bore everybody so, in a nutshell, it’s just pop history. Don’t waste your money.

  40. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    I’d also be careful with anything written by Stephen Ambrose as well. You’re better off going to the books that he plagiarized from.

  41. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    Tsubaki Shijuro,

    Never brought up the plagarism charge, now did I? And I have heard about it. Never looked into the history of it, though. So, can’t comment on it.

    As for the book, sorry, already bought it. :P

    So, it’s a fan-girl tribute to a romantic look at FDR’s record during the war year? Let’s say what you are saying is true, do you know of a book or books that gives a more critical look, even-handed look at FDR’s administration. And, I do mean that doesn’t have an axe to grind. That shows both the good as well as the bad.

    And, being a black American I already know that race relations during the 30s and 40s were moving at the speed of molasses, as in slowly if at all, so, I took that with a very big grain of salt.

  42. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    Tsubaki Shijuro,

    I’d also be careful with anything written by Stephen Ambrose as well. You’re better off going to the books that he plagiarized from.

    Newsflash. I don’t read everything that Stephen Ambrose has written. The books of his that I have read was the Eisenhower bio, Band of Brothers, D-Day invasion, Ike’s Spies and Citizen Soldiers. Haven’t touch any of his other books. Also, I tend to goes through the bibliography of the books I read to see if there are any other books that I want to look at. :p

    Let’s see, I have also read Ike’s Crusade in Europe, Patton’s War as I Knew It, Churchill’s The Second World War, Gordon A. Harrison’s Cross Channel Attack, Anthony Clay Brown’s Bodyguard of Lies, Russell F. Weigley’s Eisenhower’s Lieutenants, Cornelius Ryan’s The Longest Day, L. F. Ellis’ 2 Volumes Victory in the West (The British version of the American Green Book) and Geoffrey Perret’s There’s A War to Be Won: The United States Army in World War II, among others. See, I read more than just Ambrose.

  43. Emperor Misha I Comment by Emperor Misha I

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    But didn’t he bring us out of the depression?

    Adolf Hitler brought Germany out of the depression. And your point?

    Even accepting for the sake of argument that the NuSocialist Deal did bring about something that wouldn’t have occurred naturally otherwise (and I’m not quite prepared to concede that point, ups and downs are a fact of life), he still set us up for bankruptcy with his socialist idiocy.

    It’s like saving your house by getting a new mortgage that you know you can’t pay for two years from now. Or, as we like to say it in my native country: “Pissing in your pants to keep warm in a blizzard.” It’ll do the trick right now, but just wait until your pants freeze solid.

    The one thing that I WILL give FDR unreserved credit for was his principled, tough stance against Nazism and Tojo Imperialism. It took one heck of a lot of guts to stick to that a mere 20 years after the First World War (the war to “end all wars.”)

    Granted, I have a very personal angle when it comes to his commitment to not watching the war from the sidelines since I’d be speaking German if he hadn’t had that, but I have to tip my hat to him for seeing that threat coming from miles away when it would have been so much more politically expedient for him to play along with the isolationists.

    Which is why I try to mute my criticism of his domestic policies that were, to put it mildly, idiotic.

  44. Tsubaki Shijuro Comment by Tsubaki Shijuro

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    >Never brought up the plagarism charge, now did I?

    No, I just thought that’s what you meant, since it’s a significant episode (well, series of episodes) in Goodwin’s less than illustrious career. Lifting entire paragraph’s without citation is nothing less than theft.

    >Never looked into the history of it, though. So, can’t comment on it.

    It’s all rather unfortunate, since she’s one more example of sloppy/dishonest scholarship, and gives people one more reason to not believe scholars. (I already have enough to explain when people find out I’m part of the wacky world of academia without being associated with thieves and liars!)

    >As for the book, sorry, already bought it.

    Don’t worry. You can probably get somebody to take it off your hands on e-Bay or Amazon Marketplace. :)

    >So, it’s a fan-girl tribute to a romantic look at FDR’s record during the war year?

    Yep. I could almost hear her squeal in delight a few times.

    >do you know of a book or books that gives a more critical look, even-handed look at FDR’s administration. And, I do mean that doesn’t have an axe to grind. That shows both the good as well as the bad.

    Hmmmm. For the general reader, Kenneth Davis’ series is okay, though his approval for Roosevelt’s policies does show through a bit too much. It’s written in a style that’s a bit more casual than Goodwin’s book, but it doesn’t have any squealing. :)

    For realistic (non-fanboy/fangirl) analysis of FDR’s policies, etc., you might want to read John Flynn’s The Roosevelt Myth, and Robert Nisbet’s Roosevelt and Stalin. (Though, I think Nisbet is a bit too forgiving of Roosevelt’s New Deal schemes. The liberal Harry Barnes is actually much harsher in his criticism.)

    >I don’t read everything that Stephen Ambrose has written.

    Oh, I wasn’t implying that you did. It’s merely that he was on your list, and his work is, well, let’s just say “a bit suspect,” so I suggested caution. He did some good work, certainly, but he was often sloppy both in his research and in his writing, and he had a tendency to, uh, “forget” to cite sources.

    >I tend to goes through the bibliography of the books I read to see if there are any other books that I want to look at.

    That’s a good idea. I actually do that first, since a good bibliography is often a sign of good research, or at least a good starting point (since poor analysis can ruin it). A bad bibliography almost always results in flawed research.

  45. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    No, I just thought that’s what you meant, since it’s a significant episode (well, series of episodes) in Goodwin’s less than illustrious career. Lifting entire paragraph’s without citation is nothing less than theft.

    If you meant my original comment, I mean you commenting on FDR and ER, not Ms. Goodwin. To be honest, that’s the only book by Goodwin that I’d read, and I’d only read it last year after owning it for about 10 years. Because of the number of books I’d bought over the years, it’d taken me years just to get to some of them.

    It’s all rather unfortunate, since she’s one more example of sloppy/dishonest scholarship, and gives people one more reason to not believe scholars. (I already have enough to explain when people find out I’m part of the wacky world of academia without being associated with thieves and liars!)

    Any other examples? And bad research makes people look bad, period.

    Don’t worry. You can probably get somebody to take it off your hands on e-Bay or Amazon Marketplace.

    Nah, I’m just not the type to get rid of a book, unless I have no choice.

    Yep. I could almost hear her squeal in delight a few times.

    Is that a fact? (And no, not being sarcastic.)

    Hmmmm. For the general reader, Kenneth Davis’ series is okay, though his approval for Roosevelt’s policies does show through a bit too much. It’s written in a style that’s a bit more casual than Goodwin’s book, but it doesn’t have any squealing.

    Davis’ series? Hmmm, guess I should go look them up when I free up room on my schedule.

    For realistic (non-fanboy/fangirl) analysis of FDR’s policies, etc., you might want to read John Flynn’s The Roosevelt Myth, and Robert Nisbet’s Roosevelt and Stalin. (Though, I think Nisbet is a bit too forgiving of Roosevelt’s New Deal schemes. The liberal Harry Barnes is actually much harsher in his criticism.)

    If I can find either book, I’ll give them a look.

    Oh, I wasn’t implying that you did. It’s merely that he was on your list, and his work is, well, let’s just say “a bit suspect,” so I suggested caution. He did some good work, certainly, but he was often sloppy both in his research and in his writing, and he had a tendency to, uh, “forget” to cite sources.

    Well, I was telling PC which books I’d thought would help her with pre-1960s US History. Those that I’d put down are either in or were a part of my book collection. (The Lighting Joe and Churchill memoirs I, sadly, got rid of before my move. I really hate getting rid of books.) I’d only can recall him being called on the carpet for one book. I just don’t recall which one it was since the only other book by him I have is The Victors and I haven’t read it yet. Care to refresh my memory on which book it was, thanks?

    That’s a good idea. I actually do that first, since a good bibliography is often a sign of good research, or at least a good starting point (since poor analysis can ruin it). A bad bibliography almost always results in flawed research.

    That’s how I’d always done it. I not only look through the bibliography, but also through the footnotes to see if there’s anything of interest that the author’s mention that I might want to look at next or in the future. I tend to see if I can find another two sources that can confirm the first source I’d read. But, I guess that comes from being trained as a historian, a librarian and an archivist.

  46. psychochick Comment by psychochick

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    Leoni
    Did you go to library school? I have several close friends who did.

  47. LC&IB Vulcanrider Comment by LC&IB Vulcanrider

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    PC:

    How do you know those kind of people aren’t flying military planes? There are some liberals in the military, but they tend to hide their views so they don’t get in trouble.

    Are you adjusting the meds again? Since I KNOW you’ve never been military, I still find it amazing you make asinine comments like this. “Get in trouble”? Hell, your political views don’t get you in trouble in the military, they never have. I had a good friend who’d call sign was “Chairman” because of his political leanings. Are there liberals flying jets and humping weapons? Hell yes, and we wouldn’t have it any other way. And guess what? There are Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, shooters, anti-guns, pro- and anti-abortion military members too! Shocked? I thought you would be. Damn, it sounds a lot like well, America! Let me enlighten you about something else, the most educational political discussions I’ve ever had were in the break room or at the club with my, dare I say it, military friends! Remember this, the oath we take at enlistment says we will “support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. Means what it says, and fails to mention shit about martial law.

    Stop using the military as as example in any context without finding out what the hell you’re talking about, some of us old timers are getting sick of it…and you don’t want to see us pissed off, believe me!

  48. Radical Redneck Comment by Radical Redneck

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    But didn’t he bring us out of the depression?

    No president has that kind of power/ability. Putting us into one is another story. The New Deal helped keep growth stagnant and promised a very slow climb out of it. :em98:

    What killed off the Depression mostly was the immediate full employment and full production demanded by WWII. That combined with the patriotism and desperation that made everyone take their money out of their matresses and keep funding it by buying war bonds at mediocre interest. Then you add in the post-War spending boom that naturally followed four years of sacrifice. :em94:

    Had there been no war the economy would have crawled like a snail until a tax reforming anti-socialist came along.

  49. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    What does George Bush Hate? Black People
    What is his favourite way to harrass them? Hurricanes
    What is Jamaica full of: Black People

    I rest my case.

  50. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Sir Christopher,

    Don’t you think it peculiar that a man as “dumb” as Bush is has been brilliant enough to figure out a way to control the weather to rid the world of black people?

    If he had JUST signed the Kyoto accords….

  51. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    indeed i do…Skyechild

    and how about the looting and slow government response to the disaster area in Peru? Is Bush doing consulting work in S.A.?

  52. LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R. Comment by LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R.

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    Well, Rove resigned, so Bush obviously can’t function now. Because we all know that it was RoveCheneyHalliburton who was calling the shots in the WH.

  53. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    CheneyWhiterovehouseBurton

  54. LC MoMinuteMan Comment by LC MoMinuteMan

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    Guido, I clicked on the “Cold Camp” link, didn’t work, redacted everything to the left of the “WWW”, and was up reading last night ’til my eyes crossed. Just finished the last 40-odd pages a few minutes ago.

    LOVED IT!!! :em34:

    Combination of warning of things that could be, and notice of the way things are, and history lesson all rolled into one.

    If “Lights Out” is as good, I expect another late night.

  55. Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P. Comment by Sir Guido Cabrone, LC, M.o.P.

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    If “Lights Out” is as good, I expect another late night.

    It is. That was how I was when they were sent to me. I got nothing done for three days. (Other than going to work, that is. If I ever buy a modern PDA, those two book will be why…)

    Yeah, I don’t know why the links did that.

    Boss? Deej?

    Someone linked those to me a few months back. I considered spending the money on paper to print them out. And I am notorious cheapskate… :em95:

  56. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    Chavez: U.S. Trying to Turn Venezuela’s Military Against Him

  57. Sir Christopher Comment by Sir Christopher

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    Hundreds of Saudi camels die from mystery ailment

    torn colons?

  58. Unregistered Comment by leoni2, LC

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    PC,

    Did you go to library school? I have several close friends who did.

    Yes. At Drexel University. MLS. Also took one half of the Archives course being offered at Temple U.