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Since His Imperial Majesty likes rambling on and on about fake, skewed polls and what they’re intended to achieve by the ones publishing them, why not explain ourself a bit and, in the process, point out at least one possible unintended consequence of the Obamamedia trying to game the system in this fashion?
Yes, we know, you’re probably already a-twitter with excitement faced with the prospect of yet another endless stream of consciousness published by His Imperial Majesty, but try to contain yourselves…
First of all, the “influence turnout by massaging the numbers” approach is a two-edged sword. Why is this? Because of the theory behind it. The goal is, we should point out, NOT to make dyed-in-the-wool, hardcore conservatives stay at home on election day. That’s simply not possible. People like you and ourself are going to turn out and vote no matter what. We’re the hardcore “exercise your right no matter what” zealots who understand that our right to vote is one of the most important, if not THE most important right that we have. We also understand that if we fail to exercise that right, then we automatically forfeit our right to bitch about the result.
We’re not the target.
The target is the group of voters who definitely lean in one direction, in this case Palin/Whassisface?, but aren’t particularly committed. In real life terms, they’re the ones who will definitely go vote if the race seems to be close, but if it’s a foregone conclusion then, “oh well, why bother? It’s not all that important and, at any rate, we’re busy at work these days and all of that absentee voting hassle is really too much if my vote isn’t going to make a difference anyway.”
On our side, that demographic would mainly be blue-collar and lower middle class voters who are quite busy making a living and, let’s face it, voting does mean taking time out from other chores in a day that is already too short to go stand in line. If you’ve become convinced that the outcome is pre-ordained and that your vote isn’t going to make a lick of difference, then why cram another obligation into an already stuffed schedule?
So what’s the silver lining? The silver lining is that the other side has a demographic like that too. More importantly, part of that demographic is the notoriously fickle “youth vote” that the Democrats keep trumpeting every election season, yet we haven’t seen them actually show up to vote yet.
They, being young and generally less obsessed with issues of sweeping, national import than with having a good time, are extremely vulnerable to the “why bother?” factor. Only in their case, it’s not because of demoralization, it’s because of overconfidence. Why take time out from such vital pastimes as playing WoW, banging your girlfriend or huffing on your bong if it’s already “in the can?”
Whether the Obamamedia’s strategy will backfire more than it will achieve remains to be seen, but it’s important to remember that there is a flip side to that coin as well.
Bottom line: It comes down the “leaners.” If you know anybody who fits in that category, people who really, generally do like Palin/Whassisface? better than the ObaMarx but aren’t truly committed to the whole thing, then it is vitally important that you make them understand that their votes, no matter what the polls say, really DO count. If ObaMarx wins, then those who didn’t vote will have no right to complain about the consequences. Also remind them that we have men and women overseas fighting and dying for their right to cast that vote.
It’s really not that much to ask that they exercise that right to show their appreciation for their sacrifices, even if it all seems “hopeless” to them at this point.
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I noticed that with a lot of people of my generation. For example, my sister isn’t interested in much more than work, going on MySpace, watching Cartoon Network, listening to crappy whiny white-boy music, and hanging out with people that aren’t even out of high school yet. I’m convinced that she was adopted. :em41: :em98:
October 26th, 2008 at 4:32 PMUsing
Why do you think the Dems are massively pushing EARLY voting? I mean, those bong-head youngsters couldn’t possibly commit to election day. That’s like, making a plan, and making a plan is too much effort.
Hence, the early vote.
I hope the Republicans are emphasizing the “early vote” as much as the Dems, but I doubt it.
I have a question for everyone: Where is Barrack Obama?
Supposedly he flew to Hawaii to see granny, but there hasn’t been a SINGLE reporter covering his trip. Wouldn’t some reporter out there want to get the “scoop” on grandma, or at least get a photo of her? Is she in the hospital? At home? Isn’t ANYONE covering this little “trip”???
Or is he down at the courthouse trying to find that damned birth certificate?
October 26th, 2008 at 4:46 PMUsing
Let em keep cooking those numbers. They’ll just have to choke on em after the election.
October 26th, 2008 at 4:54 PMUsing
And even though I’ve already voted, I’m not seeing any silver linings, Misha.
With massive fraud, illegal contributions, and who knows WHAT else the DemoNazis have pulled, I don’t know how McCain has a chance!
And another thing: How is it that every appearance that Obamessiah makes has 100,000 attendees????
I was in St. Louis last spring, and I don’t know where 100,000 folks could congregate.
Did the Messiah appear in a stadium that I don’t know about?
The exaggeration of the in-bed media is so false it’s almost comical.
October 26th, 2008 at 4:54 PMHmmmm. I wonder why I seem to be losing my sense of humor….
Using
But Mrs. Mitt, Obama will hire his own attorney general once he’s elected, and nothing will happen.
October 26th, 2008 at 4:56 PMUsing
Does anyone have some FUNNY news?
October 26th, 2008 at 4:57 PMThis whole thing is making me depressed.
Although, I must say I never tire of seeing Sarah Palin speak.
She was on this morning, and I was temporarily happy
Using
You are spot on Misha. Here are the numbers I crunched for the last two fake polls that claimed Obama had double digit leads nationally:
http://www.realclear.....a-225.html
Newsweek 10/22 - 10/23 882 LV 4.0 53 41 Obama +12
http://www.newsweek.com/id/165570?tid=relatedcl
1,024 sample
256 republicans
368 dems
A difference of:
368 - 256 = 112
624 total from both parties
What % is 112 of 624?
624 x 18% = 112.32
18% more Democrats than Republicans
Guess what? The CBS News poll was EVEN worse:
http://www.cbsnews.c.....litics.pdf
UNWEIGHTED WEIGHTED
Total Respondents 1152
Total Registered voters 1046 1010
Registered voters – Republicans 326 287
Registered voters – Democrats 391 411
Registered voters – Independents 329 312
*Effective Likely Voters 771
Republicans unweighted: 326
Dem’s unweighted: 391
A difference of: 65
Total from both parties unweighted: 717
What % is 65 of 717?
717 x .9% = 64.53
9% more Dem’s than Republicans in the UNWEIGHTED sample
Republicans weighted: 287
Democrats weighted: 411
A difference of: 124
Total from both parties weighted: 535
What % is 124 of 535?
535 x 23% = 123.05
23% more Dem’s than Republicans in the WEIGHTED sample
That’s right. CBS News actually offered a poll to the public claiming a 13 point lead for Obama and they had to poll 23% more Democrats than Republicans to get to that number.
October 26th, 2008 at 5:29 PMUsing
The “why bother voting” crowd is exactly why the
DonksCommunists in Ohio have been pushing the patently illegal “immediate voting without checking eligibility” scam— They want to make sure that those who are too lazy, stupid and/or ineligible to vote get their illegal votes counted BEFORE election day, thereby giving them the excuse of saying “You can’t take away their votes, even if they’re illegal!”Why can’t they just bring on their damned Revolución already?
October 26th, 2008 at 6:03 PM:em96: :em96:
Using
It will be seen on the night. Got my stuff worked a bit over the last few days, haven’t totally lost my touch.
October 26th, 2008 at 6:39 PMUsing
Yeah, I’m busy, but I vote on Election Day, unless my Mom died or something as drastic. I knew it was coming and I’ve planned weeks ahead to be there. It’s a chore, but more important that picking up the dog poop in the backyard.
I’ve never understood this forced to stand in line to vote thing. I think the longest it has ever taken me to vote is 20 minutes…from walking in the door to getting back in my car. I have my sample ballot marked and I just match up the numbers, making sure the titles are the same. and “if” there is a question of what my decision was. I have a reference.
I think the Obambi campaign is pushing the vote early thing because they fear that last minute gaff that will blow the lid off (oops, too late, your votes already in).
After the fact, when the fraud is exposed, the DNC will pay the fines and go “So what you going to do about it?”
October 26th, 2008 at 6:42 PMUsing
THAT’s my point, Oilman.
Everything is planned out so carefully by these Marxists that Americans aren’t going to know what hit them once the thieves take office.
They make Richard Nixon look like a girl Scout.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:11 PMUsing
I’ve been trying to formulate a response here.
Is standing in line for awhile worse than standing in line for a bowl of empty soup and chunk of stale bread? Do people really value the franchise, that which emulates our liberty, so lightly. I know, voter turnout sucks, but what is the history of people actually participating in self government, or any government at all?
I’m with the feller above, never had to wait in an interminable queue to cast my vote (disclaimer: for the last twenty I have worked for local government so I get the day off), nor would I feel inconvenienced if it took some time to exercise my right to participate in governing when the alternative, especially now, was so downright scary.
As for the fraud and other issues, when elections take place in the courts or depend on the courts to police them, I would say the revolution begun 200+ years ago will get cranked back up. Nation of riflemen indeed.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:15 PMUsing
I can’t remember any time I’ve spoken with a young person, or known Obamaphile, that it hasn’t been all about how they’d personally benefit from the Obamaslime’s election. No concept at all, nor any care at all, about how the Country’s future would be affected. No interest at all in taking the time to listen to any one of the myriad of info, any one example of which is enough reason NOT to vote for B. HUSSEIN Obama.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:22 PMIt’s the ME generation all right - concerned with just ONE generation - THEIRS!
Using
Another unintended consequence might turn-out to be the expectations by the Obamaniacs that the Anointed One will win — and will win in a landslide.
If McCain pulls-out a victory, as is possible per a number of internal polls, then this expectation will be dashed — the the great surprise to Obama’s Zombies. The unintended result may be their reaction to the apparent “theft” of the election by the Repubs (ya gotta laugh at the irony here!) — this may be riots, violence and burning in many of our big cities.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:24 PMUsing
And it could very well prove to be our country’s last generation if things do not change. I am coming to believe severely hard times are in order. The govt stuck a shovel in your hand during the depression, you were not given a check. Otherwise starve, I don’t give a shit any more. You try to take my food and such I will shoot you dead. You are violating my rights. Understand this, I owe you nothing. Your rights end where mine begin. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Alpha and omega. These folks are in for a lot of hard knocks. I left home at sixteen, joined the navy at seventeen, supported myself, and sometimes others, ever since. I’ve been called old school. I take it as a compliment. You know, never late to work, sober, absenteeism under one per cent, has to be forced to take medical leave and such. good performance reviews, etc.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:32 PMNobody owes me jack…..even golden chains are still chains.
Using
Let ‘em riot, Kill each other with my blessings. Tantrums can be such unsightly events. Fuck them!
October 26th, 2008 at 7:33 PMUsing
I always have 2 hours to go vote, by law, but have never used them. Some how I always find the time. This year, I work graveyard (5AM quit time), and have to put off my after work beer until 7AM and my voting’s done. (That’s a chore right there :em93: ) I’ll be home by 7:30 and watching the returns by 7:45…applying the necessary anesthesia. :em03: :em03: :em03:
Just talked to a co-worker (My age, mid-50’s) and his only concern was the deduction for his two kids. He’ll get a huge deduction. I pointed out how much we make, and this year it will be great (for him), but next year when the bill comes due, he’ll be considered rich and his taxes will go up and lose more than he “made” this year…and each year after.
Couldn’t grasp that. :em98:
October 26th, 2008 at 7:36 PMUsing
deMontjoie
I’m hoping for a smooth transition, but planning for ugly.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:39 PMUsing
Caveman
I’ve had two sick day in the last 5 years…I’ll admit one was a “mental Health” sick day as my “co-workers” pissed me off so much by not working on a major problem from the day before and just left it for me to fix…I had one….maybe two more beers than I should have. :em93:
Work is getting paid to be there at least trying to do your job. Commitment!
October 26th, 2008 at 7:47 PMUsing
You know, this “it’s a done deal” stuff could backfire on them. I know people who don’t usually vote, who are so scared of Obama and this whole cult of personality Kool-Aid shit that they are going to get off their asses and vote.
Think about that Skippy.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:56 PMUsing
I hope you’re all right in your assumptions.
And I hope that you are all FINALLY going to vote for McCain.
I figured we could live through 4 years of Obama…That is, I thought we could until the Wright issue came up, the Bill Ayers issue came up, the Acorn issue, the attempt to shut down media issue, the attack on Palin issue, the attempt to destroy the plumber issue, and the illegal contributions to Obama issue.
Oh, and to top it all off, the people who used to call themselves “journalists” ignoring and/or ENCOURAGING it all!!
I have NEVER seen anything like this in my lifetime.
I agree with Senator McCain: We have to FIGHT for this country.
October 26th, 2008 at 8:18 PMAnd I hope more citizens do.
I AM JOE.
Using
The Bookworm Room has put together a list of contact addresses for the Los Angeles Times’ advertisers and owners, to ask them to demand that the Times release the video of Barack Obama being praised by former PLO spokesman Rashid Khalidi at a party attended by Obama, radical Palestinian activists, and Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn: Contact information for companies that advertise in the LA Times.
http://www.bookwormr.....-la-times/
October 26th, 2008 at 8:40 PMUsing
Oh I so dearly hope so.
October 26th, 2008 at 8:42 PMUsing
I was going to from the time of the nominations. I wasn’t going to like it, but Obama scares the hell outa me. Palin just made it a little less bitter to swallow.
I AM JOE too. I make between 40 and 100K, and that’s the “rich” group he’ll have to go after next to pay for his programs.
Everybody had better set their budget at about 28K next year, so you can be and afford things like “the middle class”.
October 26th, 2008 at 8:44 PMUsing
Well, well, seems to me I had best spend all my money on things like, say guns and ammo? Spent a good chunk of today cleaning guns, running generators, grocery shopping and troubleshooting. I have no intention of freaking out should Obama prevail. I spent a great deal of time pondering such things, made my preparations for any eventuality I can deal with. Now I sit, having voted, for I do know this… Should the Obamanauts win, they are going to be one sorely disappointed bunch of motherfuckers real soon. Yes, they will seek to blame us. Let them. It is the results that matter……..I am remaining quiet, listening a great deal to those around me.
October 26th, 2008 at 8:51 PMUsing
Good evening one and all.
October 26th, 2008 at 8:51 PMHoweveer it ends, we will suffer because our infantile electorate believes what is not true. The freshest turd on the pollpile has been placed by the jealous low rent populists residing in and under their TV trays who have their 2 and 1/2 brain cells aching over Sarah’s wardrobe. After our discussions at table and consultations with some friends in low places, we can and should discard conventioinal wisdom and focus on emotional convention, (e.g.) the predispositions of the grey amorphous mass whose polity shifts on how they “feel”when they get out of bed on election day. Their sentiments not being remotely like ours indicates unfavorable results. Given that confidence is poor for the short term, we should change objectives. Do all that can be done to stop the Demoncrats from gaining cloture in the Senate. Our best hope is ability to filibuster judicial nominations by borking some libs and see how the f*** they like it. The economic situation could actually bode well as the Obamonster, with less knowledge than is required to run a fever will be sniped at by his own party to save them and their constituents from themselves by raising taxes on lower earnings. Go figure. Those libs demanding handouts are expecting one colossal fix that won’t be forthcoming. So if there are to be riots in major cities, the lefties will throw the roll. Then duck. It appears we are in for three hard years at least. Do consider that the “change” the libs want will be severely limited by the condition of our nations Exchequerate with or without a slimy Secretary of Goldman Sucks.
The only things that revived economic growth were tax cuts and conservative governance. Aside from this ado, look to history. Our founders gained their liberty from the British Crown by civil dissobedience. Quote for the day: “The tighter you squeeze, the more slips through your fingers.”
Using
hamburglar sez:
Big corporations loathe controvery. That’s how to get their attention. Express regret that [the advertisers] would want to associate themselves with a publication that is sure to alienate half the population.
Rather than threathen the advertiser, helpfully suggest that they might do better spending their scarce advertising budget in a less biased publication — one that respects the views of all.
October 26th, 2008 at 9:01 PMUsing
I’ll be voting Palin/whassisfuck on Tuesday AM, after I get off of work. I’ll then go to work on Tuesday evening and follow the results all night. Wednesday morning I can decide if I will have to drink heavily to be able to sleep soundly.
October 26th, 2008 at 9:17 PMLots of McCain/Palin signs in yards around here. It seems there are more Obama stickers on cars and more McCain/Palin signs in yards (funny, no Biden signs or stickers). Should be an interesting day…in the Chinese sense of the word.
And then we can start hammering the RNC for more conservative candidates instead of RINO’s.
Let me add one more thing. Congressional races are ESSENTIAL this cycle. We MUST regain a majority in the Senate and in the House, if for no other reason than to block the asshattery. McCain is more RINO than conservative in my opinion, so even when (note I say when) he wins we need solid conservatives in Congress to keep him on the straight and narrow. Ditto for the next Congressional election cycle in two more years.
Using
L.A was a two paper town while I grew up. They drove the Examiner out of business by undercutting then on ad rates, etc. (Those dastardly capitalist’s)
Then they laid low for a few years before they just gave up on hiding being left. They were safe here and they’ve just gotten worse over the years.
You can write them, but the LA Times won’t hear you. They won’t admit defeat until bankruptcy, and even then they’ll pull an Amtrak and say there can’t be NO paper in a major city, regardless of whether the populace supports it or not. (There’s that 750 B floating around to “make sure the economy doesn’t collape)
October 26th, 2008 at 9:18 PMUsing
SoCalOilMan, LC sez:
Which is why I suggest contacting the Advertisers. Hit em where it hurts!!!!!
October 26th, 2008 at 9:22 PMUsing
Won’t make a damn here other than I tried , but that along with Prop 8 and other things that I need to dealt with, because my elected officials won’t, I have to vote. They won’t commit and just wait for the propositi0ons to roll in.
After that it’s the spin of “they wanted it…they didn’t want it” then to the court challenges that say it’s no good because the legal language wasn’t “correct”. Wash, rinse, repeat.
The G-d damn reps we have are all lawyers, and they can’t write a law. :em02: :em12: :em38: :em03: :em96:
October 26th, 2008 at 9:28 PMUsing
One paper town, where you gonna get all those inserts for this weeks sale?
October 26th, 2008 at 9:29 PMUsing
In a 2001 interview on Chicago Public Radio, Barack Obama came out strongly in favor of the “redistribution of wealth.” That’s a direct quote from Obama himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck
October 26th, 2008 at 9:35 PMUsing
deMontjoie sez:
And this would be a problem because…? It is to laugh!
LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove sez:
nerbygirl sez:
Indeed.
LC Darth Scoundrel, Dark Lord of the Refuge sez:
And an even bigger INDEED! POTUS isn’t all of it. Without Congress behind them, they are but the face, not the heart, of the nation. What could we have done had Ronaldus Maximus had a solid conservative Congress? What didn’t he get done because of the commugress we had at the time?
October 26th, 2008 at 9:56 PMUsing
We are here now. Whatever happens is because of our stand now. I do not look forward to riots or whatever. I’ve taken my side and I will abide by a fair election, won’t be happy and I’ll laugh at every new law to take our freedoms away, telling them they said it wouldn’t happen, up til the point of no more buying bullets.
Then I hope I’ve stockpiled enough.
October 26th, 2008 at 10:13 PMUsing
Oilman:
I lived in Hollywood for five years, and I’m back in the Midwest. I understand your arguments but NO ONE from the midwest or any other Red state in the country understands what the mind-set it in the “coast’ cities.
Keep trying, my friend. I’m in the Midwest trying to convince folks that Obama will cause them less freedom, but they don’t want to hear it.
We ARE here and now, and conservatives have to deal with it by standing up to this Socialist movement that is close to being REAL.
Drop your “conservative” agenda and vote for McCain/Palin.
October 26th, 2008 at 11:12 PMIt’s the only chance that we have to at least avoid the Marxist leader and regroup.
Using
A friend of mine (Krondax) has a friend who is going to vote obama because she is hoping that he will not be sent to Iraq if obama wins.
Krondax and I both laughed at that idea.
October 26th, 2008 at 11:14 PMUsing
As well you should. She won’t be going to Iraq, it’ll be Syria and Iran. I’ll assume this conversation occurred before this weekend , or she hasn’t caught up on the news from the ME.
It”ll be another example of a Dhimmicrat going nuclear. The only party to use nukes.
Could have been dealt with long ago, but if we just talk a little longer….. :em38:
October 26th, 2008 at 11:30 PMUsing
i realize not everyone here’s a big McCain fan to say the least, but if THIS doesn’t scare the feces out of your rectum like a ducati on jet rocket fuel, and make you vote for McCain to keep this marxist antichrist out of office, i don’t know what would…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck
(the Obuminist elaborates his opinions on the Warren Court [not radical enough], wealth distribution [how to do it], race relations, etc., in a public radio interview as a state senator)
this is the scariest shit EVER. a total game changer.
October 26th, 2008 at 11:47 PMUsing
Nerbygirl
I guess you’ve missed the picture of him walking around the old neighborhood in jeans and sunglasses.
——————
Nobody I’ve talked to is like that, but they’re all older. They are more concerned with a perception of saving the country from the current leadership.
It’s just a statement of the other side–not an indication that I will be arguing about the election.
(Hello to my friends. Hope you’re all well, aside from election and economy anxieties, and world crisis issues. Oh well. Hope you’re okay, at least.)
October 27th, 2008 at 12:15 AMUsing
Hey PC, I’ve missed you around her lately. Might be my schedule. but aside from election and economy anxieties, and world crisis issues, I’m still well.
both sides can agree on this. We have the two established parties which basically boil down to getting to the same place, just from opposite ends. So you tell me where we go from here?
Not to argue (I actually had a political argument today with a co-worker that finished on friendly terms :em95: ) How do we make business grow so it can create jobs and bring up the living standards of the poor?
Giving them low interest on houses I couldn’t afford only fucked their credit and dragged the value of my house down (though I’ve lived here for 25 years and will still make an obscene profit when I sell). However I’m sure that the “new administration” will make sure to tax me for buying my house at a decent time and hanging in there, I will be punished simply because I got married and wanted to buy a house in 1984.
War? Ask Joe Biden. He’s guaranteed something to happen 6 months after the inauguration. Are we going to just suck it up, or do we really deal with it?
Talk radio? Let’s get the fairness doctrine going so for every minute of conservative opinion we have another of Dem, Green, Libratatian, Glad, MADD, and don’t forget my party of IFA (Idiots for America), with about 42 minutes of air time per hour that gives each of us about 6 minutes each hour…or one hour per day (who gets the 2 AM slot?).
Ain’t picking on you PC, just overly tired on this whole election, Things like Ayers are a side note now, should have been dealt with a year ago. Same with his racist preacher and where the hell he was born. I can’t think of a reason of why these haven’t been directly dealt with by Obama and that is enough to make me question everything about the man.
October 27th, 2008 at 1:12 AMUsing
SoCal
Thanks. I had been wondering how you were doing. Maybe we could meet in an adjoining city some time? I’d ask you to teach me to shoot, but my spouse would have a cow. There’s supposed to be some rent a gun range in Oxnard.
Houses: we couldn’t buy until 2004. We owe more than it’s worth, but it’s our home, and we aren’t going to walk away from it. nothing exotic–40 some year old 3 bedroom tract home, but to me it’s a castle.
October 27th, 2008 at 1:58 AMUsing
PC
Always glad when you show up. Oxnard, damn that’s next door, but another 40 minutes gets to my territory. Bring your spouse and let him shoot some black powder rifles and find out what a pain it was to shoot those Redcoat’s , Hessian’s…and Reb’s…(Sorry all you Southerners, I’m a Unionist).
I’ve got a .40 pistol, the .45 and .54 black powder, a shotgun and of course the obligatory .22 that anyone can shoot all day for pennies a round. If we work it out right, we could probably drag Draven out also and you’d have lots more to chose from. Whatever the cost to drive to L.A. plus $14 ($7 if it’s a Thursday on my sked) discount for NRA membership and internet coupons.
I bought two cars with the equity in our house so I, in a small way, fell into the trap of having more money than I really had. It was a lesson I learned early, like NO Adjustable Rate Loans…Ever,and don’t borrow against something that ain’t really yours.
I have your tetrodox addie, so if you want to go for a shoot or just get together, let me know. My addie go to blog and it’s somewhere on the right side. :em03:
October 27th, 2008 at 2:43 AMUsing
Well she won’t be going, Krondax will, and his unit assignment is in the NE corner of Iraq.
October 27th, 2008 at 8:57 AMUsing
Many young people have told me they’ll vote for Obama for what they can get from the government! It’s all about them–gimme, gimme. They’re too lazy to read about the issues and are just like the tax-and-spend illluminati liberals, not caring about their country’s future as long as they get what they want! Well, when the well runs dry and they can’t suck anymore from the government, we’ll see if they’re still standing!
October 27th, 2008 at 5:03 PMUsing