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Damnyankee Wants to Refight the War of Northern Aggression
Posted by: Emperor Misha I in Socialist Swine9:13 PM
…because them there unwashed Southerners are just so primitive and so damnably, bloody successful! (h/t LC & IB Sithmonkey)
Want a rematch, you metrosexual, emasculated yankee cuntmuffin? Bring it.
As the regional politics of the automobile bailout controversy demonstrate, the Civil War continues. If the major U.S. automobile companies go under, it will be partly because timely federal aid for them was blocked by members of Congress like Tennessee Senator Bob Corker, whose states have created their own counter-Detroit in the form of Japanese, Korean, and German transplant factories. The South will have risen by bringing down the North. Jefferson Davis will have had his revenge.
Mheh. And wouldn’t that be just too durn precious for words, y’all?
It’s all the South’s fault. Which is, of course, utter poppy-cock, as this poll shows. According to that, just about everybody, including nearly half of Democrats, oppose the bailout reward of bad behavior with the money of the rest of us.
But never let facts get between a liberal and his psychotic episodes.
The most shocking thing about the alliance between the Southern states and America’s friendly but earnest economic rivals to destroy America’s most important industry is the fact that so few people find it shocking. Contrast the U.S. with the European Union. The nation-states of the European Union collaborate with each other in order to compete against foreign economic rivals, including the U.S., Japan, and China.
And look just how well that is working out for them! OK, so it isn’t.
By contrast, many states, particularly in the South, collaborate with foreign economic rivals of the U.S. in order to compete against other American states. Any British or French or German leader who proposed collaborating with Japan or the U.S. in order to wipe out industry and destroy jobs in neighboring EU member states would be jeered out of office.
Illustrating perfectly the difference between free nations and nations that are — not so free. In EUnuchistan, they’d rather let everybody starve than let somebody earn a buck more than somebody else.
But it is perfectly acceptable for American states to connive with Asian and European countries in the destruction of industry elsewhere in the U.S.
Maybe if those industries would quit being so hopelessly incompetent to the point where their products were competitive? Horrid concept, we know, but us durn Suth’ners just don’t like being ripped off so fat liberals in the North can feel better about their worthless selves.
Perhaps the lack of outrage over race-to-the-bottom rivalries among U.S. states and regions…
Kindly note how the Southern way of doing business, as in “making actual money”, is considered “racing to the bottom.” And those clowns whine about us calling them damnyankees?
can be attributed to the longevity of this familiar Southern economic strategy.
Much as we’d like to claim that we invented the principle of selling better and cheaper products to make more money, we can’t do so. It’s just that all of you welfare whores up North have forgotten all about it.
In the early 20th century, the Southern states were the first to adopt conscious statewide economic development policies, which then as now meant poaching industries from New England and the Midwest where wages and public spending and regulation were greater.
Did you just admit that public spending and regulation hurts industry and, therefore, the economy?
Why yes, I believe you did! Better be careful about that, you socialist fascist freak.
That’s how the South took the textile industry from New England, before losing it to lower-wage Asia. Now with the help of Nissan, Toyota, and BMW, the South is trying to replace Detroit as the center of U.S. automobile production, using low wages, anti-union laws, and low taxes to benefit from the outsourcing of industry from societies more advanced than the South, like Japan and Germany.
Ohhh ouch! You cut us to the quick there, yessirree you did. We’re “less advanced” than Japan and Germany? Pardon us for saying so, but down here in “primitive” Dixie, being called “less advanced” by a frothing liberal fascist isn’t quite the insult that you might think that it is. Besides, it really doesn’t matter. While you “enlightened” and “advanced” damnyankees are shivering in the cold outside the soup kitchen, us “primitive” Johnny Rebs are sipping cold drinks at the Sheraton.
Oh, and once again you let the mask slip. You just admitted that high taxes and retarded union-imposed high wages ($70/hr for tightening lug nuts?) hurt the economy. No, don’t deny it. You just did.
Now explain this to us, o “enlightened” liberal fascist: Which is better? Being gainfully employed at, say, $25/hr or being formerly employed at $70/hr and currently eating Ramen noodles because nobody is nuts enough to pay that sort of ridiculously over-inflated wage?
If they succeed, the losers will be not only non-Southern regions in the U.S., but the majority of Southerners of all races, whose interest in decent wages, good education, and adequate public services have almost always been sacrificed to the greed of the well-connected few by Southern statehouse gangs.
I guess we have our answer. Us poor employed Southerners have been horribly victimized, sacrificed and abused by being denied the right to be the former employees of bankrupt companies. Oh, we’re interested in “decent wages” and “good education” alright, but $0/hr is neither “decent”, nor does it buy a whole fucking lot of education. As to “adequate public services”, we here in the South have a saying: If it’s important enough for y’all that you want to pay for it, then feel free to find the checkbook. Just keep your everloving hands off of mine.
“A house divided against itself cannot stand.” At each of the defining crises in American history, a major expansion of federal authority was necessary to overcome a division between North and South that threatened the future of the U.S. as a democratic, middle-class nation. The division between slave and free states was overcome by the defeat of the Confederacy and the Reconstruction amendments that abolished slavery and established national citizenship for the first time.
Note that the right to work for whom you want at whatever wage you consider adequate is now equated with slavery.
Freedom is slavery. Up is down. Black is white. We have always been at war with Eurasia!
All Heil the new Liberal Fascist Dictionary!
Today the division is no longer between slave and free states, or agrarian and industrial states, but between two models of industrial society — the Northern model, based on adequate public service funding and taxation and unionization, and the Southern model, based on low-tax, low-service government and low-wage, non-unionized, easily exploited labor.
And employment = exploitation.
Because you’re so much freer if you’re entirely dependent on the government for your daily bowl of gruel.
The result, sooner or later, will be the Southernization of the North and Midwest, as states in the historic middle-class core of the U.S. are forced by economic pressure to emulate the arrangements of Alabama and Mississippi and Texas.
Ask the soon-to-be unemployed auto workers of Detroit if they’d rather be working in Texas than starving in Michigan, why don’t you? Sorry, you already know the answer, as is quite obvious from your howling. They’ll be leaving the Mitten State so fast the dust clouds will block the sunlight for decades.
So explain to us again why the current conditions in the most bankrupt state in the Union are so preferable to living down here? We’re dying to hear. Personally, I believe that transplanting our business model to the North would be a wonderful idea, and I’m sure that the formerly unemployed masses of the North would quite agree with me. Sure, it would hurt die-hard Marxist liberal fascists like yourself because you’d once again been proven wrong about, well, everything, but normal people honestly don’t care about that. We actually don’t care if you live or die, except that we have this notion that life would be better for everybody if you were dead.
And thus we come to the point where the true fascist living inside every liberal can no longer be hidden:
The alternative to the Southernization of the U.S. is the Americanization of the South — a process that was not completed by Reconstruction and the New Deal and the Civil Rights era, which can be thought of as the Second Reconstruction. The non-Southern states, through their representatives in Congress and the executive branch, and with the help of enlightened Southerners, need to use the power of the federal government to put a stop to the Southern conservative race-to-the-bottom strategy once and for all.
Of course! The only way to fix this “problem” of the South being so much richer and more competitive than the North is to force them to do what we want them to do.
You whip “the power of the federal government” out to force us into submission ONE MORE FUCKING TIME, damnyankee, and I promise you, I promise you that it’ll be the last fucking mistake you’ll EVER make, because this time we’re going to whup your asses so hard you’ll be spitting feces for a month.
You seem to forget, which is rather surprising since you yourself pointed it out, that one of the main reasons if not the main reason for the North’s victory in the last dust-up, superior industry, has been moving south as fast as it can for quite a little while now.
You also seem to forget which part of the country the Union counts on for the majority of its military might.
And, of course, you completely forget that it’s highly unlikely that the huge masses of discontented, abused victims of endless government corruption and union tyranny who live in the North today would flock underneath the banner of idiots promising to spread the plague of socialism to the rest of the country.
But it’s quite telling, and completely and utterly unsurprising, that the only answer a liberal fascist has when free people refuse to inhale his bromides and follow his demands is brute, naked force.
You liberal socialists learned very well from your ideological brethren: Marx, Hitler, Stalin et al. You learned very well indeed.
Except for one “minor” lesson: You always tend to lose and end up dead as a result.
Which can’t come quickly enough, if you ask me. I’d be happy to do what I can to expedite it.
Thatisall.
Entries (RSS)
We know JUST what to do this time.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:17 PMUsing
Don’t these clowns read what they are writing when they put pen to paper?
or do these words just spill out of empty skulls?
MISHA
Save me about 5-10 acres of land, I gotta get out of the north, and I live way too close to Detroit, I can almost smell it.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:27 PMUsing
LC ORWN sez:
We’ve got plenty of land, my brother, and we’re more than happy to sell it to good folk like you. We win, the North loses. Win-win all around.
Y’all come on down, y’hear? I’m dead serious. We need all the sane people we can get.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:32 PMUsing
Someone needs to get a 40 year old history book. The carpetbaggers brought their hazardous mills to the South to exploit the newly freed and the people that they stole land from.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:38 PMThe cost of living is lower in the South, which means that 25% of a Detroit paycheck lets a family of four live better than a single Detroiter.
Using
Having lived in “South” America my whole life, I can gladly extend my invitation to “North” America to join Canada if they don’t like it here.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Y’all don’t come back now, ya’ hear…
damnfuckinyankees…
December 18th, 2008 at 9:49 PMUsing
Emperor Misha I sez:
We need to win the demographic/geographic battle with the “blue”
statescities. A brain and character drain if you will. When the showdown comes, we have the intelligence, the competence, the land and the spine!!“The cowards never started, and the weak died on the way.” Robert A. Heinlein
I struck ’states’ above and entered “cities’ because it is the megalopolis that often dominates and characterizes, unfairly, the rest of the good people of a state. Here in Missouri, St. Louis and Kansas City more often than not swing the votes effectively disenfranchising the rest of us. And you know who controls ‘em, and the types of voters they control……. from the
universitiesand mediapropaganda mills to the dependent masses. Most of those in big cities are dependent and nearly helpless in a crisis absent government control and aid.Get out now.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:57 PMUsing
And I’d like to remind this goosestepping fucktard that it ain’t just the South!!!
It’s much of the Mid West and West as well. Even rural California, Oregon and Washington are nothing like the major cities which oppress them and taint their good character. Backwoods Maine and Pennsylvania etc? Same deal. There’s Chicago… and then there’s the real Illinois, somewhat further South.
These elitist bastards live in an echo chamber wrapped in a cocoon surrounded by concertina wire. They have no idea what the rest of ‘flyover’ country thinks… or what we’re capable of.
Good luck living on hot air, dickweed!!
December 18th, 2008 at 10:14 PMUsing
Having lived in “South” America my whole life, I can gladly extend my invitation to “North” America to join Canada if they don’t like it here.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Y’all don’t come back now, ya’ hear…
damnfuckinyankees…
Fucking Right and Cali and join fucking Mexico. Seeya motherfuckers
December 18th, 2008 at 10:19 PMUsing
Of COURSE individual states compete against one another! Doesn’t this asshat realize that we are a constitutional republic — a collection of sovereign states,each free to make its own laws and pursue it’s own destiny, except where limited by the Constitution?
Sorry, that was a stupid question. Liberals think this is a single, unified country governed solely by the edicts handed down from Washington, D.C. They also think the states are little more than annoyances, rather than sovereign entities.
I can’t decide whether this idiot is really that arrogant regarding the powers of the sovereign sates, or is merely another victim of the piss-poor level of civics education in our public schools.
Steve
December 18th, 2008 at 10:21 PMUsing
LC FORGER - Imperial Blacksmith sez:
I hope you aren’t extending this to all of us Northerners, Forger. I really don’t think we need to be fighting the war all over again.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:25 PMUsing
Thank G-d I got out of
December 18th, 2008 at 10:30 PMMichiganSouthern Canuckistan when I did. Not only is Texas less afflicted with worthless idiots like the guy who wrote this piece of crap, but it’s warmer (and I’m not just talking about the weather… people here are warmer, too). Maybe this dumbass has just had more than his share of winter winds blow through the empty space between his ears. There’s no way that someone who’s brain was actually functioning could have written such utterly nonsensical, mindless crap.Using
It would help if congress would pull it’s head out of it’s ass and recognize that the tax breaks and incentives they have given to foreigners equal or exceed the total amount of loans they need to give OUR fucking auto companies to stay in the game…..fucking asshole republicans are still doing that knee jerk “if it’s a Dem proposal it gotta be bad” bullshit. Fucking idiots!
December 18th, 2008 at 10:30 PMUsing
Emperor Misha I sez:
hmmmmm…..right now in Kirkland, Washington it’s 25 degrees with an inch and a half of snow and the entire friggin STATE is paralyzed.
So Texas don’t sound bad at all……
maybe a little beach front on South Padre……..
yeah, that’s the ticket :em69:
December 18th, 2008 at 10:36 PMUsing
MrSpkr @:
MrSpkr sez:
And Sovereign Citizens may I remind? Or once we were.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:41 PMUsing
Jon the Imperial Hunter @:Jon, I have been saying this for years. The metropolitan areas have long ago gone soft in the head. Catering to various and sundry groups to insure elections forces people to say whatever the electorate wants. Big cities never work effectively or efficiently. It is like watching a demolition derby in slow motion and picking a winner is just as unpredictable. The South has always enjoyed a more rural lifestyle and you need to fight to keep your cities from growing the same way Northern cities have grown. I know there are parts of Atlanta that the post office will not deliver mail, so it’s not just a Norhern problem. That said, when the SHTF, starving these socialist rat-bastards out into our turf and killing them for what they have done to this great nation is the only predictable and preferable way to deal with them. :em96:
December 18th, 2008 at 10:41 PMUsing
Should Bo and Luke Duke trade in their Dodge Charger for a foreign model?
Given the South’s openness with Japanese and German manufacturers, I’m surprised the author isn’t invoking WWII allusions…
December 18th, 2008 at 10:56 PMUsing
The yankees didn’t give a :em72: about southern slaves until the planters began shipping raw cotton to Lancashire mills in British bottoms, thereby cutting out the shipping magnates from Baltimore to Boston. Salavery only became an issue when they no longer collected their cut.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:10 PMThe elitist snotty “intellectual” c.u.n.t. who wrote this exhibits true desparation. All life on this planet is based on and subjected to competition. Beyond the age of 6, life IS competition. Being an elitist, he/she desires to impose the social structure dominated by his/her kind; the anthill. And there is no human being on this earth that the intellectual, refined, erudite, sophistocated, most astute; with his/her sandbox mentality to match any economically illiterate union slug, hates and despises more than a self made man who becomes successful to the point of accumulating enough wealth and concentrating enough power to become a law unto himself without jumping through any of the “liberal” hoops. That’s the Real American Dream.
The arena of life is a given. The anthill imposes serfdom. And the market gives us the freedom not to purchase the publication employing this pharisee. The best place for it is under the tail of a buzzard with diarhea.
That is all.
Using
Jon the Imperial Hunter @:
To quote the great G. Gordon Liddy: “when I was a kid, this was a free country.”
Steve
December 18th, 2008 at 11:11 PMUsing
I am not even sure this thing was not meant as satire. It just seems like it is I am not sure why…..
December 18th, 2008 at 11:32 PMOh yes I know why. NO ONE could be this out of touch with the real world….Then agian we fund Black Studies, Womens Studies, etc. so we can’t afford to produce enough productive degrees. We are so dead.
So I have to say I agree with a few of you on just shooting the damn starving masses from the cities. It would be more fun than worrying about all of this bullshit.
Using
Holy Shit!
Get thee - all of you - to the SECOND page of that article!
Notice how he keeps saying “Non-Southern” … instead of just “Northern” ?
Guy’s gone completely ’round the bend.
Well, bless his heart.
- MuscleDaddy
December 18th, 2008 at 11:57 PMUsing
I think you’ll find this guy’s worse than a damnyankee; he’s a native-born Texan who was apparently dropped on his head at birth.
Here’s a little of what he has to say about other Texans…
Among other things, he’s another one who’s in late-stage BDS.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:59 PMUsing
Everybody.
Has some systematic study been done, here or elsewhere in the conservative blogosphere, about the viability of secession? Not so much the South leaving the Union, but the Union leaving the Northeast. Or at least the rural seceding from the metropolii?
Would we be economically viable? Militarily sound? What would we lose and what would we gain?
Come on, let’s take a serious gander at this, I want to hear your ideas and opinions.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:09 AMUsing
LC ORWN @:
December 19th, 2008 at 12:20 AMI’d like some too, if I could find work down there. I’m willing to work for anyone who will take me, within reason.
Using
wish more people took this advice:
December 19th, 2008 at 12:21 AMUsing
LC MuscleDaddy, Имперский Заключительный Ответ @:Daddy, what I find so interesting in all this is that the same elitism that crowed so loudly after the Unions victory over the South was destiny simply because the North was superior in manufacturing and industrial output, is now singing the “Oh, woe is us, we’re being beaten at our own game”blues. After watching what not to do as far as management/labor relations for years, the South has settled on more of a right to work ethic, and it’s effectivness is profound. It is no small coincidence that manufacturing and research are focusing on Southern headquarters and production facilities. Taxes, corruption and union strongarming have decimated the workforce in the North and entrepeneurs simply vote with their feet. But, as I stated earlier, I don’t think this is as much a North/South issue as a Metro(liberal)/rural(conservative) issue. I am from as far North as you can get, hate anything that comes close to being a city, and would deem it a real honor to fight side by side with any Southern man who hates the Government the way I do :em96:
December 19th, 2008 at 12:29 AMUsing
I honestly don’t get it. The left was screaming bloody MURDER about the first bailout - every leftist blog was horrified and appalled at the idea of bailing out a failing business to the tune of huge sums of our tax dollars. It made no sense, except that perhaps Bush supported it; I mean it isn’t like they actually care about taxpayers or government spending. But they were FURIOUS.
Now they’re furious because the auto industry probably won’t get the same thing? Let me guess - is it because Republicans were the ones against it this time?
They have the most ridiculously short attention spans of, like, anyone in the fucking world. Plus they’re stark raving insane. They can’t remember what they stood for ten minutes ago - I guess that comes of standing for nothing.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:36 AMUsing
Hmmm. Another Yankee bigot? or is he an apostate Texan? Whatever.
We of the fair South (that’s “God’s Country,” y’all) are no worse than annoyed by the ignorant assaults on our intelligence by auslanders. In fact, most of us use it to our advantage: we’re always eating the lunch of some poor schmuck who underestimated us. And as my inestimable Uncle Clyde said, “There’s nothing they think about us that’s half so bad as what we think about them–we’re just too polite to say so.”
I asked my dad, ensconced in Chattanooga, what the deal is with the non-union plants, and he said they pay about the same hourly rate. They do have different work rules, though. And pensions, etc. Of course, to be fair, the union pay scale does put upward pressure on wage rates. AND it is well to remember that we’ll never be able to compete with labor in Malaysia, for instance: what do they get? 50 cents a day? it’s crazy. The textile business in the South did in fact go to Mexico and then Asia, chasing the lowest wages.
It’s a conundrum. Still, the unions are out of control. In New York City, the sanitation workers can RETIRE AT AGE 45, and collect FULL pensions! And when they ARE working, they only work three hours per shift. The rest of the time, they sit in the break room and drink.
That’s gubmint work for ya. Bunch of goddam drones.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:46 AMUsing
And now that I’ve finished the article and your commentary - holy SHIT.
This guy…he’s REALLY talking fighting words! Great big fighting words. War words.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:06 AMUsing
It wasn’t industry that let the North win. It was manpower, specifically Irish immigrant draftees which let the North win, once the Union had generals in charge which had the intestinal fortitude to fight a war of attrition.
Throughout late ‘64 and early ‘65 Grant was losing men three times as fast as Lee was. Union casualities at places like The Wilderness or Cold Harbor were horridous, but Grant could afford the losses while Bobby Lee couldn’t. That was the realization that lead to Lee surrender at Appomattox. Or in a different context, the western most fight of the Civil War was about 45 miles NW of where I’m at, Picacho Peak, AZ where the Confederate garrison of Tucson defeated the scouts of a Union force coming out of California. Even though they won the Confederates had to abandon Tucson because the incoming Union force was just too large.
On the plus side, that edge is leaving the North too, because the fastest growing areas of the country were formerly Confederate.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:24 AMUsing
War words… Secession? Shit I fucking WISH! Tell you what the first state to seceed…. will have me as a new citizen most ricky tick! As we speak Im doing my best to finagle my new job into a lateral transfer to Victoria Tx. Shit. Ide settle for a nice TDY assignment…fucking IL can kiss my white ass!
December 19th, 2008 at 1:30 AMUsing
Tallulah @:
Hey Tallulah - I’ve asked this once before… your nic - would that be as in “gorge” & “river”?
- MuscleDaddy
December 19th, 2008 at 1:39 AMUsing
jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @: :em99: :em01: I wish people would listen to that sign also
December 19th, 2008 at 4:46 AMUsing
Us Texicans n’ Southerners way down heah wanted some of that there autoMObile revenoo.
An’ since Michigan done got the market surely cornered way up North there, we decided to make it worth the while of all those other foreign countries what like to make veHICKles theirownselves move on in with us and create jobs n’ such.
Unlike those folks up there in Michigan, people in the South that work in these car factories put in 40 hours a week and get a fair wage and they don’t strike every other week and demand new rights and new benefits.
See, that’s what’s made it so those damn yankees up there cain’t make no money no matter how many cars they put together. They pay their workers too much to do too little.
If they can’t compete in a competitive marketplace, how is that our fault? We should be the bad guys because we didn’t make the same fuckin’ mistakes they did?
December 19th, 2008 at 5:41 AMUsing
The cost of living is also cheaper down here and those slave wages of $23/hour go pretty far. In fact, we’ve got that BMW plant down here, and to talk to people who have moved down here from Michigan, they love living here. (My husband had a car crash and demolished a Kia that was owned by a couple of Michigan transplants who moved down here to get jobs at BMW)
Who was this written by, a union official?
Sorry, but Michigan and the Autoworkers union destroyed it, not the South.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:30 AMUsing
*ahem*
As one of those Northern types living in the People’s Republic of MD, I have had the pleasure of seeing how high taxation = ruination. I may only have a Bachelor’s Degree, but I’m aware enough to realize that making an industry more competitive is the best way to keep it alive.
The willfully blind arrogance, coupled with his “observation” that “if we just throw more money away, things will work!” make me worry about the state of this country.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:26 AMUsing
Fuck, the South is the only place I could conceive of living - both for the climate and the whole individualism, self-reliance, personal responsibility thing - so anything the southern can do to improve their economies, even at the expense of the northern ones is fucking fine by me.
Do leftists really want to start war even after having disarmed themselves? Really? :em99:
I guess all I can do is plead once more to not start the fighting without me
December 19th, 2008 at 7:29 AMUsing
Just wake me up when the shooting starts … :em96: :em96: :em96:
December 19th, 2008 at 7:48 AMUsing
A lot of the letters over there at Salon.com are so thick with condescension…geez, talk about sour grapes, and misery loving company!
I wonder if the writer of this piece also was as outraged when US automakers were shipping out previously American jobs to Mexico?
December 19th, 2008 at 7:54 AMUsing
For the love of God they can’t be that stoopid and still be able function in society without a drool cup can they?
December 19th, 2008 at 8:03 AMUsing
Time to hit the ammo store…………..
And BTW if you look at this well done fisking of the article, you will see this man actually does imply that we ‘Neo-Confederates’ are in bed with fascists.
Wannabe totalitarian prick.
FETE
December 19th, 2008 at 8:08 AMUsing
What is it with marxist and other leftoid types. Whenever I read their tripe or listen to them speak; I get the impression I’m dealing with a delusional 3 year old….. oh, wait….. :em01:
December 19th, 2008 at 8:26 AMUsing
It is a common notion amongst the Left that:
1. People are not supposed to think for themselves. That is why we have the State.
2. ‘States Rights’ means the State is ALWAYS right,
3. Humankind’s natural habitat is within the Nanny State and the UNION.
4. People who believe non-UNION corporations should exist fall into the same category as ‘Anti-Abortion’ foes.
5. The Southern Resource Area’s dedication to non-UNION automakers will be ‘Dealt with’ after January, 2009
6. A tariff upon automobiles manufactured in the Southern Resource Area is required to ‘level the playing field’ with UNION manufactured automobiles.
Most importantly,
“Dear Leader Obama has DECIDED that UNION ÜBER ALLES is GOOD for His Country. We have no choice but to obey.”
December 19th, 2008 at 8:45 AMUsing
The larger picture, exposing his own character, unable to change those spots,,the insistence that OTHERS DO SOMETHING types n’ tags his own agitator ass.
‘Funny thing tho’,,for all his fearless spew of courageous incitement,,whom, do we t’ink would be the first to howl at a bloody nose?
All I’m hearing is a bark in the dark.
Want to see my carpetbag collection?
December 19th, 2008 at 8:50 AMUsing
Lawd, I do deeclaya that these heya lilly liveahd Yankees are gonna find themselves in a mess of a fight if they wantta to try to tell us how to run our businesses. Those carpetbaggers wouldn’t know which end of the rifle to throw the bullets at. They trahd to blockade us the last time. This time we can do the same right back at em. Thar’s no fight left in em. They’ll demand that Washington do the dirty work for em. Whereas we’un’s know how to do our own fightin’.
Bless their hearts. They can’t help that we’re better then they are. :em93:
December 19th, 2008 at 9:12 AMUsing
from the article,
arch; from the latin, fornix, root of fornication.
i think he is saying the South hasn’t been screwed over enough.
Lady H sez:
sweet, the Union is being destroyed by the unions
December 19th, 2008 at 9:14 AMUsing
Be nice ya’ll. He cant hep it if he’s slow. :em01:
December 19th, 2008 at 9:15 AMUsing
THISjust in. Bush floating the auto industry just enough to fail on B.O.’s watch. :em01:
December 19th, 2008 at 9:18 AMUsing
Well,
When y’all start your shootin’, just remember that not everyone who graces the Rott is a liberal or a southerner. Not all of us Northerners hold the same animosity towards the Southerners as some of you appear to hold towards us. I hope most of it is posturing, but I’ve been getting a sense lately that it’s not.
As I’ve said, the war was a long time ago. It’s time to get over it.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:29 AMUsing
For those that can’t understand what all this “Bailout Bullshit” is about…..Fred! is more than happy to explain it so you’s can understand it.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:41 AMUsing
Snicker ….
Care to guess what happens when we allow the “Big Three” to go to full bankruptcy?
Competent people buy the pieces … and move the plants to red states.
Awwwww … the poor blue-state unionist retards are all butt-hurt … and exactly what are they going to do about this? The sane conservative people in their blue states are the ones with the guns, not they.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:06 AMUsing
Talking about down Alice’s rabbit hole….
The little lefties always have their Obama bumper stickers attached to their Priuses (Toyota), Hondas, Hundais, and other mini tin cans. They have always been too elitist to buy American. So who’s fault is it then when the Big 3 go under? Now the same group of people want to save them with our tax money, what a joke.
This is about the scariest article I’ve ever read.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:15 AMUsing
It’s not Northerners per se we are grumpy with Skye, rather elitist,snobby,wanna-be totalitarian douchnozzles like this cuntmuffin.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:23 AMUsing
LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R., Imperial Grammar Hun sez:
you take our dislike of “damnyankees” for a condemnation of all Northerners. many fine, intelligent people were born in the north. however, if you do not wish to be mistaken for a pig move out of the sty.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:25 AMUsing
L C hilljohnny sez:
You make my case perfectly, Hilljohnny. It’s attitudes such as yours that keep the war going these many years later.
My parents are here, my children are here, my friends are here, my job is here.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:44 AMUsing
LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R., Imperial Grammar Hun sez:
Just make sure that you and yours always wear a red shirt, sweater or jacket … that way we’ll know that you’re a friendly, and aim at the dirtbag in Birkenstocks next to you instead. :em93:
December 19th, 2008 at 11:11 AMUsing
Some snippets from the tolerant Northerners in the comments:
‘
And my personal fave:
More goodies:
So enlightened and tolerant our betters are:
Sorry ’bout the long post, but if you find us a bit defensive Skye, keep in mind that this has been the conventional attitude of many northern liberals since Reconstruction. It really is not a regional battle, but rather an ideological one, however, the prevailing attitudes in both places emotionally reinforce the predominant ideology in that location. There are ALWAYS exceptions of course, but I find little that has been said here that even compares to the vitriol and hatred spewed upon the South from our ever so tolerant,liberal ”betters’ in the North.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:29 AMUsing
And another thing: 40% of the cost of any vehicle manufactured in this country is due to government mandates prescribed by law. Compliance with environmental and milage rquirements, safety features and social engineering ain’t free. The UAW could do itself and us one helluva big favor by taking our side against the parasitic green, (red) lice on our body politic. The same goes for the agony aunts who demand more f***ing seat belts, airbags, harnesses, helmets. and whatever else they can impose.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:43 AMWhen this lot shows up in Hell, they will get assigned to the smoking lounge. We like a clean environment down Here. Bob Redford can empty the ash trays.
Using
BigDogg @:Dogg, Please see my post #25, Sir. I grew up in Northern Minnesota, have served several tours at Southern Naval bases, even moved to Northern Georgia for several years and loved it. My choice to move back up North is much the same as Skye is relating. My point remains this, IT IS NOT A North/South issue this time. It is an ideological fight between forces that wish to maintain our unique culture opposing forces that are eager to tear down and replace everything we hold dear. If we sat down with a beer to talk things over, you would find me to be as much a brother-in-arms in this cause as the kid that grew up next door to you down South. We are both enraged at the same things this government is doing to our nation, Please don’t make this a sectional thing, because that makes US ALL, true patriots, the real losers. :em04:
December 19th, 2008 at 11:57 AMUsing
LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R., Imperial Grammar Hun sez:
thank you.
LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R., Imperial Grammar Hun sez:
having a heritage is a good thing.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:16 PMUsing
Mr. Michael Lind,
(a)Could that mean they have an intellegent, realistic grasp of economics?
(b)As for poaching industry, the New England textile industry
was “poached” from England. An engineer smuggled the power loom plans
out of England in his head. Also, by the way, could this
be the same industry that New England used to keep the South in thrall
in a neo–colonial condition? Which made the New England Idustrialists
rich off of SLAVERY? Where the hell do you think all the cotton for those
mills came from? Where do you think the molasses for the Boston rum
distilleries came from? Who bulildt the ships that carried that rum to
Africa to trade for Slaves? New England shipbuilders. Who owned said
ships? New England financiers.Didn’t your “progressive” education
inform you of the “Rum Triangle”?
Could one of these Liberal douchenozzels ever write a piece
without interjecting race into it?
WTF? Uh, what about the fact that the Federals invaded, made war
upon, crushed and punatiously occupied a Soverign
Democratic Nation, whose “people had spoken” by seceding from
the Union? Where’s the ourage? You Liberal piss–sacks had all sorts of
outrage about the invasion of the “soverign nation” of Iraq to get rid
of Saddam. Stinking hypocrit damn city–slicker asshole.
The trouble with ‘New England” is that they never got the “England” out
of the “New”. Still got the same arrogant condecending hubris of total
rightness in everything.
Hmmmmmmm. Could that longevity be attributed to the fact that it works?/strong>
That’s how a free–market economy works, douchebag.
And THAT, you petty, pathetic, little totalitarianist
tyrant, is ECONOMIC WARFARE!! And y’alls want to piss and moan about
U.S. “hedgeminy” abroad. But yet you advocate it against your own
countrymen. Sick, sick, sick, hypocritical little fool.
Or don’t you see us “bitter clingy” rednecks in “flyover
country” as your countrymen and equals? Obviously not. Fine. You and
your urban ilk are no longer our countrymen, either. Go to Hell,
ENEMY, or in your case, maybe ENEMA would be apropose.
Just remember, cuntbrain, those who live in the country,
controll the country. If it’s economic warfare you want,we
can give it to you. Shut down the trucking industry that brings in
ALL YOUR FOOD, then turn off the gas pipelines in the winter, and
bring down the power transmission lines, and you will starve, while
freezing in the dark! Maybe then you’ll understand who really counts
in this country. Also, never discount the power of an angry farm boy
with a high–power rifle. Remember, we kill things for fun!
Oh, and by the way, snotlikker, I’m not a Southerner. I’m a totally
December 19th, 2008 at 12:28 PMfed up country Northerner.(Yeah, you know the kind, what Sen. John
Murthafucker called “rednecks”.) Fed up with what Liberal Democrats
have done to our once thriving economy. You have successfully turned the
industrial belt into the rust belt by driving out the industry with
taxation and regulation, and I HATE YOU and ALL YOUR ILK!! Thanks for
the poverty, assholes. Now where’s OUR reparations?
Using
Hephaestus-forger of steel sez:
And this, I believe, is the money quote. Those of us in red state flyover country, though evvvvviiiiilllll northerners, are probably closer in ideology to the southerners than they realize. We want to be left alone. We want to live our lives without government intervention. We live in red states because that’s where we want to be. I live in the north because that’s where my heritage, my roots, and most of my loved ones are.
Hate to tell you this, Hilljohnny, but my heritage is just as important to ME as yours is to you.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:39 PMUsing
Hephaestus-forger of steel sez:
:em04: ……Money quote right there……. :em04:
Personally, it frustrates me that we have to make this a divisive North vs. South issue. I’m a Westerner, born and raised on the Colorado Front Range. My ancestors were homesteaders in that state, coming west in the 1870’s and 1880’s after immigrating from Ireland and the Isle of Man. I’m also an amateur historian regarding the
War of Northern AggressionGreat unpleasantnessAmerican Civil War. I hold neither side as the aggressors or bad guys, they were both fighting for principles that they held sacred. My heroes from that period include notable figures from BOTH sides, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain……George Custer…..John Buford…..Win Hancock….Thomas Jackson…..R.E. Lee…..Sgt. Richard Kirkland, the Angel of Marye’s heights……John B. Gordon in the sunken lane….funny thing, many of those heroes went to school together up north on the banks of the Hudson river, at West Point. Some of the finest Confederate officers lived in northern states. It was their belief in preserving the rights of the Southern states that forced their decision to fight against the nation they loved.
Today, there is NO geographic line that delineates protectors of our rights and the socialists that would erode them, there is only an ideological one…..that is the one that I recognize. I have friends ( and allies) in states North and South and East and West. I live in one of the bluest states in the U.S., but that doesn’t stop me from vigorously protecting my rights and freedoms from those who would take them from me……
If you’re looking to put a common front up against the shredders of the Constitution, then I would recommend that you NOT lump good solid red state Northerners with those east coast urban socialists who hold the narcissistic belief that it is THEY who know best how to rule the rest of us.
Know your enemy Billy’s and Johnny’s……you’re on the same side now
December 19th, 2008 at 1:06 PMUsing
Late to the party, as usual. However, a couple of points. If you go back to the contemporaneous sources, you will find that the sticking points that led to the First American Civil War centered as much around taxes and revenues as around the rabble-rousing point of slavery. Not that slavery was not evil. Not that it did not have to be brought to an end by one means or another; but what concerned those in smoke filled rooms in the Capitol was money.
Slavery as an institution was already dying because it was not economically feasible as cotton and tobacco exhausted the soil. Given 50 years it would have died out economically except for personal servants [which were legal in the North. Ulysses S. Grant and his wife had two slaves as personal servants. He took one on campaign with him.] The concept of farming in Kansas [ then called the Great American Desert] being able to support slavery is ludicrous, but they fought over whether it would be a slave or free state.
The battle over “slave states” -vs- “free states” was as much a proxy battle over who wrote the budget as anything else. Take a look at the Constitution, the version that was in force when the phrase was “The United States are” rather than “The United States is“. Literally, the only revenue source constitutionally available to the Federal government was taxes on imports and excise taxes on some few American goods [q.v. moonshine] unless they did a head tax right after a census,which was never done. [Article I, Section 8].
The North was both agriculturally self-sufficient, and had a sufficient manufacturing base to produce almost all that it needed. It did not import non-luxury goods from overseas to any great extent.
The South was primarily agricultural. Other than subsistance farming, the primary cash crops were cotton and tobacco. Mostly cotton. Northern cotton mills would pay for Southern cotton, but not nearly as much as what European countries would pay. Thus, the crops were sold overseas.
In those days, moving money between countries was not an easy thing. No wire transfers, no international banking of any note, no agreed exchange rates. Goods, however, could be shipped AND could be insured. Therefore, the cotton crops were sold overseas, the proceeds were deposited in local overseas banks in the local currency. The planters’ agents would buy goods at the direction of their principals; and ship them to the South [insured, as ships did not always make it in those days].
When they arrived, they were taxed with import tariffs. Note the relative importance given Customs Houses in the North and in the South.
In the decade or so before the outbreak of hostilities, 85% of Federal revenues came from the South. By no conception could it be said that Federal spending was 85%, or even 50%, allocated to the South. The dichotomy of slave/free states represented the sectional interests of the country, and where money could be spent. If your side got most of the money and someone else furnished it, would not it be in your interest to both do whatever is necessary to maintain that status quo and to vilify the source of the money so that any protests about that status quo could be discounted due to the source?
This flaming idiot, and indeed the entire Hussein Obama regime is engaged in a reprise of what happened before.
It is interesting that in the last 40 years, the Democrats have shifted locales, but maintained the same social /political distinctions. The stronghold of the Democratic Party in those days was the South. It was the Democrats in the South who wrote the Jim Crow laws, who formed the KKK, who maintained the segregated educational system [although it was also segregated in the North, including the Northeast], and whose police loosed the attack dogs and fire hoses on those who opposed segregation.
From 1968 on, a switch took place. The Democrats began centering in the North and Northeast, and Republicans gained in the South and West [except for the Left Coast] as the old racist institutions died. The Democrats brought their detestation for the United States and America as a concept with them, along with their desire to keep minorities “on the plantation”. Except that they now use government programs to keep minorities dependent instead of the whip and the overseer.
But the cited article is a continuation of the same economic struggle between North and South, except now the North has a Marxist doctrine to reinforce its efforts.
If the Night of Fire should ever come, it will not be states seceding or at least it will not be likely at first. There are differences between mindsets between regions and states, but we are too intermixed for it to be as simple as seceding. This would be war to the knife, literally. One likely tactic would be economic blockades of urban areas which usually are far more Socialist. Given that our food supply is mostly in transit, and most urban areas only have a 3 day supply in warehouses; cutting rail lines and roads would be effective. Also natural gas lines, water sources, and high tension routes. And it would not be pretty. Think 30 Years War. I am not joking.
There will be a separation, as the proverbial Night of Fire approaches, but it will be far from complete.
I think culturally, I can say that I would fit in better as a Southerner. Does it count if your family comes from South China? Mind you, I am not at all fond of either hurricane seasons, 100%+ apparent humidity and 100+ degrees [I have visited the Ozarks, New Orleans, and Pensacola NAS in July], or mosquitos that bear Cessna trademarks. But if I would live in the shade of the Tree of Liberty, it might be necessary.
# 29 Kenashimame
On a slightly different subject, I knew that Arizona was for a short period of time a Confederate territory until an Imperial butt-load [slightly larger than the traditional two hogsheads] of Federales detoured south en-route from California to the battlefields in the East. [Pressure from the Apache who did not care what color white people wore did not help.] I knew nothing of a battle of Picacho Peak. Can you cite any historical resources I could chase down.
LC Subotai Bahadur
December 19th, 2008 at 1:12 PMUsing
LCgahayz @:
Mighty fine, Sir, mighty fine. All that you said.
I agree that Southerners should realize that casting the current cultural/political war in terms of North v. South and recollecting the “late unpleasantness” of 1860 - ‘65 is shortsighted and does not serve our cause very well.
It sure feels good though. Don’t let your feelings get in the way of the truth… or in deciding how to proceed. As I said at #6 and #7, Hephestus at #25, and several others, it’s the cities and their insular elites against the more self reliant small town/rural folks. The ‘liberals’ against the conservatives, wherever they live.
That’s the geography of division now. Just because this
December 19th, 2008 at 1:20 PM“essayast”“journalist”“editor”propagandister, suppurating canker on the cloaca of a newt decides to frame it as a “Southern” problem doesn’t make it so. Anything this oozing pustule spews is automatically wrong anyway, donchaknow?Using
Emperor Misha I sez:
Damn right Sire! :em69:
I’ve said often enough that the Alamo is not a place but a state of mind — well being a Southerner is also a state of mind. I’ve a couple of friends born in Oregon and Minnesota who are thoroughly Confederatized. I was born in Louisiana, even if I now live in South Dakota. But I’ve lived in the cold long enough that I no longer say “Bless his soul” but “Damn his eyes!”
When the time comes, I’ll start the trek further South, leaving a trail of retribution in my wake. Skye(Honey)Child , I’lll pass through Nebraska, so I’ll gather you up on my way South. You’ll learn Southern ways.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:23 PMUsing
LC Subotai Bahadur :
Of course you are welcome in the southern states……..after all, I was born in Pusan and I am.
The loon(apologies to feathered loons everywhere), that wrote this HAS to also write for the Onion.
I can think of no other way anyone with a single brain cell could take this bilge seriously…..Then I
read the various comments to his article.
Bring it you northern elitist socialist assholes……..BRING IT ON!! I can rock and roll with the best of
them. Stupid turds………
Semper Fi
December 19th, 2008 at 1:39 PMUsing
LC Subotai Bahadur @63:
Goggle “Battle of Picacho Pass” you will get some very good hits. 95 miles North and West of me right off of Interstate 10.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:48 PM:em04:
Using
Yup, them Tennesseans got a little bit of sense and a whole lot of moonshine–my kinda folks! Remember Davy Crockett’s ultimate treatise on the fiscal aspects of the Consitution and Federalism, usually referred to as the “Not Yours to Give” speech (can’t vouch for the source, but the speech seems to be the real deal). Read it and weep for the dynamic, self-sufficient nation we have lost.
I, like so many of us, need to buy a new(er) vehicle. I want to buy ‘merican for lots of reasons, but I’ll pro’ly have to just keep applying bubblegum and bailing wire to the old Volvo, ’cause the gummint done took my monies! F— you, F— you very much, scum-bucket, pick-pocket feds! If they’d keep their noses out of private business, I’ll bet I could get that GTO I want for a reasonable price and employ some good non-union ‘merican workers at the same time (not building cars–GTOs are out of production, so all used–fixing the roads I’d be tearing up and police to chase me).
December 19th, 2008 at 1:51 PMUsing
Wanna address this on a sociological perspective. The writer of the article was off in that he chose to focus on one aspect (the auto industry) as his point of contention, and at the same time was on as he hit the “metaphorical” descriptor on the head. It is obvious to anyone with a brain that this is a idealogical issue along cultural lines. If you transpose the word North with Urban and South with Rural the polarization in the way the majorities “think” is right there for all to see. Different perspective regarding who is “responsible” for providing who, what. The average urbanites greatest mistake is thinking that “rural” represents ignorance. I would put the intellect of the average farmer and all the disciplines that one has to master to do that job, against the urbanite that practices but one discipline 8-10 hours a day to earn a living.
See the CW2 pdf that was floating around a couple of months ago. But the bottom line for those that indicate that they cannot relocate due to family, etc., is that you MAY HAVE TO. or else you face being caught behind the lines. Extreme times call for extreme measures (relocating)
Th idiot that wrote the article just caught a whiff of what is brewing and may very well be a natural sociological result. Me thinks the Urbanites / psuedo intellectuals have gotten too big for thier proverbial britches. They dont understand the resource availability imbalance that face them. The rural population understands the resources it has and is beggining to wonder what benefit the urbanites bring to the equation, especially when the urbanites seem to lack any appreciation for where the “goods” come from.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:55 PMUsing
LC Subotai Bahadur @:
South Dakota says South China is South - and just fine. :em69: I think we’d be delighted to make you a commander of something. :em04:
it is not often remembered but during Civil War I, the only non-Caucasian general officer on either side was a Confederate, General Stand Waite, a full-blooded Cherokee.
And email me at stogramov at msn dot com for a copy of the CWII pdf.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:01 PMUsing
LC Rurik sez:
I think you sent me one of those a while back, but I think that was before my old computer burned up….I lost a lot of files with that. could I get one too?
December 19th, 2008 at 2:07 PMUsing
Speaking as the Northernmost Rottie. ( 04424 zip, a stones throw from canada. )
I must take minor offense.
My family has been in the same county since before America existed. My families roots to this land predate the Colonies ( we interbred with the natives, and will actually -admit- to it. ),
It pains me to see all these goddamn liberals running around up here. We do what we can to run them off, but there are -so many-. And… we are so few.
While the temptation to move to Texas ( a good and fine place, smiled upon by God himself. ) is strong, the call of ‘home’ is still stronger. The weather is horrible, and the land poor, and the neighbors atrocious, but it is home.
Do not disparage my home for the fact that it is surrounded by -spit- liberals.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:08 PMUsing
From Davy Crockett’s biography, the ‘money’ quote:
“Money with them (Congress/the wealthy, ed.) is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people. But it is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it.”
To which we can add “Power” to money as the ultimate seductress of integrity and honor.LC Subotai
Bahadur @63:
“Think 30 Years War. I am not joking.”
The US Military could settle the whole thing under the right leadership and conditions in about two days.
I sure hope your scenario, though certainly possible, does not come to pass.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:26 PMUsing
Oh, and just one more thing:
HELL NO, WE AIN’T FERGETTIN’!
December 19th, 2008 at 2:46 PMUsing
A history lesson. Warning - exceedingly long comment ahead.
The South was the home of two different groups: slaveholding elites (dubbed Cavaliers by some historians), and my ancestors, rednecks who wanted to be left alone. The former group held the power statewide and nationally, and thanks to the Constitution’s three-fifths compromise, their states held political power in Washington disproportionate to its non-slave numbers. The elites were rich, although they could have been richer if they had freed the slaves - free labor is more productive than slave labor - but elites in general do not trust people they can’t control under their thumbs.
I believe that the main reason the rednecks remained predominantly poor is because of their cultural insularity. The most prosperous societies are the ones that are the most eager to engage in peaceful trade with strangers. Emperor Misha knows this from his own history - Denmark was part of a region that flourished from trade, having both the geographical advantage of coasts and rivers and a culture not too damned paranoid about furriners to do trade with them.
Such a culture was far more common in the North than in the South. The North also had an elite, one that had different means of taking people’s stuff. The Yankee elite crafted mercantilist economic policy to disadvantage the South, through measures such as the 1828 Tariff of Abominations. Yankees also invented public education (in Massachusetts), whereby elites could control the flow of information to everyone’s children.
For some reason, secession came about. I guess that the South couldn’t be secure in its Senate majority, since that majority wasn’t enough to block Yankee tariffs. Honest Abe invaded Virginia, and more states seceded. Rednecks enlisted because, from their perspective, Yankee armies were coming down to take everybody’s stuff.
After the war, North and South each pioneered two different forms of oppression: unionism and Jim Crow, respectively. The former placed certain labor forces under feudal control, like the guilds of old. The latter acted not only as a form of protectionism - keeping blacks out of certain professions - but even prevented blacks from patronizing certain businesses. The South was poorest where Jim Crow was strongest. The North relied on private-sector prejudice in place of Jim Crow.
Meanwhile, many rednecks (hereafter dubbed the New Rednecks) were trending away from their historic insularity. I believe this had been happening all along, where the rednecks were less geographically isolated, and more distant from the influence of the South’s old guard and the Frenchified political corruption of Louisiana. The New Rednecks were more tolerant, and like other cosmopolitan societies were more sympathetic to free-market ethics.
20th-century America witnessed history’s most rapid thawing of ethnic tensions, which essentially began after WWII. In the South, the New Rednecks were the first on board. The New Rednecks were the ones who joined the Freedom Riders, who cheered Jackie Robinson, who supported Rosa Parks, who supported Billy Graham’s desegregation of his crusades. The Cavaliers and Old Rednecks (probably in that order) eventually followed that cultural trend.
The New Rednecks eventually became the dominant power in the South. Its free market ethic appeals to the leave-us-alone mentality that the New and Old Rednecks share, and that chafes at the feudalist attitudes of the Cavalier remnant. (Rednecks bred a lot faster than Cavaliers, fortunately.)
While the South evolved toward freedom, the North evolved away from it. Yankee elites are still the same thieves they were in the 1900s. They still use tax policy to profit their allies at the expense of everyone else. American unions are most prevalent in the North; they have always served to loot businesses and to feed political machines. Economic malaise is strongest where that combination is strongest.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:10 PMUsing
LC Roguetek @:
OMG! You are a neighbor of Kayinsane!
:em98: :em95:
I sure can see why!
December 19th, 2008 at 3:38 PMUsing
As a Northerner from the Wolverine State (who incidentally is a naturalized citizen and has absolutely no familial ties to the War Between the States), I would just like to say that the article referenced above (the one written by the Northern liberal) is the brainchild of a complete idiot. When i was in school, i was taught that the Republican Reconstructionists were “benevolent” and that the Southern whites were “evil.” Only later did i learn just how “benevolent” those earlier Republicans really were. Those Northern carpetbaggers were so radical they make the Leftists of today look like Edmund Burkes.
I’ve never been to the South myself but i think it’s one of the best and most patriotic parts of the country. These liberal Nazis will never give it up. And people from my part of the country have the audacity to accuse Southerners of “re-fighting” the War Between the States.
http://politicalanimal.today.com/
December 19th, 2008 at 3:41 PMUsing
LC Rurik @:
got dat right.
Don’t forget Judah P. Benjamin, either. Benjamin held the following posts:
* Member of the Louisiana House of Representatives;
* U.S. Senator from Louisiana; and
* Three successive Cabinet posts in the government of the Confederate States of America
He was also a distinguished barrister and Queen’s Counsel in the United Kingdom. He was the first Jewish Cabinet-member in a North American government, and the first Jew seriously considered for nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court (he declined an offer of nomination twice). He was the second Jewish U.S. Senator (after David Levy Yulee of Florida).
So, yeah, the South was and is really more egalitarian and progressive (in the sense of moving forward, not just to the left) than the North has been since those stuffy ol’ Pilgrims landed up at Plymouth. Liberal Yankees always forget that only SOME southerners owned slaves. My people were dirt farmers, aka Red Necks, who were slaves to hunger, disease, marauders, the Union, back-breaking work, and the landlord, but forever refused to bow, believing themselves free–no room and board provided by those “massahs”–they made their own, just like we do today.
Having slaves in the region, then having a population of freed slaves also meant we all did and continue to live elbow to elbow with African Americans. Had we not been saddled with the scourge of affirmative action, we would be a far more reconciled, prosperous, and culturally dynamic society.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:42 PMUsing
#72 LC Roguetek,
The pull of home and roots is understood. I offer two names: John Singleton Mosby and Francis Marion.
#73 Jon the Imperial Hunter,
We’ve passed into the realm of Clausewitz, sadly. The above is the best case scenario. The question is, do we have a Cincinnatus? Mine is the worst case scenario, short of submission. I am not an optimist by nature, and I have worked for too many bloody bureaucrats who only believed in “best case planning” because it is too unpleasant to be ready for the worst case. I will be happy to celebrate the best case if it should come to pass.
#75 Alan K. Henderson,
No argument on the overall thrust as far as the cultural changes, however if I may insert one quibble:
After the election of 1860, due to the collapse of the Whigs and the split of the Democrats, the Republicans had an absolute majority in both Houses in the 37th Congress. Senate: 31 Republicans + 3 Unionist Party -vs- 15 Democrats [1 vacancy] House: 108 Republicans + 28 Unionist Party + 2 Union Party + 2 Constitutional Unionist Party -vs- 44 Democrat + 1 Independent Democrat Party.
http://www.nationmas.....h-Congress
The entire election was along sectional lines, and with the Republicans able to push literally anything through both Houses of Congress, and with Lincoln as the President after the election ; the South was sure that they were about to be subjected to absolute tyranny with no recourse. Does that sound vaguely familiar if you substitute Democrats/Socialists + RINO’s -vs- Republicans + Conservatives for North and South respectively? It was after the results of that election [November 1860] became known that secession became an acceptable option, beginning with South Carolina on December 24, 1860.
LC Subotai Bahadur
December 19th, 2008 at 4:31 PMUsing
Hephaestus-forger of steel @ 58 sez:
I agree completely … my “southern aggression” is mostly tongue-in-cheek. Please take no offense, I have nothing against “yankees.” I was actually born & raised in Colorado. I got to Texas as soon as I could (18 years ago).
Again, I agree completely. I’ve not found a group of people who see things so much the way I do as the Rotties. I don’t care where you were born, or where you live … I know where you’ll be welcome when the SHTF.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:28 PMUsing
I’m glad to see that, Bigg Dogg; though I’m born and raised in the Northeast, I am just as much subject to the tyranny of the cities, the urbanites, the leftist fucks who rule them as anyone else is, and just as much a sister to the death as your neighbors in Savannah or anywhere else. That metroweenie sonofabitch just THINKS that everyone up here believes the same bullshit he does, and wouldn’t as soon shoot him where he stands than let him enact his policies.
Actually, the article he wrote makes me so furious I have trouble saying anything about it without screaming and cursing incoherently so I’ll stop there. But I’d love to see the author of such hate screeds be the first to go.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:38 PMUsing
LC Subotai Bahadur sez:
Oh, they’re on my bookshelf…along with others.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:42 PMUsing
LC Subotai Bahadur @:This has been a great discussion that we can all cotribute too and gain from. My reply to Troy and to Subotai is that we have whittled enough material away from the stick to see the shape of the problem. This problem is indeed a battle between cultures that can not exist in harmony because their visions, their reason de tre, are diametrically opposed to each other. The original Civil War was a sectional battle that revolved around many issues, central to which was one primary, often undiscussed issue of enslavement. Take slavery out of the discussion, the combatants could agree on acceptable if not always amicable solutions. This coming conflict will not be settled this way because the two philosophies do not allow for the peaceful co-existance of ideas. It is time we in the conservative movement understand that this is a winner take all, no prisoners type struggle. The Left has risen to power not by the strength of their argument, but by our aquiesence or “laziness” in allowing others to gradually usurp our responsibilities. Socialists can not abide the idea of personal responsibility because it leaves to much unpredictability to their social model. Most conservatives grudginly accept some government framework but resist the flock mentality and the government “padock”. Taken to their logical extremes, a position that we are very close too, these positions must lock in a conflict from which only one party can walk away. I intend to be in that group :em96:
December 19th, 2008 at 6:17 PMUsing
#83 Hephaestus-forger of steel
When we are trying to explain matters, especially to those with limited backgrounds in such serious affairs, we have to choose our words carefully and define things as we go along. Amongst ourselves, who understand the world, these things are implicit. We understand the seriousness of which we speak.
One of our advantages is that the mass of those who are not our countrymen any more, cannot conceive of any bad outcomes applying to them. Blinded and stunned by unicorn farts, they are. Most of us have seen and/or dealt with death. We know that it is not a Hollywood special effect. We know that a point can be reached where talk becomes superfluous. And we have things that we value more than our own personal comfort. Indeed, I am sure that we have things that we value more than our lives. And their lives, if the Night of Fire should come.
LC Subotai Bahadur
December 19th, 2008 at 7:07 PMUsing
It’s not like no one saw this coming. Every year the UAW had strikes and agitated for $70/hr jobs and 30 hour workweeks people were predicting in the super-competitive automobile manufacturing/selling industry they were going to lag behind their international competitors who didn’t handicap themselves like that.
Now because the South and mid-West are now filled with auto manufacturing plants that didn’t make the stupid mistakes of Detroit’s Big Three, this means the uppity South needs another smackdown via an ‘overarching’ Federal bureaucracy?
Dream on!
All a bailout would do is help sustain several companies in the process of going under who WON’T change their practices.
That’s why the first Bailout failed. They refused to change the very practices that force the Big Three into inefficiency and an inability to be competitive with their competition.
And their response when they go crying to Uncle Sam for money to stay afloat is that it’s the South’s fault!
Those eeeeeeevil Southern politicians killed the bailout! How dare they!
They drove themselves into the ground and are blaming everybody but themselves.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:11 PMUsing
What’s the difference between a RINO and a Marxist Socialist Democrat?
The RINO will look guilty while giving away billions of dollars of your money:
http://hotair.com/ar.....cle-sammy/
Merry Christmas, Detroit, from your already-broke Uncle Sammy; Update: Bush video added
posted at 9:45 am on December 19, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Bailout mania continues. George Bush will give the Big Three automakers a whopping $17.4 billion loan package from TARP funds in order to keep them limping along until March 31:
So the government, already in debt over 10 trillion dollars, will use its line of credit to give a loan to companies going bankrupt from their own debt load — and demand viability in 100 days. Who wouldn’t love that deal?
Supporters of a government bailout of the auto industry managed to hoodwink the administration in part through some very misleading statistics. They claim that 10% of all American jobs get direct or indirect support from the Big Three automakers, a claim repeated by Senator Carl Levin on NBC’s Meet the Press. ABC News says that they’re off by a factor of almost seven:
We have over 135 million jobs in the US. Anyone claiming 10% of American jobs is related to the auto industry would have to show almost 14 million people working directly or indirectly for the auto industry in general. The auto industry as a whole in the US affects a seventh of that, and GM, Ford, and Chrysler would only affect a portion of those 2.1 million jobs.
Well, now the auto industry affects all of our jobs. We’re all coughing up enough money for a down payment on a new car from every family in America, only without actually getting the car. And even if we’d used that money to buy a new GM, Ford, or Chrysler instead of it being a loan, none of the three would have shown a profit from the sales anyway. They’re losing money on every car they sell, and neither management nor labor shows much interest in changing those calculations. They just want a Governmentus ex machina to rescue them from their own folly without having to sacrifice anything … and George Bush just gave it to them.
Update (AP): Here’s the announcement.
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
December 19th, 2008 at 7:23 PMUsing
The Government would have to oppose any secession (any government that permitted secession would lose its legitimacy entirely.) The military would side with the government, and no potential secessionist force has anywhere near the firepower, discipline, training or experience of the United States Army. It wouldn’t work.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:39 PMUsing
I thought the AIP had a legitimate legal grounds to put it to a vote; that it was written into their contract when they were accepted into the union.
In which case they may be the only part of the union able to secede peacefully and completely legally.
But they’d have to push it.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:52 PMUsing
December 19th, 2008 at 7:55 PMUsing
December 19th, 2008 at 7:58 PMUsing
Born in NY, raised in NM, spent most of my adult life in CT, and finally escaped to FL five years ago.
I just got back from a week in the ‘Nutbag State’ visiting close friends. Everything was hugs and kisses….until political ideology reared it’s ugly head. HOLY SHIT! You must understand, these are people that I would kill for, hide the bodies and create air-tight alibis , nothing will change that.
The obligatory 2A question came up. Things got hot. Every weak anti-gun opinion was obliterated by well reasoned and researched fact. This did not endear me. That argument ended with “There’s just no point in talking to you! You’re crazy!” That’s when you know you’ve won.
It got me thinking. Had my friends always been nutroots? Had I learned to embrace the friendship and avoid any conflict? Or had things deteriorated significantly in the last half decade? I think it’s a combination.
The prevailing attitudes in the North are much more statist, with an air of intellectual superiority, stepping away has made that much more clear.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:59 PMUsing
LC Patton sez:
I wouldn’t bet the farm on that.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:03 PMUsing
LC Patton sez:
At the moment, I’d have to agree with Patton (with a name like that, how could I not?).
Any secession movement, civil war, or revolution would have to BEGIN within the military. This would first require the removal of “political” Generals and other officers with Leftist tendencies and a consolidation of the military as a political power (a conservative political power). No action to return this nation, or any part of it, to its Constitutional foundations that is based on any kind of violence could possibly succeed without first co-opting all, or a large majority, of the military.
But I think the question being asked is whether the South would still be vulnerable to the increased industrial might of the North as they were in the 1860s. I think the answer is no. The South today has more than enough of everything needed to sustain a war, win it, and continue as a major industrialized power. More than that, the center of the nation would likely join with the South, bringing with it the Breadbasket of the world (let the Bostonians live on lobster — see how long they last.)
The only thing the South lacks is major PORTS (because ports are in cities, and we know who lives in cities). So I think one of the first things would be to oust the leftists from Houston.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:03 PMUsing
Eyas @: I concur Eyas, the military is more likely to ally with a pro-constitutional faction than with a pro-left wing, big government socialist faction. After thinking this through for several years, it is my considered opinion that the left is going to destroy itself and it will start with breakdown of civil order within the major metropolitan areas where the higherarchy of liberalism hold sway. The level of elitism exhibited by these people convinces me that they trully believe the peons in the hinterland will continue to genuflect to our uberlords forever and that food, gasoline, power, and every other good thing will just magically appear in their homes, deli’s, coffee bistro’s , and salons. They really have no consciousness of the fact that EVERYTHING they hold dear comes from outside and is delivered TO them, BY US PEONS. Even a minor disruption to that supply system will ignite civil upheaval that will essentially be a fission-type reaction. Clean it up or let it burn, makes no difference to me.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:33 PMUsing
I’ll make a deal with everyone in the following states:
New Mexico, Mississippi, Alaska, Louisiana, West Virginia, North Dakota, Alabama, South Dakota, Kentucky, Virginia, Montana, Hawaii, Maine, Arkansas, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Missouri, Maryland, Tennessee, Idaho, Arizona, Kansas, Wyoming, Iowa, Nebraska, Vermont, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Utah, Indiana, Ohio, Georgia
- none of you will ever again have to pay ANYTHING in Federal taxes, entitlements, etc.
BUT, you may never receive another federal dime.
Why?
‘Cause most of us in the so-called “blue cities” are tired of carrying your whiney asses.
Go ask Texas, they are doing a little better than the rest of you. I’m sure they wouldn’t mind.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:48 PMUsing
LC Patton @:
So far as you say it, you’re correct. But secession. as such, is the least likely demouemnet for a number of other reasons, such as the serious intermiximg of peoples in our country. Just look at this thread and notice how many “pro-Southerners” are located throughout the rest of hte country. And how many people on the other side (including certain ethnic minorities) are located in the South? There are a lot of damnyankees who have been moved into the South by their corporations for career reasons. This war will not be nearly so neat as a secession, and much, much worse. The war, at least in the early stages, will see the battle lines run through towns and even individual apartment buildings. As LC Subotai says, “war to the knife”. We should be thinking in terms of Yugoslavia 1991 and Spain in August 1936. Or Rwanda. Only later, after much ethnic cleansing might semi-stable battle lines appear.
The posture of the military? That will depend most of all on the proximate causes of the conflict’s start. This topic has been, and is being, discussed in a number of places, and I hear contradictory responses from equally authoritative sources. - “The Military are professionals and will follow orders, regardless; particularly the Marines.” “The military are loyal to the Consititution and will refuse to obey orders to the contrary.” Several serving Marines have assured me they would refuse orders to confiscate citizen arms. I suspect that our troops would not hesitate to fire on Code Pink or Iternational ANSWER rioters if given the order; firing on a group of pro-American demonstators, such as Gathering of Eagles & Eagles UP, some of whom might be wearing their uniforms or medals is another matter.
I remind you that the USSR came apart because the Soviet military refused orders of the Extraordinary Commission in August 1990 - even the KGB’s Alfa force balked at orders.
Let me offer the Petrograd scenario. In March 1917 there was growing, disorganized turmoil in the Streets of the Russian Capitol. And one day the (second-line) troops fired on the crowd inflicting serious casualties. that night they went back to their barracks and decided they would not again fire on their fellow Russians. Within a week a Provisional Government was trying to create a new government. Something very similar could happen if the American military were to create a domestic atrocity.
For me, it is paramount to assure that this factor is managed so that the military will sympathize with us. There are a lot of signs suggesting that the incoming regime may inadvertently assist this effort.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:55 PMUsing
ThorsHammer sez:
Not a very well thought out graph.
For one thing, Texas has about 5 to 7 times the population of states like Rhode Island and Deleware I could be way too conservative on that.
Looking at just how much each state gets doesn’t tell you much if you don’t take in the size and population of that state into consideration.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:58 PMUsing
Darth Bane - Imperial Executioner & Official Beer Taster @:
We’re not talking about total dollars received. It’s about dollars received versus taxes paid. All the states listed above do better by the feds than they pay in.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:07 PMUsing
ThorsHammer @ 95:
I’ll make you a deal … you and yours can have every state bordering the Atlantic (from DC to the north) and California (from San Fran north), Oregon and Washington state. Get the fuck out of every other state and region, and take your tree-hugging, tax-and-spend, limpdick pacifist comrades with you. Form whatever type of socialist government you want. After your new “country” has been invaded and conquered 9 or 10 times, we’ll reclaim it and relegate you stupid leftist fucks (however many may remain) to psych wards and circus side-shows.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:15 PMUsing
Hephaestus-forger of steel @:
Poor, poor Hephaestus. The ugliest of the gods (just kidding … well, not about the mythical Hephaestus). And hey, you ended up with Aphrodite, i.e., Uma Thurman. I would endure butt-ugliness to be surrounded by such beauty.
But to your point - I would like you to try and make your argument to my longshoremen friends. They are the bluest of the “Blue” staters. And they supply you and your ersatz secessionist friends with all the flat-screen tee-vees, iPods, and … parts for your so-called efficient, competitive auto plants (from such all-American cities like Tokyo, Seoul, and Hamburg).
Oh, and one other aside - the governments in Tokyo, Seoul and Berlin subsidize their auto industries (with health insurance, etc.), as does every US state (tax breaks, etc.). Wonder how long that will last when you secede and are cut off from the federal dole, and people start screaming for their state governments to make up the difference?
December 19th, 2008 at 9:26 PMUsing
BigDogg @:
But if we secede from you and yours, that means we will be taking our defense dollars with us. So, you can pay the salaries of ALL those soldiers and marines, along with maintaining all the high-tech weapons.
Oh, wait. We will be taking the profitable high-tech companies that design and build those weapons systems. We will also have the ports, infrastructure and California’s Central Valley (America’s bread basket, if you haven’t heard of it). However, we will be happy to export our goods to you … with a slight tariff.
Sounds good to me!
December 19th, 2008 at 9:42 PMUsing
ThorsHammer sez:
and we’ll do the same with all the foodstuff we ship to YOU……
or maybe we’ll just let you deal with the hunger pains for a while, it can be a hell of a reality check blue boy
December 19th, 2008 at 9:55 PMUsing
Bullshit, you fucking asshole! I live here, fool..and rest assured, there is no love for liberalism or the eastern elites here. We despise you as a whole, your cities seek to rob us blind, tell us we use too much of your fucking precious water you steal from everyone around you. Funny thing about growing food…you need water. And as an afterthought…….we live where the food is grown, cut the supply lines, and you would have to come to us to get it. On our turf, facing our guns. The cities are parasites. :em96:
December 19th, 2008 at 10:03 PMUsing
jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @:
As I said, we keep the Central Valley. Enjoy your federally subsidized corn, soybeans and sugar. Yum.
Hmmm … looks like we DON’T get to keep the Central Valley. Oh, well. Guess we will have to levy tariffs on them too … for the steel and farm equipment we bring in through our ports. Oh, and again … no more federal farm subsidies. Boo-hoo to you.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:03 PMUsing
ThorsHammer @:
Excellent link; but I’m not sure that it tells us anything specific. It only tells us what it tells us.
For instance, Lousiana is pretty high on the list; but that’s for 2005 — in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. The same is probably true for 2006 & ‘07; but may not be indicative of their average give & take.
Also, I notice that D.C. is placed outside the ranked list at more than $5.00 per dollar in taxes.
I’m not sure that it reflects actual cities, as much as “greater metropolitan areas” - not that that means much; just that the cities themselves may be as dependent on tax dollars as are those in the sticks.
In addition, the list you linked doesn’t give any historical perspective on where Federal money has come from and gone to.
Also, value added jobs in industry and technology are mostly located in the more densely populated states, but the raw materials usually come from larger states (geographically speaking). One without the other is useless; but value added jobs can be created — raw materials cannot.
Lastly (although I have been a life-long city- and suburb-dweller until recently) I think I’d be more than happy to accept the deal you propose. Many folks who claim to despise socialism are more than happy to take Federal subsidies when they are handed to them. Additionally, the list you’ve provided is more or less a list of Pork Barrel spending. Both of which are things I’d love to put an end to.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:08 PMUsing
Pessimism isn’t as bad as we’ve been lectured.
When we plan for and expect the worst, and the worst happens, we’re ready mentally and otherwise.
Ah but,,
If the worst is avoided, doesn’t happen,, Big Bonus!
Happy dance.
Some folks just totaly lack that foresight gene:
December 19th, 2008 at 10:14 PMI know a lady that won’t carry a spare tire because it makes her trunk stinky.
Too bad so many make it into office.
Using
Wrong again….much equipment is shipped via rail, from both the Midwest and South. And we do build some ourselves. And by the way, we grow largely veggies, corn, cotton, soybeans and alfalfa. Another thought, your winter veggies come from the South and here where I am. Good luck with that. Good luck feeding your livestock you keep in your backyard. And I have to wonder, just where do you plan on getting your wheat, among other things. The Dakotas, Nebraska and Kansas have a sizeable population not caring for the feds, and the forced subsidies they must take to sell their product. Seems to me they managed quite well before them, as family farms. As for charging us, we can watch you starve to death……..on televisions we import from Mexico. Bottom line is…we don’t need you. And you do need us.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:19 PMUsing
ThorsHammer sez:
no…..boo hoo to you city slicker, we’ll still have the food. We just won’t be growing it on a government grant.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:21 PMUsing
LC HJ Caveman82952 @:
So-called conservatives always bitch and moan about cities and liberals as parasites, but it was the Progressive Movement in the early part of the previous century which worked to guarantee your rights to a fair wage and to not be exploited by landowners.
But you guys continue to be duped by powerful elites, like ADM and Monsanto, that their interests are your interests by painting pro-worker Liberalism as the enemy. Thomas Frank is right, but as long as you keep living in your paranoid world where the gub-ment is gonna come take your guns and force you to march in a gay-pride parade, you are going to continue working harder and harder for less and less.
And when you are old, broken and worn out, do you think ADM and Monsanto are going to give a shit? No. It will be a LIBERAL safety net like Medicare that will do it’s best to make your last days a little better. Not perfect, sure. But if it weren’t there, what would take it’s place? Private medical insurance?
December 19th, 2008 at 10:22 PMUsing
LC Subotai Bahadur @:
Those Senate numbers are post-secession numbers. South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas had already seceded by that time.
I’m not sure at what point the official tally of 31-15-3 started; Wikipedia cites the same numbers, but at the very beginning of this session Texas was still in (it seceded in February), and there was only one Unionist - Anthony Kennedy (MD). The Unionist Party was invented specifically as an anti-secessionist party; it would not have been an anti-Southern party since its constituencies were in the South.
What I did fail to factor in are the few non-Southern Dems - two from California, one each from Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oregon.
It was in Congress where the three-fifths compromise artificially boosted Southern representation. The slaveholders didn’t figure out that they could boost their numbers even further by freeing the slaves - five-fifths is bigger then three-fifths, after all. But autocrats don’t trust people enough to allow them democratic participation if they can avoid it. Eventually that arrangement didn’t last, so they had to resort to petty political bribery, which to this day (owing a great debt to LBJ’s Great Society) remains vastly successful.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:22 PMUsing
Jaybear, Caveman, Bigdogg, Hephaestus,
Don’t be upset by our newest trollish visitor. Even the so-called Blue States have plenty of red-necked men, without whom, all those complicated splodey thingies won’t work. He and his, probably wouldn’t know which part of a rifle to point at us. Look more clasely at his name. He’s not Thor’s Hammer, he’s just a Thor Shammer. Wouldn’t be surprised if his friends do clog dancing in their spare time. :em01:
December 19th, 2008 at 10:24 PMUsing
Eyas @:
Well-reasoned and well-argued.
You know what this all comes down to? Just as in 1861, this is a Union, and we need each other. We are like a dysfunctional family, don’t you think?
It’s like that one Star Trek episode, where the Kirk and Co. are set up to fight the Klingons in some sort of perpetual battle. The only one who benefits is some spectral alien, who thrives on the hatred and anger.
Yes, Conservatives are pissed that Liberals have the majorities in BOTH houses and the White House. In truth, I think it doesn’t serve the country very well, either. I like Madison’s idea of checks and balances, and with one party controlling everything, it puts that principle in jeopardy.
But Bush and the the Republican legislature just fucked things up so badly! I’m not blaming Conservatives. It could just as easily (well, almost) have been a Dem in power. The first thing ANY executive has to be able to do us simply run the company. Ideology doesn’t have much to do with paying your vendors on time or making sure the plant has all the parts it needs.
I think we are all going to be okay with the new administration. Obama, for all his faults, is a smart man. And you have to admit, he is putting intelligent, dedicated people into cabinet positions. Give him a chance. I promise he WILL NOT force anyone to march in a gay pride parade (OR take away your guns!).
December 19th, 2008 at 10:34 PMUsing
LC Rurik @:
Touché, Rurik. But no clogs here … just a tu-tu.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:37 PMUsing
You so called liberals have seen to it, allied with corrupt business interests, that we are flooded with illegal immigrants to work our land. You need the votes, in exchange for welfare. Otherwise you remain held in contempt. As for Monsanto…..you think we like those people? You really don’t know jack shit about us, do you? It was congress making those laws, not farmers. Corporate lawyers suing farmers for refusing to pay Monsanto a settlement because some seeds blow in from a neighboring farm. This made possible by the federal government stooges bought off by Monsanto, Du Pont, Union Carbide, Cargill, and a host of others. Progressives huh? Just like those democrat slave holders. One other thing, you mention military weapons. Now I’ll let you in on a little secret. Not two blocks from my house is a Veterans Memorial, built by our town, financed by our people, all five thousand of us, to honor the Veterans in this town, both living and dead. Built at a Grade School. We don’t spit on our vets, we are proud of them. And another thought, just how in the fuck do you propose enforcing any mandates you pass? Pass a law? :em01: I’ve got a safe full of guns and ammo here. Most folks here do own guns, and actually use them too. What a concept, huh? I’m not worried about you taking my guns, that thought makes me laugh. We do not fear you. As for medicare…there won’t be any. Our country is bankrupt. Another failed legacy of Lyndon Johnsons Great Society. Your biggest mistake is mistaking independence for ignorance, an Achilles tendon of enormous magnitude. Rural folk are versatile, we have to be. As for our health? Yes, I’m fifty-six, and yeah, my joints hurt often. But we do get exerciese, often a lot of it, and tend overall to be healthier and more resistant to sickness. I’ve also been told by my doctor I have the physique of a man half my age.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:44 PMUsing
Well, shit. Either I go through quoting a whole LOT of people, or I boil it down. Those of you who are Rotts, but live in the North, ARE NOT FUCKING YANKEES! Hell, I was thirteen years old before I learned damn and yankee were 2 separate words. YANKEES are the fascist totalitarians such as the one quoted to start this article. As with any society living under the fail such as them, it’s not their fault! Oh NO! If the people who are actually making shit work that aren’t doing it their way would simply apply their fail to it, it would work even better, don’t you know!
December 19th, 2008 at 10:52 PMThere ARE conservative in the North that realize the fuck-up of the cities. There are “Confederate Yankees”, to be sure. Goddamnit ya’ll, get rid of those carpet-baggers and all will be well. The Conservatives, even up North, see the socialist failure. And those who fail in the north can’t STAND to see just exactly HOW fucked up their dream really is.
You’ve got THESE yankees acting just like Kim Jong (mentally) Il. “If we just take over the South with our policies, it will be better for them and we will succeed after all.” Not, apparently, realizing it’s their very policies that cause the failure, and would do so in any successful country they infest.
Using
ThorsHammer sez:
oh no worries there, we’re going to follow your example and give him just as much of a chance as you gave George Bush.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:58 PMUsing
And if pinging isn’t allowed, how in the hell am I supposed to link back?
December 19th, 2008 at 11:02 PMUsing
AH, How about this?
December 19th, 2008 at 11:04 PMUsing
ThorsHammer @101:
‘Course, given the areas you’d be laying claim to, you’d have to contract to us (at a fairly steep price) to get men who could use ‘em…
… without turning themselves inside-out with deep, meaningful introspective guilt over the dichotomy with their own morally-superior pacifism, of course (funny what a luxury that turns out to be, once you’ve cut yourselves off from the people who defend it)
Talk about your wars-of-attrition - any invading force would only have to ride it out until all of the conscientious-objecting and wilt-spined suicides had run their course.
…by then, all you’d have left would be the Prop-8 protesters, and let’s face it, them ‘boys’ are easily distracted.
Hmeh.
- MuscleDaddy
December 19th, 2008 at 11:07 PMUsing
LC HJ Caveman82952 @:
Why do you blame Liberalism for the likes of Monsanto and their corrupt legislative allies? I think we can all agree that such evils as gene patents on seeds are detrimental to everyone - from rural america to farmers in developing countries trying to feed their families. I’m not sure of the numbers, but the native varieties of rice have severely declined since Third World farmers have (almost been) forced to buy their seed from corporations.
Me, I’m one Liberal who believes in the 2nd Amendment. Not that I’m particularly fond of guns, but it IS part of that lovely little document, the US Constitution. We start chipping around its edges, and where do we stop? At the 1st Amendment? The 5th? Or how about the 14th (oh, wait, Darth Cheney has already been working on THAT one!).
And as far as illegals go, remember that Cesar Chavez and the UFW vocally opposed illegal immigration, knowing that illegals would be used by corporate agribusinesses to undermine fair wages for legal workers, whether they were born in Mexico or the US.
Now if US workers worked harder to help the nascent labor movement in Mexico and Central America, and if the US government included basic wage and environmental conditions in our trade deals, then maybe poor workers from other countries wouldn’t feel forced to come here to earn a living wage. But neither Bush nor Clinton (the rapist) thought that important.
I think all the animosity between so-called Conservatives and Liberals is mostly smoke and mirrors, created by the true elites - the trans-national corps that feed on all of us.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:16 PMUsing
Is this regard I agree…to a point. All of us lead a more comfortable life when we co-operate. Hewever, it would appear, based on actions observed, that it is only asked for when the left is in power. Their behavior during the Bush presidency has been deplorable, if not a national embarrassment. A matter of not telling me, but showing me. That has not happened. But we in the sticks will not be treated as second class, ignorant louts, our beliefs ridiculed, our labors taken as low brow labor. A farmer has to know a dozen trades. Most of the hyper educated people I know are utterly useless save for lecturing and collecting grants. The nineteenth century was brutal in many ways, yet in that time America matured from her infancy, enduring the bloodiest war in her history, to becoming the second most powerful nation on Earth. Yes, the unions hoped to prevent abuses…but looked what happened to them? Ending up just as corrupt as the businesses they fought. It is a free spirit. Funny thing about that, when I attend the Civil War reenactments here, I always head for the Stars and Bars. And I was born in LA. I lived in Kentucky for a few years, more Southern than anything else. I learned to admire and love the South, her peoples, traditions, booze and food. Spent a lot of time in Nashville with friends. Not to mention the best bass fishing I have ever seen. The South could easily be energy independent, from the oil off her coast, to the windfarms in Texas, to the coal available. There are a lot of natural gas deposits here in the Central Valley, not to mention wind. The Central Valley here controls the water flows, for it comes from the Sierra Nevada, not the coast, flowing though the valley. LA and SF would be hard pressed indeed if not for us here. Watching them desalinate enough drinking water for thirty million people would prove interesting to watch, for rainfall is not extreme for the most part. Yes, it is far easier to cooperate, but only as equals, respecting the beliefs and traditions of the other.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:18 PMUsing
ThorsHammer @:
I don’t have to admit any such a damned thing.
He’s installing either a bunch of Clintonista retread crooks and incompetents or more limp dicked, liberal fuckups like himself; all with liberty, defense, economy and job killing agendas. Wise up asshat… these people don’t have even your best interests at heart. They are either a) cynical, self serving, power mad tyrants, or b) rabid, elitist, socialist ideologues for whom tyranny is the natural by product of and only conceivable means to their ends.
Persist in your folly and you will be aiding in your own subjugation to tyranny.
Teh Guy has only The Clue imparted to him by his first national security briefings… whereupon he shut his fuckin’ pie hole, took on an ashen hue and developed a facial tic.
Seems like the Mighty Thor would have a hammer made of something weightier than styrofoam.
ThorsNerfHammer :em41: :em01: :em99:
December 19th, 2008 at 11:33 PMUsing
An afterthought…yes I remember that Trek. Only a fool fights in a burning house.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:36 PMI revere our Constitution, these proposals for a Constitutional Convention disturb me greatly. Fortunately our Founding Fathers were wise, it is a most difficult procedure to initiate, even more difficult to pass. The motley collection we have in DC now, all parties…….they would gut the bill of Rights, and I believe in doing so, would initiate the second Civil War. Look at gun sales. For all would lose, from liberals demanding to have amendment one to conservatives demanding the right to defend their families and friends. Oddly enough, it could unite us all. A most interesting conjecture, the multi-national interests and their role in all this. Banks, for one. We are all being taken to the cleaners as it is. I spend a great deal of time researching such matters, and what I see disturbs me greatly. As to what will happen now, with power changing? I’m not a great believer in human benevolence. I could live quite nicely for three months without ever leaving my house. And I could defend it, too. I hope and pray I do not have too……..
Using
I have a tendency to take things too seriously, but boy, I read these threads and greatly regret that I cannot keep guns around the house. “safe list” or not–posts from certain professional historians rather alarm me. Well, it may torment my poor spouse, but I’m going to at least learn to shoot whether he approves or not!
December 19th, 2008 at 11:47 PMUsing
LC Rurik @:Thanks for the encouragement, but what Thor does not realize is that everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts. Before the name calling started with Thor’s entrance into the discussion, my premise was and still remains, that the major metropolitan areas, North, South, East,and West, are extremely vulnerable to the kind of civil unrest that usually follows a breakdown of normal order. For example, New Orleans post Katrina, Los Angeles post Rodney King, Philladelphia post any Halloween or bowl championship, Seattle during the world bank meeting, Saint Paul during the Republican convention, Detroit, Chicago, Houston, ad infinitum. One can not escape the facts that the centers of liberal thought are also powder kegs that tend to ignite routinely and horrifically. Where this “my dad is tougher than your dad” tirade came from, heaven only knows. It was not introduced into any discussion by me, but I ascribe it simply to Trollish bombast and count it of little value. The house of cards that is liberalism can not stand without the willing participation of the vast majority of the populace. My point is that by getting a few blocks away from the metropolitan areas, the nation becomes more united around conservative values that are bedrock solid no matter which geographical region of the country you chose to examine. :em04:
December 19th, 2008 at 11:49 PMUsing
Good for you, psychochick. You don’t have to own one, that being your choice. But if the chips were down you would know how to use one. One must practice a great deal of forthright honesty making a decision like that. It is also a responsibility, as well as a right. :em04:
December 19th, 2008 at 11:59 PMAnd it is good to see you. You may like shooting. You can rent them, you know.
Using
LC MuscleDaddy, Имперский Заключительный Ответ @:
December 20th, 2008 at 12:04 AM“Tallulah” as in “Bankhead.” Now there was a Southern belle!
Using
Hephaestus. I believe you are dead on target. The underbelly of humanity would make a brutal appearance. And only force of arms would stop them. Many people would be sitting ducks. It would scare the shit out of me being trapped in such a fashion. Which is why I live where I do, no doubt expecting a swarm of refugees fleeing the cities. Not that I would blame them.
December 20th, 2008 at 12:07 AMUsing
Okay, I hope we can all agree that the whole secessionist argument is not realistic and not healthy. We are all Americans, and the vast majority of us believe in what this country stands for - freedom of speech; freedom of thought; freedom of association; rule of law, not men; respect for each other and respect for the common good (including not only the public square, but our shared water, air, and natural resources); and equal opportunity based on merit, not race, gender, class or birthright.
As Lincoln said, “A house divided against itself cannot stand,” and like it or not, we all share the same house.
I argue that so much of what we hold dear from the 20th century was fought for with the blood of Liberals (not necessarily Democratic … yes, I know, Lincoln was a Republican):
- All the labor strikers who’s heads were cracked by cops in the early 20th century to fight for good wages and thus to build the working middle class
- the soldiers in the Lincoln Brigade who fought fascism in Europe in the 1930’s, long before the US entered the war against the Axis. (Yes, many of these soldiers were American Communists and naively idealistic, but this was in the mid-30’s, long before the truth of Stalin’s evil came to light).
- All the protesters, both Northern and Southern, who endured the firehoses, truncheons, and lynchings to defeat Jim Crow
- the women and men who were fired, arrested and ridiculed fighting for women’s rights
- the queer and straight who were arrested, beaten, raped and murdered fighting for gay rights
Today, we accept these rights as the norm, but at the time, the people who fought for them were considered Radicals, leftists and anti-American.
Don’t dismiss Liberalism. It has a long history (Enlightenment, anyone?), and despite it’s flaws, the goal of Liberalism is freedom, fairness, equal rights and equal opportunity. It’s NOT Marxism. It’s NOT Totalitarianism. Liberalism flows from the likes of Jefferson, Voltaire and Rousseau. NOT Marx/Engels (which IGNORED individual freedom in favor of class).
Ironically, I think A LOT of so-called Conservatives are really Liberals. But they have somehow convinced themselves that “Liberals” are the enemy. We aren’t. And we aren’t pacifists or isolationists.
So many on this site seem to think that we aren’t willing to fight. We are. We will fight for your rights. We will fight for your freedom. And we will fight to preserve our SHARED air, water, and natural resources.
December 20th, 2008 at 2:44 AMUsing
Negative.
I am convinced that, should there be a National Divorce, we knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing conservatives would thrive. The other side would simply corkscrew itself into the ground.
Why? because through it all, WE are fundamentally correct in our understanding of limited, self government, personal liberty and personal responsibility.
In short, we do not need you.
Good Riddance.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:06 AMUsing
ThorsHammer sez:
I don’t know where you live ThorsHammer, but when you go to the grocery store, or put gasoline in your car, you’d best get on your knees and THANK GOD for the people who live most of these states. THEY are the ones who feed you miserable liberals.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:34 AMUsing
LC HJ Caveman82952 sez:
The Dakotas, Nebraska, and Kansas, iirc, also provide the majority of the corn used for the ethanol that is put into the whiny liberals’ cars (those who aren’t wealthy to drive Priuses). They also provide a good bit of the wheat that goes into EVERYTHING, and a substantial amount of soybeans and other grains.
You got that right about not caring for the feds, and for managing quite well on our own. The people on the prairies were surviving LONG before liberals got to the left coast.
I don’t know for sure, but I suspect a majority of them are armed, as well.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:41 AMUsing
ThorsHammer sez:
Well (unless youhavent noticed) the house is “divided” and the cause of the division at this point is almost moot. What is ..IS and the division is so sharp and so vitriolic that “compromise” has left the building. You see in this scenario, they house that couldnt ’stand”, the one that would fail, is the house of the urban liberal. The Red State House could very easily stand on its own. The liberal bastions “need” the conservative states more that vice a versa.
ThorsHammer sez:
Ah the condescending portion of the arguement… “enlightment” as if Liberals have a lock of enlightenment.. besides “enlightenment’ is in the eye of the beholder. I agree many “conservatives” do espouse what were formally “liberal” held ideals, but at the same time many liberals are in fact now espousing Marxist style ideals. As one group is decidely more “centrist” the other group has to move farther away inorder to maintain its self identity. How else can you explain the utter nonsense occuring in California regarding PROP 8? The people HAVE spoken. And just as conservatives are required to tolerate the Obama selection… California should (in the interest of fairness) be required to tolerate the vote on PROP *. But what is happening NOW? Go to COURT to bypass the vote. And it isnt like the validity of a candidate is involved either, it is a legal ploy to bypass the rule of the PEOPLE.
Ultimately … I (nor my peers) need the URBAN areas, and I damn sure dont need a group of people that beleive that by the virtue of thier choice of home location they are any more intelligent or capable of deep philosophical thoughts of enlightenment.
I’ll say it again….. the RED STATES dont “need” the Blue State…. it is the Blue States that need the RED States. “A house divided cant stand” …. no your house couldnt stand… my house would be just fine.
December 20th, 2008 at 11:11 AMUsing
LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion @:It is no coincidence that where ever you look in this great nation and see abject poverty, crime that is systemic and basically out of control, education systems that are complete failures, high welfare rates, high abortion rates, high rates of teen pregnancy, high drug usage, poor infrastructure, high taxes, high unemployment, corrupt government, etc., you will find liberal government in control. ENLIGHTED! I think not, sir. Even a hog tries to tunnel out of a pen for the freedom of the forest. Granted, the conservative enclaves have poor people, but it is never grinding poverty on a grande scale and generally is a self-inflicted wound. Conservatives live life differently, with responsibility shouldered by the individual and rewards earned by the sweat and talent one is willing to expend. This old canard of freedom fighters securing liberty for the oppressed simply will not fly in light of the facts. Our immigration mess and unsecured borders are a perfect example of liberals fighting to secure “rights” for those who do not deserve them. It is simply another liberal agenda to advance the liberal cause. FREEDOM! My ass. It is not freedom to be sold into economic salvery so you will vote for your liberal overlords. That is quintesential liberalism without the mask. My freedoms were secured by my father, uncles, aunts and grandparents in battlegrounds foreign and domestic. I have done the same for those who will follow me. I did it because that is the cost too and responsibility of free people. Those unwilling to shoulder their own load of responsibilities to fight for their own freedom have no right to expect a portion of mine.
December 20th, 2008 at 12:29 PMUsing
ThorsHammer sez:
That would be “classical liberalism”, which is still called “liberalism” in Europe, which is why Europeans sometimes get confused when we Right Wing Death Beasts sneer at our liberals since, to them, “liberals” mean “conservatives.” Heck, I’m a “classical liberal.”
Today’s American liberalism, however, has absolutely nothing to do with classical liberalism. Today’s American liberalism is all about the government telling us how to run our lives “for the common good”, government controlling, if not outright taking over industry, government taxing the everloving shit out of us to pay for an ever-growing number of entitlements doled out to whomever the government decides deserves our money more than we do etc. etc. etc. In other word, today’s American liberalism is all about control, it’s all about “everything inside the state, nothing outside the state”, it’s all about “common good before personal good” (or, as it goes in the original language of the people that American liberals learned from, “Gemeinnutz vor Eigennutz”).
It’s strange why we, myself included, keep calling the proponents of the above “liberals” when there already is a word that perfectly describes that sort of worldview and ideology: Fascism.
But there you have it. Time to clean up the language because it’s getting to be confusing.
December 20th, 2008 at 12:47 PMUsing
And why did the truth about Stalin fail to come to light? There were Westerners present in the Soviet Union from the early 1920s. There were numerous refugees who had escaped. A few of them were even disillusioned ex-communists. At the nexus of the 1920s-30s There were the first big show trials - Shakhty and Promparty. During Collectivization and the Ukrainian Famine, Walter Duranty was there and saw the truth - but kept silent. He later admitted that he had suppressed the news. Numerous other Western reporters also saw and held their tongues. John Reed could have warned. Armand Hammer, and many others could have warned. Malcolm Muggeridge told the truth, but was ignored. Eugene Lyons tried to warn. And so did a few others. It was because Pure-hearted idealistic liberals denounced as fascists anyone who tried to warn us. The truth ws there but Liberals practiced willful blindness. And even afterward, they tried to cover over any of the ugly truth that might emerge into the light. Liberals, and yes, specifically including many (though not all) Unions, jumped eagerly into the communst bed, and never really got out. And in the 1970s, after a brief show of being independent marxists, the New left crept quietly, shamefully, back to the fold.
As for the 3300 soldiers of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, about 80% of them were CPUSA members, and most of the rest fellow travelers. Some of them served as commissars and executed other americans suspected of disloyalty to the cause. “Naive idealist” is a bullshit term which could just as easily be applied to the “misguided” members of the Deutsches-Amerika Bund - but never is.
During the 1930s the slogan was “Communism is Twentieth Century Americanism”. and “Communists are just liberals in a hurry.” By implication, that means that “Liberalism is just patient Communism.”
December 20th, 2008 at 3:38 PMUsing
In the squabble over the term “liberal,” someone mentioned the Enlightenment. Just as one should not invoke “liberalism” without some specificity, one should not bring up the Enlightenment without specifying which of its factions one is talking about. It was a time of philosophers run wild, and not all of them were on board with individual liberty. The Committee of Public Safety was a product of the Enlightenment, after all.
One issue I know something about is the division over the treatment of religion. There was a strong current within the French Enlightenment (of which the more tolerant Voltaire was not a part) that went overboard with its bitterness with church oppression in that nation. It wanted to do more then to divest religious institutions of political power; it wanted to wipe out religion entirely. My source is Will Durant, who somehow managed to report this phenomenon without noting in his conclusions that the French Enlightenment had some very bad seeds.
The eradicationalist faction (my term, concocted on the fly) could not conceive peaceful coexistence between rival Christian denominations - something that was already happening on the other side of the Channel. This probably owes its greatest debt not to Rutherford and Locke but to the Church of England, for the very act of allowing the Dissenting faiths to even exist. Religious tolerance at the time was also more prevalent in the more cosmopolitan shipping centers of Northern Europe where multiple religious and ethnic factions lived in relative peace.
December 20th, 2008 at 4:00 PMUsing
#129 ThorsHammer
While the Emperor has dealt with the second part of your statement, I will try to deal with the first.
It comes down to the fact that most of us here do not trust that you are telling the truth about what you believe. Each of us has to decide whether we believe that the mis-statement is deliberate or not, but we do not believe you.
You started your thread of comments with agreeing that from your Leftist point of view separation would be an advantage. When we agreed with you that we would welcome the separation and thrive, all of a sudden we became inseparable brothers. When there is a sudden reversal, it raises suspicions.
Then you began citing all the good things that Liberals have done, claiming credit today. It is noteworthy that the good things you claim all date from 30-40+ years ago. We have experience, sometimes bitter personal experience with what “Liberalism” and the Left have actually done since that time. It is a history of contempt, arrogance, corruption, circumscribing individual liberty to benefit state power, threats, lies, physical violence [I've documented that before in other threads], and yes hostility to religious faith and to the Second Amendment.
Although the Democratic Party harks back to the days of Camelot in its propaganda, in its current role as the vanguard and public face of groups even farther to the Left; it would not tolerate a John F. Kennedy or Lyndon Johnson today. If what they said and believed were said by another Democrat politician today, they would be purged. The only reason that Joe Lieberman, who is a doctrinaire modern “Liberal” in all but wishing for the defeat of American foreign policy, is not expelled from the Party is because he is needed for control of the Senate. The modern Democratic Party is closer to Fidel Castro than to John Kennedy.
When the words are in conflict with actual experience, go with the experience. To be honest, for those of us who were following foreign affairs in the 1960’s-1980’s, this sudden wave of patriotism from the Left is reminiscent of something that Misha and Natasha well understand. I reference “Department D” of the First Main Directorate [later "Department A" of the Foreign Directorate] of the Komitet po Gosudarstvennoi Bezopaznosti. Its product was called Dezinformatsiya . The tone is very much the same.
Since the election of someone who a) is on record and video as disparaging the Constitution, b) wants the power to re-allocate wealth, c) favors extending government control into every aspect of life, d) is on record as not believing in the Second Amendment right up until it became an issue in the campaign, e) has sided with the most extreme pro-abortion stands [not my issue, but one of import to many], and f) from video record and from screenshots of his own web-site, wants the creation of a non-DOD “Civilian National Defense Force” “as powerful as and as well funded as the US military” [speech in Colorado Springs, CO on July 2, 2008] manned by conscription [As I have noted before, a private army outside the control of the nation's military is a sign of tyranny.]; we have heard his syncophants claiming that he really did not mean what he has said in the past.
This leaves aside [and it is no small matter to leave aside] that he may not be legally or constitutionally eligible to be president. And that he refuses to take the simple step of paying $10.00 and producing a certified copy of the vault document of his birth certificate, specifically box 7c which shows “county and state or foreign country of birth”. This is after his campaign demanded and got the same data from his opponent in the election.
Since the moment of the election, we have seen a host of new names online. These commenters have insisted the same thing as Thor’s Hammer; that all of a sudden the past has to be forgotten, because we have to rally around this new government of the Left. The ones who spent the last decades insulting and attacking our humanity, our faith, and any part of the Constitution that impedes their personal power suddenly claim to be our dearest brothers and sisters. At best, I suspect it is an organized attempt to do as they frequently do in Congress. The Democrats try to get enough Republicans on board for an issue so that they can blame the results on the Republicans. Like when the Auto Bailout raid on the Treasury died in Congress; the Democrats had enough votes to pass it themselves, but the Republicans would not give them cover.
At worst, it may be an organized effort to convince us to be good little Stakhanovites, until the new regime can take control of the organs of state compulsion.
I, for one, am not buying it.
The Left now controls all branches of government. They are responsible for anything that happens from now on. Those of us who are not of the Left have no responsibility to support what we view as attacks on Liberty and the Constitution. And if, as you say, the house cannot stand divided; it is better that it fall than stand as a tyranny. For it possibly can be rebuilt, and freedom given another chance. As for the matter of whether either the Red states and Blue cities can live without the other; the various claims and boasts made on both sides are of limited import at this point. Regardless of what we say now, the matter will be demonstrated in fact, rather than boast; probably fairly soon.
To quote the master of my namesake:
Only the Great Blue Sky Tengri Nor knows the result.
LC Subotai Bahadur
December 20th, 2008 at 4:47 PMUsing
December 20th, 2008 at 5:24 PM
Using
ThorsHammer sez:
About time you realized that, that’s a a fine statement….said by one of my heroes, paraphrasing a quote from Jesus Christ. What I find interesting about your sudden epiphany about a divided house is that you realize it now:
Now that you have your empty suit messiah on his way to the White House
Now that you have all branches of government under demoRat control
Now that you have a compliant fifth column press willing to lie and protect you in order to firm up your power.
Now that your “elected” public officials are insulated from all charges of corruption and misdeeds.
Funny that I didn’t hear your clarion calls for unity in 2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008….I must not have been listening, or couldn’t hear you while I robotically said the Pledge of Allegiance like a good little reich winger. Or it might have been that you and your pals in Code Pink and MoveOn and the myriad of other leftist fanatics and hate mongers were more interested in tearing this nation apart…..tearing it apart in a prolonged fit of irrational juvenile red-eyed hatred.
but now you want to get along…..for the good of the country
We on the right side of the spectrum endured your insults, your protests, your divisiveness, your unwillingness to even GIVE this president a chance, your condescension and bigotry for eight years…..FULL TIME……and we took it. We were lied about, our positions and reputations were smeared and distorted, and every counter argument was answered with accusations of racism or homophobia or sexism or patriotic zealotry.
and now you want us to unite with you……for the good of the country.
We on the right have seen you and your peers call our troops the vilest of names, accusing them of torture while their captive brothers have been beheaded and tortured. You accuse them of killing innocent civilians, and rampaging over “brown people”, and being tools of Imperialistic Amerika, and of being the bottom of the barrel in terms of education and skills. You tell lies about supporting the troops but not the mission. You have insisted that disrespecting this President and protesting this war are patriotic. You corrupt the names of our honored dead by using them in your childish irrational protests. You have dressed up as military clergy and soldiers and appeared at military families doors to tell them that their loved ones have died….all as a form of protest. You have openly advocated for our defeat in this war.
but now we need to look beyond all that……for the good of the country
Well I apologize, but I can’t do any of that. You and your peers have proven yourselves many times to be the most indecent, inhuman, unpatriotic, bigoted, immature, frothing, dishonest, untrustworthy, traitorous, and irrational creatures that I have ever had the displeasure to see or hear. You and your diaper clad leftist lunatic friends are not my countrymen, you are not Americans nor are you patriots…..and no I don’t want to unite with you, I find that thought disgusting and degrading…..just like I find your behavior to this country and us true Americans.
reap what you sow traitor…..it’s our turn now, and we’re playing by the rules you set up.
December 20th, 2008 at 5:37 PMUsing
jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @:
Jay…. that was a thing of fucking A beauty! Well written, Well Done.
+1000 SIR!
DOG Salutes You :em04: :em04: :em04: :em04: :em04:
December 20th, 2008 at 6:12 PMUsing
Down here where snow bird season is about to open up, I can only Quote a wise man who said: “Thank God for the sand gnats (mosquitoes, yellow flies, black flies, ticks, fleas and everyother biting critter we enjoy down here) otherwise we would be up to our asses in yankees.”
December 20th, 2008 at 6:15 PMUsing
Boy, Jaybear, way to lump everybody from moderate to lunatic left under the same rubric. Has ThorsHammer really seemed like the kind of horrible person that would tell loved ones that their soldier has died? Not to me.
DJ volunteers at a Veteran’s Hospital; I’m a Soldier’s Angel (and no, I don’t talk about politics in my letters, other than to say I debate). You shouldn’t treat everybody to your left like they are some sort of viper.
December 20th, 2008 at 6:47 PMUsing
jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @:
Excellent sir! :em04: :em69:
December 20th, 2008 at 6:53 PMUsing
psychochick, LC
Hey! Nice to hear from you again!!! How have you been, seems like an eternity since I read one of your post!!!
Nicely said by the way…
December 20th, 2008 at 6:54 PMUsing
Thanks! Finally doing well, but there’s been lots going on with my health. I don’t want to hijack the thread. I’ve thought about trying to EM you through Misha, but people’s SPAM filters consume my messages. If you want, EM me at tetrodotoxin2 at yahoo. I’ll fill you in.
December 20th, 2008 at 7:01 PMUsing
psychochick, LC sez:
hurts doesn’t it…….
that was the whole point PC. For eight years I’ve been called a nazi and worse by friends and colleagues of mine who I see and work with every goddamned day…..all because I’m on the right side of their political spectrum and support Pres. Bush. I’ve smiled and turned the other cheek, and still call them friends and colleagues…but I’ve been getting the same plea from them since the election “ohhhh, it’s time to heal and come together now”…….yeah right, they’ve run rampant for 8 years not giving a damn WHO they offend and now they want to make nice.
If you took that personally, then welcome to the club…..blanket insults and stereotypes do that….they’re offensive and they’re hurtful. Please tell that to your leftie friends who have slung that shit at me and others for eight years….I’m just giving them a taste of the medicine they prescribed.
December 20th, 2008 at 7:40 PMUsing
Jaybear,
:em04: to BOTH posts, my friend. Wow.
December 20th, 2008 at 7:57 PMUsing
Jaybear,
December 20th, 2008 at 8:10 PMWhen the peace-cooing gets a bit too slimy, just give ‘em a little possum smile: “Now, why would anybody think there’d be need of any kind of a settlin’ up? Guilty conscience there?,, comrad?”
Using
Spare me the “we come in degree’s” bullshit. Birds of a feather flock together. You run with a pack of dogs and you get called a cur… You make your choices and you live with them. You chose a label and thats what you’re called.
Liberals of whatever flavor present a threat to the United States as envisioned and sacrificed for by our founding fathers. They are either hard corp believers or misguided fools, either way the threat is the same. Just like the haji’s they have proven time and time and time again thier true colors, and as such deserve no quarter. You are either part of the problem or your part of the solution.. there is no in between.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:22 PMUsing
Thank You, Jaybear. Finely executed, expressing my sentiments exactly. I have wearied of having to remain silent in order to get along, or even to keep my job. Grit my teeth and smile. No longer…..now I smile and wait. It is long past time to return the favor to the left, mercilessly hammering them at every opportunity. I, for one, have joined a long list of millions of people either initiating or enchancing their personal means of self-defense. I have to wonder, morbidly so, does the left pay attention to that? For once the tripwire is broken……..no military on Earth could stand up to an armed populace. Assuming they would even wish to fire on American citizens in the first place. I would expect mass desertions. And the military has absolutely no use for the left, nor do most cops I know. As for the snitches, Obamas alleged civilian force. I could relate some of the anonymous physical unpleasantries visited upon such types. Supporting that, I would see, hear and know nothing. Traitors deserve only the very best……… I do suspect there will be millions of silent Americans, hating what they see going on, contemptuous of their government, a building hatred towards what the far left has done. Those in the middle I pity, both ideologically and physically. So I move silently when I make my moves, well placed wrenches in gears, quietly using both my signature and name to what affect I can.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:27 PMIt is time for childhoods end………..we may unite as a people, but on our terms this time. Or the whole shooting match can come down………I was not joking, perferring to die in my world than live in theirs. I somehow suspect some young healthy thug facing my .357 or .45 may entertain second thoughts, perhaps his last thoughts…….and I will have absolutely no difficulty dropping the hammer. I’ll sleep just fine at night.
Well done, my friend…well done.
Using
Terrible Troy,
Perhaps you should re-read Misha’s post on “classical liberals.” I’ve been called a “moderate” and a “classical liberal” here, but that does put me to the left of many here. If you are incapable of distinguishing between moderates and ANSWER members, I wouldn’t get too sanctimonious if I were you.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:58 PMUsing
psychochick, LC @
Sanctimonious? You mean like your last post? Provide me with a definition cause I’m a bit cloudy on my “big” words today.
I read the Emporers post the first time and absorbed it just fine. The Jist of it was that the label “liberal” has been perverted from its original meaning adn that now its adherents (that define themselves as “liberals”) are actually socialists that refuse to recognize (or maybe they do and they’re to fucking cowardly) what they really are. So be that as it may, and given the fact that I DID read the post in question. Please feel free to keep your “sanctimonium” to yourself. I say and write exactly what I mean, how I mean it. If you identify yourself as a “liberal” you are mislableing yourself. You are either a conservative in denial or a socialist in denial. Either way the word “liberal” might as well not exist anymore.
December 20th, 2008 at 9:18 PMUsing
That was too snarky. I’ll apologize.
December 20th, 2008 at 9:19 PMUsing
On another note.. I am presently, with grim satisfaction if not outright sadistic glee, watching the liberals fight amongst themselves. I have been waiting for that, beginning with Obamas staff, now for his invocation. I just can’t wait until he takes office….my, the tantrums we will see thrown once reality sets in and many realize they have been played for suckers. And they can’t even blame us this time, much to their petulant regret. Reminding me, I should stock up on popcorn, sodas and candy bars……… :em01:
December 20th, 2008 at 9:37 PMThe ten elections could prove most interesting indeed, assuming we make it that far.
Using
Crap. Take a nap and miss the party. After reading down through
from # 133 on, there isn’t a thing I can add. It’s all been said.
Sort of like arriving late to a party, only to find the fun’s
over, and the booze and beer all gone.
Well done, Rotties, well done. :em69:
Dav in LA sez:
Meheh. Sounds like home. Mosquitos, black flies, midges, ticks, fleas,
Red ants, carpenter ants, piss ants, yellow jackets, bald face hornets,
blue and red mud wasps, brown, red and black/yellow paper wasps, bumble
bees, sweat bees,oat lice and copperheads.
‘Aint livin’ in the country fun? No fire ants up here, though. There
December 20th, 2008 at 11:14 PMis a way to have fun with ants, though. It’s called black powder.heh heh heh.
I’ll leave it to your imagination how to apply the concept. The application
is probably unsuitable any where even close to town. BATFE might frown.
Seems they break out all in hives ’bout a good ‘ol boy just have’n’ some fun.
If it were’nt for lack of funds, you’d have to put up with this here damn(confederate)yankee, too. :em93:
Using
I’m late coming here so I haven’t read all 150 posts, but that article was quit a piece of socialistic drivel. The hell with the REPUBLIC, we need to be a socialist state, so that the idiots that can’t get there ducks in a row don’t have to suffer their failures…we all can share the misery with them.
When the South goes for succession, save me a couple acres. When you clear out Austin and other liberal bastions down there, there should be room for a misplaced (by birth) Texan who wants to come home.
PC
Nice to see you back.
December 20th, 2008 at 11:32 PMUsing
72.
Are we sure about that? Dunno your exact location, but I’m at 47º 27′N, & I see that Maine’s northernmost extent is at 47º 28′. Of course anyone in western Canada or Alaska has us beat.
And yes, this is home–& I’ve lived here virtually my whole life–but, myself, I’ve been open for decades to moving. Haven’t proved clever enough to pull it off, though…
December 21st, 2008 at 12:33 AMUsing
psychochick, LC @:
And I accept and apologize in return, I have been angry all day at a situation that was not your doing, and you were an outlet. I do appreciate your inputs, and frankly I cant help but respect a person who’s “nom de’ guerre” is psychochick.
You stay safe, have a great Christmas, and I wish you happiness, health, and sucess for the upcoming year. :em03:
December 21st, 2008 at 12:51 AMUsing
Emperor Misha, I’d like to change my name to “Anniee” - is this something you do, or do I have to figure it out?
THORSHAMMER - “A House divided against itself can not stand”??? Unlike the last response to that, I merely laugh my ass off and spit in your face. DEAL with it. You bet your ass we’re divided against you (and by we I do not include anyone here except who wish to be included; I include anyone who has been awake for the last 8 years and finds your statement to be ridiculous in the EXTREME. You don’t get off THAT easy, f*&^head. Not even close. And keep your faux Christ-references to yourself; no one buys them here. At least no one with more than two neurons firing.
And holy hell, Subotai, while I greatly admire your efforts to undergo explanations to such a troll, well…actually that’s it. I do. He doesn’t deserve it in the slightest but your words serve to energize and mobilize the rest of us who actually HAVE working brains and have heard the lessons of history, and learned them well. You are a credit and an inspiration to people like me. I bow before your superior knowledge.
December 22nd, 2008 at 5:40 AMUsing
LC Subotai Bahadur sez:
This cannot be said more clearly. Once again, Subotai, I’m in awe of your abilities and grateful for your clarity.
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:42 AMUsing
My, my, look how this one’s grown–just about big enough to boot out the door for life on its own.
I’m not gonna trash my “liberal” family members and friends, but I’ve got a 4 year case of ODS that hopefully won’t relapse. I’m gonna enjoy it. That’s my idea of hopey changetude.
Wanna know the difference between classic liberals and leftist scum who’ve hijacked the term “liberal?” Think about Eisenhower/Kennedy/Johnson. That’s it, right there. It’s kind of a continuum, but it’s pretty clearly identifiable. Eisenhower and the feds of the time weren’t conservative, they were classic liberals, but the bureaucracy was trending leftist. It got a little worse under Kennedy, then went full bore, balls to the walls tyrannical socialist under Johnson.
And look what we got for our socialist commitment–an upward spiraling conflict in Viet Nam and arms race with the USSR and Red China, coupled with a downward spiraling commitment to the principles that made either game worth the candle. Add in a healthy dollop of social welfare and federal interference in local matters like education and you’ve got it–modern Amerikan Fascist Liberalism. Expect to see more war, death, poverty, federal tyranny, taxes, and a sinking economy due to Obambi and his gang chasing their tails in search of ever more power camoflaged under an ever-changing “rainbow” of effete, nebulous pseudo-principles and obfuscations, like Johnson.
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. Unfortunately, the rest of us get to watch the train wreck at the same broken switch again, too.
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:10 AMUsing